Let me preface this by stating I am not trying to be mean or a troll. In fact, I avoid the forums because I don't want to get involved. But with so many posts about the topics I'm about to discuss, I wanted to put in my two cents and to offer a reality check to old and new hubbers alike.
Featured Hubs - So many people complaining that their hub isn't featured. That they will switch to another site, take their content elsewhere, etc. Well you know what? Your hub isn't featured because it isn't good. That's the reality of it. Keep in mind this isn't your site, It's HP's site. If you want your content elsewhere, then go start a blog. But otherwise don't complain about it. Hubs with engaging content, pictures, interaction, etc. will be featured. I have poetry that is featured. It's not all that hard. If your hub isn't featured, then obviously you are doing something wrong. I've seen bad hubs on here. I've seen hubs of those who complain that none of their hubs are featured. You know what? Good! I don't want the poor content to outshine content I worked hard on.
Take a look at my hubs. I worked on each one to make them engaging and thought out. They could still use work, but they are featured. Also, most of my hubs are part of the Editor's Choice program. Have I seen my hits rise or fall since then? They honestly haven't changed. So what? It's MY responsibility to get the hits in. It's not HP's responsibility. So it's YOUR responsibility to make your hub featured.
Traffic and/or Profits Falling - Guess what? It's HP's website, it's Google's ads. They can pay us how they see fit. Sure, I want more money, but if the traffic isn't coming in and changes are made, there is no use complaining about it. If I don't like the money coming in, I can take my content elsewhere. HP or Goggle is not obligated to give us anything. Sure, we write content for them, but there was never a promise of money. None.
You want more money? Then start a blog, go to work, etc. Better yet, stop complaining about it and go write some hubs! It's like complaining about a government. Everyone complains about the politicians, but no one does anything about it. So do something about it and write some more. Otherwise, stop complaining. Some of the hubbers who want to talk and make this site grow are probably sick of it.
So, there is my two cents. Sure I'll get flamed, which is fine. I'm just sick of seeing post after post of everyone blaming HP for problems, when the problems are our own.
You won't get flames from me. I agree with you for the most part.
While I do agree some good hubs get swept up in the processes used to purge the less than stellar ones, I definitely believe that unfeatured hubs have much room for improvement. Heck, I have featured hubs that I go back and improve on. Writing is something that you always have to work at and there is always room for improvement. There is no perfect writer.
I would also add to the people who complain about the changes around here, that while change is upsetting and understandable, at least it is a sign that HubPages is trying to stay competitive and trying to make a comeback. Google Panda was brutal - it hit a lot of websites, including a couple of my own, so I understand that frustration of having to go back, rework, redo etc. to appease Google to get my traffic back up. It also sucks because it isn't like Google gives you a simple explanation for what they want or how to do it. A lot of it is guesswork.
Every platform has its pros and cons. Work with what's good on each one.
I have taken to social media since it's the new generation of getting traffic etc. and my hubs have not suffered that much traffic wise. My editors choice hubs - most of them have seen increases, some have remained the same. I'm with you, it's my job to polish and promote my work and I do.
I also write for other sites, keep my own blogs and work for outside clients. Be proactive - it's always a better choice.
Actually I feel that we have a right to gripe and complain and add our two cents. But with that said, your post is refreshing and right to the point and it makes some very convincing arguments which are true. I applaud you for posting it and support your input. I have griped on featured hubs but deep down I own that they are not featured for a reason and I am still continuing to try to improve them.
Well put davidlivermore !
I'm sure not going to flame you. I agree with you 100%.
It's possible to exist here on HubPages without ever getting a Hub idled or failing to pass QAP. It's even possible to get traffic and make some money. But I suppose it's a lot easier for people to complain and blame HubPages when they fail rather than learn what it takes to have any kind of success here.
Oh my, here we go, the cheerleading has started.... Time for me to take a break from the forum, lol.
I shall get back to you. You will not like it.
I have been too chicken to say what you have stated here and I agree with you 100%. I see people complaining about traffic but mine has increased by about 30% since the Panda update in August. I see people complain about featured hubs and of my 174 hubs only 2 are unfeatured for lack of engagement. I still edit my hubs whether they are featured or not. As a matter of fact whenever I reply to a comment I always re-read the hub to make sure it is error free.
I think we as hubbers should take full responsibility for our success of failure on HP.
Many of your points are valid. However, some are not.
For one thing, not all Hubs are unFeatured because of poor quality. Most people complaining these days, do so because their Hubs have been unFeatured for lack of traffic.
Low traffic does NOT equal low quality. It's possible to have an excellent quality Hub on a topic that isn't searched much. Often they make good income per visitor because they have so little competition, so they used to be ideally suited to long-term earnings on a revenue-sharing site like HP. Now, they can't work on HP - but they could elsewhere. So it's not true that they're not worth moving.
The other thing people complain about is changes in rules. Sure, it's HubPages' site and they're entitled to change any rules they darn well please - and it's good to see that they're making an effort to improve the fortunes of the site. However, sometimes it seems like they're floundering around in the dark - some of their rule changes don't seem to reflect current thinking in webmaster circles, so who are they getting their advice from? I think members are entitled to complain about that, too.
+1, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 % in agreement. What YOU have stated regarding the situation at hand is THE TRUTH. NO ONE in his/her right, logical thinking mind would DARE to disagree with this logically intelligent premise which you have eloquently stated!
Well said! I enjoyed your hub titled -How to Avoid Feeling Nervous When Using a Public Restroom.
If only the other peons were privy to your expertise.
This is a general statement to those who are throwing out insults.
I haven't mentioned anyone in my original post, except myself. While other hubbers have chosen to point out my hubs and my views in a negative light. I, unfortunately, decided to sink down to their level, which I apologize for.
This is why I don't post on the forums. There are some mean hubbers out there, who consider themselves above others for whatever reason.
I'm glad this post sparked such a debate, though. I hope it gets people thinking.
As a previous writer for eHow I have seen firsthand how writers complain about the quality of the writing; on the site, usually pointing out ither writers. The reality is, when steps are made to correct thus, they too are affected. I saw the handwriting on the wall, and started 3 blogs in December. These blogs are what have kept me a float, and surpassed what I am earning on HubPages! Writers write! Take control of your talents and create other streams of income.
Mr. davidlivermore. I get your point. We do need to take responsibility for improving our work and stepping up our game. However, your statement that a hub becomes unfeatured because it's not good is not true in every case, nor is that fair to say. Hubs becoming unfeatured also have a lot to do with changes in traffic, interest in the topic, and the fickle needs of searchers.
You have fortunately chosen to write the bulk of your hubs on very good topics that people are always searching for: jobs, work-related topics, and video games. I commend you for that. Being a good writer also allows you to present these topics very well, making you a successful hubber. However, that doesn't mean that you're a better writer or create better hubs than the hubber with a well-written, quality hub that became unfeatured.
I accept your two cents and bottom line point that, for the most part, unfeatured hubs could probably use some work. I just think your irritation has more to do with the complaints posted in the forums when you are working your butt off to maintain a level of success here on HP. But please don't assume or imply that hubbers (newbie and veteran) who have hubs become unfeatured aren't working equally as hard.
