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How to stop water for gas scam on Hubpages?

  1. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    I feel ashamed.

    I feel ashamed that my favorite place on the Internet takes part in ripping people of their money.

    I physically cannot go to every one of dozens of hubs that lie to people about this "wonderful invention". On top of this, some authors delete my comments, some do not allow comments at all - surprisingly.

    I know that this kind of deceptive advertising is omnipresent on the Internet and cannot be eliminated completely. But I want to eliminate at least this particular type of scam on this particular site called Hubpages.

    Would appreciate any idea on how to approach this task smile

    1. 0
      pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Misha,

      Here's my blog making fun of those guys;


      The guy I write it for wanted me to write "specifically on the water-powered car" so I did.


      1. Eric Graudins profile image61
        Eric Graudinsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        That article is great.
        If you write like that, what the bloody hell are you still doing at that bank (as discussed elsewhere on the forums :-) ???? :-)

        1. 0
          pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          What a nice thing to say! Thanks! I'm at the bank because I live in the US and need health insurance. In fact, I went to the ER from work Friday morning with heart attack symptoms and just got out today, so now I will have to write 24/7 just to keep my house. I don't know which was scarier--the possibility of checking out, or the knowledge that the meter was running and even WITH insurance I was almost certainly financially screwed the minute they rolled me into the ambulance. So scary, but at least I'm home at last and not dead. My beloved is even now hovering over me making "wrap it up" signals--he thinks this came on from overwork but I think it just came on from being 55 and too fat.

          Thank you so much for the kind words! smile

          1. VioletSun profile image70
            VioletSunposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            What a nice thing to say! Thanks! I'm at the bank because I live in the US and need health insurance. In fact, I went to the ER from work Friday morning with heart attack symptoms and just got out today, so now I will have to write 24/7 just to keep my house. I don't know which was scarier--the possibility of checking out, or the knowledge that the meter was running and even WITH insurance I was almost certainly financially screwed the minute they rolled me into the ambulance. So scary, but at least I'm home at last and not dead. My beloved is even now hovering over me making "wrap it up" signals--he thinks this came on from overwork but I think it just came on from being 55 and too fat.

            Thank you so much for the kind words! smile>>>

            Pam!!! I am so sorry to hear about this scare, and glad you are home! My sister had arrhythmia about 8 years ago, and she never had heart problems before. In her case it was due to the overstress of managing her boutique, which was in turn draining her financially. She got rid of it with my help.  Nowadays, she doesn't have any heart issues as she watches her stress levels, but this was a wake up call for her.


            1. 0
              pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you Marie!

              Yes it was kind of a wake-up call for me too--I'm actually still digesting it. I've been complaining loudly about the bank now for quite awhile but not changing anything, just working  harder and harder at the writing to keep my attention off of the bank, but now I see some things have to change, really have to change. I have to pay more attention to my health, and not later either but right now, immediately.

              A weird thing happened once they decided to  check me into a room and I got settled in there--I was by myself, watching TV in the hospital room--it was the first quiet moment since the ambulance got me there-- and I suddenly became very aware of my mother being in the room. My mother has been dead about 15 years now, and we were not close, we had a difficult relationship. But all it felt like was that she  was there, caring about me, just being there with me. It lasted about 10 minutes, and finally I said, Mom, I'm not ready, you're freakin' me out here. And then she was gone. I sh*t you not. It was very very intense--I know it sounds like stress, but to me it felt very real.

              I'm sure there's a hub in this but probably not today--by the way, I love the new photo of you and your man! You guys are adorable. Thank you for your kind thoughts and good wishes, Marie. Have a great holiday!! smile

              1. robie2 profile image91
                robie2posted 8 years ago in reply to this

                OHMYgosh,Pam--soooo glad you are home and recovering. Please please take good care of yourself. Sometimes the universe just hits you over the head to get your attention and this sure sounds lilke some kind of wake up call. smile

                I hope you can get lots of rest and not get too stressed out over the writing and for God's sake stay away from the bank, at least for awhile. I wish you could quit that job, or at least not let it get to you....but I do understand that you need the insurance more than ever now smile

                Also thanks for sharing the experience with your mother--I don't think it is weird at all. I had something similar with my father--I woke up in the middle of the night and felt him near me very strongly. His wife phoned me the next morning with the news that he had died during the previous night( I hasten to add he was very ill and it was not an unexpected death)  I firmly believe he came to say goodbye before the took off for greener pastures.

                In any case I hope you feel better soon and I bet I am not the only hubber who will be sending healing prayers your way. Geet better soon!!!!!!

      2. 60
        winsletposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Friend its a nice site. I never saw this types of sites its very useful for me. I like your site so much.
        Thanks for share this site.

    2. 60
      Water-4-Gasposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I have no idea How i found this page. However when I saw some of the things said about the water for gas, I had to stop and write.

      Everyone of you who think it's a scam, think again. You're dead wrong.
      Why do I know? Because I went and paid for some of these things on e-bay, and guess what, my 2000 ford f150 with 200.000 miles that WAS getting 11 miles to the gallon, is now getting 27. YES I said 27.

      just to let you know. I dont have a web site, I am not making money off this. I would even go as far to say if you want to try it. I buy the damn thing for you so you can see for yourself and spread the word.

      people hate change, the young the old everyone. Can any one tell me what water is?

      H20.......if you break h20 down what does it become ?  hho

      do you think it would burn ?

      people it does work. maybe you should take the time to read about it.

    3. thranax profile image60
      thranaxposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I think cars can run on just water-just not yet. I don't like the hubs that say they can now. They can't, theres nothing you can add onto your vehicle that will make it run on just water. We can't remove the pages because they don't break any rules- you can write whatever you believe in including fake story's, so why can't there defense be a made up real life story? Sometimes scams can be seen and stopped, but this one is more difficult. The only thing you can do it educate people about it on a forum post like this, maybe leave it as fan mail to as many people as possible, better yet-MISHA write a hub that will pull #1 on many searches for these scam hubs ( (; time to use that stuff you argued about) and tell people its a scam in there with evidence pictures etc. That seems to be the best answer at this time smile

    4. 60
      MB Writerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      What I want to know is how do you know its a scam? Have you tried it on your vehicle? I find most people who go on about scams have never even tried what they say is a scam or have just gone about it in completely the wrong way. If you have tried it, done it the way they say and still feel its a scam I apologize for my generalization but unfortunately often people are criticizing things they simply don't understand. I am only looking into this now so can't say either way but I prefer to give something a good try before I blow it out of the water.

      1. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I don't have to try it to know it does not work as advertised smile

        Paraglider gave you theoretical reason why it can't work. The same reason the French Academy of Science stopped considering perpetuum mobile projects back in 1700s...

        And I do understand what I am talking about - I worked in car engines design and research for about ten years. And, btw, one of my responsibilities was testing of all kinds of gadgets people sell to improve engines. NOT A SINGLE ONE OUT OF DOZENS TESTED SHOWED ENOUGH MILEAGE IMPROVEMENT TO OFFSET THE COST sad

        The only way to improve your mileage is changing your driving habbits...

