I rarely complain and try to be as polite as possible. However,there are some things that sometimes really confuse me and I struggle to understand how HP works. For example I recently came upon hubs that struggle (at best) with the use of the English language. The author has very few hubs (two dozen and 3) and not so impressive total views, yet has a hubber score in the high nineties. I wonder how is it possible for the hubber score to be so high when others with double the number of hubs, mastery of the language have a much lower score.
There I had my venting moment and hope that someone can shed some sense into this..................
I could be very wrong but I believe that the total hubber score is geared mostly to community participation.
Participation is a part but there are other factors such as number of visits per a pre-determined time frame,average number of words per hub,accolades and so on.
According to our fellow hubbers and same goes as my experience. Hubscore as a hubber envolves your interaction in the community. Answer question, ask one, create forums and comment hubs would increase your hubscore. And yes quality hubs also affects your score. But be more active and certainly you'll be on higher. Currently I am also confuse how its measured.
You have a right to ask this question. Like you said you have been here awhile and understand the rules. I can never figure out the profile score. I have been cleaning up the people I follow and unfollowed people for various reasons but mostly because their account is closed or it's been years since they have been here, as soon as I started doing that my profile score dropped.
I don’t know the answer.
It does appear that the more you interact in the forums/question sections the score drops. Don't know why but it seems to have something to do with it.
Hey Luis, it's hard to figure out but everything is done in moderation.
The participation has to be done in moderation. If you do too much the score drops and too little does the same.
This is what I found with my scores:
If I leave for a few days and my traffic goes up, my score either remain the same or goes up. When the traffic and hub average drops the score also drops.
If I come back and do not participate and only check my hubs my score falls or remain the same. If I come to the forums and make a few posts, answer a question or two my score increases.
What affects my score in the most positive way is reading and commenting on hubs. If I do at least half dozen of that, my score spikes and this includes using the hub hopper.
I understand what you are saying. I use to be concerned but am so busy that I just focus on the enjoyment. If you want other people to read your articles, make sure you read some of theirs.
Such 'venting' is a terrible use of energy.Instead focus your energy on your own writing and try to do the very best you can do. Do not spread negative thoughts throughout the hub community, it creates animosity among us, feeds on insecurity and stifles creativity... Your comment has satisfied the hunger of the beast called Insecurity. Insecurity lives in all of us and lives off of comments like the one above.
It's not cool.
Accept the fact that some people are in the right place at the right time and they get a bigger piece of the pie or a better ranking in life or whatever.
Let the HubPages quality people do their work of taking care of hubs they deem unfit. Or better yet, help them by hopping hubs and quietly expressing your views there.
Keep being polite and show some temperance. Everything will be ok in the end. Peace, out fellow hubber..
Do not misunderstand my intention. I have been here long enough to know the rules, the procedures, the "factors" that go into hubber scores for the most part.
The post is an attempt at gathering some reasoning and a better understanding in how HP assigns scores etc..Nothing more ,nothing less and certainly no attempt to foster any negativity!
To clarify further, I personally do not see a need for hubber scores, but they are here to stay and while it does not seem to affect how any writer writes so far as quality is concerned, it can still lead new visitors to formulate an impression in regards to a particular writer and "the quality" of their articles.
In other words a new visitor may see an author's high score and come to the conclusion that his/her articles are better than others since their author score is high. This may seem irrelevant or even insignificant but it does play a part in how some people approach their writing.
I've been here for 3 years and no one knows for sure what really makes up a hub score. The good news is that it doesn't effect your earnings at all.
I started a thread on this months ago.
It might be an idea to add your concerns to that thread? Perhaps reply to one of Simone's posts, that way she's more likely to notice your comment.
If you read the thread, you'll see the staff admit scores don't mean much, but they're not willing to get rid of them until they have a replacement.
With all due respect, if one is here for a pat on the back for their articles, they're in the wrong place. This place, like the majority of web services sites, survives from ad revenue.
When search engines point people to your articles, everybody gets paid. The sooner that sinks in, the better off an aspiring web publisher will be. If you aren't sure how to make them point to you, the are many hubs that will give you great tips and tools to help one attract traffic. There's way more to this game than words and pictures on a page or simply being a good writer. It takes a lot of work, both internally and most importantly externally.
It might sound harsh, I know, but its the facts that the winners have already faced. With this and many other aspects in life, one should not compare oneself to others, but instead focus on being better then s/he ever was before.
