If you have a problem with HP don't take it out on other hubbers!

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Cardisaposted 11 years ago
I am really upset over the whole discussion about the Apprenticeship program. Now disgruntled hubbers want to have the badge removed form our profiles.

When I became an "elite", when it was known as that, I was treated really badly by some petty hubbers.

When I joined the AP program I fell ill and still stayed in the program, I lost my brother and still stayed in the program, I worked extra hard not to lose my mind and still wrote, I wrote through my depression and everything that was going on and now, here it is again. Some people are upset for whatever reason. Why are you all acting like a bunch of haters? I am not usually mean but why don't you all just leave the apprentices alone and take up your issue with hubpages?
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  Lord De Crossposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And you wanted to be my GF with that attitude? (jk)
  I think you are going to get different responses dear. For me is the same, with a badge or without. I write whatever I want in here. I think haters were part of any tragedy in history and Mythology. And why not in HP?
  "Sancho, I hear the dogs barking, is sign that we are moving ahead..."
  Don Quixote of the Mancha
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hello my Lord, I thought I was already your GF (good friend)....lol
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  geetbhimposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Lord de cross!
  
  Well said, even I do the same badge does not matter, I think some people are sick that they always want to create trouble for others.
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  Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You make some very good points here, Cardisa. If there are complaints about the Apprenticeship Program, they should be directed to the site managers, not those who went through the program. And as with you, many people in our group had tremendous life issues during the six months, but kept going. One person and his spouse had their first baby, one person had surgery, and one was planning her wedding for only weeks after the program ended.
  
  Your personal loss during the program was tremendous, and I remember when you posted about it here - but I didn't know you were in the program. I very much understand the huge stress you experienced during the program, and I admire you for staying with it and staying strong through that difficult time.
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  gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cardisa honey, you earned that A, stand tall and be proud. Do not let the haters and negaters bother you in the least iota. There are some who simply "cannot" and/or "do not" and because they are at their particular situation in life, they do not want others to do good. It is called the crab in the barrel mentality.
  
  To those who earned that A, I am proud and extremely joyous for you all. HubPages is a wonderful and glorious place to write. To those who are experts at the computer and other logisitcs, it will be easier and to those computer novices and dinosaurs like me, read and study the learning center. To the latter, one has to be familiarized with the logistics. If one is a good writer, he/she will be noticed and earn money.
  
  To those who are envy, destructive, malicious, and otherwise are not content with HubPages, please do not spread malaise on the forums and attack other Hubbers. That is unconscionable, jealous and extremely immature behavior to say the least. If one wants something, study and work smart for it! That is all I have to say! This is analogous to hating the honor and A students at school- egregious behavior indeed!
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  LuisEGonzalezposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I am not an Elite anymore nor do I want to be an apprentice but you are soooooooo......right. Keep your head up. You are one of the best!.....................
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  Hauntyposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry to hear this, Cardisa. I think whoever harasses the Apprentices for having the "a" badge deserves to get banned.
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Cardisa, I read your post with interests. I'm going to share my perspective with you.
  
  a) With regard to the Elite program, it was an unfortunate misnomer. I did not join Hubpages for two years because when I googled the program, the first two or three writers were all 'elite' writers and when I saw the level of their English which ranged in the semi-literacy level, I did not want to join the site. I thought if that is what they called 'elite,' then what on earth will they call bad? So the name was a most unfortunate choice. And the issue was that readers would gravitate towards writers they thought were the best writers, and therefore the really good writers would lose traffic. I think there was cause for concern.
  
  b) With regard to the Apprenticeship program, it's a mixture of jealousy and resentment. Obviously, not everybody would be accepted. I don't apply for that exact reason - I wouldn't be accepted. In America, unfortunately, it's not the excellence of work that counts, but the degree to which one is liked. And in order to be liked, one has to be politically correcct 100% of the time, regardless of whether it is ethically and morally correct. I also guess that when one is an apprentice, HP will not only pay you, but they will promote your work more than, say, someone like me.
  
  c) Some of us have the maturity to accept the situation as is; others don't. You're simply going to have to live with it. :For instance, I would love to be paid for what I write. Mostly, I'm not. That's because I'm a bit of a maverick. I pay the price for what I am. Others want to be part of the apprenticeship program because they will get paid but their writing standard doesn't measure up. Unfortunately, they probably don't have the skills to see it.
  
  I wish you luck. If HP accepted you, I am absolutely sure that you deserved it. Well done!
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Sophia, I agree with you about the Elite program and am so glad that the name was changed. As far as the AP program, I just have to sit back and observe. When I applied to the program I was sent my acceptance letter the following month. I was so excited about it. I never thought the negative side of it or that people's feelings might actually be hurt if rejected. My friend applied and was told that she needed to publish more frequently to be considered. She did not take it personally even though that was not insulting. I suppose if you were told your writing is substandard, that would make you upset.
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  teaches12345posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I am on the apprenticeship program and have experienced some difficulty getting through the program. I had so much going on in my life, but I managed to make it through. I loved the guidance! Love your writings and ignore the negativity.
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ologsinquitoposted 11 years ago
You are an excellent writer and you seem like a nice person. (I enjoy your hubs, especially the Jamaican ones, and it sounds as if you've lived through a lot.) Please ignore any negatively sent your way. It's not deserved.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Ologsinquito, I had no idea you read my hubs.
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  LuisEGonzalezposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You ignoring me........?
  
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cardeleanposted 11 years ago
I remember all of that nonsense with the "e" and unfortunately I'm not surprised by all the negativity with the apprenticeship program. Unfortunately there are some people that are going to be like that no matter what. I certainly didn't face the sort of challenges that you did during the program but I still had my good and bad moments. It is an all consuming program and those of us who finished deserve every bit of recognition that we have received. Don't let the haters get to you because that's all they know. Keep your chin up Cardisa, you're better than they are.
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summerberrieposted 11 years ago
Cardisa,
You have always demonstrated a compassionate point of view and have been great at encouraging other hubbers.

People have different bents- doesn't mean their insights are not useful or lack merit. People speak from their own personal experiences, flaws and/or wisdom. It is called humanity.

HubPages works for me. I'm not going to be an activist and try and challenge their methods. If they ask for feedback in the forums, then I will freely give it as honestly has I can. When HubPages no longer meets my needs then I will stop writing here.

Enjoy your 'a'. I know I enjoy mine.
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Healthy Pursuitsposted 11 years ago
More than likely, it's sour grapes. A lot of us applied for the Apprenticeship program, and there were a limited number of slots. So not all of us (including me) were chosen. Some of us feel that, being geniuses, all good should be ours. The rest of us just hope that our turn will come.

So let it roll off your back. If you focus on it, you give the negativity the focus it wants, but doesn't deserve.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry you didn't get in Healthy Pursuits, I hope you do re-apply. The program is worth it.
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2uesdayposted 11 years ago
Cardisa who got selected is not decided by you and it sounds like you have to put in a lot of work.
Knowing how helpful you are in the forums, you will no doubt share some of the knowledge you gained on the course. I see that as possibly being helpful to me
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Few that have not gone through the program have any idea how much work it is.
  
  Speaking for myself, I probably averaged 80 hours per month taking care of the AP needs. Others that write faster, or did not participate in the AP forums, will have needed less, but that's probably a reasonable average.
  
