Since September of 2012, more than 36 thousand writers have left Hub Pages due to frequent and increasingly absurd changes.
A team of marginally qualified “judges” are evaluating the quality of our work and make decisions based on “standards” that have nothing to do with good writing.
Banality and mediocrity became King and, unless one writes about “the best can opener on the market”, chances are the hub will not be featured.
Obviously Hub Pages think that creative writing is just cluttering their site so it is time for me to join the many others who have packed their bags
So sorry to see you go Petra but I do understand and agree with your comments.
Since HP are doing such a big clean up, I would expect that most of those 36K are actually spammy accounts rather than fantastic writers.
That's what I meant... some person bothered to write an entire hub with the average drop every single day for like three months... *eyeroll*
Oh I know - I've seen it lol! It keeps getting linked to in the Q/A section to show how many "wonderful" writers have left, but IMO it doesn't show that at all.
What a complete and utter waste of time!
I just looked at the hub again and there is a comment from Paul Deeds saying pretty much the same thing.
The majority of hubbers that have "left" have not logged in for over a year and have decided not to keep their accounts after receiving an email.
I agree - without knowing demographics or content, the 36,000 is just a number. HP very much needed to clear out bad accounts and freshen the site, and I support that move. Although I grumbled at first about the brief delay QAP now causes, I am fine with it now.
As for the ads in newspapers - HP is a business, and the Internet still has tremendous potential. They're doing a two-pronged approach to creating a spot for the site in the future by making massive improvements and continuing to recruit new writers. I admit that it's sad to know the Success Stories we saw a year or so ago aren't quite possible these days, but I don't mind keeping my content here. I like the site, I like the management, and I like our community.
To be fair, a large proportion of those members were probably already inactive, or spammers.
I've always been aware that although HubPages boasted of a large membership , it's active membership is quite small. I only have to look at my referrals to see that: of all the people who've signed up, the vast majority wrote only one Hub, if that. Most of the rest wrote only a handful, and some of those Hubs weren't great quality. Less than 5% of my referrals have become good, active Hubbers.
So it's inevitable that HubPages' recent efforts have cleaned out a lot of members who should never have been here in the first place.
I don't deny there was a major exodus in 2011 - we lost many of the best and most knowledgeable writers on HP then. The current situation isn't a patch on that debacle.
I'm not a fan of the QAP process but I also have to say - writing to make money and writing well are not incompatible. So let's not insult those who write to make a living.
So the problem is what exactly?
All of my hubs have quality content that is featured. It's not that hard to do. If HP is to be successful, all of the hubs can't just be a wall of text, as I have seen a lot of "writers" do.
Oh, and by the way, I have one piece of poetry that is featured. But it has an image and a back story.
It's not that hard.
I say we do our best to get rid of the substandard writers.
Unless you can show me exact proof that every single one of those so-called 36,000 writers left specifically due to "frequent and absurd changes," I'd have to say that numbers don't lie unless the words connected to them are doing it.
Unless you can show me exact proof that every single one of those so-called 36,000 writers left specifically due to "frequent and absurd changes," I'd have to say that numbers don't lie unless the words connected to them are doing it.
jimmythejock replied: +1 couldn't have said it better"
+1, I agree.
Nobody ever leaves (a job, a marriage or a site for that matter) because they are happy with it.
As of June 14th 2013 the statistics are here in black and white
1,074,322 published hubs / 110,518 published users............... (Lost another 186 fellow hubbers in 1 (ONE) day
Possibly part of the 200 spammers I flagged in one day.
On the contrary, I actually know of quite a few writers who used Hubpages as a learning centre and left to create their own websites, they have always thought highly of Hubpages which gave them confidence in their writing and themselves.....jimmy
As Patty mentioned, a ton of accounts are flagged every day. Just for grins, I once spent an evening searching for violations in usernames (dirty words, suggestive words, escort services, etc.). I found many dozens of them - in most cases, the 'Hubber' had created variations on words that violated the TOS, so site filters had not picked them up. I'm sure quite a few of the ones I reported were deleted.
The numbers you refer to easily include many thousands of accounts that were deleted due to violations. Several times a week (pretty much daily), we report spammers on the forum - they're people who signed up only hours or minutes earlier and immediately began spamming. One day, early in the morning, there were a ton of them at one time.
I doubt seriously those people 'left' because they were unhappy. And as for those who literally do quit for those reasons - it's to be expected that not everyone is comfortable staying in an environment that's changing. That happens in any situation, but it doesn't mean change should be avoided.
I am not saying that ALL 36,000 who left were good writers and (it is very possible some were spammers and got deleted by HP), but I am saying that I personally know many excellent writers who decided to leave after seeing their best work (with over a hundred meaningful comments) being judged by an unqualified HP team as being poor
I am referring primarily to creative writers not interested in making money on this site, but just sharing their writings (from the beginning I have disabled all ads from my work and never signed up for Adsense). Others have done the same, considering ads as pollutants and I am sure HP is not happy about people who do not help them making money.