(Yes, all 53 of my hubs are featured so I can offer this two cents without flame. Peace )
I am new to the world of internet writing. While educating myself about the different sites that exist for writers to share their work and possibly, as a happy side-note, earn some pocket money, I was surprised to find that so many people use such sites purely for money-making reasons. That explains the wide range of quality that exists on such sites. One tipster on a site I won't specifically name said that he even posts a picture of a middle aged women in his bio when he writes articles about weight loss or fitness. This seems disingenuous and it made me question how deeply I want to dive into this world. On one hand, I'm glad that more people are writing, but not if it is sacrificing quality and character.
I enjoy the challenge of writing an engaging article that may have some side benefits for both the reader and for me. I agree that quality is up to the producer and I applaud sites that try to maintain a high level of quality.
I can't speak for everyone, but I do know that all of my unfeatured hubs deserve that label. I don't think they are necessarily horrible, but they weren't fantastic, and most would be well suited for another website.
I do wish my overall traffic would go back up though. I can't explain that and I don't believe it is specifically my fault. The majority of my featured hubs are also editor's choice hubs and their traffic dropped significantly for seemingly no reason.
I totally agree. I tend to moan and grumble too! lol! But of course its my fault. maybe I wrote that hub on an off day, or it could be that I just wasn't thinking properly on how to do it. The main reason is just plain carelessness so I do need to go and recheck a few of them. thank goodness there are not that many, but now I said it....!
I agree with Shanna11. Some unfeatured hubs are good quality, but they weren't the right topics to write about. My hubs that became unfeatured were written several years ago before I knew that much about researching keywords.
Three years ago, almost anything that was good quality would turn up on the first page of Google. We older hubbers are spoiled. Now we have to be careful what we write about.
My biggest worry is everyone going elsewhere. The best writers are all leaving. Where does that leave Hubpages? We can't blame them. Some of them rely on the money to live, but we can't desert this site either.
So when site-wide traffic goes down you think it is odd people are unhappy and express this unhappiness because... um, yeah, I don't get it. When bad things happen people complain. Expecting otherwise is a recipe for frustration.
I think those who moan and groan the loudest will do the same wherever things don't go in their favor. I've spent less time in the forums because, quite honestly, the HP related forums are sounding just like the political/religious forums. It's disappointing to see the backlash against HP. No one here sits in their shoes and has the responsibility to make the necessary decisions, knowing that some will work and some won't. Personally, I think if we put more focus on creating original, compelling, well-written content, there would be less need to be so google-centric. Many of our hubs used to rank well much easier in the past, those days are gone. We have to get rid of the mind-set that just because we publish something, it's worth being read and earning revenue. We simply need to write content that is worth being read and that people are actually searching for.
The forums are a small voice on the site as a whole. There are plenty of great writers still publishing on HP.
A few points of disagreement:
1. Saying that all hubs that are not featured are rubbish is simply incorrect. As has already been pointed hubs can become de-indexed because of lack of traffic (the half moon hubs). Suggesting that they are rubbish is somewhat insulting to people, some very well-written hubs have become collateral damage in the idling business (sorry I feel "unfeaturing" is an insult to the English language).
I have to say I think people who are upset because of their half moon hubs are driven by emotions, if it wasn't getting google traffic, what difference does it make? But the idea that all idle hubs are rubbish just adds to the problem.
2. You say most of your hubs are EC. Well a lot of mine are too. Do you think the fact that we've both been through the AP program might have something to do with that? I think there are two factors at work here. One is that I think apprentice hubs were chosen at the start (probably because they had all been read by staff already). The second one is that our hubs are written to the AP "standards", long with a lot of media and all the other bells and whistles.
The fact is that this makes HP staff like them. However, that doesn't actually mean that Google (or even readers) like them. Ultimately it is what Google likes that matters. Perhaps what HP staff think Google wants, is not actually right. Scary thought.
I've read hubs that I thought were much better than my EC hubs that weren't EC, at least according to their writers. Hopefully HP staff will get to them in time. I'm just saying, just because you have a lot of EC hubs, doesn't mean you should put yourself on some kind of pedestal.
3. You say that we are blaming HP for something we are responsible for. I agree that everybody is responsible for what they write. But where you publish your stuff has a huge influence on how much traffic you get. I had lenses on squidoo that were getting 3 figure traffic daily, before they were hit with a penalty. Now I'm lucky if I get 5 views. It's still the same content but Google treats it very differently.
Having said all that, I don't blame HubPages staff for the Google penalty. They've definitely put a lot of effort into trying to figure Google out, and I'm sure they are frustrated too. I guess the only thing one could hold against them is that they allowed the site to become spammed up before panda, but it's easy to say that with hindsight.
I'm just saying you should have some more understanding for why people are frustrated. Many of the frustrated people are actually very good writers, they deserve better traffic than they are getting.
HubPages used to make a big deal of how much money could be made here (remember the success stories?), and they still advertise this site on job sites. So it is hard to blame people for being angry that their earnings have dropped.
Thank you! Totally off topic but have all AP alums been given a hub score of 100 today?
Oh you put this so well I am totally impressed (I wasn't looking forward to trying to say much the same thing without inciting a riot) I guess the supporters will soon change their tune when their in depth and well researched articles suddenly drop through the floor overnight and HP start unfeaturing them (especially the ones that are seasonal in nature anyway so can't be expected to get traffic outside of Christmas, Halloween etc).
Ahh well, off back to Bubblews where most of the top Hubbers seem to be doing very well now (and not by writing rubbish posts either, brief but quality pieces as you know).
I have a response to this...
1. I agree, but only somewhat. Sure, some of them could be great hubs, the majority of them are "rubbish" as you put it. I am sure you have hub hopped. Have you seen how bad those hubs are? There are far more bad ones as compared to good ones.
2. I'm not putting myself on a pedestal at all. But I am saying I took the time to try to get better and not complain about HP that I'm not making money. I also had hubs that I wrote prior to the AP being picked as an EC.
3. HP should say people can make money, because we all do. They never promised how much we would make. To me, the amount I make is a success. Before I had HP, I had nothing. But you know what's better than money? That I am helping others out, getting hits, and being noticed. That's been my main goal.
I respect your response, but feel that's just placing the blame back on HP.
Really? You think most of the hubs that have been idled due to lack of "engagement" are rubbish????
What is your evidence for this? I hubhop too, and yes I think a lot of the hubs I find hopping aren't that great. These are new hubs, not older hubs that are not getting traffic. What does this have to do with idling due to lack of "engagement".
If you think that Google will always send traffic to excellent writing, then you live in a different universe from the one I'm living in.
I wish I could link to hubs here, but I have a few names for you: Bard of Elly, Dale Hyde, Write Angled, Randy Godwin, SimeyC. These are just a few people from the top of my head who I consider to be great writers who've had hubs idled. Have a look and see whether you think they are writers that produce rubbish.
And to absolve HP completely for blame for this site is also pretty naive. They definitely have a responsibility for making this site successful, and I mean that in the prosaic, unromantic generating loadsa money sense. Not the beautiful, idealistic "help people" sense.
They are after all a business! It is their job to make sure this site gets from under the Panda penalty. They've been trying different things for over a year, and none of it seems to work.
I actually sympathise, it must be very frustrating. And obviously it is very difficult. But in the end, if they don't succeed, the site will probably not survive, which I reckon is a bigger issue than some hubbers moaning on forums.
Not to try to include myself in the list of the great and the good - but my 300 hubs are now down to 100. In among them have been a few pieces I put real effort into, most recently a 2,000 word story (fable almost) that dealt with death and dying.
