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RESOLVED: Bonus tally is incorrect

  1. Bendo13 profile image85
    Bendo13posted 4 years ago

    I was just checking out the "Bonus Program" where you can earn a little extra based on how many hubs you've posted and how much each one is earning... but there's a problem with the tally.

    Mine says...
    "Number of Hubs first published prior to last month: 643"
    Whenever I really only have 499 published hubs.

    So, it appears to me that this tally is for all the hubs you ever published, even if they are long gone and deleted.  And if it's this way on everyone's account then people are missing out on the bonuses they deserve. 

    Because if you use the incorrect total tally to figure out the average amount each hub is earning then it will be way off.

    Like for me, last month I earned $34.88 through the HP Ad program...
    So, if you divide that by 643 then you might think my hubs on average only earned 5 cents last month.
    But in reality they earned about 7 cents each... since you need to divide by 499 (the number of actual published hubs).

    So, obviously I'm not pointing this out for myself because I'll never get anything out of the bonus program, but I have a feeling that a lot of people are missing out on their bonuses because of this error in the system.

    1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
      mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I have never heard of a 'bonus program' here on HP, can you link to any information on this as I am at a loss to know how I missed it? Cheers smile

      1. Bendo13 profile image85
        Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Go to your account, click earnings and it's on the left - third from the bottom.

        1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
          mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I have 'Balance History' in that location, and none of the other options refer to a 'bonus program'.

          1. Bendo13 profile image85
            Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Do you have HP Ads enabled?
            It says it's for top hubbers but I wouldn't see why you wouldn't be included. 

            I thought this was a sitewide thing.. hmm.

            It's mentioned once in the FAQ when talking about the Apprenticeship Program, but I'm not in that program.  I applied but they didn't take me.

            1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
              mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yep, I am in the HP Ad program and earn three figure sums every month. My views per day are well over 4 figures. I am not and have never been in (or applied for) the apprenticeship program.

              1. Bendo13 profile image85
                Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hmm, I'm not sure.  Either way the tally is wrong.

    2. A Driveby Quipper profile image60
      A Driveby Quipperposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      What? One of the most creative, fun and prolific sites around? What's that per hour? Did you earn enough from your clever placement of "sales" capsules to make it worth your while? Otherwise .  .  . why bother?

  2. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
    mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/7568421_f248.jpg

    This is what I see!

    1. Bendo13 profile image85
      Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not sure why I see it and you don't, unless you don't have HP Ads enabled...

      I've never earned through the "Bonus Program" before so I'm not sure why it's there for me and not you.

      1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
        mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Please can you link to that or quote from the section of the Apprenticeship Program info as I can't find it right now? Thanks smile

  3. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
    mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago

    Found the reference to it now, but still mystified as to what it actually is.

    Also can you link to where you saw it state it 'was for top hubbers' too please. Cheers smile

    1. Pearldiver profile image88
      Pearldiverposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Surely not.... This is a Transparent site isn't it?   sad   
      Well... for so labelled 'Top' Hubbers anyway!  roll 
      What specifically are the terms of judgment???

      Oops Bendo.... don't think that cat was supposed to be let out of the bag!!  smile   
      But hey.. thanks though smile   Most enlightening and endorses the justification for asking direct questions! smile

      1. Bendo13 profile image85
        Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, I don't really know... That program was brought about a long time ago and when it was first mentioned to me I was told everyone was going to get to be a part of it.  I didn't sign up for it or anything and it's obvious I can't earn through it so I don't get it.

  4. Susana S profile image92
    Susana Sposted 4 years ago

    I think the bonus program is something to do with the apprenticeship program. Apprentices get paid an upfront sum for the hubs they write while on the program.

    http://hubpages.com/faq/#apprenticeship

    1. Bendo13 profile image85
      Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, but I'm not in that program.  I applied but they turned me down.
      All I wanted to mention is that there's a flaw in that system.

      But it appears that it's not sitewide like I was told it was going to be.  The bonus program pretty much encourages you to write more often and to ensure that every hub is earning well on average.

    2. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
      mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      This is not the $6 bonus we are referring to though, this is the 'elevated tier in the Hubpages Bonus Program that apprentices are eligible for'. It is clearly worded to indicate that it is a program that exists for Hubbers in general, but that being an apprentice puts you on a higher tier during your time in the program. Trouble is it seems hardly anyone knows anything about it or is on it (I don't know about apprentices). Bendo13 is not an apprentice however, and he is in the bonus program but doesn't know how.

      http://hubpages.com/faq/#apprenticeship

      1. Susana S profile image92
        Susana Sposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think the sentence does refer to the (measly) $6 bonus per article. My reading of it doesn't imply all hubbers, just apprentices.  Weird how it can be read so differently by different people.

        "Apprentices are also placed in an elevated tier in the HubPages Bonus Program for the duration of their program participation, which means that they get an added up-front bonus of just over $6.00 for each Hub they publish."

        I think it's a glitch in Bendo's account. That or he's been accepted and doesn't realise.

        1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
          mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          From what I understand this 'Bonus' scheme has been around since before the apprenticeship scheme. Also how can they be on an 'elevated tier' as participants in the program, as this implies there are lower tiers for mere mortals?

