Not sure where such a request should go, but I think this is the best place to post it. Hope it does not violate HP policies - if it does, just delete it, please
English is not my native language, but I work for American audience - so, I need a writer. I need a person for whom American is a native language.
I need articles of 800 words on average on the topics I give you. I may or may not give you ideas. If I do, I expect you at least not to contradict to my idea. I give you keywords that have to be included, too. And I expect all of them to be included. I usually don't have strict deadlines, but if I do, I expect you to have the article finished by deadline.
Since I am posting this request here, I expect people who have quality hubs to contact me. Please don't bother if you don't have hubs.
I don't need hundreds of articles, we are talking probably a handful per month or so. Don't expect to make a living out of it I would like to set initial price at 1 cent per word, and this is negotiable after we start working together. In other words, if I like what you are doing, I may pay you more.
You give up all your rights to those article written for me. I can publish them anywhere I want under any name I want and make to them any changes I want. You never publicly or privately claim the authorship on those articles.
Those interested, please contact me through my profile.
Thank you, Misha
How many $8 articles do you need???? And for how long???? DJ
I can do the work at $16 per 800 words-that is $0.20 per word. My work is of high quality and have a lot experience in writing in various niches
i am freelance content writer. i am Specialized in Website Content, Press Releases, Articles, Blogs,
Reports, Website Articles, SEO content, Keyword Rich Content, Search
Engine Optimization (SEO), website content, etc. .
i am interested to work with you.
Misha, if you don't get a native American, you may always fall back on me.
Thanks Kenny, if I don't get someone from here, I'll get back to you
Though I don't see anything wrong with your English. Maybe all you need is an editor, not writer.
Kenny, my "international" English is fine in a sense that I can more or less get my message across on forums. In order to retain person's attention, though, I have to speak their language... If I come to Russian site and see semi-literate copy, I just move on. I don't want my American readers to do the same
And did you know I am lazy? I would rather have somebody writing for me
I just sent you a private email....I guess you need a few a month or something....anyways, you can get back to me if you want after the email..
Hi my sweetheart
Right now I have a couple of ideas - which translates into a couple of articles. And ideas come regularly. I think we are talking several articles per month for indefinite duration - until we call it a divorce, if ever
I'm heading to bed and already shut down my mail. I will read it tomorrow, OK? Sweet dreams
I am an English Teacher, as a second language, and a life long student so I write on a variety of subjects. I am creating a new website myself, just the basic structure up now, but would be interested in talking to you tomorrow.
My first flagship hub can be found here:
<snipped link - do not promote your hubs in the forums>
I'd be pleased to help you with this also, if you'd have me.
Well you can find lots of writers on www.guru.com. Alternatively, you can also use craigslist and there will be a whole bunch of writers dropping their resumes. There are lots of good writers on craigslist.
Alternatively, you can use writing services company. These people are good because they manage a writer for you and they are sort of cheap. They ensure timely delivery and safeguard you against runaways.
I dont know if hubpages.com bans me if i provide a list here. Anyways, if this is against the rules. Please delete it.
Here is a list:
Iwebcontent.com has many other things to offer. So check out all of these and contact the one that fit your need.
Hope this helps.
Rahail Salamat ( a new hubber)
Thanks, I got an overwhelming response I don't think I need more writers - may be next time
Misha, the fact that you're overwhelmed says something.
I can understand someone offering to sell articles for $8 a piece to build up their reputation and portfolio as a writer. But to sell all rights to an article for that price, and not even be credited as the author - that's giving it away.
It's a free market - I don't force anybody. And people find this price fair... Probably we have bigger supply of writers than demand for them. At least on Hubpages
Misha, I didn't mean anything against you! People have a choice whether to work for that money or not. I'm just surprised so many are willing to do so. It's not so long ago, out in the print world, when you'd be insulted to get $25 for an article.
I agree with Marisa. People in the United States cannot survive on one cent a word. They work themselves to death for pocket change. I suppose there are a lot of writers out there who don't know any better. People do have a choice, but more should choose not to work for slave wages. Perhaps then, people would begin to pay what writers are worth.
No sweat Marisa, I did not take it personally at all If I really sounded like that, it should be my ESL then...
Well, times are changing, and now 1 cent a word seems to be a market reference point. You can actually have an article written for half of that - but this would be done by some ESL person like me and would hardly be readable
Misha, if 1 cent a word is the going rate, no wonder it's so hard to make money writing!
