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Stop unfairly, artificially depressing my Hubber Score!

  1. Nicole Winter profile image60
    Nicole Winterposted 3 years ago

    That is damn strange, James.  I'm sorry you're going through this, it does seem punitive.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you, Nicole. Has my post disappeared? I see that Beth copied it but has it been erased from the top of this thread?

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Huh... that's kinda deep throat like...

      2. Dale Hyde profile image87
        Dale Hydeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I as wondering about this as well. I figured you had deleted the original post, James.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I think many of us were wondering why James's first post was deleted, Dale.  I suppose HP didn't like it so someone from staff deleted it.  Why else?  yikes

          1. Dale Hyde profile image87
            Dale Hydeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Umm...sure it is not a technical glitch, Randy? Haha! smile  "Manual" does not work here in admin does he?

          2. James A Watkins profile image91
            James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            RANDY! Thanks for all you said, my friend. I have checked  a bunch of the Forums and as far as I can tell, mine is the only one in which the original post has disappeared! HERE IS WHAT I WROTE:

            My Hubber Score is 61; my wife's is 91. I have had 1,424,725 visitors to my Hubs and my wife has had 154,296. For today I beat her (not literally, she is quite well behaved) 1165 to 125; for the week 7442 to 470; for the month 35,608 to 3,257.  So it is surely not the number of visitors that makes her a 91 and me a 61. As for activity in the HubPages Community, I have read over ten thousand Hubs written by other Hubbers and left very nice comments on almost all of them.  My wife does not read other Hubbers content at all, ever.  So that's not it. I have had 41,250 comments on my Hubs while she has had 1,354. So it cannot be because of "activity in HubPages" that she is a 91 whilst I am a 61. As for popularity, I have 3,166 Followers to her 304. As far as Accolades, I have 1856 Useful to her 275; 304 Funny to her 26; 1893 Awesome to her 292; 953 Beautiful to her 220; and 1145 Interesting to her 49.  So it can't be the popularity algorithm that makes her a 91 and me a 61. Though she IS a lovely woman.
            Not one of my active Hubs has a HubScore below 70. So that's not it. Someone said it could be the Source of my Traffic but nearly all of it is from Google, so that can't be it. Another Hubber noticed my incredibly low Author Score and told me that I should unpublished my weakest Hubs to raise my score.  I unpublished my 100 lowest ranked Hub and my Hubber Score did not budge at all.  Another said maybe I follow too many Hubbers or too many inactive or low-ranking Hubbers, so I spent a lot of time and eliminated nearly 1000 Hubbers I was following—the ones inactive or with HubberScores below 80 (like mine).  I gotta tell you that I noticed having an Author Score of 61 puts me in the dregs of the HubPages writers. 
            The first two years I wrote for HubPages my Author Score was always above 95, and most of the time I was in the top 10 or 20 of all Hubbers. I complained a year or two ago about some of my Hubs being demonetizied, and the very next day my HubberScore dropped 20 points and has sunk out of sight since. A Staffer told me there is no way any HubPages employee can affect my HubberScore, that it is all automatic. Being a statistician, I know this is not true. A higher up at HubPages told me I was being penalized because some Hubbers I followed had since been banned, but not to worry, the penalty was now lifted. No change. Surely, this is unfair and an injustice.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Let's see if it disappears again, James.  At least now everyone can read your opening post.

            2. Thelma Alberts profile image81
              Thelma Albertsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              That´s so unfair James. I hope everything will turn out ok for you.

              1. James A Watkins profile image91
                James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you Thelma. It is nice to know you are in my corner. :-)

                1. Cardisa profile image90
                  Cardisaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh James, I can't believe this is your score. When I met you, you were one of the top hubbers here. Your score was usually around 95-98 if I can recall. I am so sorry for this. I hope it goes right back where it belongs.

                  1. James A Watkins profile image91
                    James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Thank you very much for your kind words.

            3. Laura Schneider profile image92
              Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              It sounds like a bug, a seriously important one for them to fix. You have your wife to compare to; the rest of us might also have incorrect scores and just not have a clue! Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

              1. James A Watkins profile image91
                James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Laura Schneider— You are quite welcome. Thank you for all of your words of support and encouragement.
                James

      3. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
        Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        James, the notice I see when I came to your forum thread is:

        Sorry, the post you are looking for is no longer available on this page. If it still exists you should be able to find it here now:
        http://hubpages.com/forum/post/2368340.

        1. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
          Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I did not see your original post, James, but I get the message. There seems to be a lot of issues here that affect our scores and other progress. It seems highly unfair to me that we have to constantly be concerned about these things. With all the work we put into our hugs, giving our time to make sure we write quality hubs, find images, use all the capsules.... it is a lot of hard work and we should be getting more good out of all this, not stress added to stress.

          1. James A Watkins profile image91
            James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Phyllis Doyle--- It is always a pleasure to read your words. Yes, it would seem to me that any outfit of young idealists from San Francisco would think it paramount to deal with ALL people with fairness and tolerance, respecting diversity and inclusiveness.

            1. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
              Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you, James. I just wonder .... Where would HP be without all of us dedicated writers?

          2. Laura Schneider profile image92
            Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I agree, Phyllis, 100%. But then I, too, am an idealist who expects things to work correctly and the world to be as fair to me as I am to it.

            1. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
              Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Spot on, Laura. I see nothing wrong with expecting perfection from a site that wants to be high caliber. I do find mistakes in hubs of mine and correct them as quickly as possible; I edit, edit, edit to make sure I have quality hubs; I expect perfection from myself when I put something out to the public -- I do not feel it is wrong to expect perfection from the site I write for.

        2. Rosie2010 profile image83
          Rosie2010posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Phyllis, that link also says " 404 Page doesn't exist".  I didn't see James' post, so I'm very curious what he wrote that was offensive it triggered auto-delete.  Or, was it deleted by "Manual"... I heard he works at HP hq.  big_smile

          1. rebekahELLE profile image91
            rebekahELLEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If you view the thread in chronological view, it is on the first page included in a response from Beth, 7th post.

            1. Rosie2010 profile image83
              Rosie2010posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks Rebekah, but I can see only this page with Nicole Winter's post 35 hours ago at the top of the page... so strange!

              1. rebekahELLE profile image91
                rebekahELLEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Are you in chronological view mode?  Page 1 has Nicole Winter's post at the top.  Jame's original post is included on the 7th post on page 1 within Beth's reply.   I hope something changes for him.

                1. Rosie2010 profile image83
                  Rosie2010posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks again, Rebekah.  I got it now, and I learned something new today... the "chronological" view mode! 

                  Now that I'd read James' post, I feel so bad for him.  That's so unfair!

                  1. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
                    Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Yes, it is highly unfair and in my opinion it is not a random quirk.

      4. Levertis Steele profile image83
        Levertis Steeleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        James, You have a score of 96 now!

    2. Levertis Steele profile image83
      Levertis Steeleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I have had aa hub score that ranged from 91-93 for most of my stay on HubPages. I remember it falling to the latter 80's a time or two for a short period, and it fell to about 74 for a day or two once. It mostly has been 93. I do not know why. I have 6 hubs, and that is as much as I am able to handle. I have ads on all of them, and I deleted a hub that was kicked to the curb when someone reported me for causing her to feel guilty about her abortion after reading my hub.   

      I was thinking that you did have some very controversial, but quite interesting attention-getting hubs, and you-know-which hub really got all kinds of weird and interesting attention. I feel almost certain that you might have been reported for many reasons by many people. You did not delete or revamp your hub(s) that lost ads. Maybe that was the culprit. I do not know.

      You are a great, interesting, and attention-getting author. You know how to pull traffic and your style is addictive. "Style" may not be the right word, but something about your skills is addictive. It draws readers. You are gifted in many ways, and I do not know why you have not "blown" up on HubPages. I must say that your HP record as it stands is super impressive--over a million visitors! Man! Maybe the huge number of writers is too much for the staff to really evaluate thoroughly. They depend on hubbers to help with that, and many are not professional enough to do a good job of it.

      About a week ago I read that article about your plane crashing. It knocked me off my feet! It was so deep, detailed, and emotional. I felt as if I were living every moment of that tragedy from start to finish. You would come out clean! I was not surprised. WoW!

      I wish I could read your wife's work. I will try to find her although I do not know her HubPages name. I will try "Watson." I love the way you compliment her. I get a lump in my throat when men are good to their wives. That is important to me.

      I wish you well, and I believe that your reward is "somewhere around the bend." Many blessings!

  2. hawaiianodysseus profile image92
    hawaiianodysseusposted 3 years ago

    I agree with you, James, that there is definitely something very unfair going on in your situation. My techie knowledge sucks, but what I can offer you is my moral support and conviction that things will be righted. This is an instance where I wish Simone Haruko Smith would respond promptly and direct this problem to the appropriate department.

    Best wishes to you, James! Hope it all gets resolved soon!

    Joe

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I sure appreciate your warm words of encouragement Joe. Thank you!
      James

  3. sparkster profile image94
    sparksterposted 3 years ago

    I cannot see any logical answer.  I have considered everything you've stated, I have looked at your profile, your hubs, your activity, etc.  Your content is rich, unique, informative and you have good articles.  Considering you've managed to rake in over a million page views in three years and I haven't even generated half a million (yet) and the fact that I've been here for 5 years, and also considering the fact that you have thousands of followers and I only have hundreds, and that I have a hubber score of usually above 90 - it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!  Something is not right.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I appreciate you taking a look at it, Sparkster. There is, as you say, no way this makes any sense from a mathematical standpoint. I am being punished for having a Conservative Christian worldview. One would think that I would be included under the desire for "diversity" and "inclusiveness" not to mention "tolerance" and "fairness." :-)

      1. quotations profile image93
        quotationsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        It may be an indirect effect - perhaps your hubs are being downvoted by visitors or by the Mturkers because they do not like your content. That would depress your hubscore and have an indirect effect on your hubber score.

        Today my hubber score jumped up but it seems to have no real effect on earning, which have been fairly constant. You seem to be getting a lot of traffic anyway and if you are making money and reaching your readership I would not worry too much about your score. It's more of a vanity thing for us hubbers and does not seem to really affect anything.

        I have always enjoyed your hubs James and while I don't always agree with what you write I hope you will continue doing what you are doing.

        1. James A Watkins profile image91
          James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          quotations-- Thank you very much for your thoughtful remarks and kind words. It might just be a vanity thing. But no one likes to be called "ugly" I don't suppose. :-)

      2. janderson99 profile image85
        janderson99posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps 3000+ followers is too many in HP eyes

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          If he had 2 fish and 5 loaves of bread he could feed them all.

          1. Rosie2010 profile image83
            Rosie2010posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            lol

        2. Rosie2010 profile image83
          Rosie2010posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Perhaps a tad too many.  Perhaps if it was only 2,999, perhaps it would not have triggered the automod. 

          "Attention.  Attention.  3000+ followers!!!  Shoot at sight!"

          Perhaps...

          1. James A Watkins profile image91
            James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Rosie 2010! Great to see you here. I think you are onto something. :-)

            1. Rosie2010 profile image83
              Rosie2010posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Hi James, that could be it!  Phew!  Good thing the automod was not "Shoot to kill"  yikes

              Seriously though, James, what happened to your hubber score is so strange.  You have a lot of support here.  Take care smile

              1. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
                Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                This reminds me of the warning signs posted around Area 51: "Warning - Anyone stepping beyond this point will be shot."