  That Cardisa did it while her life was in upheaval was miraculous.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @ 2uesday, I would love to help persons who need it, as usual. But since I have seen that anyone who mentions the AP program seems to open up a can of worms, I have been very reserved in saying anything.
  
  @Wilderness, thanks
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WriteAngledposted 11 years ago
Whenever people are badged for whatever, they will earn resentment. That comes with the badge. That is a major reason why I am so happy that I can hide the stupid HP accolades on my profile.

In most cases, you can choose to wear a badge and suffer the odium that it wakes in other people or you can choose remain badgeless.

Unfortunately if you go for the A scheme here you are tarnished with the A whether you want it or not.

That is one of the reasons I went for Rocket Squids over at Squidoo instead. I get the training I want. I am not forced to keep to a rigid timetable, but can do it in my own time. I get the boosts I need to the articles I produce, but I am not labelled forever afterwards.

Despite getting rid of the "elite" title, HP staff have not yet caught on that the world as a whole loathes elitism and they continue to promulgate it through their idiotic badges and by limiting entry to the A scheme to people they consider have "safe" attitudes to this site.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  WA, I think the US has a bit more of a competitive spirit than the UK. We have rewards for everything! I wonder if an actor who just one an Oscar hides it under the table to spare himself from suffering the odium that it wakes in other people and he chooses to remain Oscarless. I doubt that will ever happen because I don't think when he accepts his award he thinks he has earned others resentment, but thinks he has earned others respect. I think most would say "to /@!! with the those who harbor resentment" and proudly accept his well deserved praise with the assurance most the audience applause is a genuine show respect. Personally, I do not resent others accomplishments nor do I think it is silly to give rewards and/or display them. But you are right about it being nice to have the option.
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  WriteAngledposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That is probably very true, Summerberrie.
  
  Many of the people I know in the UK, and myself as well, find competitiveness somewhat nauseating.
  
  I remember, although it is a long time ago, that prefects in my school were universally loathed and nobody wanted to have anything to do with them inside or outside school. They were considered to be more or less the same as Nazi collaborators in World War 2.
  
  It is my impression, although I may be wrong, that in the US school prefects (do you call them monitors?) are generally seen as popular role models by their peers.
  
  The problem, of course, is that the Internet is a worldwide phenomenon, so any site attracting people from all over will fall prey to various inter-cultural clashes on diverse matters.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The problem, of course, is that the Internet is a worldwide phenomenon, so any site attracting people from all over will fall prey to various inter-cultural clashes on diverse matters.
  
  Well, said.
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  Dale Hydeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I give kudos to those who are in this program. I know the requirements. I consider myself a "decent" writer, but not one who would make the sacrifices needed to stay in this program and to follow through on it. It is tough. Nothing easy about it. The OP talkes about all she endured and kept at it. Could I have done so? No, hence me not making the commitment.
  
  Keep up the good work and know that any who earn merit will be looked down upon by those who are envious. I am glad you raised the issue.
  
  I had no idea what all you have recently gone through. You are amazing. Keep up your excellent writing and sharing with those of us who appreciate what you have offered and will continue to offer us as well as HP.
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  psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You began this thread with a post clearly referring to "disgruntled hubbers" "petty hubbers" "Some people" and "a bunch of haters"
  
  I doubt I am the only one who saw that as directed at a certain group of hubbers (not including myself, so no personal stakes for me) from a recent thread. If you did not mean to identify and vilify that group your phrasing and tone was very unfortunate. Because that is just what this thread proceeded to do.
  
  Something that strikes me as more a counter attack and a request for a cease fire. Just like saying the equivalent of: I didn't mean you, I meant you and a bunch of other people, but well, including you.'
  
  Words are important and can affect people. That's why we need to use them carefully even when feeling attacked.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Something about this HP AP scheme that I don't get is why, when AP's have finished their term, they are not utilised by HP to share the skills they have acquired during their apprenticeship. I mean surely, it would be advantageous for HP as a commercial enterprise to distribute this knowledge among the community. I'm not talking about the payments AP's receive for articles- but the knowledge they have gained, why limit that to just a select few? AP's as part of their training could write about what is expected of them during the training, what they have learnt etc. I don't understand why this hasn't been written about within this community of writers, what's the big secret, what am I missing?
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  paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hi.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hi.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie, the big secret is that it is no secret. It is all in the learning center.
  
  I think:
  
  HP chooses people based on these top things
  1, having a niche that is profitable
  2. prolific writing habit
  3. basic writing skill
  
  won an Oscar not one an Oscar===where is Mark Ewbie when you need him?
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If it's all in the learning center (not how HP selects an apprentice) but the skills, knowledge and learning, why bother with the AP program? I'm not knocking AP's here, summerberrie. But I've read the learning centre from start to finish, the information is helpful, but general and a bit vague. So why have HP decided that even though they offer this information in the learning centre, they should pay AP's for articles and invest in their training, when they can offer it for nought? Don't get it.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie, I think HP wants to get a large quantity of hubs out at once that are written the way they want them written and formatted...using the capsules. word count, ect.... They seem to want hubbers with niches....if you write about bee keeping- then they want you not to only write one hub about bee keeping but several and each hub while about bee keeping is different. Or if you write a hub about arthritis, they would like for you to write several hubs about arthritis and have each one be different. In other words, I think they are looking to build the site with hubbers who have a large knowledge base on a specific topic and who write a quantity of hubs about that topic. I think the AP program is the best way for them to accomplish something like this. We had almost thirty people in our group and we each had our own niche and we wrote and we wrote and we wrote. Actually, I think it is a great idea.
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  cardeleanposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I was going to respond with the same information summerberrie. The only "difference" that I can see is that there is a core group of people working on the same stuff at the same time and have one another to ask questions, bounce ideas off of, etc. Call it a class of peers or a support group or whatever but that is really the only "secret." Everything is right in the learning center. It is just broken down into smaller chunks to really understand during each month.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So the learning is staggered and there's a greater support network? Am I understanding this? Which is fine, but maybe HP could ask hubbers, if, on a voluntary basis, they would like to become involved in such a program. If that's how it works, then why only a few at a time?It sounds a bit (although I concede that I have never taken part) like the 30 hubs in 30 days challenge.
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  missoliveposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie, in addition to the above and monthly requirements, the hubs are reviewed by the mentors. The mentors then provide constructive feedback to each apprentice for the hubs published, this includes corrections. This incredibly valuable portion of the apprenticeship would be physically impossible for the mentors to provide site-wide.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think that's what I was eluding to last night, ( Sorry it was really late last night when I was asking these questions, I didn't express myself very well lol) I realise this suggestion my not be practical for everyone because of time constraints etc. But when AP's, those who are willing that is, complete the training would not be possible for them to become mentors to other hubbers for a period of time in order to roll out the program to many more hubbers? I mean, there'd be the obvious advantages and also it might go some way towards dealing the with resentment that some writers might be feeling. Just an idea. I would also be interested (if this has already been done and I missed it feel free to send me a virtual *face palm* Lol) to read some hubs about AP's experiences, what they been asked to do, what they've learnt etc. hint, hint,
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with this in principle - it would seem like a good idea for APers to mentor - however a couple of points:
  
  :As with any apprenticeship, the transition from apprentice to master can take several years - just because we are alums it doesn't necessarily mean we are masters at the trade. Elevating us to Mentor would suddenly make it 'AP is better than the average writer'. We are not - we've been taught how to write for the web, but there are many non-AP writers who are better than us!
  