Let's say it takes half an hour (for it to be a good article, I'd have thought an hour was more like it). So that's $16 an hour. That's what a mail clerk or an office junior would earn in Australia. Even a cleaner would get at least $13 an hour. Writing doesn't just take skill, it takes talent - so at this level, it's seriously undervalued!
I know it's market forces - in developing countries, where the hourly rate for "real" jobs is lower and work is hard to get, people probably think $16 an hour is good money.
Sadly Marisa, in Canada $16/hour is a good wage. I really miss the financial advantages of living in Oz
At least you feel valued by employers there who pay a decent salary. Here everyone wants to pay nothing and expect everything. That's why I hope to be working strictly for myself soon.
For every mail worker and office drone job in the US, there are 400 nearly suicidal recent-college grads tearing and clawing at each other for the opportunity to make minimum wage with no benefits.
I won't normally do $1 for 100 words, but sometimes you need to suck it up and pound out copy en masse as quick as possible to eat. It sucks and it sucks even more that there are people out there in India that will do it for even less.
I consider myself lucky to be able to get paid more than that for my work, but the market sucks for everyone, not just writers.
Len is so right here!
I laugh when I read stuff along the lines of . . . well, a so-and-so workers makes THIS much . . .!
Please! I have no idea about Australia but America has something called minimum wage and it is NOT in the souble digits! Additionally, America has a horde of illegal aliens making ALL jobs worth less an hour!
I DO agree in theory that writers can be underpaid but here in the real world life just plain "ain't fair"!
Misha - for once I disagree with you.
There are certainly people offering jobs for 1 cent a word or less ( as little as 10 cents for 400 words), but as to that being the industry rate - not true. I get as much as 20 cents a word depending on the subject. But these jobs tend not to pay per word.
And I can, if anyone wants it - point them at a job that pays $12 per 400 words - it's SEO writing and I hate doing it.
As far as I am concerned, 1 cent a word is bare minimum and the only people likely to be interested are newbies
LOL absolutely disagree On all accounts. We are on the different side of a fence with you here - you are searching to earn more, I am searching to pay less
You personally do not just write - you do a bunch of other things on top of writing - and that is why they don't pay you by word.
Not sure what exactly you mean by SEO writing - if keyword stuffing, than it is obsolete long ago, and only - umm - people not knowing SEO will pay you that price for this.
There are professionals who write for 1 cent a word or even less. Sometimes it is accompanied by relatively low monthly fee (like $10-20), sometimes not... I am not going to disclose all my files, but here is one example: http://www.need-an-article.com/ I did not try it myself yet, but I saw a bunch of good reviews of them.
When we start talking about Hubpages - where I placed this request - people here are all or almost all amature writers, however... In other words - newbies to the world of professional writing... And what vast majority of them make here is way less than 1 cent a word...
Yes, but they are either writing for their own satisfaction, or they have aspirations to make a living from writing one day.
For those who hope to make a living from writing, HubPages (and other similar sites) are a way of building a portfolio of work. They can also learn what works by watching how their articles perform and tweaking them. So in their eyes, writing in this environment is an apprenticeship and an investment for the future.
However, your offer has none of those advantages. You've stated that the writers can't claim their articles as theirs either publicly OR privately, so they can't mention the articles as part of their portfolio, and they won't know where they end up, so they can't learn anything from how they perform.
Sorry, I somehow missed your post and did not reply before.
Well, absolutely, I agree to what you are saying about the benefits of writing here. The point is - I found enough people who are willing to complement these benefits with a little side income. And, but the way, to receive on job training on how to write for internet. I don't see anything wrong with that really.
Oh dear Misha... sorry, I have to correct you on a few points here.
Wherever you get the idea that $0.01 per word is an industry standard I have no idea, but you're way off. People that write for $0.01 per word are generally newbie writers who're both unsure of their true value in the freelance writing world, as well as possibly lacking confidence in their ability to charge more. This isn't a slant on these writers - after all, everyone has to start somewhere - but to say it's an industry standard? You need to check your sources, Misha.
Secondly, "SEO writing is... keyword stuffing... is obsolete long ago"? I'm curious as to how well your website (if you have one) is placing on the major search engines. SEO content is a crucial part of high rankings, along with targeted meta tags, URL, quality back-link's and blogging. An SEO-enhanced website with unique and quality content will ALWAYS sit higher than a similar website without SEO content. So, again, quite a bold statement to say it's redundant, and one that would have numerous companies, business professionals, entrepreneurs, Internet marketers and more strongly disagree with you on.