I resent the quality accusation and reject it totally.
To be quite frank - the way to succeed is to churn out review garbage or how to's such as today's HOTD. If anyone thinks that is quality you need your heads examining.
edit: Oh and lol david - I see you have < 100k views. Another expert is born.
Your case is quite sad Mark, because I remember Paul E. mentioning you specifically (I can't remember exactly where unfortunately) when he was talking about HP's new measures. He said that he wanted to design the system to be flexible enough to not penalise your kind of writing.
Obviously they failed at that. But the fact that Paul E. specifically said that he wanted the system not to hurt your stuff, and the fact that he gave you a special mention in his interview on searchengineland (http://searchengineland.com/google-pand … son-149767), seems to indicate that at least he values your hubs. And yet the system doesn't.
+111 I agree and I so wish hubs like his and the other very good creative writers weren't cast off by this system. I think it has turned some really awesome hubbers away and that part is unfortunate.
Yes, I remember that as well and I feel for Paul and his problems pleasing everyone. I don't hate HubPages - believe it or not. But some forum postings wind me up, and I am drawn to them.
Paul has a tough job and possibly not much time or resource to do it. I get that. But I am not having someone say quality when it means traffic., These are two different things.
As for moaning. Doesn't anyone here have a family? Don't they ever moan about stuff? You don't moan if you don't care.
Mark E, you were one of the first ones I read when I came here. What a giggle you gave me and still do. Thanks for making my day when I needed to read something enjoyable and funny!
Never said I was an expert, I was just making a point. Unfortunately, those who have been here awhile feel they can be a jerk about things like this.
I guess when you get over 100k views, you can act the way you do and have others be encouraged by that.
Bravo to you.
I was surprised to see my name included here, but I do thank you for the kind reference.
David, I loved the title when I read it. It got me fired up. Then I saw your score and felt slightly less supportive. lol. Had you written the same speech with a score in the low 80's, I would have been very impressed. As a matter of fact, just about every one on this thread is in the high 90's. I don't like griping either, but I think the thing that has some ppl (or just me) a little off-put, is the fact that at one point all of our hubs were featured... all of them. Then the next day, hub after hub was dropped along with our hubber scores. I didn't even feel like trying after that to be honest and perhaps that plays right into your post being correct. Had I applied myself and done whatever necessary to get my hubs featured again, maybe I would have found success, but the task seemed daunting and I felt a bit disheartened.
I worked hard for my score, and when it goes up or down, whatever. I'm responsible for it. Plus, score means little if you don't have the success to go with it.
We all want to be writers worth reading. If we don't write articles that are engaging and well done, then the work we self publish isn't worth much. One of my highest viewed hubs was endangered of being un-featured, After reviewing the hub, I was in total agreement with HP. There were obvious type-o's and a misspelled word. ( It was embarrassing to see those errors) It wasn't hard to improve the content of the hub either. In many instances what needed to be done was remove "that" from a number of sentences. Nice work Mr. Livermore
My hubs that were unfeatured, were unfeatured for lack of engagement. I did have one unfeatured... uh... just an empty circle, whatever that means. "Strength in times of great weakness." I'm not sure what made that one worse than any others, but it was my sole personal failure... which is funny cause it's about overcoming personal failure. haha. But yeah, are you all saying if we had edited more, it would have brought higher engagement? Hmmm.
I know this isn’t our site but I have one question would HP exist without us?
No, of course not. They would fold. Yet we are still here with more coming each and every day. HP owes us nothing. We can all just up and leave if we want to make the site shut down, but it would take a large amount for that to happen.
To be honest, I don't see that happening any time soon.
Good to see an HP thread. Not seen one of those for a while.
Anyway, must dash - other things to do.
Lol, let me guess, begins with a 'B' and ends with an 'S'
I think the root of the problem is this: Google really considers HP as just another of several "content farms," and it rates those rather poorly for the most part.
Since it is all money-driven, I'm sure you've noticed that the REAL 'top picks' on the first search pages are the top and bottom of the page PAID, SPONSORED ADS for websites that deal with the search terms.
However much money we do or do not make here; however much effort we put into our writing, and I put a lot into mine--(and it shows in over 100 featured hubs)--in the end, it doesn't matter to "The Big G."
And that's my analysis of the issue.
True, which I am sure a lot of other sites contend with. However some of my articles do appear on the first page of results, so I know it's possible for our articles to appear on the first page, and pretty high up.
Yes there are a lot of sponsored results in Google SERPs, but I am guessing wikipedia doesn't complain much about not getting traffic.
Wikihow, which Paul E. often compares this site to, also seemed to get good growth if you can trust quant cast (it hasn't signed up for quant cast traffic measuring so it's only an estimated thing).
So the sponsored results are a problem but they are not an insurmountable problem (they will decrease the views we get, but they will not destroy our traffic).
The problem is the Google penalty. I had hubs that (I think) are really good. A few months ago they were at the top of the SERPs. Now they are on page 2. I don't think the results at the top of the SERPs right now are better than my hubs, in fact I think some of them are a lot worse.
The question is whether Google has put some sort of manual penalty on this site just because it thinks it's a content farm and it doesn't like it. Google denies doing that (it denies that panda was designed to hurt content farms just because they were content farms). I know there was a manual penalty on some pages because of too many Amazon ads, but that is a different thing, it can be dealt with by decreasing the ads.
As long as the penalty is simply algorithmic, there is hope. If Google has basically decided this site should not get traffic because it is a content farm, that is a much bigger problem.
Wikihow is also a content farm, and it shows up at the top of most of the searches that I do, even though the articles rarely answer my question completely.
That is a good point, which suggests that not all "user generated content sites:" are doomed. I've noticed in Paul E's posts and hubs that he uses wikihow as a comparison for HP. He stated somewhere that he thinks their overall quality is only slightly better than that of HP, which could mean that if we just improved slightly we would rebound.
But I am not exactly how he measured wikihow's "overall quality" and whether his quality criteria have anything to do with Google's algorithms. Google might see the two sites very differently.
"E-how" is also a content farm..the content of which is supplied by Demand Studios, for which I wrote for a short time. They are a royal PITA to work with, however.
I agree with Marisa. Like I said, in a forum it is the eyes of the beholder what is good writing. Which other editors like some of my unfeatured articles, which I took all of mine down so they would all be featured hubs on hubpages. Changes can only make us better writers, but at the same time it just depends on what editor is reading your work, and what they are looking for and what format they feel is acceptable for their site. I noticed when a news paper has been following my work, they feel my work is good, and another magazine. So It just depends on who is reading it, and what they're standards are in the moment. I don't take it personally, and like you said, you can always take it somewhere else. I've never wrote for other people, because I have had more success writing from the heart. My top article that I took down on here had a diverse wide audience around the globe, and it was because I was authentic and genuine and could reach the reader. Was the grammar very good at the time two years ago? No it wasn't it but always remained my top article. Did it have a lot of pictures? No it didn't! Did it have subtitles? No it didn't. Personally when I read some of the new hubs and format, I don't want to read through it, because to the eyes your are being distracted by subtitles, and pictures, taking your eyes off the information and content. I would read through more articles people write, but the way everyone writes them today they seem very much longer, and like I said you get distracted with two much on the page. Just my opinion.
