There has been such a heated discussion about pets when they pass. I am curious, do you believe all animals go to heaven or do you believe in something else?
When our beloved Cocker Spaniel passed away last year, I believe he went to heaven and I also believe he had his own individual soul.
What are your thoughts?
Good gosh! What an interesting question...:
Almost 4 billion yrs of evolution has produced an awful lot of life!
"Heaven'd" sure be packed!
How many of 'em'd be in "hell?" or is "hell" just for his kids: we humans?
This 'god thing'd" have "its" problems keepin' track of it all!
Do ya think this "god thing" might have a buncha angels assigned to a computer room fulla hi tech stuff to keep him up to date?
Dog walkers'd probably be in big demand. 'Course there'd be dead dog walkers in angel form, in heaven...no training needed!
I absolutely believe that animals go to heaven. My third child, a fawn pug named Bullet died six months ago and I know that he is there. Upon his passing my vet sent me the poem which another person noted, "Rainbow bridge." It talks of our pet people meeting with us there. "For just at that instant, their eyes have met, Together again both person and pet." While this poem is not scientific or biblical in any way, our pets are the closest thing to human friendship we have. Therefore, why wouldn't they have the same rest for their souls?
If God already had us in the garden of Eden with all His animals then why wouldn,t all the animals be in heaven with us?
Very astute, in the garden of eden, before man came along, God had all the wildlife present. Why would a loving and merciful God not care about His most innocent creatures, creatures that have never disappointed Him or turned their backs on their creator like humans have from time to time. I believe God can do all so it'll never be crowded.
That's a huge question. The first midnight call I got as a pastor was from a distraught father who wanted to know how to tell his children that the family cat had just died. That was almost 50 years ago and I've had lots of similar questions since. Opinions range all over the map on this one. But, more to the point, on what basis do we adopt one opinion over another. As far as I'm concerned I'd like to know what God has to say about it in his Word.
There is no direct comment on the subject in the Bible. Absent that, we need to deduce an answer from other data found in Scripture. The most relevant would be what Genesis teaches about the distinctiveness of human beings. God had created a wild variety of animal life before he created man, male and female. What was unique HIs creation of human beings is that God consulting himself within the trinity, "Let us make man in our image, after our likness." (Gen.1:26) It goes on to grant the human being authority over the rest of the animals.
I draw two conclusions from this. Animals, while sharing a lot of biological features with human beings, do not have embedded in them the image of God. As an aside here, the Bible asserts the sanctity, not of life in general, but of human life. There's a huge difference. Secondly, human beings are entrusted with their care. God envisioned from the beginning that we would develop a close attachment to animals, particularly with those brought into our own homes. As a pastor I always try to affirm the personal value of our pets, without assuring folks of things God has not revealed.
It would be great to have our Dolly with us in heaven, but frankly, I think I'll be pretty intrigued with everying else God has in store for us. Bottom line? The Scriptures do not assert definitely what happens to our pets when they die, so neither must I. On the other hand, I'm inclined to think that earthly animals would not participate in the resurrection and eternal joys the Lord has in store for his people, created in his image and redeemed by the blood of his Son.
For goodness sakes!
"...Animals, while sharing a lot of biological features with human beings..."
WE ARE ANIMALS! :
Where did you miss that in your education?
Or was your education just "theological?"
Chimps are 99% biological the same as human, imagine one million species which can smile down on earth and upon hell forever, too. It's just God gave Man everything and only wants in return for us to worship him. The Bible is an instruction book on how to be over obedience in order to get to heaven. In order for other so called less intelligent animals to get to heaven they must follow the slave owners instructions. God made man the ruler of all nature here on earth, because animals do not have the gift to read the bible, Except for a few animals that were trained to stumble through a couple of words. Mmmm, you would think Atheist, would be more Christ like.
I wonder if pet animals can be forgiven if they ate their human owner for lunch, because most likely they will be killed for it. God said killing is right when it is for food, I can't make heads or tails out of the true answers. All I know is the Moral of the story is, don't buy a lion for a pet.
OK, qwark, I accept your comments as good nature ribbing! I think you know what I meant in my answer. Of course human beings are animals, but we are much more. That is why you can give me a hard time over my article and I can respond without malice. If you're just an animal, how come your feelings are hurt when someone really insults you. I could go on, but point is made.
Why would you presume I can be insulted?
Pls explain this for me: "Of course human beings are animals, but we are much more."
Seriously, unless that is example of "good natured ribbing," what the heck is much more than animal?
Why do you think my "feelings were hurt?"
What is the point you said you had made?
This whole comment you made is puzzling?
We are much more than animals in that God has embedded his own image in human beings. Even those who deny that there is a God can't help but display that image. It's our abiity to self-consciously communicate with others and exchange ideas and weigh their merit. Do you know an animal that does that? No, I don't think your feelings are hurt or insulted. I was just saying that your abilitiy to have your feelings hurt and be insulted shows that you are much more than an animal. Humans have the ability to articulate and attempt to live by a moral code. And even the most depraved have a moral code. I may disagree with his code, but that he has one makes him more than an animal. Even the abiltiy to deny that we are anything more than animals, reflects the fact that we are far more than animals. Still puzzled?
Still puzzled? Yes! Even more so.....
I'm not an atheist, agnostic, deist, or a believer in supernatural; divinities.
What is this god thing you speak of as if "it" exists?
There is no monotheistic scripture that defines "it" in other than "opinion."
It's puzzling to me that you speak of it as tho you "KNOW" "it."