                Heaven forbid our best writers could ever be taken down.  smile

      3. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
        Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I so agree with Sparkster, something is definitely not right. 61 ????? this has got to be something seriously wrong and unfair. Comparing your hubs and score to my hubs and score, anyone can plainly see that someone is for sure messin' with your score. Regardless of whether this has anything to do with religious beliefs or personal views, I would not accept this if I were you. This is outrageous !!!!

  4. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    For what it's worth..your one of my favorites.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Reality Bites; I sincerely appreciate your kind compliments.

      1. drmiddlebrook profile image93
        drmiddlebrookposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Hi James,
        I would say "don't let it bother you," but I know it would bother me too, so I can't say that. I think your score should be a lot higher, and I have no idea why it's not. I don't even know anyone else who has as many followers as you, or whose articles generate as many comments as yours. It's a mystery, wrapped in a riddle. I hope someone on the Hub Pages staff will respond to your inquiries, so that we can all get a better understanding of what is going on. Congrats to your wife, for her score, and for scoring a guy with so much depth and insight. : )

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with you that many of the others who are pooh-poohing Jame's concerns would themselves find such a low score disheartening, especially if they had put so much time and work into this site.  On the one hand staff says the profile score is essentially useless, and on the other that it affects other aspects of the site in either a pro or con manner.  Confusing?  Definitely!  yikes

          1. SmartAndFun profile image92
            SmartAndFunposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            In the learning center HP refers to the Hubber Score as "very important." Very confusing.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Yes S&F, a mixed message at best.  Curiouser and curiouser!  cool

        2. James A Watkins profile image91
          James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          drmiddlebrook-- I really appreciate your sympathetic remarks.  I keep hearing that the Hubber Score is nothing more than sheer mathematics at work. But I am a statistician. I can calculate in my head a pitcher's Earned Run Average every 1/3 of an inning. There is absolutely no chance that my Hubber Score has not been lowered by human hands--none. Someone is pressing on the scales.  And lying about it.

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If you are a statistician and understand mathematics, then you will be quite well aware that without the algorithm and knowledge of what goes into the calculation of that score you cannot claim that you know there has been individual, human manipulation outside of the algorithm.  And you certainly can't claim it is because of your religious bent.

            Is there a factor that says any hubber with a name adding to exactly  552 will be permanently dropped 35 points in the third month of 2013 for instance?

            1. James A Watkins profile image91
              James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              While this comment of yours is certainly within the realm of possibility in some universe, what happened to my HubberScore is more akin, in our present reality, to running a 100 meter dash against ten opponents, breaking the tape at the finish line, and being told the next day that you actually finished last. And when you question how that can be, since you, and everyone who witnessed the event, knows you finished in first place, you are told "it was some mysterious algorithms that no one understands, not even the people who designed them," you say to yourself and the world: "A great injustice has been done!"

  5. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    There must be some kind of "glitch" that can be found and corrected.  You're a great writer, quite active, and there's absolutely no logic to this situation.  Hope it is resolved soon.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Silva Hayes,
      I have written to the staff about this "glitch" several times to no avail. If it could be corrected, I would write a new round of Hubs!

  6. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago

    I'd like to see the official answer myself James, as you are a fine writer!  This really needs to be addressed by someone on staff, and pronto!  yikes

    I agree, it is an insult to you as a contributor to HP. mad

    1. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You need to work a bit more real outrage into that comment, somehow, Randy. Emote! Convince the audience that it really is an outrage and Western civilisation is teetering on the edge of the abyss.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I hope the same thing doesn't happen to you, Will.  I've observed you getting a bit perturbed yourself on occasion when things didn't go your way.  cool  James doesn't deserve this.

        1. Will Apse profile image89
          Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          C'mon Randy. If a meteor hit San Francisco, you would find a way to blame the staff for any downtime and probably demand the chair for their charred corpses.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Oh my word... that was funny.
            Randy, it was the op that made the joke.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Funny Will.  You're just full of it.....er...them aren't you.  I haven't blamed this on the staff at all, they are never to blame.  lol  I supposed it to be a glitch in the system, so you are defending staff for naught.

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Randy Godwin,
      Thanks for the good word, my friend.
      James

  7. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 3 years ago

    Sorry to hear that, but the score really doesn't mean anything.

    1. Simone Smith profile image91
      Simone Smithposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I second that; Hubber Score is not something we control on a Hubber level, it is calculated automatically, so there is not anything in particular we are going to affect your Hubber Score in particular, James A Watkins.

      While I do not know what, in particular, might be depressing it, I do know that the following things can depress it:
      1. Following a large number of Hubbers over a short period of time
      2. Getting a lot of low quality scores through the Quality Assessment Process (Your Hubber Score is strongly influenced by your collective HubScores, and those are strongly influenced by quality ratings, though we're still working through the backlog of Hubs, so if you have a lot of old Hubs, not all of them have been rated, and your Hubber Score will change over time as more get rated).
      3. Behaving in any way similarly to a spammer (e.g. publishing Hubs unnaturally fast)

      My best advice would be to ignore your Hubber Score (there don't seem to be any quality or resemblance-to-spammer issues with your account that I can see) and it should improve on its own.

      There is nothing I can do as an admin to affect anyone's Hubber Score. Everyone goes through the same system.

      1. janderson99 profile image85
        janderson99posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You advise to ignore Hubber Scores
        BUT
        "Featured Hubs will be given a grace period between 30 days to one year based on Hubber Score. To make Hubber Score a more accurate representation of the overall quality of one’s Hubs, we have adjusted the manner in which it is calculated to factor in human ratings collected through the Quality Assessment Process."

        Having a low hubber score could mean more hubs get idled quicker so it appears it does really matter to hubbers.

        I also read somewhere that hubber score affects rankings of hubs on the topics pages.
        I think hubber score should be fixed so it more accurately reflects what it is supposed to do if it is used for rankings and other stuff.
        "In general, your Hubber Score is meant to not only reflect the collective quality and success of your Hubs, but also the contributions you have made to the community as a whole."

        1. janderson99 profile image85
          janderson99posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Perhaps HP should tone down the 'spammy' penalties that are applied if authors add hubs 'too' quick or make friends too quickly. To have hubber score go from 90 to 60 because of this is draconian. QAP will now pick up 'thin-gruel' content. Staff have even suggested that if writers have 5 hubs that they have been working on for weeks ready to be published, they should spread the publishing out over several days or weeks to avoid this penalty. This is the tail wagging the dog. Surely its time to fix Hubber Score by reducing the 'maybe spammy' penalty!

        2. James A Watkins profile image91
          James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          janderson99--- Thank you for your outstanding comments. You are spot on that the Hubber Score is important. It is a ranking of the writers on Hubpages compared to each other; a ranking based on QUALITY, or so "they" say. This means that HubPages has declared me to be very low quality writer indeed. It is meant to insult me. And it has.

        3. Cardisa profile image90
          Cardisaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Hi Simone. Doesn't a hubber score under 75 means all your links automatically become no follow? Does that still apply? That used to be the case, maybe it has changed.

      2. James A Watkins profile image91
        James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Simone Smith— Thank you very much for responding to my Forum Post.  Respectfully, the problem cannot be that I have followed too many Hubbers as I have 4 times more following me than I follow and I cut out anyone I was following who had a Hubber Score below 80, OR who hadn't published anything lately. I have never published Hubs "too fast" or been accused of spamming anyone. 
        I appreciate the advice to "ignore" my Hubber Score. But the HubPages Home Page says it is "very important" and that it stands for the quality of the writings by a particular writer. I don't want to brag but truthfully my writings are as good as anyone's on this site; my grammar and spelling are most excellent; my Hubs are laid out nicely; my images tasteful; my subjects are popular (nearly 1.5 million viewers served; and over 40,000 comments posted); and nothing I have written has been refuted as being untruthful. Dozens of other Hubbers have told me repeatedly that my Hubs are the BEST on HubPages—bar none! The thing is this: I have spent thousands of hours of my life researching and producing these articles, which are top-notch, only to see HubPages tell the world I am among the lowest of the shabbiest writers they have, which is not true and is only being done to punish me for having views that are sometimes politically incorrect.
        Until I complained about my by far top money-making Hub being suddenly demonetized after two years up and running without any problems, I had a daily Hubber Score of 95-100 for 700 days straight and the DAY after I complained my score dropped over 20 points to below 80. I complained about that and was told it was a "coincidence" and "should go back up soon." It has never risen above 80 since that day in well over a year. Everyone does not go through the same system. One of your founders admitted to me in February that THERE WAS a penalty on my Hubber Score for "following too many banned Hubbers" but not to worry he removed it and my Score should go back up soon. It has been 2 months and it has gone down further—not up.
        Thank you!
        James

        1. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
          Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          James, I am following this forum and reading all posts. I am still stunned that this has happened to you, one of our best writers with quality hubs. It is unthinkable and makes no sense at all.  Your creative talent, high quality hubs, and expert communication skills should rightfully keep your score consistently above 95, in my opinion.
          Phyllis

          1. Silva Hayes profile image94
            Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Same here.  I gave an example, up a few posts, where one person signed up two years ago, never wrote a single hub, and yet has a score of 76.  I just can't understand what's happened here.  James is one of my faves; he writes brilliant, well-researched, insightful hubs; I always learn something from his articles; and he never fails to courteously reply to every comment.  I am following this with great interest.

            1. EmpressFelicity profile image83
              EmpressFelicityposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Nor me.

        2. PhoenixV profile image80
          PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          What was the hub about?

          1. PhoenixV profile image80
            PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            -

          2. James A Watkins profile image91
            James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The Hub in question was entitled "Black Guys with White Girls."  It was a short article of observations of American society that ended with a question: "Why are we 20 times more likely to see a Black Guy with a White Girl as we are to see a White Guy with a Black Girl?" I certainly didn't say there was anything wrong with it but only asked what is going on that the ratio is obviously nowhere near 50-50. What cultural factors or media influences might be in play? It started a heckuva fascinating conversation.
            I just shut the Hub down last week—on my own volition—since it has been demonetized for nearly two years anyway.  But it has never waned in popularity. It has had nearly 300,000 visitors and about 5,000 comments—from all over the world. For the first couple years I was on HubPages, it was easily my big moneymaker, probably getting 1/4 of my visits all by itself out of almost 200 Hubs. I shut it down because I shut down all 10 or 12 of my 285 Hubs that were demonetized to see if that would make my Hubber Score come back up.  It didn't.
            I am actually writing a book about the comments I got on that Hub. The only people ever upset about the Hub were white girls who have or are dating black guys—some of them expressed outrage that the question was even being asked in public.  Black women mostly said it was about time somebody brought this up because they are sick of their men running off with white women and leaving them with nobody. Black guys seemed to think the whole subject was fun and funny and said, "Yea, man. White women are all over us!"  Asian people chimed in too.  People engaged in the discussion from Africa, Asia, South America, Europe, Canada, and, of course, America. NO ONE doubted that the phenomena is going on in the United States and in Europe, by the way. They differed in their reasons for it which ran the gamut of just about anything one could think of and then some.
            Anyway, this led to the first time I ever had any trouble with HubPages Staff. I came online one day to find the Hub was gone.  I received an email from an anonymous employee who said that there was nothing wrong with the Hub itself, but some of the comments outsiders had made (not Hubbers) were racist. He/she refused to tell me which ones so I deleted maybe 500 comments that were the least bit questionable, by which I mean not factually untrue but just politically incorrect (IQ test results by race, black on white violent crime statistics, etc.).  I resubmitted the Hub and was told  everything was now fine but when the Hub reappeared, the ads had been taken off.  I wrote to ask why and was flat out ignored. Silence.  I was taking in about $40 a month from that one Hub so I wrote back with a more vehement letter. I did not call anybody names or use vulgar language but I strongly stated that I wanted those ads back on there since I had done exactly as requested.  The very next day my Hubber Score had dropped over 20 points, down into the 70s, where it had never been since the first week or two I published Hubs. And it never came back over 80 again. That has been going on two years ago now. When I complained about the 20 point drop overnight, I was told it was a coincidence. Then 2 months ago I was told I was being penalized for some unrelated, nonsensical reason, making the coincidence story out to be a lie.