  :I don't think mentoring should be restricted to APers - we can share knowledge gained, but this should also be complimented by knowledge from other non-AP experienced writers. In a way this is what the forums are for - and perhaps as APers we should be encouraged to help where requested on the forums.
  
  I, like most APers, am always willing to help where I can - I am not an expert writer, nor am I better or worse than the average writer - but I can give some insights into what HP think works....and what works for me.
  
  As am example - I used to churn out 3 or 4 hubs a week - they were OK, but nothing special - I now write about 5 or 6 indepth hubs a month - I feel the quality is a lot higher and I do a lot more research than I used to. That's one of the main things I gained from the AP - recognizing what I did badly and what I can improve on....
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I take your point about not necessarily being an expert after graduation from the program etc. But AP's have still learnt a great deal which could be shared with others, yes? So, maybe not an official title, and yes come to think of it that may not be a good idea. But just the other skills that you've acquired, SEO for example. I know there's already loads of hubs about SEO on HP, but they are contradictory. And I've seen so many times that some hubbers will write about SEO and then a few weeks later they'll come into the forums declaring that they receive no traffic and aren't earning anything. So, I know from my own experience that you're left wondering who should be taken seriously or otherwise.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Totally agree - whenever I see a question I think I can answer I will - it'll help the whole of Hubpages at the end of the day. As for SEO - the main things we learn is more about keyword research, key phrases, use of modules etc. that should help with SEO....SEO is such a huge subject - we delve into it but not enoug to make us experts!!!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  WriteAngled. Good response.
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leahleflerposted 11 years ago
The AP is a lot of work, and many people were "deferred" due to the number of applicants vs. the number of available spots in the program. A number of participants were cut from my own group (which "graduates" this month): once you are dropped from the program, you cannot ever reapply to join it.

8 high quality hubs per month may not sound like much, but you have to get the hubs done with no excuses or exceptions. I had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy this month, had emergency surgery (nearly lost my life), was hospitalized, and have been writing from 5:00 am until 9:00 pm to get my final hubs done. If I didn't manage to get them done, I would be dropped from the program with no ability to reapply.

People who didn't make it into the first round of "apprentices" are always free to apply again. It may or may not be helpful, depending on the writer. Some writers have been here a long time, have excellent writing skills, and may not gain much from the program. Others need a little "help," and the AP is a wonderful way to boost online writing skills and SEO skills.
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  snakeslaneposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  
  leahlefler, I'm so sorry to hear of the horrible ordeal you've been through. I sure hope you're feeling better. Your dedication to the program is admirable given the circumstances.
  You too Cardisa. Congratulations to both of you. You should wear that badge with pride!
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Snakeslane
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  ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm so sorry to hear that you went through that. Best wishes and take care of yourself!
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cfinposted 11 years ago
Lets have fun with this....

1. If you have a problem with hubpages...... there is the door.

2. If you have a problem with hubpages...... why are you logged in?

3. If you have a problem with hubpages....... you may want to look within yourself!
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  gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000-jealousy, envy, and general catbiting has no place among professional writers! People, this is HubPages, not junior high school!
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cfinposted 11 years ago
4. If you have a problem with hubpages......... hubpages may have a problem with you
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  LetitiaFTposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I believe you've hit it on the nail. From what I've understood, a positive attitude is one of the requirements for apprentices, and rightfully so. From all the testimonials, it's obviously hard enough as it is to get through the heavy workload without having to suffer the negativity that many proffer so freely on the forums. None of them, incidentally, have commented here as of yet. At least they respect the old adage, "if you can't say anything positive, don't say anything at all." Don't get me wrong, I'm all for constructive criticism, which, if I understand correctly, is what the apprentice program is all about. In any case, I admire apprentice stick-to-itness, and hope I'll find the time & courage to do the program at some point.
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
I haven't noticed anyone acting like a bunch of haters. Sometimes opening threads like this will cause some to wonder what could possibly cause such a reaction. I've read the Apprenticeship threads. I don't see any haters. I think it might help to remember that many hubbers have been here for a number of years, through a lot of changes. While I have nothing against the AP program, I have noticed less staff interaction in the forums since the program began. While this may have nothing to do with the demands of the mentors, it is kind of sad to see less staff interaction sitewide.

But I don't see this bunch of haters that you're referring to. I'm familiar with many of the forum regulars, and I don't see it. I agree with what Healthy Pursuits said, don't give attention to what you don't want to see, it never seems to accomplish your intent.

As far as labels in the forums, I don't pay any attention to an initial on an avatar. I think labels in and of themselves can be disabling. If they're used simply for identification, fine. But anything more than that is superficial, in all of life, not just on HP. We are not labels.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hi RebekahElle, maybe haters is a strong word but I would encourage you to read some of the arguments put forward by some people about the program.
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This.
  
  Honestly, this is so typical of forums on HP. We have post after post about how people are so bad to be haters, yet who are the haters?
  
  I have not seen anyone throwing anything hateful towards Apprenticeships. Perhaps calling them pets could be construed as hate? As one who has used that term, I see it more as a light-hearted dig and nothing to be taken seriously.
  
  This whole thread has turned into an apprentice appreciation society, as all the secondary accounts here came in with their congratulations.
  
  Haven't you got your own forums to do that on?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  IzzyM: the problem is that when typing on a forum, what may be intended as funny can come off as very sarcastic or insulting even when it is not intended. Using a term pet can be construed as being a favorite and being given special consideration; and that's not what is intended when pet is used in most cases.
  
  One of the biggest problems I think we all face on here is that communication through a forum is always going to be static - if you talk face to face, you can say something, see a reaction and then explain what you meant - it's very difficult to do that.
  
  I guess we all need to be less sensitive and defensive and try and see through the words into the meaning!!!
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You see what I mean by Izzy's comment? That comment was uncalled for.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think that text does not translate very well - having seen IzzyM on the forums for a long time I know that she does not intentionally say anything to hurt anyone.
  
  If she was standing in front of you and called you a pet, you'd see her body language and realize she was teasing you - she cannot do that on a forum. It's in the eye of the beholder - we choose to feel that 'pet' is being used nastily, whereas IzzyM has said that she has used it teasingly.
  
  As I said - we (me included) need to worry less about what someone may or may not mean and concentrate on creating great hubs - at the end of the day, what anyone else thinks doesn't really matter....
  
  Cardisa - you out of everyone in our group have worked the hardest to finish the AP - the diversity of the challenge for you was far more than most could handle and I am very proud of you and the work you have done.
  
  Remember the old saying:
  Sticks and Stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
  
  Most of the people who have targeted the AP are not doing it out of spite and are not aiming at any of us members, they are just trying to help HP improve - at the end of the day everyone wants the same thing - success.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cardisa,
  I think Write Angled gave an acceptable explanation. Here it is:
  Write Angled wrote:"
  Many of the people I know in the UK, and myself as well, find competitiveness somewhat nauseating.
  