To making it simple for anyone to understand, HP should call themselves an exclusively commercial site that does not welcome creative writing
Petra, that's a fair point but it's not what you said. I'm sure you were exaggerating for effect, but it's backfired on you because people are taking you literally.
Based on my own experience with my referrals, scanning through new Hubs, and browsing around the site, I'm fairly confident that betweeen two-thirds and three-quarters of the "members" of this site are not active and aren't even writers. It's a good thing that we're getting rid of them.
It is sad that creative writers are "collateral damage" in this. For creative writers, their articles are their babies and it's heartbreaking to feel they're being rejected or criticised. What's even sadder is that HubPages misled those writers in the first place. They ARE a commercial site and what they really want are writers who can write to make money. Unfortunately their advertising encourages all kinds of writers to think otherwise.
I once had sympathy with the creative writing side of this site but you have single-handedly changed my mind.
Do you need any help deleting anything?
... haven't been writing that many new articles, but my featured hubs include astronomy geeking, geology geeking, web trends geeking, Harry Potter / LOTR geeking, and Latin geeking (see a trend?). Therefore, it's been my experience that it's possible to have hubs featured even if they aren't selling anything. They just need to be of interest to somebody. Or rather, a reasonably steady trickle of somebodies who read from top to bottom of the hub.
However, I have reached the breaking point on another site for similar reasons.
I wonder if that's an inevitable stage to reach on any user-created content site?
I bet that "other" site has tentacles, and I also bet that their arbitrary efforts to cope with a Panda hit makes you really appreciate Huboages efforts.
At least I do.
And for all the whiners - check out that tentacled site - it might be just the place for you now - they are promoting posts and diary entries
Since I've joined, I've noticed a lot of gripers. Honestly, Hubpages is out to make money on ads, and people don't read creative writing on-line. Of course Hubpages is looking for articles on topics that people are Googling. It doesn't mean writers on Hubpages are "sub-par." It means they are writing for the market. That's not a sin, nor is it poor writing.
If you want to produce creative writing, then go write a book. Leave Hubpages. I don't think they will mind much, honestly.
As for this apparent "mediocre" writer (according to your terms), I'll continue to write here, educate my target market and make money.
HP is a business and they make the rules that hopefully benefit them-- and the those that follow the patterns they are seeking.
It might not always be what we optimally and individually want for ourselves, but we are the users of the service they provide. We are not paying for their service. We can choose to participate or not.
What are you basing these 36,000 disappearing writers number on?
I am one of them. I know Most people I follow have left because they have not posted Anything in months or years here. Good writers, ALL of them. I look in newspapers in my area, big city newspapers, and HP has listings in the 'help wanted' sections saying: "Make money on Hubpages as a writer." Newspaper ads now? Can you say 'desperate?' LOL There are certainly much better places to write than HP. The only ones saying it isn't so are the mutual admiration society people who get comments only on HP. Who is HP staff to 'judge' our writing?
Maybe Not in the admiration society, But, Some names here seem to hold more weight than others do. I rest my case because advertising in newspapers smells like desperation to me. I'm not out to convince those who cannot see. Just saying. smart ones left for better places.
I don't know about newspapers but the "Make money on Hubpages as a writer" campaign has been complained about for at least 3 years... they've used it in advertising on multiple sites and craigslist and multiple other sites for awhile, if memory serves me correctly.
I have to say, I quite dislike the fact that HP advertises for writers. It does seem like they are desperate for fresh meat. And the fact that most people attracted here will make cents a day....is not exactly made clear.
I do like the fact that they've finally taken the "success stories" from the front page. That was very misleading.
However, I agree that keeping a tally of the people who "left" is silly, most of these were probably 1 hub bad writers, who didn't leave, they were thrown out and probably didn't even notice.
I could give you a very long list of extremely good writers with tens of hubs and hundred of positive comments as well as thousands of visitors who left in the last 18 months.
For Hub Pages to even consider judging "quality" of creative writing is nothing short of SUPREME ARROGANCE
But wouldn't thinking that none of our work should be judged - lack humility?
Humility has nothing to do with expertise! Counting words has nothing to do with richness of content and even less with quality or writing
But of course. However, if we agree to their standards, and they hire ppl to set and maintain those standards, why would we complain? It's as you said, if you are not happy with the site, it is probably not the site for you? I'm sure you'll figure it out. No worries.
3 years ago, when I signed up their "standards" for creative writers were not as ridiculous as they are now and we had a great community of poets, most of whom are gone.
Are you sure their Hubs are being unFeatured for quality? In the case of creative writing, most of them are probably "unFeatured - engagement" - which just means they're not getting enough traffic. No one has judged them, no one has even looked at them, it's just a lack of traffic from outside Hubpages. And since "unFeatured" just means that the Hub is invisible to the search engines - which weren't sending any traffic anyway - the status doesn't really change anything.
Anyway, the fact is that HubPages is a business, It wants content that makes money. In the old days, they could afford to be generous and welcome writers who didn't write money-making articles - because in those days, the bigger a site was, the better. So even though they had many writers who weren't getting much readership outside the community, their Hubs all helped contribute to the mass of the site. And that included a wide range of writers from people who could barely write, to people who were creating beautiful fictional pieces.