        1. soulsurfer profile image60
          soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Misha,

          It's a very good way, but it's not the only way.

          Paraglider and I have (I think) come to agreement about that on my EcoModding Hub.  Check it out and let us know what you think. The input of a car engine designer will be extremely valuable.



          1. Paraglider profile image89
            Paragliderposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            And I've just added a light-hearted hub to my collection on fuel economy without recourse to soapy water.

            http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Make-a-C … -Efficient

            Don't take it toooo seriously wink

            1. Misha profile image74
              Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Hey, I have a write-up on the topic, too big_smile

    5. Chairman Matt profile image60
      Chairman Mattposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      This thread is a very good start. I researched it using gistweb, and found there was outright hype and a community of people who had converted their cars. I also learned pretty much how to build the system and how it works.

      The key missing component, however, was exposed in this thread. It has to do with the much hotter combustion temperatures burning out the rings and valves. Anybody's guess what they do to aluminum pistons.

      They only thing I can think of is out-promote them. A hub with a headline like "The Shocking Truth About" coupled with community involvement and some solid seo underpinnings should dominate our featured list long-term and possibly outrank most of what's in Google's serps.

      I'd like to help, and I'm sure a lot of others would, too.

      1. soulsurfer profile image60
        soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Matt,

        Such a hub already exists, albeit without the hype riddled headline.  Come on over and join in the fun at EcoModding - Truths and myths about fuel efficiency.

        Haven't got around yet to discussing "high temperature hydrogen", but it's in the pipeline.



        1. Chairman Matt profile image60
          Chairman Mattposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Hi, Jim

          Hi, Jim-

          I used the hype-riddled headline to aim at the 95% that your style won't be read by, lol.

          1. soulsurfer profile image60
            soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Hi Matt,

            So the only hope is to out hype the hypers?


            1. Chairman Matt profile image60
              Chairman Mattposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Actually, you're better off ignoring them, since most people don't read what they buy, let alone build or operate the gizmo. Publishers have known this for over a century.

              The root problem here, not the symptom, is intelligent individuals behaving as lemmings when the laws of large numbers are applied. In this case it's the Gold Rush mentality. Fat burner was the big deal 6 months ago.

              You might want to take a look at ideamarketers.com and prweb.com as places that will get your message heard quickly. PRWeb can literally make your message front page news.

              Now here's the kicker- your editor at prweb is going to recommend a 95% headline, lol.

              1. soulsurfer profile image60
                soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Hi Matt,

                Thanks for those suggestions.  There are other, less conventional, ways of getting the message out too :-)

                Looks like I need help with my headlines then.  I'd welcome your advice on this one:

                Classified NASA Report Reveals Gas Saving Secrets

                Of course then the problem is getting people to read the hard science.

                1. Chairman Matt profile image60
                  Chairman Mattposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  Classified  and Secrets should work very well on a short hub linking out to the hard science parts on other hubs. A quiz headline could tease readers into their knowledge of automotive physics or something along those lines. Especially if they think you're leaking top secret info:)

                  1. thranax profile image60
                    thranaxposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    Sigh, its a horrible way to go about getting people to read something if you go to the root of the idea.

      2. Mark Bennett profile image60
        Mark Bennettposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not au fait with the science of it, but I'm very happy to help by writing a Hub, if someone can point me to a good source of raw material.

    6. born to be free profile image83
      born to be freeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      After reading some of those Hubs, I see what you're talking about Misha. These Hubs can be flagged as misleading because they give the impression that an hho generator produces so much hydrogen that it can replace the use of petroleum fuel all together. There are tests cars that run on 100% hydrogen, but they sure are not ran with an hho generator. We can all go down and buy one of these 100% hydrogen cars for a small fee of $250,000.00. :-)

      Another misleading thing some of these hubs do is they offer free hho plans. But when you go to the free hho plans you will find that many of them are not plans at all, they are simply documents discussing hho. After you get there you find out that they have the real plans for sale, or they have no plans at all, and they are selling hho generators. I found a lot of these hubs doing this because my real free hho plans are threatening their little game, so they are offering free plans just like I do, only problem is, they are deceiving people.

      Don't give up Misha, I did get results against one of these hubs, he had to change his lies and put a link to real plans. Focus on the misleading factor......

      1. sunforged profile image68
        sunforgedposted 7 years ago in reply to this
    7. getpaidtopost profile image61
      getpaidtopostposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      What is the scam? I don't get your post. are you saying are you saying the electrolyzer kits are a scam. I have a few friends use systems on their cars and one has gone from 45mpg to about 80mpg This is most definitely not a scam. I for one will be converting my car and van when the warranties runs out.

      1. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        O, I gave up on trying to fix uneducated ignoramuses. Wanna build one - good luck smile

        1. getpaidtopost profile image61
          getpaidtopostposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I would not build one, I would buy one from ebay from a respected seller with good feedback. This is what a few of my friends did. It is not 100% water though, it uses a water cell within a cell. they still need to put gas in the tank as you need the electricity generated from the engine to create the hydro from the water. I think you mean the scam is when people say 100% water and no gas.

  2. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Just to give you an idea of the scope of this - here is the result of a quick search on the topic. I am sure there are quite a few more...

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Running-Car-On- … To-Success
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Water-Powered-C … k-On-Water
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Run-Your-Car-On … Save-Money
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Water-Powered-C … r-On-Water
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Water-as-Fuel-- … sing-Water
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Running-Cars-on … Save-Money
    http://hubpages.com/hub/how-to-improve- … with-water
    http://hubpages.com/hub/How-To-Make-You … n-On-Water
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-it-a-scam-Ca … er-as-Fuel
    http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-drive-yo … ead-of-gas
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Water2Gas-Save- … -The-Earth
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Running-Car-Wit … ce-Fiction
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Browns-or-Hho-G … r-Your-Car
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Convert-Your-Ca … ur-Mileage
    http://hubpages.com/hub/Better-Gas-Mile … ve-Mileage

    1. guidebaba profile image60
      guidebabaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Sir: I appreciate your Observations and firmly believe that such things should not be allowed not only in HP but on the WWW itself. I wonder how many People would be Believing this !!!

    2. 0
      sandra rinckposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      now I understand why you got all bent out of shape about the water4gas thing.  I didn't realize you were talking about "scams" in literally using water to fuel their vehicals, while I was talking about steam(gas) power and not about cars. lol

      Well, I must say you have made the presence of this known on hp, it will take it course.  smile

      1. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well Sandy, I must have misunderstood you then smile

  3. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 8 years ago

    I feel bad for people who actually believe this after reading it sad.  Can you flag those hubs?

  4. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    I tried - but it is not that easy. We do not have scam category when flagging, I put it under "other" and tried to explain - but this does not violate current TOS probably, IDK...

  5. RFox profile image81
    RFoxposted 8 years ago

    Wow, I was totally unaware of this. Guess that's because I don't have a car. tongue

    Doing a great job Misha!!