  I remember, although it is a long time ago, that prefects in my school were universally loathed and nobody wanted to have anything to do with them inside or outside school. They were considered to be more or less the same as Nazi collaborators in World War 2.
  
  It is my impression, although I may be wrong, that in the US school prefects (do you call them monitors?) are generally seen as popular role models by their peers.
  
  The problem, of course, is that the Internet is a worldwide phenomenon, so any site attracting people from all over will fall prey to various inter-cultural clashes on diverse matters."
  
  MINE:
  
  Other cultures challenge those in authority and those connected with authority.
  
  People fall into different camps of thought. Personally, I think more like gmwilliams.
  
  If you wear the 'a' , then others feel you have subjective your motives to be questioned because you have aligned yourself to "the powers to be" and to them you are a blind follower. While they (unattached to the influences or any misguided feelings of loyalty) are there watching our backs to make sure "the powers to be" does not take advantage of the little guy for profit.
  
  I think we are a better community of hubbers by having both camps of thought among us.
  
  I don't mind them challenging me. I do not think the word "pet" is meant to be personal. It is just in their minds they believe it is a position we have chosen to place ourselves in by accepting the badge.
  
  Apologies to those if I am wrong as I try explain your point of view
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  cfinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting point. Agreed with a lot of it to a good extent. But no, all US'ers are not like that. In some states people are more like that, but generally people are the same as the EU in this respect. (they loath authority) Maybe even more so in the US.
  
  Your best point arises, by bringing up the difference in cultures. Keep in mind some countries are huge and have dozens if not hundreds of internal cultures.
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cardisa, You are misinterpreting what I wrote and reacting somewhat over-emotionally, IMO.
  
  Frankly, I am shocked that you started a thread about this, especially now that is seems it was aimed at me.
  
  I do not have a problem with apprentices. In fact, I like them - you too!
  
  But I do reserve my right to gently mock their 'exalted position'.
  
  'Pets' isn't just for apprentices of course, it covers a whole host of hubbers whose work continually gets held up as being great examples of good quality hubs.
  
  They are, of course.
  
  It must be a culture thing. I am British. We don't go in for the overly-fawning over other's work, the way Americans and some other cultures do.
  
  We quietly promote them to social media sites without saying hardly a word, at least I do. That sort of thing brings far greater returns for the author that simply saying 'great hub'.
  
  Oh and Will, it has nothing to do with envy.
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  Shanna11posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I've been treated absolutely terribly for being in the apprenticeship program. Most of the time I just let it roll of my back and it's whatever, but I was reduced to tears (and I literally never cry) over what one Hubber said to me in spite. Those who saw the way I was treated know it was legitimately cruel and out of line-- I actually got a ton of really nice e-mails from Hubbers and even a staff member apologizing for the way this user acted and encouraging me to keep my head up. (The hubber was actually banned for a day or so as a result).
  
  And yeah, that hurt and it made me angry that people could be so hateful over something that I had once been excited about. Just pointing out that it has happened. Some of us are insulted beyond gentle mocking like pet (which I'm totally okay with). I'm over it now and I don't really care what other Hubbers think of me, but I think this is a valid thread.
  
  I do think your points and complaints are valid as well though. If that makes any difference.
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  Jean Bakulaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cardisa,
  You are well liked and many of us know you kept writing in spite of the fact that you were in pain and your heart was breaking. Writing also helps me keep my mind off things I need to stop fretting about. I do think there is a bit of "us" and "them" here at HP, but it's not the fault of the people in this apprentice program. I've seen some awful hubs written by supposed "good" writers on the staff, things I would never publish. When I first came to HP, I used to write about 3 hubs a week, but it took me about 8 hours for each one, a whole day's work. I could make pretty good money working that long at a job, but HP isn't a job, it's a hobby that does offer a chance to make a little money too. I think that's the spirit in which people should look at it. Maybe young people with little responsibility can write hubs faster, but adults with children, who work, or take care of sick relatives, have to really try hard just to find time to write a hub! I have not applied to the program, though I think I could benefit from it. But at this point there are so many changes, I feel afraid about the site in general, and am not writing on it much. But whoever takes time to learn more and advance should feel great about themself for taking a positive step in life! Don't listen to sour grapes!
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IzzyMposted 11 years ago
Yes Cardisa did well

It would be nice if some of you would care to comment on the situation of the hubber who was told she couldn't participate because her work was substandard, when it obviously wasn't.

Or the hubber getting rejected from the program who is one of the highest earners ever on HP?

I don't dispute it is hard work.

But it is not open to everyone - that makes it elitist - which takes us right back to the whole argument over the title of hub greeters.

It's not the badge so much. It's the differential it creates between hubbers.

I'm actually not that bothered.

I am bothered when I read of perfectly good hubbers getting rejected from the program, but that doesn't mean I have a problem with those of you who are on it, or have undertaken it.

Kudos, I believe is the modern day term.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Izzy this is my point, those hubbers should take up their grouse with HP. HP staff owes them an explanation for being rejected. I am really shocked to hear that HP has told people that their work is substandard and I would love to get to the bottom of that. But is seems to me that a lot of negativity is directed towards us "pets" as some people may call us.
  
  But asking that our badges be removed when we are in the forums is not reasonable.
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2uesdayposted 11 years ago
I remember working in places where they pinned the holiday list up on your day off and when you looked at it there were no spaces left in the good months
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gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago
To those wonderfully esteemed hubbers who are Apprentices, I am going to give what the young people call a shout out and what we older people call immense congratulations on work well done: Cardisa, Wilderness, Shanna11, Habee, Summerberrie, SimeyC, Marcy Goodfleisch, Cperuzzi, and the illustrious others who participated and intend to particpate in the program, a thunderous and heartfelt congratulations and best of luck. VOTED all of YOU APPRENTICES UP and EXTREMELY INTERESTING!
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  
  Thank you.
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bean3185296328795posted 11 years ago
I agree with this statement 110%. It's important and keeps the community as a whole stronger
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brakel2posted 11 years ago
I think that you will always find people, even in school, who resent smart people, beautiful people, high achievers, and all the things that they are not. The problem here is that we get to listen to them in the forum, and it gets old after a while. Then there are the people who don't make it. We feel badly for them. One thing I have learned is you must have a thick skin to be in a forum. If we could see each other and not be faceless, it might be better. It is what it is. Cardisa, you are so nice and sweet, and have been through a lot. I give you a hug from afar. Apprentices, we love you for all your hard work. Some day there will be better understanding among all.
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emilgen2011posted 11 years ago
Cardisa,

Congrats on being an apprentice and to those who earn the much-coveted "A," on their badge. Your haters are as useful as your friends since they will challenge you further to come up with high quality and compelling write-ups.

I am one of those hopefuls that didn't made the cull but I am perfectly alright and I am so happy for those who made it. HP provided me the opportunity to express my thoughts, share ideas and earn extra income... And I am so happy with my page views too. My two account's combined page views is doing well now and so excited with it. One of them will eventually breach the 1 million page views 30 to 40 days from now...

With the break you have now I hope you will able to rake in a lot of page views more than mine and earn a lot in the coming days. The haters are probably jealous with that nice break you just carved out...

