SO MYSELF AND A FEW FRIENDS WERE DISCUSSING PRESIDENT OBAMA RE ELECTION.. ONE OF MY FRIENDS SEEM TO BE UNDER THE DELUSION THAT OUR PRESIDENT WILL GIVE REPARTIONS TO AFRICAN AMERICANS THIS TERM... WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK??????
What exactly is she being ridiculous about? She clearly stated that friends of hers were under the delusion! Have you ever seen any of the videos of Obama supporters? They are in most cases delusional.
Most people consider delusions ridiculous.
Can you not understand the words written?
I did understand them. You asked someone why they called behavior you characterize as delusional ridiculous. I think that question answers itself.
No I didn't She told the OP to not be ridiculous, the OP was not being ridiculous!
Then tell me who she was talking to? She quoted the author of the OP, tell me.
She said ridiculous, she didn't say the Op was ridiculous or the idea, she just said ridiculous. But if you want to put two and two together and come up with five, have it your way.
Why don't you go back and read what was said, unless she changed her other posts too. Don't come in late unless you know whats going on and you clearly don't.
Ridiculous. That was UW's post and this was yours:
No I didn't She told the OP to not be ridiculous,
Irrespective of what was said later, these were the posts I was responding to.
She didn't tell the Op not to be ridiculous, she just said ridiculous. You came up with the rest. Who's late?
No, I was saying the idea was ridiculous. She asked what did we think and I thought it was ridiculous.
No, You said "Don't be ridiculous"! You have since changed your response, good job!
I know I did. I wanted people to understand what I said without confusion. I meant that the idea was ridiculous not that the OP was ridiculous.
And here we go around and around and around arguing about meaningless minutia.
But... you are so good at it. Everyone has to be good at something
You joined this site just to post this?
You had been a member of Hubpages for 1 whole minute before you started a new thread on the forums?
Knowing of the problems the religious/politics forums have on this site as it is, I can see you are either a troll or an agitator.
Pity, because there could have been interesting discussion on what you asked.
How many minutes does one have to be a member to meet with your approval? How many minutes does one have to be a member before they are not called names?
so you think i'm here to agitate others? I put it out there because some people may think the same as my poor Delusional friend... what's wrong with me sharing her belief/fantasy... &collecting your comments/opinions.
Absolutely! Lets start with some free phones.
I think ALL CAPS are SHOUT-Y!!!
And that reparations are astoundingly unlikely.
The only reparations this president will give is to the one percent for sure.
Hadn't heard that one about A-A people getting reparations.
Did see in a few places that the Latinos say Obama "owes them" now on immigration, however.
Time for us women voters to get in on the action, before all the favors are given out to the other voting blocs. Whaddya say, ladies? Time to claim our fair share??
I am the delusional friend, but really I am not delusional, and yes I just joined not even a minute ago. Native Americans got their share of free education, reservations, and they continuously qualify for government grants. The Ancestors of African Americans have suffered the worst as slaves building The United States against their will. We deserve reparations for the suffrages of our ancestors. They say it's a cold world, I say it's a cold America. The face of America has changed; the knowledge of American's has also changed. The average citizen today is more informed of the different branches of government and how they work. This knowledge has enabled us to reelect a president who is trying so hard to level the playing field for all Americans. Guns manipulation and a lack of integrity gave the Europeans who invaded this land now called the United States power over Native Americans. These same tactics gave Europeans leverage that enabled them to steal and traffic human slaves from Africa, hold them captive in Barbados, and bring them to America and force them to build a nation for Europeans. Discounted as human and counted as cattle the ancestors of African Americans who in Africa had once worn gold in their hair as decoration, were highly educated, had created and come from the best Universities earned PHD's, were living not even equal to animals in America. African Americans have had it the worst in America. In 1965 the year of my sister's birth African Americans had to purchase food from the back door of a restaurant. They could not eat at the dinner counter with white Americans. An equal education was denied to African Americans. America was divided by segregation. As the American Government handed out federal money to “White Americans” to buy homes and establish a life for themselves, African Americans worked in those homes as servant’s to make ends meet for their families. Today the American Republican Party repeatedly says the working class wants "things" American's African American's in particular want a level playing field. As I reflect back on the swearing in of Barack Obama, how John Boehner purposely quoted the wrong words for President Barack Obama to be sworn in as president, I am reminded of the lack of integrity of slave captures. When I think of the voter discouragement tactics put in place on Election Day I think of the time before the fifteenth amendment when it had been established that a person can only vote if their grandfather voted. This prevented African Americans from voting, we had been enslaved and did not vote neither did any of our ancestors. The playing field has been unleveled for so long and although the ancestry of Europeans has given them a great head start here in America they do not want to give any leverage to the average American by paying their fair share of taxes. Whether this is an inherited position of power or wealth, the unbalance in America is unjust and we must move forward admitting our truths and changing how America is governed.
