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Petition to HubPages Staff

  1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
    Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago

    Dear Staff:

    First, this is intended to be a request made out of love for this site, and out of respect and regard for our fellow Hubbers.

    Please strongly consider removing the Hubber Score from our profiles.  If you feel it is necessary to have a score for each of us, we feel we have the right for that to be private.  We also feel we have the right to understand how the score is derived, and what we can do to improve it.

    Here are the reasons we feel it would benefit the site to eliminate visible Hubber Scores:

    Even staff members say (repeatedly) to 'ignore' the score.
    There is no clear information what factors go into the score.
    Outside viewers understandably feel the score reflects on our overall quality as writers.
    It is incredibly demoralizing to have this score on our profiles.
    The score creates needless competition and status implications among Hubbers.
    There is no value to the score - none at all.

    And on and on.  We love HubPages, but we feel we have a right to request this counter-productive 'score' to be nuked for all time.

    1. janderson99 profile image85
      janderson99posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      + 1,000,000
      The weird thing is that it's inaccurate and 'just ignore it' but it does affect ranking on the topic pages and 'grace period' + other things (?)

    2. PDXKaraokeGuy profile image83
      PDXKaraokeGuyposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I agree. remove the hubber score

    3. wowtgp profile image60
      wowtgpposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I second that. No one has been able to figure it out yet.

    4. Marisa Wright profile image94
      Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I started a thread about this some time ago. 

      The response from HubPages was that they recognised Hubber Scores were widely misunderstood, but they weren't prepared to remove them until they had something to replace them with.

      http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/107466

      I didn't say so at the time, but I think that's the dumbest piece of "logic" I've heard in a long time.  If you know something isn't achieving its purpose, what's the point of perservering with it, whether you've got something better or not?

      Marcy, I think you're suggesting that Hubber Scores should remain but be private to the Hubber - maybe that's a good compromise and one that HubPages will go for.  I certainly hope so.

    5. Simone Smith profile image92
      Simone Smithposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Noted! I shall be bringing this up in tomorrow's community meeting. smile

      1. 0
        summerberrieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks, Simone:)

    6. bravewarrior profile image94
      bravewarriorposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I agree that the hubscore should be made available only to the hubber.  Also, a detailed explanation as to how the score is calculated would be tremendously helpful.  It seems every time I post a new hub, my score goes down.

      Our scores should not be public knowledge, but may be beneficial to us privately, that is if we knew what the scores indicate!

    7. heidithorne profile image94
      heidithorneposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Wow, lots of convo on this one! Do I think it should be left off of the public viewing, but available to the community? Maybe. Writing is hard enough for some people and this just adds to their anxiety.

      Honestly, I consider this somewhat like the inane Klout scores on Twitter. Metrics by robots, for robots. And truly, the only metrics I'm watching are: traffic and earnings. Everything else is irrelevant.

      Marcy, thanks for caring for the community's feelings!

    8. sleepylog profile image88
      sleepylogposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, hide the hubber score.

    9. tsmog profile image86
      tsmogposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Hello Marcy. I saw this and offered way too much. Yet, It has been shared I should not be silent and just reading the forums. Thus, the reason why I tend not share in the forums will be demonstrated with this treatise for a replay to your proposal. It is a personal view and does  not represent nor imply to represent any others.

      Quoting and offering replies in italics as a free thought exercise seeking learning.

      Dear Staff:

      First, this is intended to be a request made out of love for this site, and out of respect and regard for our fellow Hubbers.

      Please strongly consider removing the Hubber Score from our profiles.  If you feel it is necessary to have a score for each of us, we feel we have the right for that to be private.  We also feel we have the right to understand how the score is derived, and what we can do to improve it.

      Remembering, this a personal view and I offer no ill will only this view may differ with many or not. I disagree with removal of the Hubber Score. Yet, I do not view it as a profile score. I view it as a portfolio score. There may be a difference with definition(s). I lean more toward business than social reflecting on that score.

      I agree with the issue of privacy to the extent of being a personal choice. However, I ask for a definition of public regarding privacy. To me that means public is on the internet and excludes internal usage within the setting of HubPages the entity.

      If I choose to have it displayed it should be available to all internet searches no matter the browser service. If I choose not, then not available to browser searches and internet searches. Que sera sera regarding how those browsers search and seek with crawlers and their programmed sequences.

      I agree with knowing a guideline of the how a Hubber Score is determined, yet make is simple. EX: 50% is determined by overall individual hub performance by some means regarding mechanics like hub score, views, featured, and etc. 15% is social interactions internally at HubPages excluding comments. 15% are comments realizing that may be biased to internal interactions. 20% relates to the big picture of HubPages as a contributing element.


      Here are the reasons we feel it would benefit the site to eliminate visible Hubber Scores:

      Even staff members say (repeatedly) to 'ignore' the score.
      May be as so, yet never once to me. It was shared it is best to view as a portfolio rather than a profile when I inquired in the forums years ago. The score in question is extremely valuable and has worth beyond measure for how I use it for understanding the when of why, and the etc. I use it daily, weekly, and monthly. And, yes I am criticized for doing so. Yet I defer to Mark Twain's quote regarding critics.

      There is no clear information what factors go into the score.
      I am in agreement. I would like a simple 3 - 4 part definition shown somewhere the understanding as suggested above or something similar.

      Or, if I need to be more social, then so be it. If I need to work on the portfolio's overall hub performance not being mechanically correct, then so be it. If that social element is lacking internally, then so be it. If that social is external using comments as that indicator, obvious will be obvious, thus so be it.

      The remaining portion to me means how well the portfolio is  contributing to HubPages the big picture both socially and economically within reasonable parameters with sensibility. Coaching should be offered at that point with the best means for the circumstances with primary focus on HubPages first and hubber second seeking HubPages being successful within its set of competitors.


      Outside viewers understandably feel the score reflects on our overall quality as writers.
      Not sure if I agree or not. The outside viewers I have met in person never mentioned the score. They only mentioned if they like what I wrote about them or not. I giggle sharing that once was the difference between a large pizza or a medium one. Oh well he was an employee with discretion how to spend the slush fund.

      I feel the score represents quality first of the portfolio. Yet, I may be wrong the only place a hubber score now used publicly is with the portfolio? At least from those excursions at the library where I research my portfolio. Great place to get commentary seeking better than with a snapshot view. Most just say whether or not they like the pictures and then question the titles meanings. Remember my titles are generally weird, A reason?


      It is incredibly demoralizing to have this score on our profiles.
      I agree, yet clarify for me it is not a profile, so I like it since I view it as a portfolio

      The score creates needless competition and status implications among Hubbers.

      I agree when it is defined to be such. You either have to eliminate the score all together or change the perspective of its meaning. What ever occurs I am happy. I will still see friends at the library and get their views of how to better the portfolio I seek to create and market. I hope maybe I will get another free pizza too. Maybe a free oil change next. That will help me.

      There is no value to the score - none at all.
      I beg to differ. I think you mean there is not a worth to it. Value is only received with the exchange one worth for another worth at an agreed value. That agreed value is always equal, always at that point of exchange. Worth is the question once that exchange has occurred. So, yes if it is never exchanged there is not a value, yet still has worth.

      EX: The value of a score is just that. It is score. That is its value. Nothing more and nothing less. The question again is worth. That today is objective and subjective. If hubber A says my score is 88 it has no value until hubber B says my score is 89. The value is they are scores. The worth is what those numerical representations offering an objective worth contrasted and compared seeking meaning regarding the "self" with a subjective worth. The objective would be those definitions you seek of how they are determined. The subjective is purely personal until meaning is offered with a social exchange, which does the same thing regarding value and worth.

      Or, the 84 I have today means something different that what most perceive, yet some do have a perspective of. I have been studying the rate of entropy of my portfolio as a whole and those elements within being hubs seeking a compare and contrast with most recent contributions with Free eBooks.

      Next, I will compare to other sets of published hubs that are more traditional or conventional, of which I have measurements for those as a means.

