I am venturing out into the forums on a rare occasion to personally ask a question I haven't seen anyone from HP answer to anyone's satisfaction to this point. I've just noticed a hubber which only joined around 14 hours ago who had a hub published only 30 minutes or so ago. See it for yourself on the "latest hubs. How is this not an insult to myself and many other Hubbers who have never had any problem getting published but have to wait up to 24 hours or more now.
I'd like a concise answer and if you don't know, then find the heck out. Ask Paul E. if you don't know This is an outrage for me to have to wait so long when a newbie gets almost instantly published. This is an insult and very disrespectful to many veterans of this site and we deserve better from you guys. No spin please!
Throughout the ages, there has been a common flaw in human character.
It is this.
Follow the person who is most likely to feed one's stomach, ego, or status. In this case, it is the owners of HP, the management of HP, and the people who follow the leader for what they can get out of the leader.
When the leader and management errs, those who have integrity will point this out. Those who simply want to ensure that leadership keeps feeding their stomachs and their egos, will protect and defend that leadership at any cost.
Why? Because if they don't, they don't have the skils and brains to do it on their own. So they are depending on being in the good books of leadership.
Ergo, if you've worked your butt off at Hubpages and produced good work, you probably are a hard worker and you probably have brains and skills. However, if leadership and/or management let you down, they are not going to want this known. So they are going to protect themselves by making you and your work invisible.
And all those little people? Well, they're going to be defending the owners and the management. That's where their bread is buttered.
Anyway, Randy, that's my take on it.
As for the rest of you, as you all know by now, I have removed all my hubs and am just waiting for final payment at the end of Febrruary, and then I'm out of here...
Let me clarify some points.
It takes from 12 to 24 hours to be featured or longer if edited during that time.
What is shown on the latest Hubs page is when the Hub was published, not when it was featured (the text indicates "published X hours ago"). However, only featured Hubs will appear on that page.
Matthew I think the main bone of contention wasn't the fact that it was featured, it's more of the fact that many of us experience long delays in being featured while it is perceived that some new members get featured very quickly.
Do you understand Matthew's post, Simey?
I think so!
It will take between 12 to 24 hours to get featured (assuming you don't edit the hub in between) - when it is featured it appears on the 'latest hub page' with a message saying it was 'publsihed X hours ago'.
So if it took your hub 24 hours to get featured it would say 'published 24 hours ago' when it first appears on the 'list' rather than 'featured 2 minutes ago'.
So what I take away from this is that if the list showed your hub as being published 24 hours ago it doesn't necessarily mean it took 24 hours to be featured - however, I suspect that you based your 24 hours on the time the hub was not featured....
To clarify... Are we talking the feed, the personal latest hub page, or the obscure latest hub page that no one ever visits?
It's the main site feed (and not some obscure feed), and easy to find. Just remember to put hubs/latest after the site url.
And loads of people visit it
Sorry Izzy, I didn't see this until after I posted mine.
I used to go to it when it was more predominately featured. I don't anymore. Not saying it has no value just saying it is pretty difficult to find so I doubted many people outside the site use it.
As I understand it, we are talking about http://hubpages.com/hubs/latest/
Ah... That would be the one that -I feel- is obscure. Does anybody outside of the hp writers actually go there?
I don't think appearing on that page, whether it is obscure or not, is the main issue, appearing on that page is a sign that your hub is featured. Obviously if your hub is featured 30 minutes after you've published it, it is better than if it is featured 24 hours after you've published it.
Although tbh the "pending" period was really annoying to me when it interfered with Google indexing. Sometimes a hub would not be indexed for weeks after getting published which was a major pain. HP do seem to have sorted that out (at least for me) so I don't have major issues with waiting 24hours to be featured.
When my hub appears on the "latest hubs" it may be many pages back into the listed hubs with the time published as 22 hours ago. When the newbie's appeared it was on the first page near the top and said "published 31 minutes ago. This was right beneath several hubbers who get instantly featured often. So I assumed it was instantly featured as well. Try publishing a hub and check out when it appears on the latest hub page and how far back it appears once featured.
Ooh. I feel slightly proud that my initial post was correct.
So according to Randy's post, this new hubber's hub was seen on the latest hubs page (therefore featured) only 30 minutes after it was published.
So how does that fit in with the 12-24 hours needed to be featured?
So why was this one listed as published 31 minutes ago on the first page when mine didn't appear until after 22 hours later? So are those which state they were published 10 minutes ago by those we know get instant featuring not featured either? I do know the one published by the newbie did not have the "no index" tag on it.
And why pray tell was copied hub allowed in the first place?
+1 on Say what? Are we hearing that everything on the Latest Hubs feed is featured before appearing there? If so - Randy's OP raises very good issues. Can you clarify?
A very confusing post by Matthew in my opinion. He seems to contradict himself in this post, or is it just me?
No, I understand it to mean that if you see a hub on the "latest" page that says it's been published 30 minutes ago, it means it took less than 30 minutes to get featured (or bypassed the QAP altogether).
He definitely says that hubs on that page are featured. Presumably you need to hit the "publish" button for your hub to enter the QAP.
It's confusing to me, too - apparently, Simey interprets it as written (a hub listed in Latest is featured). Which means your original question was on-target. I think.
While I'm at it, I'm sorely offended (crushed, even) to be lumped in the group you say you don't care about. Brokenhearted here.
I am indeed sorry you felt you needed such coaching, Marcy, but that isn't the point. Any sort of title on a content farm always causes trouble. So has the extra mentoring really increased your traffic that much, or can you tell thus far?
Perhaps you need to read the "Elite" thread where all of the then designated ones jumped all over me and I was given an "accidental" ban because of it. Most of them claimed the name wasn't important at the time, but when they changed the name to "greeters" most dropped out. Duh! Some of the worst writers on here were called "elite." Another word which seems to have different meaning here.
No, I don't dislike the people in the AP, merely the real reason for the program.
Who are you clarifying those points to?
We know this feed only carries featured hubs. It also shows their approximate time of publication.
So if a hub appears on that feed saying 7 minutes ago, then it was published 7 minutes ago and is already featured.
So, it takes some hubs 12 to 24 hours to become featured. They are shown by having a publication time 12 hours or longer ago.
The point is, why are long established hubbers who do not write substandard work being made to wait 12 - 24 hours, while some newbie in off the street gets instant featuring immediately, regardless of quality?
I'm confused...I thought that Hubs could be "published" instantly, but had to wait to be "featured" for 24 hours.
Is the fact that it's showing up in Randy's feed mean it's featured on the site? Or is there some algorithm putting it on Randy's feed, based on factors such as Randy's interests, what he has read in the past, etc...
I, too, am curious for an answer.
Search on the site for "latest hubs," Kathleen. The time a hub becomes featured is listed. A newbie of less than a day with--with copied content no less--was instantly featured while my latest hub took 24 hours. there is no excuse for this and shows how terrible the new program really is. It's a joke and should not be taken seriously. It's useless as an indicator of quality and anyone with a lick of sense can see this. What a frickin' mess! Where's a staffer?
If I'm doing it right (a big IF) that hub carries a "nofollow" tag (rel="nofollow" - it is not featured.
Do you know how to check for that?
The only nofollow on the hub in question is on the link the hub provides to the site it intends to promote, but that is because of the low authorscore.
search for "noindex" in the source - Idled hub have this tag.
There are a group of HP 'pets' who bypass pending. There is an old thread about it that I will try to track down. Presumably they get a QAP of 9-9-9.
There is a whole stack of them !!!!!!
But one who has only joined 14 hours ago and has a copied hub instantly featured is simply disgusting to me and an insult to all of us. I think an apology is definitely called for in this case. Hell will freeze over when that happens, of course.
Simply disgusting is four month old milk left out on your counter or a nest of cockroaches inside of your pillow.
I support voicing complaints, but doing so without overreacting or exaggeration. I would imagine you'd be more likely to get an answer that way.
Please list my exaggerations then Missy. I'll be glad to wait.
"Simply Disgusting" would be the first. Out of all the truly disgusting things in life.... I just feel it's an over exaggeration born out of anger in the heat of the moment.
"Insult to all of us"-- I'm not insulted personally. I hardly care. I have other more important things to worry about. I believe you can only be offended if you choose to be offended. Please don't speak for me and others with such blanket statements.
You can freely offer your opinion as I do mine. You are one of many who have not been here very long and choose to cheer lead for the site. I've always taken this into consideration when I read such opinions by those who haven't seen as much as other of us veterans here. It does make a difference when one has dealt with the minions before, believe it or not. I'll give your opinion the respect it deserves by the experience you have here. I only ask for the same.
Fair enough. Although I really don't do that much cheerleading. I just see HP as a business, run by humans with feelings that aren't going to be prone to work with you and discuss issues with you when you're overly aggressive.
HP has never worked with me to answer my queries before, Shanna. Believe me I have emailed them personally about problems here. They are too frightened to even use their real names in our conversations and have always failed to answer my queries.
Maybe that's a hint that you should change your approach? I dunno, I'd be a little nervous to interact with you if your anger was directed directly at me. Put yourself in their shoes.
Randy - when it comes down to it, we are all on the same side. I have been here as long as you - and I've seen the ups and downs. I haven't experienced as huge a loss as you have but I have seen a fair amount of revenue slip away as well as periods where traffic disappeared.
Do I blame HP? No - do I blame Google? No - I understand that the internet is not a stable place and I've always understood that writing (in any format) is always going to be subject to whims and changes.
Do I believe HP always does the right thing? - no - I've seen many mistakes, as you have. I do however believe they are trying to rectify things and I do see some improvements. Maybe not as quickly as I'd like...but there are some good signs.
Is the QAP a good thing? - I do not know - it's really not been around long enough for the true impact to be seen - you may be totally right and it should be discarded - but I feel it should at least run six months to a year before an objective decision can be made.
In any discussion there are always going to be disagreements - and that is actually healthy.
So what am I saying - your question was a valid one - and I think if it had simply been asked in a different way then most people would be on board with you....and with that I have to go to be - got to go to my real job in a few hours!
I can see the plumbing hub in question, and yes it is copied content. Well done, HP, you know how to spot 'quality'.
Sure is, and each copy carries the same link to rotorooter, disguised as a textual link for information.
Wonder if the QAP will catch it?
It's Sunday night - so maybe the staff who would handle that sort of question are not here.
Randy - do you think there could be a different 'featuring' mechanism for internal views on the stream of latest hubs compared to being visible to Google, or featured in the list of topics on this site?
Hubs don't appear on the "latest hubs" until featured, Marcy. I know this because when mine do finally appear--around 20 or so hours after being published for my amateur ass--they suddenly show up many pages into the listing. Try it yourself if you don't believe me. Notice some favored Hubbers show up instantly while others are delayed for hours.
This prevents those delayed from ever being seen by those who may share or link to them and thus help gain backlinks and readers. I will certainly wait on someone with the answers till tomorrow and can't wait for the usual spin.
Interesting. There is another one by householdbudget - the account is 15 hours old and the hub is 14 hours old. I wonder if there is a change in the review process?
The example I used was by a member only 14 hours old and was featured only 30 minutes or so after being published. And copied at that. If this doesn't show how terribly designed the program we depend on is then I don't know what will. They should junk the entire program as it is no doubt a failure as this example shows.
And by the way, this happens on a daily basis but I've finally gotten fed up with the ludicrous excuses given by staff. It is to everyone's benefit to protest this stupid program now and not wait for it to go on any longer. Enough damage has been done already.
Does this place not use copyscape or something like it to check for copied material? There is so much reliance on human raters, but many of the most offensive problems could be eliminated with some simple software and algorithms.
It would seem that yes they do, but they only apply it to some hubbers, some of the time.
There is another new hubber who has made the mistake of posting on the forums several times recently in extremely broken English, prompting me to go look at his/her hubs.
All of them are copied content, and I have reported this to HP through the proper channels, including links to the originals.
This hubber is still here with same hubs intact.
How much more of this can we stand? The site is full of junk and this is simply an example of the mismanagement which has almost destroyed the site. I wish the stockholders could see the way this place is being run into the ground.
If it's the Hubber I'm thinking of, I reported their hubs, too. And the tip-off was the broken English in the forum posts - as you said. I haven't checked today, but the other times I checked, they were still there.
You would think they'd have thought of this, wouldn't you? But apparently not.
Is it possible that these are hubs created by staff to test to see if MTURK workers are doing there job correctly? I know they had other 'poor quality' hubs deliberately created....
It won't be the account Randy mentioned, because that one by-passed the Mturk squad, but I don't know about the one I mentioned, as he was here about 30 hours when I noticed him (or her).
How do you know they had poor hubs deliberately created? (though I'm not surprised).
Because when a poor hub was found a few weeks (months?) ago, someone made a forum notice about it and a staff member noted that sometimes HP lets poor quality hubs through to check to see if they get picked up in the MTURK process - perhaps a proportion of new hubbers are let through for testing purposes...
....it may not be the case, but that's the only reason I can see something like this happening unless there is a serious bug in the code!
And you believed them? lol! No wonder they get away with so much BS if people are so gullible as to think this. This system sucks and no use making excuses for it. this happens all of the time and I've been watching it for quite a while. So how does a 14 hour rookie get published instantly, Simey? And why do you suppose HP has made the "latest hubs" so hard for the newbies to find. DUH! lol!
Randy - not sure why you would insult me for no reason. I was pointing out a plausible possibility - I didn't give an opinion whether I believed them or not. Simply insulting someone because they don't jump on your band-wagon is inane.
Is there a problem with the system - yes - is it malicious, I have no idea - nor do you. If you want a proper discussion try and discuss objectively without insulting others....
I don't think I'm giving away any trade secrets either. Knowing they are there doesn't really enable anyone to game the system either because they are poorly created at different levels of poor creation so we have to rate them carefully anyway.
Plus the fact that we know they are there makes it so we really can't just scan hubs, we have to read them.
I had to comment on this one......To allow poor published articles on a site that is deemed to only have the best writers is a really bad idea. Doesn't that kind of thing bring down the the site as a whole. This site and its creators and employees (I would hope) are more intelligent than that to find a way to grade hubs.
Thanks for your interest, jenubouka. And for not killing the messenger as others seem to want to do. We should all be very concerned when copied content is immediately featured by this flawed system. But apparently some are not very concerned with anything but their own little tags.
I commend you Randy for taking a stand, and calling it out. I think for those who have put a lot of time and effort, rolled with the punches of random and beta changes have a right to get a straight answer. Not a cheeky "doing everything we can, still working out the bugs, thanks for your patience" answer. Like many writers who ventured here for a "writing site" to publish their hard and researched work, just to see the site make rash changes without the concern of those who really put forth the effort so required......I have stood by my word and moved elsewhere. The kitchen wasn't to hot so to speak, I just don't like working around cockroaches. So, I hope that you get a straight answer to this valid concern. I support your effort in gaining some clarity on the issue(s) with this site, as I have seen for the past year. I keep hoping that someone at the headquarters will have an "ah ha" moment and listen. Hope being a fading word.
Thank you so much, Jennifer. I realized before I started this thread it would not be popular with those who indeed rally around TPTB on HP. I've sat back and watched as this drama has unfolded and kept my mouth shut until this latest fiasco has come to a head. To claim the idle /feature program is helping weed out the chaff is laughable as the example of the copied hub being instantly featured is nothing new here.
How is it I can notice this happening when the site techs do not? "We're working on it" and "nothing is perfect" is not acceptable when good honest folks are being penalized by this failure of a program. I'll be looking for some indication--numbers, graphs, or some other such proof the system is working at least a little bit--from Simone or either Paul E..
The answer I receive will tell much about how well the contentious program is working. I think we will all discover how much the writers are appreciated by the response from the top.
It is possible....but I don't think a copied hub would have been a good test. I don't think MTurk workers are supposed to check whether a hub is original or not, just comment on its quality. The hub is actually not bad in terms of quality it seems to me. It is formatted quite well, the problem is that it is not original.
Sounds like a bug in the system - I don't believe it would be maliciously done by staff!!!
Hardly. They would either be publishing stolen material or have gone to the effort to get permission to put up copied stuff, along with a new profile. Just a wee bit unlikely either way.
Sounds more like another effort to improve the QAP that isn't working.
No, the QAP is designed by those who think themselves capable of determining. what "quality" is. Ask yourself this. Who decided they were capable of making this decision with all of the other junk they still feature here and who allowed the junk to remain and was responsible for the major google slaps this site received before. The same people who screwed up before, that's who. Apparently they learned nothing since then, but I will gladly wait for one of the members of the think tank to respond. I won't hold my breath for a lucid answer, though.
Wrong, Randy, and you know it. The QAP is designed by those people desperately trying to satisfy the requirements of "quality" as determined by google.
Nor are they responsible for the major google slaps of Panda, Penguin or any of the other updates. This site was extremely successful prior to those updates; the powers that be followed the rules of the game. They are not responsible for changing the rules however much you would like to blame them.
I've been here almost twice as long as you, wilderness and have seen so much that you haven't. Many of us warned HP before the very first Google slap they were heading for a fall by allowing garbage to be published here, but as usual they are the geniuses who know best as indicated by this stupid program. And yes, their bad judgement is the direct cause of the many penalties HP has received from Google.
I know you feel they have your best interest at heart, but you would be wrong once again. Following many bad decisions with even more does not help anything. HP doesn't have a clue what Google wants, and if they did we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. Do you suppose the staff all of a sudden received enlightenment? Yeah right. And how is the present system working out? Have they shown us any stats from the vast improvement in quality or earnings? No, because they can't!