No luck needed it has already been settled within the consitution, all that was needed was for a president to care enough about it to execute the plan.
I think you're right. Any African Americans that were drug over here in chains, whipped and made into slaves should absolutely get some compensation. Or maybe even their children, if they were allowed to reproduce.
Where can we find them?
The process will work the same way it does for Native American's. I see you are not educated on that process.
I'm sorry, and mean no offense, but this whole idea is ridiculous in the extreme and I find it no more than another ploy to get something for nothing.
You are suggesting that anyone with an African heritage be paid compensation for something someone long ago did to someone else. Irregardless of damage to current individuals, irregardless of when their ancestors came to the country anyone with a higher level of melanin in their skin is somehow "deserving" of money.
Well, my ancestors came from Africa, too - the entire human race did. Can I get a bunch of free money as well?
I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in a small town. Schools were only poor to fair and in no way the quality offered in larger cities. I didn't sit in the back of the bus - there were no buses so I walked. The two black kids in my school were richer than I was, as evidenced (through a child's eyes) by the fact that they had more toys.
I watched in college as native Americans were given a free ride through school, but I worked my way through college - before, during and after semesters. There were no special grants for my race so that was the only way to get higher education. Only women and non-white races had race specific grants - whites were denied those grants because, I guess, it was somehow "fair".
Later in life I watched for 40 years as blacks, women and other minorities were hired ahead of me and/or promoted over me, all in the name of "fairness" to those minorities. Supposedly to make up for what an unknown caucasian did to an unknown minority 200 years ago.
I think it's past time I was given some reparation for what I have gone through and what I've suffered as misguided politicians intentionally and repeatedly took my opportunities away to give to minorities. All because someone I never knew did bad things to someone no one now alive ever knew either.
I also mean no offense when I point out that all you have described is your failures in life.
Grants and preferences were (and are I guess) made to various peoples disadvantaged by birth as a clumsy way of redressing the imbalance to some degree. It was a clumsy system because, as you rightly point out, there are many disadvantaged groups. It was better than nothing is about all that can be said for it, and something had to be done.
Failure? Not by my way of thinking - I took what opportunities I had and made something of them. I've been to school twice, both paid for 100% by me and not by some stranger or tax funded grant. I've had two careers, both times working myself up from near the bottom to near the top of the location. I'm not rich, and never will be, but I'm satisfied.
I actually don't disagree with affirmative action, but it is past time to end it. Discrimination has decreased to the point that most (over half) of what is now seen is directly attributable to affirmative action programs required by law, not to any actual employer choices.
This country has, by dint of long and hard effort on the part of many people, come about as close to ending racial inequality as it is possible to do in a diverse society.
Is it perfect? Certainly not, but requiring one race to foot the bill, money or otherwise, is no longer the answer. The legal discrimination of such action is now worse than the problem it attempts to correct, and reparation by one race to another for actions from centuries past is the same. Not only unnecessary, but harmful to the country as a whole as it continues to perpetuate racial inequality.
I can agree with this - Ihave had moderately similar situation in my own life. However, all those efforts to level opportunity etc clearly have not worked. I also do not think that the same kind of affirmative actions would be useful, but I do think something should still be done as the situation that prevails is still directly caused by the basic injustice of slavery.
The problem I see is that a big effect of affirmative action programs was to produce an awful lot of people that now depend on them to make it. They have been taught, and taught well, that they are entitled to superior opportunities that others are not and they want those entitlements continued and expanded on.
