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Image Attribution Nightmare

  1. healthmunsta profile image96
    healthmunstaposted 3 years ago

    Well, not exactly "nightmare", but I'm hoping someone can help me out.

    I usually get my pictures from freedigitalfotos.net and Wikimedia Commons. For almost all my hubs, what I do is to create collages using these pictures. So one collage can have up to 8 pictures. The boxes under Name and Source, under the Edit Image Capsule have a limit on how many characters they can accept. For example, I can only attribute 2 images out of 8.

    Because of this problem, for most of my recent hubs, I used a "catch-all" phrase at the end of my hub, stating, "All images from freedigitalfotos.net". However, today I found out that as per freedigitalfotos ToS, I should be crediting each of the Image Creators individually next to their images! Which makes sense, of course. But what am I to do now? The Name and Source boxes aren't large enough for me to do that....

    Looks like I'm going to have to stop creating collages, which I very much LOVE to do! D:

    1. The Examiner-1 profile image82
      The Examiner-1posted 3 years ago in reply to this

      Did you try to copy/paste it into the caption box?

      1. healthmunsta profile image96
        healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I didn't try copy/pasting. Does that work? I'll check it out.

        1. The Examiner-1 profile image82
          The Examiner-1posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          That is what I do all of the time into the source window. I do not know how long you meant, mine are always too long for the window. You just click on the window and hit 'end' to see the rest. No matter where I get the photos from I have always done it the same way and I have had no problems.

          1. healthmunsta profile image96
            healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            It doesn't work, btw.

    2. Christy Kirwan profile image
      90
      Christy Kirwanposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I'm really delighted that you're serious about attributing your photos properly, healthmunsta, and I see that you've received some helpful advice from other Hubbers. You may also want to post a request for a collage photo attribution option in the HubPages Feature Suggestion Forum as well: http://hubpages.com/forum/category/6634

      1. healthmunsta profile image96
        healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks, Christy! Feature suggestion is a great idea - why didn't I think of that? wink

  2. Millionaire Tips profile image90
    Millionaire Tipsposted 3 years ago

    You can add a separate text capsule with the attribution information.

    1. healthmunsta profile image96
      healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      I guess that's a good idea, too.

  3. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 3 years ago

    Do you mean hxxp://www.freedigitalphotos.net/ ?

    freedigitalfotos.net has no images that I can find (though you have credited it widely, lol).

    Frankly, I would look for a wider range of sources. Try hxxp://www.morguefile.com/ for one. They don't usually require attribution.

    1. healthmunsta profile image96
      healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

      hxxp://

      0.O

      Now I'm frumbuzzled.

      Lol

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Copy and paste the URL.

        Or select the URL and right click 'go to site'. Exclude the 'hxxp'.

        1. healthmunsta profile image96
          healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Ok, thank you.

          Also thanks for suggesting morguefile. But the reason I was using only one source, freedigitalfotos.net, was so that I could just have one catch-all attribution at the end of my hub. Nevertheless, you've opened my eyes to the fact that I should be using a wider range of sources.

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            You are welcome. I'm off to bake a cake for some blind people now.

            1. healthmunsta profile image96
              healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Wow, that's really nice of you, Will.

          2. Marisa Wright profile image93
            Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The point Will is making is that there's no such site as freedigitalfotos.net.   If you've been crediting that URL, you're not crediting the correct site!

            1. healthmunsta profile image96
              healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              Lol, I understood that later on. I've already started editing my hubs one by one. Luckily, I only 30 hubs to edit. Whew!

    2. healthmunsta profile image96
      healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      By the way, most people properly attributing photos from freedigitalphotos.net, are using credits that go like, "Image courtesy of xyz, freedigitalphotos.net," rather than the whole hxxp://www.freedigitalphotos.net, because that's how the website says it should be attributed:
      "If you use this free image, you must publish an acknowledgement to FreeDigitalPhotos.net and the image creator on the same page or screen where the image is used."

    3. Dale Hyde profile image86
      Dale Hydeposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I stopped using Morguefile due to the fact that you can not use the image unless you alter it...hence the "stand alone" clause in their license which specifically addresses you can not use the image EXACTLY as it is without alteration:

      morgueFile license
      You are free:
      Remix - to adapt the work.
      Commercial - to use this work for commercial purposes.
      Without Attribution - to use without attributing the original author.

      Under the following conditions:
      Stand alone basis - You can not sell, license, sublicense, rent, transfer or distribute this image exactly as it is without alteration.
      Ownership - You may not claim ownership of this image in its original state.

      1. Will Apse profile image89
        Will Apseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Those statements are so clear it is hardly worth restating them but I suppose I will have to.

        Don't pretend that you own the images you find on morguefile.com

        Don't try to sell the images you find on morguefile.com

        On the other hand, you may sell images that contain reworked elements of morguefile pics.

        Their is no need to attribute morguefile pics whatever way you might choose to use them.