No. HP most definitely does not have my best interest at heart, although I do choose to believe that they do care at least somewhat.
HP has it's own best interest at heart, and that does not include ruining all traffic to the site. Nor, IMHO, does it include allowing the site to fill with trash - thus the QAP.
Has the staff suddenly received enlightenment? More than either you or I, I would imagine. They do have more resources, more experience and far, far more data to work with. I would hope they have more enlightenment than either of us.
HP doesn't show you daily earnings for any hubber but yourself or for the site as a whole? And from this you deduce that the earnings are falling daily? Again, you know better. It is none of your business, they have no reason to show you any stats at all and are highly unlikely to ever do so whether they can or not. You want to know what their income is, buy some stock in the company.
I disagree slightly - they do have your best interest at heart - not because they want you to succeed - but because if you DO succeed then they are making more money.....
To some degree, of course. On the other hand if they believe they will earn more by shutting me down then I expect to be shut down.
On the whole my success is theirs as well, but there are exceptions. I recall a hub somebody found that very obviously convinced readers they were a part of Verizon (I think that's what it was, anyway). A huge traffic earner, and it cost HP to get rid of it.
LOL! They could not care less if either you or I make another dime here, wilderness. they would boot you in a heartbeat despit the times you and others make excuses for them. I asked Simone a question, not you, not Simey, not MSTurk, or Ms. Missy, or any other of the APs who suddenly post here without any of the answers I seek.
You guys don't like the questions and don't know the answers either. So what in the heck are you responding to my post for? I mean really, are you guys staff? If not you are offering nothing substantial in the way of answering my queries. Simone is a big girl, she doesn't need your help, I'm sure. lol!
Dude, a website on the internet has turned you into a bitter little person.
I'm so sorry for you and your inability to move on with your life.
Life is short.
I do not see him as bitter. I see Randy as expecting HP to play fair and square with all hubbers. Let them answer for themselves. It was a direct and fair question. How is Randy's hub still waiting to be featured after 22 hours while a copied hub from a brand new hubber is featured in a matter of a speck of time? It is a fair question. There are some serious kinks in the system that need to be worked out by HP. It is fair to ask how and if and when they plan to work these kinks out.....
It's Sunday night, and as dedicated to the site as Simone is, she shouldn't be expected to just instantly answer. And she shouldn't have to deal with abuse and anger when Randy's problems weren't maliciously caused by her. She's a person. She deserves respect.
I never said I expected an immediate answer, nor do I feel the need to take up for her. I think Randy has a valid question and would like an answer ( whoever) from someone official on HP staff. I am sure Randy speaks for many hubbers here and they are waiting too. If the question Randy asks does not concern or interest you and you do not care about the issue then move to another thread and let this one be for those who want to know how HP is working through their system to prevent inconstant featuring of hubs.
Why? You already know the answer: "No insult intended. It is an error and we will try to fix it".
Whereupon the answer will not be accepted as true and more loud complaints made.
Or did you expect them to provide you with the programming code as proof? To be told that HP intentionally insulted Randy? That they will now let in all the garbage they can? That the author is Paul's grandson and can post whatever he wants?
What do you think the answer will be?
No, Summer, this thread is not about getting an answer to Randy's question of "How is this not an insult to myself.." or any other implied question. It is, pure and simple, another rant no different than those from the dozens of upset sock puppets a few months ago.
Why not let HP speak for themselves? It is a valid question that some hubbers are interested in having answered. If the question offends you, move on. If you think the hubber is being disrespectful to HP, then move on. If you think the question is not valid, then move on. What compels you to remain. IF you know what HP is going to say, then move on. Let those of us who have expressed an interest in the question have an official answer so we can make decisions about our probable future here on HP. Not from heresy but from a legitimate answer.
Well said... and THANK YOU for respecting the ethical value of the OP's directness and honesty!
I believe Randy asked for the appropriately qualified and named person to answer the original post.... I see absolutely no positive ethical value in the answers of hubbers who clearly consider themselves to be more superior, able to freely abuse the OP, or better qualified at being a Simone!
Genuine Transparency is in short order here for the majority of us here and factually appears to have been 'smudged' since the questionable practices and ethics applied during the 'quick buck' days!
That in itself should be addressed 'genuinely' and not so defensively as has happened on this thread!
Thank you, PD. I appreciate you taking this thread for what it was intended to be. I though long and hard before venturing back onto the forums again, and as you can tell by the many aggressive and insulting comments I received, there was a good reason why.
At least this thread injected a bit of life back into the community if nothing else. Too bad it deteriorated into such a contentious discussion with feelings running high on both sides. Perhaps it is better for me to return to writing my fiction now and leave HP to it's own devices. Thanks for your always valued opinion.
A barely out of teens child is lecturing me on how to move on with my life? You are one insulting little girl and will wake up to the reality of dealing with these businesses one day. Go ahead, believe everything these folks tell you and get back to me at a later date. Believe it or not, many just like yourself have contacted me and apologized for saying such to me after they found out I was telling the truth. Unbelievably naive!
Ahahaha, like I haven't been called a little girl or child or naive before by anyone on this website. Go ahead with it and pretend it's actually scaring me or making me back down. You don't know me and you don't know anything about my life so don't act like you do, okay?
Look at yourself. An old, bitter excuse of a man is trying to intimidate a "little girl" on the internet while petulantly and rudely demanding an explanation from staff on a Sunday night because he is incapable of controlling his own anger and emotions.
Which would you rather be? A young woman with a lot of potential and growth and learning ahead of her, or a very sad, hollow old man past his prime who can't get a grip on himself?
LOL! If you believe this place is so important to me you are sadly mistaken, Shanna. I have very many things in my life to be proud of and writing on this little piss ant site ain't one of them. I'm not bitter at all as I've dealt with similar content farms before and with enablers like yourself. But you'll find out if you ever grow up. :p
I think I'll follow the old guy who seems to have lost more money here than you have made.
I read that comment you quoted, whoisit, and cringed. Why is this hubber not banned from the forums for such a verbal attack?
Beats me, Ive been banned twice for no reason at all. I think the answer can be found among some of the people replying here.
Oh, I've been banned. 24 hours. I know you're not supposed to use other accounts to get around forum bans so I won't post beyond this- Just wanted to let you know that the mods don't favor me. I got what I deserved and I definitely saw it coming, so now I'm getting off and serving my ban like I should.
I didn't reply to your question, I replied to other questions in a public forum. I didn't address you until you addressed me.
You can be as nasty as you want to me or anyone else you like. And in return we can say what we feel. Not everyone is unreasonably angry. I'm sorry we won't pick up our pitchforks and follow you, but your anger is your problem. I see no reason to hurt people personally because you don't like how a company is doing their business.
If you don't like it, and you are obviously unhappy with just about everything that happens here, why are you putting yourself through the misery of staying?
If I was any younger, I could justify jumping up and down on my couch while pointing at this post screeching "THIS THIS THIS".
A good question, Melissa. I'm not the type of person who puts in 4 years of work into a site and lets those who doesn't like my opinion make me leave. I suppose you would run off if you were in my place instead of trying to make things better and to hold the staff up to ideals they expect of you? You really didn't seem like the type to back off when someone crosses you or to run away instead of trying to make things better for yourself or the friends you made here. I had you pegged wrong, I suppose. Run away! Yeah right! lol!
You've really got yourself built up to be some sort of brave vigilante, don't you?
Don't trip on your cape Batman...
Again, why are you making these personal attacks. Do you not have anything to say about Randy's specific question like all the other hubbers. Are you trying to seduce him into returning your insults? Shame on you.
Are you suggesting it takes a brave person to confront mere staffers on a content farm? What is brave about asking for honesty from a business I am involved in? I've never had to take any guff from anyone in my life before as I've always worked for myself and not for others. Can you say the same? I suppose I can see why you would not be so brave yourself. I'm sorry!
No I don't back down. But I also know that being confrontational doesn't help either. It just shuts people down.
You are trying to get HP to change their policies because you are angry. I have never cared about anyone's anger and the vibes I get from P.E. is he really doesn't either. Emotions don't pay the bills. So if you want him to listen stop demanding things of him on his own site... which it is his own site.
You would go apecrap if someone came into your house demanding things be changed as well or demanding answers on why you are doing what you are doing.
You are essentially trying to lead a revolution. That's going to work about as well as a teenager leading a revolution against his parents. You want to get through? Try discussing. You may or may not see any changes but you DAMN sure aren't going to this way.
Are you actually implying that a constructive comment is more...well...constructive than a rant to third parties?
What a novel suggestion!
Are you speaking for P.E. or Simone now? And how is asking for an explanation for the screwed up featuring system being out of line? Others have asked before about the same problem and received a BS answer or none at all. I asked for an official answer from the powers that be. What problem is it of yours, Melissa? You got a dog in this hunt? Do you have an answer for me? If not, why are you on this forum?
No Randy, I'm not speaking for anyone but myself.
If you can start a forum with a complaint under the guise of improving a site then I figure I can reply to it under the same guise.
I can probably do it without personally insulting others just because they don't agree with me too.
My answer to you would be the same thing the staff should tell you. If you don't like it start counting guardrails. Start your own blog and run things just the way you like.
No one has to deal with a verbally abusive person, no matter what his motivations are.
And I verbally abused you? LOL! And everyone has been so polite to me in return? lol! I didn't ask any of you guys for the answer to my queries. Volunteers rush in...... lol! Care to predict what the answers will be?
It doesn't matter, because unless it's "Yes Lord Randy, you are completely correct and we fall to grovel at your feet" you aren't going to accept it anyway.
Its called poisioning the well Randy. Manipulators do it when their argument is weak. It rouses pubic opinion so that nothing the other person says will be accepted. Even if it's valid.
Like I said, you are trying to lead a revolution. Is a forum banning really worth this level of revenge? The only reason you are mad about HP supposedly ruining the site is because YOU want to do it.
You are attempting to create a following to "hurt" HP. You are being exceptionally manipulative in doing it. Let's check your ulterior motives before you start discussing HP's.
Who cares what you think, Melissa? You are probably the one who featured the hub I referred to in the first place. Go give your opinion to someone who appreciates it. And really, I don't see anything you have to crow about on HP either. Just what is your claim to fame?
How could I have featured it if it never went through QAP?
So now my opinions don't count because you think you are more popular?
Poisoning the well again? I must not have anything valid to say because I don't have people coming to an angry revenge hub to complain about how much HP sucks?
I don't desire a claim to fame and I don't need to be the center of attention... even if it is negative. I also don't need everyone to agree with me to feel validated.
Keep attacking Randy. I've known people like you all my life. My claim to fame is I've written some hubs. I believe that's the same as your claim to fame... you know except all the anger and trying to get revenge and pulling in a bunch of people because I am pissed over a forum ban and manipulating people by pretending that you care about them but really only using them to further your agenda, and trying to discredit people because they disagree with you... So yeah other than that last stuff we are pretty equal.
And now you're going to tell me how many views you have and how many followers and how many comments to manipulate people into seeing how silly my opinions are and how I shouldn't be listened to... oh but you can't do that now because I've already said you were going to.
Ha! you act as though I care what your opinion is, Melissa. I didn't start this thread to attack anyone but I've spent most of the time defending the premise of my question. No one had to respond because neither you or anyone else can answer my query. And you are wrong again, I'm not banned from the forums and haven't been for a long time now. I was simply tired of conversing with cheerleaders every time I had a question about the many changing aspects of the site.
I often find those defending HP have very little knowledge of what went on here before they joined, but this didn't prevent them for acting as if they did or giving advice to those who knew better. You can still see some of it on this very thread. Speak your mind, I expect that of you and would not want to curb your opinion like many try to do mine. I am an honest person, despite your opinion of me, and I don't ask these type questions merely for myself, but for the good friends I've made here over the years.
You guys may think my motives are selfish, but you would be wrong. This isn't the first content farm I've written on and it's certainly not the first I've had to deal with less than.....forthcoming staffers either. I promise you my motives are honorable. Can you say the same?
Melissa doesn't have to tell you that her motives are honorable. I can tell you that and almost anyone who knows her around here can too. I think the confusion is that you think we're trying to give you a hard time.
Not the case.
Everyone is trying their best to show a different perspective in an effort to help. Some of us aren't doing it very well. But that doesn't mean that we don't care or don't think you should. Let's see what the answer is. No sense arguing about it till we know what it is, IMO.
Now, everyone put away the knives and the tempers and discuss it like grown ups. Or I swear, I'm going to count to three....
Sure, Mo. I just have no patience for "maybes" or "perhaps" from those who have very little experience on HP. They help nothing at all and already knew my position to begin with. The attitudes of some of these same people are why I avoid the forums anyway. I can get guesses out of anyone.
Actually Randy, I can 100 percent say my motives are honorable.
Whether you realize it or not you are being exceptionally manipulative. I usually say something when I see that. I could go back through this thread and point out at least a half a dozen places where you've invalidated someone's opinion based on personal attacks.
I shouldn't have an opinion because I'm a turker. (Even though the questions I initially answered in the thread were MTurk questions.) Simone says what they tell her to say so her answer is invalid. Shanna is young and a Mormon, so her answers opinions are invalid. You even used that to try to get Wilderness to agree with you- that she had to be unreasonable because she was religious. You question our motives for our opinions rather than the opinions. You try to sway public opinion by saying basically "Their opinions don't count because..."
You insult those who don't agree with you. Yet freeze when someone questions your own motives. If you weren't upset about the ban... why the hub? Actually why the three hubs about it? I've read through them, and I invite your followers to do the same. How many times have you shut even your friends down in the comments if they say anything positive- or even unnegative about hubpages? How many times have you made fun of people who posted on these forums because they have a different opinion than you?
You've gathered followers and are bullying. You posted this thread as a "look at me" way of establishing your "leadership". You predicted what the answer would be so Simone couldn't say it was a glitch-which it most probably is- without you saying she was "spinning it"
And I don't care if you care about my opinions or not. I'm talking to the people who you are manipulating... whether they are aware of it or not. It's not right to use a person as a tool. Disagree all you want, but this isn't high-school. Bullying and cliques are as silly and harmful now as they were then.
If you disagree with what HP is doing, great. How brave would you have been if you would have been standing on your own? If you didn't think you had your own cheerleaders?
My motives? I hate bullies. I hate manipulators. And I hate people who purposely upset other people so they can use them as an ego boost. I hate unproductive drama too, but I think that's just a side effect of all this.
To the people who are supporting you: Most of you I'm actually quite fond of. That's what makes me even more angry. You have voices that could be used to help, but you are following in the lead of someone who will just cause more hard-feelings. Decide if it's worth it. Take a look over how he's really treated those who were in the clique but are gone now because they didn't have big enough pom poms for HIM.
And now I'm done. You can say whatever you like, I know how you claim that last word equals victory. I have no such compulsions.
Been reading hubs and comments, have you? I thought it sounded as you might have been...
I returned a QAP of one of them, then went to look afterwards.
Hah! Knowledge sometimes has a funny way of getting around. Maybe I better start up on Mturk.
I did, wilderness, but I refuse to do any HP work on MTurk. There is far too much other stuff there to work on that pays a heck of a lot better.
Just joking anyway. I looked at MTurk, but decided I wasn't really interested. While I can enjoy writing hubs, I didn't retire to pick up another 40 hour job for minimum wage (or less).
LOL, I make a little bit more than minimum wage at it. I was doing transcription before HP started. Now I split the two. I earn around 10.85 per hour with hp and up to 19.80 an hour doing transcription (way less an hour if I'm dealing with the kiddos.) It's not great but it's flexible. I need flexible. As it is I only get maybe 5 hours in a good day.
Maybe I will. I would probably be willing to put a few hours a week in at $10 or something close to that. I can't imagine it being fun, but a few hours per week wouldn't kill me.
Don't laugh, but a lot of my money comes from writing obituaries. I actually get paid writer's guild rates (NWU) for it. (except kids obits, I can't bring myself to charge for them, but I generally get a cake or cookies) MTurk isn't for everybody, and some of the hits are really sucky. I sometimes feel the need to justify myself when people think I'm making 50 cents an hour.
Huh! I think I could write obits, although not kids ones. And if I could write one for a child I could never, ever charge for it. I'm so bad that every time I pick up my grandkids from school I still think of Sandy Hook and get scared and teary eyed - don't know that I could get through writing an obituary for anyone around their age.
My son's obit was so poorly written that it was almost shameful. When I went in to make a payment a few months later I mentioned it. The poor guy that was doing the paperwork was the one who also wrote the obits. I told him that when there were babies, I would do it for him if he didn't feel up to it. I started getting calls for adults not long after that, and then from other funeral homes (its a small town).
They added my fee into funeral expenses (they were already charging for it anyway) and such a really morbid semi-career was born. NWA rates are a dollar per word.
Dammit, I didn't know I needed to bring pom poms!
I just came in to try and defuse the meanness. I failed miserably.
That's okay, though. I'm still not mean, and that's all that matters.
I also feel really...I don't know...apathetic about the whole thing, I guess. It seems to me that HP staff does what they do. I don't cheer them on or feel the need or the right to ''call them out'' as it were.
I write here and I enjoy it. I participate in the community and do what I can to help the site. Most of the time I feel like I'm just a really small fish in a big pond. I'm okay with that. I prefer the behind the scenes stuff most of the time anyway.
Sigh. I think you've been far kinder than was warranted, Mel.