          Edit, plus if you read Bendo13's original post he actually makes it clear that it is not the $6 bonus he is talking about Quote:

          "I was just checking out the "Bonus Program" where you can earn a little extra based on how many hubs you've posted and how much each one is earning... but there's a problem with the tally."

          1. mattforte profile image94
            mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Apprentices are automatically placed on tier 7, with the 4x4 double bonus which nets them $6.09 per hub. They also have rigorous standards for staying in the apprenticeship program, specifically for this reason.

            Your tier is based on your "per hub" earnings for the month prior. If your average earnings per hub (including deleted hubs) last month were say, $1.00 - you would be on tier 1, earning you $0.50 for each hub you publish. If you have published at least 4 hubs every month for the past 4 months, then you are eligible for the "4x4 bonus" which means as tier 1 you would get $1.00 for each hub published instead.

            Also, there are minimum thresholds. If your average earnings per hub (including deleted hubs) did not break $0.95 per hub (I think this alone disqualifies most hubbers. They will probably disagree, but you have to remember to include hubs you've deleted, even if they were deleted long ago) then you aren't eligible for even tier 1. This is probably why so many people are unaware of the program. You also need a bare minimum of 10 hubs published to earn anything with the program.

            I make good per-hub earnings, although I have 10+ hubs that I've deleted. I have a small quantity of hubs, and though I expect to be hitting tier 4 next month...I've only been on tiers 1 and 2 since exiting the apprenticeship program. My point is - a lot of hubbers here have hundreds of hubs and don't even make payout monthly. Even if you do make $50 a month, that doesn't matter if you have 100 hubs ($.50 per hub is far below the threshold for tier 1)

            The purpose of the program is to reward and encourage quality content; content that HubPages will want to pay for up front.

            1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
              mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I make payout multiple times over each and every month, I would say I average about $1.10 per hub over a month, and I have over 280 hubs. Over a year and a half ago I had about 310 hubs, but in those days I was earning over $25 dollars a day from HP, and I was still never notified about the bonus program in spite of this being around $2.41 as an average per hub per month.

              1. mattforte profile image94
                mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You "had" 310 hubs, now you have 280. I assume you are calculating your average earnings based on your 280 - which is exactly what I was trying to explain doesn't work.
                You have to count all the hubs you've ever written - deleted or not. I'm assuming you've deleted a lot more than 30. (Surely you've deleted some, and added some) So if you've written over, say, 400 ever - then that average earning is going to be a LOT lower.

                On the other hand, if you are counting every hub you've deleted (I'll be amazed if you've kept track) then it must be something else.

                Also, over a year and a half ago does not matter. This 4x4 plan was brought forth with the apprenticeship program hand in hand. I was in the very first group - which started in March or April of 2012, much less than a year and a half ago.

                1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
                  mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I worked out my averages on the 310 figure, not the 280 figure, and I don't believe I have deleted more than about 30 hubs (most of them were actually moved elsewhere not deleted) . Even if I am out and it was say 50 hubs I deleted/removed for example, my averages would still have been higher than 95 cents per hub for large amounts of that time. I should make clear that my average earnings only dropped as low as they are now in very recent months with various Panda changes. In other words it was a gradual process and at times my earnings were still well over what they are now, just less than they were a year and a half (or so) ago. I did most of my Hub deleting within a matter of weeks, which is why I know pretty closely how many I removed. I have only ever removed a handful since.

                  Check Relache's comment and Bendo13's, neither of them were ever in the Apprenticeship Program but they are on the 'Bonus' scheme, so it is not AP participation dependent.

    3. relache profile image87
      relacheposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I am not now nor have ever been an apprentice, yet I have the publishing bonus available.

      1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
        mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks for clarifying this Relache smile

  5. mattforte profile image94
    mattforteposted 4 years ago

    This is intentional. Part of the program is the 4x4 bonus - which forces you to write 4 hubs a month in order to qualify.

    If you were to constantly write new hubs, then delete the underperforming ones - then it would be counterproductive. The idea is to try and encourage quality writing on a regular basis...writing and deleting hubs would be paying you up-front for articles you may not keep, causing HP to slowly go bankrupt.

    And yes, it was originally introduced as part of the Apprenticeship program - I was of the understanding that it'd been released site-wide as well...but if you got rejected, then I can't say. I have it, but I was an apprentice, so I don't really have anything else to go off of.

  6. Mark Ewbie profile image84
    Mark Ewbieposted 4 years ago

    Bonus program???

    Apprentices only????

    This is outrageous!!!

    Not only am I excluded from this money making opportunity but now my face is being quite literally rubbed in the dirt.

    I am not in it.  OK?

    I didn't even know about it.  OK?

    Well no.  It's not OK.  I could be sat on my back or lying on my front - whichever - watching the money pile up and instead I sit here penniless.  No I am not an Apprentice.  No I don't actually write a whole lot of useful stuff.

    But hey.  A bonus.  Man that's worth talking about.

    What I want to see - right here, right now - is a special bonus for those of use who silently, or volubly, toil at the mill of HubPages writing.  Without complaint, I churn out page after page of "bonus worthy" material but not one soul has come along and put a few pence extra in my monthly account.