            1. PhoenixV profile image80
              PhoenixVposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Geez Mr. Watkins that does sound like a provocative hub, based upon the sheer amount of comments.  You seem pretty straightforward so I can imagine you can understand the possible headaches from Hubpages end.  Hubpages is in business to make money, and if they got heat from an advertiser....or it was a risk?

              That does not explain ignoring your concerns, or giving you double talk,  later however. I suspect some of it came from the activity you have described though. Deleting comments, unfollowing etc, in an attempt to "right your score" may have been a contributing factor in suppressing it.

              I am sympathetic to your cause however, and you do have good cause.

              Hubpages should not show favoritism or give the appearance of silencing opinions they do not ascribe to.  If Hubpages is personally promoting some, while,  at the very least ignoring others to a detriment, establishes a pattern.

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Uninvited Writer,
      Maybe you are right that the Hubber Score doesn't mean anything. One of my kids asked me why mine was 61, when Mom's was 91. I didn't know what to say. I guess it is a ranking of the quality of the Authors by the HubPages Company. I can't see what other purpose it can have to assign a score to each writer.

  8. Zelkiiro profile image83
    Zelkiiroposted 3 years ago

    My Hubber score is 93, and was 100 earlier this week. I have 9600 views total.

    Booya~

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I have made 8 cents in 4 days... now usually I would make 32 cents in 4 days... neither is anything to brag about, but something is wrong. I have had 0 views recorded on a hub ppl are commenting on since yesterday... IDK.

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you. I guess.

  9. Gemini Fox profile image93
    Gemini Foxposted 3 years ago

    There IS something very strange going on with these Hubber Scores!  Mine, for the last several weeks, has bounced between 87 and 92 . . . not 85 or 86 or 90 or 91 . . . nope, it's either 87 or 92!  Is there actually an explanation for this?!  Weird . . .

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Gemini Fox--- It is natural for your Hubber Score to fluctuate by 5 points or even 10 over time. Mine has dropped nearly 40 points--and that is highly irregular.

      1. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I saw your hubberscore.   That is abysmal and unfair.   Something have got to give.   This score is totally unfathomable!

        1. James A Watkins profile image91
          James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          gmwilliams-- Thank you ever much for your gracious comments. If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone.  All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Is that not what Edmund Burke said?

          1. Laura Schneider profile image92
            Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Hear hear--great quote!! Appropriate sentiment. We can't just do nothing. We need to act!

    2. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      My hubberscore used to be consistently in the 90s, now it wavers between 90 and 88.   I NEVER had an 88 hubberscore in my life!

    3. Gemini Fox profile image93
      Gemini Foxposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Your score dropped 40?!?!  WOW! 

      In my instance I wasn't referring to the range though - just that it was consistently one of those two scores (either 87 or 92) for several weeks.  What kind of algorithm does that?  Doesn't make sense as my score has always bounced around a bit.

      Course after I wrote my comment here, it went down to 85.  Hmmmmm . . .

  10. Pollyannalana profile image78
    Pollyannalanaposted 3 years ago

    If you ever get an answer you believe James, you are a bigger man than me. lol  I have heard enemies can keep voting you down, I hope Hp would not allow something like that, but i don't see why they have a down button...so... You know you are a fav of mine, dear friend, and I really hate this for you and know your feelings. Things like this turned me off really getting involved a long time ago, so I just use it for my own purposes. But, good luck.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Pollyannalana-- I appreciate the empathy and encouragement, my friend. I have always enjoyed our conversations on HubPages.

  11. SmartAndFun profile image92
    SmartAndFunposted 3 years ago

    Simone, you wrote "I second that" when Uninvited Writer stated that the Hubber Score doesn't really mean anything.

    If Hubber Scores don't have meaning, then why does HP assign them? If they are meaningless HP should just get rid of them. Has that ever been considered?

    1. quotations profile image93
      quotationsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I really think that its primary use is to encourage writers to write better hubs. Its like giving a gold sticker to a student, or the use of karma on reddit (which gets you nothing except bragging rights). I am surprised however that Jame's score is so low, because I think that he is one of the better and more interesting writers on the site. In most cases low scores are obviously deserved but in this case I can't understand it either. Perhaps if we all gave James some upvotes his score will go up. I have upvoted some of his articles.

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      SmartAndFun-- You make a great point: If the Hubber Score is meaningless, why do they exist?! Well said! Thanks.

  12. EmpressFelicity profile image83
    EmpressFelicityposted 3 years ago

    I'm with Smart and Fun - if HubberScore doesn't mean anything, why not just get rid of it? That said, 61 does seem weirdly low for someone who has been here for so long and got so many views/comments.

    James, if it's not a rude question (and feel free to tell me to MYOB), what percentage of your hubs have been idled?

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Empress Felicity-- Not at all a rude question. I have only had maybe a dozen Hubs idled out of 285.  Not long ago I cut 100 of my Hubs, the ones with the lowest scores and/or fewest visitors lately, in the hopes my Hubber Score would go up but it did not budge.

      1. EmpressFelicity profile image83
        EmpressFelicityposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        So it gets weirder and weirder. You're not a spam follower, you haven't been publishing hubs "unnaturally fast", and your hubs are getting enough views not to have been idled, for the most part. Which, according to Simone's summary, only leaves the possibility that your hubs have been graded as mediocre or poor by the MTurk raters.

        1. Will Apse profile image89
          Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          If you read James' replies you will see that there are a lot of other possibilities. Apparently, he was following a number of hubbers who were banned. He has also had pages unpublished, probably for 'content violations'. At least two of his more popular pages were disappeared recently 'Sexual Revolution' and 'Black Men with White Women' (or titles thereabouts).

          1. James A Watkins profile image91
            James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Will— Just for the record, any Hubs of mine that are unpublished were unpublished by me recently and totally voluntarily. The two you mentioned were among the dozen of my Hubs that were "demonetized" and I deleted all of those, thinking maybe my Hubber Score would go up (in case having demonetized Hubs negatively affects HubberScore)  but alas, it did not. I also deleted about 90 other Hubs on my own, the ones with the lowest pageviews or lowest HubScores, hoping that would raise my HubberScore but it did not. I still have 183 published. None have been unpublished by HubPages Staff.

        2. James A Watkins profile image91
          James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          My Hub Scores are fine. My lowest Hub Score is 70 and my average Hub Score in the 80s--the same as it was when my Hubber Score was 100!

          By the way, what does MTURK mean?

          1. EmpressFelicity profile image83
            EmpressFelicityposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            It's short for "Mechanical Turk" - Amazon's version of Elance, O-Desk etc. For a while now, HubPages has been paying MTurk freelance workers to "rate" hubs. Until recently, this rating procedure has been confined to newly-published hubs but it's now being rolled out to hubs that were published before the MTurk rating system was introduced.

            1. James A Watkins profile image91
              James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              EmpressFelicity— Thank you very much for explaining this. I had not heard  of it at all. This could be part of the problem perhaps. I wonder why HubPages would hire MTURKs to "rate" Hubs?

              1. Will Apse profile image89
                Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                You mean there is a possibility that you are not being persecuted by those terrible liberals at HP HQ?

                A few more visits to the forums and learning center might save some pain. At least you would be in better position to form an opinion as to what has happened.

                1. James A Watkins profile image91
                  James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh no. Make no mistake about it, I am being treated unfairly and injustly. And that is especially irksome when the source is Leftists, whose supposed motto is "fairness" and "Social Justice" and "tolerance" and "diversity." Perhaps the MTURKS explain why my Hubber Score dropped all the way to 61 in the last month roughly, but that has nothing to do with the huge drop overnight a long time ago that never bounced back. Anybody can be as smug about it as they want but I'll bet if some of you got up tomorrow and saw your 94 had turned into a 64 overnight you would be upset.

                  1. Kaie Arwen profile image91
                    Kaie Arwenposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Will Apse wrote:
                    You mean there is a possibility that you are not being persecuted by those terrible liberals at HP HQ?

                    A few more visits to the forums and learning center might save some pain. At least you would be in better position to form an opinion as to what has happened.

                    Mr. Apse,

                    In three years I have never posted to a forum (although I did ask three questions three days ago), but in this case I think you should step back and think about what you say...... the forum should always be a last resort for those addressing concerns, and in this case.... it was. Administration was the first step (many, many moons ago) and later (a few months back) one of the owners. This thread was begun in response to a lack of action, period.

                    There are a number of fantastic writers here at Hubpages, and Jim is one of them. Maybe you should read through The Gypsies or Vietnam before making judgments about him as an author. Unfortunately, many of what I consider his best articles were removed in an effort to figure out if they were affecting his score because they no longer pulled in as many views. That was obviously not the answer, but judging by the increase in his author score...... maybe beginning this FORUM was. (Not for me though...... I dropped 6 points for asking three questions; by tomorrow, I should be an "80."

                    None-the-less, it is important for the contributors on this site to be supportive of each other. Administrators, editors, quality control; they all need to do their jobs in order to make sure that things like this do NOT happen and are not repeated once brought to their attention. Possibly, you should consider that this might never happen to you solely because of this thread. Maybe, you should be saying "thank you" instead of schooling your fellow Hubbers on how opinions should be formed.

                    How or why someone's Author score drops 30 to 40 points and stays there when their stats and work are far above and beyond the standard is an issue...... unfortunately, we will never be apprised of exactly what compiling that score entails. What I do know is that nit-picking and insults between contributors solve nothing (I've read each and every prior post)and insulting a fine writer because he has had the where-with-all to publicly put his own ego on the line and ask the question is ridiculous. That said...... it's also great to see that support within the community........far outweighs the negativity.

              2. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Off topic a little, but HP is trying hard to clean up the trash that is and has been published on HP.

                With over a million hubs to check and rate, HP simply does not have the personnel to do it themselves.  The answer was to set up an MTurk rating system and pay others to do it.  It is apparently quite difficult to get by stringent HP requirements and testing to become an effective rater, but the system does work and is being used.  It started out only being applied to newly published works, but is now being used to through the enormous backlog of older hubs as well.

                There is considerably more information in the learning center and the HP blog on this; recommend that you check it out as it will likely affect you along with every other writer on the site.