I agree, Hubpages is still a wonderful site and I hate it when people slag it off. Over the past three years I have earned so much money from this site, learned so much and made lots of friends. Yes the site is doing worse than it has for a long time, but it's still here and it's still making some of us money.
The members still here who still work hard still earn well. I am on a fraction of what I was money wise but I still work hard here as I owe the site so much.
I am also writing over on Bubblews as many of you are , but my loyalty is still here! It disgusts me when people flock away from this site and then slag it off simple because they are no longer getting what they want from it. You people should be ashamed of yourselves, where is your sense of loyalty.
I don't have a problem with people going and spending their time elsewhere, but why come back here just to post complaints on this forum. If you spent as much time writing decent well targeted content on Hubpages as you did moaning on the forum, then this site as a whole would be doing a lot better!
Hello, I have not been to these forums in ages or HubPages even...
Got pretty disappointed because back in 2011 and part of 2012 I did so well on here.
I am trying to get the motivation to return because I have seen the potential before. But fear that all my articles will not rank remotely high in search engine's and the work will be in vain.
Ahh, the good old days when I could get an article to get at least 100 views daily and even had some go up to 1000+
Guess I just have to not be afraid to fail.....If I don't do anything I'll be guaranteed to fail.
It's just unfortunate that Google seems to look at HubPages as inferior site -- content farm or whatever...
Spammers, in my opinion, really messed up HubPages...
I don't get the word "loyalty". HubPages is a business. It makes money from content with a shared take of the revenue.
I am also a business. In an unsuccessful way of course. I provide my content to this site and hope to make some money.
I object to floating ads. They make my content look like second rate spam. My 'friend' - if that is what this loyalty business is about - refuses to listen to me. They put those ads there, did not ask and do not share the revenue. That arguably breaks the revenue sharing agreement. It arguably, and in my opinion, contributes towards the view of this site from Google.
So loyalty has to work both ways. But in a business sense... it makes no sense. It's a writing site.
As is anywhere else - we owe each other nothing. If the relationship works... fine.
By floating ads you mean the related search thing that goes down the page with you? If so, I agree with you on those. Those are obnoxious and very spammy looking. I get HP needs to make money, truly I do, but there has to be a better way than annoying readers for clicks - the revenue from those is not shared with the writers to my knowledge and that does bother me.
You can advertise without being so intrusive. In my eyes, it makes people not trust the source of the information and move on.
Yes that's the ones. There is a 'sweet spot' at the end of page ads kick in where the entire screen is just ads. It just seems awful especially if the content preceding it is not particularly ad relevant.
I strongly believe it puts people off reading more pages, particularly from the original author. So bounce rate, satisfaction are poor.
Exactly!! These ads get your attention, but that's useless if no one clicks them. And no one will, cause they look spammy.
They are annoying; no wonder bounce rate is high on HP.
I think text ads work best, and get more clicks, but they are light blue here, which doesn't get your attention--they are invisible to the viewer.
If HP staff is reading this, consider these suggestions:
1. Links should have in traditional dark blue color.
2. If possible replace those graphic ads with text adds.
In reading your posts, you are obviously unhappy being on HP. So why are you still here? You have nothing but complaints, I don't see why you stick around if that's the case.
Actually, many of Mark's complaints are valid and he's an excellent writer. In earlier posts he's stated he doesn't hate HP, but he's entitled to an opinion also. He is one of the unfortunate ones with good work that got shafted by the current system in place. Telling someone they should leave is not helpful and it's not true. I think HP should try to find a way to make it where creative writers who are good can also have a place here where they don't get unfeatured.
While I agree that many unfeatured posts are often actually low-quality, it doesn't mean that there are not those who have been unfairly treated with all the changes here.
I stick around because I invested three years here. Wrote 300 pages, still have 100 featured remaining. At one point I was making payout monthly, now it is less than that.
I am not removing pages if they are published. Curiously I may have as much interest as you in hoping the site recovers.
I have tweaked and improved as much as I can bear. I need to see improvement now before I put more effort in.
I find these conversations interesting, after three years I still occasionally learn from them.
I know that a lot of my 'failure' is because I don't do the right keywords, I don't do many how to's or product reviews - so I get or got my appropriate 'reward'.
But before you became an expert HubPages was encouraging creative writing, holding competitions, being a site for ALL writers.
Would you feel a bit hacked off in my position? And I have only been here three years. You should talk to those with six and seven years under their belts.
I agree with you Mark. I would feel much better about HubPages if those floating ads weren't there. Right now, I feel we are doing a disservice to the reader, and Google (and more importantly the readers can't like possibly that. Besides the fact that the money is not being shared according to our agreement.
I feel Hubpages is a wonderful place to learn and grow with writers. I will stay here, because it is where I started writing, and have made tons of friends, and have enjoyed it here. Fortunately writing over 2000 hubs there is no way to keep up with them every time they change the rules, and fix them, this is why I took most of them down. Loyalty is granted, but at the same time you have to expand your awareness. If you want to make it as a writer you have to use other platforms, and get noticed. You also have to have a fan base to sell books. Even writer's magazines are explaining how this works, and you have to promote your work on more than one site. Writer's magazines are encouraging you to take your old articles that are buried and put them on another platform, because they don't get read anymore, and to get your name out there. On hubpages if you're not featured, you're not seen. It's that simple. So I took most of mine down to make sure they are all featured. If they aren't featured the first time around, I move them else where, where they can be seen. It's just that simple. I believe it is just who is the editor as I stated before. All of them are looking for something different, and all have good advice. One is not better than the other. You can grow from all of them. It probably depends on what you're on hubpages for! Of course if you have spent a lot of time on hubpages you give credit where it is due when you become a writer that moves beyond hubpages and are successfully published. Hubpages has been the best site for me to write on so far, and have not wasted my time much else where, but also I have my goals which hubpages is not set up for those goals. It depends on the writer, and where they want to go with their writing.
I don't think lack of engagement is the reason for hubs getting idled. On one of my accounts I have 4 featured hubs(I wrote just 4). All of them have scores above 80. I don't get any traffic whatsoever, but they are still featured. I am not blaming anyone for the lack of traffic though; I didn't even optimize them for search engines--not even keyword research.
I don't think bad writing is the reason either; many good writers complain about their hubs getting idled.
I don't think HP is to be blamed for this; the site is still recovering from damage caused by Panda, and they are trying to improve the standard of writing.
I don't know why people blame HP for less traffic; a lot of people are getting a lot of it.
I know a guy who joined HP 7 months ago, and already has 1 million views!!
I think we are just getting lazier; if it were our own website, we would have to design the site, PAY for it, do a lot of SEO, work on getting links, and than write. Whereas on HP we just have to write; everything else is taken care of.
Google is getting smarter, and we should too!
I created this account to test some things; I'll let you know guys if anything works.
Always Keep Learning!!
Can't you read?? I created this account to test something--this is not my main account.
I probably should stop using this account in forums.
You should only post on the forums under one ID. That's in the rules. Suggest you read them.
Please stick to a persona in the Forums; using more the one account to post in the same Forum thread is not allowed.
So, is it allowed to use different accounts in different forums??
I have no idea. Just a bit confusing that's all. Perhaps you are an experienced person - I just checked the profile you wrote under. No hubs.
I probably disagree with you - whatever ID you choose to use.
Not blaming HP - that part. Idled hubs are idled by HP. Panda does not idle them. HP makes the call because they cannot afford to manually check them.