    I am not going to mention names, but if Simone comes along one more time and says "awesome" I will be tempted to say where's my five cents extra.

    Outraged.

    edit:  I just checked.  Apparently I am in it.  I get a whole three cents every time I mention the word "fart".

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
      Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So, Mark, is fart a profitable bonus worthy word?

      1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
        Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Or is it only profitable for certain hubbers?

        1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
          Mark Ewbieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey, I don't make the rules.  And keep it under your hat.

          1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
            Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Mum's the word Mark. Don't suppose you'd know of any other bonus worthy words for us select few would you? What about gas, wind, flatulence even? Surely they're worth a bob or two?

            1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
              Mark Ewbieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I can't give out advice like that on a public forum Hollie, that's how fortunes are won and lost.

              1. Hollie Thomas profile image61
                Hollie Thomasposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Shucks! Was worth a try though Mark.

  7. LindaSmith1 profile image61
    LindaSmith1posted 4 years ago

    Misty: I have the same as you showing, Balance History

  8. SmartAndFun profile image90
    SmartAndFunposted 4 years ago

    Bonus program???? What bonus program???? I would love the opportunity to get a bonus!

    Where do I sign up?

  9. 2uesday profile image88
    2uesdayposted 4 years ago

    I read this and then thought where had a read about a bonus that was available to apprentices. Just remembered if you click on the apprenticeship tab on your stats. page there is a bit about signing up that has this -
    (Quote.)

    "Whether you're just getting started or a seasoned professional, creating successful online content can be a challenge. The HubPages Apprenticeship Program is a six-month online writing program in which we’ll teach you how to create successful online content, help you develop your online brand and pay you a bonus for each successful Hub you create as part of the program.
    The Apprenticeship Program combines useful lessons with personalized feedback, group support, and rigorous monthly requirements to give you all the tools you need to find success as an online writer. If you’re just starting out and still developing your readership and traffic, the Apprenticeship Program is also a great way to help you reach your $50 minimum monthly payout threshold from HubPages in the months before your Hubs begin to see significant traffic and ad revenue."

    Is that the bonus this post is about? If not is there another? Anyone.

    1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
      mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      No that isn't it. The part I am referring to (as is Bendo13) is where it says:

      "Apprentices are also placed in an elevated tier in the HubPages Bonus Program for the duration of their program participation, "


      The question we want to know is WHAT Hubpages Bonus Program and why are most of us not apparently on any tier, never mind an elevated one if we happen to be in the apprenticeship program?

      The quote comes from the FAQ section and can be found here:

      http://hubpages.com/faq/#apprenticeship

  10. mattforte profile image94
    mattforteposted 4 years ago

    No, that isn't "the" post about it.
    Yes, there was a public announcement about it loooong time ago, don't remember where.

    Mark, you said you don't complain....but complaining about the program is the only reason I recognize your screen name.

    1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
      Mark Ewbieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Matt.  It was the word bonus that drove me into a red rage.  After I came fourth in a hub nugget (sham) it seemed like the final insult.

      If that seems like complaining I can only apologise.  I use these forum posts to attract new followers and supplement my income via affiliate sales.

      1. CMHypno profile image88
        CMHypnoposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Hey Mark complain all you like, its still supposedly a forum where you can say what you really think.

        Don't be bullied by the likes of Mr Forte, there has been too much of that kind of stuff going on around here lately. No point arguing with him, he has a party line to toe.

        That's why its so boring these days.

        1. mattforte profile image94
          mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          CMHypno:
          You apparently haven't been reading. Mark said the words "without complaint" and I was simply pointing out that I see him complain all the time.

          So, thanks for calling me a bully, or saying that I was arguing. I was simply pointing something out. I never said "don't complain" I said "don't say you don't complain when you do"

          He then said "If that seems like complaining I can only apologise.  I use these forum posts to attract new followers and supplement my income via affiliate sales."
          To which I did not argue. He said his purpose, and I can't argue with it - because it is completely valid.

          So...read everything before speaking, otherwise you look a fool and a troll.

          1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
            Mark Ewbieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Not sure how to put this Matt but my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I was posting.  "Supplement my income via affiliate sales"?  From forum posts?

            So I was really just doing a half hearted wind-up because I had nothing else to contribute.  I couldn't give a stuff about a bonus because my real issue is learning to write stuff that is...

            Less up myself
            Worth sharing
            Interesting

            So, er, as far as reading and understanding before posting... I guess we all have a way to go.

            1. mattforte profile image94
              mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Good for you, Mark.

  11. Len Cannon profile image88
    Len Cannonposted 4 years ago

    Informative thread, wow.

    1. SmartAndFun profile image90
      SmartAndFunposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed.

  12. janshares profile image88
    jansharesposted 4 years ago

    2uesday and everyone else, fyi, it's #34 under FAQs. The Hubpages Bonus Program appears to me to be mentioned as part of the Apprentice Program, not something separate. I could not find anything else that indicates otherwise. I think Susan S may be right that there is a glitch with Bendo13's earnings.