  13. WriteAngled profile image92
    WriteAngledposted 3 years ago

    I wish this stupid score would just die a death.

    Given all the other factors involved, it has minimal relevance with respect to the quality of someone's writing.

    Furthermore, rewarding forum activity in the score only encourages the trite and empty comments one sees here with monotonous frequency, which so often are made by those who do not have the first idea about how to write a coherent article.

    1. GA Anderson profile image85
      GA Andersonposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      http://s3.hubimg.com/u/7857050_f248.jpg

      I resemble that remark!
      Sometimes trite and empty are all that's left at the end of the day. (or appropriate for the comment being responded to)

      GA smile

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      WriteAngled-- I am with you. I would like to see the Hubber Score eliminated, especially if it is based on whims of the HubPages Staff that completely ignore sound statistics, as mine is.

      1. Uninvited Writer profile image83
        Uninvited Writerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I doubt it is based on whims or personal feelings.

        1. James A Watkins profile image91
          James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Well, the claim is that the Hubber Score is 100% mechanical, automated, unaffected by human hands, set up in the beginning without knowing who it would help or hurt, as the Rule of Law should be. And I believe there is an algorithm. But I am also positive that a subjective human hand is in play. So, my Hubber Score might be set at "algorithm minus 30 points" for instance, the "minus 30 points" being implemented by a person with an agenda.

          1. Laura Schneider profile image92
            Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            **************I think there's only one logical thing we can do to help, as a whole group of us in this thread, to put an end to the idea that the scores are NOT being manipulated, when so obviously James's are: we all need to go out to James's articles, read every one of them start to finish (as many as we can, anyway) and vote them up highly, click on positive feedback icons, and leave good feedback comments, and send him fan mail. If we ALL do this, there's NO defense for the idea that the hubber score is automatically calculated based on the quality of the work. But, we've ALL got to do it to make an impact that's irrefutable, right? Is anyone with me on this??  *****************

            1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
              Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              How about you start with me?

              I am closer to 100 so it will be an easier task.

              THEN, when you guys have all helped me out you can move onto James.  Obviously I can't help out because I am too busy.

              1. Laura Schneider profile image92
                Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                No, we start with James since it is he that brought this to our attention and he that has the most to gain by increasing his score/most to lose by not increasing it!

                1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
                  Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  How about practice on me first to see if it works?  I can report back each week, if I am not too busy, or you can just check my profile.

                  Once you have figured out how to get me to a 100 then you will be in a better position to help James.  After all he has been through it would be a pity to raise his hopes without proof.

                  I only suggest this as a way to trial run the theory, not for myself.

            2. Laura Schneider profile image92
              Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Note: I'm actually suggesting that we all do this as much as possible tonight and tomorrow, perhaps. Only a very short timeframe. We can use different browsers and search engines and computers to read the same articles but look like someone/something else. Sign in once, sign out and repeat. That should make the score go up, too. (I refuse to use Bing, though, sorry--gotta draw the line somewhere). 8-\

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Not sure I'm understanding your request.  Hubbers have been crying for a year or more for HP to get rid of the trash here (and no, I'm not saying James's hubs are trash) and when they get a program in operation to do that you want everyone to get together and game the system?  To throw a monkey wrench into the gears to try and stop it?  You're really asking everyone to work in unison to defeat the algorithm that the host of your hubs has put together to improve the site and earn us all more?

                No, thank you - I'll abstain.

                1. Laura Schneider profile image92
                  Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Just for James, just this once, since his hub scores and actions clearly don't reflect his hubber score. We can't defeat the algorithm, but we can trick it if we pool our resources and focus them on this one hubber who brought it to our attention that such a low score was possible given the circumstances. If the algorithm is honest, his score will rise. If not, it won't--and that concerns ALL of us--affects what we all get for income.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Uh huh.  Just this once.  Until someone else has their score fall or have a hub unpublished. 

                    I have no idea what has happened to his score, and neither does he.  Or you.  I will say that I do not believe for one moment that someone has taken it upon themselves to reprogram just to slap James for being a Christian; this is a problem with the algorithm, if there is a problem at all.  If there is a problem with the algorithm, best leave it alone until HP can investigate it and find the problem. 

                    Go in and game the system and you'll make it 10 times as difficult to find what caused it, leaving someone else open to the glitch if there is one.

                2. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  A bit dramatic eh, Wilderness?  What does getting rid of trash have to do with one's profile score?  And who's to say everyone wanted this particular program?   hmm

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    You mean you haven't heard that revamping the hubber score is a part of the QAP?  I'd have to doubt that.

                    You're one of the ones crying to get rid of the trash as well, and have made an enormous point that it wasn't done 5 years ago.  Well, it's being done the best way they know how.  Whether you like the QAP or not, they're trying.  Don't complain.

              2. Laura Schneider profile image92
                Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Deafening silence. Look, James is a victim here, but who knows how many of the rest of us are or could/will be tomorrow or next month, too? He brought it to our attention and that helps the whole community. Let's try to solve this mystery/injustice decisively by taking action right away to attempt to prove it right or wrong. If we're all reading and the score's not budging, then there's a problem. If we're all reading and the score's moving up, then it was a fluke of some mathematical algorithm we'll never be able to figure out. I betcha my score hits 60 by tomorrow, too, just for suggesting deliberately rigging the game. Standing by and doing nothing is in nobody's best interest. With James's score so low, the changes (or lack thereof) will appear most visibly and decisively. Plus it's only fair to help him out.

                1. James A Watkins profile image91
                  James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Thank you Laura for caring and empathizing and sympathizing. I am glad you liked my Burke quote. Here is another quote to chew on:

                  First they came for the communists,
                  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

                  Then they came for the socialists,
                  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

                  Then they came for the trade unionists,
                  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

                  Then they came for the Jews,
                  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

                  Then they came for the Catholics,
                  and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.

                  Then they came for me,
                  and there was no one left to speak for me.

                  1. Laura Schneider profile image92
                    Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    Let's hope that's not the case here!

                    Seriously, though: something's up with your situation, James, and it's not smelling very good to me. We'll see what everyone else's scores do over the next few days... I'm still standing by to storm the castle, though, because I think there might be trouble in the ivory tower. Certainly it could be haunted, but more than likely you're NOT the only victim of it. Other people just haven't been as savvy as you at catching on to what's up. (another -3 points from Laura's score).

            3. rebekahELLE profile image91
              rebekahELLEposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Laura, in all due respect, this is not logical what you are suggesting.  Any unusual activity on an account is going to raise a red flag.  I doubt very much if James wants mass HP traffic in an attempt to raise his hubber score.  Nor do I think that his account is being targeted by HP staff for his beliefs.  He has brought it to the community and I'm sure HP is taking a closer look at his account.

              1. Laura Schneider profile image92
                Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                rebekahELLE, you and Wilderness are hopefully and probably right. I am just old and cynical beyond my years. And I hate seeing someone being treated unfairly, whether deliberately or no: I'm always the sucker for the underdog. :-)

  14. rebekahELLE profile image91
    rebekahELLEposted 3 years ago

    Maybe he dropped too many followers at once?  Whatever the reasons, James is a very good writer (even though we disagree on many topics smile) and crafts hubs that read well.  I know he puts a lot of time and research into his hubs.  It hardly seems right that he currently has a 61 hubber score.  It sounds like the 'spam' penalty hit him hard, unfairly.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      rebekahElle-- Thank you for your gracious words. My most popular Hub was shut off one day about a year and a half ago because of comments made by a visitor from outside HubPages. I was assured that there was nothing wrong with the Hub itself. I deleted the offending comments and my Hub was turned back on BUT it was demonetized--and it was bringing in half my revenue all by itself. I complained about it being demonetized and the very next day my Hubber Score had dropped from 97 to 77, never to rise above 80 again--and it had not been below 90, even for a moment, since I was a newbie.

  15. Dale Hyde profile image87
    Dale Hydeposted 3 years ago

    The scoring may be automatic as stated, but I do know this is the lowest I have been, 84 for the moment.

    Reasons I feel for my lower score, in my opinion?

    I have moved all my idled hubs to my "other" location.

    New material I have written does not get submitted here, but goes to my "other" location.

    I disagree many times with what staff is saying or what is happening. (ie., my ONLY Exclusive title being idled sometime back which was reviewed by staff and they could not find the reason why it was.)

    My expectations are too high for what to expect from a site like HP for honest and precise answers to issues raised in forums or in message.

    I no longer use the hubhopper as that seems useless.

    I rarely post in forums anymore because of the sarcasm one encounters.

    I reckon I could go on, but that should be enough.  It does bother me that anything to do with me would be graded in regards to my activity with the community or on the site.  I did not join HP to be social.  Now that it is mainly a social site, I can see how I would be penalized here.

    I write material, get comments and respond to comments always.  That should be all that matters as long as my material is "okay".....and from community members as well as staff, my material is okay with content and such.  Yet....and yes, again I mention it.  I get hubs idled on a weekly basis.  Down to 90 from like 140 overall. smile

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Mr. Hyde-- I just want to say that I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this issue. And I agree with you. Is it too much to ask for HubPages to be HONEST with us, with me?  Why not just say, we do not want anyone writing on our site who writes opinions we do not agree with--especially if they present an airtight case that makes our editorial worldview look not only foolish but sinister and dangerous?

  16. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    When I click on that link, I get this: 

    404.  That page doesn't exist. 

    What is going on??

  17. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago

    My Hubber Score used to consistently hang around 97. There were even a few times where I got to be a brief member of the 100 club. These days seems like I'm a consistent 91. I'm starting to wonder if it is because the Mturks are picking on my older hubs. big_smile

    Btw, I noticed that you don't have any of the discretionary "Good Citizen" accolades that most of the rest of us have. That is indeed kind of odd. Maybe go check those out and do what they say. Maybe also delete your 10 lowest-scoring hubs that are getting zero traffic and in which you have already lost all hope for anyway.

    Just some thoughts. I hope your score turns around. smile

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      paradigmsearch--- I sincerely appreciate your most excellent advice. I did in fact delete my weakest Hubs--100 of them (out of 285) but alas, my Hubber Score did not budge.  Thank you for the insightful thoughts about the "good citizen accolades." I once had all of those I think.  As far as Accolades from readers go, I have 1856 Usefuls; 304 Funnys; 1893 Awesomes; 953 Beautifuls; and 1145 Interestings. I am sure somebody has more but I can't say I would know whom that might be.

  18. seanorjohn profile image81
    seanorjohnposted 3 years ago

    James, I believe you are a victim of your own success.With nearly 2 million views you are presumably getting regular payouts. Hubpages must much prefer hubbers like me who don,t reach payout.100 Hubbers like me who earn say £15 a year will reward Hubpages with 100 x £15 approx. without paying out a cent.( I forget whether Hubpages get 40 0r 60%)

    I know you are a great writer and your Hubber score is not just a mystery: it is an outrage.Hope this gets sorted.Every single response to this post supports this view.

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Hold the phone... so there is a chance we aren't getting paid this money that's accruing? I assumed once I hit $10, in 2045, that I would get my $10. sad

      1. seanorjohn profile image81
        seanorjohnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Sadly, that is true Beth. But your great Grandchildren could benefit. Update your will now. I have.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Let them make their own money... Ill be dead by the time they're around. I want my 10 quid!