        1. Dale Hyde profile image86
          Dale Hydeposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Your English teacher was different than mine for sure, or English is your second language.  I prefer to read the site's words and not what you may think they mean.  As you point out, Will, the one who knows all, they are easy to read and understand.

          However, if you have questions, do as I have and contact the site owners and they will tell you that you can only freely use altered images.

          An afterthought, apparently you have no concept of what "stand alone basis" implies.  There is a thing called Google that will help you understand that.

          1. Will Apse profile image89
            Will Apseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            You should try not to spread your own confusion to others.

            1. PaulGoodman67 profile image90
              PaulGoodman67posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Will's right.  You can use the image for illustrative purposes in a hub.  But you cannot *sell* it to someone else (as if it's your own) unless you alter it in a major way so that it's effectively a different image.

          2. Marisa Wright profile image93
            Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            I thought exactly the same thing, Will.   That's the way it used to be, because I've used many Morguefile photos in the past and I'm positive there was no requirement for attribution. 

            However I just checked the FAQ on Morguefile, and it's changed.  Here's the relevant question:

            "What does it mean I have to alter the image.

            The morguefile license is specifically for designers and illustrators to use the images in a creative process creating work of their own. If you would like to use the image in a blog post, we recommend contacting the photographer and providing a by line under the photo with the photographer's name. This is generally agreed to be acceptable."

            So you now have to contact the photographer if you want to use the image "straight".

            And under the original licence information (free to remix etc etc), there's now a new section saying

            "Under the following conditions:

                Stand alone basis - You can not sell, license, sublicense, rent, transfer or distribute this image exactly as it is without alteration.

            Posting it on a blog post is "distribution".

            I'm so glad Dale brought this up.

            1. janshares profile image86
              jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks, Dale, Will, PaulGoodman67, and Marisa for all of your clarifications. Now you see why a newbie would be confused? You've all been quite helpful. Feel free to point out any mistakes I've made with attribution in my hubs. I'm aware of some and will get to it, one at a time. Going forward, I will use this information for correct image attribution in future hubs and use my own photos when I can.

              1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Well, you can see we're confused too, but that's only because Morguefile has changed its rules!

                The rule is really very simple. 

                1.  If you want to use a photo, check to make sure there's a licence permitting you to do so. 
                2.  If there is, credit the photographer.

                You can't go far wrong if you do that.  If it's a photo site and the site itself also asks for credit, you can credit the site, but it doesn't have to be in the photo capsule - for instance, if all the photos on a Hub are from Photopin, you'd just put a single link at the end of the Hub, e.g. "Photo credit:  all images from Photopin.com".

                Just to clarify Morguefile - it used to be a site where you could use any photo without attribution.  It's changed now:  you can only use the images if you make  "derivative work" (i.e. change it in some way).   if you want to use the images unchanged, you must email the individual photographer and ask permission, and you will have to attribute to the photographer if they give permission.

                1. janshares profile image86
                  jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Sigh. This is too much. Thank you kindly, Marisa, for your patience and help. I completed my next hub but not published yet. I see now that it STILL may be incorrect since the images are not derivitive although resized. I think I may publish it anyway since it comes as close as good enough can get since I did credit the photographers, the site, and included the image url. Ey-yi-yi.

                  1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                    Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Where did you get the images from?  If Morguefile, then you need to go back to Morguefile and email those photographers individually to ask their permission. They'll probably give it, BUT they will probably ask for attribution, and it's quite likely they'll want to be credited directly, not via Morguefile.

                    Cropping is not a sufficient alteration.   You could create a MFP (Made for Pinterest) image by adding text?

                    1. janshares profile image86
                      jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                      Lord, MFP hmm? More work. hmm Yes, they are from morguefile. I will go back and find email addresses later. I appreciate it.

                2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
                  TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Marisa:  Where do you find the licensing info on Morguefile and Pixabay and how do you find the email address of the photographer?

                  Also:  If I create a made for Pinterest photo with text plus other alterations that is from Morguefile or Pixabay and credit the photographer AND the site, will that do?

            2. Will Apse profile image89
              Will Apseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Thx for that, Marisa.

              And apologies to Dale. He seems to have got it right.

            3. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Marisa:  Now I am really confused.  If you alter the photo and credit the photographer from Morguefile, do you still have to contact the photographer?

        2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Dale:  Could you please take a look at a few of my hubs to see if I am doing this correctly?  I often alter the photos, always credit Morguefile but did not know to credit the photographer.  Need some help here.  Thanks.

          1. Dale Hyde profile image86
            Dale Hydeposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Once I learned I had to alter the material prior to using it I never used that material. I don't have the ability to alter photos very well, so I went looking elsewhere.

            So with that in mind, I really could not evaluate your hubs.  Sorry about that.

            1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Dale:  Thanks anyhow.  If you use the free editing tool picmonkey.com it is very easy to learn how to edit pix...and it's also a lot of fun.