No, Mo, you're not mean. About the most "un-mean" person around, in fact.
I know I should not have allowed myself to be drawn into this thread, but...I just hate to see the community splintered that way. It used to be a great place until the sock puppets began a continual attack on HP and HP people and it's just gotten worse. It's one thing to give constructive criticism, ideas and potential solutions or report possible glitches and it's another to constantly attack the integrity of the people or site. Not only the outright attacks but the continual barrage of little snide comments have gotten really old and they do absolutely nothing to help anything or any body.
Oh, wilderness, that's exactly how I feel! There are so many who truly live by the 'divide and conquer' adage. It sickens me.
And, thank you. I may not be wealthy or in possession of the many, many degrees I wish I had, but I try to be kind - even when I'm angry. It takes an awful lot to get me to say a mean word to or about anyone, and even when I'm in the right, I suffer terrible guilt about it for days afterward.
I'm like Melissa in that I hate bullies, but for all my life, I've tried to befriend them rather than let them push me away. I'm always the one who befriends the one guy everyone else can't stand...probably in the subconscious hope that others will learn to like him.
Motown, you are already wealthy beyond what most people ever will be and have degrees in life that fewer yet will attain. Wealth isn't always money and degrees don't always come from colleges - sometimes it is what is inside a person rather than the car they drive or the piece of paper they can produce.
I love that you are a peacemaker hon. You'll forgive me if I don't shut up until I say what I gotta say... right?
BTW, got caught in a snowbank. Is the coffee still hot?
Part of why I love you is because you don't shut up till you say what you have to, silly. I respect it and wish I had more of it in me. Often, I say something I think is tremendously important and people just ignore it anyway. I'm not sure why except that it doesn't always further the drama, so they tend to look it over for something more inflammatory.
And in my house, the coffee is ALWAYS hot, and I'll always wait till the snow melts.
And can you point out the personal attacks made by yourself and others towards me? Did you have the answer to my query or simply felt impelled to put in your own 2 cents worth?
You surely do have an opinion and I'm not fooling myself to expect you not to give it, not you. And you being a turker--as you put it--has nothing to do with anything but clearly you make money doing it. So yes, it does tend to make one think you have your own biases towards the program. Simone hopefully will tell us something, whether or not she is instructed to do so by her betters. And if she addresses the question thoroughly is another thing as this remains to be seen. And I didn't try to sway anyone's opinion using Shanna's religion and merely used a statement by her to jab back at her. She started insulting me first without provocation. I could care less whatever god she worships as one is a s good or bad as another in my opinion.
i didn't ask anyone what THEY thought. This includes you also. If i had thought you had some knowledge I required I would have asked the question of you. You admitted yourself you didn't know the answer so what are you wasting both of our time for? I suppose you don't realize many of us use the aforementioned hubs to talk amongst ourselves without being bothered by the likes of you and the other cheerleaders on the site, but don't take my word for it, ask the others. Why 3 hubs? Because the first one has around 2000 comments on it and has gotten so slow I was requested to make others. One with over 800 comments is unpublished and the others are very slow. So much for your erroneous theory but that is par for the course in your case. I've never shut my friends out int eh comments but only at their request. One was unpublished because I did allow a comment to remain. So you are completely missing the target with your erroneous assumptions Melissa, but you cannot see that I'm sure. Ask if you don't believe me.
I've bullied no one and I have to laugh at this coming from a person with your attitude. And you are trying to establish some sort of leadership for yourself, apparently. Good luck with that! And why would it be a glitch when several before me have pointed it out and Simone has responded with nothing meaningful.
I certainly don't care to be talked down to by you of all people. Try some other simple hubbers if you want success in this endeavor.
Unlike you, I require no one to cheer for me, especially those who toe the company line.
This so wrong I don't know how to respond the the ridiculous BS you wrote here.
I have no idea who you are referring to as my supporters who are not here now. I still have the same friends I always had here and still converse with them also. And what clique are you talking about, Melissa?
Please name names if you have the orbs. And unlike you, make no claims I cannot back up. You seem to be the chief apologist for HP lately, especially when Simone is not around. Getting a little extra pay from HP are you?
If you only want to hear from Simone, message her and get off the forum.
I'm interested in the answer to your question, so I'm on the thread. No, I don't know the answers, but I can see where your aggressive, rude approach is unlikely to get cooperation and answers for any of us. I'm sure you're a talented writer, but if you're that angry about HP, there *are* other sites you can spout venom to. I've found HP to be better than most about responding to concerns and providing answers.
Better yet, why not go start your own site where you can show us all how things should be done? I'd love the benefits that will come with your perfected system.
Who the heck are you to tell me to get off of the forum? Oh, another special hubber, I see.
How many content farms have you been a member of to be so knowledgeable about how the concerns are addressed here? And I suppose you are another who simply runs away after putting many years into a site and doesn't seek answers to things which make absolutely no sense at all. Who forced you to comment concerning the problem I have with HP's unfair system of featuring hubs? You could have simply waited for the answer as everyone else should and not attacked me in the process. This seems to be a ritual by the APs and certain others here lately when someone questions this program. I suppose it goes with the title?
I doubt seriously you'd like my system if I developed one as it would only be for experienced writers, not those which have to be mentored by other inexperienced writers.
Sorry, but I believe my hub score reflects that I'm a reasonably experienced writer regardless of AP status.
I'm not attacking you. In fact, I actually agree with you on several points. But the way you are approaching this with hostility and condescension is going to INTERFERE with getting the answers we need.
Yes, I have been through the AP program, and have both praise and criticism about it. I dislike some changes I've seen and appreciate others.
You've raised a valid point. I'd like to see the answer, too. But you want to come in and use a demanding tone and throw criticism around liberally, yet you're staying. You're hurting your own credibility here. If you want to criticize, offer up the good, too.... After all, there's a reason you've been here three years instead of over writing for Zemandi, right?
As far as who I am... someone who took a couple years away from the rat race and supplemented my regular income with writing for a few hundred bucks a month. Nobody special, in other words, but dedicated enough that I am not completely clueless about the various writing sites, either.
Sorry, but hubscore is meaningless. I at one time kept a 100 profile score almost all of the time for years, not to mention several 100 scored hubs at the same time. So don't rely on this to indicate the quality of your writing. I never did.
And any day now I will have been here 4 years total. Now this does give me reason to to feel more experienced than many who have criticized me on this forum. I certainly do hope we get some clarification on this frustrating system as it is very much overdue IMHO.
As I mentioned in another post - programming, especially for the web is a very tricky thing. Even if the QAP is 99% right, the 1% that gets through or doesn't even get to the QAP (as seems to be the case) will stand out - a good example of this is Google - Google cannot create an algorithm to remove the garbage from their results - so if they can't with billions of dollars how can HP do a perfect job - it's just not feasible....
...I agree with Randy that this needs to be addressed and if it is a bug then we should no - I think the biggest problem is the lack of communication...
I agree all the way; the only thing I might add is that it seems a little silly to begin demanding an immediate answer on Sunday night. You, I and everyone on this thread knows there will be no answer until sometime tomorrow at best, assuming that the reason for that hub slipping through can be found by even then.
I am pretty sure it is not maliciously done, but the idled hub, pending etc. have made a lot of people angry, so if the system is "buggy" and doesn't seem to be working well, that is a big problem. If you are asking people to put up with very annoying changes, then you really should make sure that the system works. Of course we don't know how many 'copied content' hubs were never published, it might be that the system works 99% of the time, which would be pretty good.
I think the worst thing about all the changes is that they really don't seem to have done the site that much good. Surely by now the bad stuff that is pulling the site down should be deindexed, so the penalty should be removed. If you look at the Quantcast curve, it seems to be pretty much flatlining.
Staff have pointed out that the system hasn't really touched the backlog of older hubs - I personally feel this should be a major priority - but, if the system is still buggy - imagine the outrage that would occur if out of the 2,000,000 bad hubs that were un-featured, 100 stellar hubs were also un-featured. Sadly it's a huge catch-22 for HP - if they don't do anything they get hugely criticized, when they do they get criticized for not doing it right....
I agree about the catch-22 for HP. However, you know from your experience that a lot of stellar hubs get unfeatured ( I actually prefer the term idled) because they don't get traffic. I think this is one of the things that is making people angry, that good hubs that don't get much traffic are idled, while copied hubs or "sexy pictures" hubs get through.
I am not personally angry, and I do admit that I don't have a very good understanding of what is involved, but it does seem to me that the focus right now is in precise quality assessment (the difference between a good, a very good and an excellent hub), rather than bad, harmful hubs and ok hubs, which is a bit puzzling.
Agree - I've had some very good hubs (IMHO) go un-featured. However it has made me take a really good look at them (after my rant!) and realize that some of the headings certainly could be improved to gain more traffic.
Someone (can't remember who) came up with a brilliant idea the other day - there should be a 'warning this hub could become un-featured soon' icon so I can take a look at the hub prior to the surprise...
No one outside of HP has much understanding of the problem.
No one else has any idea of the cost, either in terms of immediate payments or long term loss of income, and they don't care.
No one else has any idea of the programming involved, and doesn't care.
No one else is concerned what effects might be seen on anyone but themselves.
No one else has any idea what positive effects might be resulting, as few report them.
I do know since Aug. of 2011 I've lost over $12,000 because HP wouldn't rid itself of the spam and junk it was warned about. And this was with many less hubs than I have now. Yes I know, peanuts. Not anything to be upset about, right?
Upset? Sure. Absolutely.
Laying blame without the faintest knowledge of a cause or any solution? No. Especially when you know the root of the problem lies with Panda - before that the garbage produced large sums of income and everyone was happy.
This system is a definite failure and whoever designed it should be kicked off the site. there is nothing to show it has ever worked at all and is certanily not worth the anguish and bad feelings it has caused to the veteran member of the site. You tell me why my hubs have to wait for over 20 hours while this other crud is featured when I've never had a hub refused in almost 4 years? Pretend you are Simone and give it your best shot if you will. lol!
If we catch them we can flag them. But no, there is no requirement to scan for originality. I've caught a couple that were copied but I've probably missed a few too.
Maybe I should run a line through Google more often.
Randy said the hub he is upset about did not go through the whole Mturk process. It couldn't have if it appeared half an hour after publishing.
This leaves us the question as why some people, including brand new hubbers with no record, are being allowed instant featuring while the rest of us aren't? This a valid point and some answers would be appreciated.
Actually, today it conceivably could have gone through QAP in 30 minutes. The queue is rather short today.
Plus, HP is making an effort to shorten the time required.
So then why did mine take 22 hours to feature, Melissa? Sorry, merely grasping at straws now aren't you?
I don't know.
I just stated a possibility. I know the queue is short.
No need to be hostile. You really don't have to jump on someone for saying something that doesn't amount to "HP is garbage" Other people really are allowed to be ok with the things that are happening.
A question - does anyone here have programming experience particularly on the web? I introduced a 'product' for my company on the web - it was tested thoroughly for six months by several different groups. Several years later we are still seeing bugs in the system that simply were not foreseen. I'm not saying that this is the case with the system on HP - but I know from experience that things will never always work the way you expect them to - that's the nature of the web and programming. Heck if things worked perfectly every time then there wouldn't be a million updates to Windows every year!
Is there a problem with HP's system - yes - so report the problem. If HP development team are worth their salt then these problems will be sorted in time...
I would prefer for someone official to reply to Randy's questions so we are not left speculating to the cause. Although the responses are interesting and can be correct, I hope HP does not sidestep a direct answer to Randy as they reply indirectly to other hubbers responses.
Agreed - clear and concise communication is needed - I'm not trying to be obtuse and disagree with Randy for the sake of disagreeing - Randy has a valid question and should receive a valid answer...
The thing is, even if he gets a valid answer is it going to make him feel any better?
I think several people have already made up their mind that any answer they get is going to be unacceptable.
I don't think communication can happen under those circumstances. All that can happen is bitterness. I don't really see the point. Simone is going to get jumped either way. Either they are going to believe she is lying or they are going to say that a mistake proves HP is incompetent.
Once again, I just don't see the point.
Just because you don't see the point doesn't mean there isn't one, Melissa. You have a vested interest in continuing with the MTurk program so a bias is definitely there on your part. I don't think you can deny it, can you? Or you can kill the messenger if it makes you feel better.
Simone is Simone. She'll say whatever they tell her to say and more than likely it won't be much but "the system is still being tweaked" or some other such bull cookies like we usually get.
I do have a vested interest, but not as big of one as you might think.
I made just as much money on MTurk before Hubpages as I make with them... actually with a little less work. I do the hub hits because it makes me feel good to be helping out. If it was purely for the money I would be doing transcription. I also enjoy reading the new hubs. You can assume that I am in it for some nefarious reason but sorry I'm really not.
It also kinda sucks for you to essentially be saying that Simone has no mind of her own. She has been nothing but nice in every post I've ever seen her make.
The system IS still being tweaked. It's a big change and mistakes happen. You aren't perfect, so why are you so angry about others not being perfect?
I know SimeyC. This comment was not directed at hubbers here but the staff. I have asked a direct question of the staff in a forum thread only for them to answer questions of hubbers comments and not directly answer me. I just indirectly letting the staff know I am still waiting on an answer Randy's question. Randy asked his question in the thread so I think it is healthy for all hubbers to have their say, but I hope HP answers.
This is disturbing. A copied article gets rushed through the "system" and becomes published in apparent record time. Many other hubbers have to be queued in a waiting or pending state and checked out before being published and then featured if the quality is good enough. And many writers still report falling views and stats on their writing.
I wonder what are the stats for this - like, how many hubs get read as opposed to how many get read and published straight away, similar to this one. We need more information on numbers here. What is the actual success rate on hubs getting published? Or is this information available?
Another question about the Mturk system of vetting articles for publication. Is this the best or only system out there that can accommodate this? Is this is? Sounds like there is a damn gap in the market!
It is almost certain that there are better systems. Hiring enough people to thoroughly read and examine each hub is one such; will you donate another 50% or your earnings, on top of the 40% already taken, to help provide that system?
Add in that no one actually knows what the term "quality" means to google and you have just an inkling of the problem. Not an understanding, but enough to know there is no simple answer.
"LOL! If you believe this place is so important to me you are sadly mistaken, Shanna."
Well gee, I dunno. With your constant rants about this website, it seems like you care very much. If something wasn't important to me, I wouldn't be getting my underwear twisted so tightly about it all the time. But maybe I'm more rational than some....
And if growing up means being anything similar to you, I'm just fine where I am, thanks.
I'm not going to touch the "underwear" thing as I know you are of the Mormon cult. And whether you are more rational than I is a matter of opinion. lol! And I haven't been on the forums for a long time so, so much for the "constant complaining." lol! Isn't it past your bedtime? :p
Hahaha I actually laughed out loud at that. I'll sacrifice a goat for you and pray for you soul, solely because I know you won't want me to.
And it's only 8:45. I got another fifteen minutes or so.
Just ask one of your husbands what he thinks. :p
Ooh, instead of multiple wives we're doing multiple husbands now?
I could get on board with that...
I could take that vague statement in so many different ways, it's not even funny.
Actually, she didn't. She used the word 'board' correctly. You don't get 'on bored' with something. You get 'bored' with something.
Randy, give yourself a break and just see what HP has to say when they're back at work.
That's what I thought, but then I started wondering if there was some sort of perverted/weird hidden meaning....
I was referring to her husband, Mo! This was an example of "sarcasm."
Ouch. You've hit my weak spot. Nineteen and unmarried. The shame is suffocating.
As for whether or not my husband will be bored.... let's just stop that right there. It's too weird to be discussing my future sex life with old men. I'm sure you can appreciate that...
I assume your parents haven't arranged an old man for you to marry yet? (j/k)
Oh dude.... sometimes I feel like an arranged marriage would solve like half of my problems in life. It would just make things so much less complicated.
Unfortunately my parents don't agree.
God arranged my marriage, Shanna. He apparently didn't think ahead about the uncomplicated thing...but then I think anything involving more than one human being gets complicated.
He sure gave me the best husband in the world, though.
Nope. I got the best husband in the world. Micheal has to settle for the silver
Here's hoping he arranged someone halfway decent for me, too.
Randy, there is a certain hubber whom I have not seen in the treads in a long time only to show up here and stir up trouble for you. I really do not know why. That hubber does not seem to have and interest in the topic of discussion but is intent on personal harassment. Sorry, bro. Like Marcy said it is a valid question. Hopefully, it will get a valid answer in spite of the noise created by a disingenuous hubber. Goodnight, friend and don't forget to cover those citrus trees tonight- dipping in the 20's here.
I know, I know. How come you can all be so nice to me but so rotten to each other? I wish I could give you all my Mom face over the computer.
Now everyone stop snarling and try to discuss this with a little bit of respect and reason - all the way around. You are indeed a much nicer man than you're coming across on this thread, Randy. I know it for a fact.
I don't know about that, Mo. We have all been given the runaround about this program. I suppose I take it personally when a 14 hour old newbie gets his copied hub published and featured instantly while my hubs take 20+ hours to get the same result. And then when I try to find out why, the cheerleaders berate me for asking such a question of their mentor-in-chief. I've already stated I'll be waiting for Simone or Paul's response and we all can decide how aboveboard their answers are. If they even answer this time, that is.