Kind regards,
Gener
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psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago
Another way to look at is is that comments about these programs are not actually about the people who happen to be in them. They are just about the mechanics of the programs as set up.
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tirelesstravelerposted 11 years ago
My Dear, Congratulations. Those who are complaining need to look at the requirements for the program. It takes blood sweat and tears to make it through.
I am so sorry about the loss of your brother..
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xstaticposted 11 years ago
I had no idea that there was bad feelings about anyone who worked hard enough to get the badge. It is an investment of time that I would not be willing to make and I admire those who do accomplish the task.
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Bronwyn J Hansenposted 11 years ago
I have been around long enough to know that people have bad feelings about anyone & everyone here. I just ignore it. In Cardisa's case, it is just narrow minded people who cannot be bothered to put the effort into achieving something here on HP.
Cardisa (and all the other Elites & Apprentices) have worked their rear ends off. Hats off to them all.
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habeeposted 11 years ago
To gmwilliams: Thanks!

To Cardisa: Wow. You deserve another badge - T.O.Y. Trooper Of (the) Year!

To Leah: A TOY badge goes to you, also!
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That Grrlposted 11 years ago
I have some account problem which prevents me from joining anything like the apprenticeship program. (I tried twice, then gave up). I don't have ill will to any who have done it - or have extra letters or badges from work they have done here. I'm working on my own goals at HubPages. If it weren't for the badges I don't think I would have set myself a lofty goal. It's fun having something to reach for, beyond traffic.
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DzyMsLizzyposted 11 years ago
For what it's worth, there's the old adage, "You can't please all of the people all of the time." To which I have added my own corollary: "And you can't please some of the people any of the time!" Those latter, you simply ignore as not worthy of your time or notice.

I admire the tenacity and dedication it takes to go through these advanced programs...which is exactly why I have not applied to either the 'elites' or the 'apprentice' programs. I already have too much on my plate to deal with right now, and I know I cannot afford to spread myself any thinner.

Let's have a big HUZZAH!! HUZZAH!! HUZZAH!! for those who have mastered these advanced challenges!
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Xenonlitposted 11 years ago
You earned your badges and no one should bring you down for that. Ignore the haters.
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carol7777posted 11 years ago
Where do people have the time for all this pettiness. I think being accepted into the AP is an honor and one you deserve. I am always glad for people's success stories as it hypes me up to do better. Sorry about your tough time..Just keep writing.
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Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years ago
Cardisa,

Congratulations on making it through the Apprenticeship program during such a trying time. It really shows that your are highly motivated, and deserving.

I think we all understand that space in the program is very limited compared to all of the people applying for it. It's a bit ironic, that people who did not get in are resentful toward those who have been accepted. If they'd had their way, they'd have that "a" on their avatar.

I am among those who were not accepted, so I know that it does sting a little. After some of the things I've heard about it I'm not sure that I will re-apply. Of course I knew about the requirements for number of hubs, and the mentoring sounds helpful. I could use an education in SEO, but I'm not so sure I want to be pushed into a niche. I kind of like bouncing around to whatever subject I choose.
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  DzyMsLizzyposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I know exactly what you mean about 'niches.' I, too, am more of a generalist, so that's another reason I probably won't apply. But I still congratulate those who have completed the challenge!
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Cardisaposted 11 years ago
Thanks to everyone for their kind comments. Maybe the term "haters" was too strong but I just can't understand the negativity.
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divacratusposted 11 years ago
This doesn't sound good at all. Where's the healthy competitive spirit? Hope things get resolved soon.
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2uesdayposted 11 years ago
I responded because it was Cardisa and I have always thought she was helpful in the forums.
I also guessed and maybe wrongly, that this thing about the a badge may have touched on the forum posts she took in the past about the e badge.

Some days my only thoughts here are would n't it be nice if the site evolved into a feeling of working together for the best for the writers here. You do sometime get the feeling that you cannot do a thing right for fear of doing the wrong thing. I guess I will have to try to respond or get drawn in less ( I always was the one with spare sticking plasters in my handbag). Anyway I am now too busy to hang round in forums, as Christmas is less than a month away.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You are right 2uesday, it's just this badge thing has gotten out of hand. The "e" badge has now been resolved but now see that that people feel rejected, sort of, because they didn't get in the program or the kind of response they got from HP because they didn't get in.
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2uesdayposted 11 years ago
It might be a good idea if Hubpages provided a less public way of raising points with them and airing minor grievances to keep it off the main forums.

Sometimes emails or the official forums do not seem the right place and as it is things can ends up going round in circles and not achieving much, except acting as a vent. I am thinking of a more advanced version of a suggestion box that dealt with questions and minor problems. I know what is here already, but maybe it is not really ticking all the boxes. I can see that the idea might be a full time job for someone so then it is not really possible.

Sorry, if I do not really get what is happening here.
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CloudExplorerposted 11 years ago
I didn't need a Badge to hit the top 25 out of all the 135,671 Published Users here did I (For the month of Nov in terms of HP Stats - Ask Alocsin he wrote the hub all about it), ummm those who hate folks here, let em hate, because I love it when my writing ability, motivation for life, knowledge, skills, life experiences, drive, and determination to come out on top speaks for itself.

Sharing faily with others is the other half of the equation here in the HP community, and those whom are fake about it all are always the ones who tend to be the most soar in the end as well, because the truth hurts.

I care for no badge, I did try to apply for the Wagon wheel thingy here on HP, but its all good I was rejected for not having good grammar or perfect spelling, and also for a minor HP violation for submitting a substandard hub, but who's complaining that was all the work of my very own misfortunes here as a writer just starting out. (There is no arguing with rules, and documented terms of use)

People we need to wake up, the world needs fixing, either your in it for the long haul, which is with those who are trying to help fix it, or not. Either way the truth will set us all free, as its been ordained in the scriptures, and I'm not even getting religious, I'm just trying to be real!!

Go get em Cardisa, You go Girl!!!!!!!!
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psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago
I honesty think many of the comments interpreted by some as insults or attacks... weren't.
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Will Apseposted 11 years ago
Envy is one of the ugliest emotions. And it is pretty shocking to me that apprentices come in for so much of it.
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Janhornerposted 11 years ago
Hi, I've only read your points of view and have not read any of the comments. I am deeply sorry to hear that you are so upset. You have been through the mill (as we call it here in the UK) and I hope with time you will start to feel better.

Wishing you well, believe in yourself, and disregard any negative people.

Jan x
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abbykorinneleeposted 11 years ago
Congratulations on your apprenticeship:)) Not everyone is haters....
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psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago
I would suggest people read the thread for themselves before all agreeing that a fellow hubber is a nasty 'hater' based on a second hand account. And if you do think it is hateful, maybe discuss it directly with her rather than sitting on the sidelines discussing at length how horrible she is.
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wjack2010posted 11 years ago
I'm just annoyed at how they used my thread to vent their anger, I asked a simple question and everyone turned it into an argument that I ended up leaving my own thread. Not good as a new starter here to be honest.
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psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago
Reacting by starting a thread to demonize and silence dissent isn't doing much to convince me that the issues raised (which I previously had no opinion about) were off base.
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theraggededgeposted 11 years ago
I haven't experienced any negativity regarding the AP at all, but then I am not so active in the forums. However, if I did, I would just ignore it. That person doesn't know me and doesn't know how AP takes over your whole life for the duration.