      Or, is the worth of effort to write a Free eBook the same as or different than a hub? I need the Hubber score to accomplish that task. Frankly, if it is eliminated I will develop my own.


      And on and on.  We love HubPages, but we feel we have a right to request this counter-productive 'score' to be nuked for all time.

      I have to giggle I did offer a disclaimer and a warning regarding reading this.

      tim

  2. billybuc profile image87
    billybucposted 3 years ago

    I completely agree with Marcy on this matter.   Although I personally could care less about Hubber scores, I understand that many writers take it seriously and it could and can be damaging to them.

    1. Laura Schneider profile image92
      Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      At first I was excited that the scores might finally go away, but then I was reminded that it affects our earnings and yet we're not told how they're calculated. Doesn't seem like we should sweep this under the rug until we know what we're sweeping there... Might come back to haunt us. Particularly concerning to me is that every time I (or others I'm following) submit new articles to the community, our score drops rather than rises. Say what?? We're increasing the overall value of the site and are punished for it? Bad taste in my mouth, I don't know about you. I love HP, don't get me wrong, but the mysteries should be solved and brought to light. Rapidly fluctuating hub scores and hubber scores tells me the statistics algorithm isn't valid--they're using WAYYYY too small of a sample size when calculating those numbers, from my own experience and from watching and listening to others.

      1. WryLilt profile image87
        WryLiltposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The scores don't effect our earnings.

      2. Marisa Wright profile image94
        Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Scores have nothing, zero, zilch to do with earnings.

        1. janderson99 profile image85
          janderson99posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          They do in this way.
          Hubber score is used to set the grace period.
          A drop in hubber score means more hubs get idled.
          Idled hubs earn less money because they are deindexed.
          This happens to me.

          1. 0
            DigbyAdamsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Absolutely, and from what Paul E. said he views it as a Trust Ranking that people in and out of the community can use to judge us. So I doubt if it's going anywhere. It will matter more and more as QAP gets stronger.

          2. psycheskinner profile image80
            psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Is this explained anywhere?  Because I find it annoying when there are "rules" at work that are not mentioned in the help files...

            1. janderson99 profile image85
              janderson99posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Its a secret.
              Also, hubber score probably affects position on the topic pages as well.

              http://blog.hubpages.com/2013/03/featured-hub-updates/
              ".......Featured Hubs will be given a grace period between 30 days to one year based on Hubber Score"
              and this
              http://blog.hubpages.com/2013/03/featured-hub-updates/

              "What’s more, HubScores and Hubber Scores affect a Hub’s placement within our internal link structure in ways that Google is liable to notice, so while these scores are not something Google explicitly ‘reads’, they are tied to factors that matter to Google’s search algorithms."

              Yeah, Good one!

          3. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            All true, I think, except I'd add that if a hub is idled for a low hubber score it is also because it gets no organic traffic.  Which means no income anyway; any income loss will be minimal.

            1. 0
              DigbyAdamsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Depending on the topic, they could spring to life. Well written seasonal hubs can go up and down. The more time a hub spends up the better in my book. I'm not sure I by the Party Line on all of this.

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I've got one that goes in and out of featured weekly or so.  I don't care - it is written for hubbers and has never gotten organic traffic since even before subdomains went in.

                I've also just now got one that went idle for the first time.  I'm waiting a few days to see if it rises with my hubber score, assuming the score rises, simply out of curiosity.  After that I'll edit it and give it another try but if it doesn't improve it will be deleted.  That one is no good to me if it won't produce some real traffic, and that means google.

                Featured or not, it's old enough it ought to be producing and if I can't make it do that I don't want it around much longer.

              2. Laura Schneider profile image92
                Laura Schneiderposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                I'm with you, Digby Adams. If a hub isn't even available to Google's crawlers, then seasonal and other topical/timely traffic can't see it. For example, various groups have their big annual meetings at various times of the year. Say, a group on bluebird watching and nurturing (obscure topic someone possibly wrote a hub on). Before, during, and after their annual conference they're likely to search for the latest information. That's about a 3 month interval for some groups I belong to. So, point being, if the article is shelved it will miss whatever chance it had to succeed. Note that I'm not favoring keeping badly written articles around, simply those that are seasonal. It's in everyone's interest to write good articles and to help each other to write good articles by privately emailing erroneous authors on the small stuff ("You've got a typo in the title of your recent article on ants") and/or flagging disasters for the moderators to deal with. The higher everyone's score, the higher the site's score, and the more money we all will make (for those interested in profiting off their work). Isn't that how it works?

                1. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Seasonal hubs are treated differently when it comes to idling (unfeaturing) them.  They have much more leeway in traffic requirements in that a bunch of visits in one month will keep them featured much longer than normal.

                  It is also easy enough to keep watch on them, and the expected date of traffic, and edit them slightly so they will return to the featured status.  This becomes a little more difficult, of course, if you have a thousand hubs to watch over.

  3. Barbara Kay profile image84
    Barbara Kayposted 3 years ago

    I agree with Marcy's statements. A year ago my score was 99-100 and look at it now.

  4. carol7777 profile image86
    carol7777posted 3 years ago

    I am in and do not see the purpose of scores that go up and down at will.

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Could we wait a couple of days and then dispose of it? lol

      1. janetwrites profile image83
        janetwritesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Congrats on your 100.

      2. janshares profile image88
        jansharesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        LOL, Congrats, Beth37. Funny.

  5. 0
    DigbyAdamsposted 3 years ago

    It's my understanding that the Hubber Score and the Hub Scores will start to reflect the QAP process. In that way they might be helpful understanding how we're doing. It's already been said that the higher our score, the longer our hubs will have before they're idled. So I would prefer having this bit of information. However, I would like the option to hide it. The same way that we can hide our traffic levels and acolades.

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I have terrible traffic. I really should figure out how to hide it.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image94
      Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed.  If it's intended as feedback to help us improve, then let us see it, but don't force us to advertise it to the world at large.

      1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Exactly, Marisa - and many of the comments on this thread show how the score really does affect interaction among Hubbers.  I'd be fine if the score was available only to us - but even then, give us a foggy idea as to why it may have gone up or down?  Most of us here have had 100 numerous times, including during the current QAP era. Then it goes down - even though we are doing the same things we were before.  So having 100 apparently means nothing.

        When some of the absolute best writers here have plunging scores, for no reason, it's time to get rid of the Public Number That's Meaningless.  Nobody likes to log onto this site and find a number staring at them (and at everybody) that appears to reflect (something? what?), and then be hamstrung as far as trying to change the label.

      2. Millionaire Tips profile image91
        Millionaire Tipsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I'm not sure how much a score is worth when there is no basis of comparison.  Someone in the 60's wouldn't know, for example, that they can get all the way to 100, and that most Hubbers (at least the ones that are in the forums) are above 80.

        When I read a low quality hub, the low Hubber score comforts me in knowing that that hub is likely not featured.

      3. joanveronica profile image91
        joanveronicaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I totally agree, we should be able to use this score as personal feedback, but also be able to hide it from the public! Yay, great idea!

    3. cynthtggt profile image79
      cynthtggtposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with you.  I like to the scores too so I can look at the work of those that are regarded as "great" on Hubpages.  Heh, Marcey, I think you are one of the most talented on these pages and I commend you!  The score reflects, to me, not only the quality of the writing, but also the presentation of the material.  I look at high-scoring hubs, not always for its content (I do read them, don't get me wrong) but for the pictures and photos and the layout.  I look at them often and ask myself, "How did [he] or [she] do that?"  Then I research it on the tutorials - but would I have found it so quickly if I did not see the score?  I doubt it.  It's not like I am going to look at a hub with a score of 54 (unless it's just published) to see how I can better my presentation. 

      I have often seen articles not altogether about subjects I care about, but with presentations that knock my socks off, and it is what grabs the reader into the hub that is just as important I think to Hubpages as the writing itself.  So, I think the scores should stay with the option of removing them if the writer wants to.  And, quite honestly, I think that when someone is a good writer, like a poet or fiction writer, which is what I like to read, a high score that reflects a following indicative of what people love to read is helpful in shaping a story.  How do I draw the reader in?  What makes them click? Often those with high scores have the answer to those questions.