    1. mattforte profile image94
      mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It is not a glitch.
      I don't know where the post is, nor do I care to find it - but I specifically remember it going from an "apprentice only" to a "general public" thing.

      1. Bendo13 profile image85
        Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah, I remember it being announced as sitewide as well.  I was never accepted into the program though and I don't write very often on here anymore.  I'm sure if I was accepted into it they would have notified me and gave me tasks to complete. 

        Maybe it was just added to certain profiles that seemed to have a lot of activity at the time as a beta test... but then it was never rolled out sitewide.

        1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
          mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Surely if it ended up being a failed Beta test it would no longer exist though. Usually Beta tests involve being asked to sign some kind of 'digital' confidentiality agreement as I have been approached about these types of tests before. I am interested to hear what the staff come back with on this and sincerely appreciate you bringing this to our attention Bendo13 as otherwise a huge number of people would not have known about this mystery program. Plus, let's not forget that people like yourself ended up in the bonus program in spite of not being in the AP program, so clearly the two are no longer connected, and maybe only ever were as an afterthought, (perhaps the bonus scheme was Beta, and just kept 'under wraps' until they added it to the Ap program). Lots of unanswered questions right now.

          1. mattforte profile image94
            mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yes, there was an NDA during the beta test. The beta test lasted a month, then was announced to the public.

            1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
              mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              In which case I wonder why there is no longer any evidence on the site of how we get involved in it, what the conditions are etc, especially as it can't have been axed because people are clearly still on it (even non-apprentices).

              1. mattforte profile image94
                mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Did you check through the HubPages blog? It seems to me that the announcement was made there.
                Best I can say is - increase your visitors. Your math puts you close to the threshold - only thing I can imagine is that your numbers are off just enough to put you under.
                Maybe email support and ask them what your stats are. Who knows, maybe they'll give you an answer and this will be solved.

                1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
                  mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  In the last year I would definitely have been over the threshold you mentioned for differing periods of time, even allowing for deleted hubs etc. This is why I am asking about the duration this average would need to be maintained for in order to qualify. To answer an earlier point you made I never even got close to publishing 400 hubs, ever, and I think I have already adequately explained the amount of hubs I am likely to have moved, deleted etc. Right now I get a good amount of visitors and although it isn't what it has been in the past, whose is? At this point in time I might be 'close to the threshold', but in the not too distant past I wasn't, and I was over by 20 -30 cents by my reckoning, even allowing for extra deleted hubs I might have 'forgotten' about. As I have said before, I have already emailed the team and asked for clarification here and/or by email to me directly. Even if this program was mentioned in an HP Blog it would be pretty amateurish not to add the details to the FAQ section so that they could easily be found.

                2. Bendo13 profile image85
                  Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  I just did a search there and it's not mentioned in the blog.  It only talks about the $6 per hub they get for the apprentice program.  I remember when I was told about it thinking that everyone was going to love the bonus program and people would really start writing some quality stuff, and more often.  And when I was told about the bonus program I don't remember them having a NDA because I was told everyone was going to be a part of it... so who would I be keeping the secret from?

                  1. mattforte profile image94
                    mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    You don't remember the NDA because the only people that had to sign it were the very first apprentices.

    2. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
      mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It is mentioned there, but only in as much as it is referred to with the inference that being in the Apprentice Program can be a benefit as they will put you on a higher earning tier within the bonus scheme during your participation in the program. Relache and Bendo13 are not, nor have ever been in the AP program so there are no glitches.

      I have now checked through the FAQ's and the TOS, and there is no other reference to the bonus scheme, and certainly no reference to it now being open to anyone who qualifies.

  13. janshares profile image88
    jansharesposted 4 years ago

    So as far as you can recall, it IS available to all? Thanks for the info, Matt.

    1. mattforte profile image94
      mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Correct. As far as I can recall - everybody *should* be able to get it, however - earning a dollar per hub per month including all past deleted hubs is not an easy task, and I would guess that 95% of hubbers don't reach that threshold.

  14. SmartAndFun profile image90
    SmartAndFunposted 4 years ago

    So it sounds like the bonus program is an incentive for hubbers to write great money-earning hubs and then keep them here at HP instead of deleting them or moving them. It's also incentive not to publish quick, junky hubs on a whim. I wonder why so few of us have ever heard of this? Even if a hubber doesn't have enough hubs or isn't making enough money per hub to qualify now, the bonus program would be great incentive and something to work toward. Probably many people, including me, have inadvertently taken themselves out of the running to qualify simply because they don't know the program exists or how it works.

    1. mattforte profile image94
      mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That's exactly what the program is.
      But, you have to realize if HP started dishing out money for everybody as an incentive to write better...they would go bankrupt. The reason for the rigorous standards is to give you something to reach for, and to encourage those who *do* bring in money to *continue* bringing in money.

      1. SmartAndFun profile image90
        SmartAndFunposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        It's too late for me, though. Since I knew nothing about this program until today, although I've been here more than 2 years, I put all kinds of hubs up that I knew wouldn't earn many views. If I had known that I might some day qualify for this bonus program, I would have approached my account entirely differently.

        1. mattforte profile image94
          mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It is not against HubPages policy to have multiple accounts.