  6. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Thanks Rachelle, But I don't really think I do sad

  7. Lifebydesign profile image79
    Lifebydesignposted 8 years ago

    Misha, you're so sweet, and do agree with Rachelle- great job!

    Would it help to 'thumbs down', and do what you're doing which is letting others know?

    wow but those claims are outrageous!

  8. Lifebydesign profile image79
    Lifebydesignposted 8 years ago

    some of the marketing's a riot- I'd probably go for it myself if I didn't know any better!

  9. Eric Graudins profile image61
    Eric Graudinsposted 8 years ago


    I fear that you're peeing into a hurricane. People want to BELIEVE that it's true. That You CAN run a car on water.

    Just like they want to believe that you can earn a thousand dollars a day on the internet doing nothing.

    There will ALWAYS be those who will step up to relieve these people of their money.

    And a hundred screaming hucksters almost always beats a lone honest person speaking the truth. Even if his name is Ralph Nader.

    The entire self help industry is booming, and sells the same basic themes over and over again in new wrappings.

    Because most people really don't want to improve - they just want entertainment.

  10. Lifebydesign profile image79
    Lifebydesignposted 8 years ago

    I agree it really is a two-way relationship and responsibility lies with both sides- those who persuade and those who can be persuaded.

    Ethics is required of the markerter, while some element of critical investigative thinking is needed from his/her audience.

    1. 0
      IMHustleposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You're so right. It's a 2 way relationship (actually a 3 way when you add in the merchant/product creator). The way I see it, all parties are equally responsible. Sure there are some marketers who don't care how they make their money, but the majority of affiliates that I've met in various forums are not scam artists. There are so many ways anyone can be taken advantage of. I've seen where the affiliate was duped by an unethical product creator - in more than one instance it wasn't the product, it was the way the offer was priced.

      The passion here is great and I understand it, but I won't label another Hubber as a scam artist unless I know for a FACT that they are knowingly promoting a product I factually know is a bad one. In my opinion flagging a Hub that doesn't violate HubPages.com's TOS is the wrong response - if you believe the quality of the CONTENT is poor, give it a thumbs down. Don't do it just because you don't like the product being promoted by the Hub.

      I could go into this a lot deeper, but I'm going to close out my response with this point. This is an online community, not a country club. A community should be open in spirit and welcoming to voices/opinions/points of view that are different (even if you disagree with them).

      1. Misha profile image74
        Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I am a very tolerant person generally. I always consciously try to allow for a different opinion and to keep my options and mind open, without making any judgment. I just happen to know for a FACT that this thing does not work, neither practically, nor theoretically. This is not a question of differing opinions unfortunately, this is a question of selling something that does not work as advertised.

        I know that this will not result in TOS change, I guess I am just ranting and venting because of feeling completely helpless, like an infant. I have to learn to live with this smile

        1. Lifebydesign profile image79
          Lifebydesignposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I wrote earlier there were two sides to the situation and I'm going to revise that smile

          There's a third perspective- the one who knows the difference, and has no stock in either of the other sides- except perhaps education. Turn your passion around into providing that objective perspective and inform!

        2. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I know how you feel Misha. I was in the motor industry, selling engine analysers when this scam took off. I wrote an extensive hub about it, but it really looks like people will continue to fall for it.

  11. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    I will say what I always say to the ones who try promoting this in the forums:

    The day you can run your car on water is the day you discover that the governments and corporations own all the water and it now costs $100 a bottle.  smile

    I also attack them when they come to the forums, but there is an awful lot of people pushing this. I even met one in the flesh at the Top Marques show in Monaco. I very much doubt she will ever speak to me again big_smile

  12. robie2 profile image91
    robie2posted 8 years ago

    Wow-- where have I been and why didn't I even notice that this was going on? I'm stunned, but on reflection, not surprised.  That's an amazingly long list of hubs, Misha, and thanks for posting them and shining a light on this scam.  Don't know what can be done if these guys don't violate the TOS--but a thumbs down and a flag couldn't hurt--especially if we all do it.

  13. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Thanks for your replies guys.

    So, basically everybody is saying that nothing really can be done, right?

    1. oryzana profile image60
      oryzanaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      is this the same thing with what they call hydrofuel???

  14. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    IMH - I agree. I have not flagged any of these hubs and I won't. If anyone comes on the forum pushing this, I will, (and have done) call them on it. The same as I do for the other scams.

    At best these people are lazy and haven't actually taken the trouble to find out if this is a scam or not.

    I was much more upset by the guy selling ebooks on how to cure cancer. smile But I still didn't flag any of his hubs because I don't see how it breaks the hubpages TOS.

    But, hubpages do have a thing about gambling (except forex trading lol) so may be they could be persuaded to have some ethical guidelines in the TOS. I just see that causing a lot of arguments though.

    1. 0
      IMHustleposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I agree Mark - a little product due diligence and market research goes a long way. Even then you can still get burned by an unethical merchant or product creator.

      Personally I would hate to see the inclusion of any ethical guidelines in the TOS. Like Embitca said ..who would make the determination of what is or isn't ethical?

      That cancer cure guy's post had a few folks knickers twisted. I didn't care for the tone of his Hub content, but I wanted to offer the guy some objective advice on using HubPages vs. Squidoo.

      Mark you gave me an idea - I could create some real controversy around here by creating a few Hubs on trading the markets and HubPages vs. Squidoo smile.

  15. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 8 years ago

    The only reason Hubpages has a thing about gambling is because Google has a thing about gambling and they wouldn't be able to run Adsense on those pages.

    Personally I would prefer no ethical guidelines in the TOS. Who determines what is and isn't ethical? The Water Car thing may seem like a clear cut case, but there are plenty of other issues that wouldn't be.

  16. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 8 years ago

    Misha, you should write a Hubpage exposing the scam in detail. Maybe that would help you feel less frustrated? Of course, you'd probably need to turn the Adsense off as that would just give them another page to advertise on.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Misha write a hub? big_smile

      Misha - Couldn't resist. wink

    2. Eric Graudins profile image61
      Eric Graudinsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yes Mischa. Then we could all quote your hub in the comments (even though they probably wouldn't be approved)

      [CHANT MODE]


      [/CHANT MODE]

      repeat as long as needed

      1. Lifebydesign profile image79
        Lifebydesignposted 8 years ago in reply to this


        1. VioletSun profile image70
          VioletSunposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Ditto from me too! Misha is popular and respected, and will attract enough attention to his hub revealing the scam and get the message across.  smile

  17. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 8 years ago

    Stranger things could happen, Mark smile

  18. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    LOL, Thanks guys!

    I'll think about it smile

    1. Lissie profile image85
      Lissieposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Get Pamela to ghost it for you - she's an excellent writer!

  19. waynet profile image49
    waynetposted 8 years ago

    Cars running on water sounds like a great idea!!

    maybe we will be able to do this fairly soon once we make engines that take water insted of petrol(gas)

  20. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 8 years ago

    I want to run my car on steam. That looks totally awesome and I was only looking that stuff up as a joke. I had no idea they were real.