              1. Dale Hyde profile image86
                Dale Hydeposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks!  I do like using such things, but time and patience???? well, I lack in both at times, lol.  I may well download that and give it a try however.

                1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
                  TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  good luck

              2. Writer Fox profile image82
                Writer Foxposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                If it takes a second or two to process your edit, the monkey winks.

          2. Marisa Wright profile image93
            Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            The essential rule of attribution is that you're giving the photographer credit.  If you're not doing that, re-check the site terms again to make absolutely sure you're doing it right!  I'm always suspicious of sites that don't require you to credit the photographer, because sometimes they're full of stolen photos (Photobucket is the prime example).

            Pixabay says all its photos are public domain, which by definition doesn't require the photographer to be credited. 

            Each photo site is different but most want credit for their site as well - however that credit doesn't have to be in the capsule (which only clutters things up).   You can put the site credit at the end of your Hub - handy if you have several photos and they're all from one site, because you can just say "all photos from ....".

            1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Marisa:  Here's the problem as I see it with Morguefile.  You cannot credit a photographer if you alter his photo because it then is no longer exactly his photo.  If you do not alter it, then you must credit him, get permissions, etc. This seems pretty clear to me.  If you read the link I posted here to Pixabay, you see that they advise you to tread carefully with personal rights.  Also, the majority of their photos are now those you must purchase, which is why I use very few of them anymore.  This is a very slippery slope for all of us, but in Morguefile's case, the rules are quite clear.  I just wish they had not changed them or at least given us a date for the change so that we would know what is legal and what is not.

              1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You've got it.  I'm sure there are thousands of bloggers (like us!) who have been happily using their photos incorrectly for ages.   It's silly of them to think people are going to check the terms if they're an existing user - they should have a notice on the front page alerting people to the correct rules.

        3. Writer Fox profile image82
          Writer Foxposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          There is so much confusing information in this thread! On every photo on the MorgueFile site you will see this permission:

          "You are allowed to copy, distribute, transmit the work and to adapt the work. Attribution is not required. You are prohibited from using this work in a stand alone manner."

          Can you use a photo from MorgueFile on a Hub without attribution?  Yes, absolutely. Do you want to know what 'stand alone' means?  Read this explanation from the MorgueFile forum:

          http://morguefile.in/community/discussi … -quot-mean

          If there is anything else that you do not understand about using MorgueFile photos on HubPages, you can ask for clarification in the MF forum by posting your own thread there.

          1. NateB11 profile image91
            NateB11posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            This makes sense to me. They don't allow stand alone use, for instance, if someone took one photo and just tried to sell it. But using the photo as part of a long article is okay. That makes more sense to me. I can't imagine why they would only allow use of photos only if they are altered; that explanation seemed not right to me. Makes more sense that they allow use of the photos in a bigger piece like an article in which it's not about the photo but the photo is used in some way to enhance the article. In the quote you use, it says, "You are allowed to copy, distribute, transmit  the work AND (my emphasis) to adapt the work." So, not just adapt it, but those others things too.

            1. Writer Fox profile image82
              Writer Foxposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I agree.  I use MorgueFile photos on some of my Hubs and I don't attribute them.

              1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                WF, if you look back in this thread, you'll find several of us who said the same thing, but we're now eating our words.

                Morguefile has changed its terms of service, some time this year.  The new terms are best explained by this quote from their FAQ:

                "What does it mean I have to alter the image?
                The morguefile license is specifically for designers and illustrators to use the images in a creative process creating work of their own. If you would like to use the image in a blog post, we recommend contacting the photographer and providing a by line under the photo with the photographer's name. "

                I've emailed them for clarification, and also to ask when the change was made.  I'm assuming any images I used prior to the change are fine, but I may need to go back and credit images used since then.

          2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Writer Fox:  You forgot the rest of the ruling.  Read my post below which comes directly from Morguefile.com.  To avoid attributes, you must change the photo so that it is not exactly like the one you are using.  I believe the reason for this is to remove any liability from the photographer.  Pixabay is somewhat similar.  You do not have to attribute anything with them no matter how the photo is done, but you DO have to be careful about personal rights issues.  I've posted a link from Pixabay which explains everything.

    4. psycheskinner profile image81
      psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago

      Just add a text box at the bottom to credit photographers by name.

      1. healthmunsta profile image96
        healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        This would ruin the flow of my hub, but I guess it is the best option...

        1. psycheskinner profile image81
          psycheskinnerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          If it is at the end and set off in a side box or in italics I think most people will barely notice it.  There is already a flurry of advertising in that position.  You could combine it with other acknowledgements, citations and references etc etc.

        2. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          How could it ruin the flow if it's right at the end?

          1. healthmunsta profile image96
            healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            The reason why I thought I had a problem was because I usually make collages, and I need to attribute each of the 2 - 8 pictures in the 2 - 4 collages in my hub.