These days, the landscape has changed. HubPages has to find some way to winnow the content so that only the search-engine-friendly stuff survives. If they had instituted better quality procedures in the early days, it would be a lot easier, but now they're faced with an enormous task.
Their budget allows them to use only the most blunt of tools. Personally I have disagreed with many of the measures they've taken, ever since Panda, but I don't deny that some kind of action was essential.
What is search engine friendly today isn't always search engine friendly tomorrow. That is where SEO comes into play. You need a crystal ball to see into the future. Really they want their writers to write as much as possible. Every time they have to break in a new writer, the writer has to find followers on Hubpages, and put their work out their and they have to hope that they read it. But first the readers work as to past the quality test. If the writers work doesn't past the quality test well then everybody, including the writer just wasted a whole bunch of time. (And that is mostly the writer).
This is the box that will appear next to your hub if Hubpages chooses not to promote it.
It's simple. Fix your hub.
People are complaining because the QAP is hitting old hubs, and you're too emotionally tied to your own work to step back and realize it isn't as good as you thought. Sorry. Get over the disappointment that your hub didn't pass the test and fix it. It's quite simple, and it's not "sad" at all.
Whining gets you nothing. Fixing gets you money. I'm all for QAP as getting rid of the sub-quality hubs will mean more money for my featured hubs as Google begins to love HP again. Way to go Hubpages for helping me make money!!
So I am going to fix something I cannot repromote.
That is a waste of time and money. My time and Hubpages time.
You are not being realistic.
I just heard from another hubber who added two images and one sentence and the whole thing made no sense.
It is not like I can send it out through my social media.
People who already read the article will not re-read it.
Would you be happy re-reading an article with such little changes?
Changes should be logical and make sense.
If you fix it... then it gets in the search engines again...
Hubpages SEO has to be strong enough in that topic to put your article near the top of the search when someone searches on that particular subject. If not all your work will be for nothing. You are still competing with everyone on the web, plus anyone else who wrote on that topic on Hubpages.
You could spend hours making changes on your articles depending upon how many you have written and not receive many views or reads in exchange.
They are probably doing this to have the modified date change on the date so the data looks as if it is not as old.
I'm not understanding... HP never promised a certain spot on the top of Google. That's always been up to the writer to work towards...
SEO is largely on the shoulders of the writers. It always has been.
HP is enforcing, with QAP, higher quality writing... The end result is Google possibly moving you up in ranks.
In addition, idling your hub for quality doesn't prevent promotion. You can still promote it all you like. The ONLY difference is that it is not being submitted to search engines.
Again, all you have to do is have it meet the quality standards to have that happen.
Self-Promotion is not affected in the least by the QAP process.
I'm don't think you have a very strong grasp of how this is working. Are there any questions we can answer for you that might straighten it out?
You can write on "Purple Pigeon Poop" on your own website or on Hubpages. Neither one will get views because no one is searching it.
You can write on a topic that IS getting views on your own site and Hubpages, Hubpages will get more views. I have personally tested this. Including new accounts (before I get the subdomain naysayers.)
Hubpages IS easier to write on, but it's not magic.
I find it a great place to "test" topics before making full blown sites, and for creating backlinks to funnel traffic to sites.
That I get.
The point I was trying to get across is that while HP helps with all the behind the scene stuff and whatnot, it is still ultimately up to the writer to make sure that 1. The search engines can find it (on page seo, titles etc) 2. That it's something that people are searching for (keyword research) and 3. That when a reader hits their hub, they won't immediately hit the back button (quality stuff)
It seems to me that Cassandra isn't understanding her role in the process. She thinks that HP should somehow have an "algorithm" that puts her hubs at the top of Google.
Had HP that ability, Paul would be on a very large boat in the middle of a very blue ocean.
Shoot!! We'd all be on slightly smaller boats right beside him!!
LOL, likely not me.
I'm already on the first page for many of my keywords...
Unfortunately, they are equivalent to "purple pigeon poop".
Yes, and he's choosing not to use it because he doesn't like boat or oceans.
No one has that ability. You are misinformed.
Look, I'm going to be blunt with you. Your hubs are not of a quality that they SHOULD be on the front page of Google. No amount of SEO in the world is going to make them good enough unless you fix them.
If you somehow manage to trick Google into putting them high in the ranks, all you will be doing is disappointing readers who actually came looking for information.
QAP was right in de-indexing your hubs.
Melissa you need to do to bed because you can't play nice. What is wrong with you. Play nice or go away.
I was playing nice.
I was also being truthful.
It wasn't a personal attack, more of an explanation.
Now, if you would like help getting them up to quality standards, I'm sure that anyone here would be glad to help. Otherwise, all you are doing is wasting your time. The rules aren't going to change for you.
Melissa you are a very poor judge, and that is not the purpose of forums.
Actually it is. You want to complain about your hubs being unfeatured and have everyone judge HP for it, the fact is it lies on your shoulders.