      1. Barbara Kay profile image84
        Barbara Kayposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        We are talking about author scores, not individual hubscores for hubs. The individual hubscores can indicate the quality of the hub, but the author scores don't.

        1. cynthtggt profile image79
          cynthtggtposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Where does one find the "author" scores?  I thought we were talking about the scores for the profile.  What's wrong with a score of 89?  Let's face it:  Writing a "how to" hub is a different kind of hub than others.  The score reflects I think the traffic to it.  I think the score should stay.  There is truth that there are trends on the Web.  In the Spring, people are drawn to some subjects more than others, and over "holiday" and such I notice people are drawn to more religious hubs or holiday hubs.  The scores reflect what is of interest and I would like to know.  If people truly don't care about the profile scores as they say, let them have the option of having them.

          1. Ceres Schwarz profile image13
            Ceres Schwarzposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The "author" score is the number on your profile picture, the one at the lower right side.

          2. Marisa Wright profile image94
            Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The author score is also called the Hubber score and yes, it's the number on your profile.  It's influenced by a number of things.  One is the average score of all your Hubs, but it's also heavily influenced by your activity on the site, e.g. in the forums, questions and answers, commenting etc etc.

            The big problem is that many authors assume it's a reflection of the quality of their writing, whereas in fact it has far more to do with how much time they waste on the social aspects of HubPages when they should be writing (she says guiltily)....

            1. joanveronica profile image91
              joanveronicaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I have always understood that Hubber score reflected activity. But mine has just gone crazy recently. I have increased participation, posted a hub, and the score went down even further! I cannot get it back up. But when I stopped my activity on Hubpages, the score went up as far as 96. Now I've dropped again. So what does it reflect? I would prefer to battle with it in private.

        2. cynthtggt profile image79
          cynthtggtposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Here's the link differentiating the two.  Question:  If what you are describing is different, how is it different:  http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/hubs … ber-score.

          Whether it be the "author" score or the "hubber score" that which is viewed by the reader is the one only worth hiding.  Why be concerned about a score no one sees anyway?  To that end, my reply fits into this conversation.

      2. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks for the kind words, Cynth!  There are many very talented writers here, and I'm honored to be with them. I just feel the Hubber score has long outlived its usefulness.  If, indeed, it ever had utility.

  6. Felisa Daskeo profile image87
    Felisa Daskeoposted 3 years ago

    I am new in Hubpages but the way I look at it, the score must be hidden and only visible to the writer.  The score will be helpful to the writer for improvement but I think there is no need to display it to the public.

  7. Mark Ewbie profile image81
    Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago

    Make it invisible if you are not logged in.  Then normal people, non-Hubbers, don't need to see the meaningless number but it may have some small use for us.

    And congrats to Beth!

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      haha
      And thanks. I think we should make the score bigger for at least one more day. Then... yeah... get rid of it.

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
        Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, much bigger.  Seems a shame to call it meaningless... it's a great feeling that first time.  An indicator of all round good Hubberness.

        It is meaningless to people outside HP.  Truth is everything about us is mostly meaningless.  They want that info they are searching for and that's about it.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Most the info I provide is pretty meaningless... except your hub of course.

          1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
            Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Lol.  That might be the reason for the 100.  I have friends in powerful places.

            1. 0
              Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              And a sexy new pic. Well it's too late. Im obviously way too good for you now. Someday, if they remove our hubber scores, we might find ourselves on equal ground again, but until then, Im afraid I can't associate with you anymore. At least until tomorrow when my score drops again.

              1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
                Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Understood.  I'll wait till you're back in the eighties...

  8. Curiad profile image81
    Curiadposted 3 years ago

    I have to agree with the OP. My score went down 5-6 points in the last three days even though I have over 50 featured Hubs, and have written two new Hubs in the last week or so that are doing very well. The entire scoring system seems to be haphazard and meaningless.

  9. 0
    Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago

    Can I just hit 100 once and then y'all can take it down?  Money isn't a measure of my success, but I do like to see something that says I *might* actually being doing a halfway decent job.

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I haven't done anything right Motown... it is so arbitrary... surely you know they are as meaningless as everyone says.

      1. 0
        Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, I know.  I'd just like to see it once.

        I'm silly that way.

        1. 0
          Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          More proof that there is a God. I doubt I got a single 100 in high school. He felt sorry for me. You on the other hand probably cared about your grades and worked way too hard. Now He is trying to teach you a lesson... that pleasing Him is the only thing that matters. wink

          1. 0
            Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            You're cute!  big_smile  He's spent a long, long time teaching me those lessons.

  10. PaulGoodman67 profile image91
    PaulGoodman67posted 3 years ago

    Clearly the hubber score is there to encourage people to do things that benefit the site: comment on hubs, participate in the forums, write new great hubs etc.  I have no problem with the hubber score.  And yes, I generally just ignore it lol.  (I hope you don't mind me posting a contrary opinion on the "petition".)  smile

    1. Patty Inglish, MS profile image90
      Patty Inglish, MSposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with this comment. My Hubber Score reminds me of a few things I've forgotten on my To Do List as the score rises and falls. I welcome it. Thanks.

      1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Patty - I also appreciate having a tool that let's me know I should do something.  But there's no information available to tell us what we need to do.  I have no interest in operating in the blind, or in having an arbitrary number slapped on my profile. In the Learning Center, we are told one factor is hub engagement (do people leave comments).  The majority of my traffic is through Google (also, apparently, a desired element).  But Google traffic does not yield comments.

        If the number of hubs is a factor, the score is skewed toward people who have been on the site for many years, and who have many hundreds of hubs.  If the score is based on quality, it should be stable, not fluctuating.  Unless, of course, some mystery demons hacked our accounts and edited in some bad writing? 

        If the score reflects 'activity on the site,' it is by no means an indicator of quality writing.  If the score factors in hubscores, that penalizes people who produce new (and good) work.  It also penalizes writers who temporarily take down some hubs while they work on them. 

        The site wants us to follow people.  But the score goes down if someone innocently follows 'too many' at one time (whatever that might be). 

        My vote is that the score be private information, and that if it goes up or down, we be given some clues as to why the changes happened.  As it stands now, we are living through Animal Farm.  Today it's good to be one thing, and tomorrow, it's another.

        1. LuisEGonzalez profile image81
          LuisEGonzalezposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          The hubber/profile score appears not to serve any purpose, but it can be misleading to visitors  who may interpret it as representing the quality of a writer.
          I know when I started I only looked at hubbers with a high score because in my mind they were good. Not only after looking at others with lower scores did I realize that they were often better than hubbers with higher scores.
          If it serves no real purpose, can be misleading, can cause frustration or confusion, then why have it?

          1. Ceres Schwarz profile image13
            Ceres Schwarzposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I agree with this. When I first started here, I knew nothing about the number on people's profile pictures. But when you see those numbers, I think it's natural for anyone to think that the higher number is better so there's like a connotation that those with higher numbers are better as compared to those with lower numbers. So it can be misleading.

            But in reading the learning center guide on this, I got that you mostly have to participate a lot here in order to keep your hubber score up such as in commenting, posting on the forums, etc. So it doesn't seem to have anything to do with quality at all. And it can cause lots of frustration for people who have no idea why their scores might be decreasing or what they should do to increase it. It would be better to just opt out of the scores.

      2. PegCole17 profile image91
        PegCole17posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Today, I'm in favor of hub author scores. smile Maybe not tomorrow when my score is likely to drop with the publishing of a new, lower scoring hub. I do agree, that when it drops, it gives me incentive to go in and tweak a few of my older hubs. And it gives me a feeling for the effort that people are putting into making quality hubs. I'm more likely to read a hub that has a higher score or follow someone who has a decent score - if that is any indication of quality work. Who knows?

        1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          The fact that people are more likely to read a hub by someone with a higher score is sad.  Our work should stand on its own, not have a value implied by a score (especially one that even the site claims we should ignore). 