            But from this thread, I've got a few ideas, one of which is to use a text box at the end and somehow attribute all the pictures, making it clear which picture belongs to whom. For a collage, this would not be very clear unless I did something like, "Collage 1: Picture of Olive Oil by (creator name) from (website name), Picture of Broccoli by (creator name) from (website name) etc..."

            I also realized I'm fretting over image attribution and getting it perfectly right, when most hubbers don't give much of a thought to it. I've seen so many hubbers (even those with over 100K views) using stock images, images from online magazines and not caring to attribute them at all.

            I should just do the necessary crediting in a text box or otherwise and stop being overly worried and paranoid about it.

            1. Marisa Wright profile image93
              Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

              I like that you take attribution seriously.   It really annoys me that some Hubbers get their panties in a bunch when someone steals their writing, but they think it's OK to steal a photographer's images! 

              You do need to attribute each individual photo if it's under a Creative Commons licence, but (as psycheskinner says) it doesn't have to be in the photo capsule.   Personally I'd put a Photo Credits text box somewhere and list the links in that.  At the very end of the Hub, possibly right-floated, isn't going to be too intrusive IMO.

              1. healthmunsta profile image96
                healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

                Thank you, Marisa.

    5. FlourishAnyway profile image94
      FlourishAnywayposted 3 years ago

      For collages, you might try to use your own images, use images from the same photographer and site (which would streamline multiple attributions), provide a credits capsule perhaps at the end, or use a photo sharing site with looser attribution parameters.  Hope this helps you.

      1. healthmunsta profile image96
        healthmunstaposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks for the tips!

      2. relache profile image87
        relacheposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        If the photographer has not given permission to make derivative works, you should not be using hem to create collages.

        1. healthmunsta profile image96
          healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Do derivative works infringe alterations?

          1. Marisa Wright profile image93
            Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            "derivative works" means altered images. You have to look at the licence for that particular photo, to know whether it's allowed.

            So on Morguefile, for instance, derivative works are the ONLY way you're allowed to use the images, unless you contact the photographer for permission - which is very unusual, possibly unique!

            1. healthmunsta profile image96
              healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks for clearing that, Marisa. From relache's previous post, I thought derivative works and alterations were 2 different things, with collages not being allowed if the photographer does not give rights to create derivative works in specific.

              Yes, indeed morguefile seems a bit weird for only allowing altered images. I wonder what the purpose of this is? Do altered images partly or fully disassociate the photographer from whatever material you write? There could be a good reason for morguefile's unique rules.

              1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Morguefile says it's intended for artists and multimedia professionals looking for base material.

              2. janshares profile image86
                jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                So maybe we need to crop as opposed to resize.

                1. healthmunsta profile image96
                  healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  That's true. You could crop certain angles of the photo, giving you some neat close-up shots.

                  1. janshares profile image86
                    jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Marisa replied above, NOT!

                    1. healthmunsta profile image96
                      healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                      I don't understand, janshares...You mean cropping is not allowed?

                  2. Marisa Wright profile image93
                    Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    I just took a look at your Hubs and I didn't understand what you meant by "collages".  What you seem to be doing is combining several images from different sources to make a single image, and adding text.

                    That would constitute a 'derivative work' and is exactly what Morguefile is intended for, so provided they have suitable photos, you may have your solution!   Just be careful you're using the free-to-use photos (they also have tabs for paid photos on Dreamstime etc), and that you are doing significant work on them - i.e. resizing, cropping, adding text, joining multiple images, etc.

                    1. janshares profile image86
                      jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                      I need to visit healthmunsta to see what constitutes a collage. Later!

                    2. healthmunsta profile image96
                      healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                      You are so helpful, Marisa! Thank you so much for your patient and polite explanations. This is what I've been doing recently. Morguefile is the way to go for me. I feel quite sorted out right now, this should save me from the endless worrying of whether I'm "stealing" photos or whether I'm attributing correctly.

    6. janshares profile image86
      jansharesposted 3 years ago

      Thanks for bringing this up, healthmunsta. I'm still confused about knowing if I'm doing it correctly in all hubs. Since Christy let us know that photo attribution is the biggest faux pas of most hubbers, I'm not sure mine are right even though I've read and thought I understood the directions.
      Marisa and Will, could you please take a random look at a couple of mine and give an example of one that is NOT correct? I don't always include the photographer's name in the top box. Thanks in advance, will check back later.

      1. The Examiner-1 profile image82
        The Examiner-1posted 3 years ago in reply to this

        janshares,
        Once I have loaded the photo I look for the other info. Since the Source and the Name are optional, if I cannot find the other info, I place the site which I took the photo from into the source box (such as 'morgue file' or 'Wikimedia Commons').