This also puzzles me. Your words: "Do you know an animal that does that?" Yes! Of course I do! We "animals" do! It puzzles me that you don't know that!
You still haven't answered this for me: "...you are much more than an animal." I am? what am I?
Yes. I am still puzzled!
Your response seems to be just opinion founded upon nothing but opinion.
You seem to me to be a religiously programmed bot that can only offer comments that puzzle my human animal mind that deals in will and reality.
I'm sure you will not be able solve for me the puzzles you present.
Your "programming" has not prepared you for logical response.
Wow Q, we inhabit two different worlds, but that what makes conversations like this interesting. I'm searching for some common ground. Can we agree to discuss the issue with out labeling each other or challenging the others abiitiy to reason? That would be a great starting point.
"Can we agree to discuss the issue with out labeling each other or challenging the others abiitiy to reason?"
Of course we can if you can first answser the questions I've asked in a form other than "opinion."
If you can't do that, what would be the purpose of chatting? Nothing could be gained.
Intellectually, we exist in 2 different worlds as you intimated.
We'd just have to agree to disagree..:
Tell me this. On what grounds do you judge my persuasions to be mere "opinions" programmed into me by the religious establishment or tradition while your own convictions are to be accepted without question? I've read your profile and skimmed some of your hubs. Take a look at mine and you'll know where I'm coming from.
Hey quark. Were you on that show with that really cut blond girl??? You seem familiar in a way. She was hot wasn't she? But hey, I'm not questioning you at all. As a matter of fact, I'm rootin for ya on that evolution thing. Yep, got me this bag, went out to the junk yard, pickup up some small pieces of junk, put em in there. Yep, 4 billion years from now I'm gonna wear a Rolex.
The problem with taking anything written by man as absolute and pure. Our egos intercede and confuse/skew our 'beliefs,' our 'rules,' our 'behaviors,' and our sense of 'right and wrong.' Our desire for power, to control others to suit our imagined needs tends to cause a perversion of interpretation. That man wrote words supposedly spoken or ordained by God is subject to questioning. If one reads most religious texts, one will find many contradictions, many false statements and misleading, self serving edicts which are fed as truth. Life is a miracle; no matter in what physical form that life may take. It is miraculous...and amazing. I doubt "God" would want to see the wanton destruction of his miracle(s) by the hand of his (supposedly) ultimate creation. I have a hard time taking all words written by man - at any time now or historically - as 100% "correct" and without fault, omission (purposely or not) or the writers' own personal 'take.' If people go to Heaven, so do animals...and, as Quark said.. "We ARE animals (my emphasis).
There is not note or statement of the trinity in the Hebrew 'WORD'.
To say such is an exaggeration and only self serving. I'm not saying there is not a trinity, I'm saying there is not statement in the Hebrew 'WORD' that says anything about the trinity by name.
I know from bible scripture there will be animals in heaven and they would have to be spirit as we are and since there are good and bad animals just like people I believe they do go to Heaven. Why not I would have to ask. There will be no mean or scary animal in Heaven, just as people; they will all be friends and a child shall lead them.
I have no time to read all the replies to your question but, I believe, if there IS a Heaven where human souls go then, so do the souls of animals. We must remember that the soul, the spirit, that energy which is our self...our essence, takes up NO room at all. This is such a huge question because there are so many definitions of 'what is Heaven?,' what is the soul?, etc. It is relative, relatively speaking. My belief is that our true being is housed in the physical while we exist on the earth. After our physical death, our spirit - soul - energy - essence continues on. Think of radio waves...think of microwaves, think of all the techy toys we have...what is their essence? Energy. How do we capture that? With hand held devices, computers, phones, etc....our physical body is the receptor/receiving vehicle for our and others' essences.....so, Heaven would NOT be crowded...and, if humans go..so do our animals.
I have to ask two questions. 1, why are the cats lucky? And 2. Do your pets go to Church? Or are they every bit as good as the rest of those Church goin' animals?? Or, may not want to hang out with the hypociytes Hey, all in good fun. People, I do not have my glasses, and i am going to be really embarrased tomorrow. .
I believe in an afterlife and so feel it is the same for animals. Where? Not sure to be honest but somewhere I believe to very nice and happy for our fury, feathered, just to mention a few of our beloved companions...
In order to answer your question one would have to surmise that you seek answers from a Christian point of view, and as such the answer is no. But if you seek the tru as in Asatru, the answer is yes. Given that you used the term "heaven" and not Asgarth, or in lay terms, Asgard, it seems that you only have a Christian view of the truth, and in that, only those saved can enter into the Kingdom of God. Is your god the incarnate Jesus? If so then you need to explore church doctrine and the precepts handed down over the past 2000+ years. Good luck!
Our church teaches that animals go to heaven, but the flip side of Chrisitanity they believe it cannot happen. I believe when I am called home, my wonderful pet will greet me across the rainbow bridge.
Then its obvious that you are not of that so-called religion known as christianity. The "Rainbow" bridge huh? Well that is one name for it, but most call it Bifrost. I'm giving myself away because I am very devout Asatru or what some call "The Old Religion" of our ancestors. It is well looking into if indeed it has cought your attention. Odinist, Asatur or the Old Religion but keep in mind, unlike what some might tell you, we do not worship the gods, we worship what the gods worshipped. We honor the gods, even go so far as to give them a certain homage, but this is not worship. If you have any questions that I can help with email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
I am Christian and I do believe there is a heaven. Whatever all of us believe in , this I know for sure there has to be something better then what we live in now.
Just because It's not something I wish to share on the forum.
Then email me. I am curious to hear your explanation why you think there has to more?