          Just sayin.

          1. SmartAndFun profile image90
            SmartAndFunposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I guess it's time to start over after more than two years! Ugh. Still, though, at this point I don't know exactly what I'm aiming for. The bonus program is sooper seekrit, apparently.

            1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
              mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              lol, exactly, it seems that we may or may not be eligible for a program we know nothing about and that is not even included in the FAQ section of the site where it refers to how we can make money on Hubpages. Certainly we have not been told about how such a scheme works or how we qualify, i.e. how long do you have to maintain a certain average of income across your hubs (published, deleted, moved or whatever) before you are included in the program? I have now emailed the HP staff about this and asked them either to respond to me or to post here with some kind of information. I know that for periods of time I have definitely earned over 95 cents as an average (per hub) of all my hubs ever (inc deleted/moved etc), so right now I am still mystified as to the actual facts of this matter.

  15. paradigmsearch profile image87
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    I read the op, but nothing else. Got a problem with that, then let us play. I am in that kind of mood.

    Is anyone here stating that there is other regular compensation other that the 60:40 split?

    1. Bendo13 profile image85
      Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If your average hub is earning well overall then it looks like you'd get a monthly bonus through this program, based on the number of hubs you posted in the past month.  But that's only up to 15 per month and if you want to earn even 50 cents extra per hub, then all your hubs have to be earning at least 95 cents per month.

      So yeah, I guess it would be regular compensation but the most you can earn per hub is $8.01... and that's only if you have 50 hubs published and all of those hubs earn on average $4.51, AND if you've posted 4 hubs per month for the past 4 months.  So, it's not easy to earn that amount and you'd have to be pulling in $225.50 a month, just through the HP Ad program, from your 50 hubs to get that bonus... on your NEW hubs that you post.  So, it's a per hub, one-time bonus.

      1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
        mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I think you mean an 'average' of 95 cents a month, as opposed to each hub having to earn 95 cents or more from what I am hearing here.

        1. mattforte profile image94
          mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Correct.

        2. Bendo13 profile image85
          Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Yes, I mean an average... but you wouldn't want too many hubs earning under 95 cents a month or you'd never hit that average mark.  You could have a couple big earners but if you have too many that don't earn anything then it wouldn't average out as well.

          1. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
            mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Agreed, but by the sound of things it is 'too little too late' as even if you deleted those under performing hubs they would still affect your average earnings per hub (which I think is a really poor and unfair decision by HP in general, even disregarding the fact this program has been kept very quiet to the degree barely anyone seems to know about it).

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              From Bard's description, if HP didn't count all the hubs ever published the obvious game would be to publish 15 crappy little hubs.  Delete them the next month and publish 15 more, earning $8 each, or $120.  The next month, repeat.

              That doesn't seem in HP's best interest, somehow, while paying for quality hubs that will actually produce income might.

              1. Len Cannon profile image88
                Len Cannonposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yeah, of course, but there are plenty of ways to code around that. (You lose credit for deleted articles gradually, etc.)

                But the point is that it WAS in HubPages best interest for awhile and we were told to really pound them out, that it was fine to have them all on one account, but it was wrong! And it's locked us out of some earning potential. Just frustrating. I love that HP is trying out new types of revenue opportunities for writers, the specifics of this are just disappointing for a few reasons.

                The fact that a lot of us are learning about this through what is tantamount to someone slipping up and letting it out is going to account for a lot of negative reactions, too. I think I might get serious about trying to worm my way in with a new account in February, though. Seems interesting.

              2. SimeyC profile image90
                SimeyCposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I agree - however as I just said-  we should be allowed to trim the 'crap' first - otherwise there's no point in me keeping this account - it will never gain a bonus - I'm better off moving all my successful hubs to another username and that is time consuming and also stops me from writing other hubs.

            2. Bendo13 profile image85
              Bendo13posted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah, I think what this program encourages you to do is not delete your hubs, but to keep improving them to bring your average up.  So, you find the crappy ones and edit them to bring the average up.  Which isn't a bad thing to encourage, but some people might not realize it until it's too late... and they have deleted a bunch of hubs.

              And that's on top of the fact that many people on here, including HP staff, have encouraged people that sometimes it's better to give up on a hub... especially when Panda and Penguin came into play, or when a new HP rule comes into play.

              I would have never deleted a hub on here if they hadn't started talking about not having too many different topics (making sure all your hubs focus on one niche), or how product review hubs don't do as well, or how certain affiliate links weren't allowed anymore.

              But soon I'll be deleting 365 hubs on here, at a gradual pace, because the HP staff saw almost all of my holiday hubs as worthless, and wouldn't even respond when I asked them to take a look at them.  Funny thing is my holiday hubs have been bringing in some big numbers lately, and some of those hubs aren't even "featured" so they're not in search engines. 

              But I'll happily move all that traffic to my site, where I will feature them all freely, because they are worth something more than a simple HP equation can figure out.

    2. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
      mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      lol, in a word 'Yes', but not going to explain it all again, prefer to wait for staff to explain this as right now there seems to be a tonne of confusion and also a mixture of information on this topic.

    3. relache profile image87
      relacheposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      There is not.