I could tell you some stories about that writing site you quoted you had found, but personally I feel it would just be a waste of time. You're obviously of the opinion that writers don't deserve to get paid what they're worth (which, as a bare minimum, should be $0.30 per word upwards), yet you're pretty much saying that you can't do your project without quality English-speaking writers? Bit of a contradictory conundrum, don't you think?
And I think you'd be very surprised to know that HubPages is NOT simply a place for "amateur writers who... make less than $0.01 per word" - in fact, some of the best writers around can be found on here. To make a comment like that is pretty assumptive and derogatory, in my opinion.
There's an old saying that "You get what you pay for" - sometimes that can be truer than you think.
I would be interested in the SEO job. I find things like that a challenge. Do they usually require a lot of writing?
I haven't written SEO before but I understand the whole concept.
Now I want to cry, Mark. I totally wanted to do it for that price because Misha is my inter-buddy.
Like I said - there are any number of people offering jobs that pay this low. Even lower. And there are any number of people accepting these sort of rates. When I first started, I was tempted
By SEO writing - I mean a company that is looking for articles to submit to directories that need a particular keyword in a particular density in the article, which they then add their clients links to and submit it to a directory. They pay $12 for 400 words - 3 cents a word I tried it - but I personally hated the constriction of doing that. So I stopped.
And yes, we are looking at this from a completely different perspective. I am looking at it from the perspective of making a living writing. You are looking at it from the perspective of making as much money as possible by paying as little as possible for good quality, unique content.
Having said that, I have just employed 2 writers to work for me and I refuse to pay them this little.
It's not often we disagree, but on this......
Am experience in writing can you enlist me in your team
but unfortunately you do not have critical reading skills as this thread and the related offer ended 2 years ago!
Send me some samples (of which I reserve the right to use any way I see fit) and I will match Mishas offer of .005 cents per word.
Get at me through my profile
Misha, as I've said before, I'm not suggesting you are doing anything wrong. If there are people out there prepared to work for that money, why shouldn't you take advantage of it. I'm just saying that for most writers in the developed world, selling all rights to one's work, anonymously, for 1 cent a word is a crazy thing to do, IMO.
go to digital point forum and you can find someone there that will write a good article for 5 bucks
LOL what's the need to ressurect ancient threads?
There are plenty of places to find a writer, including digital point forum. However, I wanted a writer from Hubpages When you spend some time here, you'll understand why.
There are NOT 'professionals' who write for 1 cent a word. Anyone who would write for that much money is either limited in skill or knowledge of writing - or have absolutely no other choice. When marketers or anyone trying to make a living FROM the writing rely on writing like this...well, the results are usually less than promising.
ESPECIALLY when it comes to selling all rights.
However, when you make a WISE investment in a writer who was actually born with talent and who has worked to hone those talents and add absolutely necessary SEO skills - you may just be surprised at how well your campaigns will go.
Anyone can put a few sentences together on a page but that does not make them a writer. This is similar to the way anyone can SOUND like they have knowledge and authority but in reality - what they are saying is a fat load of bull.
No offense to you at all - but I strongly disagree with you and it's sad to know many people are willing to write for that amount. Equally sad to know that others purchase low quality writing and expect their campaigns to be successful.
Couldn't have said it better myself, Sam - and my clients would attest to that as well. Business by its nature is a results-driven industry and to get the best results you need to use the best resources.
That's a great analogy you use about anyone can throw words on a page, or make claims regarding their expertise. The real proof is in the quality of these words and claims - for example, how many "professional $0.01 per word writers" would know how to use latent or organic keywords in their content and still make it sound like a naturally flowing piece of writing? Or how many of the kind of writers that Misha wants to use could look at the piece they're writing and the site they're writing for, and come up with the most relevant keywords? Again, no disrespect to the Hubbers that have said they're interested in Misha's project - just a statement of fact.
Which raises another point - Misha, you mention that you will provide the keywords for your articles. I assume that you have done your target research and you're providing the quality organic keywords relevant to your project? Or do you just have a bunch of keywords and you're hoping that some might work? Because it's not just a matter of putting keywords into your articles - they need to be targeted, run in conjunction with your site's relevance and , of course, make sense in their placement.
Of course, being a "professional writer hirer", you'll know that, right...?