We'll keep it between us. I'm not trying to demean, but want your insight(way of thinking). No joke. Just curious.
Well I will tell you why I believe there is more.
When I was 16 I had pneumonia, I actually died and I had seen my lifeless body laying on the bed. My mother was standing next to the bed crying and the doctors kept telling her I was gone. When I turned into the light, there were many people in the light but they did not have any faces.There were animals! I knew the people and they kept telling me to go back, go back. What I remember after that was doctors saying, she is breathing. I felt my mother's hand on mine. I was back! I am here and I know there is a heaven and there is life after death. I know there is a God and that is why I believe. I will not discredit other people's beliefs but there is a God and there is a beautiful place after this, that is filled with happiness and joy. There are people waiting to embrace you when you get to the light. It is brilliant! All of this tookplace before I knew anything about life after death.
If you're a Christian, then the something you want to find that is better than what you have now could very well be a life without being a Christian, if living the life of Christian is so bad. Give up Christianity and maybe you'll find that something you're looking for.
I know my dog is already in heaven. I cook for her, clean for her and even pick up her excrement. Her only worry is which pillow to lie on during the day.
I honestly don't know for sure, but my gut feeling is "Yes". Either way, I have two cats now, and I intend to have their ashes buried with me when I die.
If heaven exists, which I think it does, and if I get there, which I pray I do, I know I will be at peace and happy, with or without them. If heaven is purely spiritual, I hope my beloved cats (and other pets) will be there with me, since they were truly a source of comfort and joy here on earth. If it is a physical reality, I hope they will join me in glorified bodies as well. If there is no heaven, we will be together forever anyway.
I pray that happy memories are eternal.
Just before my dog died, I had a dream in which I saw my (already dead) cat. When my cat saw me looking at him, he jumped off the top of the wall and hid. My dog died a few days later, and I do believe that my cat's spirit had come to take the dog with him. It was the only time I have ever seen my cat in a dream.
Pets seem to have their own personality and disposition. That could very well be their soul. Interesting question!
It is. I don't believe they copy what we do, they have there own character. I do believe they go to a heaven and wait for us when we cross the bridge. Our pets love us and are never far from us.
Absolutely...yes! If you believe in the bible, it is clearly written that everything was created spiritually first, by God. In addition to that, dogs love unconditionally, while humans struggle to do the same. Our precious pets are quick to forgive. Personally, I wouldn't want to go to a Heaven where my beloved "Clancey" would not be present. And...it just makes good sense that animals also have a life in the here-after.
Will Rogers has expressed my thoughts on this exactly:
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go
where they went."... Except in my case, where my beloved Simon, a deaf, pure white, blue-eyed cat went...it's been 7 years since I lost him in a tragic accident and I still miss him, always will...
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Yes. I believe in heaven and hell, in souls going there. But it will depend on your religion. There are some people that do not believe to those.
I, personally, like to think that all life is connected and all consciousness is eternal. I don't believe in any heaven, but I would believe your pet 'lives on' in some form.
I think so too. My friend also talks about a fourth dimension which I have thought about deeply and can imagine our dog running with others through a field and being happy, while watching us here on earth. I know it may sound a little nuts but one may never know.
I've never heard of a fourth dimension, but if it feels good to imagine; it's good. Since we don't know, why not imagine the best scenario possible.
That is so true. My friend doesn't believe in Heaven either, which is o.k. but her beliefs in dimensions, does make me wonder. That would be a wonderful scenario wouldn't it? I miss our dog he was so unique so I only dream of the best for him. I also enjoy your positive outlook too!
Yes, it would be nice. I'll have to read up on the idea of dimensions in an afterlife. Sounds interesting.
And you have a sweet outlook. It's nice of you to wish for the best for your pet. Animals certainly deserve as much as we do, if there is anything after this life.
I'm just curious, why does nearly everyone think that when a living being dies, it goes on to a better place where everything is wonderful? Perhaps it is. I do not know myself. How would we feel if they go to a place of tremendous suffering? What if they go no place at all, but are just dead? If a dead being goes to an astral plane, why would they need to experience joy, sadness, or anything at all?
What is the purpose of an afterlife, a heaven, a hell? Why do suicide bombers want to die just to get 27 virgins? If they are in heaven, wouldn't they be unable to despoil the virgins even if they were to interact with them? Is ghost sex possible?
I do believe that there are animals in heaven. The Bible says that, in heaven, the lion will lay down with the lamb. God made these wonderful animals, I don't think heaven would seem right without them!
I believe there are animals in heaven to, I just wonder why so many disclaim it. It certainly doesn't make any sense.
Hi AEvans...I think those who disclaim it are coming from the premise of anthropocentricism or homocentricism...that all revolves around the human being and/or that the human being is the pinnacle of creation. It's fine to hold this belief but, it does not necessarily exclude other species...so, to answer your question "why?"..Human EGO. We just can't seem to get over ourselves. And, I agree with you...it makes no sense.
Isn't that speaking of the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth though?
Can't have geese crap all over the sidewalks in Heaven.
If there are no dogs or cats in heaven I don't want to go there...
I wouldn't be in true "heaven" if my pets weren't beside me. Just my thoughts.
I agree! I don't know how many people here have heard of the Rainbow Bridge poem...in the poem, it says that when pets die, they go to a meadow by the "Rainbow Bridge" and play with other pets while waiting for their human to come. Then, when their human dies, they meet their human and cross the Rainbow Bridge to heaven together. It's a beautiful poem. You can read it in full here: http://www.legendofrainbowbridge.com/poem.html
Our vet gave us a copy of that poem that sits with our beloved pets ashes and makes me cry everytime I read it. Thanks for linking it for other to, who may need it due to loss of there pet.