Those people are the ones now complaining that the playing field is not level, but only because their definition of level is highly biased in their favor. The large majority of jobs and opportunities are as open to one race as another, and what isn't is not particularly biased towards any one race. That is, there are about as many racially motivated jobs requiring black, hispanic or any other race as there are those requiring white applicants. All highly illegal, of course, but it does happen.
There is little injustice left that results from the slavery or other discrimination of the past. We will never stamp it all out, the human race is too perverse for that, but we have made major strides and only time will heal what is left. Providing ever more entitlements based on race is not the solution to eradicating what little is left and can only further polarize the haters and bigots that still exist on both sides.
Very eloquently put!
Welcome to Hubpages
I do believe you are a new hubber and not an alter ego of someone else.
As someone with no say whatsoever in American politics, for what it is worth I do believe the descendants of black slaves should indeed be 'reparated' or whatever word should be used.
Your ancestors suffered terribly at the hands of white Americans, and indeed the coloured divide continued right through until at least the 1960s. I've read 'The Help'.
I don't mean to come across as shallow by referring to a modern book.
Britain still pays millions of pounds annually to India, presumably for something our ancestors did to their ancestors, even though India has its own space project.
It is only right and proper than modern governments pay for errors of judgement in the past.
Can America afford it? - This might be the question a lot of people are asking.
Look on it as wages not paid to slaves for all those years.
You should check out Barbershop 2... Cedric the Entertainer has an interesting bit about reparations.
...who is a troll...you're a troll! hey R1!...causing truble?
Hi SOH !! that's my job
As it happens I have changaed my mind - I have seen so many right wing kites flown here to smear the current US administration that I jumped too soon.
I was thinking of getting in again as the OP and friend seem to be genuine and have an interesting slant on the disgraceful condition of black people in the US generally - opposed by a bigoted racist who is trying to troll the thread to death.
But I am a bit busy this morning (morning here anyway)
Hope life is treating you kind
I don't think there's going to be any kind of race-based monetary reparation coming for African-Americans.
But, I do believe this president is committed to leveling the playing field on education and jobs, which are the bests foundation for success in life.
The fields are level, just not being taken advantaged of, except by Asians.
This is coming from someone who is clearly delusional.
No - it is coming from a racist. You are making perfectly valid points with valid reasoning, you stay on it girl !!!
Cry me a river, racism has nothing to do with it! The fields are level now go get what you want. Or you can sit back and never achieve anything. Asians seem to be doing well, Hispanics are making progress and lots of Blacks are getting it done. Reparations are not coming nor should they be.
How much more can be given except money? There are no slaves left, no children of slaves left. Who is going to get the money?
How about giving it to the descendants of those wronged?
Do you not think that blacks would have a different history, a different outlook on life, and different (better) prospects if they hadn't been treated so badly in the past?
It is never too late to start repairing the damage done.
Now is as good a time as any, especially when the US has a black president, who has just been voted into office for the second time!
I don't know how they would have fared, there have been no slaves in this country since 1865, we have a Black President. Seems like things are going ok. A little slower than many other races but progressing. I shouldn't have to pay for what at the time was a legal activity, the men responsible are long dead.
So, no slavery in the US since 1865.
Why then did blacks have to travel on different buses to whites, or use different shops, to whites in the 1960s? 100 years later.
Were black children allowed to be educated alongside white children?
Did blacks have the vote?
Is America a free country today?
If I were a white person in the USA today, I would be bending over backwards to appease the blacks. It would be the least I could do in view of just what happened in the recent past.
If that means paying reparations, then so be it. Puts the level playing field back in focus.
Thats right, no slave since 1865!
Slavery was made illegal everywhere in the U.S. by the Thirteenth Amendment, which took effect in December 1865.
Still wasn't responsible for any of it and I nor anyone should have to pay!
I'm sorry I didn't read that about appeasing Blacks, are you serious? Bend over backwards to appease Blacks? What do you think that will do? Somehow gonna make up for something THAT DID NOT EFFECT THEM?
So living in a country where their mother or grandmother was not permitted an education, had to get off a bus and wait for the next one if a white person boarded, could not use public libraries, could not vote, did not affect them?
I don't know what school of psychology you went to!
What happened before affected not only a whole generation, but the children and the children's children of that generation.
And yes, appeasement, preferably in the form of monetary considerations, is due.
Izzy, do you then take responsibility for what any member of your particular race does? Just those your ancestors? Or maybe just the last half dozen generations of ancestors?