          Many people understandably feel badly when their score drops for no apparent reason.  They also get demotivated when they work hard at all the things the site claims go into the score, and see no results.  It is unreasonable to tell people to 'ignore' the score.  That's like having someone smack you in the face and then say, "Just ignore it!  Doesn't mean a thing!"

          1. missolive profile image93
            missoliveposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Marcy, thank you for your persistence and advocacy with this issue-
            I would certainly like to know why I have a score of 83 right now.
            - 48 of my 89 hubs are from the apprenticeship (I know this is not everyone's favorite topic, oh well).
            - I participate in the community and have never been banned or reprimanded (at least that I know of).
            - Most of my answers in the Q & A section are directly related to the HubPages community.

            So then? Don't get me wrong, I know I have plenty of room for improvement, I'm certainly not here full-time. I just do not understand why I should "ignore" the score if I can't somewhat interpret why it dropped from a 93 to an 82 last week. Especially since I have not seen such a drop in over a year.

            I've been following this thread from the beginning and doing my own research. It is easy to say, "ignore it' when one's scores are in the 90's, I myself am guilty of saying this. I have been in the 90's for most of my 20 months here and have been blessed with incredible support. Do I not deserve to know why I am suddenly seeing low 80's as a hubber score?

            Paul said, "Generally, people with high HubScores are more trusted and active community members."  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/112915? … ost2404592
            Insert anxiety here - I ask myself, am I not to be trusted? Am I not active enough? Others may drop me if they see my 83 hubber score. How can this not cause anxiety and concern for me? Do I not deserve to know how to fix it?

            Paul also said, "We started an initiative internally at HubPages to better highlight aspects of the author.  We'll see how the display of HubScore impacts this in our prototype/testing."
            So what aspects of the author are being highlighted? Do I not deserve to know how to fix it? At least a somewhat more specific idea?

            I've checked into various veteran hubber profiles to see their respective scores and activity. I have found several hubbers with scores in the 90's and zero activity. Isn't this a contradiction? I've also spoken privately with hubbers and have found I have higher traffic and earnings than some do. Yay me...right? Ok, but why do they have a 97 - 100 score and I don't? I'm not trying to cry over spilled milk, I just want a more general understanding of something displayed next to my face.

            Anyway, I could go on but I do not want to beat a dead horse or contradict what I am sure are the good intentions of HubPages. This is my personal request, either remove the Hubber scores from public view or provide us with clearer guidelines for improving our scores and online persona. The basis for scoring is truly too vague and contradictory across the site. I want to represent myself and this site well....help me do that HubPages. Don't I deserve to know how?

            1. Writer Fox profile image79
              Writer Foxposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              This is sadness.

            2. paradigmsearch profile image89
              paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              My primary suspect would be QAP got around to rating your older hubs. Hub scores and traffic now play a larger part in profile scores. Got any low-traffic, low-hub-score, pet hubs laying around? Ones you were kind of thinking of deleting anyway? Unpublish those and give it a week. If your profile score bounces back up, then you will know and can start making arrangements to transfer those hubs elsewhere. Nothing to lose, everything to gain. smile

              1. missolive profile image93
                missoliveposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Valid points...
                For starters, I have 100% featured hubs and I removed 3 (idled) hubs in the last 3 months to my own domain. I always check my stats and tweak old hubs along the way. I'll keep working my way through my lowest scored hubs and keep tweaking.

                1. paradigmsearch profile image89
                  paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  I think QAP already got around to munching through my hubs awhile back.

                  I, too, deleted some of my low, low pets. I think I did it before QAP dropped by. Thus my "permanent" 97 profile score only dropped to a "permanent" 93. However, if I were to wake up tomorrow to a sudden 10-point drop from 93 to 83, finding a couple more candidates would be the first thing I'd do. Featured is nice, but if the critters aren't getting any traffic anyway, and have low hub scores to boot, there would probably be another execution ceremony at high noon. big_smile

                  edit: I'm pretty much tweaked out, I really don't know what more I could do there.

            3. Jo_Goldsmith11 profile image61
              Jo_Goldsmith11posted 3 years ago in reply to this

              This is a great thing to discuss! wow.  I have been here 2 yrs now. And I just recently in the past week, have jumped out of the 80's and into the 90's! Yes, this was an *anxious* time for me personally. Then I figured as long as I can keep my readers interested, then I am happy and always grateful for the responses. I am wondering if instead of a *hub score*.
              Why couldn't we "Spotlight" the ones that are really setting the bar high?
              I mean, there are so many of us who have been here such a long time and we have grown as writers/authors. So, why not showcase the ones who are meeting certain criteria, and spotlight them? Some of the criteria could be >> (1) word count  (2) original photos  (3) comments  and rated on how many of the interesting, useful, funny ect each one gets?  I hope to hear some feedback on this idea?  I agree that we all are in this together and the ones (like myself) who have been here a while should have the opportunity to mentor the new ones coming in, instead of the constant time it takes to keep a score of 90 to 100 or climb up out of the 70's or 80's.
              I personally am so blessed and grateful to have met so many here and learn some wonderful, touching and interesting things!
              This for me is what makes Hub Pages the best!
              Hugs for everyone. :-)

              Shalom

  11. rajan jolly profile image89
    rajan jollyposted 3 years ago

    I totally agree with Marcy! It not only serves no purpose, many a times it demoralizes the hubber who is a prolific writer as well as a good writer but has no time to participate in other activities on the site due to paucity of his non inclination to do so for whatever reasons.
    I hope the staff here gives a thought to this request.

    1. Peggy W profile image92
      Peggy Wposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I feel the same way many of you do.  If the scores are important...then show them only to the hubber, not the community at large.  If I get busy for a few days doing other things, my score often drops.  What does this have to do with the quality of hubs featured on the site?

  12. lorlie6 profile image84
    lorlie6posted 3 years ago

    I feel the same as PG67.  I find my hubber score spurs me on, daring me to improve my interaction here on HP.  I realize it often does not reflect my recent activity, but algorithms take time.

  13. 0
    Ghaelachposted 3 years ago

    Well done Marcy for bringing this out into the open. This subject has been talked about quite often just of late, and not only by a dear friend living in south Wales. There seems to be pro and contra for your request. Those that have a high score, but only publish a hub every now and again are quite happy with a high score, but what of those that write regular and publish excellent hubs, which is shown by the amount of views and comments they get. The hub score doesn't reflect the activity or quality of a hubber.
    While I'm having a moan, what about the "Hubber writer comments level". Who gives a monkeys what the level of the person giving a reply to your new article. Isn't the idea to publish an excellent hub and get as much response (i.e. views) as possible.
    Marcy, I'm pro to your request.
    LOL Ghaelach

  14. janderson99 profile image85
    janderson99posted 3 years ago

    I bet that most people don't know that the hubscore for every individual hub, for every hubber, is also available for the general public to view (you don't have to be logged in). It's an obscure pathway but it does exist.

  15. janderson99 profile image85
    janderson99posted 3 years ago

    The weird thing is that despite staff saying the hubber score is irrelevant and to ignore it.
    If you publish a handful of hubs at once (or you try to make a lot of friends) your hubber score can go down and this seems to open up the flood gates and hubs start getting idled again. I think the hubber score affect the grace period.

    1. LuisEGonzalez profile image81
      LuisEGonzalezposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Precisely! If you publish several hubs in one day for example, then the score goes down, yet you are encouraged to publish often. I recently unpublished all my hubs and slowly began to re-publish them at a rate of 10 or so per day, and as you can see my profile score went down from around 92 to 75.

      So by logic the more I participate on the forums, questions/answers, hub hopping etc...the less time to write but the higher my profile score should be.

      However many have reported that when they participate on forums,questions/answers,their score actually drops.

      I think Marcy hit it right on the head; if staff must absolutely hold on to it, then at least hide it from others besides the author.

      1. WryLilt profile image87
        WryLiltposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Can I ask why you unpublished then republished all your hubs??