I miss my Simon...That's him in my profile pic...Thank you for this poem which I am forwarding to several friends that have recently lost loved pets...
The unconditional love a pet gives us is as close to perfection as we will find on this Earth...Larry
It's unfortunate that we give so much credence to the creatures than we give to the Creator Himself - God Almighty.
Perhaps you are the person who can explain why your god felt it necessary to drown almost all of the animals on earth? I can picture it now.
The baby rabbits and deer fawns, along with the other terrified animals, trying to reach high ground to survive a little while longer until the water finally reaches the top of the mountain.
Of course they swam as long as they could, until one by one, they finally filled their lungs with the god sent water and paid for their many sins. Finally, your god was satisfied he had rectified his mistake and could start all over again.
He taught those ungrateful animals a lesson they'll never forget. So yes, if they are worthy of a god's wrath, then they must certainly have souls.
I suppose I may have gotten a little carried away, Qwark. But I find it hard to worship any being which would drown innocent creatures or impregnate 13 year old betrothed virgins for his own satisfaction. Some people apparently have no problem with it. There's a name for those types.
"There's a name for those types."
Yes there is...and I'll keep it to myself..
As far as I'm concerned, you were right on the mark!
: Never make an excuse for tellin' it the way it is...truthfully! :
Thanks Qwark. Sometimes the truth does indeed hurt, but usually not the teller.
Qwark and Randy, looks like one must develop a pretty thick skin to run with you guys. Where's all the rage and ridicule coming from? I'd like to understand what you are writing, but your attitude is drowning out your words.
I suspect I'm one for whom you have those special names. Whether a statement is reasonable or utterly ridiculous depends on the world-view already espoused. A world view is basically convictions that drive our attitudes and behavior. We all have them. Not all are aware of them, 'cause they are shaped not so much by intellectual investigation but by the life experiences we through which we've navigated.
The thickness of one's skin has nothing at all to do with reality, LAS. I actually have no rage at all when pointing out actual biblical events to the believers. Ridicule?
Perhaps you may be on to something there, but some of us tend to laugh at the absurdities which otherwise intelligent people have to buy into in order to feel their soul is safe.
Either your god made a mistake and tried to rectify it by drowning almost everyone and every living creature on earth, or it simply never happened.
Or, your god foresaw from the very beginning his creation was flawed, but waited for more humans and animals to be born before drowning them all.
Either way, it doesn't engender faith in his all-seeing abilities nor does it bode well for future mistakes he may make. After all, he created Satan perfect according to your novel, but evil managed to tempt Satan even through your god's perfect shell. But then again, a perfect deity would have foreseen such an occurrence. So is he, or ain't he, omnipotent?
I've asked and, typical of your ilk, you have not provided relevant answers.
You realize you can't...so you don't.
Nothing more need be said, your silence says it all.
How many preachers have come and gone when they realize they aren't speaking to the same type folks who usually look up at them from the pews and actually believe they know what they speak of? Some even attempted to deal in facts, but weren't accustomed to doing so and quietly faded away.
This one, likely a Baptist, will fare no better, I wager.
Hahaha...In my early 20's, I spent over 2 yrs in baptist seminary Randy!
So I know 1st hand your meaning!
I spent quite a bit of time in a Baptist church as a child, so I am able to recognize a few traits of the indoctrinated too!
Most of them really cannot perceive of the bible being a mixture of myth and superstition as they've been admonished since childhood to not question anything in the book. It's simply a form of brainwashing used by most religious cults.
You two having a good time? There's no excuse for the treatment you got, Qwark, in the Baptist seminary. Fact is I don't have the kind of answers that will satisfy you. Nor does anyone. That's because the real issue isn't intellectual. Of course, I struggle with the questions you have raised and a few others.
The difference between us is that I've come to accept that there are vast questions for which there are no answers. You insist on having utterly satisfying answers at the same time that you aver to be but an insignificant speck in the universe. Don't think you can have it both ways.
Here's the choice as I see it. Either the mysterious, oft puzzling deity who reveals himself in the Bible is the true God or man is (each of us and humankind collectively). Given humankind's record and the sordid distortions of my own heart I choose the first option as far more rational.
I have worn your "mocassins!
I think "light yrs" beyond contemporary belief in metaphysical divinities.
You say you read my "profile." If that's true, you are but one of too many to count, whom I've asked these questions of and none of you can respond to me in any form but baseless opinion.
Life has been an "education" for me consisting of yrs of formal education and personal study and research.
I AM a pragmatic realist who understands the history of life on this planet as offered by those who spend a life time studying it.
If they are proved wrong my beliefs will adjust to empirical truths.
Yes, I ask those such as you who believe in such things as gods, trolls, dragons, wizards and fairytale entities...why?
I get nothing of substance in return. All answers are based 100% on guess and conjecture.
I'm sure yours would be too.
Having a good time? Not really, because I enjoy a challenge and believers do not offer such. I simply detest superstition and myths taught to children because their parents do not know any better.
After all, most of their parents were taught the same way. How did you choose your own particular religion and how many others did you examine before making your choice? My bet is that you inherited yours or had very little exposure to any other. Am I wrong?
Thanks guys, but we're talking past each other. I'm signing off. Eternity will reveal who's on the right track. Whatever we believe will eventually be shown to be either gold or straw. I'm at peace.