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Doesn't this thread establish that for some people there is? At least apprentices and possibly beta bonus hubbers?

        1. SimeyC profile image90
          SimeyCposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It establishes that it was an experiment of a bonus system that will not be implemented. The apprentice program uses it as a mechanism to pay the per-hub bonus. Not sure why other non APers are grandfathered in to an experiment that is now defunct though?

        2. relache profile image87
          relacheposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Not that I call "regular" there isn't.  Sporadic, potentially.  In fact, for the majority of people on this site, there are most often no regular earnings, only sporadic options.

      2. PegCole17 profile image90
        PegCole17posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Really? I finally found out how to track the earnings from people who have signed up under my referral trackers. Wow! 8 cents this month from one of them. Whoo hoo. I'm off to spend my earnings.

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          How do you do that?  HPads or adsense?  I could track the adsense, but have no idea how to track HPads earnings.

          I've got over 1000 views to sign-ups hubs - maybe I'm rich!!?? roll

          1. PegCole17 profile image90
            PegCole17posted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Hello Wilderness,
            You said you have over 1,000 views to your sign up hubs. Wow. Not sure if that is the same thing as what I meant. Long ago I asked the question "How do you track earnings from people who sign up under one of your referral trackers" and no one could tell me. (I wrote a hub on "Creating Sign Up Links within your hubs AKA Creating A Referral Link for HubPages articles" way back when.)

            This is where I send out a link to one of my hubs (via email, facebook, twitter or place a link within one of my hubs) and someone clicks on it AND decides to join HubPages AND starts to write hubs of their own. That is where the money is earned.

            To find out who has signed up: Go to MyAccount>Earnings>ReferralTrackers to see who has signed up and it will show those who have written hubs under the "Hubs" column.

            To find out the earnings: Go to MyAccount>Earnings>GoogleAdSenseReports>Site and scroll to the bottom where you will see the hubber's names who have signed up AND have written hubs along with your earnings from them.

            Hope this helps. I just found this!
            Peg

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              OK, that's what I do anyway, up until the "site".  I don't see a "site" button. 

              I do have channels for HP and a couple of other sites, but nothing that separates HP views into subdomains.

              It won't matter anyway - those 1000 views were total for nearly 2 years from 3 hubs.  My sign-ups aren't exactly prolific! smile  In addition, I use HPads, and hardly get any adsense clicks as a result.  I highly doubt that even 1000 views produced more than maybe one click.

              Thanks, Peg.

              1. PegCole17 profile image90
                PegCole17posted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Hi Wilderness
                It isn't about clicks. It is about Their views on their hubs.

                I went straight to GoogleAdsenseReports from my earnings page. Then I scrolled down on Common Reports and found "Sites". That takes you to a list of names of your own and other sites including your sign-ups.
                smile

                Not much in earnings yet, but who knows? Maybe one of them will write a zillion hubs. LOL

  16. paradigmsearch profile image87
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    @HP Get me in the bonus program now! Serious! I need all the help I can get.

  17. A Driveby Quipper profile image60
    A Driveby Quipperposted 4 years ago

    Glitch, incompetence, fraud?

  18. paradigmsearch profile image87
    paradigmsearchposted 4 years ago

    @HP Is this thread for real? Talk to me.

  19. mattforte profile image94
    mattforteposted 4 years ago

    Publishing lots of hubs in a small amount of time has never been in anybody's best interest. That was just a way to get people excited - and I've always been vocal about how I thought the 30-30 idea was a garbage idea. Very glad I never partook. Yeah, it sucks if that does in fact get people disqualified as I've surmised...but when the game changes, the game changes.
    Quite frankly, if anybody ever took part in that, then they really didn't know enough about how to bring in money anyway - and they aren't really "missing out" on anything. (Exceptions will exist, of course)

    And..as I've already said...anybody can make a new account. It really isn't that bad - you can link things together, you can get paid on the same Paypal account...so what if it isn't your original account. If you have 500 garbage hubs that bring in ten cents a day, why would you even want all of that bringing down your overall ranking in Google's eyes, when trying to reach the threshold? If you can make a new account, make ten hubs that make a buck each - that's a golden account in my opinion. Many people already have multiple accounts *without* needing this as motivation.

  20. Winterfate profile image97
    Winterfateposted 4 years ago

    Oh wow, now I'm irate. After all of that effort deleting and making better quality hubs (which benefits Hubpages; 60:40 after all), now I hear that I may have locked myself out of a Bonus Program without even knowing it existed....

    Charming. To be honest, not even sure WHAT to think at this moment.

  21. 2uesday profile image88
    2uesdayposted 4 years ago

    I have given up being amazed or surprised by things and cannot find one word to sum it up. By comparison, if there is a secret bonus scheme here it makes the word elite on a profile look like almost a good idea.

    What I find puzzling is the way it seems to work, yet so many things here that have made people decide to delete hubs. There by, they have disqualified themselves from something they never knew existed. If the OP had not innocently queried his stats. for this many of us would have continued to be none the wiser.