And I know how to read English, I know what grammar errors look like, I know when an article spends 500 words telling me absolutely nothing and I know when the writer doesn't care a bit about her readers.
Writers that care about their readers want to offer them information and they want it to be in the best way possible.
Melissa is not a poor judge - she had to pass a tough test in order to review hubs, and she shares her knowledge of that process here. After seeing how she was treated here, I read a few hubs as well. I agree they need to be improved. For example, nobody will search for an article about a broken refrigerator and a binder clip. Unless it can be made useful and have SEO elements, it will not get traffic.
This is not HubPages fault. The Internet has changed, and 'hubs' that once slid by or even made money in earlier years not only don't get Google traffic today, they bring the site down. The few hubs of yours that I read need to be reviewed for errors (hint - if you're talking about where the President lives, it's White House, not Whitehouse), they need to be longer, they need to be screened for photos with watermarks or other prohibited elements, they could use more capsules and images and the substance should be enhanced to avoid blog-like content. Those are just a few tips. I don't have time to list them all.
If Hubpages has no SEO then we shouldn't be writing for them at all.
For my blog on Blogger I take care of my blog and putting it out there but Google is the master behind, and because it is its tool I have a stronger SEO when I publish my blog.They push my stuff to the top. I don't have to pay money.
The other platform I write for has SEO and it put my writing near the top for my topic.
If Hubpages has no SEO you better quit now because the company is junk. They are the company who is backing your writing. They invited you to write on their platform. They are nothing. They have no marketing skills. That is why you are using their platform.
Everything is about SEO. You can share your information on social sites, but you depend on their SEO just as they depend on you to write.
Exactly. You fix it...it's in search engines..,you get readers.
You whine. Nothing changes.
I have a pretty strong social media network. And, yes, I repost my articles ALL the time. I've gotten thousands of views reposting. The reason is simple. My following on Facebook grows constantly. When I repost something from six months ago, hundreds haven't seen it. It's new to them. For those who were following me at the time, they may have seen it or not. If they did, they may not have had time to click and read it, but they may have that time now.
Of COURSE repost it. That's the whole idea!! If you're doing social media correctly, you will have new followers who have never read your old stuff. It's new to them!! If they "like" it, it goes to their readers and spreads.
How on earth do you expect Hubpages to "promote" your hubs? I write for a niche market. Hubpages would have no clue where to find these people, however I know EXACTLY how to find them. I AM them. It was a breeze to snap into that market and to promote my own hubs. If I left that up to Hubpages, I would never have seen payout.
You're expecting Hubpages to know how to promote my articles on the sport of dog agility that are written for the high level competitor, writer B's articles on how to repair old Sylvania televisions and writer C's articles on where to get the most precise surveying equipment. Exactly how is Hubpages supposed to know that most of the high level dog agility competitors are networked on Facebook, that the old Sylvania television repair people are networked on Yahoo Groups and that the surveying guys and gals are all on three different forums. If YOUR the expert in these fields, YOU know this information, and if you're writing about these topics, I'm assuming you ARE an expert.
I am sure glad Hubpages doesn't promote my articles because they'd never find my agility readers. I, however, know exactly where they are. If you don't know where your readers are on-line, then either you're expecting SEO results to give you views or you might want to reconsider your topic.
That is the sort of Facebook "friend" I unfriend immediately. I am not interested in having people's turgid prose forced into my FB timeline. Those who do it become persona non grata straight away.
These aren't my "personal" friends. I have my own writer's fan page on FB, and I post to my followers who like my page specifically to get my articles on agility. You can find my fan page from the link at the bottom of almost any of my hubs.
Doesn't everyone have a fan page?
It doesn't matter that you can't "repromote" it on social media sites. You should aim to get most of your views from search engines. Improvements you make to your articles WILL help them rank higher in search engines where they can be found by people beyond your circle of followers on social media sites.
One improvement you can make is to stop writing short articles on broad topics. I noticed you have a very brief piece on the TV show "The Borgias." Ask yourself if you were surfing the web looking for information on this show, would you go to your hub, or would you go to Wikipedia, IMDB, or a Borgias fan site?
If you choose to write on wide topics, no amount of SEO will ever help you out rank Wikipedia, IMDB, the Mayo Clinic, or any other well-established authority site. Google is simply not going to place your short overview articles ahead of longer articles that exist on authority sites. You have to find topics that are not already well-covered by other websites.
Your best bet is to start narrowing your focus so you can get readers who type very specific search phrases into Google. Overviews of particular episodes on The Borgias, for example. Or in-depth character analysis comparing the TV portrayal to the actual historical figure. I have no idea if that would get a lot of search engine hits, but I know it's more specific than what you have.
It isn't HubPages fault if you ignore this advice and find that your articles don't rank well. HubPages' platform works well for people who research the competition and choose their subjects wisely.
You don't need to repromote it. Those links will still be there.
Once again, I think you've been given some bad advice on how to get readership for your online writing. Social sharing gets you some immediate traffic but it's always a drop in the bucket compared to other avenues.