And they are clearly not aware of Misha's skills in other directions.
smallbizpro- (Off-putting name by the way - makes you sound like just another spammer) - If I want keyword research advice - Misha and Eric Graudins are who I will ask.
I'm not sure how "smallbizpro" would make me sound like another spammer - bit of a wide-reaching statement there, Mark. Besides, if you take the time to check out my Hubs, you may see why I chose the nickname... ;-)
With regards to wanting keyword research advice and getting it from Misha - makes me wonder if Misha is doing the research, or paying pennies to other people (as he's offering here) to come up with it for him.
Anyone that says they won't pay more than $0.01 doesn't realize the value of keyword research (IMO) or else he wouldn't pay such low fees. Nor would he suggest that SEO writing is obsolete.
Frankly, if I were to need keyword research (which fortunately I don't - myself and my business partners are fine in this area, as our client results show) the last place I would look is to someone who values professional and skilled work so poorly.
Eric Graudin, on the other hand, I would agree is a good reference point.
Lol, yeah, I know - but people that value writing so poorly annoy me and are the reason why so many good writers are held back, as they feel that's all they're worth when their work would definitely suggest otherwise. Especially when many of the statements that Misha made are just plain crazy... ;-)
I have to say...I'm actually a bit offended myself that a fellow hubber would have the audacity to say that the writers here are worth no more than a penny a word - yet they are so desirable as writers for hire.
To me, that just makes no sense!!!
That means you would have to write 600 words an hour just to make minimum wage - and that's not including research time, formatting, searching for media, or anything else that goes into writing a quality piece!
That may be fine for part-time work or a side job - but hardly qualifies as compensation for a professional!!! At least imo! I would personally be embarrassed to make an offer like that to a writer that I thought had talent -- sort of a slap in the face isn't it? "Wow -- you're a great writer! I'd love to hire you -- you do charity work, right?!"
And it is definitely an insult to the good writers out there that haven't yet realized their worth and the possibilities of making AT LEAST 20 times that $5 an article bs that's plagued the internet.
Quality content is the key to making it online -- why would anyone believe that it can be snapped up for bargain basement prices if its the key to making a six-figure income??!!
I am always suspicious of people with names like smallbizpro or googleadsensemaster or whatever. I find they rarely live up to their chosen name. That is not to say you don't live up to yours, but many of them do not. My personal choice is to almost always avoid these people. Like I said, to me, it makes you sound like a spammer. But that is just my personal opinion. No offense intended.
I have looked at your hubs and also at the site you claim that 4 people are making $100,000 a year each from - Which I do find hard to believe of an unranked site that has been operating for 3 months.
I have asked and taken Misha's advice on keyword research and SEO and have found it to be useful, good quality advice. The same with Eric. I am not much good at that stuff myself - I am a writer rather than an internet marketer. The question of how much writers are worth paying is an area he and I disagree on, but as you resurrected this long-dead thread and I know he is AWOL for a while, I spoke up for him
No offense taken Mark - as I say, it just seemed a bit of a wide-reaching statement. On the other hand, GoogleAdsenseMaster does seem to appear like it should come with a spam warning... ;-)
With regards "the site that you claim that 4 people are making a $100,000 a year each from - Which I do find hard to believe of an unranked site that has been operating for 3 months." - that's a slight mis-quote there. The actual quote I made is:
"Or start your own writing business - I have two (one owned, more towards the PR side of things, and one co-owned, offering high end copywriting). All of us are looking at 6-figure incomes this year."
This doesn't infer that we are all making $100,000 each from one site - instead, it states that we are all looking at 6-figure incomes. Mine is combined with my PR site as well as the co-owned copywriting site, and the freelance work I do outside of these companies writing for magazines. I know my colleagues are making an excellent income as well, again both from our copywriting service as well as their individual businesses.
Also, the site isn't unranked - we already have a Google PageRank of 3 and the #1 spots for at least three of our keyword niches, not to mention Top 10 ranking for several other keyword phrases.
The point I was making on both this forum topic, and the post you mentioned, is that it is possible to make a strong income as a writer. Magazine writing pays $1.00 per word, and copywriting services average out at around $0.30 per word. Whereas Misha's fee structure would make burger flippers feel like millionaires (no offense to the fine burger flippers of the world).
It's good that you want to defend your friend/colleague, and is an approach that I will always take with my friends and colleagues as well. Although personally I wouldn't "speak up" for someone offering such funny rates... ;-)
Actually, just to avoid confusion, here's the full quote:
While that's true about a lot of them, you'll find that Elance is one of the best out there. If you're a strong RELIABLE writer and you know how to work the bidding system, you can easily make $50,000 - $60,000 per year just through Elance alone. Top that off by freelance writing outside and you'll make an excellent income.