So I 'blame' HP for idling my pages - none of which subject this site to a Panda slap. None of them are low-rent, copied, spam.
There are quality problems but it could be those pages OR the interlinking and floating ads that Panda does not like. Not one bit of that is within my control.
With the caveat that there ARE no "floating ads" on our hubs, you're probably right. And even then, google may not like those floating links - I'm not sure just how deep they go in determining relevance. That is, the first link, to the link going to the ad, is irrelevant to anything at all; every link is as it is only the information at the end that can be relevant.
The second link, then, is also irrelevant as a mere link without information. Now you are three "levels" deep; does G still care if the ad itself is relevant?
Lol... er... I have no idea! Just don't like 'em really.
Couldn't agree more! I could go on but I won't. Let's face it, most of what I could say has already been said.
I still don't know what's wrong with my "Strength in times of great weakness" hub. Why would it be so bad it's not even featured? I have seen this kind of thing go horribly awry... when someone asks for their work to be critiqued. Some ppl enjoy criticizing the way Jeffrey Dahmer enjoyed people. lol
Oh wait... if it's unfeatured, does that mean you all can't see it?
Oh, thanks. I don't think Im allowed to post my own link in the forum though. If it is not featured, does that mean it is not visible?
I have been avoiding this thread, but for what it's worth:
-- I have been writing on the web for 20 years. Quality writing doesn't always draw traffic, so yes, excellent and informative articles can become unfeatured, and pretending otherwise is the height of narrowmindedness.
-- However, unfeatured hubs can still get social traffic. That's the point. Search engine traffic is for topics that people search for. Of course, there are topics that one can write on which don't get searched. And frequently-searched topics are not necessarily quality topics, since lots of people look up stupid stuff on the web.
-- The challenge then becomes finding meaningful things to write about that people will look for, if meaningful writing matters to you. Sometimes you will guess wrong, just as some of the stocks in a mutual funds portfolio do better than others.
-- You may write great articles that get thousands of visitors a week, but if site wide penalities smack the website where you publish, you've just been given a golf handicap that has nothing to do with your own work.
-- I have some unfeatured hubs, because I choose to write on less-searched educational and thoughtful topics as well as more widely-searched topics. I have published in too many places to spend a lot of time massaging content that didn't happen to take off. I take the time to figure out why it did or didn't work, do more of the things that seem to work, and keep going. Unfeatured hubs (or their equivalent) are part of the business, once you've been on the web for a while.
-- To my annoyance, I don't know what tips to give people precisely because I did NOT get hit by traffic or income losses this summer. Why not? I'm not arrogant enough to assume my content is better than that of many of the writers here who got hit. After all, I lost tons of traffic on Squidoo, even though my traffic is good here. Does that mean that all my Squidoo content, miraculously, is low quality, whereas all my Hubpages, miraculously, are excellent? Not bloodly likely.
-- So I think anyone claiming "My hubs didn't get hit, therefore yours must be low quality" is arguing based on a small sample size and should be taken with copious grains of sodium chloride.
-- At the same time, I do agree that it's not necessarily Hubpages' fault. The web is a difficult market to crack, and just like any market, there are going to be successes and failures. Authors publishing in the traditional printed book world struggle like crazy to get recognized, to get readers, to get books sold. Ease of publishing online does not make the task of attracting readers any easier, and anyone who expects reams of traffic to their pages is an optimist.
I don't see what "fault: has to do with it. Sometimes stuff just happens.
But when bad stuff happens, people will complain.
Sometimes people that complain a lot, don't like changes or extra work (or both).
There are a number of obvious groups in these kinds of discussion.
Two that stand out:
1/There are people who have decided they want to make some money and will learn to use the site to do that. These people write the kinds of article that get traffic here and that pay. This group does not complain much when pages fail, get un-featured etc etc because, overall, they are making plenty of money.
2/Those people who believe that whatever they write is pure gold (because they are great writers) and every article deserves traffic and money. Sadly, this belief usually ends in tears.
Of course, the vast majority of people who don't do well here have no delusions of grandeur. They want to learn and they work hard. They simply do not have the kinds of skills needed to dig out topics that will do well, or exploit a topic if they do manage to find one.
Given the misery of writing failed page after failed page, I cannot understand why they continue. I would like to write the greatest novel since Pride and Prejudice but it is not going to happen and I refuse to make myself miserable trying.
You were born for tragedy, Beth. It will all end in a blizzard, on a lonely hillside, with Lassie howling in the distance.
I would break it down into more than 2 obvious groups;
Your no.2 is very accurate for many writers but I would break the 1st group down a little;
The group that wants to write good informative articles that attract visitors through good SEO and research without trying to game the system.
Then there are the group that will just rewrite the current page that is top of the SERPs and use every trick they can find to get Google to send traffic to them. Some do well - for a while!
Also the group that writes wonderful stuff and then does not understand SEO or competition so fail to get traffic to otherwise deserving pages.
I would throw many fiction/poetry writers into this group as many still don't understand that people are never going to search for something they do not know exists.
You also have the group that seems to think that because they wrote that perfect review of Product X (that they have never seen, held or smelt) that google should send the searchers to their page and not to Amazon directly where they can just buy it without having to read through reams of unnecessary garbage.
I am sure we could add more - all we need now is for Mark to do the cartoons for each..
A guy, by the username EdSaterstad, joined 8 months ago, and already has 1 million views with 46.30% search visits. He mostly writes on gaming and stuff.
So, don't say it's HP's fault!!
I am sure EdSaterstad is most grateful for you for publicising his success, leaving him victim to all the many copiers. Right, no time to post more, must dash and start playing callofduty so I can write about that too.
Other imitators note: I woz ere first. I claim the topic as mine!
Yep, well spotted aalite. I checked them too and that was my first thought. Cover Blown.
Cover?? He has 1 million views--I don't think I am the only one who noticed that. I always wanted to add cartoons or drawings in my hubs, Mark Ewbie draws stickmen; that doesn't mean no one else is going to do it.
Now you'll say I blew Mark's cover too.
At least Mr. Ed has 124 Hubs! There is a guy on HP who got the 10K accolade 11 days ago, and got the 100K accolade the same day! He has two featured Hubs!
I would say that something is rotten in the state of Denmark, except the guy says he's from Chile!
I tried using more search friendly titles for my hubs. Getting more traffic now!
HP is a business - they want money.
Many of the writers on HP also think of their writing as a business - they want money!
Some want fame, not just the fortune, they want people to recognize how wonderful their writing is.
HP has a tough job to do - they will allow ANYONE to write on their site as long as it is in English and reaches a fair standard - even if it is not something that people search for in the thousands every week.
This means that people can write 4 line poems and short stories and other stuff that will NEVER be found through a search on Google or other search engines.
They also allow advertising, amazon, ebay, follow links etc all of which attracts the get rich quick without having to do any real work crowd to fill up the site with pages that are all but identical A CONTENT FARM!!! "Writers" search for high traffic terms and then hundreds of them write 5000 pages about the same subject with just a different slight variation of the keywords.
What tells google a site just exists to make money and has little thought for the reader? Lots of adverts (although their advertising is fine of course!), thousands of pages written around the same bunch of keywords with little difference between them, thousands of authors all chasing money, etc..
While HP allows its authors to easily make money (and it is easy!!) it will always be a target for spam and "get rich quick with no work" people. Unless they can cut out the crap effectively from the site then they will always be on the google sh1t list.