As for someone getting "reFeatured" after making insignificant additions - yes, that's going to happen. The QAP raters are human beings and their opinions will differ. Again, I'm not saying I like the QAP process but I understand why HubPages has chosen to do it. They're fighting for their survival here, like most rev-sharing sites these days, so they have to do something. It's their site, it's their right.
The box you've quoted is referring to a Hub that has been unFeatured for quality. I was only pointing out that it's also possible to be unFeatured for lack of traffic, and I wasn't sure if you were aware of that, so it was possible that was the problem.
It sounds like you've been getting some very misleading advice from somewhere. Which isn't surprising, because there are plenty of people out there posing as "internet gurus" who are full of misinformation.
As Marcy says, Hubpages does not promote any Hubs, featured or otherwise. It merely provides a platform for publishing.
Squidoo, Infobarrel, Wizzley are the same. So is Wordpress and yes, even Blogger. Blogger is owned by Google but Google doesn't show favoritism to Blogger blogs, because it's not stupid - it knows Blogger is dominated by amateurs writing cr@p blogs, so favouring those would destroy the reputation of Google's search engine.
None of these sites, including Blogger, does "SEO" for you. Search Engine Optimisation is what you do to your own articles by choosing the right topic, finding a range of good keywords, etc. If you are on a site that's claiming to "do SEO" for you, then I'd be curious what they are actually doing.
For each and every hub writing matters alot, what we want to say and what others are getting , if is not the same then its really a the waste.
Totally Not what I was saying. But then, I am not surprised at 'blind loyalty' here.
http://jobview.monster.com/telecommute- … 30111.aspx
Newspaper ad..........observe. Done answering any comments here. Not out to change those who have blind loyalty anyway.
Hahaha. No blind loyalty here. Just learning the hard way. I had my big spit a couple years back http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/77191
"..... On HubPages, mothers share their top parenting tips, veterans publish advice for enrolled military personnel and military families, independent entrepreneurs reveal their hard-learned business lessons, retired professionals distill decades' worth of invaluable industry experience, and countless other fascinating individuals share their unique skills with millions of interested readers. ....."
They forgot to mention me!!
It should have continued with "... and then there's earner, who writes rubbish, but a lot of it just works. As they say, if you throw enough *** some of it has to stick.."
That ad says
I don't feel like an employee
"Employee" is a more than a little deceptive. They should add: "straight commission only."
HP was once advertising for blog writers. That's how some of those 'blog-type' posts about what people ate for breakfast and what they did over the weekend ended up on this website.
We aren't in the category of "employee" (which comes with quite a few rights and protections), so that feels a little deceptive to me.
As far as I am concerned, to be labelled an employee is an insult. I don't care about the perks it might involve, I do not want to have that status. I stopped being a wage slave in 2003, because I was sick of concepts such as "team work" and "corporate culture" and fed up of being "managed". As a freelance translator, I regularly "sack" agencies that think they can treat me as if I were an employee. It is laughable that some web site on which I have posted a few articles, which bring me a few pennies now and then, is using the "e" word.
I think some of my stuff is almost creative. I have a 100 hubs - all of which have somehow passed the QAP test.
OK, I got rid of 200 that were 'too' creative - not keyword researched, not attractive enough, not anything enough for the internet.
It's a shame in a way but the world lost nothing.
I do think that pure creative, for the love of it and to hell with traffic, may as well be on a personal blog or site. Even in a handwritten diary. It's easy enough to do. HP had to make a call and they can't read 6 million pages individually and assess them.
Oxford University Press - old established publisher - got rid of their poetry division. Poor poets. No one reads it - not enough to justify the expense in maintaining.
It hacks me off when my brilliant creations get no traffic but it's a game. HP, Google and the internet audience require something that at least a few people are looking for. HP are trying their best to manage the impossible - millions of pages, thousands of writers.
I don't know what the natural churn of people who sign up, write two pages, fail to make anything and leave - is. Or how many of those 36,000 were lapsed, useless, etc. It doesn't concern me. People move on or stay - it's the internet.
You want to know how I am doing? Awful.
Who's fault is it? Mine.
What to do? Learn, improve, move on or give up. The world won't stop spinning.
I was pondering whether to write/dedicate a hub to your awesomeness..... I might just do it if I get stuck for ideas.
Oh no, stop it! Check how many people monthly search for me and then write about Snoop Dog instead.
Snoop Dog doesn't have the same awesomeness.... and he can't draw stick men.... or provide stick cats on demand
On the contrary, there are over 20,400,000 searches on Google per month for poetry and 30,400,000 searches for poems. There is high demand.
Oxford University Press is an academic press with non-profit status, not a commercial press. It stopped publishing poetry because it couldn't compete with commercial poetry publishers like Faber.
Online publishing has a different protocol. I published a new Hub that was indexed on Google June 11th. It now ranks #11 on Google search results out of 9,510,000 competing pages for Divorce Poems, because Google liked my SEO.
Like any other Internet writers, poets with an aversion to SEO will find that Google reciprocates that sentiment.