Or start your own writing business - I have two (one owned, more towards the PR side of things, and one co-owned, offering high end copywriting). All of us are looking at 6-figure incomes this year."
As I say, it's a combination of hard work and reliability, but it is possible.
Well, as I said, it is an area he and I disagree on. I know you can make a good income writing - that is what I do for a living. As to magazines paying $1.00 a word, sure some of them do, but those gigs are pretty hard to come by, and usually you need a good established reputation or be prepared to submit work for approval - which doesn't always result in a sale, and can bring the average per-word rate down. And yes, I have written offline as well. I usually charge €.0.35 a word, and will only submit if I am guaranteed publication.
But, I see the demise of the paper printed publications in the stars and concentrate on on-line venues. They are busy shooting themselves in the foot as we speak. Every magazine and newspaper I see is filling their articles with things about websites and it is rare to see anything without a website address attached to it.
I must have mis-read your reference. Sorry, the "All of us are looking at 6-figure incomes," sounded as though you were making $400K from that site alone.
It is nice to see someone sticking up for higher rates for writers. It took me some time before I reached the point where I was making a comfortable living, and the first six months were not good
I would still lose the smallbizpro handle though
Mark - I think this is precisely the reason that many people are offended by those who refuse to pay reasonable rates to writers. If you're going to use the piece to make money for yourself...why not pay what it's worth, right?
I know you said you disagree with the low rates too, so I won't beat it to death but you can see why it is very annoying...
Yes, I agree that the magazines are pretty hard to get into (especially the $1.00 per word ones). It does take time - I often recommend that people start with local newspapers, magazines, etc, to build a decent portfolio to show the editors of these magazines. If you're an expert in your field that also helps, and sometimes this expertise can come from the strangest places. Say you're a mother who writes - why not submit queries to Parenting magazine, or Mum and Toddler? You know your subject anyways
Lol, I can see why it'd be hard to believe that a site could make its writers $400k after just three months - that WOULD be nice, haha! But it's doing pretty well for such a new company and we're optimistic about the future.
Good to hear that you're getting tha pay you deserve - I RSS'd your blog and I've found it to be quite an interesting read!
And I'll have a think about the "smallbizpro" tag, hehe...
Well, I just have a little fun on my personal blog. You are not allowed to use the "F" word or show photos of female nipples at hubpages, (male nipples are OK) so I feel a bit constricted sometimes
I have written about making money blogging and writing there though.
My main blog is this luxury real estate blog and I also write a property investment blog and a cubicle humor blog.
Won't even talk about the failed ones. Although - if you are in the market for a football blog, I have one for sale
We could hold a referendum about the name - seems that's how we do things in England at the moment
you need to ask about ,
i want articles.
thread going without you.
i are intresstid oso... yo can email me @ my place an i get mail when moffer is not omline. Enrish easy for me mr!
How muca yo pay for nude picture of rare goldfrish?
Thann yo to get mea job so greet mr!
I have a a a aa a aaaa aaaaa god aaa ke yw ord f or .016 so far!
Am in interested to work in your project... I have 3 year experience in writing and i am okie with your offer... Kindly mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org
Does anyone really believe that Misha or anyone else would accept an artlcle that could not earn many times one cent per word?
I am not blaming Misha for offering this, but I think you would have to have pretty low expectations to accept it.
I am going to guess that I have written three million words on-line. If i had sold them at that rate, I would have had $30,000.00 for my work. I have easily made three times that or more and they go on earning every single day.
I think selling writing at that pay is foolish.
Its true..anytime we offer to buy writing its because WE can earn from those topics.
That doesnt mean the potential writer has the required publishing resources, web development skills, promotional abilities, keyword research and competitive analysis abilities and the PATIENCE to earn from that content at the level you suggest is possible.
Not everyone can wear every hat.
The supposed need for SEO knowledge is vastly overrated and the technical hurdles are very few.
You do not need to competively analyze anything - I never have. Nor have I ever researched a single keyword. I am not saying that people do not make money that way; I am saying a writer does not need to do those things to make money.
Patience is the only missing ingredient. We agree on that.
well, If you follow the HP forums and the multitudes of great writers who make nothing and/or have clients in the hosting industry you may not be so nonchalant about the effects of analyzing and technical competence.