  21. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    Wow! Thanks Embitca!
    Shame on me - I had no clue about those steam cars. Amazing machines. Looks like it might be a viable alternative to ICE - but probably there should be some fundamental flaws, cause nobody is considering them nowadays...

    Wayne, I guess the only real possibility of a water powered car is a steam car. Water is not a fuel. smile

    1. 61
      drumpf2002posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      you seem to be missing the point of what they are selling the fact is that water is made of h20 which is two parts hydrogen an one part oxygen. now what would happen if you where to break the bond between the hydrogen and oxygen you would now have hydrogen gas and oxygen gas. and we all know that hydrogen is a flammable fuel (remember the Hindenburg) that is what those web sites are doing and it does work look up hho powered cars on youtube and you will see cars running on a mixture of hho gas and regular gasoline.

      now im not going to say that the web site is not a scam because the info to build these devices are free on the net and is public domain (no patent on it)

      1. Paraglider profile image89
        Paragliderposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        We're going round and round in circles here.

        Steam cars - Use a great deal of fossil fuel to turn water into steam. Convert some of this energy into mechanical energy (movement). Throw the rest away. Steam engines are very inefficient, especially small ones. Large steam engines (trains, ships) were ok for a time, until diesel came along. Small ones were never any good.

        Now, water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen. True. Be thankful you weren't around when water was created, because a vast amount of energy is released in the process. It's called an explosion, a big one. To turn water back into hydrogen and oxygen, you need to put all that energy back in. Just break the bond? Just??

        1. soulsurfer profile image60
          soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this


          We've been there and done that drumpf.  Several times.  We're not missing the point.

          Check out Paraglider's hubs for an amusing explanation of why running your car on Brown's gas violates the laws of Physics.

          Check out mine for a serious explanation of why that's irrelevant if you're running your car on mostly gasoline plus a hint of water and/or hydrogen.

          Apropos of nothing whatsoever here's a quote from Al Gore's speech on Thursday:

          "The survival of the United States of America as we know it is at risk. And even more – if more should be required – the future of human civilization is at stake".


          1. Paraglider profile image89
            Paragliderposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            "Brown's gas", aka a mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen, is a perfectly valid fuel. What is not valid is the idea that you can create it with less energy than you can subsequently release by burning it.

            A hint of water is using it as a coolant. A hint of Hydrogen is using it as a fuel. Totally different, though both could come under the broad description of "optimising the mixture". No-one's arguing with that.

            But, when folk claim a 25% increase in fuel economy through water4gas, where's the control experiment that tries to tune the engine conventionally? Folk say "I was getting 21 mpg before xyz". Well, whose fault was that? So you had a crap car. Tough wink

        2. Misha profile image74
          Mishaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          That's why I did not reply. There is enough information in this thread for everybody to understand why that stuff does not work. If folks still want to waste their money - it's their informed decision...

          1. soulsurfer profile image60
            soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            I've never actually tried one of these devices.  Maybe one of the numerous vendors here on hubpages could send me a review kit so I could run some proper tests?  I very much doubt that they work as advertised.  It seems feasible that the electronic gizmo they show in their pictures might be able to persuade the engine to run leaner than it's designed for.  Misha can tell us what unfortunate side effects that might have.

            I'm getting very dizzy twirling round in circles here, so I've started a new topic.  Have you read the latest headline?

            "Texas Oil Billionaire says Al Gore should be Energy Czar"

  22. waynet profile image49
    waynetposted 8 years ago

    We'd have to sweat a fair bit to produce a little steam, but still could be possible...I have faith in steam...

  23. kpfingaz profile image71
    kpfingazposted 8 years ago

    Ok, I know I'm going to take a lot of fire for this but one of those hubs is mine. I've removed it from Hubpages after seeing this discussion but please

    Read my story in its entirety before you start on me.

    Hydro 4000 (Google's Cached Result)

    I would like to say that I've ALWAYS tried without effort to stay as ethical as I could in my marketing. I wouldn't like to think that I'm cheating someone somewhere out of their hard earned money but rather I would like to know that I'm actually making a difference in someones life.

    Do I really think that you can run a car on water?

    No. I originally hated this scam of running a car on water and didn't understand why people would think that they can do so...


    I was doing some research because one of those merchants is a close friend and he explained to me that you're not actually running a car on water and it is misleading for merchants & affiliates to advertise as such.

    He pointed out to me that the product gives instructions on how to build a device that can use water to improve fuel efficiency and increase your gas mileage. I asked him numerous times if this was a scam or not and he pointed out to me that the guy who does Water4Gas does in person installations. I asked him if he had tried it to which he replied that he hadn't but a close friend who is a mechanic worked with him on the product???

    So I actually did not know what to think but my friend the merchant was earning tens of thousands of dollars with his product and was looking for affiliates. I didn't care about all that...I just didn't want to be promoting no crap like this.

    Why I did the hub?

    So anyway I'm doing some research on Google Hot Trends on Thursday 8th May and I see this term, Hydro 4000 in the top searches.

    I did some investigation not knowing what it was and it turned out to be that an NBC affiliate in Florida had run a news story on a new device that can improve gas mileage. I read the news article and decided to search Youtube to see if I could find the corresponding story.

    Found it. Now up to this point I hadn't tried to promote these 'water for gas' because I didn't know what to think.

    Now this news story despite a few minor errors appeared credible since they weren't actually using water for gas but a water powered device (they even explained how it worked).  The results also were amazing - I wasn't there and I didn't think a news source like NCB would go as far as endorsing such crap.

    So I guess I believed for a moment and let me say this also - I still don't know what to believe because people are claiming that they're seeing results from this after they built the devices and installed them.

    Stand Out From the Others

    So anyway I did the hub and instead of going straight for the promotion, here's what I did.

    I offered the affiliate product as an alternative to the Hydro 4000 - I thought to myself if these people were going to buy a $1200 device that I only thought would work because I saw it on a news story then I would be helping them by pointing out an alternative that was $1100 cheaper.

    I didn't promote Water4Gas which would have earned me more per sale - instead I promoted my friend the merchant's product.

    I made an effort not to push this - I just summarized in my own words what the news story said - included the video and then did a short blurb about the alternative and of course I included my affiliate link.

    An Open Forum

    I'm now convinced that this thing worked but a part of me still wrestled with the idea that it
    didn't work.

    So what I did I left the comments open for ANYONE to comment and say what or how they felt.

    One of the people to comment on my hub was Misha who is someone here at Hubpages that I have a whole lot of respect for.

    He said,

    I think we have a mutual respect for each other and he was surprised and disappointed that I would get caught up in this 'scam'.

    Anyway I didn't delete his comment, or any of the other people who wanted to share their views that this was a scam. I didn't care what my visitors saw. I guess if they ALL said that I would have deleted the hub a long time ago but the views were rather mixxed and I'm not talking about the people who didn't know better. I wanted to leave the decision up to the visitors whether or not they were going to make a purchase despite what they read or thought.

    Closing Thoughts

    Scam or no scam, I won't be promoting these products again. I did very well with this hub but I'd still be making a 4 figure monthly income without it.