    2. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Deleted

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Sh*t! I can't even use pounds or quid here. I'm screwed.

        1. seanorjohn profile image81
          seanorjohnposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Yes Will but 100,000 accounts like this weill rake in a million pounds with nothing to payout.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Im Beth. sad

    3. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      seanorjohn--- Thank you, my friend, for commiserating with my outrage. I never thought of in the perspective you expressed. hmmm . . .

  19. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    I scrolled through the list of writers I am following, and I "unfollowed" if they weren't active.  One guy joined two years ago and followed me, so I followed him back to encourage him, and after two years, he still had not written a hub. 

    Yet his score is 76. 

    I am so confused.

    1. paradigmsearch profile image90
      paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I just dropped by both places where the folks I'm following are listed. Neither location includes Hubber Scores anymore! I wonder how long that has been like that? Now we have to go directly to their profile to see.

      1. Silva Hayes profile image94
        Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Right.  The list only showed when their last hub was published.  I had to go directly to their profile to see how many hubs (if any) they had written.

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Silva Hayes-- Right!! A guy who has never published a Hub is a 76 AUTHOR but a guy who has published 285 Hubs, read by 1.5 million people, who has logged perhaps ten thousand hours as a Hubber is a 61. sad

      1. Laura Schneider profile image92
        Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I've seen that same situation many times!!! (no hubs but 70+ hubber score).
        Gotta say it again: I'd be surprised if James were the only victim (or benefactor?) of this monkey business. James' extreme case and willingness to speak out about it is simply the way we found out something's rotten in Denmark.

  20. paradigmsearch profile image90
    paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago

    With sincere regret, I just un-followed a very nice person who has been here 5 months, has a Hubber Score of 65, and zero hubs. sad

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You could follow me instead. I have a thousand hubs and a score of 100... (Don't look at my pic.)

      1. paradigmsearch profile image90
        paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Well, you don't look like somebody that will be getting themselves banned anytime soon. And you are fun to watch. OK.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          aw, backatcha.

          1. paradigmsearch profile image90
            paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            And now both our Hubber Scores shall drop to 61. big_smile

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              So worth it. lol

  21. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    This situation must be due to a computer glitch; could there be a programming error that caused this drop in James's hub score?

    1. Laura Schneider profile image92
      Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      There can always be a programming error (I've worked in software documentation for about 20 years). But, if there is a programming error it is affecting more people than just James, we just don't know it.

  22. Gypsy Rose Lee profile image57
    Gypsy Rose Leeposted 3 years ago

    James you deserve to be on top and to stay on top. All of your hubs have been just fascinating and awesome. Never could figure out the what I call HubPage score yo-yo.Mine is here, there and everywhere. Hope you get it all straightened out.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you very much, Gypsy Rose Lee. I appreciate your affirmation and support.

  23. Horatio Plot profile image85
    Horatio Plotposted 3 years ago

    Ho, Humm. HubPages is so wonderfully inconsistent sometimes that it is simply frightening.

    On the one hand Simone says earlier in this thread that the best thing James can do is to simply ignore it.

    Her reply is given as a response to Uninvited Writer's comment:
    "Sorry to hear that, but the score doesn't really mean anything."

    And Simone's response is:
    "I second that."
    She then tells James not to worry and that his Hubber Score should improve on its own.

    Huh?

    You see on the other hand, here is a quote from Simone's Blogpost reply, made only 2 days ago to the question, "Does Google care about HubScores or Hubber Scores?"

    Answer:
    "Google does not care about Hubber Scores or HubScores, but it does care about quality, and HubScores and Hubber Scores are a reflection of that.
    What’s more, HubScores and Hubber Scores affect a Hub’s placement within our internal link structure in ways that Google is liable to notice, so while these scores are not something Google explicitly ‘reads’, they are tied to factors that matter to Google’s search algorithms."

    So they do matter then. Or not?

    If a long term successful Hubber has a problem that they feel strongly enough about to air publicly why is the reaction not to investigate? And why does the advice given contradict advice found elsewhere?

    Why not look into it? For it is obviously not right. Ask some people some questions Simone, or get some of those newly appointed "Content Quality Specialists" to do the donkey work and get some answers from the software boffins. And don't be put off when the software boffins shrug and say, "that's just the way it is". Hang on in there like a Rottweiler and bite it out of them.

    For there is something terribly wrong here Simone, and the longer all that the community can smell is the injustice of the situation without seeing that you are looking into the problem, then the more likely it is that what is probably just a little local admin difficulty will grow into a conspiracy theory.

    After all, it's not possible that James is being silenced for his religious and political views, is it?

    1. Phyllis Doyle profile image94
      Phyllis Doyleposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I am beginning to think that hub scores and hubber scores should just be dropped. A hub shows quality and success by the comments received. A hubber shows creative talent and the ability to write quality articles by readers and their comments. Why must we have confusion, mix ups, contradictory statements and ignoring from management? Google will rate our hubs and this shows up in SEO.  So, why does HP have to do rate us and cause all this stress?

      I do feel that each hub should go through a screening process before it is published -- and a quality team of experts review hubs for content, duplications, proper language structure, spelling, etc. I know that would take time and a lot of effort, but other sites do this and it creates a high quality site with writers of expertise and high caliber that readers want to see more of.  I have seen some hubs of very low quality with wrong spelling or wrong words used (their, there, they're), poor sentence structure, erroneous information, even advice that is dangerous to one's health. (ie: putting raw egg white on the skin can be dangerous, even fatal, if there is an open wound or even a scratch on the skin -- look it up on Snopes).

      We volunteer our time and creativity to make HP a quality site and this is the kind of stuff we get in return?

      James Watkins is a writer of high caliber and his scores should reflect that.

      1. James A Watkins profile image91
        James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you very much, Phyllis, for your kind comments about my writing. I do agree with you that there is some crummy writing on HubPages. In fact, the other day I saw a person with a Hubber Score of 90 who misspelled a word IN THE TITLE of her Hub.  My goodness. :-)

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Apparently you are being charged with causing your own low score by the HP apologists, James.  They haven't really come up with a viable reason so far though.  They seem to think HP is never at fault in these type glitches.  Just wait till it affects one of them in a bad manner!  roll

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I much prefer the theory that the staff called a special meeting specifically to decide to lower some random writer's hubber score for no particular reason.

            Oh, but it's because he's a Christian.

            Yet other people who write Conservative Christian hubs are doing just fine.

            So far, on these forums I've heard that people were being punished because they were liberal and then those who were punished because they were conservative.  I've seen people say their hub score fell because they visited and commented on someone's hub.

            In general, it's egotistical... sometimes to the point of delusion... to believe that you are important enough that anyone at HP would even bother to take time out of their day to think about you... implying that they would take time away from business to hunt you down and punish you is laughable.

            Especially since if they cared about you enough to do all that, they could simply ban you. 

            Tin foil and persecution complexes for everyone!  HP HQ is apparently rivaled only by the CIA.  They shot Kennedy and sunk the Mary Celeste as well.

            I also see it as a reflection on the personality of some posters... If you honestly believe there are people petty enough to put such thought into an act against you, then it really is a reflection of your own willingness to do the same if you were in that position.

            Your average person?  Yeah, they simply don't care enough to chase down people and mess with them for obscure reasons.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Well if they lowered our scores all at one time Melissa, that would look a little shifty, don't you think?

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I never thought of that Beth...

                I see it now, each week they are going to pick a hubber at random and lower their hubber score... in just 125,992 weeks we will all be burdened with a low score that affects absolutely nothing except our ability to artificially inflate the rankings of other unrelated sites.

                Holy crap.

                I've only got 2422 years to find a new place for that one backlink.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  By then I will be a hugely famous author and wont have time for the likes of any of you.

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    If averages hold up for me, by that time I will have 328 children.  So I won't have time for you all either.

            2. James A Watkins profile image91
              James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Nasty. No one likes to be publicly insulted and that is what has taken place. You are wrong, I would never do this to someone else. If I had a problem with someone I would address them directly. I would never press my thumb down on their Author rating to make them look bad.  Maybe you think that way but I don not.  I told you already that one of the Founders of HubPages admitted to me 2 months ago that there was a double secret penalty on my Hubber Score. All your penny psychology doesn't work in this case. I am a statistician. There is no way an algorithm could have caused this on its own. Based on what? I gave you all the stats right in the beginning.  My stats tower above many others who are in the 90s for their Author Score. My Hubs are as good as any on this entire site. You have no call to be rude to me. I have never been nasty to you. HubPages Staff wrote to me 2 years ago to say they did not like the comments outsiders were leaving on my Hub. Is that egotistical or delusional or tin foil hattish? How did they find the time to READ the comments to decide they didn't like them if they are to busy to notice insignificant little ole me?

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Horatio Plot— I appreciate your insightful comments. It is quite interesting that you found Simone, a HubPages Staffer, writing a few days ago these words:
      “HubScores and Hubber Scores affect a Hub’s placement within our internal link structure in ways that Google is liable to notice, so while these scores are not something Google explicitly ‘reads’, they are tied to factors that matter to Google’s search algorithms."
      You also wrote: “If a long term successful Hubber has a problem that they feel strongly enough about to air publicly” to which I want to add that I held my tongue for a year waiting for this to change and tried everything I could to rectify the situation. The last thing I did before going public this way was write to one of the founders of HubPages, in February, to let him know what one of his employees had done. He admitted to me that a HubPages Staff member put a penalty on my account that affected my Hubber Score negatively—that he promised he had removed for me. Keep in mind a lower level Staff Member had told me that there was no way an employee could possibly affect my Hubber Score even if they wanted to—it is all automatic. When I asked what the penalty was for, I was told it was for following too many Hubbers that were subsequently banned. That frankly made no sense to me but I was happy that my score would soon be back up above 95 as it had been for 700 straight days before this problem developed. But it did not go up—it went down!!!
      Ps: You mentioned “those newly appointed "Content Quality Specialists".” What is that?
      Thank you!
      James

      1. Horatio Plot profile image85
        Horatio Plotposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Hi James,
        In answer to your question;
        http://hubpages.com/about/team
        At the bottom of the page there are now an editor and 3 Content Quality Specialists listed. All are, I believe, new posts. I think this may be a good thing. I hope they are there to help push HubPages toward the green and pleasant grassy uplands of hope and Googleness that lie on the other side of the thick, slimy sea of trash and Indian Aunties that block the way.
        I do however note that Derek Gulbranson is no longer listed. I hope that is apropos of nothing as he seemed a good, honest addition to the team. Hum.

        1. James A Watkins profile image91
          James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you very much for this answer.

    3. Laura Schneider profile image92
      Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      From what Simone has said in various places, I gather that all the scores matter. The only time she has said they don't is when someone questions how they are calculated or why theirs are not as high as expected/not as high as someone else's (who may have written 0 hubs in 3 years).

  24. donotfear profile image89
    donotfearposted 3 years ago

    I started following this thread and find it .........odd.  I'm wondering if James's earnings has been affected by this sudden drop a year ago.  That would significantly raise a flag for me.  I pray this is resolved soon.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      do not fear— My earnings did drop by about 33% down to $100 a month.