I also think they are easy skills to learn, but we are not all wired the same.
When we say "make money" ..thats a rather broad concept too, I believe you have been writing online for 10 years + ? 10k a year doesnt do anything for me. You have made coffee money, some of us are capable of making House money.
1k a month in adsense is an awesome accomplishment though and I believe your sites relate to your consulting businesses? So they are dual purposed and you most likely received the lions share of your returns via that route ..when you are searching for true passive or "set and forget" income .. all those things that you havent done and dont put stock in become much more important.
I over analyze everything and make a living online. I currently have a set of 300 word articles that IF (its a big IF) had a 10 year lifetime would exceed 90k on their own at their current income rates
@Pcunix I was thinking the same thing pcunix, the value of ones work worth much more.
Thank you Sunforged
Everybody, I do NOT need a writer nowadays, I have more than enough, even at a lower rate.
$10k+ a year is a lot of coffee. More importantly, that is just extra money as, as noted, my main income comes from consulting.
Sorry, i got distracted and had to cut off suddenky.
No, I have been writing on the Internet since 1991, but only started with Adsense in 2003, so it is only seven years.
But thats not the point. The point is that if I were writing full time instead of doing what I do, I might have written 15 or 20 million words and, all else being equal, might have earned 5 or 6 times as much - without any analysis or research.
Or maybe not. But if I sold all that at a penny a word, I wouldn't have very much to show for it, would I?
Lets say I could crank out 4,000 words a day. That isn't easy, but you could do it. $40 a day? And the minute you stop, nothing. Put a years worth of that effort here or almost anywhere and you might go on earning for years and years.
I think you over exaggerate the value of your SEO work. Not that it may not help you; I am sure that is one way to make a living - though I am also aware that Google is working in areas that coukd eliminate any value from keyword research, so I am not sure it will be a lasting business model. We will see.
Again, willing seller, willing buyer. I have no beef. I just think the seller is leaving money on the table.
By the way, I allow guest posts at my site. I pay the authors half of the revenues from their pages. The good ones make a lot more than a penny a word, again without any research or analysis. The not so good ones do not, of course, but Misha would not have bought their stuff anyway.
Im not an advocate of writing for pennies, I frequently write about many ways how a writer can make good return for their work, without any technical or SEO expertise.
Regardless of what Google claims or what your knowledge is of - search engines work on certain parameters, SEO will always exist to find and react to those parameters.
Keyword Research is never going anywhere - thats obtuse - ad revenue makes the net go round and as long as google has a revenue model that includes keyword bidding - keyword research will be there.
Quality controls may increase, but quality is a very subjective term and its not something a robot will ever understand.
Your an outlier not a common experience , Your work is well aged within a niche topic and perhaps you are even an authority within your field. Your a pioneer.
You really think little Sally Sallyson can go write 3 million words on Unix and technological applications and see even a 10th of your returns - in the present age of the Internet?
Think what you like - I would have to disagree.
oh..and I couldnt crank out 4000 words a day - i wish i could
i really do!
4,000 words a day is tough to sustain. I have done it, but it is real work, and that is my point exactly. Tough to earn a living at those rates.
Keywords: If perfected, LSI would eliminate the value of keyword research because Google will give proper results even if the words never appear in the page.
You may believe that computer anaysis will never get that good, but Analytics helps them there also and at better than 50% usage among the top 100K sites, Google is learning a lot about what pages are really about.
Neophyte success. No, Sally Sallyson can't. But she might be able to in some other niche. If she can't write well in any genre, then Misha isn't buying her stuff, right? If he will buy it, I think she can do far better in her own. Not for one post, of course. But for a hundred or a thousand? Yes, I think she can.
And she can start by reading some of your hubs :-)
"Keywords: If perfected, LSI would eliminate the value of keyword research because Google will give proper results even if the words never appear in the page"
LSI can change the shape of how our works are ranked - but keyword research wont lose viability, a high paying heavily trafficked niche is still found by keyword research.
The SEO writers/sites who focused on keyword density and were worried about keyword confusion will be screwed by a working LSI system - rightfully so - Wouldnt effect me as those were not parameters i ever pursued.
But thats not the heart of SEO - SEO is focused on user experience and catering to indexing/ranking requirements, if ranking requirements change, the industry changes.