Ah, Randy, I think it got lost somewhere in all the barb throwing, but everyone does agree that you have a valid question. None of us is able to answer it, though, and there are those for whom it isn't as much of an issue. No one thinks you're wrong to question or to care as much as you do. In everyone's own way, they are trying to maybe help you ... soften the edges of your approach so that you get a decent answer in a timely manner.
It's the whole catch more flies with honey thing. Only problem is, someone opened a whole vat of vinegar. No one was making the point they wanted to very well.
I dunno, I really liked my batman point. It was more of a comeback, but I'm quite proud of it. I'm definitely filing it away for future use.
Flies? lol! Spiders may be a more appropriate metaphor for what I am trying to snare. Or perhaps Lightning in a bottle is easier to capture than a straight answer from Simone. You don't think I've tried to communicate with her one-on-one before? Why do you think I am venturing onto the forums and subjecting myself to these particular people again if I could get a straight answer from staff? And why do you think many have posted the stupid hubs on the forum which have been flagged many times before? It's because they refuse to remove them until others see how terrible they are when Simone blathers on about "quality" being most important here.
It's really too bad we have to go to such extremes to get them to make a move in some manner. The same for me posting my question here. Now see If she ignores it in front of you guys. What do you think?
Hey - give Simone a chance! For all we know, you may have spotted an issue the staff needs to know about Give it a day or so for them to check it out. I doubt they want that sort of junk slipping through the Turk thing, either. Thanks, again, for spotting it.
I think if your issue is with HP, you should save the anger and frustration for them, not throw it around at folks who really seem to be sincere in trying to help you.
I like you, Randy, you know that. But you know as well as I do that there isn't a person on HP aside from staff who's going to be able to give you a suitable answer. But, they try anyway - not because they're trying to give you crap, but because they are sincere in their desire to soothe the frustration of another member of the community. "These particular people" mean no harm to you.
Simone will answer the thread. I've never seen her ignore one before. But give yourself and everyone else a break. Let it go - for now - and give yourself the chance to see it from a different perspective.
If you've never seen Simone ignore a question before, then I wonder where you've been, Mo. And if the cheerleaders hadn't jumped in with being so defensive, the thread would have still been very short. As you stated--and I did too-- none of you guys can answer my query. I don't like excuses from the peanut gallery, as it were. And sure, I'll be holding my breath for Simone's enlightening response. You betcha!
Oh, you are such a brat! The peanut gallery happens to care about YOU, whether you care back or not, so there!
In all honesty, I pay very little attention to threads like this as a rule. The information is never consistent (whether it comes from staff or hubbers) and I just find it easier to hit the LC when I have a question. So, it may just be me being naive to think that Simone will answer you. I do believe that she will.
Have your many rants accomplished anything? Maybe she is more rational...
And that would be saying a lot. Because I still jump like five feet to get into bed at night lest the creatures under my bed get me.
I'm shocked you would defend her, wilderness.
Randy - there's more than one Mormon on this thread. I'm a card-carrying LDS member, too. Please keep our faith out of the discussion?
Sorry Marcy, I did consider my reply would insult you after posting my response to the little girl. I apologize to you personally.
This little girl is going to kick you in the shins and leave her legos out for you step on while barefoot.
Legos won't do it, Shanna. Leave out the jax. Of course, Mr. Randy will just snake his way around both, so you may have to come up with something else.
Just don't leave out one of your messy diapers for me to step on, Shanna. I hate it when you do that!
Shanna deserves respect regarding that, too - and I thank you for the apology. Accepted in love. You know I mean that, too.
I vote we all turn in for the night. Anyone want to second it?
Marcy, you are a respectful person who is always kind and thoughtful in your comments. You earn your respect. It is not free.
Let's just cut the crap and admit that we all thrive on bickering and drama on the Hubpages forums.
Holy crap - I replied to Izzy's comment before I read through the whole thread. Y'all should go back to page one & read through this all at once.
Randy does have a good question - everyone seems to agree to that. The system appears to be less than perfect, everyone seems to agree to that. Many people are frustrated at having their hubs stalled before they're featured. Lots of agreement there.
So - it appears the biggest problem is that Simone isn't online on a Sunday evening? And the way to deal with that is to bash each other?
Well, let's all share some comforting tea (those who want can grab the 'snacks' & a glass of water).
Randy - thanks for raising a question we all now have curiosity about. I hope Simone or someone can wade through this thread & look into it for us.
Love you guys!
Tea?! Marcy what are you thinking! Next you'll be suggesting we all get some coffee! D: (kidding)
Lol! HERBAL!! Should have specified!
Gotta go with Shanna here - no caffeine this late at night. Especially not when things have calmed down!
She was reminding me of the Word of Wisdom - I'm so used to having herbal tea that I forget there's another kind!
My parents freaked out when I told them I drank herbal tea. And that's saying nothing about what they did when I mentioned I drank a forbidden Coke....
Oh, thanks be to God that I'm Catholic. I might lose my mind without coffee. I used to work with an absolutely beautiful lady who was a Mormon (LDS) and we used to have such fascinating conversations! She drank almost nothing but water. I was continually amazed by that kind of discipline.
Don't know the Word of Wisdom, but do assume Shanna drinks no coffee. Or, in my ignorance, anything else with caffeine.
I'm LDS, too - the W of W is the doctrine that discusses alcohol, smoking, etc. The passage doesn't mention 'caffeine,' only 'hot drinks,' and that's been interpreted as regular tea & coffee. But it was written before Mr. Coke came along. So some members avoid that, but many do not interpret it that way.
Not long ago, they came out with an 'official' answer that soft drinks aren't included. There were some hilarious articles written that we could all 'drink up' now.
One wild life here, huh?
Well, live and learn. It's been quite a while since I was around LDS followers, but I always thought is was caffeine.
I'd never make it; I want my coffee in the morning, but mostly because it's a hot drink and not because it's coffee OR caffeine.
Goodnight - sleep tight. Pleasant dreams! Don't make me quote Rodney King here!
Seriously going to bed now - fun party; it's been real, and all that.
Since you guys are so off topic I will check back in tomorrow for the exciting answer to this contentious question. Bet it will be a dilly!
Hi Randy: et al. Of course it's a slap in the face for those of us who have been around a while. It is - or was - recognized by newspaper editors that nothing was edited without the writer's agreement, and that a tested columnist would have his stuff published with nothing more than proof-reading. But HP takes the attitude that they are dealing with hobbyists, not 'real" writers. In fact, they are not qualified to pass judgement on professional writer's work...no one is to the extent they demand it is altered of removed. Of course, HP are the pawns in all this, so is Google (etc), it is their toadying up to the advertisers and not wishing to offend them that is the engine driving this train.
I am in the phase with HP of being the red-blooded male (read writer) who is looking for a hot affair (medium) but is, so to speak, gently massaging the creative organ by publishing on this site. Also to keep in touch with some writers I admire; some friends found here, or hot chicks whose avatars have me slavering (real or plagiarized!).
And then, of course, "whether it is nobler in the mind..."
Ugghh, I can't get the image of you gently messaging your red hot creative organ all over this site, out of my mind! I'm going to be stuck with this for the rest of the day.
You know the hot auntie section of HP isn't going to make you blind, but you don't have to share with everybody that you've been there.
Good morning, Bob. Yes, quite a change around here, eh? When a member of 14 hours has a hub instantly featured--copied coincidentally--while those of us who have published here for many years are made to jump through the hoops like trained monkeys. And then to have the "elite" writers join forces to defend a system which hasn't improved anything I can see.
So far the "feature/idle" program has done nothing but cause the former loyal members much angst and frustration and has allowed more junk to be published and HP seems not to care the site is full of it as evidenced by the many examples being posted on the forums and other places on HP.
If anyone cares to keep a watch on the "latest hubs"--now hidden unless one searches for it for some reason --they too will discover how flawed it is. But we should not dare to point it out to TPTB because that would not be nice. Strange how many of the pets have asked me to go elsewhere for my answers. This is why I detest "special" titles because it empowers those sporting them to imagine they are indeed special in some manner. Sad really.
And like you, I have good friends here and running away from a problem is simply not my style. I doubt seriously they will ditch this program as HP seems stay with what is not working until it's too late, as evidenced by their past actions. More's the pity.
Taking 24 hours to feature article is not a bad idea, most of reputed article submission websites like Ezine Articles, Street Articles, Article Base take even more time to approve a article and you can't even as anybody, there is no one to reply. I waited on Ezine Articles for about 20 days and finally article was rejected.
And it is needed to maintain quality on website, HubPages is still good.
But way and criteria for article rating is needed to be improved, I came to know that HubPages rate hubs on the base of Mturk where only US residents are allowed to do that. I think here, Hubpages need to do something.
and secondly, The Idea of "Exclusive Titles" is not actually exclusive for HubPages and Hubbers I feel.
Otherwise, I like HubPages most for earnings and Search engine reputation. If you really had knowledge about user's experience and search engine's, you can do great here.
Making money online, internet marketing, affiliate marketing is not easy as before, Its is not just Hubpage but whole Internet Market is going tough. The time has gone when only limited people were aware about Internet Marketing, Competition is really great now and going to get tougher and tougher.
Apparently you didn't read the original question. I'm not complaining about having the hubs vetted by someone qualified--who that would be I really don't know at this point--but a program allowing new members to be instantly featured while veterans have to wait up to 24 hours is patently wrong. I don't think anyone can disagree with this premise. The system is flawed and it isn't getting any better despite statements to the contrary.
How would you like to made to wait up to 24 hours while someone who joined a few hours ago has their copied hub featured almost at once. This is the problem we are dealing with.
Add my name to the list of frustrated writers who would love to be able to publish instantly. It is disheartening to see others who are able to, especially when they have been on the site for mere hours and are publishing plagiarized material. There are many, many writers who have been here for years and who have never had an article flagged, rejected or unpublished, yet our articles are sent to be audited, while these spammers' articles are not. It is very depressing and frustrating.
How dare you complain, S&F! Look out for the pit bulls!
I'm a put bull and I'm not attacking her. In fact, I agree with her. I agree with the whole premise of the board. My problem with this board is the way you react and act Randy. You call me young, naive and childish, but you turn around and act the exact same way. We could all use a dose of humility, calmness, understanding and maturity when it comes to problems like this.
No fire was ever put out when people just keep adding more fire to it.
And you have offered absolutely nothing but fire in any of your comments here, Shanna. No excuses for the problems I have outlined, nor nothing productive at all. Just why are you here? And how old did you say you were when you joined here?
You're right. I've certainly been very hypocritical here and not so nice, and for that I apologize. But Randy, you've got to make an effort to be polite as well. I'm here because mostly I'm tired of seeing people trying to get problems addressed in unproductive, negative ways. The problems are even less likely to get solved when people are rude about them and that harms everyone on the site, not just you Randy. You're setting us all back.
I don't have any excuses for the problem because I see it as a problem. I agree that something needs to be done, but respect for the human beings who run this site is imperative.
I was eighteen when I joined this site-- perfectly legal. I haven't broken any rules.
Since you are unaware of my conversations with Simone and the other staffers--most who don't care to identify themselves--how do you know how I am treated by them, Shanna? I think this is an important factor in the mutual respect--or disrespect, for that matter--we have for each other. I realize you think you are doing Simone and TPTB a favor but i suggest you are delving into something you may not be aware of. But I do take this in consideration when trying to respond to your criticism of me. You have much to learn in this aspect.
Fair enough. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes between you and staffers, but you'll make yourself look a lot better and you'll win far more support to your side if you constantly present yourself in the best possible light in the forums. People may complain about such political tactics, but they DO work...
Randy - personal comment - I know you are an intelligent person, a great writer and mostly very courteous and willing to listen. Everyone on here often gets sidetracked by silly things and we end up making a circus out of a relevant thread. Perhaps to actually focus on the question at hand you could open a new thread and simply point out the facts of what happened, your concerns and your question. Don't add your feelings (however justified based on past experiences) - that way if you ask a calm question and get the runaround from staff our thoughts are not focusing on the wrong thing....
.....also, might be a good idea to provide a link to this forum and note that if anyone wants to discuss this question please post on the other forum - leave this one to staff only.....
I honestly don't think HP staff will touch this forum entry with a barge poll at this stage
So you don't think I should treat HP in the manner they have treated me, Simey? And why not if the answer is no?
Randy - I am not excusing the way you have been treated. I just feel that treating them the same way doesn't help you. If you were to ask the simple question:
"I've just noticed a hubber which only joined around 14 hours ago who had a hub published only 30 minutes or so ago and yet one of my hubs has taken longer to be published. Why would this happen?"
or something similar
and then you received your 'expected' response from HP then you achieve a lot more by opening up people's eyes.
I'm not explaining this well - without the confrontational tone inthe question you are putting HP on 'trial' - not sure how to explain it any better.
Good suggestion - but you might clarify your use of the terminology; "this question," "this forum," "this one" get a bit confusing.
I agree with you, SimeyC, that asking the original question without the use of loaded words and expressions such as "outrage," "insult to myself and many other Hubbers," and "no spin" could achieve quicker and more satisfactory results. Oh that, plus: remembering the weekend, holiday, and time difference.
And, I would like to ask again as I did earlier, how does one access "latest Hubs" to see the source of the original problem?
I understand Simey, and don't think your consideration isn't appreciated, it is. The problem is this has been discussed before with both Simone and Derek I think, but with vague and unsatisfactory responses from them both.
Perhaps because I've never had to work for anyone else my method of asking questions is more direct that what many of you guys are used to. The problem as I see it is Simone beats around the bush frequently and nothing ever gets settled as to queries made by the writers. I'm used to asking direct questions of those I do business with and those I deal with expect it as they themselves would expect it of me.
I've found that those who hem and haw when asked a pertinent question has a reason for it, usually it is to hide something or other they don't want to address. I have little patience with this sort of behavior and tend to be direct. I seriously doubt HP would accept the same behavior from our end. Seriously!
I have no doubt they are aware of how much trouble this system has caused those who furnish the income for their site, but beating around the bush only makes them look guilty, even if they aren't. If they are indeed professionals then they should act like it and give a straight answer to queries by those who make them money. Just my opinon.
I just feel that if you want a straight answer ask a straight questions. If you don't get a straight answer - then at the end of the day we all know where we stand.
I appreciate your candor and your passion - depsite the arguments on this forum I think everyone is on the same page - we all want HP to succeed.
I'm used to 'more direct that what many of you guys are used to' - sometimes this is needed - and I guess it did start an interesting debate (that got out of control) - but in the calmness that might one day descend a simple objective question would help all the doubters see the truth or not.....
I understand that someone like you - not meant in a bad way - cannot understand that you don't get a straight answer - I suspect the way you do business is by honor, a good shake of the hand and honesty - sadly that isn't too prevalent in society these days.
What I've learned (not saying that you haven't!) is that sometimes I get far more with roses than with 'crap'......even if I'm muttering the 'crap' beneath my breath...
Agreed once more, Simey. One of the first things I learned when I started writing on the net a little over 5 years ago is that content farms don't operate like those in the public eye. Internet sites and their owners don't seem to have any honor themselves and tend to ignore those who are indeed honest in their dealings with others. It took me awhile to recognize this and perhaps it is why I tend to ask more direct questions from them. And yes, my handshake and word still is my bond despite those who do not care for such anymore.
Yes, honesty is a rare thing these days, especially on the internet. I refuse to be corrupted by it though. I cannot speak for others.
Randy - but as someone who's worked for youreself all your life, have you never had to 'play the game' - you still get to keep your, honor, word and integrity but change your way of doing it occasionally?
If not - then you indeed are a different breed -and I mean that in a good way!
Fortunately I have been self-employed for most of my life, Simey. As a farmer one has to deal with all sorts of businessmen, bankers, equipment dealers and other people who will take advantage of you if you let them. I Iearned from my father that honesty is the best policy. I've observed him on several different occasions not make a deal worth thousands of dollars because the businessman would not drop his price 20 more dollars. He always got a better deal in the end somewhere else though. His principles meant more to him than the money. Sadly, this isn't the case these days for most people. I am not most people. I give people the respect they deserve, or perhaps the respect they give me in return.
I have a great respect for these type of principles in both your father and you. I also truly believe that you aren't always as cantankerous as many seem to think - which is why I made the suggestion to re-ask the question - at the very least you'll get the non-answer you expect and make a very clear point. (see note below)
I have known many farmers (having been brought up in Wales, the land of the sheep farm) and I know that they mostly say spade when they mean spade (errr shovel in the US) - but occasionally, they've toned down their actions without compromising their honor or integrity....
And I do truly respect your decision not to too.....
You refuse to be corrupted by honesty? Well, that sure explains a lot!
Apparently you cannot read well either, AF. I refuse to be corrupted by the internet, but you knew that already, didn't you? And what is your point in being here? Moral support?
I got my first e-mail account when I was 5. I have long-since been corrupted by the internet.
We are the future. The future is corrupt. I am scared of my generation.
Ah, corrupted by the internet. Sounds deep and metaphysical. And really, what are any of us here for? We live, we breathe, we write a couple articles and then we die. And then, what is life? What was all that anger and resentment for? Does it serve to warm us in our frozen graves? Does any of us truly require moral support? Or can we stand on our own as the winds of life batter us? Does it protect us from the rain or dry our soaked clothing to scream and rage at the unjust storms? Shall we bow our heads and let the filth and anger and conspiracy theories of the internet corrupt our minds, our bodies, but nay, never our souls?
Nay. Stand strong my brothers and sisters. We shall endure this hardship and emerge victorious into the sunlight of a new dawn.