  16. janetwrites profile image83
    janetwritesposted 3 years ago

    I would also say that the hubscore should be removed. Nobody really understands this system. Without it everybody would feel more free.

  17. WriteAngled profile image93
    WriteAngledposted 3 years ago

    I totally agree with Marcy.

    Not only are these scores demoralizing, it is also demeaning to label people in this way.

  18. viryabo profile image85
    viryaboposted 3 years ago

    I agree with Marcy.
    I still don't understand why we need to have Hubber scores IF it supposedly serves no purpose (as they always tell us).

  19. Will Apse profile image90
    Will Apseposted 3 years ago

    I think the scores are useful. Anyone below 90 is obviously a moron and shouldn't be taken seriously. Anyone above 95 obviously spends all day writing 'Nice Hub' and 'Good job!' on any page they come across.

    So really, the only people you can trust are people with scores on or about 92.

    edit: Yikes! My score went up to 95. I am now clearly an idiot.

    1. PaulGoodman67 profile image91
      PaulGoodman67posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Nice comment, Will!

      But seriously, I've been malingering in the mediocre/moronic 80s for some time now - even so, I am surprised that so many experienced hubbers take the score so seriously: words like "demeaned" and "humiliated" being used.  I think your (historical) comment that the system is designed as a Skinner-style behaviorist tool* was pertinent, Will.  It's like getting a gold or silver star at school, pure psychology (unless your hubber score seriously hits the skids, in which case you really are f**ked!)  smile

      *I think it was you that said that ages ago!

      1. Patty Inglish, MS profile image90
        Patty Inglish, MSposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        The last line of the comment is true for me. In my second year, I gave one Hub a title that turned out to be BAD - its score went all the way down to "1" and my author score cut in half. With a new title, the scores rose. I knew something was wrong when my author score decreased so much, so I looked at Hubs until I found the problem.

        1. Zsuzsy Bee profile image83
          Zsuzsy Beeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Hiya Patty,  it happened to me more than ones too. I detected problems with three of my hubs when my score instead of rising dropped out at the bottom.
          Hope you're well zs

      2. Will Apse profile image90
        Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        There is a story that one batch of Skinner's students managed to shape his behaviour in the lecture room so he would only declaim from the extreme left hand corner. Essentially, they became mildly inattentive whenever he spoke from any other place.

        I have personally trained rats to press a button whenever a light came on. Operant conditioning certainly works.

        Somehow, though hubscores don't do it for me. Like I said last time this subject came up, if you want to shape my behaviour it requires money.

        1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Great analogy, Will.  And negative reinforcement is also not seen as a productive way to effect change. 

          The 'incident' that prompted me to post this request to HP is a dramatic drop in one specific Hubber's score. That incident alone illustrates the counter-productive effect this score creates. She is outstanding, has excellent hubs, is known in the community, supports HP, etc, etc.  Her score suddenly dropped by 15% or more from what it has regularly been for more than a year.  Her writing is consistently good, so I cannot believe she has any pockets of old hubs that needed work. It is disheartening to see respected members stymied as to what may have caused the drop.

          Not long ago, yet another very respected writer had a plunging score.  No explanation as to why.  No problems with his work. Active on the site. Good content.

          It's like being picked off by snipers.

        2. PaulGoodman67 profile image91
          PaulGoodman67posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I honestly don't think a 15% drop matters much.  It might have concerned me when I first started, but not now.  Likewise, I don't think a 15% rise matters much either.  Only a really extreme change like Patti had would make me take any notice.

      3. joanveronica profile image91
        joanveronicaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I am also "malingering in the moronic 80s". What does that make the wonderful Hubbers who posted lovely comments on my last Hub? Just wondering!

    2. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      lol

      1. SimeyC profile image90
        SimeyCposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry Will Apse - but you're totally wrong. It took me ages to get this score - I had to write "You are the best Simone" five hundred times in my best hand writing!!!

        1. PaulGoodman67 profile image91
          PaulGoodman67posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          big_smile

        2. joanveronica profile image91
          joanveronicaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, Smiley, so that's how it works! Thanks for the tip, but I have arthritis in my hands, so I will have to say goodbye for ever to all hopes of improving my Hubber score!

  20. Blond Logic profile image89
    Blond Logicposted 3 years ago

    I agree, scrap it or hide it. If it is a means of quality control, we need information about it.

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Yes - there is no way for that score to help raise quality, traffic or anything else if writers have no way of knowing the factors going into it.  And even then, it should be hidden.

  21. 0
    summerberrieposted 3 years ago

    With you all the way Marcy! Please REMOVE the hubber score. At least from our profile pictures and place it somewhere else where it can be easily ignored.

  22. portables profile image80
    portablesposted 3 years ago

    you're right! What is the point of a score if you don't know the scale that it measures?

  23. 0
    Educateurselfposted 3 years ago

    First of all thanks to you Marcy for raising the very important topic which need to be solved.
    My question is why the hubpages staff members tell the hubbers about hubscore I mean what is the important factors which affects hubscore.

  24. moonlake profile image86
    moonlakeposted 3 years ago

    No matter what anyone says the hubber score is hard to ignore. I also think it makes a big difference when people are on here looking around and they ignore reading hubs with a lower score. Yesterday there was a hub by someone who's score had dropped very low. They have been here for a long time and were very upset over it.
    A staff member once said traffic makes a difference in the score. I saw my traffic go up and my score went down so that didn't make sense. I agree with you Marcy on this.

  25. gmwilliams profile image86
    gmwilliamsposted 3 years ago

    I love you Marcy but DO NOT take the hubberscore down.  It is a motivator to the writer.

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I'm not suggesting getting rid of it completely - it should be like our stats - with transparency attached to it, visible only to us, and easily interpreted in a way that allows us to increase it.

      I disagree that it's a motivator - it is quite the opposite.  It's demoralizing, frustrating and ends up driving away new writers who don't feel they're gaining ground and it also affects experienced writers who produce good (even stellar) content and then see the score drop. No expert in any field related to motivation or productivity would see having a visible score as a useful or positive thing.

      1. Ceres Schwarz profile image13
        Ceres Schwarzposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I also don't think it's a motivator because isn't the score mostly related to your participation in the community? What if you didn't get the chance to post comments to hubs or answer questions for a while for some reason? Then your score would drop.

        And sometimes, it can drop too even if you publish new hubs. Sometimes, the scores even stay the same for a few days and even that can be confusing but at least it hasn't dropped. But then there's the question of why did your score stay the same even if you did the same things that you always do? When will it increase? And what does it mean?

        1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Even if every single factor going into the score were to be clearly outlined, we should have the right to privacy.  As I mentioned in the thread Marisa Wright posted several months ago, if I publicly labeled students in the classes I teach, I'd be in big trouble.  Heck, we can't even email grades to our students; we have to use the online grade book, which is only visible to them. 

          If a score here can go up and down daily (sometimes within hours), it is clearly flawed.  Someone with the same content, traffic and participation can see changes from one day to the next.  That does not suggest a situation where tweaking is needed - it represents a system based on changing and volatile indicators (like watching the DOW or something).

          Get rid of it completely, please, until a valid formula can be developed and installed.  And when that happens, make it private, across the board, with clear indicators to us on our stats pages of why it has shifted one direction or another.

          1. Ceres Schwarz profile image13
            Ceres Schwarzposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            I agree. If the hubber score can't be completely removed then it should be made visible only to the author. I like what LCDWriter suggested about the score being just like our accolades where we can decide to make it visible to everyone, no one or just us.

      2. joanveronica profile image91
        joanveronicaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I like that expression: "Hubbers who produce good content and then see the Hubber score drop" And yes, it is not very motivating, quite the contrary!

    2. Patty Inglish, MS profile image90
      Patty Inglish, MSposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      It's motivation for me.

      1. LCDWriter profile image95
        LCDWriterposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        How can it be motivating when we don't know how it works?  Why not just make it like the accolades and you have a choice in your profile to make it visible to everyone, no one or only you?