In any case, sniping, rudeness or derision usually says more about the person who writes it than about the one on the receiving end
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Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years ago
I have a question about the Apprenticeship program. Do you need to have the mentor approve your hubs before they can be published?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No - you can publish at any time. The mentor will tell you if the hub doesn't meet the requirements - potentially producing a hub that doesn't conform to the requirements could lead to removal from the AP...
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cleaner3posted 11 years ago
I know not of badges or programs but only use the hubs to explore others works and give encouragement to the new people ,who have come into the hubs with expectations of greatness or dreams of making big money here. From my short time on the hubs I have found out that are "snobs and elitists" within the poetry groups who fear the new artists through some jealousy means by not reading their work and saying that they are not worthy of their time, instead of encouraging them to keep writing and trying harder. I write for the joy of writing and not to try to make money, although I do try to write a certain amount of poems or works, I do not try to maintain a certain standard that Hubpages wants from their contributors. But the truth is their is good and bad all over the internet and , like others have said if you feel something is wrong with the program do not participate .
this is just my opinion .
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  TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cardisa: There will always be people in the world who complain and whine about everything. Don't take it personally. You've done a great job here, and you're on the right path...don't let those attackers get to you. Maybe if they'd spend more time writing great hubs and less time whining, they'd be doing as well as you!
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  psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's either okay to complain, or it isn't. Otherwise it comes down to: it's okay for me to complain about you and call you names (this thread)--but off limits for you to complain about me and call me names (that thread).
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think this thread is a personal attack on me by a hubber who obviously has a problem with me.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Izzy, there goes the misunderstanding again.
  
  I started this thread because this is not the first time I have seen this fussing over a badge or group here on HP. It touched a sore note because I have experienced such negative behavior before and, whereas the "e" badge was not earned the "a" was.
  
  You were definitely not the reason I started this thread and you were definitely not the only one to vent your feeling about the program in the other thread. You were not the first or only persons to refer to the APs as pets so this thread is not directed at you.
  
  I strongly believe that persons who were rejected from the program should take that up with HP an not vent on the apprentices. I am sure the person who originally asked the question now has reservations about applying due to all the negative feedback there.
  
  I apologize if this seems to be directed towards you and do not have a problem with you as you have always been one of my favorite people to talk to here in the forums. Sorry about that.
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  psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You just seems to have said it was in fact directed at her, just not her alone. It is clearly directed at other hubbers and causing them to be insulted and demeaned just as you were.
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It is not, and I repeat, not directed at hubbers but the issue caused by other hubbers....got that? There is a difference you know.
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for that. I spent a very uncomfortable evening wondering what I had said to make you think that I have a problem with you or even with other Apprentices.
  
  I wondered too if I had badly worded some comments to make it look that way, and am happy to apologise if it came across that way.
  
  Life it too short for pettiness (oops the 'pet' word again lol).
  
  We should all lighten up. No-one is against the apprentices, but we all have the right to discuss the program especially when it is not open to everyone.
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  gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  To TIMETRAVELER2, amen a multillion times, preach it to the choir! There are some people who still believe in the premise that everyone is to get a trophy!
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  Diane Woodsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I too write for the enjoyment of it, However there are many go-getters that try to whine and complain, and its just plain not professional conduct on their part. Competitive work is one facet, the other is Professionalism. Those who try and counteract towards your work should be banned from posting, in my honest opinion. Keep the positives, throw away the negatives and don't listen to anyone who thwarts your excellent attempts in your writing.
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psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago
I think an educated engagement with your peers and employers is professional. As is not taking things personally, and not trying to put our fire with gasoline.
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Mark Ewbieposted 11 years ago
Oh ffs.

Firstly congratulations to Cardisa, and best wishes.

Next. To say that any thread should not be started when you look at the mind numbingly boring other stuff - "how many words can I pull out of my ass" that makes up 90% of the threads - Jeez.

If you don't like the thread how about f--king off elsewhere?

Cardisa has a valid point. Why attack those who have a badge?

Either get a badge or get over it.

The ultimate arbiter of anything on here here is not the spam Facebook buddies, or the HP cliques, or HP itself - it is traffic. I suspect I could benefit from the "A" thing but I don't have time.

HP wanted to improve it's content and chose a way of doing it that they thought was right. It's their site, and people's choice if they want to try for it.

Just my two pence worth.

Oh and Cardisa remains the only person I have ever done a portrait for... it's funny how you make connections online, when people seem like the right sort.

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  prettydarkhorseposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You are a genius, ME! :-)
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  Cardisaposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Mark, I look so beautiful.....wow...you do me justice!
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. And i love the portrait!
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Sarra Garrettposted 11 years ago
I am not taking anything out on the Hubbers here. I have enjoyed all of my followers, my responses and forums. The best part about being human is everyone has an opinion. I didn't mean to start a war I was just making a statement.

To set the record straight and to free myself from being burned at the stake let me say that those who have been accepted into the AP program: "Bravo to you". You all are excellent writers and have had the ability to have an education in the writing field before you joined HP. Me, not so much.

I remember in school I had to write a short story for English class. I started my story at the end and then completed my story with the beginning. I thought I was being creative and if I say so myself it was a good story. My teacher threw my story back at me with my very first "F" and screamed "The end comes last" or something close to that.

Low and behold many movies and books today start with the ending......Gee maybe I had something going on. It took 20+ years for me to get up the guts to write again. I'm not the best, but you know what? I have readers and followers. I tell my stories from the heart and am passionate about what I write.

So, blllppp to my teacher and the same to HP. I was born on my own, live on my own, survive on my own and will die on my own. I will continue to write and tell my stories, I will continue to write and tell my ideas on helping the homeless and try to make this a better world and I will continue to write about what I am passionate about. Homelessness, Veterans, The lack of jobs, Trying to make money, Animal Rescue and Animal Therapy.

Just because you have an "a" next to your avitar doesn't mean that your getting the biggest cookie in the jar. It simply means you went through a teaching opportunity to improve your writing. I don't have an extended school education, however, I have so far passed the school of hard knocks and have accomplished and survived more in my life than most have.

I am a survivor of life, I live simply, love my son, love my dogs and love God. I don't wish any ill will upon anyone even my enemies. However, if given the opportunity even at my age of 50 to better myself I'm going to jump at the chance. Where I am right now there is no where else to go but up. I'm not 20, I'm 50. An old grey mare that has seen better days that has many broken bones. I have fought for my Country in third world places, believe in the Pledge of Alligence and the Constitution. I'm no better than anyone else because you know why? I pull my pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else.
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Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years ago
I would love it if someone who has been through the Apprenticeship program would write a hub detailing their experience. I think it would be very instructive for would-be applicants.
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  Shanna11posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Haha, I'm tempted to write a Hub about my experience.
  
  "Today, I pulled an all nighter, studying for a French and economics test in the morning. I then wrote a paper for my religious course, dragged my battered body and bruised mind up a hill to campus to turn in the assignment and take the tests, and then collapsed in a subterranean corner of the library and numbly chugged out eight hubs on the last day of the month in order to meet quota before going to work at a museum as a tour guide with a bunch of ornery reptiles with long, sharp claws. It was a long, bloody day."
  