Hahahahaha! You are so cute - I love that sense of humor. Uh...... sometimes!
Actually, I read quite well, but then, you knew that, didn't you? I read well enough to recognize the difference between an inessential parenthetical remark and the essential subject of a sentence. I'm sure a stellar writer such as you could have written the sentence in such a way as to leave no room for misinterpretation, if you had wished; but where would be the fun in that, eh? Not nearly as many fireworks... Fewer hornets' nests... Fewer rattlesnakes....
As for what I'm doing in this thread? (I assume that's what you meant, as opposed to what I'm doing on this planet.) I entered the conversation asking a question so that I could see for myself where to see the "latest Hubs" - a question that you assiduously ignored. Maybe the only reason you know for giving attention is for someone to jump up and down or to be snide or snarky? Maybe I could try to improve my skills in those areas.
I can't speak for Randy, but everyone has their point when they run out of patience. The subject of apparently hand-picked, "preferred" writers who get to publish immediately, while the rest of us are on the outside looking in with our noses pressed to the window, has been brought up before. If they have vetted these preferred writers by "collecting data" on them, so be it. If they don't have the time, funds, inclination or manpower to "collect data" on me, so be it. It is just really frustrating and depressing to see someone who has been here 14 hours getting to publish immediately.
That is all. This is the subject at hand IMHO. The duplicate content content stuff is a side issue that can be dealt with at another time in another thread.
Please read back through your threads. You never addressed the OPs question. You began your presence in this thread by criticizer the question asked. Take a close look. You might discover you are the fuel flaming the fire.
I may be part of the fuel, but I certainly wasn't the spark.
I agree with his question. I would like an answer too. I'm just completely put off by his initial lack of respect and rationality. There are better ways to bring up and solve problems wouldn't you agree?
Was it mature of me to be snarky back? Certainly not, but someone's got to remind Randy what it feels like to be poked and prodded unduly. Perhaps one day he'll learn it doesn't feel good and that maybe HP staff would be far more understanding and interested in the problems he discovers if he acted with decorum.
Picking a fellow hubber apart in a thread due to the fact you think his manner in asking the question to the staff at HP lacks tact is a bit on the level of over personal. If the staff is offended by the manner let them address it for themselves. Why bog down a thread with your righteous chastisement of a fellow hubber asking a legit question on the premise of assuming HP was even offended by the way the question was asked?
Because I would like to see the issue solved, and HP staff is probably unlikely to focus on this issue if people are being rude and nasty toward them. I know in my past jobs that when people had problems with the service or food or something and brought it up with me in a polite, respectful manner I would do everything in my power to make sure that issue was resolved quickly and satisfactorily.
People respond better to carrots instead of sticks. If Randy is messing up our chances of getting this issue solved by being rude to HP staff then he's setting back all the writers on this website and that's when the issue involves us all.
The only person and Issue they have to focus on is the OP original question. No need for them to venture any further into the forum thread.
And that is where our opinions differ. End of story.
If you have a different question then ask it in another thread.If you want the issue Randy addressed solved as you say and you are concerned with them ignoring the issue due to his manner of asking then bring the issue up again in your own thread if HP decides to forego the answer.
The point made is HP does not have to filter thru this entire thread( which went off topic) to address Randy's question if they don't want to.If your opinion is they need to read the entire thread before they answer then yes we have different opinions.
Who are you to judge his question was rude? I saw it as a very well articulated question which had a valid point. I may have been a bit more diplomatic in its deliverance but all the substance is there and who I'm I to analyze the question. I did not ask it. If you want it asked in a better manner begin a new thread asking the question to your own liking. If you are concerned the staff will not answer Randy's question due to the way he asked it. Let that be Randy's concern not yours. Maybe, you will or will not get a more speedy answer in your own thread. Who know worth a try.
We have very different opinions that will probably not ever be resolved, so I suggest that you take your own advice and leave the issues between Randy and I where they belong- between Randy and I.
Your personal opinion of Randy does not belong in a forum thread. Stay on topic.
You yourself admitted this forum was off topic. Who's to say what exactly the topic even is now? Give it up. None of my comments to Randy addressed you, had anything to do with you or asked for your input, but for some inexplicable reason you are determined to worm your way into them.
If you have the time to waste trying to involve yourself, that's your deal.
Shannan at some point I thought I was just addressing a normal persons immaturity, Giving gentle motherly direction to save you possible enbarrassment . I am not going to start throwing insults back at you, but I will say my son is 20 years old and I'm grateful he is stable mentally.
Ooohh, insinuating I'm mentally unstable? What's that I smell? A personal attack? Oh is that the sweet stench of hypocrisy coming off of you in waves?
Why, I do declare it might just be both!
By the way, it's Shanna. It's not that hard to get right.
It was not a personal insult. It was an observation that you are a difficult person to address in a rational manner.
Strange. I was feeling something similar about you. Maybe we're more alike than we thought! Imagine that...
No shanna11 we are not alike. I have way to many years and much more life behind me than you....
Yeah, must be rough to be long past your prime...
Oh, I'm sorry. Aging jokes are never very clever...
Enough, summerberrie. If you truly want to demonstrate motherly maturity, it is time to start doing so.
Shanna11 in general (throughout the forums) has been one of the most astute commenters that I have seen. You have latched onto her personally, even though she is merely expressing with youthful enthusiasm what other, older, Hubbers have expressed in this forum thread.
You need to drop this. You are not making your point effectively and your posts are becoming increasingly counterproductive.
Of course, this is merely your opinion, correct?
I hate this kind of comment; as if being older makes one better and more accomplished.
I am 22 years old. I have accomplished more in my young age than a lot of 40 year olds...Home loan, car loan, college degree... How many 40 year olds are still renting and living paycheck-to-paycheck?
I don't know anything about you, or Shanna, but the "years of wisdom" is in my an opinion, an insult thrown by those who have nothing else going for them. It's below-the-belt. Act your age, and quit picking on 18-year-olds. How about picking on someone your own age?
So does this apply to young girls attacking "bitter old men" also?
Dunno, but it sure doesn't help that public image of yours. Getting attacked by little girls. Sheesh, you make it sound like I threw a barbie doll at you while you cowered in the corner and cried.
Either you're not giving me my credit as the creator some seriously creative snark, or you're honestly okay with making it look like you got bested by a teenager.
HA! Do you seriously think I am bothered by your posts, Shanna? I always consider the source and never take such personally. Your posts indicate you have no clue what has happened here over the last 4 years and so I don't take what you say seriously at all. You are like a gnat buzzing around my ear and nothing more. Peace!
No, I don't think that at all as I never intended them to seriously offend. I'm just having a blast in general right now and I would hate to have a monopoly on all the fun around here. I was enjoying your witty comebacks, but despite your protests, it would appear that you seem to have to taken some of my comments far too seriously, enough to assume they were meant with any real malice. Unfortunate....
Keep buzzing! (Although admittedly, gnat is a weaker alternative to "little girl". C'mon Randy, I know you've got more creativity in there than that!)
Actually, on this one, I don't believe many twenty two year olds have the life wisdom that a forty four year old has. Having a college degree doesn't give one life wisdom - nor does owning things.
Hey, Guys - it's sad to see people we love and respect hitting below the belt and getting into a mud fight.
Randy's original question has some good points to it. Can we stick to that without the personal bashing laced all through this thread?
Wow. Just wow.
I don't think I've ever seen a more ridiculous post, or a funnier one in a sad sort of way. It actually made me laugh that anyone could make such a post.
If you want yours and Randy's issues to remain between you and Randy then keep them out of a public forum.
Shanna. I could assert you have ruined any sort of bargaining power by being a member of Simone's "team" using your logic. Notice how many of her "mentees" have defended her here? Coincidence, or not?
Dude, Simone wasn't even my mentor in the AP program, nor was I on any 'team' of hers. The only real correspondence I've ever had with Simone was "Yes, I like this aspect of the AP program." or "This could use work". (and that was one time, mind you-- in the company of several other apprentices). It wasn't "Let me kiss the ground you walk on." Strike one.
People here like and defend Simone because she's a nice person in the forums. People have always seen her being friendly, respectful and polite. People gang up on you because they only see you in the forums as mean and rude and unwillingly to be rational.
You need a good PR agent or something.
Me, neither. We are both, however, "pets" of HP as defined by Randy, as is anyone else not jumping on the bandwagon to blame HP for google's actions.
You misunderstand, Wilderness.
The term 'pets' has been used to describe hubbers who are given seemingly preferential treatment on HP. Instant featuring is the most obvious one that springs to mind.
This has nothing to do with Google, or jumping on bandwagons.
Sorry, Izzy. I understand that about "pets" and just assumed that the language about Simone's "team" and "mentees" was in the same category. A "seemingly" (your term) preferential treatment that is 99% in the mind but is sufficient to degrade the veracity or opinion of others.
So are you saying Simone isn't connected to the AP program? Doesn't have anything to do with it at all? Who picks the HOTD with the majority of hubs being written by APs? So who are these highly experienced writers who are mentoring the program? You know, those who have proven they can teach you guys the ropes and guarantee success on the net? There has to be some sort graph showing the success rate of those who have taken the course and certainly something showing the program keeps you hubs from going into idle, yes? How about a comparison of hubs between those not in the program and the great difference between the success of those who are? Anything at all? Or have you actually checked this out for yourself?
Do you always simply believe what you are told, or perhaps you do not care?
No, I'm just saying that I'm not some personal pet of Simone's, and therefore my opinions and experiences shouldn't simply be disregarded. I have many hubs that have been idled. I've had months where I didn't reach a pay out because my traffic shriveled up. I'm not some pet of the Gods upon which blessings have been bestowed just because I completed the AP.
You've made my point for me, Shanna! So apparently the AP course hasn't helped you very much at all.
No, it was helpful. I was a newbie and had no clue how to write on the internet. It clarified a few concepts for me and forced me to create content. That was all. It didn't give me magic money-earning powers. It just guided me through topics like "What are keywords" and "How to credit images properly"
Yes, I suspected as much, Shanna. Some of us can get our own hubs idled without the extra training or being paid for them to be idled.
Just give up hon, he will twist your words and try to make you ashamed of the hard work you put in on the program. I've seen it with a wonderful and talented hubber that went through the program and is now ashamed that she is associated.
It actually hurts me to see all her hard work shat upon and something she should take pride in twisted into some badge of shame.
He's gonna think what he thinks. Let him stew in it. You don't have to explain yourself to anyone.
While your words are 100% true and useful, I don't think this one is in need of them.
I do believe that she is quite competent to differentiate between honest constructive criticism and the spewing of nonsense and anger. Nor will she allow the latter have any affect on her self esteem.
Besides you're ruining a show that has considerable entertainment value. Watching Shanna's "snark" take down that nonsense and trample it into a pile of poo is the funniest thing I've seen all week.
Except that I wasn't writing for just her. There is one person I think is getting a truly raw deal out of all this and I was hoping she'd read it too.
I agree Shanna has quite a bit of steel in her.
I think my parents would say I have too much....
But thank you both for the compliments. I agree with you Melissa. I feel terribly for those who are nothing but sweet and kind all the time and get abused.I shall do my best to redirect all the anger onto me to spare them. I'm just selfless like that. I can't deny it any longer.
I'm not sure if you're aiming that at me, but please don't mistake a desire to see civilized behavior on a site where we're supposed to be professionals as a lack of steel or backbone. It truly concerns me to see that treatment here. Newbies were under attack when I first joined, and I didn't care for it then. It only escalated when the AP was rolled out. I just don't feel it reflects well on our site, on the culture here, or on our ability to attract new and talented writers.
Just think of how valuable this forum would be if this type of bashing (even 'for fun') was eliminated? I've heard many people say they avoid the forums because of the harshness. Is that really what people want here?
For the record - I stopped my dad's funeral and made the minister shut up and sit down. But I only pull out those guns in the worst of situations. Everyone here is capable of being respectful (even supportive and caring). I miss seeing that side of folks at times.
Nope, you have plenty of steel So does the other person, in fact. But sometimes we have blindspots for the actions of those we are fond of.
I don't have a problem with debate or even the occasional argument, but people are really in danger of getting hurt. That's not cool.
Hey, don't hate on them just because they laughed at something I said and you aren't particularly fond of me. Not cool man, not cool.
Randy - several of us were quite new when invited to the AP.but were decent and productive writers. In many cases, had we not learned keyword research, how to do good titles, attributing photos properly, etc., we would have published hubs that had those issues, without a way to learn the ropes.
What were we supposed to do? Turn down the offer to learn those things? The AP was not, and is not, a magic bullet for getting traffic, or a free pass for special treatment (whatever that might be?). We weren't here during Panda, etc. - so we have no context for that horror show (we can only imagine the stress it was). Just because we were put in a program we didn't create, and we are newer than the longtime veterans here, we are slammed as a group?
Quite honestly, had I known that being in the AP would have been a ticket to mass abuse here, I'd have said no. It hasn't been worth the personal attacks I've had, or I've seen heaped on others, to have been through the program and be labeled with the blasted aa badge.
If the goal of people who bash those who have been through the AP has been to make us feel unwanted here - it worked.
I think that latest hubs doesn't mean that said hub is visible to Google, all my hubs go into latest hubs, and everybody else's as well (I think, I see plenty of recently published ones by everybody I follow). Or do you mean is a hub with dofollow in less than 24h? Did it have ads?
I also think that Simone was away, remember reading that on a forum or another. So your answer may take a while longer.
Now I am back to my popcorn. Hope you get the answers you need asap before this threat wanders so offtopic an answer can't be found.
I have come out of my darken hole of mourning to show my presence. Like past changes, I have sat back and waited for the cream to rise to the top. Only in the past few weeks have I noticed that although I may be posting comments and sharing hubs, while time allows, I haven't published anything in a year. Not because I didn't think about it, didn't have time, or didn't want to, but because I am waiting to see when the next change is. I am lazy at times and don't like to constantly redo my work.
This morning I awoke to a person posting a message that one of my images was stolen for commercial purposes. After reading this thread, I went in search of the hub mentioned, but couldn't find it yet. This is discouraging for those of us that are trying to produce great quality hubs only to jump through hoops and have our content copied. I understand, even though sometimes I don't always agree, that HP is trying to prefect this site. When I started here, it was one of the most friendly and encouraging places I had been. I still enjoy many of the people here, but am unsure now what direction the site is going...commercial or creative writing?
There are many times that I wished Google would leave well enough alone and focus on charging those that are stealing content. Until then, I am still going to patiently sit back and wait to see what the next change is.
You have posted an intriguing question here.
Randy asked a straight forward question, so what he needs is a reasonable answer.
Might not be what he wants to hear, but not getting a straight answer from HP staff is something that has annoyed a lot of the hubbers who are currently not best pleased with the way things have gone down around here.
A bit more transparency, treating all hubbers equally and straight answers from staff would pour a lot of much needed oil across the waters
The problem is if it IS a glitch, and that IS the answer then it won't be considered a "straight" answer.
I'm not sure what would be considered an honest answer when an honest answer is considered spinning. She would have to be dishonest in that case and make up something to satisfy those who are searching for blood.
If it is a glitch it is a well known one, Melissa. Are you suggesting the techs haven't noticed it for a long time, or are too slow to address it? How do others of us notice it when the techs don't seem to. And you have no idea it is a glitch at all, do you?
A well known one? Really? Every time a bad hub slips through it is caused by the same line of bad code? While all the time the system is changed and re-written?
You don't actually have any idea whether it is well known or not, do you?
I can only go by the many hubs I notice on the "latest hubs", Wilderness. So unless the techs are not checking the veracity of their own work, then I suppose they aren't aware of it. Didn't you question my statement about the new hubbers copied instantly featured hub last night and admitted I was correct about it being featured? Do you think I'm merely making this stuff up? If so, what is my motive?
All I can say is, I could have sworn that various other people have suggested that HP put in a filter to prevent duplicate content from even being published. IIRC, they were all ignored.
If anyone can come up with evidence to the contrary, then please tell me.
It takes money, time and development.....with a limited staff and diminished revenue I highly doubt this would be a priority at the moment.
Squidoo does it... Wizzley does it.... I don't think it can be all that hard. And being automated, a duplicate filter would surely be a lot cheaper than paying Mturk freelancers to rate hubs using what I understand is an extremely complex rating metric (as opposed to "leave published" or "unpublish", which would make far more sense to me).
Are you sure Squidoo does it? Guess I learn something new every day. Wizzley I believe has editors to go through every article don't they?
I'm not saying they shouldn't - they've just prioritized their use of money to 'try' and improve quality. Again I'm not saying that is the best way to use their money - just pointing out the way a business works especially with limited funds. And not all business make the right decisions on how to spend money!
They do both do it. I moved one of my hubs to Squidoo and failed to wait until it had cleared Google's cache. I almost straight away got an automated email to say my lens was "locked" until I could prove it wasn't duplicate. I had to email them and tell them I'd used Webmaster tools to deindex it. A week or so later, Squidoo allowed it to be published.
Same with Wizzley - I got an automated message straight away.
I'm saying that if you've got limited funds, you should adopt a "where can I do most good by saving the most money?" approach. By which I mean use automated filters to catch duplicates, hubs with little or no text, hubs not written in English etc. And put the hubscore system to use for once - find all the hubs with the lowest scores (say, below 40) and look at those. That's where all the real crap will be.
Start with the real crap. The rest should come later.
I've done the same with Hubs and not received the duplication error on Squidoo?! Perhaps I got lucky with the hub being non-index and disappearing on Google.