Getting editors to check every published piece is expensive and would make the site uneconomical; especially if they had to check the many thousands of pages that are already done.. So how do they do it? They idle every hub that google does not like - those that get no traffic. But that means that they also idle quality pages that don't get search traffic and probably never will!
If your page does not get search traffic ask yourself why - it probably is not the fault of HP - you are writing about something that no one searches for or you are writing in an area that is highly saturated and competitive. Its your own fault!
Yes we all have to change a lot of stuff because what once google said was ok is now going to get google to skip past you when awarding a place in the SERPS, that is everyone's fault for trying to game the system too much to make money.
If I were a "real" search engine looking to provide the searcher the most relevant answer to a query I would only send them to a site which is dedicated to that subject, written by an expert and without any advertising! But Google knows that people need money to support their sites so they allow advertising within reason, but they can spot the sites that are highly optimized and only in it for the money without any concern for the reader. They would still rather send you to a dedicated site written by an expert however!
So anyway; what can HP do? Well if they really want to get the attention of google they should only allow the VERY BEST of anything to be featured. There should not be 200 permutations of "How to screw in your 100w light bulb bought cheap online from amazon"! But that would effectively get rid of 50% of what is written on here and someone would have to chose which was the best - ah, but google has already chosen which they think is the best - they send traffic to it!! So idle the rest!!
Quality however still needs to be assured, but is hiring MTurkers to give their opinion and then using an algorithm to check if they are about right the best way? Maybe it is the cheapest way but it p1sses people off when they see scores dropping on their "stellar" "perfect" hubs. No one likes to be criticized - I know I don't hell, they chopped the scores of some of my hubs down and I hate them, but google still sends traffic to them and people read them end to end so maybe they don't know what they are doing!
But is what they are doing enough and will it bring back the traffic? Maybe there is still a need to do more......................... but it will make even more people upset...
Can I just say that as one of the so called 'complainers', 'moaners' or whatever the appropriate term is currently here, I do still earn at least 2 payouts every month from my remaining Hubs, and in my time here I have over 4,000,000 views (which would be far more if I hadn't moved certain hubs elsewhere so losing those views from my overall total).
I am still not happy with the way HP have handled things, and whilst Google did punish HP harshly (maybe too harshly), the numerous (and frequently useless) changes HP desperately responded with (and which made it all but impossible for long term Hubbers with hundreds of hubs to conform to) not to mention their lack of support when it came to stolen hubs, is largely why so many experienced and mature Hubbers are frustrated even now (others have left because of this).
Yes I still get over 4 figures a day in terms of views across my remaining hubs, but I am pretty certain that if HP had listened to many of the now voluntarily 'former' Hubbers from 6 or 7 years ago when they predicted problems were going to occur if HP didn't deal with all the 'Indian Actresses/Aunties' hubs and other trashy, spammy hubs on here, the whole Panda problems may never have happened. Unfortunately they were ignored (many of them highly respected webmasters today and then) but their predictions came true.
My income, now down 60%
Oh, Davidlivermore, I don't have time to read through all these comments, but most of my nearly 300 hubs are featured, yet the traffic is done. It's so much more complex than writing well-written articles, but I'm sure most of the people in this thread have already beaten that dead horse. :-)
Yeah, it's about writing pages that have not been covered better already on higher authority sites and it is also about HP getting away from Panda.
One of my great writerly skills is brevity.
I said the traffic is "done," not "down." LOL. Maybe that was a Freudian slip of sorts.
That big, bad Panda sucks.
I like brevity, by the way.
Me too! I have liked it since I was a child... it all started in a one room farm house. I remember saying to my mother, "Mother dear, I do so enjoy brevity!" But she was a harsh woman and she slapped me. I ran crying into the cornfield, "Why can't everyone just love brevity as I do?!" But I was a freak and I knew it. My mothers hand print on my cheek marked me for the world to see. I was like a circus sideshow act. Everyone could see I liked brevity... and donuts. Mmmm donuts. I told my mother I liked donuts and she slapped my other cheek. It was a really bad day in the 37 household, but that's a different story. I mainly just wanted to say how much I enjoy brevity.
The question is "what are authority sites". Because of the panda, Google considers yahoo answers and obscure forums to be more of an "authority" than HubPages.
Traffic is up a bit so maybe the Panda has removed its paw. Maybe not.
It is either a skilled or lucky hubber who has good traffic sent to all of the hubs they have published here.
I know that some people from the first category (who were the ones to read and learn from when I first arrived here) that have left or stopped publishing for their own reasons. I think the new writers and the older ones who stay are the life blood of this site, working out a way to encourage each other would be good for all. Writing online is not as passive as it was once thought the constant need to nurture and alter gets more time consuming the more you publish.
These are just my thoughts on how some of the discontent has bubbled up here.
Non-featured through lack of visits:
Since the introduction of featured hubs; having a small percentage of your hubs getting most of your traffic, has worked against the hubs on the account page that sit at the foot of the page. They are the slow but sure part of the hubs published, not record breakers.These might be hubs that get most of their traffic at certain times of the year but are not considered seasonal, never mind they may still get the half,black half white circle next to them.
Change in Hubberscore:
With our hubberscore we had become use to having one that altered without us being able to figure out why. Therefore we ignored it unless it dropped. Now, with changes in how it is calculated and the altered threshold for 'do-follow', more people are seeing themselves fall below this threshold and some are not sure how to get over this to keep their published hubs as do-follows.
I think other changes to the site have at times made it more difficult to get a flow through of the traffic that visits pages here.
Sometimes a good idea to improve things has not worked in the way it was predicted to and people feel aggrieved when that happens.
In the time I have been writing here I have learned many things from reading the forum posts. When I first came here the forums were packed with helpful tips and advice offered by the more experienced. Some of it was correct and spot on and continues to be useful. Some the poster thought was correct but with time it was proved that it was not so.
In the same time span, HubPages advice on writing here and also their need to control what was published grew and grew to reach the stage it is at now. This means that some of the hubs published in the 'early days' might no longer match the change of requirements. Unfortunately these are sometimes the ones with the 'age' that are featured higher on search pages. If they are dropped from search or unpublished to be dusted down and buffed up they may lose out on the search recognition they have previously achieved.
For some of us, the goal posts were moved after the game had started. People have left at times because they cannot cope with the need to update content if they have 100 s of pages to work through. I am not one of them, but my hub count is dropping it was at 250 once and is just over 100 now with more non-featured this week it might be less soon. None my pages were removed by staff, all were by my own choice in attempts to improve traffic to my pages that are still here. Maybe here as in all walks of life it is a good idea to try not to judge until as the old saying goes you ' walk a mile in my shoes' .
Would you say that brevity was one of your great writerly skills?
No, but then I have many other qualities that some people lack.
I knew you would say something like that when I posted it. Not wanting to disappoint you of the chance to score points, it is your choice to read or ignore what I say. I hope the 'wry comments' here means that people in the real world get the smiley version of you as then it serves a purpose.
Besides, are you not thankful that I am posting in HubPages forum, helping to keep it alive for free, when others would have wanted to earned bucks with so many words.
Honesty is always a good thing. I have been writing for decades and have learned to thicken my skin and work on my craft. Complaining is a waste of time.
So to recap over this thread to make sure I understand.
I shouldn’t moan ever.