Since it seems that some may surmise that I am expounding a querulous stance let me,again, epitomize my intention. Part of any SEO campaign is to maximize the range of one's audience. Since these scores do play a part, I am just coveting to make sense of the mechanics behind them...............BTW "I wonder how is it possible for the hubber score to be so high when others with double the number of hubs, mastery of the language have a much lower score" is not a direct advertence to my own person since I neither have double the number of hubs or "mastery" of the language.
PS: Just wanted to follow up with a few tips. I know how it is to have a big beautiful billboard in the far outreaches of great Mohave desert.
1: Research SEO and adapt it into your articles. You don't have to change your style but you do have to incorporate SEO into it somehow. At a glace, your works lack SEO.
2: its not enough to say " Hey, I have this awesome article over here Mr/Mrs G & B. More like: Hey Mr/Mrs B &G.. I'm ever here, over here, and over here, and in case you didn't see me over there, here's a link to find me...etc...
3: Build your own web within the web. Its exactly the way you'd picture it. Everything you have should be linking to at least three other things you have somewhere else. And, most importantly, properly categorized to attract your intended audience.
Hope this is enough to get you on the right track. Your work is good, just your SEO could use a little improvement in order to attract your audience.
Thank you but I think I will stay this discourse since it appears to have taken an erroneous discernment of the stated original post.
Sorry I forgot to thank you for you advice, I will try to look at my hubs closer, thanks again ContriveIT
Anytime... I really didn't mean to sound harsh. My company does SEO and believe me, it was hard to grasp it all. And, even when you do, the rules change. I wish you the best and feel free to drop me a note if you need some tips or SEO critique. I still don't claim to be an expert but I pick up on tech stuff fast and am willing to share.
Not everyone lives in a country where english is the main language, so not everyone's english is perfect. Still these people should be able to publish articles .. this is my opinion.
People should be able to publish, however please be aware that if your grammar, spelling and the like is not up to a high quality of English, your hub may be marked down as part of the Quality Assessment Process, as grammar is one of the quality factors that HP assesses for hubs.
It may be that people should be able to publish (and we have many excellent writers on this site who have mastered English as their second language), but a host site has the right to set standards for readability, quality and other factors that affect the site as a whole. So this may not be the best venue for someone whose writing skills don't reach that level of quality.
I have noticed the same thing the OP has mentioned, and I believe the site is working to address the Hubber score to reflect quality as well as social skills.
The major factor that seems to impact my score is views. When views go up, so does my score, and vice versa. It does not even have to involve large movements. Also, it is not the number of views per se that affects the score, but the percentage change in views. I barely get any views on my hubs (30 per day is doing really well for me!), but since there are no wild swings in either direction, my score only tends to move by a few points each way.
To be honest, I no longer care! I consider this site to be a failed experiment in terms of the topics I hoped to cover. I have no motivation whatsoever to produce any more hubs and am just waiting for what I have to be idled out of existence.
I am sorry for your frustration, LuisEGonzalez. HubScore is by no means perfect, but we're doing what we can to make it a more accurate representation of quality. We have actually recently tweaked it so that it reflects human quality ratings that are applied to the Hub. That said, not all old Hubs have been rated (as of yet), so the Hub in question might simply not be providing us with enough information for us to give it an accurate score, if that makes any sense.
TL:DR: Sorry. The HubScore does more to incorporate quality now, but we have yet to have humans rate everything. :-/
Thanks Simone. This was just an attempt to understand the process better and I cited one example that to me at least did not make sense.
Simone, you misunderstand. The o.p. is talking about Hubber Scores, not Hub Scores.
We keep being told that scores have no relevance. Then why are they there? I like both the Hub Scores and Hubber Score, they motivate me. Hub Scores and Hubber Scores can serve two useful but very different purposes.
Hub Scores are no longer visible to outsiders, which is OK by me. On my stats page the Hub Scores are a good guide on how my hubs are doing. If they fall below 70, something is amiss and I tweak them. In that sense, Hub Scores are very useful to me.
Hub Scores can reflect:
Hubber Scores are probably derived from average Hub Scores plus other factors. For example, my average Hub Score is between 79/80 but my Hubber Score between 92/93. When I was writing more frequently my Hubber Score was much higher. So I know for a fact that if you stop publishing new hubs for a few months, your Hubber Score goes down.