    I think that I removed almost 100 hubs after the Google changes and thought from what I read at the time that it was the right thing to do.  I suppose that means I have a 'snowballs chance in whatever' of ever being made officially aware of the program.  Then thinking about the other factors mentioned, I know from reading the forums that there are many hubbers who have a small proportion of their hubs bringing in the majority of their traffic. It sounds to me  like you need steady traffic flow to all your hubs and to not delete the less successful ones but to bring them in line with the better performers and yet maybe you still do not get invited. This means that the little H 's on the stats. may be even more important than we thought.

  22. SmartAndFun profile image90
    SmartAndFunposted 4 years ago

    Seems like at this point they would just scrap the program rather than deal with the headaches it is causing, especially if they are forced to open it up to everyone.

  23. Simone Smith profile image91
    Simone Smithposted 4 years ago

    Hey everyone!

    Allow me to present some background. smile

    When we first launched the Apprenticeship Program, we were also experimenting with the Bonus Program: a feature that would provide extra motivation to people who write successful Hubs.

    We ran tests of both programs, but the Bonus Program did not end up rolling out (though the beta testers are still in the program). Simply put, we did not find compelling evidence indicating that the Bonus Program really did all that much for folks.

    That said, the way we organize payments through the Apprenticeship Program is through the Bonus Program, so as it exists now, it is really just the AP's payment tool, plus an experimental project that a small handful of Hubbers have on their accounts (again, left over from that testing period).

    So the Bonus Program still exists:
    1. Because we're using it to pay Apprentices
    2. Because we're still not entirely sure it might not someday be a great feature we can roll out to all Hubbers

    Because the Bonus Program a very rudimentary test, we just haven't spoken about it.

    Hope that clears things up!

    1. mattforte profile image94
      mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Simone - if this is the case....then why are there some people in the program that've never been apprentices?

      1. SimeyC profile image90
        SimeyCposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        She says "plus an experimental project that a small handful of Hubbers have on their accounts " - I assume these are the non AP-ers

        1. mattforte profile image94
          mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh. I somehow skipped over that part. Whoops!

        2. 0
          Miriam Weissmannposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          +1

  24. 2uesday profile image88
    2uesdayposted 4 years ago

    Thank you Simone for giving us the facts on this.

    1. Simone Smith profile image91
      Simone Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry for not spotting this sooner! I apologize for all the confusion. @_@

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
        Mark Ewbieposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well, I have just deleted my Hub on Why HP Staff Never Respond and now have to write a new one.

        Thx Simone.

        1. Simone Smith profile image91
          Simone Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Oh drat! See what a hassle I've caused??? Worst. Monday. Evar.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Naw.  Mark's hub would never have been featured, anyway. 

            " 'Cause nobody's home on weekends"  followed by a comments capsule needs to have at least twice that many words to be considered a good hub.  You probably did him a favor, so be happy! big_smile

  25. melbel profile image92
    melbelposted 4 years ago

    I personally didn't find the bonus program motivating for the following reason:

    While I understand that it adds up all the hubs I've ever written in order to prevent a certain level of fraud (people unpublishing hubs in order to raise the payout), I found it demotivating that the number of hubs it counted against was so high. I felt that given the fact that I had no idea HubPages was going to roll something like this out, it should have started the counter at the number of hubs I had on the date this addition was announced to me.

    I feel this way because there's such a disparity between the amount of hubs I currently have and the amount of hubs I've ever had total that it would take a considerable amount of work in order to ever raise myself up to another tier. Since I had no foreknowledge of this change to the site, I couldn't involve myself in hubcount fraud before the fact.

    I TOTALLY understand why you guys have the hubcount start the way it does, but I implore that you do another test where the count starts on the date the hubber is/was notified of the feature or the day it's implemented on the user's account.

    I know that I would have taken advantage of the bonus program and majorly spruced up hubs if I didn't feel like I had the dead weight of hubs deleted years past holding me back.

    Honestly, I really think I would've liked to compete against myself to see how high I could get my earnings per hub.

    1. Simone Smith profile image91
      Simone Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Really good points, melbel!

      We hadn't really worked on re-setting start points for folks because we just wanted to run a basic, preliminary test. Should we run another test, we'll definitely consider starting the count on the date on which the Bonus Program would be activated- but we're not likely to re-test the program anytime soon. For several reasons, we didn't see much justification in putting more time into it, and feel that our resources would best be directed to other things.

      I appreciate your sharing your thoughts on that front though- I'm filing them away should this project come up again. big_smile

      1. mattforte profile image94
        mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I find the bonus program to be an awesome feature that has completely changed the way I look at my hubs.
        I now work on ranking them individually. I have a file where I check and track the rankings manually and log what changes I've made. This has led to a marked increase in the performance of the hubs I've worked with thus far. I did this so I could start writing to achieve the 4x4 bonus without having those extra hubs potentially pull my tier down.
        In doing this, I've also learned several valuable tools for ranking that I wouldn't have otherwise known.


        I think there is a pretty simple workaround to the deleted hubs problem:
        Don't automagically put people into the bonus program. Offer a form or button that allows them to apply. Before applying, advise them of the nature of the program so that they can go back and either update or delete poor performing hubs. Once this is done, only count the number of hubs they currently have (Including hubs that have been unpublished but not deleted, to prevent abuse). Bam - problem solved.