I should disappear from HubPages and take my appalling content with me
put more effort in to try to be like the successful ones on HubPages.
None of my opinions count for anything because I don’t know how to write a review page or follow the keyword principles outlined in the Apprentice course.
My content and writing attitude is laughable and pathetic. Defending that would be ludicrous and an affront to the decent hard-working Hubbers who know what they are doing.
I should not mention that my earnings for nine short postings at the weekend on Bubblews are more than the month so far on HubPages with my 100 featured pages. Obviously they are of such low quality and interest to anyone – that is what I deserve.
At no point should I say “Well they were getting three times as much income a few months ago” because the traffic drop is also clearly my fault.
I am grateful of course that people who have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of what I am trying to do are keen to advise me on how I should be more like them. Surely, if we all produce the same content – that must be the way to succeed.
A heading, a keyword title, 750 words, a quiz, a poll, an Amazon product. That is the Holy Grail and it is the only thing people on the internet want to read.
The truth is that most, the vast majority of people on HubPages make little or no money. They do it as a hobby, as fun – and they stay and enjoy the social side. They are largely and wonderfully supportive of others. That is what clinched HubPages for me when I arrived – decent people offering advice, help, encouragement.
What those who would turn me and others away don’t realise is that without that vast army of relatively unsuccessful writers there would be no site. Telling them to stop moaning, work harder, write better is probably not the answer. Showing a little sensitivity to people who are lost, miserable, confused and sometimes upset – because last years writing isn’t wanted – might be.
Some people put their heart and souls into their writing. Unpublished is a cruel reward.
And Will. Whatever your reply my answer rhymes with “Duck Cough”.
+1111111111111 for Mark! My finger got tired, there should be more digits.
+1 You speak a lot of truth. Don't be so self-deprecating. You're great!
I really don't understand why non-AP hubbers dislike AP hubbers so very much.
It really turned my writing around. It taught me a lot, and it's a shame others couldn't take advantage of it.
Mostly, we learned to be nice to one another, which is a lesson you desperately need to learn.
Actually, I'm fond of you guys and have found you to be quite lovable.
Life taught me never to brag, so your precious AP program let you down big time there.
So, you have the knowledge, and the expertise (being a great writer). Would it make you feel better if you knew that some of us learned what you were taught, through experience?
Yes I applied for the AP program and yes I was denied.
That pissed me off big time because I needed the money - they pay AP's more than I needed the knowledge.
You are sitting there on your $50 a month minimum talking down to us serfs. Who the Hell do you think you are?
I am serf, and never thought myself to be otherwise. But I did used to earn 10 times on HP to what I do now.
Does that make me a loser? Or are my hubs 'rubbish'\? Get a grip! That;s all I can say to you.
I was denied entrance into the apprenticeship program too. Do I now hate all writers with an "a" on their profile pic? Shoot, no!!
Instead, I went to the Learning Center and started learning. Looking back at my early hubs that were up when I applied for the apprenticeship program, I can see why I was not picked. My writing was rusty and stilted. There were embarrassing grammatical errors. I didn't understand lay-out at all. I wouldn't have picked me over other talented writers either.
I am hopeful I have improved, and I do hope one day to be picked for the apprenticeship program. I have much left to learn.
What I don't do is hate and throw stones at those that made the program while I didn't. There's no need for that. In fact, I read their hubs and learn about writing on-line from them.
I have no idea why people hate the apprenticeship writers unless it's jealousy, and jealousy is not a good look on anyone.
Maybe they thought certain Hubbers needed the help more than others, and you weren't one of them Izzy I never applied, I literally had no interest in the program at all.
For the record I don't hate any of them, many are my 'friends' on here, but a few are a bit elitist about it like they are special or something. Would love to compare those people's overall views to mine, in fact even on a hub by hub basis.
'Elitist' is putting it mildly. Some think they own HP, the way they are carrying on.
Look at me, look at me, I know how to write for P, I have been through the program and now write better than you".
Well, away and enjoy it. May your sporrans be full.
Maybe we should form a denied apprenticeship club.... some of us learned the hard way, and I am sure we are doing better than some!!
I got denied entry into a top university program once - not because I wasn't good enough - but because I knew more than the people running the program and they were honest about it! I used to help out with lectures and writing the presentations and take the students on "field trips"...... So I personally just accept that those of us who were not accepted on the HP program were just too damn good in the first place - lol
As to what they did; well I found one lot of hubs from one writer that were so full of glaring errors that the I just had to contact the writer, who then sent me loads of emails to get the facts right in the hubs!!
But they had done their keyword research, attributed their photos, got the right mix of capsules - pity they knew nothing at all about the subject on which they chose to write!! But then there are a lot of non-apprentice writers who are like that too; so maybe I am being unfair.. lol..
But what the hell................. lol
That's not really a fair assessment either. Why does one group have to be "better than" another? I am not one of the apprentices that feel I am "better than" anyone else on here. I think some of the ridiculousness does flow both ways. I swear these forums are sometimes like something you see on an elementary school playground - good grief.
It seems to me that the irritation is not so much against the apprentice people themselves, but against the program in general. It is the program which created two categories of Hubbers and plastered a big A on avatars. (Those in the program should just be glad that it is not scarlet because, seriously, that's what it reminds me of every time I see it!)
When the program was inaugurated in April of 2012, it was with press releases and fanfare and with the plan:
"The company plans to eventually expand the scope of the program to bring on multiple teams each month, and to train successful graduates of the apprenticeship to function as mentors for future teams."
Paul E. made statements to the media that the site was now paying writers to publish content, above and beyond the revenue sharing already in place. That, of course, created some jealousy – even though the amounts paid were incredibly small.
The program promised that participants would be "given insights into digital publishing and taught the kind of writing style, research, multimedia additions, etc. that are successful online." The reality is that HP doesn't know how to drive Google traffic to Hubs nor what constitutes success on Google. And now, apparently, all of the information from the program is available on the site.
Time has passed. The apprentice program has been phased out. Many of the graduates are no longer publishing Hubs on the site. The latest effort is the Editor's Choice award, but – since that program is rife with controversy and writers aren't identified with a big E and do not receive extra compensation – the community at large doesn't feel the same animosity.
One thing that lingers, though, is that graduates of the apprentice program seem to have much higher Hubber Scores that do not, in reality, signify their "success online" and this lingers as a source of irritation to those who are successful online (Google traffic) and have received no explanation for their much lower Hubber Scores.
I would very happily trade my high hubber score for more google traffic. Lets say 1 point per 100 views a day. 2 points per 100 views to my "written for Amazon sales" hubs.
Those concerns, especially the hubber scores, I can certainly understand. I think some of it might have to do with the regularity in which we publish perhaps too? Because we have to do so many per month... just a thought.
I just think some of the venom thrown at apprentices is not called for. Then again, some apprentice behavior has also left a lot to be desired. At the end of the day, it would be nice if we could all just get along. Trust me, the extra earnings in that program were nothing to develop anger/jealousy about . If it were a significant amount of money, perhaps I'd understand that aspect of it.
Maybe. I haven't published in quite awhile-- (and am not AP) so my score is currently lower. ,!
I was at HubPages a year before I did the AP. I was always active before, and my hubber score was always high. The AP didn't affect it. And, yes, can't we all just get along?