I agree with what your saying - but we're not in charge - HP have their reasons for their priorities....may not seem sensible to us, but we never know the overal long term strategy etc..
How much money do you suppose they would be losing if they don't bother to fix this issue? Would it really be significant? Would a large enough number of users leave the site, causing some monetary impact? I doubt it. This issue probably isn't worth the time. It's like waiting in the customer service line for 30 minutes because the cashier forgot to ring up your $1-off coupon.
As far as using funds to catch duplication, I'd rather HP check my hubs weekly and tell me when one is copied. Selfish, I know, but it would be of more value to me personally than stopping new copied content.
Not going to happen, and I'm OK with that, but it does show that there are valid alternative uses and problems to be solved.
I suggested a while back (to Simone) that they create a category for Subscribers here, and convert all the empty profiles (no hubs, etc) to that status. Most of those are the profiles with scores of 5 or something ridiculous. New members could sign up as Subscribers and request to convert to Writer status when they publish their first hub. The hub would get vetted, and then be published.
My personal thought is that the 'open gate' system, where anyone can join and immediately publish, is a huge problem. After thinking about it, my guess is that they (maybe) would need a huge software change to revise that. And those are really hard to do, as well as expensive. So they created a filter on the backend, rather than on the front end. But as with anything like that, it's hard to have a perfect system.
Probably everything that's been done here had been done by adjusting, updating, tweaking and redoing the original system HP started out with. We have no way of knowing the limitations of it, or the intricacies of what it would take to do all the things we suggest. Swapping out the original system (which may have been done at some point over the years) would be hugely expensive and tricky. So, no matter what HP might want to do, they only have a set number of tools and resources to do it.
I'm pretty sure Squidoo does, and their filter is on steroids! I had a lens unpublished because I copied a sentence with a product description from Amazon! I've also read a lot of other people's comments complaining about the same thing.
I think "giant squids" are exempted from these checks though. I also believe the freelance writing place Zerys, uses copyscape, or makes it available to buyers, so they can make sure the content they are buying is not copied. My feeling is it is not that expensive or hard to implement (although being too strict produces its own problems).
This is something that worries me with HPs idling and QAP policies, which I broadly support actually, and don't expect to be completely perfect, is that they don't seem to be making a lot of use of automatic filters etc. How come really short (non-poetry) hubs seem to be coming through?
This could have a financial advantage that less hubs would be submitted to the QAP. Surely automatic filters have to be cheaper than checking by humans? Another way of saving money and speeding the process up, which has been suggested on multiple occasions, is to have "trusted writers", with clear fairly used rules, who bypass the QAP. It is pretty unlikely that you, or many of the people who posted on the forums, are suddenly going to start publishing spam. I am not sure it is the best use of limited resources, to have every hub that you publish or edit take up space on the QAP queue. It wouldn't be an issue if resources were unlimited and the site was being efficiently cleansed of the really bad stuff that is presumably causing a Google penalty, but I don't think it is happening.
I think "giant squids" are exempted from these checks though. [Ahhh I once was a Giant Squid - I guess I seem to be still benefiting from that accolade - my bad!]
Another way of saving money and speeding the process up, which has been suggested on multiple occasions, is to have "trusted writers", with clear fairly used rules, who bypass the QAP. (I just came up with an idea which would rate authors based on their QAP scores for the last 90 days - constantly good writers would by-pass the waiting period - I still feel that all hubs should go through a QAP process.
It is pretty unlikely that you, or many of the people who posted on the forums, are suddenly going to start publishing spam. (This is where my idea would work too - great authors are likely always to be great authors - poor authors will have to improve to gain the benefits of being a great author)
I am not sure it is the best use of limited resources, to have every hub that you publish or edit take up space on the QAP queue. (We can agree on that - but it's not our decision....)
"Another way of saving money and speeding the process up, which has been suggested on multiple occasions, is to have "trusted writers", with clear fairly used rules, who bypass the QAP."
Look back through just this thread and count the number of times that someone has referred to "pets", "favorites" or some other derogatory term for just such a plan. Now consider that Derek has commented that not a single hubber that has failed the QAP for quality reasons has agreed with the assessment.
While it should work on paper (or better yet, Simey's proposal) it will also raise a can of worms that makes this thread look like a sunday school picnic.
You have a point, but do you think the shouting at HP could get much worse than we already have (maybe it could and I am just lacking imagination).
I think rules like: you have 30 featured hubs, your last 10 articles passed QAP without a problem, you've published here for at least 6 months, you don't go through QAP, would cause a lot less resentment than having a member of 14 hours bypass the system, while Randy's hub is stuck.
I would like to see the outcry that makes this thread look like a sunday school picnic. I mean what is the worst thing that people can do?
I could and would support such a system as workable. Until a glitch produced another piece of garbage, which will happen. Someone will figure out how to game the system, someone will make an innocent change in the code, something new will come along the pike and it will happen. Whereupon the individual is a "pet", "favored" and the rest of us are once more garbage in HP's eyes.
Still, I like it given that it can be done without undue cost.
I tried to publish a hub recently that had duplicate content in it (I wrote the original article and forgot to delist it before moving it to HP) and it prevented the hub from being published until I addressed it.
http:// www.bestarticle.org/what-is-the-best-pl … s-can-get/
Compare and contrast! (Links are broken deliberately.)
Not saying you're telling porkies, but if HP has a duplicate filter, then it obviously isn't 100% effective. Or some hubbers get an automatic "pass" no matter what.
When I was in the AP I had quite a few hubs flagged and unpublished for duplication. They were all Excel Hubs and explained how to create different types of graphs. As a lot of the text was similar then they were flagged. There 'was' some type of duplication checking going on, but perhaps this was only checking against internal hubs?
I suspect HP have trimmed down some of these programs as they cost money.....
I'm just reporting on what happened to me, I have no reason to not tell the truth. Simey, the duplication warning I had was against content posted on an external site (my own blog). I understand if the algorithm isn't 100% effective, but it did work on my content.
I do think that HP checks for duplication, but on some basis that does not include every hub. Otherwise we wouldn't see the indication on our stats page.
Whether they should concentrate on new hubs or old is problematical; I hate to see new, copied, material, but it would certainly be advantageous to have all my hubs checked weekly or so. I've filed nearly 30 DMCA's in the past week or so and am perhaps seeing some additional traffic as a result - it would be nice if HP could tell me each time it happens.
Google will tell you, just set up an alert. Use a small typo, double period or such. Works well.
Explain?? That sounds really good, but I haven't a clue how to do it. Google will look for a double period all over the web and report it whenever it finds it? (or something like that, anyway).
Certainly they have the capability, and have stated an intent to address duplication - can and will they really do it?
You can put a nonsense phrase or word in a non-obvious place on your hub (like at the very end, right below your name and the copyright symbol). Like, IDK... pangalacticgargleblastersforthewin! or something. If you had your own site, you'd be able to add suitable code to ensure that the nonsense word was white and therefore invisible to the reader.
pangalacticgargleblasters - now there's a worthy drink!
I get that part, but how do I tell G to keep a watch for it throughout the web, though? And then report it to me when it finds it?
You would have to do that yourself - just type pangalacticgargleblastersforthewin! into Google every week or so.
Or use this form - http://www.google.com/alerts - and Google will email you are let you know if your unique term pops up anywhere.
Gotcha. Pretty much the same as searching for a snippet of text, just simpler. Or I could add the same text to a dozen hubs (adding it to all of them would produce 180 results) and scan the results. Or can I eliminate anything from HP from the search results, maybe?
That wouldn't catch thieves taking just a couple of paragraphs or a text capsule, but it would certainly help.
You can use Google Alerts to find out if your content might have been copied.
Just go to Google alerts page and follow the prompts.
for "search query" you can use your article title, or a sentence of text unique to that article - then whenever Google finds that text anywhere on the net it will send you an alert with a link to its location.
Note that it only alerts you to new occurrences, so after you create the alert it will send you an alert about you HP article, and then you won't get anymore alerts until a new source shows up.
hope this helps
For what it's worth (which is not much of anything) if you look at the Hub in question and its duplicate on the blog, it appears that they were both published on the same day. It very well could have been published here first and then posted on the blog awhile later?
Don't try to be reasonable here, ktrapp. You will be accused of being a cheerleader, part of a team, a pet, or somehow unworthy of expressing an opinion.
Let's see... I think I fit into all of those categories!
Not worthy due to my age and religion, a pet of HP of course, part of the AP team and I've definitely been called a cheerleader. What a shame.
That really made me laugh.
Regarding latest Hubs which you asked about earlier, I don't believe there is an active link on any of the pages to it any longer. But you still can access it by going to: http://hubpages.com/hubs/latest/
but, that is a very good point! Even if the blog was published first, it probably wasn't indexed by the time the hub was published, so wouldn't have been caught by the filters.
This is a different discussion though - way back on page 1 - somewhere in the hazy past Randy actually was concerned about why this hub was featured quicker than one of his - he's been a member for three years, the author of the hub a member for 30 hours.
Take out all the arguing, ranting, raving etc (from multiple people including me at some point) - then the question remains the true focus of this forum post!
Cool, now explain how a newbie of only 14 hours has their hub instantly published while others of us have to wait up to 24 hours if the system works correctly. This is the main point of the thread, KTrapp
I don't know if anyone has answered this, but when I saw the hub and the blog post - there was a 2 day difference, the blog post coming first.
Wow, 12 pages in the past day?
Does anybody know if Simone even answered this? Not about to sift through 12 pages.
No, she hasn't. But the board was posted on a Sunday night and today is a holiday, so it would be silly if Randy was expecting an answer within 24 hours.
Oh, shoot. I forgot that it's a holiday. Wonder if HP observes it?
President's Day is a national holiday, so I would think so.
Hey - I work in corporate America and I don't get the day off - shhh I should be working not posting on the forum!
I've never had it off, either, which is why I always forget it. Banks and govt., that's all I know that take it off.
Yeah...me too... At least there was no traffic today
Nope, she hasn't answered it. I think she's away till tomorrow, so I wouldn't expect an answer till then at least.
Many of the pages are filled with the most amusing insults and sarcastic remarks though, if you're into that kind of thing.
It was like a phenomenon yesterday. The first 10 pages took roughly 5 hrs. I can imagine the surprise for Simone.
She's going to start leaving us with babysitters over the weekends...
Somebody go find those pills from last night. My head hurts.
Here's my contribution.
Back when the Google problems hit it was blatantly clear to me.. anyone... that HP was being overrun by spammers, copiers and morons. The poor content outweighed the good by 10 to 1.
My suggestion was to stop new garbage entering the site. It could have been achieved in a variety of ways - simply and effectively.
This suggestion was ignored and Jason who was an HP employee at the time went out of his way to rubbish it.
Fair enough. It's 'their' site.
For the most part I just get on with it now. I have no problem with my idled hubs - they were mostly garbage anyway. I want to just create the best content I can and try to make some money out of it.
I have to agree with Randy though. It is absolutely ridiculous that someone, and there are many, who have proved themselves not to be moronic, thieving, copying, spam merchants should be held back while the same old problem continues.
Acquire fake ID, copy someone's work, post it on HP. Repeat until caught and then start all over again.
Seems pretty obvious to me where the main problem lies. SHUT the door - THEN start tidying.
For the record - I like HP. That's why I am still here.
Let's all agree that Shanna is a nice person who writes fairly well, shall we?
Randy is also a nice person who writes well. Plus, I think he's funny
I am making an effort to stop the douchebaggery, by stopping the douchebaggery of my posts.
Eh. I'm only sometimes nice. But ONLY FAIRLY WELL? When I publish my first book I'll leave you a note at the end. "To Kathleen who only thought I wrote fairly well."
Truth be told, I think Randy is an adorable, but prickly old pear. He's definitely fun to spar with. It also helps that I don't hold grudges and I only get snarky because I love witty comebacks.
@Mary Goodfleisch...You have always been so kind and helpful since I joined HP seven months ago. It is people like you that have kept me here. I have considered applying for the AP because I don't have a clue how to do keyword research and this is my first time writing online. I'm impressed with those that were able to get through the program because it is a big commitment and requires excellent writing ability. Please don't waste your time on those few that choose to be unkind.Writers should be capable of an academic discussion without personally attacking anyone. I think the majority respect those that have completed the AP.
Thanks, HealthyLife - I appreciate your kind words. I am thankful for what I learned from the AP experience, and I'd encourage anyone to go after the learning opportunity. Also, much (maybe most, or all) of the information in the program is in the learning center. The AP just helps guide you through the learning in a logical way, and gives you extra sets of eyes to see how you're doing.
Thanks for your help Mary! I need to take about a week and spend some time in the learning center. I haven't been there in quite a while. At the beginning I was just trying to learn the basics so it was overwhelming but I think now it will be a little easier to process information or at least I hope.
Has anybody noticed that we've had an official response???!!!! Of sorts?
If that is how it works - as per the official post then is there is a glitch as I can see a hub published 15 mins.ago.
Or have I misunderstood something?
Randy, I do think your original question is legitimate and I hope you get a response to it.
However, I really do feel compelled to speak my mind about the turn this forum and others have taken lately. None of this is directed at anyone specifically and is probably a bit of a lecture on my part. Read it or ignore it; it doesn't matter to me.
For numerous years I worked as a web designer, typing each and every line of code by hand, no Wordpress etc. or any other tool available today to do the heavy lifting for me. I programmed websites to read and write to databases and put together some really decent websites back in the day. What I did on my own doesn't compare to what HubPages has put together! Because of my experience on the back end of sites, I have a real appreciation for this front end tool HP has put together for us to use. The complexities of adding to and editing a seven year old site trying to keep up with ever-changing Internet expectations are just that, complex.
And while there are many valid questions about QAP and the idling process, I think a real appreciation and respect for the system that is in place for us to use for a percentage of ad revenue, as well as the people working on it, is being lost. I guess I really don't care if my Hubs are published a few hours later than I would like. In the humungous scheme of things, it does not matter! I guess I don't care if a Hub of mine that is getting close to zero traffic gets idled. In the humungous scheme of things, it does not make a difference! I can choose to blame others or take a look at the three fingers pointing back at me and get to work fixing my shortcomings. I choose to do the latter - it usually pays off.
The fact of the matter is, the Internet and the technologies to access it are always changing. That means if you're going to use it, either as a contributor or as a surfer, it's up to you to keep up with the latest ways of doing things. I'm honestly tired of people blaming HP or Google for their traffic issues. Google may change their algorithms from time-to-time, but they have never changed their goal of attempting to provide the best search results. HP tries to offer guidance as best they can on what Google expects, because our success is their success. But they cannot guarantee what we write or the title we use will work. In the end, that is all up to us.
I guess I'm just rambling on and on, but I just think a lot of people are losing sight of the fact that this is a really sophisticated system we are using. If we fail, then HubPages fails. So why on Earth would they do anything that is not in our best interest?
I bought this up earlier in the thread - I have coding that has been established for three or four years on an internal website - and yet I am still finding bugs today - it's the nature of the beast....
..it's not necessarily what is happening here though!!!
Well, I guess I missed that earlier in this 20-page thread, but I wasn't talking about bugs - at all. You lost me there.
I didn't explain myself properly - I understand the nature and complexity of the evolving coding requirements of the web - just the changes to standardize things have been mega complex recently - so bugs will crop up - and with the amount of coding required they may not appear for years - or are very difficult to isolate.
So where do you get the inside information from to back your claims of HP doing the responsible thing. Ktrapp? And where was these responsible people when we warned them Google was going to penalize HP for all of the junk still on the site today? It sounds as if you are merely guessing but I'm sure you would not do this on this thread, would you?
So you must have an inside track to info others of us aren't privy to in this case. So I may be better off asking you questions rather than Simone? Good to know!
I don't see how my asking her how she knows so much about the inside goings-on is in any way offensive, Marisa. She made the statement without being prodded, did she not?
I just got back here after reading another post accusing you of hostility and condescension. I'm just sayin', I can see what they mean.
I'm reading this thread and I'm seeing some posters trying to take a more even-handed view. Instead of pointing out where they 're wrong and why, you jump down their throats. I think you need to step back for a minute and consider that they might not be paid lackeys of HubPages. They may just be nice people, who think it's important to look at both sides of a question.
You're angry at HubPages. That's fine and justified. Don't take it out on other people, it doesn't do you credit.
I'll take your advice for what it's worth, Marisa.
See what I mean? You mean that sarcastically, I'm sure. Proved my point. And KTrapp was not claiming to know the inside workings of HP - she was using the analogy of her own experience to say that she could appreciate the difficulties of running a large site.
Thanks for having my back, Marisa. And thanks for "getting" my analogy. It takes a lot to ruffle my feathers so I can see that Randy and others are clearly upset so I guess my long-winded analogy was like pouring fuel on the fire.
Anything that isn't "hp sux" is going to piss them off. I wouldn't sweat it too much.
Unfortunately I think that's true, and I wish they would realize it doesn't help.
I deplore the idling system. I especially deplore the 1984-speak that led to them changing the terminology, so we're not supposed to say idled now, we're supposed to say it's "normal". HubPages staff say that's so as not to discourage the mass of Hubbers who aren't worried about making money, so they don't think there's "something wrong" with idled Hubs. I just think it's dishonest.
HubPages has admitted (I think it was Derek) that low traffic Hubs don't harm HubPages, that's not why they're idling them. They've admitted the current method of idling Hubs causes a lot of collateral damage (i.e. good Hubs being idled), but it's the only way they can think of to tackle poor quality Hubs. Madness, if you ask me.