  26. Ceres Schwarz profile image13
    Ceres Schwarzposted 3 years ago

    I agree about removing the hubber score. Many have said that the scores don't matter and should just be ignored. But it's kind of hard to ignore something that you can easily see a lot of the time. And it's hard not to worry if your hubber score suddenly goes down and you don't know why that happened and you're wondering what you did wrong, etc.

    So it would also be nice to clarify exactly what you need to do to maintain or increase your hubber score. The learning center guide on this isn't really very clear. Like it says to participate a lot in the community by posting on forums, answering questions, commenting on hubs, etc but how much is a "lot" exactly? Like how many times should you comment or something? Or exactly what else are the factors that go with calculating the hubber score?

    But it would probably be better to just remove the hubber score like the others are suggesting.

  27. Just Ask Susan profile image87
    Just Ask Susanposted 3 years ago

    I agree with Marcy. I'd love to see it removed.

  28. Amber Vyn profile image60
    Amber Vynposted 3 years ago

    I agree with Mark's idea. Because the Hubber score is an all-around score reflecting many aspects, including our participation in the community, there's no reason for it to be visible to people who are not logged in. Also, it should be like our accolades: We can show it if we want, or we can hide it.

    I don't want it to go away completely. Although I'm really new here, my understanding is that the score is not totally without merit or consequences. If the score is below 75, then links become no follow. The higher your hubber score, the more time your hubs have to find an audience before they're un-featured (de-featured?).

    Maybe the Hubber score is really only meaningful to newbies. Perhaps that's something that should be displayed for our first year at HP and then goes away?

    1. Amber Vyn profile image60
      Amber Vynposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Sorry to comment on my own post, but in the time that I wrote this response, my hubber score dropped two points!! smile

  29. Barbara Kay profile image84
    Barbara Kayposted 3 years ago

    I just think that having the traffic go down and the author scores go down at the same time is poor timing. The traffic going down whether it is from summer or Google changes is depressing enough. Then the author score goes down at the same time. It makes us feel really great about writing.

    1. Millionaire Tips profile image91
      Millionaire Tipsposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      +1

  30. 0
    DigbyAdamsposted 3 years ago

    There have been passing comments by HubPages Staff that these scores are undergoing changes based on the Quality Assessment. I think they will both become more meaningful in the future as the process gets stronger. I don't have a problem with that. I'd just like them to be private.

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      This is true, Digby, but they've been saying this for a long while. It would probably take little effort to remove the current (obsolete and inaccurate) number completely while they work on alternative plans. The current method for deriving a score is probably based on long-outdated behaviors by Google, as well as other factors that do not reflect today's Internet trends, or even the systems in place on HP.

      As mentioned by Judah's daughter, the score can artificially drive traffic, or deter it.  Are we supposed to believe someone who has an inflated score because they post comments on the hubs all their friends write is somehow producing higher-quality work?  Maybe they are, and maybe not. 

      Make the score relevant to quality, and make it invisible to anyone other than the writer and the staff.  And let writers know what's going on with it.

  31. Judah's Daughter profile image90
    Judah's Daughterposted 3 years ago

    I don't think the Hubber score goes up or down based on anything we DO.  I've not done anything differently and watch my score bounce from 92 to 87 regularly.  Up and down - does it reflect the quality of the very same hubs I've had published when I was at 92 than when I was at 87?  Absolutely not.  If readers 'judge' the quality of an author and his/her work based on a Hubber score, it can actually deter readers and followers from both reading and following.  Likewise, when a Hubber score is high, it acts as a magnet for traffic to head over there and away from other authors.  I'm for removing the Hubber/Author score.

  32. Pearldiver profile image87
    Pearldiverposted 3 years ago

    Irrespective of one's opinion of Hubber scores, it supports a publicly visible system that negatively discriminates against a high percentage of individuals who are being 'judged' in a manner that intimates the worth of that individual!  Not only is discrimination illegal, but having a management dependance on it, shows the depth of disrespect that autocratic management has for the 'Whole' community being subjected to it!

    Hubber Scores are an insult to those of us who joined HP under a totally different set of circumstances and when the community were encouraged to be interactive collectively.  That is no longer encouraged and the place has been systematically 'changed' in ways that now highlight exactly how discriminant the system has become. 

    In my view - It does not reflect the quality of a writer (on a heavily promoted writing site) - It represents an anonymous, irrelevant management opinion of how the hubber is valued to them, that is heavily promoted to the public!  Realistically, there is nothing motivational to anyone who is 'judged' to be inferior, by others who have no idea who that person is and really don't give a toss how that party feels! 

    Nothing justifies Discrimination - Worldwide it is a breach of Human Rights and perhaps someone needs to smarten up on that very point, irrespective of 'ownership' or personal likes and dislikes!

    I firmly believe HP need to ditch this pathetic tool as it serves only to set people apart, rather than encouraging them collectively to compliment the site with it's depth of individual talent. If not.. then the 'site' clearly shows that it is happy to openly discriminate against it's members.  sad

  33. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    As long as ATM is in the 50's I vote to keep it on. It makes me feel superior. lol

  34. rebekahELLE profile image90
    rebekahELLEposted 3 years ago

    It's interesting to read comments, and yet I'm surprised a number is taken so seriously.

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Rebekah - we live in a world where everything is ranked, rated, scored and graded.  We had GPAs in school, but at least we knew where the numbers came from, and had personal control over changing things. Even then, they were our private business.

      People indeed take them seriously - how else are people expected to react to a numerical score?  And how are readers expected to interpret it, if even the writers can't figure it out.

      There's no way a reader would hazard a guess as to why someone mediocre might have a high score and someone who writes beautiful and informative hubs would have a 75.  Or why a writer they've seen one day with a 100 (and most of us have been there numerous times) and a constellation of accolades suddenly drops to 82.  Did they do something wrong? Did the quality of their work decline overnight?

      As I said - it's like Animal Farm, and like dodging invisible snipers.

  35. Mark Ewbie profile image81
    Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago

    Keep the number, get rid of the picture.  Some of them make the place look a bit, well, down-market.

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      You can hire out to draw stick-figure profile pics for us.  Me first!

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
        Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Only if you get to 100.

        1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Wait - I've been at 100 several times already - got there after maybe two months on the site - can't I be grandfathered?

      2. fpherj48 profile image80
        fpherj48posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Marcy and Mark......ROFLMAO!!    Thank you sooooo much!  You just cheered me up!  and I needed the laugh!  I love you people!   Mark...please, draw me ..right after Marcy?

    2. cynthtggt profile image79
      cynthtggtposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      What do you mean?

      1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Mark is our Resident Wit and Cartoonist, specializing in Stick Man humor.  He's funnin' with us.  It's all good.

        1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
          Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Marcy! Phew...

          1. cynthtggt profile image79
            cynthtggtposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, thanks Marcy, Phew!!  Why not let him answer though?  Phew!

            1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
              Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Well, I can obviously answer for myself.  But it took me so long to make up an off-the-cuff remark that my computer timed out.  By the time I had got the witticism just right, I logged back in and had forgotten it.  Fortunately Marcy had headed off what could have been a serious forum incident.

              1. cynthtggt profile image79
                cynthtggtposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                So what did you mean?  Still have not answered for yourself.  I don't know what picture on any hub is so grand.  Haven't found one.  Is that what you mean?  I mean, what's the "funny" or "joke"?  For that matter, haven't found a picture so grand in all the newspaper print of journalist's faces either.  Not one - in the entire history of newspaper reporting.

                1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
                  Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  OK, you don't get it or like it.  Maybe you found it offensive.  Whatever.  I can't spend time explaining everything I do.  Please do not read any of my hubs otherwise we will be here for a very long time.

                2. 0
                  Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  You obviously haven't seen Beth100 (sadly not related to Beth37 for so many reasons.)
                  She's wearing a bikini... surely that should get a rise out of you?

                  1. Barbara Kay profile image84
                    Barbara Kayposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                    That made me curious, so I had to look. I wonder how many views that profile photo gets her? Maybe I should be changing mine to something a little more exciting.