    I commend Misha for what he is doing and I hope people's eyes would be open to what is really going on and stop chasing the quick, easy money which is really for some people hard earned, needed money.

  24. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    I don't think you'll be flamed for this. In fact, I think you deserve all the praise for your decision. I always respected you, and I am really glad to see this was not a mistake on my side smile

    Thanks Kpfingaz, you really made my day smile

  25. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    Misha. As you are * unlikely * to write about it, I have written about it in one of my blog posts:

    Making money blogging

    Some other stuff too big_smile

  26. stephhicks68 profile image84
    stephhicks68posted 8 years ago

    Pamela!  You'd better listen to your husband and wrap it up.  My goodness - I am glad to hear that  you are home and resting from that terrible scare.  Take it easy.  Steph

  27. Lissie profile image85
    Lissieposted 8 years ago

    Wow Pamela I posted the above before  I read the whole thread!  I really don't understand the US system: if you have health insurance  don't they pay up when u have something as obvious as an ambulence ride to the hospital? Why is insurance tied to a job: if your job is causing u stress wouldn't you get a lower premium if you did something positive about the job like leaving or reducing  your hours?

    I have a brother in law who has a job offer in the US and a green card but he is over weight and diabetic and  Idon't understand how he'll get insurance: maybe he wont and doesnt realise the need there (we NZ and Australians are often uninsured or as I like to say self-insured! )

    1. embitca profile image82
      embitcaposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Even those of us who live here can barely make sense of the health insurance system. It is horrible.  Insurance companies tend to be weasels and most coverage is not 100%. Many plans only cover 80% of expenses, some cover less.

      The reason jobs = insurance is because of groups plans and the fact that most larger employers in the US offer insurance coverage with premiums at a significant discount to what a self-employed person could get on their own because they are part of a very large group plan.  Even then it can be very expensive. I think my sister pays $600 a month for herself, her husband and her child and that's with the discount she gets from being on her employer's group plan. 

      A self-employed person might get comparable coverage for twice that or more, but more likely would end up with some "catastrophic care" plan with huge premiums that doesn't cover basics, only emergencies. The only reason I'll be able to get insurance for myself this year is because my state requires 100% insurance coverage and so they subsidize the uninsured, but the cost overruns on this new law are huge and I expect the law to be overturned as soon as the state goes bust from it (Massachusetts).

      If you leave your job, you are entitled to buy what's known as "Cobra" insurance for usually 18 months after employment ends (whether you are laid off, terminated or leave voluntarily), however you pay the full value of the premium as your employer does not kick in to the plan anymore. For most people that can double or triple the payments required.

      Your brother in law could very well be denied coverage, but if he's got both a green card and a  job offer he might as well come over and give it a whirl. If it were me though, I don't think I'd pack up my NZ life until I knew things were A-OK smile

  28. 0
    pgrundyposted 8 years ago

    Thanks robie2 and lissie!

    Embitca explained the insurance situation pretty well. It is quite the mess here in the US--many, many people who do have insurance through their jobs still can't manage the bills because it does not cover everything. Bill and I both have a high deductible with 80% picked up after the deductible by the insurance company. Last year Bill was in the ER for half as long as I was with no cardio tests and we still owe $700 on that--they put us on a $30 per month payment plan and that took alot of stress off. His share came to a couple thousand all in all, for 14 hours, after insurance, so I shudder to think what two and a half days plus an ambulance ride will cost. I'll post it in a hub when I get the bill though.

    In addition to the $700 left from last year for Bill, I have $200 left from when I hurt my knee in February. After 5 hours in the GP's waiting room and one x-ray. he told me I hurt my knee and gave me some vicodin and an appointment with a specialist. That visit totaled around $600 and I never kept the specialist appointment because I couldn't really even afford the $600 vicodin let alone a test-ordering specialist. Lots of older people end up in trouble with medical bills, even with insurance---in fact the 24-year-old who sits in front of me at work would quit too, in a heartbeat, but our group insurance denied his claim late last year when he hurt his leg. He'd hurt it once before that summer, and their explanation was that two hurt legs in one year was suspicious. This even though HE HURT HIS LEG--the doctor's examination verified this. So he feels he has to stay until that leg bill is paid off. He hates the bank too. Most  of us do.

    If I were your nephew I'd stay put until the US shows signs of life--right now it's in critical condition and I'd say it doesn't look good.

  29. VioletSun profile image70
    VioletSunposted 8 years ago

    Pam: I had little chills when I read about your Mom's visit, and I have had experiences like that where the presence is so real that it can not be my imagination. Its ironic how we stay with a stressful job in order to keep our insurance and the  job is what can damage our health or worse kill us.   When I was in international banking, I lost 20 decibels of my hearing early morning in my good ear while at the job;  it was very traumatizing to be plunged into a deeper level of deafness- a membrane burst and destroyed hair cells all because of stress, this was my weakest organ so the stress affected it, as I am otherwise  healthy. I stayed for a few years more because I didn't want to lose my good salary and health insurance, but I reached a point when I had no choice but leave before I lost all my hearing as it was too stressful.  Nowadays, I lead as I have mentioned before, a pretty stress free life, and things have a way of working out I have found, insurance and all when stepping away from a dependable job, at least it did for me, but it took me  about  5 years to get it together. sad

    Thanks for your comments about my pic, smile It was taken last year during our anniversary. We are like little overgrown kids, seriously, we skip over speed bumps in the park and couldn't care less who is looking.   LOL!

    1. 0
      pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      That is so sweet! Bill & I are like that too--we are just so happy to have found each other. I'm going to jump this discussion to another thread as I feel like I've high-jacked it. smile

  30. Misha profile image74
    Mishaposted 8 years ago

    It's a mistake smile
    "HHO gas" has nothing to do with your mileage improvement - if you really have it smile

  31. 60
    johnandrews52posted 8 years ago

    Can we run our car with water and gas?   
    Can anybody tell me is the HHO Gas is real working or is another scam?

  32. Rik Ravado profile image91
    Rik Ravadoposted 8 years ago

    I checked this out on wikipedia:


    The problem is that more energy is needed to create the gas than is released when it ignites.  So effectively it is a scam.

    1. thranax profile image60
      thranaxposted 8 years ago in reply to this


      1. 61
        4abtrlifeposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        You are absolutely right in saying more energy is needed to create gas than is released when it ignites. But here's what you got WRONG. The increase in gas mileage is not due to burning Hydrogen or HHO. Electrolysis produces a little bit of hydrogen, this little bit of hydrogen burns instantaneously (compared to gasoline) because H2 is a much simpler structure than gasoline, which is iso-slurane which is something like C14-H22-O8.
        And when H2 burns, the temperature goes up followed by the pressure. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the next step will be. More gasoline would burn. So instead of the normal 25% of gas burnt now 40% burns (I made up these numbers, but it's something in that range). And what do you have? Higher MPG and lesser unburnt hydrocarbons, and more power.
        So is water4gas still a scam?
        I saw a great website with a lot of Scientific proof with research from MIT, and even the US Air Force. Can't seem to find it now, will post the link if I find it.
        Why the government doesn't adopt or promote this? That I have no idea, is it the big oil suppressing water4gas? (well I don't want to sound like the owner of water4gas, so I'll shutup now)

        1. Eric Graudins profile image61
          Eric Graudinsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          You saw it on a website?
          Well, that settles it. Water for Fuel MUST be true!