Very good. I found it on page 2 of Google. Excellent hub, not that I know anything about poetry. Or divorce fortunately.
I checked "Poetry SEO" because it sounded like a fun thing to. No searches. It still might be fun though. I already have a couple of poetry pages - so it might add to my poetic canon.
I checked my "Poem about Google" hub. It's also at the top of page 2 out of 59,200,000 matches. 59 million. It is insane.
The drool of the me generation is not poetry. This is poetry:
And greedy Avarice by him did ride,
Upon a Camell loaden all with gold;
Two iron coffers hong on either side,
With precious mettall full as they might hold;
And in his lap an heape of coine he told;
For of his wicked pelfe his God he made,
And unto hell him selfe for money sold;
Accursed affiliate writing was all his trade,
And right and wrong ylike in equall ballaunce waide
I know it's poetry because I don't really understand it but it makes me feel guilty.
Huh? I scanned it and then thought "Oh I'd better try and improve myself". So struggled through it again.
"Accursed affiliate writing"?
I'm shocked that you didn't recognise that well known quotation. Most educated stick drawers would at least know the style of Edmund Spenser.
He wasn't merely the scourge of Irish catholics and worshipper of the Virgin Queen, he also had it in for anyone who wrote stuff like 'Ye 10 Beste Bodkins'.
Our Edmund. Hated affiliate writers.
He wouldn't pass the spelling checks..... so was clearly just a jealous hater
I would like to write you personally, I agree with your findings and never have made anything from anything I have written have over 100 Hubs. great 87 score. Please write me on hubpages
All of my hubs are published and Im pretty sure I am the only one who finds them interesting.
I assume, maybe wrongly, that the ppl judging our work are qualified... and if not, then I want my money back.
I came to Hubpages as a tacky affiliate, to make money. I am not a creative writer. I write legibly, factual pieces about "fluff and stuff that interests me".
Writing here, with the rules, has changed the way I write and it is making me try to write better researched pieces. Although I don't feel I am making as much/or more money as I used to (which is a shame).... I am now less embarrassed by my writing
It saddens me that the more time I spend writing does not equate to a bigger income, but I think that's because I lost my "greedy affiliate" edge .... and maybe, with practice, I can blend my two styles together more effectively, so the pennies start flowing again.
I keep hearing about writers leaving for "better places." What are these better places, and what constitutes better? Is the pay better, or do they just like creative writers better?
They are unhappy with the new changes that have been put in place in terms of quality control. (There is some question of length of articles and quality) and the re-evaluation of articles.
700-1200 word articles layout etc and promotion of articles.
So they have gone to sites that uncritically promote creative writing... Perhaps they should enter creative writing contests for a better payout lol.
If you could write a quality poem of 1200 words, I will call you the Homer of the modern times.
As for payout, most creative writers are not making a living on the internet and I very much doubt anyone else is making substantial money no matter what they write
Writers make pennies unless they hook up with brands or get published in a magazine and present a proposal or win a contest or publish a book.
Agreed. Creative writing rarely/never makes money on the interwebs if it's simply left out in the open. Pearls before swine and all that.
If that offer is for anyone, I will publish one on HubPages next week. But, you have to promise to read it and call me Homer.
Considering that I think that hubpages site has gone down hill on their end of the marketing. I went to one person's homepage and saw the number of pageviews they had amounted to what I had for one article I had going viral. Hubpages could provide better support for their writers work.
As far as creative writing, to get better at your craft I think it could open the door to opportunities if you entered in some creative writing contests. If you look on the web you can find them. There are lots of creative writing blogs. There are a lot more areas to explore. You can still write on hubpages, I would just say explore new opportunities.
You can't base Hubpages authority as a site based on just one person's views.
If you write about "Gold flecked Chinese brand crossed euphemisms in the European market" you'll get minimal views on Hubpages OR your own site if there are only 3.5 searches per month.
Another site I write for tells you the most popular topics that are searched in general, and in the topics you have written about.
Well the naysayers can torment us but without bragging I would like to occupy this thread for a moment.
I have established quite a reputation on the internet, writing for young people, with some silly jokes about cheez (spelt wrong for their amusement) and also including important lessons for them about table manners. By combining a little humor with subtle hints about social skills I think I am onto a winner.
In fact, after only two years of this, I have made almost thirteen dollars. A sum which I think a lot of lesser writers will be impressed with.
If anyone wants to read how I did it then I will of course be writing a page on SEO and Writing Success which should prove quite popular.
I'll sign up for that. That's an impressive income for somebody without even a head round their features!
You know I've been considering tweeting Matt Cutts your googleman is ok piece. Of course he would prolly ignore it.....I'm sure he gets way more tweets than he reads. Or he could be offended.
But there is a tiny chance that he might like it and retweet it.........and then you become famous overnight.
It does feature him wearing a skirt and I'm not entirely sure he has a sense of humor. However you got me thinking and briefly I imagined one of those Google pictures, the ones they so amusingly accompany their search box with sometimes, being one of my stickmen. Perhaps even Googleman himself with his laser cat-killer.