Like the o.p., I also get the feeling that some new hubbers quickly achieve a very high Hubber Score in proportion to both the quantity and (sometimes) the quality of their work. I figured they need encouragement and that is the reason why that is so. But as mentioned by the o.p., the public Hubber Score on our profile page gives readers an indication of our value/merit as authors.
As for involvement in forums and comments, that is already covered by the accolades, so those factors should not have anything to do with our public Hubber Score, they have no relevance to our profile shown to the reading public outside of HP.
Ditto for infrequent publishing. That is a matter between HP and individual authors, nothing to do with the public outside which HP is trying to attract. Because you publish less frequently doesn't mean you are a worse writer than when you published 3 hubs a week. Capice? If we publish less, we earn less. That is enough punishment on its own and that should not be reflected in our public Hubber Score.
So perhaps the Hubber Score should reflect:
Age on the site
Overall quality of content
and nothing else.
At least in that way the Hubber Score wouldn't go up and down like an out of control yoyo worrying people who are then told "Don't worry, scores don't mean anything"!
We do explain in our Learning Center guides that Hubber Scores also factor in community involvement. Rest assured that one single aspect of community involvement does not account for all the extra boost one can get.
For example, frequent publication may help, but heck... I haven't published a Hub for months and my score is still pretty high (my average HubScore ain't that high either, last time I checked), so I suppose my involvement in the Forums and time on site help.
What I'm trying to say is that we're doing our best to be fair about the 'community involvement' aspect of the. And while I agree there is a lot of potential value to just showing Hubber Scores that are a reflection of age and quality, that doesn't cover everything.
For example, some things that can *hurt* Hubber Scores are distinct actions one may take on the site that are commonly executed by spammers (such as quickly Following very high volumes of Hubbers), and there is definitely value in pulling down one's 'community involvement' slice of one's Hubber Score for doing spammy things.
We have had (and continue to have) many internal discussions about the value of HubScores and Hubber Scores (and whether we should make them visible- or keep them at all). Many on the staff agree with you, many have very different opinions, too.
Rest assured that what we *are* doing is continuously making tweaks to the scores' design and relevance to ensure that they provide as much value and accuracy as possible.
Ah- one more thing- while we do tell people to not obsess over Hubber Scores and HubScores, they *do* mean something- they can be the difference between having your Hubs prominently Featured or not. They can mean the difference between having access to Exlcusive titles or not. They influence visibility on our internal selection tools as we choose Hubs to feature in our newsletter, in the Rising Star Program, and in our social media feeds.
So the scores definitely matter- they help us sort through things. But they only matter as a means of helping us gauge quality, and it is quality on which we really want folks to focus.
Hope that clears things up a bit...
I always knew the scores matter though many say they don't. What does it mean when you say "the difference between having access to Exclusive titles or not." I have no idea what exclusive titles are.
Thanks Simone for explaining more about the scores.
Moonlake - Exclusives titles are a new feature. If your Hubber score is over 80, when you go to create a new hub, it will 'autofill' some drop-down ideas for titles as you enter a word in the title field. These are supposed to be titles that or topics that are underutilized on HP. If you select one, you'll see a yellow Exclusives box on your screen and in your account, but it's not visible to others.
HP may be tweaking it a bit - not sure - some of us have not had the traffic we'd hoped for, and you still need to do keyword research, etc. The titles are somewhat frozen, so if you later want to change one, you have to ask staff to do that. However, if the title shows up in the Tuner, you can adjust it there.
Some of mine are turning into high performers. Some not so much.
Luis, I agree with you and share your sentiments. I've made the same observations, not so much about bad English but more about bad grammar, sentence structure, and flow. It is a mystery to me that certain hubberscores are in the high nineties who have lesser quality hubs and half the number that I have. It is only human to wonder and become frustrated.
For example, I'm regulary active in the community, read and comment on hubs, have received several accolades, and I'm consciencious about writing quality hubs. My views also spiked this weekend. However, I wake up this morning and hubberscore dropped 2 points. I've never been in the high nineties.
Some of the posts here are correct about the fact that we are feeding into our insecurities but I don't think our concerns should be minimiized. No one is intentionally spreading negativity. I think it is smart to analyze and state observations about things that don't seem to make any sense.
We are told to do certain things as writers and participants in a community that will pay off. When those things don't seem to work consistently with no explanation as to why, it can create disillusionment. As long as we are not being mean about it and are continuing to remain involved, I think we should have the right to express it.