  Honestly, I will be the first person to say that I think I do not exemplify the traits of a good Hubpages writer or member of the program. I had too much going on and I couldn't devote the time or excellence required to the program. I honestly feel guilty that I took the spot of someone who probably deserved it more than me.
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  Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  But you did complete the program, so the spot was not "wasted." I seem to remember you early on in the program singing it's praises in the forums, I bet you got a lot out of it. That's exactly the kind of hub I would be interested in reading. Neither slamming the program nor promoting it, but telling what it's like in the trenches.
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  Shanna11posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It was a really good program and I loved it, but I could have done better in it, I think.
  
  I'll see if I can find time to do write such a Hub!
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  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yup. That's the part that doesn't gel. Why we can't all get the same information.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  My sentiments exactly, made last night. I don't necessarily want to know what the program was like, but what has been learned and how other writers can apply those teachings to their own work. I don't understand why this structured learning cannot be rolled out to the rest of us in the form of sequenced hubs. I see great benefits for all in this regard.
  
  Personally, I'm don't care who has a badge, or who's on the program or whatever. I'd just relish the opportunity for development as an online writer. If the education is valuable and free, count me in. And this could work for so many people who may not be in a position to undertake the 8 hubs per month, but develop at their own pace. If feedback is required there are forums for that, too.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie,
  Maybe as the program progresses and is perfected HP will put a direct link to the lessons in the learning center. I think that would be a positive move in the right direction.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I do to. But in terms of the hubs, something much more detailed. The best use of capsules, the best use of keyword phrases, how to correctly tag images etc. All this may be obvious to some- but there are so many contradictory writings in this regard. if someone could put together a best practice, what works kind of hub- even using evidence, mentors, for example, must have experimented with different things. These lessons could be really valuable for those who wish to take advantage of them and also for HP. The better the quality of the writing here, the better for everyone.
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think, but don't know for sure, that HP don't want everyone to know how to make a successful hub in case the spammers cotton on.
  
  For that reason alone, I would be happy if no apprentices published a hub detailing what is required.
  
  But I would hope at least one of them would contact you privately, and send you the information you require.
  
  You are obviously not a spammer!
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, so that could be it. I'd been wondering why the elements of a successful hub had not been written about, that's what I meant by what's the secret, what am I missing?
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie,
  If this appeals to you great, if not then that's okay too.
  
  The first lesson is engaging layout. Use capsules to create an attractive layout. Own photos preferable but if not your own then proper citation is required.
  A good example is the HOTD by ktrap:
  http://ktrapp.hubpages.com/hub/best-hot … ood-chains
  
  Here are your titles this month:
  
  Best Medicinal Plants for Arthritis
  How to Find Medicinal Plants
  Top Useful Medicinal Plants
  Backyard Medicinal Plants
  
  Let us here in this thread know when you have completed them and we will read, comment and provide feedback. All feedback from fellow hubbers will be welcomed.
  
  Next assignment will be on writing your own titles using Ad words effectively.
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  ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks summerberrie
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Brilliant, thank you Summerberrie. It does appeal to me, the only thing is I couldn't complete all these titles this month due to other pre-arranged writing commitments. But I could certainly make a start.
  
  Also, I'm not saying I'm a dinosaur but some of those titles suggest to me at least that I'd need to provide some evidence and therefore references. When I went to university I always used the Harvard style of referencing, and I'm guessing that using multiple quotations throughout the article is not ideal for the internet. As we're only able to use two outgoing links, how best should we reference so readers can find verifiable data to substantiate our claims?
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You are only limited to two outgoing links to the same domain.
  
  And I believe there are exceptions to that rule too, as certain authority sites can be referred to more often.
  
  You could have 42 links to different domains in the one hub. 100 even.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Brilliant, I didn't realise that Izzy. Thank you, now I know what I'm doing.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Take your time. That is why most people seem not to apply for the program is time restraint. If there are any of the titles that appeal to you then just start a new hub using the title and let them sit and work on them when you can.
  
  You can paraphrase what you research and then at the end of the article cite the source. Some have done this in the program. I'll find an example when I get a chance.
  
  Or like IzzyM says use links.
  
  I just glanced at your bio and made some titles based on it...noticed you also like travel and cooking. I can find a set of titles based on those interest if it makes you feel more comfortable? But I think Medicinal Plants makes a pretty cool niche.
  
  Holly, if anything this gives others a taste of the program. Pretty cut and dry. Midway through you are given feedback. If changes are not made to meet the requirements then you are out or if you can not complete the eight you are out.
  
  They will not tell you how to make your hubs more engaging outside of some examples and a few ideas ( pretty much in the learning center). It is up to you to figure it out.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, Summerberrie. I've moved most of my hubs so to be a honest what still remains is not a true reflection of my interests, which are broad and include: The environmental sciences, herbology (so the titles you have already offered more than appealed to me) food inequality, local history; the Temperance movement in Manchester (specifically) women and the criminal justice system in the UK, as offenders, suspects and victims,
  
  Food, yes, definitely, but I'm also a vegetarian moving towards veganism. Just a few short months ago I still bought, handled and cooked meat for my son and daughter, who are now 15 and 20 years so we're reached an agreement that if they want to eat meat, they prepare it.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wow! Great interests!
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  Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That would be great, a kind of Home Study program, and we could learn how to critique one another. I tend to function better with a deadline, but I suppose I could do without that aspect of the AP. Another positive of a DIY program is that people who were not able to finish for whatever reason could have a second chance to learn the lessons.
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I did the 60 day challenge, set by Sunforged
  
  That's probably where HP got the idea for the apprenticeship program.
  
  We had to go off HP to stay in touch with each other. I fail to see why HP can't make the program open to more people. They have the resources.
  
  Basically we had to write 30 hubs in 30 days, then spend the next 30 days on promotion.
  
  As a newbie to online writing, I learned a tremendous amount during that period. Not that I was that much of a newbie. I'd been here over a year but just didn't 'get it'.
  
  The difference between the 60 day challenge and the apprenticeship program is that the AP program concentrates on hubs. Their title (I am still hopeless at that), their searchability, their length, their muliti-media potential. We had the most important bits of that, but not all.
  
  I have learned since participating in the 60 day challenge, that off-page SEO can be largely ignored if you get the on-page stuff right.
  
  It's simply not good enough to be a good writer.
  
  You have to repeat certain keyword phrases, but in a natural way.
  
  That takes skill, practice, and a whole lot more.
  
  I got it almost right, then I got it completely wrong after some gentle criticism by HP's CEO (I'm being generous here), and now I am working on getting it right again.
  
  Meanwhile, I am getting on with life
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hollie - I believe that all we learn is actually on the learning center - the difference is that in the AP you get personal feedback from mentors - it's simply not possible for HP to give personal feedback to everyone!
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If you count the mentors, plus the alums, then yes it is possible.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm more than willing to 'mentor' a few hubbers - I can't promise to be as active as the HP mentors as I have a full time job, but I can look at someone's hubs and tell them what we learnt and how they could improve the hub using our lessons...
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  How many hubbers are there? Anybody know?
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  5? Ok there are 10 of us really.
  