The sad truth is that I do not have 100% excellent material. A few better pages in among the usual half-baked partly done slapdash idea. I have a niggle that everything needs to be high-quality which is a pain.
Google already has a stick man. Matt Cutts beat you to it.
I hate to say it Mark
but on the creative writing front, your take-no-hostages (or upset them in anyway)
At least my toes don't curl up when I read your stuff.
And, from time to time,
my lips do.
I think Beth deserves a mention too.
Her work on silos left my toes uncurled
but my hair on end.
Something wrong with
Almost fell off the damn screen
Thanks Will, I appreciate how hard that was for you, not just in spacing terms. Your reference to Beths "silo" work intrigued me so I read it in stunned silence. Not sure what comment to leave. "Great hub" doesn't seem to be quite the ticket.
I'm not sure
why we're bringing
into all this
i like it.
(And GAnderson, it's a fair cop. As of yesterday, I've finally passed the $25,000 mark in lifetime earnings in tentacleland, yet they've honked me off with their flailing so much that I can no longer recommend the site. It's ironic, since I seriously became active on Hubpages after Panda first clobbered it, because I was curious to see how the site would dig itself out. I didn't always agree with the steps taken, but at least there was method to the madness. I am far less optimistic about the way Captain Calamari is going about damage control.)
You're not a fan of the Great Aunt Edna approach to internet marketing I take it.
See, I geek. I write for fellow geeks. And yes, I figure out what my fellow geeks like to buy because I need the mooonies, but I understand that my readers are not on my pages to read about me. They're on my pages to find whatever they were searching for. So my job is to figure out what they're looking for and give it to them.
Only I can't, because when I go to update something and republish, I hit a filter. Then I have to put in puff, junk and filler until the filter stops waggling at me.
I hate puff, junk and filler. My pages are already too long for readers as it is without adding fecal matter.
Greekgeek is cranky.
So in a way, I empathize with the OP, even if I am not feeling that way about Hubpages.
If they are totally p*ssing you off, GG, then that is something! You are one of the most level-headed people around and you have some great posts over there in tentacle-land that I still often refer to now and then for info.
I can't help but agree with you though. Their approach doesn't seem to make any sense. They want us to improve our lenses (fair enough) but then they slap us down by locking our work, giving vague explanations, then not green lighting it or providing any explanation, even though we hang around for weeks (well I do!).
I am close to moving material out of there, even though it has made money for me and the tentacles previously. They seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater!
That dupe filter is the real killer and it's been killing the site for a long time. The '80:20 originality pact' simply meant that a lot of writers wrote 80 empty words for every 20 words that had a relationship to the real world. Readers notice.
And as Greekgeek pointed out, it makes QAP look very civilised, indeed.
I still want to burn the witch, by the way.
I'm too soggy to burn, and you made a typo in there. Funny that, W and B aren't anywhere near each other on the keyboard.
We have to find some scapegoat to sacrifice, even if it's just to appease our own self-righteous anger. Where's that Mark Ewbie, he's a stick person, he would burn well!
I think you might be a bit tough to burn, Melissa, lol. Anyway, we need your QAP skills to root out those heretics who revile money.
I think we should leave the typo makers, unburnt.
I kept meaning to write over there. Good thing it always annoyed me too much to bother!
It's all about what you try to do there. I have never been very successful at Squidoo payouts, ie. tier payments (it was a rigged system - seriously) only getting $20 - $30 a month. I only used the Squid for product pages, not content like on HP.
But, my affiliate sales, using my own links, not Squidoo modules, has done very well. That's why I never worried about their gamed tier-system payments.
I still add an occasional product page when I find good long-tails for them.
But as Greekgeek was implying, Squidoo has gone overboard in their reaction to their Panda hit - a LOT worse than HP ever did.
Just to clarify - HubPages does not 'promote' hubs - it offers a venue for publishing. Hubs are either published/featured, or not. But they do not 'promote' hubs - we do that for our own work. Over the lifetime of the site, from what I can tell, the Internet world has changed drastically, and content that could at one time be published here without affecting the site's rankings now causes the entire site to decline. The quality standards for which Google filters have tightened considerably.
If quality is the only issue (it looks like that's the message you're highlighting), you are in luck. That is far easier to address than an 'engagement' issue would require. You can make improvements, have your hub(s) reviewed again through QAP and they will again be featured. I'm not sure what people are to do when a hub is unpublished due to 'engagement.' Many high-quality hubs might fall into that category.
As WryLilt says, HubPages is a business. Every business has a right to set criteria and requirements that contribute to its viability and success.
What is this QAP?
I have been absent for HubPages for quite some time. I used to do quite well on here and my confidence was great.
But I keep seeing more and more people leaving HubPages over the past year...
I personally am thinking about starting from a clean slate on another account and spend time on writing articles like I used to. However, I am not very confident that anything is going to Rank Well in Google Search Engines...
So what is QAP? Is it a process that determines whether or not a Hub will be featured or not?