            2. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
              Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Because if some of us don't intervene and save him from himself, he just gets worse. We love him anyway, and with luck he may bless this thread with an appropriate Stick Man interpretation of the Hubber score.  Or not.

              1. 0
                Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                lol

                Oh, Marcy, so true.  Thank heaven Mark has such loyal cohorts to save him from himself.  Too bad your efforts didn't save him from the forum incident after all.

                1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
                  Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                  Maybe people reading this will drop by his hubs and see his absolutely gifted sense of humor and cartoon-wit.

                  Mark - we need a Stick Man worthy of a T-shirt for the Ban Hubber Scores campaign.  We can also use it for magnets.

      2. Pearldiver profile image87
        Pearldiverposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Don't be alarmed... it's just a blatant self promotion of thin people!  smile

        1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
          Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I forget not everyone knows me.  The dangers of trying to be 'funny'.

    3. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      hahaha

  36. Pearldiver profile image87
    Pearldiverposted 3 years ago

    And PS...

    Cheers for tabling this issue Marcy.  Some excellent points have been raised.

    1. midget38 profile image91
      midget38posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Agreed. The score is best kept between us and HP. And what's a little perturbing is the mystery that it is.

      1. Pearldiver profile image87
        Pearldiverposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Yep.... And this link shows EXACTLY what the 'score' means to the uninformed who lack the disclosure to make an informed decision!  Amazing!  roll

        http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/112935

        smile

  37. MizBejabbers profile image90
    MizBejabbersposted 3 years ago

    I don't know, I don't mind the public scores. I find the Hubber scores really weird, but it doesn't bother me since now I usually stay in the 90s. When I first joined HP, my low score gave me an inferiority complex, especially when I was in the 50s and 60s and saw all these high scores, but it gave me a goal to work toward. I don't get to write much because of my full-time job, but I find that my score goes up when I find time to read hubs and forums and post a comment. If I skip a day or two, my score falls by several points. I keep hoping to hit 100 like Bethperry and some of the others. As I said, it's a goal to work toward.

  38. CloudExplorer profile image82
    CloudExplorerposted 3 years ago

    I love math but somehow today I hate how numbers play with peoples minds. I must agree with Marcy, it appears to only appeal to those who seek to compete with one another. I don't care for that, I care for humanity, for my fellow writers and I am tired of not succeeding in this life no matter what I try to do. It brings tears to my eyes as I write, because I work hard for I truly believe in what I am doing digitally.

    As for earning something here on Hubpages is concerned I no-longer care to write for such a reason, my purpose has changed long ago, and now I write for humanity. I write to help people no matter what, and this is why I shall never ever quit online. I know this world can change for the better, forget about the numbers. Humanity needs our help people in a real way, please consider thinking about that, forget about Hubscores too, I have just as Bill Holland has, and so many others who are sick of the number games being played on us all. (No pun intended, its just a statistics game I guess)

    Thanks Marcy for standing up for what you believe in, I hope the Hubpages Team at least thinks for a fraction of a millisecond, about this post and special request you've made here. Thanks for sharing it with the community, for I love being a hubber as well, and sharing fairly with others and for all others I come in contact with daily whenever I get time to. Have a wonderfully pleasant day folks, joy, love, and peace to all.

    Mike Pugh aka Cloud Explorer

  39. A Troubled Man profile image60
    A Troubled Manposted 3 years ago

    Even with no hubs at all, my score has been higher than those with hubs.

    Not only that, I've read some of hubs from the '100' crowd and was not impressed in the least, many of them were just plain awful or were written in another language (Gibberish), meanwhile reading other hubs that have much lower scores but oddles of great content and wit.

    Totally agree with the OP here, that system is pointless. Unless, HP can justify it, it should go the way of the dodo.

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Hi, TM - I've seen that oddity, too - people with absolutely no content (and no record of activity), and they have a higher score than someone with an arsenal of good hubs.  And of course there are Hubbers we all recognize as having good work, but maybe they don't drop by the forums regularly, or perhaps traffic went down (or something - who knows?), and their score is lower than the person with no content.

    2. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Post a hub then vote.

  40. paradigmsearch profile image89
    paradigmsearchposted 3 years ago

    Please keep the present system intact. Otherwise, I won't know who my inferiors are. This is important.

  41. aa lite profile image91
    aa liteposted 3 years ago

    +1, I am all for removing the Hubberscore.

    I've always been uncomfortable about the impression it gives to the casual visitor who knows nothing about HP, and arrives here from a search engine (who I consider to be my target audience).  I would hope that the site looks to them like an informative page in a magazine or a quality, trustworthy website.  Having a "score" next to my avatar is weird, even if the score is high.

    I mean my guess is most readers actually pay very little attention to our profiles, but when was the last time you read an editorial, or a newspaper article online, where the writer had a score by their name?

    1. Will Apse profile image90
      Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      'I've always been uncomfortable about the impression it gives to the casual visitor who knows nothing about HP, and arrives here from a search engine...'

      Lol, you have a frog on your head and you are worried about a hubscore?

      1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Be right back - I have to wipe down the wall where I just spewed my herbal tea!

      2. aa lite profile image91
        aa liteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Hey the frog is the intellectual in this partnership!  Also it is a statement about my disdain for social norms, and against the pomposity with which most people regard themselves.

        The number, and the fact that people are competitive about it, is part of what I (well the frog really) am (is) against.  So there is serious dissonance in the avatar picture. 

        @Marcy, hopefully the herbal tea won't stain as badly as real tea!

  42. 0
    Motown2Chitownposted 3 years ago

    Okay, so I've joked a bit, but I do have a serious opinion on this.  I agree that for some of us, the score is a bit of a motivator.  But in the grandest scheme of things, it is ultimately based only on our community participation.  In part, does it reflect the quality of our work?  Maybe a bit, but ultimately, I think it's a greater reflection of our activity within the HP community.  If there are those who would like to continue to see their scores, allow them that opportunity.  Perhaps a show/hide feature would benefit the others.  I think that in perusing profiles, our accolades do a bit more to show what kind of quality we produce, based on the feedback of other hubbers, by showing our pageviews, etc...

    In all honesty, if it disappears one day, I don't think I'd be too terribly concerned.  If it doesn't, I'll remain interested in so far as I remain at a level that makes ME happy.

    Thanks, Marcy!

  43. Mark Ewbie profile image81
    Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago

    Too small.  I hate that.  The thought was there.
    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/8023217_f248.jpg

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I love it!  If I squint really hard, I can read the signs. 

      Do I get to be the blonde?

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
        Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        This time....YES!

        1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Thank you!  I must have used the right bottle of, um, 'hair enhancement' this time around.

  44. Writer Fox profile image79
    Writer Foxposted 3 years ago

    Well, I'd sign my name to the Petition but I don't know how to post a graphic of my paw print.  How does Ewbie post graphics on the forum?  Since my Hubber score is higher than his, I must be more important than he is.  But, I don't know how to post graphics on the forum.

    1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
      Mark Ewbieposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      When you reply to a post look at the buttons underneath
      submit   cancel      a blurry camera      formatting

      Try pressing the blurry camera

      1. Writer Fox profile image79
        Writer Foxposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        http://s4.hubimg.com/u/8023783.jpg

        1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I love it!  And yes, you are the true 'author' of this thread.  (She did it, Simone - not me!!!).

  45. Writer Fox profile image79
    Writer Foxposted 3 years ago

    And another thing:  since this whole Petition thing was my idea in the first place, I think my author score should go up by at least 2 points:
    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/112850?page=2

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I agree - I think you should get royalties or something.

  46. rebekahELLE profile image90
    rebekahELLEposted 3 years ago

    Perhaps, not so seriously. big_smile  I joined a number of years ago when the forums were a place to hang out, banter back and forth and help those with questions.  I've always kind of taken to the advice of darkside who published many HP related hubs and helped many hubbers get their start writing here.
    He has a hub about hubberscore.  Although some of it may not be relevant today, he has some helpful advice, along with his 'darkside' wit.