  25. seanorjohn profile image81
    seanorjohnposted 3 years ago

    I bet all of us on this thread will have a lower score tomorrow. Let's see.

    1. Laura Schneider profile image92
      Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Oh, yeah, but only by a tiny bit. Anyone else?

      1. wilderness profile image96
        wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yep - dropped 2 points and gained back one.

  26. Bibowen profile image90
    Bibowenposted 3 years ago

    James, sorry this is happening. I don't get the "ignoring the score" advice. If Hubpages is going to assign a composite score, it should mean something. When people see your score, they are getting the wrong idea about your work and your contribution to Hubpages. Of course, people in the Hubpages community that know your work know better, but many do not.  It's flip to be told "forget it; don't worry about it." I hope it's worked out in your favor and worked out soon.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Bibowen— Thank you very much for your nice note to me. You wrote:
      "If Hubpages is going to assign a composite score, it should mean something. When people see your score, they are getting the wrong idea about your work and your contribution to Hubpages."

      My thoughts exactly. I sure appreciate your kind words.

  27. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 3 years ago

    This thread would interest anyone studying mass hysteria.

    The real issue appears to be about content violations and the effect that it has on hubber score but it is not addressed.

    If it is about content violations (and James has provided incomplete evidence so it is hard to be absolutely sure) a few of the questions are:

    Should content violations feed into Hubscores?

    Who decides what content is acceptable? I am guessing HP is happy to act as censor for Google, which is happy to act as censor for it's advertisers.

    Should anyone be penalized for following banned hubbers? This sounds like guilt by association and downright wrong.

    That sort of thing...

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      What kind of content violations are you speaking of, Will?

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        That is a good question. James originally told us about a couple of interactions with HP staff concerning penalties which the staff promised would be lifted. The staff also assured him that his hubscore would rise again, eventually.

        That was in the first post in this thread (which has now disappeared).

        The reposted version omits a few points or at the very least changes the wording. This is why I think the evidence is unreliable. At the same time content violation looks like the culprit, as far as his low score is concerned.

        Is it fair? Who knows...

        1. James A Watkins profile image91
          James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Will— Just to clarify, my original post disappeared, which is quite irregular—that ought to tell you something; but I reposted it EXACTLY WORD FOR WORD. There is not a word missing and no words were changed, contrary to the reportage of some. I cut and pasted my original; I did not change a word of it.

    2. EmpressFelicity profile image83
      EmpressFelicityposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      If HP really is penalising people for following banned hubbers, then yes, that is unfair.

      With regard to content violations: once the content in question has been unpublished, you'd expect someone's hubberscore to go back up fairly quickly. Another thing: the timescale between someone's content being found offensive and said content being unpublished is (you would think) pretty short. James' hubberscore has been low for a long time now. So that explanation doesn't fly either, in my opinion - especially as he's told us his individual hubs all have high scores.

      Calling out inconsistencies does not mass hysteria make.

      1. James A Watkins profile image91
        James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        EmpressFelicity-- Thank you so much for all that you said. It seems to me so simple. HubPages should be honest and declare: "We made a mistake and unfairly penalized your Hubber Score by 30 points. We are sorry and ask your forgiveness. We have reprimanded the employee who did this to you, and your Hubber Score is now a 99, as it should be."
        OR: "We are sorry. Our software had a glitch in it that you were kind enough to point out to us. We have fixed the problem and now your Hubber Score is a 99, as it usually was before this glitch happened."
        OR: "It is true we lowered your Hubber Score by 30 points. Because we don't like you and we don't like your views.  There. We are not ashamed to admit it. Please take your articles elsewhere."

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          You are super serious about your hub score.

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Obviously.

          2. Silva Hayes profile image94
            Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            As I posted just a few message up, Hubpages has made this statement:  “When the Hubber score is below 75 all links in all hubs by the author will have nofollow applied (which means no, or very little benefit in search engine rankings).” 

            It makes perfect sense to me that James would be very serious about it, as should we all.  What's the point if none of his writing is recognized by the search engines?  It's like his hard work is disappearing into a black void; it's not being found and read and it greatly affects his income.  And to add insult to injury, it's the same work that, in the past, was recognized as superior!

            1. James A Watkins profile image91
              James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              You expressed that beautifully. Thank you.

    3. Laura Schneider profile image92
      Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Will, I totally agree with your statement, "Should anyone be penalized for following banned hubbers? This sounds like guilt by association and downright wrong." Besides, other than (as someone else mentioned here)  clicking on every single person you're following regularly to make sure that they're not banned is so completely impractical and counter-productive for HP--wouldn't they rather have us creating content they can earn money on?

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The problem is there's only James' word that following banned hubbers is a problem, as far as I know.

        And James lives in a world where HP have already come for the communists and the catholics.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Just curious, do you have that saying in the UK... 'a dog with a bone'?

          1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
            MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Lots of dogs with lots of bones around here.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Im not allowed to say anything. I keep getting banned at the drop of a hat.

              1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I plan my bannings for days I'm not going to be online anyway.

                I store up all my non-sense and personal attacks for the day before.

                1. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  That's genius.

                2. Laura Schneider profile image92
                  Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Haha, I'll have to remember that trick, Melissa!

                  I just spout off whatever I honestly think whenever I think it. Hopefully I'm factual or I don't say anything. I've never been banned, and I hope I never am. (And I hope I never do/say anything to deserve it, either!)

                  1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                    MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I've been banned twice- I think.  Both times I knew I was going to be when my fingers hit the keyboard.

                    I never got upset about it...

                    Maybe I should have came to the forums and complained about how unfair it was... wink

        2. Laura Schneider profile image92
          Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Wait, now, whatever's going on, James seems to be in the right: there's monkey business here related to his hubber score, which they've said will affect our income over time. Don't blame the victim without all the facts, either (like proof he's not a victim).

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            But victim of what? Victim of publishing content that is too controversial for Google ads (what kind of content)? Victim of associating with dubious hubbers (dubious how?). Victim of ignorance? (what rules, guidelines was he ignorant of?) Victim of delusions of grandeur? (Burke and Martin Niemoller, for heaven's sake).

            This is too tempting a microcosm with too many ironies. I remember reading a few of James' pages a couple of years ago. One of his big things is the evil of minorities that have a sense of entitlement. Yet here he is posing as a persecuted minority (then they came for the white male christian conservatives) and demanding HP bend their algo to suit his sense of what he is owed.

  28. janderson99 profile image85
    janderson99posted 3 years ago

    Down, Down - They are all Going Down - even the Elite 100 club - very rare species now - check a few profiles (even Simone, Jmmythejock, Relache, Kathryn Vercillo, Lela Davidson, etc. all plunged ).
    We have all been bad, very bad indeed! 
    See the former 100 club glory here:
    www.hubpages.com/hubs/best
    Go to the profiles => most down. Ho Hum, What a Bum
    PS Chuck is the only 100 that has survived!

  29. habee profile image91
    habeeposted 3 years ago

    I've never been able to figure out how the score is tabulated, and I guess I'm not alone in the confusion.

    James, for what it's worth, I've always enjoyed your hubs!

    1. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I don't know how you do it, Habee, but you have obviously faked that 100 on your avatar. It never changes!

      1. habee profile image91
        habeeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Lol! Yes, I'm actually a tech wizard. (Great BIG LOL!!)

        It's easy, really. Just print "100" on a white piece of cardboard, hold it up, and have someone take a pic. Use the pic as your HP avatar.

        1. Will Apse profile image89
          Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          They give me 97 for writing about the 10 Best Toasters over and over again (changing the words a little) so I can't begrudge you the 100, faked or real...

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you Miss Habee! I appreciate your concern and empathy. :-)

      1. Laura Schneider profile image92
        Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Keep the faith, James! We'll help you get to the bottom of this or continue to raise such a fuss they've gotta listen--AND ACT.

  30. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 3 years ago

    A few copy and pastes:

    'Down, Down - They are all Going Down'

    'any outfit of young idealists from San Francisco would think it paramount to deal with ALL people with fairness and tolerance, respecting diversity and inclusiveness.'

    'All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.' (I don't think Burke had hubscores in mind)

    'I bet all of us on this thread will have a lower score tomorrow. Let's see.'

    I left out Randy's stuff.

    1. EmpressFelicity profile image83
      EmpressFelicityposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I see you avoided replying to any of the points I made.

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I think we need a proper Hub Commission to get to the bottom of all this. So many allegations. So many insinuations.

        I am saying this mainly because I am now a little drunk and the cat is bullying me. If I can't work out what it wants in the next five minutes the consequences could be terrible.

    2. Mark Ewbie profile image81
      Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      "Burke - hubscores in mind".... gave me a genuine lol.

  31. Kaie Arwen profile image91
    Kaie Arwenposted 3 years ago

    Might I request that the following terms and acronyms be defined?

    Mturker (Mturk)

    automod

    QAP- I'm assuming this is the Hubpages "Quality Assessment Program"......... if so, how has it been implemented and by what standards are scores being appropriated.

    and lastly.......... what makes an individual or even group of Hubs spammy?

    Thank you..........

  32. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    Consider this.  I randomly selected two hubbers that I followed long ago, neither of whom are active at this time, and did a quick comparison. 

    Annabelle74 has a Hubscore of 1.
    Annabelle has written 16 Hubs, has 286 followers, and has 4 accolades.

    Ziad.N has a Hubscore of 67.
    Ziad.N has written 2 Hubs, has 1 follower, and has 1 accolade.

    I wish I had more time to do more random comparisons, but this one, selecting one from the beginning of my list and one from the end of my list, yielded this obvious inconsistency.

    There is a BUG in the system.  I hope it can be located and corrected.

  33. SmartAndFun profile image92
    SmartAndFunposted 3 years ago

    Yes, there is either something buggy or something fishy. No way should Mr. Watkins be a 61. Oh wait, he's now a 62, that lucky guy. Apparently the forum participation he's contributing here with this thread has raised his score!

    Hubber score is very important but it's meaningless even though it drives link placement, promotion and publicity so you really shouldn't worry about it. LOL.

    1. Rosie2010 profile image83
      Rosie2010posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Now at 64!!!  James, do you believe in miracles? big_smile

      1. James A Watkins profile image91
        James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Rosie2010— Yes! I do believe in miracles. Look at me go! My Hubber Score is up to a 70 now, only 6 points below a good friend of mine who hasn't been on the site once for 3 years! :-)

        1. Will Apse profile image89
          Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Supporters obviously matter to you, James.

          I suppose that if you can get a big enough tribe together you won't have to worry about the facts of the case. And we will all remain ignorant of what actually happened.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I thought you guys had already made your minds up and James was at fault?  After all, HP's stats are always right on the money, no glitches, no delays, no errors....simply marvelous!  Oh, wait a minute.....they're not! tongue

  34. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    There are definitely some huge inconsistencies.  Here's another one.  (I hope these writers don't mind my mentioning them; I'm just randomly choosing among people that I follow).

    Both have been inactive recently.  Both are really good writers.  Compare hub scores. 

    Triosol     --     Hub score 1
    Hubs 243
    Followers 968
    Latest hub 2 years ago

    Bail Up!     --     Hub score 93
    Hubs 75
    Followers 877
    Latest hub 16 months ago

  35. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago

    A hub score of 1-5 is not really an inconsistency. That is an account that got slammed for spamming or over-following. Which has nothing to to with their hubs.