But to all those being sarcastic and hostile - do you really think abuse is going to help that situation? How's about some constructive criticism? If they can't think of another way to deal with it, how about some helpful suggestions?
If you really think HubPages is so crooked that they're doing all this deliberately, what are you hoping to achieve with this discussion?
I think you err in the assumption that the purpose of the OP of the thread was to help correct a problem. Or even to answer the question of why it is not a personal insult to the OP. It is neither.
This forum discussion that started 14 hours ago is on Page 22. Wow! This topic has struck a nerve amonst many Hubbers!
Although I'm not sure if this will affect the 24 hour delay policy, Simone did tell me recently in these forums that their top priority right now is to work out a new way of idling hubs (newspeak: unFeatured hubs), so the NOINDEX tag is not slapped on a hub out of the blue. Some sort of warning system is being contemplated by HubPages. I don't like the idle/unFeatured hub policy, because it is now clear that it is driven by low traffic, rather than by poor quality, so it's not really doing much to improve the quality of hubs, but is certainly annoying the hell out of a lot of Hubbers. I could live with it, if they at least provided a warning of a week or longer that a hub is nearing the unFeatured criteria. Getting the NOINDEX tag is a bad thing with Google, long after HubPages removes it. It would be best to avoid it altogether by having time to update a hub that is close to being unFeatured.
Should I automatically take your advice, Marisa? Do I have a choice in the matter? You voluntarily injected yourself into this thread with no encouragement from myself or anyone else. Where do you get off playing policeman for this thread? I mean really? Who do you think you are?
Again, you're proving my point. The purpose of my original post was to give you a gentle nudge in the ribs, because I felt you were letting your natural anger at HubPages overflow. You are a nice guy and it pains me to see you being nasty to people who don't deserve it - it's only going to make enemies of perfectly reasonable people.
Your response has been to be equally sarcastic to me. Of course you don't have to take my advice, but you don't have to reject it in a nasty, supercilious fashion. You can just ignore it, or say you disagree with me.
A gentle nudge my asp! Just go away, Marisa, I don't need advice from you on how I should act. I would not dare to admonish you in such a manner. Please give me the same privilege.
OK, but don't blame me if other Hubbers start thinking of you as a bitter and twisted curmudgeon, because that's how you're coming across in this forum. I know you're not like that and it's a shame.
Also, if you're trying to persuade other Hubbers that your concerns are justified, being nasty to them is only going to have the opposite effect.
Why should I blame anything on you, Marisa? I never asked for your input or thoughts in the first place, did I? Or those from anyone else either, for that matter. My OP was to Simone and no one else. It seems some could not wait to get in a few punches though. You know I will defend myself as usual. I'm sure most know that before ever entering the ring, and that goes for you too. Can't stand the heat, then get out of the Kitchen..........
Ah, I see - that's where I'm making a fundamental mistake, obviously. I didn't think this was a boxing ring. I thought it was a civilised forum, where everyone is allowed to express their opinion.
You have every right to don your boxing gloves and come out swinging at HubPages. But you're not in the ring yet - your opponent hasn't arrived. What you're doing is punching every person who comes along and dares to disagree with you, even when they do it politely and reasonably. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are criticising you.
If your goal is to win support for your case against HubPages, or to convince other Hubbers to stand with you, then you're going the wrong way about it.
Now you are doing it again, Marisa. So now you claim not to recognize a metaphorical phrase? You actually thought I believed this was a real boxing match? And yes, everyone is allowed to express their opinion here. But that also includes myself. You also don't have to read me my rights. Yes, everyone has been sweet as pie to me and I've treated them like dirt. And there again you are telling me how I should act. Are you like Melissa and trained in analysis so you can lecture me in such a manner? I think not! And believe me, you are not perfect enough to be lecturing anyone about anything. Or are you?
If you use a boxing ring as a metaphor then that means you're equating the forum with a fight of some kind. If you compare the forum to a boxing ring then you're bringing a pugilistic attitude to the debate. That's what metaphorical means.
If I read the thread, the "sweet as pie" comment isn't far off the mark. Someone expresses a perfectly reasonable view, you jump down their throats on the assumption they're a HubPages toadie, and they (not unnaturally) bite back. And it spirals downwards from there. Just as our discussion is doing. Of course I'm not perfect - but neither are you.
I'm done here.
Seriously, did you mean to respond to me or someone else, because I didn't say anything about the inside goings-on? It's OK though; I'm just sorry you and others seem so upset about all this.
You might want to re-read my post because I never once discussed responsibility or doing the responsible thing.
But now that you bring it up, I think the brunt of the responsibility for our success or failure, in terms of getting traffic, has more to do with us as individual content providers than it does HP as a whole. If we did not have sub-domains I may feel differently, but that isn't the case.
Clearly there are some objectionable sub-domains and low quality writing/grammar around, but none of that appears to have impacted MY sub-domain. I don't like that it exists, but I really don't feel that it is bringing HP down as a whole. That statement is based on MY experience here. I have 60 something Hubs, earn regularly, and have well over 200K page views in my 19 months here, in case you need some facts to understand why I don't feel that my sub-domain is being punished.
Maybe Google is punishing HP for some of the gunk that exists, I really can't claim to know one way or another for FACT and neither can you.
I don't claim to have any "inside track" or anything like that. I have many years of experience with web design and SEO and I was lucky to have that knowledge when I came here. I read a lot about these things outside of HP and have for many, many years. Google's official blog offers up great information that I attempt to put to good use, here and other places. All I can do is impact my own sub-domain, help others if they ask for it, and hope that HP is working their hardest to keep their site favorable in the eyes of Google. I have no reason to doubt that they would try to shoot themselves in their own foot.
I believe there is a problem with HP's clocks - I've been on and off this site all day and I could swear that one of the hubs showing up having been published very recently has been visible all day on my feed - therefore was published over 8 hours ago - I may be wrong and going senile....
...even on my feed it is showing as being published 2 hours earlier than the 'latest' list shows...
Congratulations everyone, Shanna especially. Summerberrie has been banned from the forums. Funny how some get banned for insulting others while others do not. Hmmmm! Nothing new there!
Dude, I didn't report anyone and it wasn't my goal to see her banned. I'm sorry to hear she's been banned, but I am in no way responsible for the things she chose to say. I am only responsible for myself. Don't blame me.
Oh I won't, Shanna. Unless you don't get banned yourself, that is. If you don't, then there is clearly a double standard at play here. Let's wait and see, shall we?
When people get banned it is because of their own actions. Some people can't accept that and choose to blame others though.
What she said was mild compared to what you said. You later backtracked a little and said you were jesting. You openly admitted that you were trying to wind several hubbers up, so that you get could some 'narky' comments in, 'all in good fun' of course.
You are fooling no-one.
You personally managed to side-line a perfectly relevant query by going off-topic, which is frowned upon by most well-run forums.
It really is one rule for one, and a different rule for others on this site. Personal attacks are still personal attacks even if said to get a reaction.
You are responsible for SB getting banned. Endof.
You might be right that both deserve to be banned...maybe But you are not correct in saying that SB got banned because of Shanna. No one held a gun to SB's head.
Two separate issues.
Blimey. This place really reminds me of Etsy.
Why are you seemingly implying that someone in this thread reported summerberrie? This thread is specifically directed at HP staff, meaning that you hope someone from the staff will read it. And if /when they do, and if/when they feel that any Hubber has crossed a line, should they look the other way?
I for one am very sorry summerberrie was banned. I don't think she was the one deserving the ban, but as you said, I still have a lot of skills to work on.
No, not try, but accidentally shooting oneself in the foot is entirely possible. I had over 500,000 views over a year and a half ago on 70 articles. Now over 100--once 120--and I've only 600,000 views now. If you go through what many of us have you will certainly change your tune. I promise! I hope you don't experience what we have though!
That's very understandable. There definitely was a change post-Panda and I joined here post, just as sub-domains were being created. So it's easy to see where your frustration comes from. One thing I've noticed is that CPMs are much lower now than when I first started (probably about 33% of what I used to see). I'm sure you've noted that as well. I hope things go the way you want them to again soon.
I thought you were telling me how things were done at HP? No? I suppose you were talking about your own site then. Sorry!
Hello. Sorry it took me so long to respond. I've been on the road going on vacation with my family. Phones don't work that well in the mountains.
I want to clear a up a few things.
1. New Hubbers go through the QAP. With Paul Deeds help we think we see the Hub Randy referred to titled - What Is the Best Plumbing Advice Homeowners Can Get ? Based on our data, the Hubber signed up about 37 hours from the time I'm posting this. The Hub was published at 2013-02-17 03:09:55 and featured at 2013-02-17 15:20:29. So it was a little over 12 hours after it was published that it was featured.
2. Our dupe checker had an operational issue. The Hub in question was a duplicate. So, it has since gone through the dupe checking process and been removed.
3. There are a small number of Hubbers (not new) that get featured immediately. We want to get everyone featured more quickly. Initially we were at 24 hours. The vast majority are at 12 hours now. I believe we can get it down more.
We updated the learning center to help make this more clear. http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/Featured-Hubs.
So if the hub listed on the "latest hubs" says published 31 minutes ago it was only featured 31 minutes ago? When I checked the hubbers time since joined it said 14 hours. Apparently I'm not included in the "vast majority" then Paul, as my latest hub took 22 hours to be featured. So why does a new writer get featured quicker than I do? And what criteria decides who gets published instantly? Thanks!
Thanks for answering the question raised on this very energetic series of posts.
Related to one thing you said - you confirmed what I have heard, that a small number of 'not new' Hubbers have their work approved automatically. I respect the site's authority in making those decisions and determining which writers fall into that group. But can you shed any light on what one can do to reach that status? Thanks!
Thinking back to posts from some time ago, it seems that a few hubbers are being used as test subjects of some kind for additional work on the system. It was those hubbers that were being given a "bye" to the system.
It is thus not a "status" to be achieved, but more along the lines in being an involuntary participant in a beta test, albeit a nice one with no negatives (so far as I have heard, anyway).
At least that what I remember - could be wrong.
I asked about this earlier and IIRC Paul E said they were collecting data on all of us, and once they have enough data collected on a writer, they will use that data to determine whether or not they would allow that person into the group that gets to publish immediately. I don't know if they've collected any data on me or not, or if maybe they've rejected me from ever belonging to that group.
The Bard is a pet! Such irony! Good on him! His stuff is great.
I didn't see that post. The one I refer to was quite a while ago, not long after the system was put into effect. Somebody figured out that a few people didn't have to wait, began screaming about HP's pets and that was the answer. A small group being used as guinea pigs in their efforts to reduce the time necessary.
How does one "scream" on the forums without using caps, Wilderness? I'd be interested to know. Might come in handy someday. Please give me an example.
You've managed quite well without using them. Check your posts here to figure out how.
No, you give me an example, wilderness. You've made a lot of accusations in my direction, mostly to someone else though. So spell it out for me if you can.
How about this:
"How is this not an insult to myself and many other Hubbers who have never had any problem getting published but have to wait up to 24 hours or more now.
I'd like a concise answer and if you don't know, then find the heck out. Ask Paul E. if you don't know This is an outrage for me to have to wait so long when a newbie gets almost instantly published. This is an insult and very disrespectful to many veterans of this site and we deserve better from you guys."
No attempt at civility, just a declaration that it is in insult and a demand to know how it is not an insult without ever knowing if it was even intentional.
No? How about "you after posting my response to the little girl" or " the cheerleaders berate me for asking such a question of their mentor-in-chief"? Language designed to produce coherent and useful answers, right?
Still no good? Then try "This system is a definite failure and whoever designed it should be kicked off the site" or "What problem is it of yours, Melissa? You got a dog in this hunt"
All language whose only meaning is "Randy is mad" and nothing more. Useless for any real discussion, useless to elicit any cooperation and useless to find any solutions to problems perceived or real. Screaming into the night from frustration.
Defining my complaints as "screaming" is your opinion, wilderness. Unfortunately for you, you are not the deciding factor concerning the pitch of my voice. I could just as easily define your posts as "sobbing" if I so desired. It would not make it true in my case either.
But I am pleased you are directing your insults directly to me instead of doing so to others. I can also laugh at them directly now.
Very true. It is my definition and not one I expect you to agree with.
Not sure how quoting your posts is an insult to you, or maybe it is. Either way, OK.
I wasn't referencing your quoting my posts as an insult to me. I referred to those claiming I was screaming and calling everyone pets and favorites. Only some hubbers fit this category, not all of them. If you want to say something about me, say it to my face. I'll certainly do the same.
Oh, I understand that not everyone is a pet or favorite. Just those that have an "A" on their avatar or used to have the "e" (and are not in your group of friends), those few like Cardisa that don't go pending, those that get a HOTD or other contest recognition, and those that "protect" HP by realizing that we live in the real world and operate here under real world rules. Where mistakes happen, where other entities (google) control our destinies and where not every company or employee is innately evil or stupid.
But, Randy, I'm not real interested in exchanging insults with you. I posted solely to let others know that not everyone agrees with your conspiracy theory, that not everyone thinks that a silly rant is the best way to get things done. That some of the people here are actually trying to build a future rather than fragment the site and tear it down out of spite and a perception that they're being persecuted.
So because you have an A on your avatar, you are taking all those little digs personally?
Can't you see that the site is splitting into those that are favored and those that aren't? You seem to forget that many of us were refused onto the A program.
IMO that gives us the right to have gentle digs now and again, especially when some people are allowed instant featuring, and others aren't.
This isn't just a traffic observation. Some of the highest trafficked hubbers have left.
Some team building exercises might be in order here.
We hubbers should stick together as one, and be heard as one voice.
No Izzy, I'm not. While I'm quite well aware that many of those "little digs" are malicious, I'm also aware that they usually aren't aimed at me personally but at HP and their well meaning and effective effort to help people. Even when they are aimed at me personally, I don't care and let them slide off.
Others, though, are having trouble with the constant nastiness and some won't even enter the forums as a result. All because they made a huge effort to improve their online writing. Sad.
You're right, Izzy - the community is splitting in two. Not because HP offered a training session and some took advantage of it, but because a few have chosen that particular action to attack and denigrate anyone doing so. Or anyone winning HOTD or any of the other little recognitions HP hands out. They in no way deserve the vitriol being directed at them - they haven't done anything wrong - but those doing the splitting seem all too pleased when they can hurt someone badly enough to withdraw from the community.
We're being split all right, by a handful of vocal people that take every perceived wrong, true or not, and build it into a skyscraper rather than the molehill it is. Whose every single post is an attack on HP or the people of HP - most if not all who do their very best to make this site successful. Who took a minor clock glitch in some computer code and turned it into 20+ pages of rant and insults. Had Randy simply posted the facts with a comment that there seems to be a glitch in the system this thread would not be here, two people would not be banned and we'd still have an answer. Instead he blew it up into something it never was, claimed he was personally insulted (presumably with malice) and insulted every person that said anything not in agreement with him. And, Izzy, you know this to be true.
Remember me, Izzy? Wilderness? The half-nube, ignorant but willing to spend hours and hours pouring over numbers and reading your (and Randy's) hubs to try and figure out why google slapped you so hard? Trying to help you and anyone else that had been hurt in Panda?
I'm still here, still trying to help both the hubbers and the site. When asked for a review of the AP I gave it, though it wasn't very complimentary and I highly doubt it helped any "favoritism" I might have from HP. I try to give suggestions for site improvement that are (hopefully) financially feasible and workable, not just pie in the sky dreams. I try to help the nubes in their confusion as to how things work here or what works best. I try to be fair in my criticisms of hubbers OR HP. Randy chose a path here of extreme confrontation with not only every hubber on the site but with HP as well and I called him on it; expect nothing else from me.
What about you, Izzy? Are you trying to help the site and the people here or trying to drive the community apart, to segregate it into separate groups throwing insults and accusations at each other? Are you happy in the "secret" little group where 3 out of 4 posts concern the next nefarious deed of HP? Where everything is negative with no positive left?
What secret group are you referring to, wilderness? None of us have anything to hide from you guys. I've never made a secret of my likes and dislikes and have never wanted to be a part of HP's AP program. I've not observed anything which would make me want to in the very least. Especially the big green "A", for example.
If HP didn't learn anything else from the now infamous "elite" thread, they should have observed how those with the "e" banned together to protest how it made no difference in the way they were treated. But we also discovered others thought they were elite writers, the best on the site some thought. So why do you think they even gave you the green "A", wilderness? Is it necessary for you to have this letter at all? What does it stand for and why does it have to be displayed? If you know your stuff does the letter make it better?
I think you know the answer to that, but will you tell us? Is it like a gold star or to indicate your are....what?
I don't think he was talking to you Randy. Was the attention off of you so long you needed to voice your -unasked for- opinion?
I won't tell you anything about the "A", because I don't know anything.
I will tell you this, though, that the large majority (if not all) my group of apprentices did not ask for it and did not want it. I'm one of them - I wish it weren't there and for much the reason you so hate it. It gives the impression that we're better somehow than those that don't have it. We may or may not write better, or more effectively, but that's immaterial - it's the impression that you and a few others have given it that makes it objectionable. That and the snide little digs that you apparently love giving people.