Thanks guys, but we're talking past each other. I'm signing off. Eternity will reveal who's on the right track. Whatever we believe will eventually be shown to be either gold or straw. I'm at peace.
Accounting to my religious historical records, Christian as a group was brought more war to the people and suffering to wildlife than any other group. Not my Idea of sound peace of neither within self nor with nature and not my idea of a creator
My feelings exactly!
Only, I would add in just about every other species on the planet, too. I'm agnostic, so I don't necessarily believe in heaven, but if it does exist, there is no way I'm not taking the opportunity to go see some dinosaurs close up!
Young earth creationist claims, dinosaurs coexisted with man, and the dinosaurs were in the Noah’s Ark along with the likes of T-Rex and all the other animal on the Ark were vegetarians until the boat returned back on land, then the carnivores return back to eating meat.. I guess thats what God's plan is when all the animals get to heaven, like the lion laying beside the lamb within eating it, that is some fine trick
I think it would be a blast to go to heaven or hell and visit 95% of the misssing animal that ever lived on the earh, in which man has never recorded
I believe that whatever a "soul" is, if humans have one, then so do dogs! I don't believe in heaven, but I do believe that some essence of ourselves and of other animals, including our pets, continues to exist.
Personally, I don't believe in an afterlife for humans or any other animal. However, there have been two events in my life, which did make me question this belief. One followed the death of a cat of mine called Sam. He died on the Saturday morning, and I buried him in the back garden. For days before his death he had been lying on the carpet in front of the fire. Sam had a very distinctive meow. On the Sunday evening, I was lying on this carpet, when I heard what sounded like Sam's meow coming from beside me on the carpet. I looked at my mother, and said 'did you hear that?' She answered 'It was Sam.' So we both heard it.
A few years later, after another cat of ours called Tess died, my mom was sitting on the sofa, when she saw Tess jump from the top of the chair, onto the floor and then run through the door into the hall. This was a couple of weeks after she had died. However, I believe the human mind can create images, which it is used to seeing, and I do not believe in the spirit of either humans or other animals. There should be a lot more evidence if there really was such a thing.
I don't like to keep bringing up the downside of a Christian heaven, Where most Christian believe most people will end up in Hell. I would not want to consider my all loving pet could end up in pet hell too. Just because for no reason other than not being able to be trained to repent or able to repent on time.
How human live by over obedience schools, I may never understand.
In reading books like Life After Life, Embraced by the Light, and others...people who have experienced the tunnel of light but have come back to talk about it (Near Death Experiences) have seen animals also passing through that tunnel.
Consider St. Francis...the patron saint of animals.
I think that all living things have souls. Intelligence is not necessarily the key to an eternal life. Heaven is big enough for all of us!
Apparently animals were sinful enough for one god to drown almost every one of them in a great flood, according to old myths. I think this may have been the same god who created the particular heaven being discussed in this thread.
no they won't hun ! in muslim we believe that all animals dont have mind 2 understand what they r doin so god wont put them in heaven.. but they have soul 4 sure nice question
So - does that mean there will be ALL living things in 'heaven' - or just animals? And if just animals, why not living things like butterflys? Who decides what type of life qualifies for afterlife?
Do you believe that "Alice" fell into a rabbit hole and ....WOW!!!! a wondrous, weird life was awaiting her?
I hope that's not what I read into your response????
Qwark: I think you need to expand your reading material.
...and I think you should explain your comment: "...what type of life qualifies for afterlife?"
You explain that to me using reason and logic, as opposed to "baseless opinion," and by golly I'll read what your reading.
Can ya do that? I doubt it. :
I feel sorry for Qwark... what a horrible sad way to think and live. You are sadly mistaken, but you won't believe it until the end & by then it will be way too late. Oh well, have fun with that.
What is it ya think that I'll be missin" after I "pass?
Whatever it is, why do ya believe it!
Be nice, like your imagined jesus, and explain it to me ok?
Thanks...: (I bet'cha won't)
I think heaven, or the afterlife, is for the spirits of all things - but it is a personal thing - in other words, your heaven may be different than mine - different people, animals, whoever you were bonded with and really want to be with will be there with you - someone described it as "we see and hear and speak to each other, just not with eyes and ears and lips" and the same goes for animals. There is no question in my mind that it is different than life on earth where we may have an experience of people and animals we don't know and then forget them - afterlife is for the associations and loves we made in this life. So your old dog may be there for you, but not the ones down the street that kept you up all night barking.
The punishment and reward system does not inspire me much. For much of the religious med evil ethics and their sidedness behaviors are not the method of kindness I would flow with.
On the other hand
I think we are all spiritual beings first, having a human experience. Until our matter turns fully to the Spiritual world, we won't know what it's like, until we get there.
sure, we won't KNOW - but that's where belief fills the void of our lack of knowledge - we can conjecture and sort of conjure up a place, spirits maybe. Everyone will do this (some more consciously than others) and then they'll get just what they wish for. (so be careful )
lately I've been considering this thing about mind and body and how they combine and then again, how maybe mind doesn't need a body to exist. I think of how it may be that we are immortal spirits who inhabit bodies briefly to acquire certain physical experience that is useful to us somehow while we explore the universe. Well its a thought. Then, I was reading a book (very like sci fi, but not entirely) Pillow Friend by Lisa Tuttle, and its premise is that you do to a large extent order and create yourself, your world and your experiences. Conjuring like with magic, consciously making stuff happen. In the book these women actually create lovers who are flesh and blood to them, but really nonexistent. It is so like what we call psychosis, but then you watch your children grow up, and tell me they don't create themselves with the tools and materials they have. So why can't we create heaven for ourselves? It is plausible to me.
yes, exactly! but be oh so very careful what you wish for! is a brothel a good place to bring your pets?