  36. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    “The only detail to pay attention on is your Hubscore (a kind of quality score assigned to all accounts). You need to have a quality score of 75 or higher if you want the links inside your hubs to be followed.”

    http://www.dailyblogtips.com/making-mon … -hubpages/

    written by Daniel Scocco, the guy behind DailyBlogTips and online marketing program, OnlineProfits.com.

    If you follow that link, and scroll down to the comments, you will see that one of the comments is from a Hubpage employee who did not correct the statement I quoted above.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I see. Thank you for that information. So the Hubber Score does matter. It matters a lot if you are under 75, where I have been put for most of the last year.

  37. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago

    Reading Simone's post on page 1, I find her response non-committal as far as there being anything done at all in this case.  Perhaps I missed something?

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      If so, so did I.  I have no doubt that someone will take a look at this, but as far as doing something I think no-committal is the best that could be hoped for yet.

    2. Laura Schneider profile image92
      Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps I did, too, then....
      I just tried sending James an email and, after typing around 30 versions of the Captchas provided, it still would not let me email him. Also, the fan mail I sent him was not posted and it has been more than 10 minutes since I submitted it.

      1. Laura Schneider profile image92
        Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Maybe what they need is to implement Bugzilla or another (non-free) bug-tracking system for us to enter bugs in, rather than trying to pick bugs out of running discussions such as this one.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        He may have his contact info turned off and his comments won't show till he approves them, Laura.

        1. Laura Schneider profile image92
          Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Ah--that makes sense. I didn't know that was possible, even. I'll have to set my account up that way. Cheers, Randy!

      3. James A Watkins profile image91
        James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I did not get the email but I did get the Fan Mail and it is much appreciated! big_smile

        James

        1. Laura Schneider profile image92
          Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Good Hubbers deserve justice! You've been dealt an injustice here that's probably also happened to many other good hubbers who have simply not realized it. This should scare all of us.

          Glad you appreciated the fan mail, and I'm enjoying your articles!

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            'You've been dealt an injustice here that's probably also happened to many other good hubbers who have simply not realized it. This should scare all of us.'

            Then they came for the people who make sweeping statements with no evidence.

    3. Laura Schneider profile image92
      Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Re-reading it again, no, you didn't miss anything, Randy. It doesn't sound like this is any important issue to them.

      I just wonder how many other hubbers' scores are incorrectly represented.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        There have been so many stats glitches lately that it's not difficult to suspect other problems may exist also.  I've observed some hokey stuff which only affects some hubbers in my time here, despite the naysayers to the contrary.  All systems have their flaws and HP's is certainly no exception.

        If HP can show James was at fault in some manner, then okay, but they haven't done so thus far.   I tend to take James at his word as I see no reason for him to lie about it.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          But he's not saying it's a glitch...

          He is saying that the man is purposely holding him down...

          That's a bit different.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Several of us has suggested a glitch being the problem, Melissa.  Only James is privy to his conversation with staff and I've never suggested otherwise.  His problem may consist of either or both of these things and only HP knows for sure.  Or doesn't know for sure, as the case may be.  The latter would not surprise me in the least.  cool

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              ... the day you learned to make the guy with the sunglasses...

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I have no problem at all with the glitch theory. HP has glitches... every site does.

              However a glitch isn't a persecution, it doesn't require long "They came for the Jews" statements and it certainly doesn't require a "Stop unfairly, artificially depressing my Hubber Score!" thread.

              He is implying a conspiracy... which is fine I guess... but he's gonna need to give me a better reason than "Because I am Christian" for me to think his claims have any validity at all.

              And even when people truly are out to get somebody (in which they simply could have banned him) there is generally a reason.  So if it is a vendetta (LMAO) then I'm interested in the Why.

              It's like one of my kids failing a test and telling me it's because the teacher hates them...  Yeah, it never works.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                What was I thinking?  I suppose HP wouldn't dare hire any imperfect humans for anything.  Yeah, perfection in everything they do!  lol  Might as well move their headquarters to Disneyland.  roll  I've had dealings with some of their staff before and it was not very satisfying at all as far getting info was concerned.  But you're welcome to your own view of them, of course.  cool

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                  MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  So you honestly believe that his score is being manually altered by a staff with a vendetta for absolutely no reason other than he is a Christian?

                  That's your take on this?

                  And all of my communications with staff have been perfectly fine and all of my questions have been answered... completely and quickly.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    I've never once stated this,have I? 



                    So you assume they treat everyone in the same manner?  lol  Wow!  I had no idea you had so many contentious conversations with the HP staff.  What, may I ask, were your contentions of HP being in the wrong during your communications?  Or were they simply friendly conversations to begin with?  It makes a difference you know!  roll

              2. James A Watkins profile image91
                James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Just for the record, I never said it was a conspiracy and I do not think so. I believe ONE employee did it by him or herself and that a conspiracy does not make. I do not believe any meeting took place. You said you were banned twice. Well, that has never happened to me. How did you get banned: by an algorithm or by a person? You mean a person took such notice of you as to ban you? Twice? If a Staffer can BAN you from the site, they surely can lower your Author Rating. No? Why not? Are you saying they can't or they wouldn't?

      2. janderson99 profile image85
        janderson99posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Laura - Sorry to report that you have been expelled from the 100 CLUB - Even Chuck has gone! A mere 97. I just went up by 2 so look out!
        Cheers,

        1. Laura Schneider profile image92
          Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I know! I saw that (and I've been at 100 for weeks). No surprise to me. Sadly.

          1. Laura Schneider profile image92
            Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Of course, publishing more and chatting less probably will improve my score... Later you guys! Off to publish an article on waterfalls...

  38. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    "Following too many Hubbers who are subsequently banned" makes no sense to me either. 

    How would I have any control over whether or not some other Hubber was banned after I coincidentally began following them?  How would I even know about the ban?  Should I go to my list of people who I am following, and click on each one individually, and see if they are still active or if they are banned?  And if they are banned, then I should unfollow them?  This get curiouser and curiouser.

    1. Peggy W profile image90
      Peggy Wposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I had no idea that if a person was banned that we could be penalized for having followed them.  Guess I better take a look at who I am following!  What has happened to James Watkins's hubber score is a mystery.  He certainly deserves a higher score for well written and well researched hubs.

      Why can't we be notified if a hubber is banned and at some point we followed them?  We are notified if we have linked to one of their hubs and it is now unpublished.  It would seem that since one is done, the other could also be accomplished.  Does anyone else think the same?

      1. Reality Bytes profile image93
        Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Or, if they are banned, HP could just eradicate their followers?

        1. Peggy W profile image90
          Peggy Wposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          That is also a good idea Reality Bytes.   I went in yesterday after reading this hub and unfollowed a bunch of hubbers that had not written anything in 10 months and even longer.  My hubber score rose up by several points from yesterday to today.  Coincidence?  Who knows...

        2. Laura Schneider profile image92
          Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          There you go being logical, Reality Bytes!

  39. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 3 years ago

    By demonetized, I am guessing you mean that there were not considered fitting pages to carry ads which, sadly, in the grossly commercial world that we inhabit means they were not considered fit pages at all.

    I would reccomend some Chomsky, James. He has a lot to say about the pernicious role of advertisers as editors of the media.

    Chomsky probably has something to say about hubscores too.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      The pages remained published but without ads. I found that a pro-life Hub is demonetized while pro-abortion Hubs have ads. Same with other political issues. Anything not politically correct, such as pointing out the true nature of the ACLU, for one example, was demonetized. That only applied to maybe 10 or 12 of my Hubs out of 285. I had no problems except on political Hubs, where if I expressed what would have been the orthodox view for over 1900 years, it was now deemed not fit for ads.

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I was teasing you a little with the Chomsky, but the main point is valid. If you write on Hubpages mods will inevitably have money-making in mind. That means they don't especially want to carry controversial pages with views outside the mainstream because advertisers don't want their products on pages that upset significant numbers of people. This especially applies to pages with any kind of sexual content no matter how proper. We are catering to an audience with significant puritan leanings, after all.

        In fact, if you want to make money you need to write pages that contribute to something, somewhere getting sold. Advertisers want to profit from their ads. Google wants advertisers to profit. HP wants advertisers to profit.

        1. Laura Schneider profile image92
          Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          ...and in turn we want to profit, too. Good points well-expressed, Will!

  40. Silva Hayes profile image94
    Silva Hayesposted 3 years ago

    Referring back to the implication that we shouldn't worry too much about our hubber scores, see the statement quoted below made by a Hubpage staffer.  This was about 5 years ago; I wonder if the policy has changed? 

    “When the Hubber score is below 75 all links in all hubs by the author will have nofollow applied (which means no, or very little benefit in search engine rankings).”  Posted by Pauldeeds

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/2293?page=2#post13688

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Who knows who know?  yikes

  41. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago

    Coincidentally James, your score has went up 7 points already.  yikes

    1. Horatio Plot profile image85
      Horatio Plotposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      ....8 now
      "8 feet high and risin'," - to nick an idea from Johnny Cash. Although I don't think that ended too well if memory serves.

  42. Rosie2010 profile image83
    Rosie2010posted 3 years ago

    James, your hubber score is now 70...  Oh goody!

    http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7866148.jpg

    1. Barbara Kay profile image85
      Barbara Kayposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I've noticed that the writer's Hubscore has more to do with how much they participate in the forums, asking questions and commenting on other hubs.

      The quality of the work of the author seems to have very little to do with it. James has been active in the forum and now his hubscore goes up. Crazy, but I've noticed that is how mine goes up and down.

      1. James A Watkins profile image91
        James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Barbara Kay— Thank you for making that interesting point. I have never been a person much interested in the Forums. If that lowers the Hubber Score, then it only began doing that a year or two ago. This is my point: When my Hubber Score was in the high 90s for many moons I was doing nothing differently from when it was in the 70s. As my first post points out in detail, there is nothing statistically that makes sense for it to be "only algorithms." My statistics are relatively fantastic. And my Hub Scores haven't changed much. Only my Hubber Score, the value assigned to my person, has changed and changed dramatically and negatively.

  43. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago

    I get that everyone wants a score over 75 and this user's should not be this low.

    I also believe the score is fully automatic and nobody can manually "ding" one user for whatever reason.

    So I guess either there is a glitch or something the user is doing in all innocence is getting penalized.

  44. LongTimeMother profile image97
    LongTimeMotherposted 3 years ago

    Hi James. I have read all these posts with interest and looked at your profile page, topics etc. When I finish typing here I will become another genuine new follower.

    I don't know if these observations are helpful, but I have spotted a few 'quotes' that might be setting off alarm bells in an automated scoring system. It could be a case of 'guilty by association' due to your fan mail. For instance ....

    "Hello  I saw your profile and became interested in knowing more about you for a sweet relationship.my name is Anna,I will appreciate if we get acquinted as soon as possible and my e-mail address is ..." She says she loves you (in capital letters!)

    Sweet little Anna has no hubs, but she loves you and has sent an address. lol. Mind you, she only joined 8 days ago - still there might be similar fanmail going back years. I didn't bother reading very far.