Given that we don't like or want that little letter, why do you attack those that have it? You have to know that not everybody has the skin of a rhinoceros and that your silly names and jibes hurt some people - why do you do it? Why do you go after a nube that got a little recognition for one of their first hubs? Or a HOTD "winner" that actually had a decent hub (and not all of them are!). Why are you so intentionally hurtful to people that have done nothing whatever to you?
The only answer I can conceive of is that you are intentionally dividing the people of HP; that you wish it to fail and that's a small step in that direction. Stupid? Yes - you do have some hubs left and earn at least something from them, but it does appear that way. You're acting a little smarter than all those sock puppets we saw, but the end goal does appear to be the same.
Wilderness is right - my group didn't care about the a thing (I'd have preferred an accolade, if they absolutely had to do something - people don't notice those very often). In the long run, I was glad they didn't go for an AA (to signify the alumni part), and that they didn't make the single 'a' scarlet.
Hi, Marcy. I don't give a hoot about the "a," either. HP staff, if you're reading this, feel free to remove the letter from my avatar. I was invited to join the A program, and I enjoyed it. I didn't ask for it - it was offered, and I accepted the invitation. I don't understand the derision some of us As are receiving. Are we supposed to feel shame for going through the program?
No, Holle. Only those who use it as some sort of authority symbol are derided for it. I've repeatedly stated this in several threads. And I personally don't care because the actions of the person wearing it is more important to me. I think we all can agree the title is very divisive in some cases and it isn't needed at all. So why should others need to know you guys went through the program? Now if all of you guys went through the mentoring and suddenly became wildly successful with mega traffic then I may look at it differently, but this is not the case, is it?
I didn't start this tiff with the APs on this thread, and some APs I consider good friends. But some of them I do not. I can say the same for ordinary Hubbers also. I imagine most of us can.
Hi, RD. My post wasn't really directed at you. It was more of a general post, as I know there has been some resentment expressed about the program.
By the way...Boy! You sure made a heck of a comeback thread in the forums!!
Yes, the cartoon by Mark Ewbie was fairly accurate. The "Look, he's posting again" one. But the forums had gotten so dead they needed a little livening up anyway. I suppose some just like to get their licks in, but they always liked it better with the snake avatar. Made them feel sorta religious or something, I suppose!
But I'll probably go back to hiding in my "secret" place again so everyone will get along again. It's all my fault, I suppose. At least we learned a bit more of what is going on with the publishing glitch. No one else would have dared to ask I imagine.
What happened to Mr.Snake? You didn't sell it to that guy in Lenox, did you?
BTW, I asked Beth this, but she wasn't sure: When you injured your knee in the "jeep flying" incident, what part(s) was/were injured? Didn't you have surgery?
We released the snake into the wild and away from any residences, Holle. I seldom kill them anymore unless they are around a home. They are creatures of habit and tend to hang around the same spots, especially on a farm.
I tore my ACL and it was never fixed properly by Dr. Scott. Later Smith removed the cartilage Scott should have removed in the first operation.
You will probably have yours done by orthoscope. No big deal these days, but a bit of pain still.
I meant your avatar pic!
Yes, my surgery will be done with an arthroscope. I'm sooooo ready to get it done. Dr. Banks is doing it.
I wondered if that was what you were referring to. I decided to try using another photo to see if it was easier to get followers not using a snake. It is, but I'll probably go back to one of the snake photos because people hate it more. Only people who like my writing follow me when I use the snake avatar.
Good luck on the surgery!
Nah, don't blame ALL the forum bickering on yourself. You should have been here during the election!
He attacks it for the same reason he attacked my MTurk wages, repeatedly, he thinks he can hurt you... and others by doing it. Some people feel the need to attacked perceived weakness to make themselves feel better. If they can hurt someone it makes them feel good about themselves. There's a word for that... several actually.
I never felt anything about the A or the E.
Of course it doesn't make me feel inferior that I don't have it.
The more he talks the more his motivations are obvious.
No, if you stop criticizing me then you'll get the same from me, Melissa. Why don't you try it for once? No one asked you to comment on this thread and you had nothing of importance to offer. Am I to take your jibes as a joke while mine are taken seriously? I don't require feeling better nor to be analyzed by the likes of you either.
I could do the same for you and be just as nasty or nastier. What makes you qualified to analyze anyone, and who asked you in the first place? There's a word for you too, you know. Just one, though.
Yes, tell me more, Dr. Barrett. Should I lie down on the sofa? But first, I'd like to see some credentials!
The ball is in your court!
"No one asked you to comment on this thread". You keep saying that. A forum is not a place to have a private conversation. If you post a forum thread, you can't expect people not to participate in it. That's what forums are for - group discussion.
If you do comment on a thread you do know there is always the risk of being called out on what you say. I know this myself but apparently some do not. Do you really expect me to be chagrined by your admonitions? You certainly aren't by mine, apparently.
Randy... once again, I didn't respond to you until you attacked me. I was answering another hubbers question about intentionally bad hubs in the hopper.
Go back and read it.
However you wanted to get froggy, so be it. Don't whine about someone not taking your crap. Don't act like the victim either.
In addition, I'll post wherever the hell I damn well want to.
I calls em like I see's em Randy. I yam what I yam.
I don't particularly care if you bully me, there's not a damn thing I do that I'm not proud of. I'll not be shamed by the likes of YOU for it either. Nor will I stop telling you my opinion and kiss your ass so you'll stop trying to shame me.
I don't need to shame you, Melissa. And I certainly don't want you to kiss my asp, either.
Oh? Then what was the point of the nickle references?
Or the MSTurk references?
How about the age and religion references to Shanna?
You want to share why those were necessary?
Maybe you want to share why it was necessary to tell everyone that didn't agree with you to not post?
And it's good you don't need to shame me Randy, because you don't have that kind of pull.
The same as the point of you trying to put words in my mouth as to what I would say when Simone or someone else finally answered my queries. Are you now claiming innocence of doing so?
You brought up the MTurk process and used it to try and defend the problem I originally asked about. You bragged the other day how you were one of the few who passed the so-called test. You opened the door yourself.
Shanna jumped in with nothing to add but criticism. I pointed out she hadn't been here long enough to know much at all. She then began insulting me I returned it to her in kind. She eventually got banned for insulting others. You stated no one ever got banned who didn't deserve it. How you know this I'm not sure as you haven't been here long enough to observe this personally. Like you know everything else, apparently. However, I jokingly referred to her husbands, but then this is not a religious part of her cult at all.
I've never "told" anyone not to post on this thread, Melissa. I have pointed out that no one "asked" them to post here. I suppose you don't know the difference in the two different wordss. "Told" and "asked" Study up on those words And you are correct, you can only shame yourself.
"You stated no one ever got banned who didn't deserve it. How you know this I'm not sure as you haven't been here long enough to observe this personally."
I found this to be the most interesting part of what you said, how does she know? Hmmmmmmmmm
You know this fascination of yours with me being some kind of undercover agent seems vaguely tin-foilish.
I have no idea what got you started on it but hey good luck with that.
Wow... because by putting words into your mouth I was trying to prove what you were doing to staff. Hmm....
No, I answered a question about the MTurk thing. It had nothing to do with you. Some things don't.
I never bragged about anything. I passed the test and I'm a rater. I do a good job at it and I am proud of any job I do my best at. I tried to answer questions that were asked because I'm actually doing it, not making assumptions about how it is done.
You could always take the test if you like.
I'm not sure that an additional 8 months on me gives you all that much knowledge. I have never seen anyone banned that shouldn't have been. Including myself. If you are going to complain about a ban then you shouldn't have said anything bannable in the first place. Life is full of decisions and consequences that way.
Thank you for the English lesson. I'll place in it the value I consider it worth.
I haven't shamed myself by doing MTurk hits. Like I said, I do a good job at them. I make more than five cents, but you knew that anyway. I make a living and I support my family. There's no shame in that no matter how you try to spin it.
I'm done with you. You aren't worth my time and my only regret is I spent any one you. When you do one constructive thing on this site maybe I'll respect your opinions. As of now, I wouldn't believe you if you said the sky was blue. I used to have respect for you but I don't respect anyone who just tries to tear down the hard work of others.
Go back to your self-imposed ban. That's the only thing productive that you COULD do around here.
Melissa, I've thought about trying MTurk. Would I feel like I was grading essays and research papers again, ya think? Believe it or not, I sorta miss that sometimes.
You would absolutely feel that way
It's interesting reading some of the hubs though. Even the bad ones are kinda good like that.
Do you really miss it? That's one of the reasons I didn't do an education major. I did a stint as a TA for one of my profs and it was really really bad.
Yes, I really do miss it sometimes. I especially miss reading creative writing from high school students. Wow - inside a teenager's head can be a scary place to be! But it can be really fun, too.
LOL, tell me about it. If you want teenagers for a while you can borrow my two. They come with many more teenagers somehow. And girlfriends.... *shudders*
You should read the poetry that my oldest writes... Have you ever read Hitchhikers guide? Yeah, it's like that.
Yep, read the Guide to the Galaxy on the recommendation from one of my students. Pretty fun stuff! Did you love Marvin?
Honestly I liked him more in the movie. Something to do with Snape's (can't remember the actors name) voice was perfect.
My favorite character in the book was actually the potted petunia. One line, but it pretty much summed up my view on life
Alan Rickman is the actor. I think he is one of the finest in the world. His voice is absolutely amazing! He guest starred on an episode of Family Guy once - all you heard was his voice on his answering machine (as himself). It was hilarious!
One of my personal favorites is the whale as well. I feel like the whale sometimes. LOL
Oh, Holle, I loved, loved, loved Marvin.
"I won't enjoy it."
He's like the Eeyore of the robot world.
The original TV series (based on the radio series) was pretty cool! Did you notice that the original Marvin was in the movie?
And it's your job to take up for staff now? Yeah right!
Good advice for yourself, actually.
At last, something you do know about.
No thanks, I have no faith in the process at all.
I'll have been here 4 years in a few days. And there are apparently many things you aren't sure of. And you can claim no one has ever been banned unless they deserved it, but did you know I was accidentally banned and reinstated during the infamous "elite" forum thread? So much for what you do know.
No problem, it will help you out knowing the difference when you do your MTurk stuff I'm sure!
I agree with you on this and I have no problem with it.
i have no need for your respect and never have. And I too regret you spent time on me. In this too we agree.
I am deeply hurt by this. I hope I can get some sleep tonight worrying about how you don't like me. I am depressed.
But you do know something about the "A", Wilderness. You admit to not wanting it on your avatar so you know it is a divisive tag. As I stated earlier, I don't dislike those in the program unless they act as though they have some inside knowledge which they do not. I didn't address any of you in my OP. You took it upon yourself to try and address something you had no knowledge of and wasn't asked about. Why did you think you knew more about the answer than I did? Experience? Inside knowledge? Or what exactly?
I'm sure you and others knew they what they were getting into when they took umbrage to my post and criticized me. You and I have gotten into it before so don't act so innocent now. You had nothing to offer and you and I would not have had words--and that goes for several others also. Either that or you're not as smart as I give you credit for. I expect those like Shanna to get involved, and Melissa also, as she seems to feel everyone needs her words of wisdom lately. But you know where you stand with me, and you also know I'm not going to take any guff. As Popeye sez "I yam what I yam."
You don't want any response from me, then don't call for it. Easy Peasy. And again, what "secret" group are you referiing to?
No, I don't know that it is intrinsically divisive. It could have been a goal to shoot for, like a 100,000 view accolade. Or even a small symbol of pride; it is a tough course to go through and not everyone makes it.
It has been made divisive, primarily through the efforts of a small group that go into attack mode every time they see it.
What?? There's a "secret group"?? Dang...I miss out on all the cool stuff. Is there like a secret handshake and a top secret password and stuff?
I like your suggestion of team building, Izzy. And I don't care for the fractures and splits here. I don't blame people like you, Randy and others for being upset at not being included in something you wanted to pursue - I'd probably have felt (anger? frustration? whatever) too. And I know personally that not everyone feels the way some feel, and not every AP Hubber feels attacked. I certainly hope there are good feelings here, too.
So, how do we create a team atmosphere? We are all on the same site. Everyone here wants the same basic outcomes. Randy did a good thing by pointing out that glitch, and it indeed is something that needs addressed.
I've learned so much from you, Randy, Mark, and many (many) others who were here long before I ever heard of HP. I don't know how I can return those favors - certainly not through any skill in SEO or anything like that. I'm a decent writer, and I care about all of you and the site - maybe that's a start?
We shouldn't be having discussions that result in people (good and nice people) throwing barbs, or, worst case, getting banned. That stuff is for high school detention halls or something.
Sign me up for the team thing - I like the way that sounds..
You are so wrong so often I don't know where to start, wilderness. Not all APs are pets and favorites, I've already said this once. So you don't like me, big deal. I think I can live with that. And actually I feel better knowing you don't approve of me. Thanks!
Yes - it came from HP long ago. They are using a small group of hubbers as test subjects, kind of like beta testers, as part of their ongoing efforts to reduce the time needed.
No specifics as to just how they are being used, just that they have a few guinea pigs to work on. Nor, as I understand it, is there any intent to expand that group although the longer term goal is to eliminate the pending period as much as possible, perhaps to zero for most hubbers.
Well I decided to not publish anything, anywhere that puts a "noindex" tag on my work. I would not mind if I had to wait 24-48 hrs before publishing, but once published, I want it available! The last one I published sent Google away from my stuff for weeks. I usually get crawled daily.
Guessing that you missed the post from Paul here and the other forum; apparently they've gotten to the point that most hubs clear in 12 hours or less. They've got a ways to go, but recognize the problem and are working on it.
Like you, I'm crawled every day (although not every hub, apparently) but I don't write current events stuff so it's not so bad. Just take care not to start spreading links before it clears pending.
Within that time, if the SEs come around and see the tag, they don't come back for weeks. So even though the hub is "cleared" it sits in limbo.
My last published hub took weeks to be found in the search engines. It now sits on a #4 position on Google.
Thanks for the Clarification Paul
Can you clarify the information for this hub (latest)
How to Get Rid of Crickets Inside Your Home
by Barbara Kay published 47 minutes ago
You said it's featured. Has it been through QAP? in 47 minutes?
If not, how has its QAP score been determined?
Perhaps it has been featured, prior to going through QAP, because the author is 'trusted'.
So how does the time on the "instant featured" Hubbers appear on the latest hubs? I know several who have this privilege--not all older Hubbers either-- and theirs are listed as being published in minutes also on the "latest hubs" page. Just as the hub I pointed out on this thread. So the listing is confusing. Why not list the time when the hubs are "featured" on the LH page then to avoid confusion?
So let me get this straight, Paul. On the LH page when habee, froggy, bard, or others publish a hub what does the time indicate, published or featured? And what did the newbies time of 31 minutes indicate, featured, correct?
I tried to sift through all the comments but my eyes are tired so here is my addition.
I think hubs get featured faster based on their search-ability, the keywords and type of content. Apparently the "duplicate" hub was a well searched keyword, hence a faster feature time. Non-the-less that proves that new hubbers should go through a waiting period before their hubs get featured regardless of the type of hub they publish. The fact that a duplicate hub published by a newbie gets featured in so little time means HP needs to do more to secure the reputation of the site. Hubbers with a proven track record should be given the lead on this one.
@ Marcy. I think the hubbers that get featured immediately are those who get a high amount of traffic or those showing potential for higher earnings. Again this this just my assumption as I don't have proof of this.
No, you are wrong. I know of many quality hubbers who are held back in the queue. I know you are one of those who is allowed instant featuring. Know not why.
Well? Is Paul coming back to clear up the other stuff? Or is he still on the road? I have a few more questions I'd like to ask.
Randy there was actually a pretty decent anwer in a different thread - it probably won't answer the questions the way we'd like but it is an explanation.
While I know we can argue for days about whether this is the right or wrong method - this is the first time I've ever seen something that is more tangible than most of the answers we get. I know you want honesty - and for once, while we may not like every word, I do suspect there's quite a lot of honesty in there....
Maybe it's just me, but I see nothing wrong with the quotes you refer to.
A little bit of frustration shows in his posts, but Randy is one of the nicest guys on this site.
I really fail to see why he was attacked on so many sides by people I used to have a lot of time for. Why can't you all show him the respect his dedication to the site deserves, and be a little less condescending in your replies to his comments?
Thanks Izzy, I knew they would come out of the woodwork if I re-entered the forums. Same old same old!
*Shrugs* I can't speak for anyone else but he gave me crap and I handed it back to him. Now we both know how we feel about each other.
Randy = did you notice that your objective question on the other forum got a detailed answer - it may not be the answer you wanted but at least it was a decent reply...
He'll say he cornered them and they had to respond... and that PE is still spinning.
Actually in this case I'll defend Randy - I asked him to ask a question without any agression etc. and see if he gained a response - he did exactly that. It wasn't a question that pointedly forced HP to answer, and was a very fair question.
I can speak for myself, Melissa. No need to try and put words in my mouth. You've done enough of that already. Don't you have some nickles to earn somewhere?
Per a comment from the infamy hub...
Happy Birthday, Summerberrie! I hope you stay around for many more.
So we found a caching bug that is showing a published time that is closer to the featured time than it actually is. It takes some special circumstances to occur, but it looks possible according to Deeds. He'll fix it and we will keep an eye on it. But, the true time from published to featured was 12 hours.
@Randy Godwin - It possible to get through the QAP quicker at certain times because of capacity in the system. The Hub in question was published at 3am when our queues were shorter. When lots of Hubs get published in a short period (happens) it takes longer to get through the queue.
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