  Myself, I have 10 other subs, and I was a late learner.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There's about 12 hubbers and 3 million sock puppets
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, SimeyC! Excellent point!
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gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago
I have learned a lot by participating in this forum. I am now going to correct some of my stagnant hubs and give them life. I am going to study up on social media.
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Victoria Lynnposted 11 years ago
Cardisa, I totally get what you're saying. People seem to WANT to be negative. I read some of the comments, and I don't think the AP is elitist. Like Miss Olive pointed out, there aren't enough staff to run the site plus mentor more than a few hubbers at a time through the program. That's probably why it takes so long to get in the program. I waited about 5 months and suddenly was accepted. There are just so many requirements and so many writers like others have pointed out. If a hubber wants in the program, they probably will be accepted if they're patient and continue to write quality stuff.

Anyway, you made quite an accomplishment getting through the program with all you have gone through. I think about what happened to your brother from time to time and wonder how you are getting along. I can't imagine going through that. I hope you have some peace.
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Victoria Lynnposted 11 years ago
And why do people say the program isn't open to everyone? Do they mean people that only write poetry, perhaps? I didn't catch what was meant by that.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think meaning people who haven't been accepted, or can't for whatever reasons meet the demands of the course within a given timescale because of other commitments. That's what I meant anyway, I can't speak for anyone else.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  But it's still open to everyone. It just might not be the right time for them.
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No it isn't.
  
  Maybe you should read the 'other thread'.
  
  Several hubbers, well known and sometimes very successful hubbers - have been knocked back.
  
  I could understand why if their hubs were substandard, but they're not.
  
  On hubber in particular is (and always has been) one of HP's highest earners.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well, that person can keep applying. They can't take in everybody at once. Was he or she given a reason? Maybe he/she doesn't need the program? A lot of the training is pretty basic stuff.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree - there are probably 20 or 30 writers (that I know of) that would not benefit from the AP - they are already applying everything we learn and more!
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, they would be bored to death by some of the lessons if they already know it and apply it. :-)
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not talking about myself, so I don't know, I'm not talking about anyone specific either. But I have to say, if the course is so general, why is it so demanding?
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Firstly you have to create at least 8 hubs a month that meet the requirements of the AP - I used to produce 3 or 4 hubs a week - but those simply were not high quality and only took an hour or so to create. I now create 5 to 8 hubs a month - most take 8 or more hours to produce, research, format etc. When you consider that most of the AP have jobs, lives etc. - to spend 64 hours a month creating hubs is a huge commitment.
  
  There are a lot of lessons - and while most of it is common sense, you still have to read them - I learnt quite a bit!!!
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't stop there, either, Simey.
  
  I know you were one of the more prolific posters in the AP forum and that you read and critiqued many hubs each month. That takes time, and a lot of it.
  
  I'm right with you at around 8 hours to produce an AP hub, but would bet either one of us averaged another 20 hours per month in the forums or reading hubs. That's 2 weeks of work each month, and not everyone can do that.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's not general, per se, Hollie; it just covers things we should be putting into our hubs, things more experienced hubbers are probably already doing. And a lot needs to be included in each hub. Plus there are the lessons to read and apply.
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  IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  One woman was told she was a substandard writer. Yet her writing was A1? She had applied to learn how to maximise earnings, which is a damned good reason in anyone's books.
  
  Another was one of HP's top earners, if not THE top earner.
  
  Whether you can write successful hubs or not, shouldn't you also be offered payment for it?
  I am very. very disappointed in HP over this whole issue.
  
  Really.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I would say the top earner probably doesn't need the AP . . . ? Just a thought. Probably already knows how to use keywords, different capsules, etc . . . I would think so.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's open to everyone to apply, yes. But open to everyone to apply is not the same as open to everyone to take advantage of the program. I'm not being negative, or critical of AP's- just saying that there might be alternative ways to access the learning for those who have been rejected or who cannot make the huge commitment. Just looking for solutions to the current problems.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I was rejected at first. People just need to be patient. Like several have said, they can't take everyone who applies all at once. And if they can't make the commitment, that's their own personal issue. That doesn't mean it's not available to them if they're accepted.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think SimeyC said it well. The Learning Center has all the info needed and more, just not the mentors.
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  Sherry Hewinsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I was under the impression that there were lessons the Apprentices had to study each week. If it's already in the Learning Center, why would they need lessons? Having already search optimized titles provided for the first month seems like it would be pretty instructive. Much more in-depth than the title advise in the Learning Center.
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The lessons force one to apply the things in them. It's structured.
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  summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This is true. The lesson are pretty much the same. You are just required to use them and are given feedback if you have/have not used them effectively.
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  SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I, like many people, have never really looked at the learning center. The AP is designed to introduce you to many elements - all of the advice we learnt is in the learning center - but having to do lessons made me actually read the stuff.
  
  It's structured to slowly add more and more detail - and as I have to use the lessons to create 8 hubs then I am forced to study them.
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think that mostly those lessons were put together in a way that flowed, that over time produced the effect that HP wants.
  
  In a classroom, there are always prerequisites for additional classes and that's part of it. Example hubs were listed. Everyone was on the same subject that month. Things like that. The basic information was the same as the learning center, or very close to it, just presented and required in a timeline rather than helter skelter.
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DzyMsLizzyposted 11 years ago
After reading the various comments here, and how the OP got a bit "off track" going instead toward what is involved in the programs... I am beginning to wonder if the whole SEO keywords "thing" can be wrapped up inside the OLD standby of print media journalism:

"Tell them what you're going to tell them, then tell them, then tell them what you told them."

In other words, an intro (your "hook"), the details of the topic (body of article) and a recap (summary/conclusion).

That, to me, is what "repeat keywords in a 'natural' "way seems to be saying..... So, in reality, there is nothing new under the sun...or, "what's old is new again."
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  Victoria Lynnposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, just like a good essay. (I'm an English teacher. ) :-)
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  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you can do all that, but this is the search engines. You have to find a way to get found. In print media, the magazines and papers are in every shop. People who might be going into the shop to buy cigarettes can also see the magazines. Whereas, on the internet, if you're searching for an e-cigarette, you're not necessarily going to be introduced to unrelated, albeit interesting, content. So the approach is different, the marketing is different.
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  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No. That's not it at all. Victoria mentions an essay, but (speaking of SEO) it is not an essay at all. It is an attempt to teach a (literally) stupid algorithm what you are writing about. The reader (speaking of SEO) is immaterial; all that matters is to teach that agorithm.
  
  The easiest way is to repeat the keywords 500 times and walk away. Unfortunately that leaves the reader high and dry, completely uninformed about the information they came for. Therein lies the trick; to write an interesting article that flows well, provides the reader with what they want, is easy to read and easy to navigate through. AND teach that algorithm at the same time without ruining the readers experience.
  
  Once that is accomplished, figure out how to keep the reader a little longer. How to prevent them from bouncing away from your subdomain. Do that in such a way that it does not confuse that algorithm and along the way convince the algorithm that it did a good thing when it sent YOU that reader instead of sending them somewhere else.
  
  While you do all that, never forget that the algorithm is looking for top quality writing to send its searchers to, but won't define what top quality is. It will look for, and choose results based on, quality but will never ever define it for you so you know how to write quality work.
  reply report

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