        1. janshares profile image86
          jansharesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          I try not to use photos that don't come with attribution, including a url with the creative commons and the photographer. Sites like photopin and pixabay  will tell you to copy the url underneath the image and paste it to your article. Morguefile doesn't always have a photographer. I thought that as long as you pasted and copied the url, and that the reader could click on "photopin" under source, that was good enough. I guess I misunderstood.

          1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            janshares:  I was led to believe that Pixabay says no attribution is required.  Now you're telling me they have changed also?  OMG!!

      2. Marisa Wright profile image93
        Marisa Wrightposted 3 years ago in reply to this

        I opened one Hub at random and saw a credit to Photopin.   Photopin is not the photographer, it's just an easy way to find Flickr photos - you need to find the original photographer on Flickr and credit him/her.

        That's a good rule to remember, actually - if you find yourself crediting a site rather than an individual photographer, double-check that you're doing it right - the whole point of attribution is to give the photographer due recognition.

        If all the photos on a Hub are your own, I don't recommend cluttering the photo with a Source credit at all.   Just put a credit at the bottom saying all photos are the author's own.

        1. The Examiner-1 profile image82
          The Examiner-1posted 3 years ago in reply to this

          How can you credit the photographer if you cannot find the info on him/her? Besides, it says above the box that it is optional to put it in.

          1. Matthew Meyer profile image79
            Matthew Meyerposted 3 years ago in reply to this

            If you cannot find the correct attribution for an image, then you should not use it in your Hub content.
            http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/legal-image-use

          2. Marisa Wright profile image93
            Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            If you're referring to Photopin, all the photos are Creative Commons photos from Flickr.  That means you MUST credit the photographer.    If you click on the photo on Photopin, you'll find yourself on Flickr where you can find the photographer.

            Freedigitalphotos.net also says it's mandatory to credit both the site AND the photographer. 

            Or are you referring to some other site?

            1. janshares profile image86
              jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Marisa, please explain the statement on Photopin that says something to the effect of, "You are free to use this image for . . . Attribution is not required."
              This is what confuses me. In addition, at the bottom right, it says, "This photo is safe." When you click on the photo, there is no CC license.
              I downloaded images for my next hub and made note of the photographers to place under source without a URL link. I hope this will be sufficient. Please clarify.

              1. Dale Hyde profile image86
                Dale Hydeposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I am not Marisa, but I do use this site for photos on other sites.  The link to display always shows up when via a pop up when you go to download the photo.  You will notice that in the URL itself, it says "creativecommons".

                I have not had any problems as long as I use the provided link specified for attribution.

                1. janshares profile image86
                  jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So I still need to use that url per HP standards, even though the site says otherwise. Thanks, Dale.

                  1. Dale Hyde profile image86
                    Dale Hydeposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    That is my understanding.  I can say I have not had any issues with ANY images from there and I have used them on various monitored sites.  I figure the URL attribution is also being fair to the one providing me the image to use.

                  2. The Examiner-1 profile image82
                    The Examiner-1posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    janshares,
                    I use Creative Commons too almost all of the time, it shows all three URL's which you need.
                    If I have to go somewhere else for a photo I hover over the photo and I 'right click' and then I 'left click' on 'Inspect Element'. I search through there for the other info, or as much as I can find.
                    Kevin

              2. Marisa Wright profile image93
                Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Where are you seeing that, Janshares?  I've just tried using Photopin and when I click on "get photo", I get a pop-up screen with a link to the original photo and some HTML code for users to paste into their blog (which includes all the necessary attributions).

                Of course you can't use the HTML code, but the instructions tell you to click on the photo to go to Flickr - so you can find the photographer link there (click on the "i" icon).

                I can't see anywhere where it says "attribution is not required".  Is there more than one site called Photopin?

                http://www.noupe.com/freebie/photo-pin- … 75002.html

                1. janshares profile image86
                  jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry for the confusion. It's morguefile. When you click on a photo, you'll see it.

            2. The Examiner-1 profile image82
              The Examiner-1posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Marisa,
              I do not use Flickr because they only seem to be 'links' - not actual photos.

              1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                No, they are photos.  You'll find a Hub about how to use Flickr photos on the slider on my profile, you might find it helpful.

                1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
                  TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Marisa:  Now I am really nervous.  I have been using Morguefile for ALL of my hubs and online writing for more than a year.  I "alter" them by resizing them and I also do some other editing on some of them, and I always accredit Morguefile.com even though I understood you do not have to do this.  I have no understanding as to how you would find the name of the photographer on that site, and am now wondering if ALL of my photos are illegally done.  If they are, I might just get a gun and shoot myself!  Please advise asap!

                  1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                    Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Resizing wouldn't count as alteration. 

                    I've been wondering the same thing, because I've used Morguefile for several years!  I don't think I've used any of their images in the last year or so.  I've emailed them to ask if and when the change occurred.   I'm assuming that any photos used before the rules changed would be OK, whereas photos used since the change wouldn't.