YES! YES! YES! Heaven is Christmas every day and sex 24/7, and how can I pet your cat.
I have been lucky in life, to bring most of my wishes down to earth to be enjoyed safely and shared by others.
I've never been in a brothel, how would I know? Probably the madam or whoever has a pet chihuahua - or one of those teacup poodles. But we digress.
So, does this means Richard Gere would have had to furnish his own gerbils if he visited a brothel? What a huge inconvenience!
ack!...that rumour still makes me cringe..... it's just too flippin' sick...who could even come up with such an idea....ack! ack!
I think men make sh#t up about Richard Gere just becuz they're so damn jealous of him - those are the kind of men who go to brothels for the brothel pets! I'm disgusted with that!
If there was a hell, I know one eclectus parrot who is going straight in without needing a pass!
@Quark Can you project a line ad infinitum and see its end? Since we can't who are we to arrogantly dismiss or offend other people because of their differing perceptions? No better or worse than them. Interesting how you picked Quark as your name. A name that means hypothetical elementary particles. Drop the attitude, listen to what others say even if you disagree and join the human race, because humble pie may be flying your way very soon. It did me.
As for souls in animals. No. They don't have one. A soul has choices animals cannot make. However, there is a spirit within animals and they are able to even put themselves in other animal's or person's place. Something many people have never learned to do. It is the first step to love. As people we must go beyond this or remain as elemental as animals. Once you believe there is a soul (a simple test: look in the mirror and you may expect a younger person than the image portrays) then you can question is there a God and what happens after I die. He doesn't get upset if you ask. He does if you stop asking.
Teach us more oh Obi Wan! Where did you acquire this great depth of understanding of whatever god you are speaking for wants? Chastise and admonish us as much as you like, because after all, it is your god-given right.
When a preachers talks about soul salvation, if the Scriptures say something different. Spirit and soul are not the same in the Bible. ...
A soul, is spiritual, philosophical, and psychological traditions, is the incorporeal essence of a person or living thing or object. Many philosophical and spiritual systems teach that humans have souls; some attribute souls to all living things and even to inanimate objects such as a river. Soul sometimes functions as a synonym for spirit, mind or self...
Yes I think animals have souls too, except that nasty love bird my girlfriend own that keeps bitting me on the ears and fingers.
Looks like everyone else had something to say about your comment before I saw it this AM.
This time when you read what I write, grab your spectacles and put 'em on 'cause ya misspelled my name and made a comment about what you saw it as being. My name is "Qwark," not Quark.
You wasted effort writing about what you missread. The spectacles would have helped...maybe..???
Evidently Agnes, you take offense at my judgeing folks and adding them to my "no response" list. Is that correct?
I'm gonna keep this "short and sweet."
You wrote: "...is there a God..."
I'm going to assume that you believe there is. If I'm wrong I apologize.
If you do, believe in this "god thing," can you define "it" for me in a form other than opinion. If you can't I have to think, logically, that you are just "guessing and hoping" and have nothing of value to offer in ref to the subject of "it."
If all you can offer is an eloquently expounded opinion, why would you think that any "thinker" would consider you to be a credible authority on the subject of, whatever this "god thing" is and would offer a reply?
Of course you will get those of your religious ilk to respond, but they are "followers," not "thinkers."
Your response may determine my decision to add you to my "no response" list or not.
Am I being arrogant and offensive if, based upon your nonsensical reply, I add you to my list?
Naw, it'd just be a decision not to waste time and effort chatting with a programmed bot.
I'm waiting for an answer from you to my question about defining this god thing.
What is a qwark thing? Who am I speaking to? No picture for me to verify a person. Too many people lie in the internet anyways for me to believe this is a person. It's probably Hubpages team testing this forum. It must be. I am going through too much trouble so I will deny that this qwark thing is a person.
Silly, isn't it? The only way to believe in a Supreme Being is not by interviewing Him or Him presenting Himself to you. You need to do a little deductive reasoning. By clues you know that Incas, Mayas, Aztecs and other ancient civilizations lived this earth. By clues you know oxygen is present, though you do not see it. By clues you can tell who is responsible for a killing even though you were not a witness to it.
Science teaches us that nothing can live in a vacuum. So everything has a continuity: One being touching another even those microbes we can't see. But, who is Science? The compilation of people's knowledge that has been tested over and over acquiring the same result every time. When person after person live lives of pain, sorrow and misery yet they come through these in peace that is a clue to me to ask HOW; and where do these point to. I came to believe in God by people who had nothing but pain in their lives, yet they remained in peace simply by their belief in God. Throughout time, in all civilizations the ones that have remained in peace in pain have even broken nature's laws like gravity, reading others' hearts, facing lions and singing as they were eaten, being in two places at once, the preservation of their bodies after death after burial without a box or chemicals or extreme cold. These clues lead me to wonder what kind of lives they led. Where others couldn't conquer governments a small nun helped the poor because she saw Jesus in them and conquered the world as recognized by those not of her faith. Like her there are thousands upon thousands.
Science teaches us to prove. We should never stop searching for the Truth, but if we are simply looking to justify ourselves we may see Him, deny Him and... well are YOU really a person? I wouldn't want someone to question that about me. Why would I continue questioning God's existence?