Personally, I do not. Even the mistakes and actions of my very father, just one generation away, were his. Not mine, and I take no responsibility for them.
I was about to make a reply to your last posting, when I saw this thread has been added to.
Whether or not I take responsibility for the actions of my ancestors is neither here nor there, in the current British set-up.
I was about to agree with you, that in jobs, in daily life, white people can feel discriminated against, and with good reason.
Here in the UK, all sorts of monies are thrown at minority groups, whether that is coloureds, disabled, gays, whatever label is appropriate.
There is positive discrimination against the so-called minority groups, even though these people make up the majority is most major cities.
Positive discrimination means that companies have to employ a certain percentage of minority workers, to the detriment of the (possibly better qualified) white applicants.
It also means that Christmas trees and lights are banned in some cities, so that they won't offend the minority groups who are not Christian.
I am not at all happy at how we are afraid to speak out against positive discrimination. We are labelled racist if we do.
So yes I understand your situation, or how it has been throughout your life.
But, still, America treated the blacks, who were brought over there under duress, so badly, that even today, black people must feel like second-class citizens.
I still think reparations should be made, but quite how a country that has more debt than all the third world countries put together is going to be able to afford it, is quite another thing.
We're. Not! If you want to see this country at war try and pass that through. The strides this country has made regards to race will be for nothing. We have ZERO desire to do things the way the UK does. Want race issues to be in the past? Then move forward and quit looking back at things nobody alive had anything to do with!
Your "positive discrimination" is our "affirmative action". Under either name it discriminates in the job or other area to give an artificial advancement to a particular race or group.
The UK may need it, as it seems from my limited information that minorities are growing and that all too often promotes discrimination. The US, however, no longer does. If a black feels that they are second class it is because they have made themselves that way. There are areas of our country that are heavily poor black. And poor white. And poor Hispanic. And poor nearly everything else. The black race is no long singled out as being a subclass, although the loudest voices of that community will always claim otherwise (it's how they make their living and maintain their power base, after all) but it simply isn't true any more.
Our affirmative action did accomplish getting blacks into the workplace in such numbers that finding your coworker to be black is no longer unusual and thus no longer objectionable, either. Giving reparations (or appeasement or whatever you wish to call it) will only bring demands for more from the one race and hate from the other. It will not promote any more equality than there is right now.
Consider; if you are a downtrodden black man (woman) will the gift of $1,000 change your life? Will you suddenly be the equal of your white neighbor? Will the school your children attend suddenly be top quality?
And will every white man (woman) look at you with smoldering anger because they were forced to give you that $1,000 from their pocket against their will? Will your white neighbor (in the same neighborhood, using the same schools and having the same kind of job but that didn't get any money for it) be happy for you and respond to your new gestures of friendship? Or will you forever be considered just another leech, demanding what you haven't earned?
Very well put, Wilderness.
I now withdraw my support for reparation, as I can see it would do more harm than good.
That assumes the reparation is cash. It could be given in college scholarships, land grants, business monopolies or just about anything.
This is the meaning of reparation, it does not mean cash handouts
[i]measures taken by the state to redress gross and systematic violations of human rights law or humanitarian law[i/]
I take it nobody is arguing that the human rights of black folk have not been grossly and systematically violated ??
I quite like the idea of automatic paid college places for all black youth. Education is the best cure for most problems, it is the horrendously uneducated white folk of the US who seem to be the base fountain of racism, but then these are usually put into the army and sent to other countries which keeps them out of the way for a bit I guess.
Why are the white youth uneducated? Is it lack of resources to give them a good education?
Surely if that is the case, racism will rear its ugly head 10-fold if blacks are given something that the whites couldn't afford?
All colours, races, creeds deserve the best education a country can afford.
Money is far better spent on the youth than on space projects or wars.
Paid-for college places should be available to every bright child capable of undertaking the courses.
Reparation are unequal to recognize that a class of people was disadvantaged. If you look at the wealthy now their family wealth often stems from the era when black people could not own property or get loans.
I agree it would be a troubling inequity but it can be justified.
It would be better yet of all kids got free college access.
It would be better if all education was free to everyone and the institutions put on a level playing field so that equality was for everyone too.