          And Misha, Mr. Knowles, Shadecloth, et al - I hope you're all ashamed of yourselves at doubting the water for gas technology after this convincing proof from 4abtrlife.

          If you apologize nicely, I'll let you in on one of the ground floor opportunities available in marketing my P_eeFuel system.

  33. baguiobizz profile image60
    baguiobizzposted 8 years ago

    i agree wit embetica or something, the blue hair woman in the picture. i agree with what she said. Expirement, write and video about it just like how they do it in the popular discovery channel show, MYTH busters.

    If you want to stop people from being scammed, show them that its not possible. you obviously feel obligated to do that, i think. i think that is the reason why you started this thread.

    Remember, things aren't always how they seem. In theory or in your logic it might now work but, im sure your not close as smart as einstein, even he got things wrong, in actuality it will work. Also, in myth buster sometimes they shock themselves because they found things that to them it wouldn't work, only to find otherwise.

    Many people believe this works because they said so and a lot of people say its a scam. For the people who said it works, i kinda have to go stick to their side because they have tried it. As for the people who said it doesn't work, its really hard to stick to their side because all they have done is think and concluded basing to their, sometimes faulty knowledge.. Unless you have tried it yourself, don't call it a scam.

    Plus.. if it doesn't work. they have i think 60 days money back guaranteed. You can get your money back. FULL refund.

    SO Mish, i challenge you, PROVE IT. Don't Talk, Give Us some Hard Evidence

  34. thranax profile image60
    thranaxposted 8 years ago

    The reason we don't do something like Myth Busters is because it is impossible with our current technology smile You can't prove you can run a car on water alone, we can't prove ya can't but we do have the history of "not freakin possible" to back us up smile When a scientist has to prove something to change history, he does. But the stuff about running on water alone only proves you can set up a scene like an actor and run a car on gas for a video with an extra tank next to the engine. If a water ran solely on that little amount of water, make a scooter with no external shell. Just the engine and water tank, that is clear to show you pour water into it. If someone did this and there was video of the whole open plan of it running on JUST WATER then maybe we would have a better time believing you. So far we can call it a scam from common sense.

    1. baguiobizz profile image60
      baguiobizzposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You obviously do not understand how the thing works. This is the reason why i have a hard time believing in u. before you say anything, understand how the whole concept of it.

      1. thranax profile image60
        thranaxposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Why believe in a concept that isn't possible with our technology? There is a way to make a vehicle run with water, but it sure as heck isn't and adapter to replace gas. It would have to be an electric car that can boil water into steam and use steam power. No car can run on just water. It's truly not a good scam and I don't know how anyone falls for it.

        1. baguiobizz profile image60
          baguiobizzposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          How do know its impossible? Have you tried it? Im guessing no. its really hard to get your word for it coz you haven't tried it. Why don't you buy the manual and try it. It will prolly take you less than a week to put it all together. If you dont find any improvements, well then, get a refund. its a simple logic really. Your risk is nothing compared to you reward.

          1. thranax profile image60
            thranaxposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Trying hard, really hard to get someone to buy something that more then one person thinks its imposable is just adding to the fact that its a scam. Go to howstuffworks.com or actually, any automotive or how things works site, and see if you find anything on any possibility that it would work. When you buy something thats a scam you don't get a refund so it is a risk because all you get is some crappy plastic bottle and a load of bull Manuel.

            1. baguiobizz profile image60
              baguiobizzposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              HAHAHA.. you don't get a refund? hahaha.. thats hilarious. clickbank does the handling of the money. When you tell them you want a refund, they don't even ask why you want a refund. I have bought ebook from them, some of them i didn't like. Guess what? they gave me a refund. No questions asked. Why are you so scared of possibly saving hundreds of dollars, rather than wining like a little kid.

  35. 0
    oberbrecklingposted 8 years ago

    Oh my god I cant believe it you mean we can just make up lies about a subject and try to push it here on the hub wow who are these retards man I could hardly stand to read it

  36. Derrik profile image59
    Derrikposted 8 years ago

    What is going on here?  Why are any of us, ANY of us, actually supporting the notion of flagging someone simply because they like a particular idea or topic or agree with it?  I do not know if water4gas works or not.  I am not going to try it.  But a bunch of BABBLE about it being a scam DOES NOT MAKE IT SO.  And who are you, MISHA, to play JUDGE JURY AND EXECUTIONER just because you disagree with a topic?  EVEN if it is a scam, you have not proven it, and are VERY emotional about the whole thing.  You need to calm down, and stop for a moment and think of why you are here on HubPages.  It is not to blast topics out of the water or flag people, it is to write articles.  And if a particular topic disturbs you, IGNORE IT and move on with your purpose.  Even if this is a scam it does not matter- it is a valid topic to talk RATIONALLY about, and explore.  Perhaps PROOF will present itself that it is a scam, great.  Until then, you and everyone you seem to be gathering in your "anti water4gas ARMY", should coold down and re-evaluate why you are here in the first place.  Me?  I am going to go write an article on HORSES.  If you are not having fun and enjoying your writing and the writing of others you should go elsewhere.  DARKBOLT OUT!

    1. thranax profile image60
      thranaxposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I appreciate your ideas, but Misha is right. It is a scam clearly. The reason why he posted this is the reason why hes even posting in the Hubpages community, to HELP PEOPLE AVOID A SCAM. They really don't work. It isn't possible with what those sites offer, its just a flook to lose money. Misha tracks cars and I myself know quite a bit about an engine. If you even know how an engine works you can tell it can't run on water. Lol, water isn't even explosive, a engine in a car runs on a lot of small explosions. How would water model that into an explosion engine? It can't, thats basically it. That kills it there. Just minimal understanding of an engine will rule this out. Want to know more about engines? Check out howstuffworks.com and search a combustion engine.

  37. 0
    oberbrecklingposted 8 years ago

    Why are we upset and want to flag the hub well for starters he's trying to sell it and we care about the community here at hubpages and the folks that are here writing hubs do you know what happens when you suck water up into your engine LOL .It would be different if he was'nt selling it and if Im not mistaking that more or less what the link is 4 ~cool~cya!                        and besides if he isnt trying to sell it why push it so hard  is anybody out ramming horse article down everybodys throat lol Later

    1. thranax profile image60
      thranaxposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for the support to what I said Oberbreckling smile

  38. 0
    oberbrecklingposted 8 years ago


  39. soulsurfer profile image60
    soulsurferposted 8 years ago

    Hi Everybody,

    I'm new here.  I came to write a hub about hypermiling.  It's a subject I know quite a lot about, except I'm from Europe so I call it ecodriving.  Nobody else seems to have done a thorough job on the topic, so I started my first hub then followed a few links about related things which led me here.  I'm disappointed, but I guess not entirely surprised, to discover that discussion about what seems to me to be an extremely important topic has descending into yet another internet flame war.