Very well put, Janshares - I think you summed up how we are feeling very well. It's frustrating to see something that implies a degree of excellence (the Hubber score) and have no clear idea how to attain it. It is also confusing to see people on the site who clearly do not write well (or are stealing content, or posting 'hubs' consisting of nothing but "Auntie" pictures), have high "Hubber" scores.
If the scores do not reflect anything consistent, perhaps they should be eliminated completely. If they are somehow part of what drives traffic from Google (hard to see how how that would be done), it's even more important to have good values attached to those scores. Otherwise, that score is driving traffic to low-quality and even illegal hubs on the site.
I agree with Luis (who is an excellent Hubber with considerable experience here). The scores are a needless mystery, and should be more transparent. If the site expects us to strive for quality, and if the site has a 'quality indicator' of us as writers, we deserve to know what to do to attain good scores.
Thanks, Simone, for always being open to questions and for providing the best available answers. And thank you, HP staff, for your willingness to listen to us!
Thanks for the observation, I was not that frustrated as I was confused. My point was for someone to share some insights so that I could get a better grasp of the entire process. Thanks again janshares
it is definitely the participation factor which boosts your score. Just writing a hub and thinking they will come is not good enough. Sharing in the forum, answers and your own sharing methods FB, Twitter, links in other places will all help.
I'm not sure I agree with all these factors but I am willing to make an experiment. I will stay away from all forums,answers, publishing etc..for three days and see if any trend develops
My impression is that the participation aspect is minimal or nil. My accounts that do these things don't differ obviously in score from those that don't--if number of hubs and traffic per hub is taken into account
Agreed. I have another account with half the number of hubs as this one. That account has never participated on the forums, followed people or done anything else.
At present it is doing better than my main account in terms of views and earnings, and has a fairly high score.
I would love for the fatuous impression that "social activity" is important to be demolished once and for all. It would put an end to the numerous empty comments constantly being placed on forums and hubs by losers hoping for a quick buck. They drag down the quality of this site and make it unpleasant to use by genuine hubbers.
Thanks, psycheskinner and WriteAngled for validating that for me. I always value the common-sense posts that both of you offer. Now I can rule out the value of consistent participation although I do enjoy it. I'm convinced now, more than ever, that fluctuations are due to unseen, erroneous factors over which I have minimal control, if any at all. I will slowly let go of what is turning into an obsession and focus on writing and other neglected tasks outside of hp.
I'm confused too Luis. I'm not understanding a lot of what goes on at HP. I'm hoping the fact that I'm a relative newbie and that I just need more experience is the answer.
You are a perfect example; you have been on the site for 12 months, have only 11 hubs, but your hubs are great reads and your language skills are beyond question. In your case your high score (97) is deserved unlike some other examples which were what originally caused my confusion.
Thanks Luis for bringing this up because I was wondering the exact same thing. I've only been here just under 4 weeks and seem to be stuck at a hubberscore of 79 even though my hubs are exactly what HubPages says they should be - original, well written (I'm a professional writer and editor), engaging, informative, search friendly, over 1300 views (not sure if that's a good number or not). I'm asking and answering questions, hub-hopping, and commenting. And I'm also scratching my head in confusion.
I guess bots or algos or McTurk determine score. That makes me feel better, I guess. We just keep on writing and hoping for the best. Write, comment, read, participate and hope Google likes us. One fun thing is the HP author community. It is a great learning and friendly site.
Ditto, brakel2. And thank you for always being supportive of my work. I guess that's what really counts. The rest will come in time if we keep plugging along. I'll never forget when, as a newbie, you asked me if I was in the apprentice program or when you commented that one of my hubs should get HOTD. So sweet, flattering, and encouraging.
I agree. I've been viewed over 1000 times, and have over 100 hubs and tend to be only in the high 80's! For a brief moment in time I was in the 90's but I think that was for only a day, and then I fell again. If you find out, please let me know!
I'm sure there have probably been a few adjustments over the years, but darkside's hub explains hubberscore. I've taken his advice and don't even think about it. I remember when I started here with a handful of hubs, my score was in the high 90's. I'm pretty sure ratio plays into the score somehow.
The times I did hit 100 usually cost me in that my top hubs were copied. I'm glad they don't have the list of hot hubbers and hot hubs any longer. I frequently find amazing hubs of hubbers I've never heard of with scores in the 80's or below. The hubberscore is not important, I think it's better to focus on the value we bring to the site as a whole.