There are a lot of flash in the pan seo methods that will lose their effectiveness - but they were probably gimmicks anyway
You are missing the point. It isn't going to help you to find the niche becausd your found search phrase will lead right to everyone elses hubs. They don't need to know the magic words - they were already getting the traffic and will continue to get it.
At absolute perfection of indexing, all SEO has no value. Not just the gimmicks, ALL of it. All that matters then is the content and nothing else. We may not get there for years, but that is the future. No value to SEO.
I am missing the point then.
Search engine uses weighted factors to rank - SEO reacts to weighted factors.
I dont see how LSI changes that.
If I want to rank for "red robin nests"
Then LSI may rank "(carmine/crimson/cherry) robin nests" equally w/o giving a stronger weight to my exact keyword match.
Then other factors come into play as to what will return - there is no way around that. How could there be?
The more specific the topic the less LSI can change the return anyway.
What am I missing? I do want to know.
and the keyword research I refer to is from the advertising and revenue end - even if keyword research suddenly couldnt effect ranking it would still identify profitable terms and niches.
LSI or not - "Free Plastic Widgets" does not equal "priceless Artifact for Sale"
( I do understand LSI, its already a ranking factor, particularly in anchor text - my example is simple but I think it gets the point across)
I may have written 4k in forum posts today!
Perfect indexing does not exist yet and may never exist.
But in such a world, you cannot rank for " red robin nests" unless you have provided the answer to whatever data the searcher is seeking and if you have provided the answer, that is all you need.
Imagine that I have perfect knowledge of all sites. You say "red robin nests". I say "What about them? I have pictures. I can tell you about construction, location, length of habitation.. I have statistical data from a study. I have a poem and a few amusing stories. Oh, and some drawings - watercolors or pen and ink."
So then you tell me more about what you want - Google!'s Wonder Wheel on steroids. Once I understand what you need, I give it to you. Which means that Sally Sallyson's drawing can get to you even though it never could today, because Sally didn't even know she had sketched a red robin's nest. But I knew, because I know what a drawing of that nest looks like.
Ask Mark Knowles, we had pretty much the same perpetual debate on the topic of SEO a couple of years ago. Since then he saw the light and never looked back, in fact as far as I know he recently started his very own SEO company
Eventually you will get an enlightenment Pcunix, don't worry
To everybody who contacted me about the job:
Thank you very much - but I am very sorry, I don't need a writer any more. This thread was opened TWO years ago.
It isn't a debate. It is reality. The world is going to change. It is already starting, and I think it cannot change fast enough.
You won't like many of the changes because they could hurt your business model. However, Google's desire is to provide the best search results regardless of the artificial influences that still skew those results today.
How closely they can approach that goal remains to be seen, but their intent is no secret. You can deny it all you want, but that will not change reality.
But - the operative words here are "going to change."
Myself - I took what I learned from Misha to heart and combine the two approaches - I create the best content I can, and then promote the crap out of it.
So - if all that promotional stuff stops working - I will be happy - because my content is usually the best on a given subject (most of the time) so I will just save myself a bunch of money until the next way of cheating the system comes around. Then I will do that instead.
If your content is good - you have nothing to worry about - other than the fact that you have not been getting the traffic you deserve for the last ten years and maybe you do not have the money to promote it?
Either way - I am happy, and will be loving it when google finally get the best content to the top of the pile, because I have spent years creating good content that does not get viewed. Loving it.
Is changing. Is changing now. Will change more in the future.
But we are getting away from what started this conversation, which is Sally Sallyson and her choice to sell content to someone like Misha for one cent per word. I say that if Sally is planning to do this as a source of income, she is a fool to sell it. She should put it here or, if she is writing in a tightly focused niche and can fill that niche with content, she should start her own site.
In either case, she will need promotion and patience, but she will end up making more money than she would selling at 1 cent per word.
Consider 200 500 word articles. That's $1,000 from our fictional "Misha". Not worth the effort, frankly. Too little pay for too much work.
Let's give them a life of five years. It could be longer, of course - I have much older stuff still earning. But we'll say five years.
Each article needs to earn more than $1.00 per year to beat selling it. Eight cents per month!
She is very foolish to sell.
Not if she needs the money today she is not.
I don't know how long it takes you to write 200 quality articles, but most of us would be hard pressed to do it in less than 200 hours. Some might take less, but some would need more.
That's $5.00 an hour. If that is what Sally expects to earn for her work, then she is quite the fool, isn't she?
Do you sell your work, Mark? :-)
You missed what I said. It doesn't matter how much potential the writing has if she needs the money to feed her children today.