    Another contributor to your low score might be people like David, who is also featured on your most recent fanmail page. David says:

    "Dear Friend,  Based on the information and recommendation satisfactorily gathered concerning your personal profile, I hereby wish to acquaint you with a business proposal that will be of benefit to both of us. I represent an heiress family (their father is dead since last year) which would like to invest their treasure in your country in order to invest it in various projects such as in real estate and business."

    David is talking $12 million, James. Perhaps you won't need to make money from HP anymore. lol.

    My hubscore dropped significantly from 99 to I can't remember what, around the same time I received an offer like the one David's presenting to you. I deleted the fanmail and my score started climbing again. Might be coincidence.

    Or perhaps if you read back through your fanmail messages you might find some earlier posts that also contain 'warning words/phrases'.

    Does your wife have love letters and inheritance notices in her fanmail?

    Just a thought. smile

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      LTM, that was so nice of you to go to those lengths for another hubber.

      1. LongTimeMother profile image97
        LongTimeMotherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        lol. I just thought what I saw was interesting and I'd share it. I confess I didn't actually go to any effort to specifically help James. Anyone with that many hubs, followers etc doesn't need my help, that's for sure.

        I'm just cursed with an analytical brain that demands I seek answers to questions. (A bit like some people are cursed with a propensity to ignore facts or turn their backs on challenges. Glad I'm not one of them.) Can't do much about it, despite trying to sit on my hands and do nothing.

        When I noticed his score dropped seemingly inexplicably, it sparked the question, 'Could it be linked to fanmail?' as mine seemed to be. Had to go and have a look. smile

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for these valuable tips. It never occurred to me that what someone wrote in Fan Mail to me could affect my Hubber Score. I guess I have never turned down a single piece of Fan Mail, simply wanting to be polite. As far as I am concerned, if I am to be penalized for what some stranger wrote, all my Fan Mail should be deleted.

      1. LongTimeMother profile image97
        LongTimeMotherposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You might want to check what kind of effect having no fan mail has on your score first though. smile

  45. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 3 years ago

    It really comes down to whether you are interested in establishing the truth of why James' score fell or simply want to get yourself into one tribe or the other.

    Your tribe Randy, is the 'we hate Hubpages'. Writers that Google have stopped loving are the most usual members of this tribe.

    Another tribe seems to be James' tribe of 'lets construct a comfortable history so that we never need feel bad about anything'. You will need to read James' pages to get a sense of what that tribe is really about, although his actions in this thread are a clue.

    Yet another tribe is 'I want to participate in a thread but I don't have a clue about the issues because I hate reading long posts'.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Simone was given ample opportunity to explain why James' profile score was so low, Will.  And my understanding is that James has asked several people on staff about the problem.  I'm of the tribe that thinks if HP doesn't want wild theories floating around it should straighten the problem out themselves.



      Once again I've never stated I hated HP, Will. Just because I want them to deal fairly with the members and writers on here it doesn't mean I detest the site at all. 



      And then there is your tribe, Will.  Pygmies unless I miss my guess.  tongue

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Pygmies seem unusually good-natured people (according to the evidence I'm aware of) so I certainly won't take any offence on that score.

        If you were to accuse me of being less than fair, I would be terribly upset.

    2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
      MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Then there is yet another tribe of people who are just laughing their butts off at the whole thing... for reasons that would be completely incomprehensible to the posters that we are laughing at.

      We don't say anything because causing someone else to go into a spontaneous apoplectic fit is frowned upon by TPTB.

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I'm trying to give up smoking, Melissa, so I need a stress-free diversion. My head seems to be full of bats (something is whooshing around in there).

        Also, I have recently become interested in the way that the internet is contributing to a rise in unreason. It seems to be the main reason that so many people in the US are unable to dismiss the idea that Obama is the antichrist, for example. If enough people write the same nonsense, over and over again, that nonsense somehow becomes true for the average reader.

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Giving up smoking is wicked tough, although honestly I found these forums made it worse when I was trying.

          I think it's more of a factor of people with similar...er...personality issues finding others like them.  In normal society people with those quirks would be regulated by social situations where those quirks would be discouraged by the majority of other people without those quirks. In internet land, those quirks are encouraged, if for no other reason entertainment factor.

          When you are dealing with people who actually know you and care about your happiness, they take you aside and have conversations about these quirks.  They know that in normal human interaction, certain statements and beliefs will interfere with your life.  No such compunction exists in internet communities.

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Well, all I can say is that my bats are amused.

            1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I am very happy for your bats. smile

  46. CASE1WORKER profile image85
    CASE1WORKERposted 3 years ago

    Just got back from my mums and was amazed at this thread- though I don't  always agree with James I do think he does produce thought provoking, informative and enjoyable hubs. I know he reads other peoples hubs; he has read some of mine and some of my second account Just History and always left kind comments.

    Reading the earlier post from Simone it appears that the advice is not to worry- ignore the hubber score - this is echoed throughout the postings and is something I have often thought and advised.

    The big point...........IF WE ARE ADVISED TO IGNORE THE HUBBER SCORE THEN WHY ON EARTH BOTHER HAVING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you for the excellent points you made and for your gracious compliments on my work. I agree with you; if it doesn't matter, why do we have it?

  47. IzzyM profile image86
    IzzyMposted 3 years ago

    This is true, but then again a hubberscore below 75 means all links are nofollow.

    I have read this thread right through, and think James has a valid complaint. I would be upset if my hubberscore fell so low, and I didn't know why.

    And this is the crux of the matter.

    He doesn't know why, HP staff either don't know or have chosen not to look at his account to tell him why (and fair do's, it's a big account and would take hours).

    I see it has risen 9 points since the thread started, but seems to have stalled again.

    To those who think his re-posted opening post is different to the original, it isn't. It is identical.

    Something is wrong here, and instead of pulling together to help him, the community seems split, which is a shame.

    After all, it could happen to any one of us, especially when we do not know all the factors involved in determining hubscore.

    1. SmartAndFun profile image92
      SmartAndFunposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      +1

      No-follow links are definitely something to worry about. I would be upset if my score went below 75 for this reason.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The HP apologists on this thread would be upset also if their scores fell to such a low number.  Despite their bold words to the contrary.  There are always such folks towing the party line......

        1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
          MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Since I am a "hp apologist" I will respond with: I would absolutely not give one flying fig if my hubber score fell 50 points.

          On my top 100 list of things I give a crap about, my hubber score doesn't even make an appearance.

          Not bold words, I just have more important things to worry about... like the price of tea in China.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Some of us do worry when the links to our hubs are made "no follow" though, Melissa.  Although some hubbers don't get enough traffic to give a "flying fig" as they aren't affected at all.  I assume you are in this group, or are you?

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Write for content rather than for the purpose of pushing another site and it won't matter to you, either.  The tiny bit of SEO juice from links between your hubs isn't worth worrying about.

            2. MelissaBarrett profile image60
              MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I get about 5000-6000 views a month, most of those are search engines.

              If I got 100,000 views a month, I still wouldn't care if my hubber score was 10... and neither does Google.

              I don't care if my backlinks are follow or not, as I'm not trying to artificially raise the seo of another website... even if I were to link to my personal blog I would do it as a way to generate traffic, not a way to raise my blogs search engine ranking.

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Holy cow, you're a rock star. Im lucky if two ppl visit my site a month.

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                  MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL, no Habee is a rock star...  I'm not even a lounge singer.  My hubs are exceptionally niche-y so I'm cool with those numbers smile

              2. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                *gasp*  You're not playing the SEO game?  How can you call yourself a writer with that sorry attitude?  You really, really, need to clean up your act and get with the program, Melissa!

                I'm not either....big_smile

                1. MelissaBarrett profile image60
                  MelissaBarrettposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  LOL, it's that general sense of apathy that comes with prioritizing my life.

                  I will freely admit that if I had to make content writing based on ad revenue my only source of income I might care more...

                  I was just responding to his assumption that all people who are "HP apologists" would somehow be so bent out of shape if it happened to us...  I wouldn't.

                  Of course, if I saw my hubber score drop 20 points, my first assumption would be to assume I screwed up... rather than assuming that someone whom I never met and who likely could not possibly care less about me, took the time to override an automated system to lower a largely meaningless score just to piss me off.
                  Especially when that someone has a couple hundred-thousand other targets.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    smile  Not sure about the prioritizing thing - mostly I'm just lazy, I think.  It's not worth the effort to spend hours each day spreading backlinks.  I've found that putting out a half dozen social links will garner me maybe 20 views, which are gone the next day, never to return.  Not worth it.

          2. donotfear profile image89
            donotfearposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I don't think I'd care either as long as my earnings and hub views were still the same.  I'm more concerned about the dip in traffic...excuse me.....BIG dip in traffic.  If it affected earnings, I'd be really mad....HOWEVER.

            Maybe I'd be insulted if my score went way down.  Who the heck knows?  I could just picture myself, waking up one morning, seeing a 63 and saying "WHAT...the...!!!##$$%#$!  So yeah, I guess I can see why James is discouraged.

        2. Will Apse profile image89
          Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Are you toying with us with the towing? Or is toeing on your mind?

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I suppose since you are not from the US you aren't aware of the difference between the meaning of the two words when used, Will.   Not really surprising.  roll

            1. psycheskinner profile image80
              psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I am not from the US and it seems the use was incorrect (toeing would be correct).  But what does it really matter?

            2. Will Apse profile image89
              Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Nobody 'tows the line', Randy. Try Googling it.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I did, Will.  According to the Cambridge Dictionary the two words can be used for the same meaning as in "toe/towing the line."  I've observed both of them used for the same purpose many times, believe it or not.  Who really cares though?  Are you that nit-picky?  lol

                1. Will Apse profile image89
                  Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I entered 'tow the line' in the Cambridge Dictionary and I was redirected to 'toe the line'. I Googled 'tow the line' and was redirected to 'toe the line'.

                  You can use it if you wish, if you are don't care about the language.

                  It would be an interesting test for the MTurkers. Sort the chaff from the wheels. You don't mind if I say wheels do you? I know you ain't picky.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    No problem, Will.  Just as you used "are don't care" in your last post.  lol  toche'!

    2. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      IzzyM— I thank you for a beautiful post. The Voice of Reason has found us! big_smile
      James

  48. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago

    Some care and some don't.  And instead of implying low traffic you might consider that many (most?) of us are not here to get backlinks.  This entire thread could use a little more focus on the issue and less on the bickering and casting aspersions.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      How good of you to tell us what most of us care about, psycheskinner.  Where did you find this info, by the way?  cool

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I was trying to reflect back to you an assumption similar to your comment about hubscore and low traffic.  If you are offended by it you should see why your own comment had a similar unpleasant quality.

  49. Reality Bytes profile image93
    Reality Bytesposted 3 years ago

    I want my links to have SE juice, not so much for my own content,  but for the related content of others, of which I have used!

  50. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    Ill say this for you James, youve done a remarkable job of rising above the personal attacks. Says a lot about you imo.

    1. James A Watkins profile image91
      James A Watkinsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you Beth.

      1. 58
        whoisitposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Oh yeah, I would have been banned for daring to respond to some of these people.

        1. SomewayOuttaHere profile image61
          SomewayOuttaHereposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          i hear ya....someone did get banned from posting here...forever i hear

          1. habee profile image91
            habeeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Yep. I heard that, too.

 
working