    Here's my take:

    1) I have sucked water into my diesel engine through the air intake.  I drove over a bridge in the middle of the night unaware that the river beneath had swollen so much in a few hours that it was now flowing OVER the bridge.  The engine lasted long enough to get me off the bridge then stopped forever.

    2) I don't know how much you guys trust Wikipedia but here is an article about water Injection into internal combustion engines.  In the right circumstances (and in small amounts!) it can be quite beneficial.

    3) Here's another article from Wikipedia about internal combustion engines running on hydrogen..  Without a doubt it is possible to make hydrogen from water.

    4) Also without a doubt there are people on here trying to make a fast buck out of "Water for Gas" or whatever.  Is it all a scam? I don't know, I haven't tried it.  I do know that feeding water and/or hydrogen into a car engine is not necessarily a bad thing.

    5) I have bought some ebooks through clickbank.  When I asked for a refund for one that was full of cr@p the seller didn't reply to my email.  Clickbank did and gave me a prompt refund.

    6) One of those ebooks told me it is possible to earn some money on Hubpages by displayiing ads next to original and useful articles.  One of the reasons I am here is to discover if that ebook was telling me the truth.

    7) Does that make me a "scammer"?

    8) Any chance we can stop calling each other names, stop being distracted by fast buck merchants, and start having a nice chat about what we can individually do to save a few bucks on our gas bills and/or do our own little bit to help save the planet, if either or both of those things is something that is important to us?



  40. Paraglider profile image89
    Paragliderposted 8 years ago

    But why stop at water? Once the basic principle of circumventing the laws of Thermodynamics is established, there is no limit to what we can do. Here's my take, in a hub.

    Forget Water - My Car Runs On Nothing!

  41. DJ Funktual profile image85
    DJ Funktualposted 8 years ago

    Wow, that was an informative thread.  Thanks to Misha and to his opponents in this issue. 

    Since I have no interests in the world besides entertainment, I have no opinion on the subject but I do love the free flow of ideas expressed here.

    TRUE JOKE: someone asked me yesterday if I had a V6 or V8 engine for my Ford Explorer and I go uh...uh......it's Black.  All I ever know about my car is the color and where I parked it.

  42. marisuewrites profile image61
    marisuewritesposted 8 years ago

    DJ - No!!  Say it isn't so...I thot a guy and his truck were never parted!   too funny!!

    1. DJ Funktual profile image85
      DJ Funktualposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I never wanted a freakin' truck to begin but I need it to lug my equipment to gigs. 
      I had a Corolla and loved it but it got totaled over Christmas break.  Oh well. 
      Ya gotta have a truck in my biz.  Gas is killing me. 

      hell, I'd piss in the gas tank if I thought it would help.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Hey, with your blood chemistry, it probably would big_smile

  43. Louie Jerome profile image60
    Louie Jeromeposted 8 years ago

    I remember reading somewhere that a car can run on water but it takes so much water to make the gas needed that it isn't economical, or practical.

    1. Paraglider profile image89
      Paragliderposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      An engine can run on hydrogen and oxygen, but it takes more energy to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen than you can get back by burning it in the engine.

      Drop a rubber ball onto a concrete floor. It will bounce back to about 90% of its starting height, at best. Same idea.

  44. soulsurfer profile image60
    soulsurferposted 8 years ago

    M.B. - Having now had a look at some of the hubs on Misha's list I have to say that (IMHO) the marketing is way over the top, not to mention misleading.  In fact the "product" appears to be instructions on how to run a car mostly on regular gas with a bit of added hydrogen and oxygen, obtained from water by electrolysis.

    Louie - A variety of people have claimed to be able to power a car using only water.  The most famous is probably Stan Meyer.  Unfortunately as far as I am aware none of them have been able to drive such a vehicle to an independent test facility in order to have their claims verified.

    However quite a lot of cars have been powered by regular gas plus a bit of water.  They are mostly "performance" cars of one sort or another.  A notable production water injected saloon was the Saab 99 Turbo.


    1. JYOTI KOTHARI profile image75
      JYOTI KOTHARIposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Japan has recently launched a hydrogen car.I do not know the technology but assume that hydrogen is obtained by electrolysiis process of water.

      1. Paraglider profile image89
        Paragliderposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        The hydrogen may well be obtained by electrolysis of water, but not in the car. Hydrogen cars effectively run on bottled gas. Nothing magic there, just a different fuel that you buy from a hydrogen fuel station.

      2. soulsurfer profile image60
        soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Jyoti,

        The US has hydrogen cars too, and hydrogen "gas stations" as well.  Hot off the presses at The Washington Post - LA gas station gets hydrogen fuel pump

        The Chevy Equinox uses a fuel cell to generate electricity from the hydrogen though.  No internal combustion engine in sight.


  45. Shadesbreath profile image89
    Shadesbreathposted 8 years ago

    They may not all be scammers and greedy self-serving bastages.  Ignorance and gullibility do not a scammer make.  I know many sales people who can parrot exactly what they read in their product training manuals and do so regularly just as their employers or contractors have asked.  They are unthinking automatons echoing the company's pitch.  For most, they have little choice in the matter as they A) need to pay the bills, and B) don't know anything about the industry from whence their product comes.  This does not make them scammers; it merely makes them ill-informed, perhaps incurious, and in need of money.  (Someone can argue that these people should do the research and find out about what they sell, and perhaps they should, but I'm trying to keep this realistic on a broader human plane.)

    Some of these guys are surely scammers and evil exploiters destined for damnation or at least emotional destitude and loneliness as their years begin to wane.  But for the rest, well, perhaps they simply know not what they do.

  46. thranax profile image60
    thranaxposted 8 years ago

    Interesting, but still a car can't run on just water that isn't made for it. No stupid plastic adapter can make a combustion engine one that can run on sole hydrogen.

    1. CherylTheWriter profile image60
      CherylTheWriterposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I don't believe anyone is claiming that a car can be converted to run ONLY on water. In fact, on the Water4Gas website, the advertisers are very careful to claim that the 100% water-powered car is, with current technology, not possible. What they are advertising is that the device will increase the fuel efficiency of the average car or truck.

      Story here:

      My husband has been involved in researching the possibilities of high-mileage vehicles since before I met him over 20 years ago. He's also something of a "mad scientist," which is what his boss used to call him at the test engineering facility where he previously worked. (He's retired now.)

      Anyways, one day I popped the hood of the car to check the oil, and found what looked like a pickle or mayo jar, containing a clear fluid and a coil of wire, embedded amongst the mechanical stuff therein. When I asked my husband what the hey it was (with fears of explosions, turmoil, and showers of falling automotive and human body parts running through my mind) he hastily assured me it was nothing to worry about, just something he was trying out. Needless to say, I wasn't entirely reassured, but I continued to drive the car, at that time our only means of transport, and which suddenly needed fewer stops at the gas station to get me wherever I was going.