    I doubt very much if most searchers viewing our hubs ever see our hubberscore. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, so I'm sure the thread will catch the attention of the management.  If they want to make it an option to show,  then how will those who hide theirs view those who don't? wink  smile

    1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
      Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I really don't care how people view those who would decide to hide their score.  In fact, it would be my hope that the majority of Hubbers, if given the option, would hide it as a way of protesting that the score ever existed to begin with, and to support the right to privacy.  Several Hubbers don't show their accolades, etc., and I don't think anyone pays attention.  But most people do pay attention to the Hubber score.

      1. 0
        Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I posted 3 new hubs yesterday and my score has fallen one point today. I now fully agree with you Marcy, we need to do away with the thing.

        1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
          Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah - I love the way the score drops when we are productive. I added several 'in-the-works' titles that I haven't yet written, and mine dropped.  It appears even the scores of hubs we have never yet published get factored into the Hubber score.

          Oddly, you can have an unpublished title that has a score, even though the entire hub is empty.  And the 'hub' score can climb - empty hubs must be valuable.  But when you get around to writing the hub, so that there's real content in it (and a chance for traffic, etc.), the score will drop.  And of course your Hubber score drops (sometimes quite a bit) when you publish new hubs.  Go figure.

          1. 0
            Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

            So interesting. I didn't know that. I have 3 hubs I haven't finished yet... they've just been sitting in there doing nothing. I didn't know they could count against me. Oooh, I just went down one more point... I wonder what I said. SORRY SIMONE!

            1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
              Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Uh-oh . . . they're after you . . .

              1. 0
                Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Id better be quiet now or Ill drop off the map completely.

  47. prettydarkhorse profile image64
    prettydarkhorseposted 3 years ago

    One time I logged in and I was 89, I was thinking and I LOL, it was the first time in a long time like years since I had that author score. I had broken links that is why and lots of pending comments.

    It is important to me perhaps because my mind is conditioned to have some kind of metrics (just like children whom I tutor, I have marking system) but not for those who are searching the Internet, just my opinion. The author score can be hidden and it is fine with me if I am the only one to see my score.

  48. 0
    Beth37posted 3 years ago

    I have dropped 4 points from last night. I have posted 4 hubs since yesterday. I once was exalted and proud, now I am a humbled plebe. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

    1. 0
      Beth37posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Crap. I literally just dropped one point in one minute. They are making an example of me now. Who will be next? Writing Lover? Simey C? It's time for a revolution I say! They can't take us all down! Everyone, get your white out! We will take care of this the old fashioned way.

  49. Zsuzsy Bee profile image83
    Zsuzsy Beeposted 3 years ago

    I'm not sure my humble opinion will count for much BUT... as always there is that stupid three letter word... I joined hubpages 5+ years ago and was very active for 4 years then because of illness had to restrict my use and visits to my most favorite site ever.  Whenever my eyes allowed me a quick visit the first thing I looked for was my score... it was my connection or maybe better said the gage of my hubs to me (I know, I know its not to be taken too seriously... but...).
    When I was down a couple of score marks it bothered me enough that it gave me extra strength to be patient with my eyes. The score being there made me extra antsy to listen to all the fri...n rules the docs set for me, made it so that I followed so that I would be able to return and write those hubs from my ever growing list of hub-ideas.
    I for one like the hubscore and and found it quite helpful. I hope it will not be removed. 

    Just an honest, quick after thought... maybe it might come across as mean but I for one having had to restrict my reading to just 20-25 minutes per day I really did not want to have to sort the hubs that I read... if the hubbers score was low I really did not want to take a chance with reading their hubs...

    Again just my five cents worth
    zs

    1. Marisa Wright profile image94
      Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Not coming across as mean, it's understandable in the circumstances - BUT it illustrates why the score is so unfair - because Hubber score is NOT based on the quality of the Hubber's writing.  So you've been rejecting people's Hubs for the wrong reasons.

      It's based partly on how active you are on the site (commenting, forum posts, writing Hubs,questions, answers etc) and partly on a combination of the scores of your Hubs.  And as you know, the scores of your Hubs are not based on quality either - they're based on things like the amount of traffic a Hub gets, its length and now many different kinds of capsules it has. 

      So someone could be an excellent writer, but if they have only a few Hubs and don't participate in the forums, they'll have a low Hubber score.

      1. Zsuzsy Bee profile image83
        Zsuzsy Beeposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Hiya Marisa,  I do disagree to a certain degree... I'm not talking through my hat here, I used the read hubs by the dozens daily. I read high scored ones and many, many hubs that were written by hubbers with low scores (in the good old days when my time on the computer didn't matter so much and I was hunting for the weekly 'gold nuggets' writen by new hubbers along with the rest of the Hubnugget team like Patty English etc ) and unfortunately I can vouch that at least eighty to ninety percent of the low scoreres were poorly written hubs.  Loads were about great subjects but..... very badly put together, bad vocabulary etc.

  50. LeanMan profile image81
    LeanManposted 3 years ago

    My score once hit the highs of 95, 96 but it has reduced and reduced I guess due to inactivity. Once upon a time I would get involved heavily in the forums and comment on hubs related to my niche. I would even publish more hubs.. But now I do little of this so my score has reduced significantly - but do I care - nope!

    The score is on the whole meaningless to me whether it is 80 or it is 100; however if it were 50 I would want to know what I had done wrong.

    ANY measure needs to be transparent so that it can motivate, a measure that is not transparent with regards to how it is calculated will often demotivate people significantly; you only have to read some of the comments above and in the many previous forum threads about this subject to see how de-motivational it can actually be.

    This score however is rumored to take into account two main areas; site involvement and quality of your work. These are two very different areas and should not be linked into one score!

    We have accolades for commenting etc so why have the site involvement portion of the score included; not everyone wants to take part in the forums, nor to comment repeatedly on other peoples hubs but it does not make them a bad author on the site even if their score is "only 80" or some other value.

    The only true value of a high author score is getting "do follow" links within your hubs if your score is over 75(?memory getting fuzzy here). This I guess is to deter spammers from dropping crap here to gain links but it did not work.

    So yes, drop the score as it stands but we still need feedback on the quality of our work - but then there is the individual hubscore for that!! But then that should be fully transparent also - how about telling us exactly what scores and feedback we get from the QAP?? Should be nothing to hide if they are confident in the system.

    1. ladydeonne profile image90
      ladydeonneposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I am a Newbie still as I've only been at HP for almost (2) months.  My position is that the author scores are useless because I don't know what it means.  I don't know what to fix when my score goes down.  Because some hubbers believe that making the scores public is demoralizing, I am for eliminating them.  I would like for all hubbers to be happy hubbers.

      1. aa lite profile image91
        aa liteposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thank you for that sentiment, Panda!

      2. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image92
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        You stated that very well, LadyDeonne - and welcome to HubPages, by the way!  The community here is wonderful, and the staff is outstanding.  I hope they consider our comments here as they move forward.

        1. sallybea profile image97
          sallybeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Oh dear lets not get rid of it before I attain the magic 100 score.  When that happens I want to wear a T shirt with it emblazoned on the front  - ha.  I think it's meant to motivate us all to do a lot more writing!!  The crazy thing is yesterday my score was a paltry 93 - did a little tweeking, asked a few questions and now I am almost at the so far unatainable hot spot.  Makes me think though that it is not about writing at all, it is about getting traffic to our Hubs in any way possible.

          1. Marisa Wright profile image94
            Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            You're right, it's not about writing.  A large part of your Hubber score is based on your activity, i.e. commenting, questions, answers, forum posts etc.  The rest is the average of your HubScores - but if you publish some new Hubs, that drags your average down because new Hubs always have lower scores.  So if anything, HubberScore is a discouragement to write!

            1. sallybea profile image97
              sallybeaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              That is really interesting Marisa Wright - I had begun to wonder about that - especially since I have published nothing for about two weeks.  Should have something up and running in a few days thouhg as I have been working on the images for the Hub so I shall watch with interest - my downwards trend!!

 
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