Hi, David -
Glad to meet you here, and I am sorry for using acronyms and other Hub Code! QAP stands for the Quality Assurance Program. Hubs are reviewed for various elements such as the quality of writing, the use of 'media' (which means photos, videos, etc.), and other qualities. The ratings are roughly from 1-10 in three broad categories. All new hubs go through this process before they are 'featured,' and once they are 'featured,' the hub can be seen by search engines.
There's information in the Learning Center and elsewhere that explains how it works. The QAP reviews are done by MTurk, and people can sign up to do the reviews and get paid for it.
In addition to QAP for new hubs, the site is now sending older hubs through QAP, so you may find some of your hubs have been unpublished due to either quality issues or perhaps 'engagement.' Quality is self-explanatory (unless people can't figure out what caused the hub to be unpublished). Engagement is tougher - we think it means low traffic, but we're not sure. You can tell which hubs might be unpublished for these reasons by looking at the round icons on the far right of your list of hubs on your accounts page. The guide at the bottom of the page tells you what the icons mean.
An easy way to see how the QAP works is to get on the Hub Hopper (on your accounts page, a link at the top saying to 'Hop some Hubs'). The Hopper now defaults to the exact system the MTurk people use to rate hubs. There are three sliders to the left of each hub, and if you slide the bars back and forth, you'll see what each rates, and the differences between getting a four on a hub or an eight, for example. The goal is to have an average of eight or above (rare), but the minimum is more like an average of six. However, so far the site doesn't tell Hubbers the specifics of their ratings. Probably because it would be technically difficult to implement that, and also because they're monitoring things closely as these new quality features have been rolled out.
I know this probably doesn't answer all your questions, but maybe it's a start. Try jumping on the new Hopper and you'll see quickly how the rating system works. And check out the Learning Center, etc. Also, just do a search for Forum topics on the QAP or on Quality, and you'll find several threads by the staff over the past six months or so.
Hope this helps!
You know Marcy, you are just a really nice, helpful person.
Thanks this has helped me a lot!
I have noticed some of my hubs have been unpublished. Mainly, ones that I wrote a long time ago or ones that did not bring in much traffic at all -- which I suppose would fall into the "Engagement category."
This is an interesting system, however, I do hope it benefits aspiring writers and hubbers in the long run and I suppose the short run as well...
I'll check the Hub Hopper out! I used to use it a long time ago. Most of what i seen was either spam, poor quality (less than 200 words etc..) or copied content -- which I believe was one of the main reasons why Google Algorithms disliked HubPages. Too many people would make accounts that did not have original content or did not write a full article. And if they did all the hubs were just to promote their site.
You are so right about the large number of low-quality hubs the site used to have. Many of those have been unpublished already, due to either the QAP or do the site's algos picking up on problems. I agree with you - the new process will help new writers here, and will also help those who have been here for a while. If any of your hubs have been unpublished, just go back through them and look for proper use of photos, poor quality photos, mistakes or things you may have overlooked, the length (the site now requires at least 500 words, I believe) and other things that could have caused them to get unpublished. It's not unusual for really 'old' hubs to need to be refreshed.
Yes, definitely jump on the Hopper for a bit! I've noticed a big improvement in what we see there since the quality requirements have been implemented. We still see duds or really bad content from time to time (sometimes several at once), but you can always report anything you feel is below standards.
Nice to meet you here!
Burn the witch! Burn the witch!
Let us (the mob) dunk her in water and see if she floats!
Or maybe everyone should calm down and think everything through rationally (rather than ranting and raving against HP or whatever)? Now that would be a first for a forum thread!
I agree with Will. Although ranting and raving does have certain appeal... It just doesn't get you any traffic or earn you any money...
i had the same feelings too, last week. I wanted to pack my bags and head to other websites but some nice hubbers held me back. I stayed on and they are the ones who kept commenting my hubs. Greatly appreciated. I am sure you have some hubbers who are your frequent visitors. Do stay on for another month and see the situation. Things will work out well if we think positive.
We have all been there. I remember threatening to leave and the kind Hubbers offered to pack my bags for me. Of course I didn't really need bags, because its the internet and you can just log off, but I was grateful for their offer.
They also offered to show me the door and gave me links to various train timetables.
Some of the poets constructed a charming leaving poem for me where they rhymed a lot of words with duck and cough.
So I have been persuaded to stay. I am working on a page that I believe may eventually pass the QAP controls - I only need another 43 words and a picture.
I agree with HubPages in the aspect that, if they are going to un-feature hubs that are considered poor standards to better help the community, then go with it.. I mean, in the end, HubPages will survive and times will keep changing.. Everyone's goals are to make $$$ and things have to change for that to happen..
Good to see jimmythe jock is still here!
As others have said the Internet is constantly evolving - in the words of Bob Dylan 'the times they are a changing'. If you want to write creatively and aren't interested in money, then a site like Wattpad is worth a shot. If you want to make money from writing then try publishing a book on Amazon Kindle. If you still want to stick with content writing then Hubpages seems as good as any other sites around. I'm currently exploring all three options. I believe there is nothing wrong with Hubpages. If you want to blame someone then Google should be your target!
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