        1. Simone Smith profile image91
          Simone Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That's a great suggestion, mattforte!

          And thanks for sharing more on how the Bonus Program test has changed your approach to Hubbing.

          That said, we have no plans to do further experimentation with the program at this time.  This is definitely something we'll consider should we pick it up again, though!

          1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
            Marcy Goodfleischposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Related to this - since the Apprentice Program was/is by nature a learning experience, it seems awkward to penalize writers who honestly did not understand SEO, etc. before they wrote a bunch of hubs that have the wrong titles, aren't ever going to be traffic draws, etc. This same issue holds for writers who have been on the site for years, and learned through the great tutoring of fellow Hubbers, and through trial and error, to get rid of the junk in their inventories.

            I just unpublished and deleted quite a few hubs that get no traffic (or very little) and I am continuing to delete the non-performers.  Will  I ever again publish a bad hub? I hope not, but I'd like the ability to unpublish it and not be penalized for once having it in my inventory. It seems that would be consistent with HP's goal of only having very high-quality hubs on the site?

            Also - several of the Exclusives titles I have written, and even some of the assigned titles I was given during my first month in AP are just plain not performing.  Are we allowed to delete those?  I need to delete things so that my entire subdomain increases its stock with Google - are we stuck with those hubs (Exclusives, or assigned titles from AP) that just aren't working?  Even after we have edited, tweaked, etc.  I know they're good hubs, as far as well-written and full of the right things, but maybe they're dragging down my entire subdomain, and therefore, chipping away at the entire site in some small way?

            If the math is based on all the hubs we ever wrote, even after only being here (not quite) a year, it will be hard for me to make the bonus ranks without being able to get rid of the mistakes or the bad performers.

            On the other hand, I don't think someone should get the bonus $$ for every single new hub (up to 15, as it currently stands), regardless of the quality of the topic or photos, etc. It should not be a program where writers churn out poor-quality hubs just to get those few dollars. Topics should be thoroughly written and informative. Original photos are great, but not if they're low-light, boring, hard to tell what the subject is, or not very related to the content of the hub and used as filler. Original videos are great, as long as they are reasonably well-executed and interesting.  Maybe decreasing the number for which you can get a bonus (again) would better discourage that potential abuse? Even 15 hubs is a lot to write at times.  But, I also realize it would be difficult to screen all hubs for some level of quality in order to do the bonus payments.

            Meanwhile, because of the things I learned and am still learning, I have cleaned house with my hubs, and I did see a traffic increase afterward!  I don't know that I would qualify for the bonus payment with all the titles I ever produced hanging over my head, but I am thankful for what I have learned so far, and for the improvements I've been led to make!

            1. Simone Smith profile image91
              Simone Smithposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Great points- all the more reason why we decided not to go forward with the program.

            2. mattforte profile image94
              mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Here's the thing - even if writers did churn out 15 low quality hubs...they would see their earnings per hub go down (Which is the purpose of making sure you write at least 4 every month to qualify for the 4x4) and eventually fall out of the bonus program completely until they can learn to consistently write profitable hubs.
              Those that are able to write hubs that will always perform, well..they'll always be able to earn through the bonus program (Which pays for itself in the long run, as far as HP is concerned)

              1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image93
                Marcy Goodfleischposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That may be - I think there might be a 'sweet spot' for the level at which you are getting enough revenue to be in the program but you're not so overloaded that the number of hubs works against you.  It would be very difficult to consistently have 1,000 hubs that ALL performed well enough (or had enough super-high performers to offset the bad ones) for you to be at the bonus level.

                1. 2uesday profile image88
                  2uesdayposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  And a 1,000 hubs would be a nightmare to edit and re-work if changes were asked for that had to be put into place by a certain date. That is something that can cause people to delete (or unpublish) in haste due to pressure of time and volume of work needed..

                  1. mattforte profile image94
                    mattforteposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    This is precisely why I focus more on quality over quantity. If I get to the point where I've written 1,000 hubs - I'd better not need a full time job anymore.
                    Bonus program aside - with that many articles, you're sitting on a goldmine. SEO the crap out of those and even at an small average of 10 views a day per article, that'd be between 500-1000 a month.

  26. 0
    Miriam Weissmannposted 4 years ago

    Why has the title of this thread changed? Did HubPages take out "bonus"? This place gets stranger by the day if you ask me.

    1. A Driveby Quipper profile image60
      A Driveby Quipperposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Tell me about it.

  27. 0
    Miriam Weissmannposted 4 years ago

    The word "bonus" is now back in. I can't help but wonder.

  28. mistyhorizon2003 profile image90
    mistyhorizon2003posted 4 years ago

    Thanks to Simone for clarifying the situation (glad I was not going mad wondering why I wasn't in it when my previous average earnings per hub including deleted ones etc would have qualified me on many occasions). Still wondering why if the program was axed before going site-wide, the beta testers who were never on the apprenticeship program are still getting this bonus though. Surely if the testing proved unsuccessful it should have been withdrawn completely, as right now that still means some non-AP hubbers are on a better deal than the rest of us!

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