If anyone has trouble with the concept of the wealthy white owing the black descendants it might be considered that the wealth of many white families was built on slave labour, so it could be argued that all of their wealth should be removed from them to pay for such programmes.
You don't even realise that everything you wrote is factually wrong do you? You don't know our history at all. Was there seperate but equal? Yes, but they were not denied an education or the vote. Some places intimidated people but it was never a law or sanctioned by our government. Also to blame only white Americans is crazy, slave traders bought slaves from Africans,Dutch,English. And Spanish slave owners. When you can speak about this with any knowledge get back to me.
Contrary to what you would like to believe you are the one that is factually wrong. I can imagine that you have been taught things to protect you from the horrid truths of your race, and all of the inhumane acts that took place between them and African Americans, or perhaps you like to believe within yourself that things were not as bad as they sound. The fact of the matter is the truth can always be proven. Separate but equal was a lie. There was no equality in the school systems for whites and blacks as long as they were separate. You are not speaking based on research and facts you are speaking based on what you were taught to believe. The education that was given to African Americans was a share cropper’s education. While school boards like the Dollarway School Board in Arkansas $6.21 cent per student to "Whites" Schools with African Americans only got $1 per student. The African American schools were not accredited and the African American Students did not receive diplomas and could not attend college. This Sparked Brown vs. Board of Education and Brown vs. Board of Education II. Voting was denied to African Americans and women for hundreds of years. I was not until The Voting Rights Act of 1965 (42 U.S.C. §§ 1973–1973aa-6)[1 that African Americans were able to vote and even then votes were being discarded no different from what happened during George W, Bush II's campaign of his first term as unelected President. You speak of all of the diverse places that "slave traders" came from those slave traders did not bring African's to America and force them to be the architects of the U.S. Yes Spain took African from the cusp of Africa in fact they started the human trafficking, but what happened after they got to Spain is Spain’s' history. I am only speaking factually of the diaspora pertaining to The United States of America. We have only touched on a small portion of the unjust done to African slaves and their descendants. I imagine you don't want to face the truths of America due to your direct relation to the oppressor; the generational curses that your ancestors possess are very prevalent in your text which is unfortunate for you. I will not continue to go back and forth with you this is beneath me. I have a full life that requires my attention. I suggest you educate yourself on what is true before you speak and stop making yourself look ignorant. Just as Mitt Romney did not win by a landslide and President Obama was elected a second term, “American Slaves, Negros, Colored People, Black’s, & African American’s” deserve reparations for slavery.
You sound really, really agitated RG. Are you ok?
No, that is not quite true.
The field needs a lot more leveling to overcome cultural bias and oppression.
Regardless of whether the government should do it, they aren't going to.
It has already been done because it should have been. Hundreds of years ago it was done.
No, You said "Don't be ridiculous"! You have since changed your response, good job!
I know I did. I wanted people to understand what I said without confusion. I meant that the idea was ridiculous not that the OP was ridiculous.
Why do you even try?
@Repairguy, have you never edited your posts after reading them for the sake of clarity? I know this might be a new one on you, but some people want to be sure that they come across in the right way, and that their remarks are not misconstrued. That is not a sin, but the behavior of a thoughtful person.
Again, why do you try? You were wrong just live with it!
I had mentioned that irrespective of the later posts, that was what was written. But we're all wrong at times, I wont beat myself up over it. I mean, it's not like I'd said Romney would win big!
And I'll have to live with that! The difference is I wont obsess over it.
Wait I think he was going to pay for our gas first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb … re=related
"Native Americans got their share of free education, reservations, and they continuously qualify for government grants. Actually, that was what they got for signing away their land and signing treaties that were mostly ignored.
Why don't you ask them what they think of all that free stuff? They are doing much better operating casinos. Anything our government touches turns to crap!
okay...now i agree with you RG - about 'anything our gov't touches turns to crap'...it is true gov't has done a bad job re first nation people..basically what does gov't know about cultural needs......i'm speaking about canadian treaties and the treatment of first nation folks here.....and it continues..........................................btw i think the queen of england needs to pay canada back too, big time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ha ha ha ha....i'm tired of sippin' on tea in the afternoon! j/k
i'm a canuck
No I doubt I will reparations from any president considering I have not been oppressed.
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