And as far as the animals... The pastor's answer got it right (clues led me to the Bible). We are the stewards of this earth. Animals must be cared by us, not the other way around. Our ultimate purpose is to reconcile a relationship lost with God and if He needs to use animals to remind us of that relationship He is in all His right to do so. But if we loose sight of this we will end up loving the creation and forgetting all together the Creator. Talk about loosing the forest for the trees.
You wrote an eloquently offered "opinion." Ty. :
"Opinions" are still, in todays market, only worth about a dime a dozen....soooo....since you made no attempt to answer my question: My question was:
" If you do, believe in this "god thing," can you define "it" for me in a form other than opinion. If you can't I have to think, logically, that you are just "guessing and hoping" and have nothing of value to offer in ref to the subject of "it."
Welcome to my list of those who have nothing credible to offer and are not worthy of a reply. You'll be comfortable because there are many of your religiously programmed "ilk" there to keep ya company. :
Humans are part of the animal kingdom, primates to be exact. 2 DNA points away from a chimpanzie. So I'm sure all animals have souls to the sake of argument.
Importantly sentient animals have feelings, can feel pain and suffer. We need to love and care for them and their families.
I even look after the spiders in our house, never hurting them but releasing them outside.
Except huntsman spiders, I am happy to share my space with them when they arrive every year.
oh yeah, never forget we ARE animals - not separate from everything else but part of it and so if heaven is a haven where all our spirits live after life here, go ahead and cherish everything else too, waken every morning to how lovely it is now and worry about heaven after life later!
O.K. if you can imagine, me bout an 8 year old boy. My puppy I had only a few weeks just died. Somebody poisoned her. I'm shattered. A few days go by.....Mom, do you think there will be dogs in heaven? Moms. Looked at me and said, "are you going to be happy in heaven?" "Of course, everybody in heaven is happy." "If you have to have that dog to make you happy, she will be there."
Ladies and gentleman it don't get no better than that!!! By the way, Mom's 80, here. Dad, well, he may have a dog. 3 years this September. Oh, and my dog, half border collie and half cow dog. Glass eye. Good dog. My brothers litter. Born the day after Dad died. Thought it would be neat to have her. Had my doubts, but it is gonna work. Oh, just noticed this little sign over here to my left. They think I'm advertizing or something. Well, I am, my ignorance! Lonely, somebody call me.
I've read most (not all) of the debate that is going on over this subject, and given who and what I am, I want to put in my two cents. Who am I? and What am I? Well let me start by saying that I am a doctor in two fields of endeavor, on the one hand I'm a doctor of theology, and on the other I'm a doctor of divinity, and yes I did pastor for many years. Now that is the "who" in whoville, but this doesn't answer the "what" part, does it? Well what I am is most assuredly NOT a christian, or what I like to call the pseudo-religion, and what John the Divine calls the "Great Whore..." among other things...and to be perfectly honest, I simply know far too much about that hellish religion to ever believe in their god or their christ. But still, this doesn't explain the WHAT, soooo, I took on the Asa and Van of my ancestors and probably the same with each of yours also. Okay, I am what is known as Asatru and this is where the "church" got the word heathen, but in reality simply means pre-monotheistic, although if you were to do a search using the word Asatru, you'd come away believing that we Tru folk were poly-theistic, (Odin, Thor, Freyja, and the like) which is not true at all. We Tru folk believe and worship what the gods believe and worship...you see, its not who we are that defines us, its what we do that makes it all so very real.
Now, do dogs, cats, mice, birds, or whatever, go to heaven? I've never met anyone that has been there to question and answer this. But the very first time I do meet someone that has been to the christian heaven, I'll be sure to ask if there are animals in their heaven. Oh and, if any of you who reads this, if indeed you do meet anyone that has been to the christian heaven, make sure you ask the same question and please get back with me.
Listen people, please, if indeed you're going to believe in some religion, no matter who or what the dictates of that religion puts upon you, please, please, please believe in yourself first and foremost! You are the spark of the divine. But let me simply say this, "Do you have faith?" then "...I know and am persuaded...that whatsoever a man (or woman) believes to be true, then to that person it is true." And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what the bible has to say on the subject. Do you believe? Then isn't that the sum of faith? Oh, and by the way, I'm pretty sure that Geri and Freki, Hugin and Munin, and many others still reside in Asgard. Blessed Be!
absolutely positive on both questions. Watch a small bird for a little while and they will turn their head toward heaven at a certain angle and squint very stongly,as they are looking to & at God.
Yes, mostly definitely they go to heaven and their souls are special - I know Teddy's is.
I have read many books about near death experiences and the people who have returned from that "tunnel of light" have also seen animals going through it. That is enough for me! Yes, I believe that animals will also be there in heaven right along with St. Francis who loved them so!
Yes, they do go to heaven. God created all things and by Him all things exist. He keeps what He makes.
I have no answer for the question, but I do know that animals we own give us "unconditional love". They just love us for "being us". I believe they are here to teach us unconditional love.
maybe, i have a very lovely dod ,but he was missing and i miss him so much ,one day ,when i am out on a road ,a black dog ,very similay to my dog but i know he is not my dog, but he come to me , touch me .i think he is the angle my dog send to me .and i believe that my dog never leave me, always stay with me .
I think whatever we need in Heaven in order for us to be happy will be there. In my case, that would include numerous dogs and several horses - maybe even a cat or two.
This sums it up pretty well I think. I have this posted in my Hub about the beloved dog I lost:
"Until We Meet Again
I know what you're thinking. You think I'm dead. Because you cannot see me with your human eye, cannot feel me with your hands or hold me in your arms, you think I am gone forever.