RebekahELLE - you make a great point here - the more visible Hubbers are on this site, the more they're subject to having material stolen, harassment and other annoying things. As we discuss the Hubber Score, I'm questioning its value more and more. I will be glad when the site finds a way to inform us of how it is determined and how it is used internally (if at all). If it could somehow reflect true quality of the hubs, that would be great. But as we know, that's not the case.
As with you - my score increased quickly and has stayed high (but wavers small numbers of points now and then). It's a mystery number, and yet it can give people anxiety when you see the number go down inexplicably.
I find the hubber score quite valuable. Every time it hits 100 I get a bunch of newbie followers that will never read a hub but make the numbers on my profile (that visitors seldom see) look good. As pointed out it's probably a reason for exercising one's talent in filing DMCA's as well.
Doesn't that count for something?
My score has fallen 8 points in 24 hours. During that time I've been reasonably active on the site and my traffic has been only slightly below normal. Who the heck knows why the scores do what they do. I decided long ago not to worry about it.
No, I'm not worrying about it either. I was confused and curious, but there seems like there is no rhyme or reason. I actually find it rather amusing that scores don't reflect how good a writer or hub is. I always to strive to write high quality, whether it's for hubpages or a print publication. Quality writing is like an obsession for me. Or maybe a disease, haha!
I think the general hub adage to ignore hubber score unless the go below 75 is a good one. You don't get paid for your hubber score.
I generally don't pay too much attention to my hubber score as I do my hub scores, but lately I've noticed that each time I unfollow a hub (not the hubber) because of too much emails sent to me, my hubber score usually drops down 2 or more. May just be a coincidence, but I wonder.
HI, ComfortB - that's a new one to me! I hadn't paid attention to it - but I have adjusted my settings so that I don't get the actual emails. It cut way down on the amount of in-box clutter I was getting! That way, I can revisit hubs if I want (you can see where you commented in your accounts activity section) and I watch my feed. I had no idea we could lose points by unfollowing a hub - but it makes sense that the system could have that tweak. Who knows!
I had no idea either. I unfollow hubs, forums, and questions constantly as I read the author's reply, in order to control the constant emails. Oh dear, this may be a factor. Marcy, I will look into the email setting options. Thank you, ComfortB, for that angle. Also, sidebar, I think Starbuck's is overrated, too.
With one exception, because that hub has become a place of discussion among friends, I never set myself to follow hub comments. It's bad enough getting emails almost every day whenever people I follow produce new hubs. I cannot understand the assumption that I am going to drop everything to read a hub! Looking at what people I follow have produced is something I prefer to do in my own time, without having these endless reminders.
I don't care so much what hubcsore is, I just wish we were actually told what it was based on.
Until then I will ignore it in favor or traffic and featured/non-featured which have a clear meaning.
Simone wrote jer latest reply to the subject here:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/110626? … ost2355293
Luis - I totally share your comments regarding the hubber score and recently posted the very same "unfairness." (At least is is to me.) I have very good traffic, consistent and all, and have written my share of "steller hubs."
I "go by the book." My score is a "slap in the face" after all these years on HP. I really feel the sting when I come across hubs which lack good content, terrible spelling, etc. with a hubber score that I've never reached!
Do not tell me to ignore this score because it is, most certainly a reflection of my writing!
I'll shut up for now but I'm getting more discouraged by the minute.
Sorry I've no answers for you. Your hubs are outstanding!!!
No, it's not a reflection of your writing! That's an understandable misconception and one of the reasons many of us think Hubberscore should be retired.
Hubber score is based on:
- The collective HubScores of your Hubs
- Your activity in the Forums
- Your support of other Hubbers through comments
- The number and quality of Questions you ask
- The number and quality of Answers you have given
So you can see, most of the factors are about social activity, nothing to do with the quality of your writing at all. Hubber Score is largely a measure of "your contribution to the community".
Marisa, that may be true, but it is illogical to think that someone who has been here a few months, has a few hubs, traffic etc, can get a high Hubber score mostly based on social participation.
For example I have seen my score rise when I abstain from commenting, answering questions, making comments and so on and the same has been noted by others. So if not participating in any social activity then the score would appear to rise or fall simply on views.
This is what has confused me and others when it comes to the Hubber/profile score. I still hold to the belief that they should either be done away with or other factors such a time on the site, number of featured hubs, number of views, number of followers (not those you follow) and to a lesser extend social participation should be the elements that make it rise or fall.
That's my opinion but nevertheless I still hold HP to be the best writing platform out there.
So if it's all about balance, I won't do anything of everything... that should bring the balance back for me lol.
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