      I don't have numbers, being neither particularly mathematical nor technological. But that car, a 1979 Mercedes 450 SE (eight cylinder, 350-liter engine), got better gas mileage and ran more cleanly with that little jar under the hood than without it. It has since been sold.

      Just my two cents' worth. Not scientific, just anecdotal evidence. But fact.

  47. Shadesbreath profile image89
    Shadesbreathposted 8 years ago

    Well, just because I can't help myself, and to catch any who may have skimmed or not read mine or several other folks articles on how this "technology" is a total snakeoil sham...

    You have to burn gasoline to run your car before your car can start making hydrogen (or HHM or Browns gas <yawn>).  So, you have to burn gasoline FIRST before you get any hydrogen.  There's a whole bunch of other physics and chemistry at work after that that totally destroys this absurd idea that I won't bore you with, there's lots of hubs out there explaining the actual math in detail.  I've worked in the automotive field for 22 years and the last decade or so for an automotive chemical company specializing in fuel systems and related additives.  Your car isn't designed to run on any hydrogen at all (you'll roast rings and all kinds of metal stuff... hydrogen burns at twice the ignition point temps of cheap gasoline and at least 25 degrees higher than super mega quality formulations which you'll never buy).  The systems are a sham, you can't burn fuel to make fuel (diminishing returns). 

    So while I am glad to see people defending the freedom to defraud the public via free speech, I just hope nobody buys this crap and ruins their car (on top of throwing money away).

    1. soulsurfer profile image60
      soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Shadesbreath,

      You're certainly not boring me.  I love a lively debate, and I really enjoy math too.

      Got any links for these hubs?


    2. Mark Bennett profile image60
      Mark Bennettposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I suspect that the problem here at HubPages is not so much that people are actually doing this stuff to their cars - it's the people who have found that "Water 4 Gas" e-Books are selling really well as oil prices continue to climb.

      The average American doesn't know enough chemistry to sort fact from fiction, and at least half of the people who buy e-Books don't know they can get a refund, don't know how, or can't be bothered.

      So these e-Books look good to the army of "affiliate marketers" who are desperately trying to make their first 50c online, after having spent $532.90 so far on "this will help you to get rich" products that fundamentally say "spam HubPages and buyers will flock to your site".

      OK, perhaps I exaggerate slightly.

      But still, the problem is that the purveyors of these e-Books are making money, and until that stops, we will have ever-increasing numbers of Hubs about the bloody topic.

      1. soulsurfer profile image60
        soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        The trouble is whilst these guys and gals play the numbers game to make money from the 1% of people who are taken in or at least intrigued by their snake oil the other 99% of folk take such offence that they proceed to make the invalid assumption that anything which claims to improve your fuel consumption must be a "Scam".  This assumption is not only erroneous, but positively dangerous.

  48. 60
    MB Writerposted 8 years ago

    Whether you think Water 4 Gas is the greatest thing ever or whether you think its all just a big scam I encourage you to come and share your views on my Hub page. I have tried to just present the fact and would like it to express both sides of the story. I promise not to delete any comments (except those that are highly offensive) Both sides will get a chance to view their opinions so long as they are not overly critical of others. It's called "Water 4 Gas - Both Sides of the Story" and you can find it at http://hubpages.com/hub/Water-4-Gas.

    1. CherylTheWriter profile image60
      CherylTheWriterposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Have you been deleted?

    2. soulsurfer profile image60
      soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Mandy,

      I tried following that link but it didn't work.  I did wonder if your new hub had been deleted by the powers that be but after a bit of exploring I found it.  It seems you have a small typo.

      I also noted that for some strange reason you have a reference on there to the new "hydrogen gas station" in LA.  Perhaps you wouldn't mind crediting me with digging that bit of information out for you?

      A link to my new EcoModding hub would suffice.

      Thanks very much in anticipation,


    3. Paraglider profile image89
      Paragliderposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You've included a period in the url. That's why it doesn't work.
      I've added a comment to restore some balance to your 'balanced' article. If you are going to present a list of 'facts', you have to be careful to include the important ones:

      It takes more energy to dissociate water into hydrogen and oxygen than you get back by recombining hydrogen and oxygen into water.

      Turning cold water into hot water vapour or steam (which is the net result of the process) takes energy.

      The only source of energy in a car is the fuel in the tank.

      1. soulsurfer profile image60
        soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Paraglider,

        I agree with you

        I agree with you

        I mostly agree with you.  If you have created some hydrogen, that does act as a fuel though.

        I respect your knowledge of Physics.  Would you mind doing a peer review of my argument over on my EcoModding hub?

        I haven't got on to hydrogen yet (watch that space) but I do cover water injection.  I reveal where you can now download a previously classified research report from the NASA web site that says that adding a bit of water to the gas/air mixture going into an internal combustion engine does reduce fuel consumption..

        One point you need to consider in your argument is that if you can burn more gas then you get more energy.

        Jim .

        1. Paraglider profile image89
          Paragliderposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Sure, if you create (actually liberate) hydrogen, then yes, it's a fuel, but you've already used more than its calorific value in liberating it.

          I've never denied that tinkering with the mixture could, in some cases, increase efficiency. It could also wreck your engine!

          I'll take a look at your hub now smile

  49. 60
    MB Writerposted 8 years ago

    Paraglider: Thank you for your comments on my hub. I was wanting exactly that - others to come along and help add facts that brought a balance, please feel free to add more if you wish (and anyone else that may have facts in opposition are welcome to add these too).

    Soulsurfer: I actually did not get the information from your hub but why not add a comment about your hub to my hub and get people to visit that way?

    1. soulsurfer profile image60
      soulsurferposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Mandy,

      The information isn't on any of my hubs.  I guess you can't read have them.  Call me an old cynic if you will, but I felt that since you are evidently an avid reader of this very topic the probability was high that you read my comment posted here last Friday, particularly since yours was the next comment.  My apologies for having made an overly hasty judgement..

      Since you are obviously a hydrogen expert maybe you wouldn't mind popping on over to my hub to help me out with the thorny question of hydrogen injection?


  50. Chairman Matt profile image60
    Chairman Mattposted 8 years ago

    While you're absolutely right about slowing down saving gas, I'm intrigued by what I've read about the Water 2 Gas system.

    Biggest problem seems to be what Ron Paul had working against him- a bunch of overzealous supporters using promotional tactics that are or smack of spam and scam. It did take some research to find that this is a legitimate offer for a $47 book, and there is at least one club with over 100 conversions that gets together in L.A.

    They even had a picture of all the components and described the theory. The big potential for screwups is supposed to be the placement of the injector where you feed the brown gas into your engine's air intake manifold.

    To summarize, this is just another $47 ebook that may or may not ever get used, like a diet book. Whether or not it's a scam depends on who's selling that book, in my opinion.

    1. Chairman Matt profile image60
      Chairman Mattposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      My apologies, everybody. I knew better than jump in without reading the entire thread. I'd like to know why Washington's pushing hydrogen in the first place. I'd also like to recommend a dvd called "Who Killed The Electric Car?".  They were building electric cars almost 90 years ago, for crying out loud.