You recall how I looked when I left this place, and you cannot remotely imagine that I could possibly be alive in another place. You are racked and torn by the pain of our separation and it blinds you to that which is right in front of you... me.
How many times since I left your immediate sight have you been told that I'm dead and you should "get over it?" How many times have you cried yourself to sleep because you feel like an outcast, believing you're supposed to get over me because that's what people say is normal but somehow you can't and no one seems to understand?
How many times have you put yourself through such excruciating pain because you aren't willing to consider that I am not, by any means, dead? I want you to do me a favour and go back in time with me. Remember the glorious day you brought me home - was I not the most intriguing creature you'd ever met? Did I not make you laugh and giggle? Did I not look at you with such adoration that you wanted nothing more than to spend the rest of your life with me? I wanted this too.
Remember the days when I was in my prime and we did many things together. You were so proud of me! I was a good friend and I took care of you when you cried, were angry or felt down and unhappy.
When you didn't have a lot of time for me because of your obligations, I waited patiently for you. I was always there when you needed me. Did I not look at you with such acceptance and patience that at times you felt perhaps a bit unworthy? You were never unworthy in my eyes.
Remember when age crept up on me, my bones became stiff and my movements slower. Still I met you at the door when you came home and followed you around the house. We'd been together for so long, I was your very best friend regardless of what you were doing, saying, thinking. Did I not look at you with such kindness and understanding that you felt overwhelmed? I couldn't get enough of you.
Remember the last time we saw each other with earthly eyes. You tried to be brave but I knew you were crying... I know you so well. Better than anyone else in the whole world. Did I not look at you with such pure trust and love that you yearned only to hold me close and keep me with you always? Did you not promise that you would love me forever? I believed you.
If this is so then why have you let me go by thinking I no longer exist? Remember the depth in my eyes all those times I looked at you with adoration, acceptance, patience, trust and love. Who created this depth and love? Would the Creator diminish the song of our laughter which was created in the name of love? I am no longer an earthly figure, this is true. My body was only part of who I really am. My body would have been but a mere shell on earth if it were not filled to overflowing with my soul, my spirit, my loving light. When we met you thought I was cute, sweet, pretty and adorable. But what kind of relationship would we have had if this were all that I'd been? How could you have loved me if I'd had no spiritual substance?
We are all made up of energy that resides far deep down inside of us, it is our core, our soul, spirit and loving light. It is the energy that is all of life... it has no beginning, it has no end. It simply is and always will be and without it there is no life. You can't see it with the naked eye nor can you hold it in your hand, it is simply a certain knowing that this energy does exist. It's a knowing just as you know that our love existed on earth - you couldn't see our love in a solid sense, you couldn't gather it all up and confine it to one place. But you knew it existed. There was no doubt in your mind.
They demand you get over me, insisting that I'm dead and you'll never see me again because animals don't go to heaven. Oh really?
I'm here to tell you different. You were worthy of my love and undying devotion on earth as I of yours. Do you really believe this love would be snatched from us forever by a loving Creator simply because I wasn't human? Was I not a living, breathing creation with personality? How could I have been so if I didn't possess the energy of soul, spirit and loving light? And if this energy is and always will be, then how can it be that I am dead?
If my core is not of the energy that is all of life then I was never alive to begin with. But you know better.
You cry because you miss me, this I understand. I miss you too - miss the belly rubs, hugs and kisses that we shared. But life does go on beyond these wonderful, fulfilling physical connections.
I came to this place to live a whole new life, not because I didn't love you anymore or because I wanted something better. I came here because it was time for me to go to the next phase of my existence, something all living creatures must do eventually. It is the normal progression of life. I was not taken away from you because you cannot take away that which was never owned. My presence in your life was and is a gift to be cherished and honoured just as I cherish and honour you.
Life is not simply about being born into a body, living a certain number of years and then dying. Energy cannot die. We are blessed with time in a body so that we can learn, share and grow. It prepares us for the next phase of our eternal life. The body holds within it the true life force of our existence... our soul, spirit and loving light. Without these our bodies would be empty, blank, void of feeling and expression. Without our energy we would indeed be dead and could never have experienced our love for each other.
You say that all you have left are memories. Not so. You see, when I took leave of my earthly body I left a little something behind for you. You can't touch it, hold it or examine it for what I left behind is far too uninhibited for confinement. I left behind a piece of my soul. I placed it right next to your own which is quite fitting as we were always side by side in our earthly life together. I love you too much to have left you with nothing but memories that tend to fade and grow cloudy as the years go by.
I love you too much to have vanished without a trace. How selfish it would be of me to remove love and light from your life.
I understand your tears, each one you shed is testament to your love for me and I am honoured and humbled. But don't forget the good things we shared - remember and smile. This is an honour for me as well. And when you need me I will be here. Close your eyes, relax, take slow, deep breaths and picture me in your mind. Shut off the world and your notions of what death is and give me a chance. Look for the subtle signs I send you. Don't stop being proud of me, I am a friend to be proud of, I am still your friend and soul mate.
Don't memorialise the death of my body but instead honour and celebrate my never-ending life for it is eternal and forever as is my love for you.
Until we meet again...
Okay, I'm tearing up now. Think I'll go hug both of my wonderful Great Danes! It scares me at just how much I love these guys. I can't imagine my life without them. That was beautiful, Misty!
I to am a Christian, and i do believe that animals go to heaven. I think that if animals can sense spirits (yes i have had a real experience like this before, and i think it will make a great hub) so much more keenly than adult humans do, that MUST mean they not only have souls but are also pure.
Right now i sound like an idiot... but i vow that i am a big believer of science and reason.
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