                    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
                      TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                      Please let me know what you find out.  I've used them a lot on all of my writing sites, which adds up to hundreds of problems for me.  Kind of unfair for them to change the rules in the middle of the game!  Now you know why I try to limit the number of hubs I write!  Will await your answer with bated breath!

                  2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
                    TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Marisa:  I just realized that the photographer's name appears on the left right below the photo.  I never noticed this before and am wondering now if that is an "add on" that happened with the change?

                2. The Examiner-1 profile image82
                  The Examiner-1posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Marisa,
                  I know that when you click on the link it shows the photo but all that appears in your Hub is a link. Whenever I tried to copy the URL all that I get is 'copying the link'.

                  1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                    Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    The problem is that you're using the wrong method. 

                    Personally, I find the easiest way is to download the appropriate size of the image to my PC, then upload it to HubPages.  That also avoids any risk of a broken link to the photo.

                    In the source, I always link to the photographer's photo stream, not to the individual photo - because it satisfies the intent of the licence, and avoids the risk of a broken link if the photographer removes that individual photo.

        2. janshares profile image86
          jansharesposted 3 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks Marisa. Most of mine are like that. However, the photographer's name is in the url. I see now that you're saying I actually have to put the photographer's name in the source. Some of mine do have the name along with "photopin" or "pixabay" but I will add the names to all now.

    7. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 2 years ago

      I thought you were dead, Paul! Hope you are still making money, by the way.

    8. healthmunsta profile image96
      healthmunstaposted 2 years ago

      Just a point of information - taking a picture of a picture (from a magazine, text book etc) constitutes to copyright infringement. So for those of us who are preparing to embark on the insipid journey of taking our own pictures, make sure it's not a picture of a picture! wink

      1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        This is the wordage directly from a current summary from Morguefile.com as to how photos are to be used. 

        Please note that it says you are free to use the photos for distribution (in hubs, etc) without attribution to the author IF you alter the photos to the point where they are NOT EXACTLY THE SAME as the original..

        To me this means resizing is not enough, but cropping and other alterations are.  I do not believe you have to have a MFP photo to meet these goals, although that is always a good idea.

        You are free:
        Remix - to adapt the work.
        Commercial - to use this work for commercial purposes.
        Without Attribution - to use without attributing the original author.

        Under the following conditions:
        Stand alone basis - You can not sell, license, sublicense, rent, transfer or distribute this image exactly as it is without alteration.

        Ownership - You may not claim ownership of this image in its original state.
        Any of the above conditions can be waived if you get permission from the contributor.
        Nothing in this license impairs or restricts the author's moral rights.

        1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          All of you who use Pixabay need to click on this link.
          Basically it states that all public domain photos from Pixabay can be used without any attritubution:  However,  photos of people, homes etc. may need a signed release IF that photo is used for commercial purposes.

          Commercial purposes are defined in the link and usually will not apply to blog articles, etc...but you have to be careful with them.  READ IT!



          http://pixabay.com/en/blog/posts/public … what-is-4/

    9. Tinsky profile image93
      Tinskyposted 2 years ago

      There is a very easy way around this.  Just make a text box entitled Image credits and include it at the bottom of your article or even to the side of an image or other text etc.  Make it a different color to the rest of your article etc.  The credit doesn't haven't to be directly under the pictures with the TOS for free digital photos, it just has to appear on the page where the images appear.  And with the alteration of images - you still have to provide credit for the original authorship - that's part of the TOS and copyright - I think it has to be something like 80% changed before you can leave off any reference to the original creator, it will depend the TOS for the use (some TOS say no change allowed depending on where you get the images). If you're not paying for the licence to use it, then ask yourself, if you were the original creator - what would you like? Be nice, play nice and respect the artist as you would expect them to respect your work as a writer.

      1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Where did you get this information?  80% changed?  Really?  And whose TOS... Hub Pages or Morguefile et al?  I'm beginning to think we should simply remove ALL photos to be safe, which is a totally ridiculous thought.  If the photo provider in its rules states what you are to do and you do it, then what is the problem?  Nowhere have I seen that you must alter the photo 80%.  I'd be interested to hear where you found this info so I can see it for myself.

        1. Tinsky profile image93
          Tinskyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          As I stated in my comment, I'm not sure of the exact percentage, but if you want to do some research on that you should.  I would though bring your attention to hubpages own article on "A Guide to Proper Image Use on Hubpages" under the subheading "One Final Note: Fair Use" where it states "Cases that are typically eligible for this exception: ......" and the third dot point "Use a very small amount of copyrighted work (in proportion to the entire work created)".  80% was probably being generous, its more like much higher than this.   As for me, I pay for licensed images, give credit or make my own from scratch.  Here is the link to the full article: http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/lega … d_21428213

          1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Tinsky:  This is a direct quote from HP that apparently you missed:

            Public Domain images, as well as those from many royalty free image sites, do not require attribution, so you are free to use them in your Hubs without citing or linking back to your sources. Note: Some royalty-free image sites do have special stipulations, so be sure to follow the requirements of any licenses they apply to their content.