Not selling it and letting her kids go hungry would be the foolish thing to do.
The other point was that many people do not have the skills to identify a "tightly focused niche" that will provide income. Trust me - there are plenty of tightly focused niches that make no money at all - even the $5 you are talking about.
I do sell my work - and would not consider working that cheaply. But - I am lucky/skillful/educated/whatever enough not to need to.
And I have several full time employees who much prefer the lower instant, guaranteed income rather than the bigger potential income.
A bird in the hand...............
If the writer is living in a third world country. That may be an exorbitant pay for writing.
Yeah, I figured someone would say that. But it doesn't change anything. If they are capable of writing well enough to sell their work to people who will make more from it, they can make more themselves and perhaps help move that third world economy forward, which would ultimately benefit all of us.
If I found someone to pay me $5.00 a word, I would not worry about much else in life.
I would be enjoying it.
I think you are not understanding this.
Apparently Misha and I agree on Google's goals. Those aren't all that difficult to discern; just read Matt Cutts.
Where we differ is on how successful they will be. My bet is on Google, but desired results are not always acheivable: Misha could be right.
If he is wrong, all keyword and niche analysis becomes pointless. If he is partially wrong, it becomes partially pointless. All the polluters lose out, but so do the niche hunters. As the niche hunters aren't necessarily doing anything wrong, that is an unfortunate side effect.
People who buy content to exploit niches are niche hunters. They can also be polluters, of course, but for our purpose here, let's say they are not.
Keep in mind that the niches come from advertiser interest and nowhere else. If Google can drive searchers to perfect results, there are no hidden niches. It is all in the open: you want the best info on cancer from asbestos and you will get it. If you are a writer interested in exploiting that niche, you won't need to worry about secret keywords, you will just write your post and let Google see it. They will decide when and if to present it to searchers.
That world does not exist yet, but we are moving toward it. And again, I bet on Google. You want to bet on Misha? Go right ahead.
hehe - One of my selling points a while back was that I could do the work at less than half of the price of a British or American writer - I am now moving towards matching their rates as my client list grows. Not every writer has the experience or the knowledge to market and sell their own work - these things take a lot of time to pick up. Writing, a little graphic and website design, formatting, editing, marketing, style guides - freelance writing is a very steep learning curve.
Article writing is a very competitive market - you need to have a good portfolio and a list of satisfied clients before you break away from the pennies a word mentality. It isn't as easy as just going out there and 'selling your work' - that requires money and time to invest in marketing, self-promotion, learning new skills, and gaining experience.
If the fictional writer is still charging that price in a year then I agree; she is foolish. Otherwise, she is serving an apprenticeship and, if she is talented and hungry enough, her rate will soar. There will always be employers seeking cheap writers - it is up to the writer to break out of that mentality. Again, that is no different than becoming a plumber or an accountant - you start at the bottom and work your way up.
I agree with you that the market is starting to self correct - however, if a writer is not talented enough or adaptable enough, they will be condemned to a life of working for peanuts. It is better to find another profession - the system filters out the poor quality writers.
I sell mine sometimes, but not for one cent per word. The minimum I've ever considered is two cents per word, or $10 for a short generic article that doesn't require research. I write fast and can often complete 3 such articles, or hubs, in about an hour, so that's $30 an hour. I'm not too proud to work for 30 bucks an hour.
I know a little about a wide range of topics, and I love to write, so I've found that this sort of writing for pay is a nice source of extra income for me.
I have to agree with Mark here!
No, you are not agreeing with Mark. You are saying you sell for twice this rate, which turns out to be profitable for you. Though I notoce you have 659 hubs here - why didn't you sell those?
Fine: Sally Sallyson, listen to the people who want to take your stuff for cheap. Believe them when they say you are smart enough to write good articles for them, but not smart enough to make money with them.
They, after all, are much smarter than you are. Just ask them: they'll tell you.
Why didn't I sell all my hubs? Because I didn't want to. Those hubs earn me several hundred dollars each month that I can count on.
I'm an opportunist. I take advantage of what's available at any given time. If I want extra cash and all that's available at the time is writing 25 short articles for $250, I'll do it. If, on the other hand, I have a higher offer at the same time, obviously, I'll usually go with the higher offer, depending on subject matter. I've sold articles for $10 and other amounts, up to $375 for a single article. If I demanded a high price for every article, I'd soon find myself out of business as a freelance writer.
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if so, how did it go?
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