Mine was always in the 95 - 100 range also even prior to the program, but I've also always been very active. I think the recent changes to hubber scores are mostly based on the weighted average of hub scores. I do think activity does play a role in the score still though. It would be interesting to understand better what all is involved with calculating those scores - for curiosities sake, but honestly, I never really was that concerned with it.
I was one of those that didn't finish the Apprenticeship program. I quit after about the 4th month. Somehow it ruined writing for me here. I've only written one hub since I belonged to it. I know most people say they learned so many things from it, but most of it was SEO stuff I already knew.
I know David, I know. It is jealousy pure and simple. I mean we are the Chosen ones! The serfs should be hanging on our every word, grateful that we are willing to occasionally come down here from our private forums and share our wisdom.
Instead this is how we are treated! It makes one despair of the human race!
I mean I can't see any reference anywhere to the fact that you are an AP, but never mind, anybody can tell that all the people who disagreed with you did so because they hate APs. Look at the clever way Greekgeek concealed her jealousy! To the uninitiated it might seem like reasoned arguments, but we know better. She just hates APs!
Oh I just realised I mentioned the fact that you were an AP. This is awkward! It wasn't me it was the frog,! It takes over all the time, it is jealous because it wasn't accepted in the program)
I actually do hang on your every word, but mostly cause I don't have cable.
(You put a comma and an exclamation point after frog. That's gonna bug me. lol)
I am an apprentice, you are not.! Also I hope you've noted the difference in our hubscores. The simple conclusion is that a comma before an exclamation point (also open parentheses is now the new standard of writing. It bugs you......tough,!
Ok the above was a joke! I did actually notice the comma and it bugged me, but I decided not to do anything about it cause I've already spent way too much time on this thread. However, if it bugs you too, I shall correct it)
Actually it's now not letting me edit that post. We'll just have to live with it.
I probably should have mentioned it, but I am an apprentice too. I had them remove the "A" on my pic. b/c of my incredible humility. I am also an apprentice for Bruce Wayne, but I'm not really allowed to discuss it.
OMG, an undercover apprentice,!
Who is Bruce Wayne,?
I've really said too much already. He resides in Wayne manor... as do I, but that's really none of your business.
You have it all wrong. It is too soon to reveal my identity, but I assure you, I am not a man.
Im Batgirl! (Please include the low, raspy voice in this statement as it adds authenticity to my claim.)
I called the FBI--told them a 15 year old vigilante is hiding at Wayne manor in Gotham!
They say it doesn't exist. Trying Langley now!
You look different today (really just checking whether I am banned or not, I seem to be ok but Izzy above has been banned. For a comment that lots of people agreed with it seems.
Are you serious? Why do people get banned from the forum?
Theoretically personal attacks on other people. Usually the attacked complains to the moderators and the decide. Of course the line between strongly expressed opinions and a personal attack is somewhat inexact. I'm not sure what bit of what Izzy said is a personal attack, but she is banned (I presume for a day).
Sigh. Ive been banned on more than one occasion although only once did I deserve it. The other time or two they got me on a technicality I tell ya!
and I used to wonder why people did seem to resent the apprentices - I think I am starting to see why in some of these threads. good grief, I hope most of us didn't come out of there so arrogant and looking down our noses at other writers here. It's one thing to share what we learned, but to think that program made us superior as writers in general in any way is not correct. It made us better able to utilize the HP platform perhaps, but goodness, let's keep things in perspective shall we.
You two may not fight. It makes me curl up in fetal position and cry.
Check it out, folks. 98 US rank. Hasn't been that good in quite some time.
Alexa uses data only from people who have its toolbar installed on their browsers. (Most people don't.) Quantcast uses the exact metrics because HubPages has allowed it access to the site for collecting traffic information.
Alexa is not known for their accuracy...
As for Quantcast, there is actual Quantcast code on every(?) HP page that counts the number of visits.
Just because other sites are falling faster than HP does not mean HP is getting better. Our traffic here is only slightly higher than it was 2 weeks ago but still 5Mil lower than it was 5 weeks ago.
In that case, I guess I'll have to write a viral hub to get that 5 mil back. I'm thinking an armadillo porn hub would probably do it.
And if you compare it to two or three years ago [sobs]
I'm pretty sure I am doomed to remain in the 80's for all time, until I get rid of my creative writing hubs.
I'm not an AP either, but I do love brevity. Let's get back to the important part of this thread. I had to look up "pangolin".
National Geographic says," With its giant digging claws, the pangolin is nature's backhoe. And a long, sticky tongue—capable of slurping up thousands of ants or termites every day—makes it the scourge of the bug world." Hope this doesn't get me banned.
I was banned once and was never given a reason why. To this day, I have no clue what caused it.
They never tell you, except when you email them to ask. The reason will usually surprise you.
I got banned for sympathising with a troll for being "culturally deprived" for not knowing about the meerkat commercials. That gave me a good laugh.
Extraordinary. To my shame I haven't yet been banned.
I thought your “Duck Cough” poetry might have worked to get you banned. Obviously, you'll have to try harder.
Well, sympathizing with a troll is a bad idea. When animals rule the world we're going to ban all people who do that.
Traffic is better the last five days. I attribute that to Hubpages too.
Wouldn't you think by now they would have amended the wording to say "Sorry, you are not allowed to post. Hubbers can be very sensitive and, therefore, honesty is prohibited"
Just an observation to throw into the pot......
Does Google like sites where people are hunting for keywords so they write the same page 100 times to target every keyword?
If you found a site with the following titles in it would you trust it or find it interesting if every page contained the same information in a slightly different format and set of words?
How to boil an egg in 3 minutes
How to boil a 3 minute egg
3 minute egg boiling
The 3 minute boiled egg
Boil an egg in 3 minutes
How to get a 3 minute egg boiled
There are literally hundreds of pages on HP for a single subject like this with different permutations of the keywords - each with basically the same content.
Is this webspam?
Should it be penalized?
Does Google Penalize it?
Google probably only send the bulk of the "3 minute egg boiling" searches to just one page despite the million and one permutations available.
So does "no-indexing" or idling the pages that get no traffic prevent Google from seeing us as spam?
Just a question? Is what HP doing right?
But maybe they could actually discuss it with us as grown ups (or maybe they have read the forums and know this is probably not possible.)
Here's my observation:
On a site like Squidoo where there are no subdomains this seems to be more of an issue. I've noticed whenever I target keywords over there, I have to be really sure there is nothing even close already on the site. Naturally I never target the exact same keywords as an existing page, but I mean not even close. Otherwise, it's a long, hard crawl to appear on the first page of the SERPs, even if my page is significantly better than the others.
Google generally only likes to show a couple of results per domain on the first page (unless you're a big player, it seems). If I'm trying to elbow past twenty pages that already exist, I may be out of luck. In those cases, I'd guess Google does see dozens of pages on the exact same topic as spammy, and will theoretically penalize a site. At the very least most of those pages will linger without traffic, and will suffer a sort of penalty, which will in turn hurt the site.
Because of our subdomains here, at first glace anyway we don't appear to have the same problem. While it's still a silly idea to write a page on a saturated topic, or a known spammy topic, I never have the same problem with getting dragged down into the muck just because my keywords are remotely similar, or even because they appear in the meta description, of another page.
So, does that mean Google is more lenient because we have individual subdomains rather than everything on the same domain? I dunno. I seems to me that may be the case, but that's just based on observation.
I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this. It's something I've thought a lot about myself.
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