            They specifically mention Pixabay and Morguefile along with other sources of free public domain photos as being OK to use AS PER THE RULES OF THOSE SITES.

            1. Tinsky profile image93
              Tinskyposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              I didn't miss it thanks, there always exceptions which is why I stated it will depend on the TOS in my first comment.   - Cheers.

        2. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          I think Tinsky was answering the original post, and she's quite right - it's not necessary to put ANY credits in the photo capsule.   In the old days, HubPages didn't even have that facility!   On my older Hubs, all my photo credits are together at the end of my Hubs.

          If you read HubPages' recommended way of attribution, I think they've gone way overboard - they recommend putting everything but the kitchen sink in the capsule!  It wasn't possible to put ANY of it in the capsule for several years, and the law hasn't changed - so I'm not sure why they've done that.  Maybe it's just to force Hubbers to do the checks they should be doing? 

          I think it's a good idea to credit the photographer in the capsule - it highlights the fact that the photo isn't fair game - however I don't like clutter, so I always put any other necessary info somewhere else.

          As for the 80% rule - if a photographer doesn't allow derivative works, he doesn't allow derivative works.  It doesn't matter how much you change it, you're still doing the wrong thing.

          1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Which is exactly why I like using Pixabay and Morguefile!  I think you could drive yourself crazy trying to meet everybody's requirements and for the small amount of money one makes here, it really is not worth all of that trouble.  I am now checking and reworking Morguefile photos that I have not altered and either dumping them or fixing them.  Lots of work...but there does not seem to be much choice.  I would like to know when Morguefile changed their rules, though as that could cut my work in half!

          2. The Examiner-1 profile image82
            The Examiner-1posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Marisa,
            That is basically what I said a little ways back. HP says in, or above, each URL box that it is optional. I look for the info if possible.

            1. Marisa Wright profile image93
              Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You're misunderstanding me.  I'm not saying, include the information "if possible".  I'm saying, if the credit is legally required, then it must be on your Hub somewhere.  It doesn't have to be within the capsule itself.

              That's why HP says it's optional to put it in the capsule.   It's not saying anything about what's required legally. 

              They can't make the URL mandatory because the photo may not have a URL - you may have uploaded it from your own PC.  Or it may be a public domain photo that doesn't require attribution.

              If you can't find the photographer's name, go and read the site's terms of service first, to make sure you're allowed to use the photo.  On every photography site I can think of, you have to credit either the site or the photographer.  The only exception (other than public domain photo sites like Pixabay) is Morguefile, where you can use the images without credit IF you change them substantially.

              I assume you're aware that every photo on the internet is copyright unless there's a statement or licence somewhere near it, stating it's free to use.

              1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
                TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Marisa:  You can also use Pixabay without accrediting either the site or the photographer.  HP lists both Pixabay and Morguefile as being sites that are OK to use as long as you use their guidelines.

                1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                  Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Thanks for that info.  I've never used Pixabay, it looks worthwhile.

    10. janshares profile image86
      jansharesposted 2 years ago

      Well, this was quite a learning experience thread. I did email all of the photographers of the images for my latest hub (all morgueFile).  I haven't heard back yet but went ahead and published it. If there's a problem, I will just delete them or crop them if I can't find other suitable images. I have a feeling they won't even answer but at least it's done. This hubbing is not getting any easier but I shall carry on. hmm

      1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        janshares:  If you read my post you will see that as long as you alter the photos you do not have to attribute the photographer or even the site.  I use Picmonkey to do this and it's pretty easy.  Give it a try and save yourself some headaches.

        1. janshares profile image86
          jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks, TIMETRAVELER2. I've been following this entire thread. Your info has been helpful as well. I've used picmonkey and like it a lot. I promise you I will have less headaches from now on. smile

        2. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          We have been discussing other sites besides Morguefile, so just to be clear - this comment refers to Morguefile photos ONLY!

          1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Marisa:  Thanks for clarifying.  I tend to speak to Morguefile and Pixabay because those are the sites I use the most simply because it saves time and effort to do so.

    11. Shyron E Shenko profile image85
      Shyron E Shenkoposted 2 years ago

      Why can't you use a Text capsule under the picture where you can credit all the contributors for the above picture?

    12. Shyron E Shenko profile image85
      Shyron E Shenkoposted 2 years ago

      Why can't you use a Text capsule under the picture where you can credit all the contributors for the above picture?

      1. janshares profile image86
        jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks, Shyron, I could have as it was suggested twice but I chose to do it the way HP suggests. I will try the text capsule in another hub.

    13. janshares profile image86
      jansharesposted 2 years ago

      Good News Update: I received a very nice reply to my request from one of the photographers who authored several images I used. He was so generous and said I can use any of his images and don't have to ask permission for any others in the future. He only asked for the credit. God is good.

      1. Marisa Wright profile image93
        Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Great news!  I've had the same experience a couple of times - one dance photographer even sent me some shots that suited the post even better, and we've gone on to collaborate on other things. He's happy for the exposure and I love his photography!

        In some ways, it makes me think it's a good thing we have to ask permission sometimes - it's surprising the connections you can make.

        1. janshares profile image86
          jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          smile

        2. healthmunsta profile image96
          healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Awww, that's so nice!!!

      2. NateB11 profile image91
        NateB11posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Very cool.

    14. Marisa Wright profile image93
      Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago

      Reply from Morguefile:

      The rules have not changed!   The rule has always been that the photos are free to use without attribution as the basis for creative works.  They are also free for private use.

      If you want to use them in their original form in any money-making endeavour, you must contact the photographer for permission (which is likely to be given) and follow his/her requirements.

      They do admit the wording "confuses some people".  I've replied to say that in my experience, the wording is widely misunderstood and perhaps they should consider amending it!

      1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        So, what we are doing is a money making endeavor?  Or is it creative work?  It's still a bit confusing, but I suspect online writing, poorly as it pays, is considered a money making endeavor.  Also, did they clarify the business of using the photo in a changed form?  What types of changes are acceptable..anything other than resizing?

        1. psycheskinner profile image81
          psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          "the basis of creative works" means using it to make a derivative work, e.g a painting.

          So if you use it in basically the same form, and you make money, you need permission.

          Seems clear to me.

        2. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          If you're using it to make money, you're using it to make money. 

          If you had a blog with no advertising on it, and you weren't selling anything, that would be personal/private use. As soon as you put ads on the blog, or offer an ebook, you're using the image in a money-making endeavour - that's pretty clear to me.   We're trying to make money on HP so that would count, too.

          As for "creative works" - they're referring to what you do to the picture itself, not the site you post it on.  They didn't define it, but clearly, something like resizing isn't creative, nor is simple cropping.  Putting several images together in a collage, or adding borders, text, decoration etc would be creative.

          1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            OK...I just wanted to make sure before I continued to make my corrections.  As I see it, my choice here is to correct photos on most of my 600 or so posts on various sites, or eliminate them completely.  This is the first time I was ever aware of this rule for Morguefile, unfortunately, because I stupidly took the advice of another author say you can use Morguefile pix without attribution and basically when I looked, I did not look close enough at what they said.  This is going to be a massive amount of work for me and many others who do no want to put themselves in the position of getting sued.  On the other hand, it's been that way on many of my posts for more than two years without problems.  Doesn't matter.  I'm fixing and dumping.  Thanks for making this crystal clear for me.

            1. Marisa Wright profile image93
              Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              You're far from the only one who misunderstood.  When Dale said Morguefile photos had to be altered, I went to check Morguefile, convinced I would prove him wrong - then discovered he was right!!  Luckily, I use Flickr for almost everything.  I have used Morguefile photos but often, it was because I needed an image I could modify, so I've probably met the conditions.  I can't even remember where I used them.

              As Janshares says, I doubt you'll get sued.  At worst, if a photographer spots one of his photos, he'll contact you or HubPages and complain, and you'll have a chance to fix it.  Like you, for me it's about doing the right thing, though.

              There have been cases of people getting emails from photographers demanding high compensation payments, but they're scams.

          2. janshares profile image86
            jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks, Marisa. I got another positive reply from a photographer. All she wanted was the link to the article for reference.

            TIMETRAVELER2, I have a lot of work to do, too. But I do think it's unlikely we'll get sued. It really is about doing the right thing and crediting someone's work. I'm not going to sweat it though. Will make changes one image at a time on old hubs and be more conscientious on hubs hereafter.
            I do think it may be easier in some cases to just email the photographer before taking the image down. That seems to be working out for me so far.

            1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Janshares: Of course it's about doing the right thing, but we are talking here about copyright infringement, which is a very serious thing, so it must be taken into consideration.  I just finished revamping all 110 of my HP articles, and am now working on my blog.  Next will be Bubblews.  I want to get this stuff done so I can eliminate worry and move on.  Very tiresome.  The only good thing is that I am finding other things on my articles to upgrade that will improve them, and all of these edits will temporarily raise Google's view of my work.  Good luck to you and all of the others who "want to do the right thing".  It's a massive job!

              1. janshares profile image86
                jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                Well said, TIME. You're a hard worker. 110 revamped already? WOW. Remember to take breaks and take good care of yourself.

                1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
                  TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  No janshares, those are just the HP ones...I've also revamped 69 on my blog and 40 on Bubblews!  I'm old and retired so I have the time to do this...although I'd rather be writing.  The one thing I will say is that my articles look better lol!

                  1. healthmunsta profile image96
                    healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Whatever your situation, it's still inspiring that you work so fast, yet still retain quality!

                    I'm still slowly working through mine. *sigh*

                    1. janshares profile image86
                      jansharesposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                      +1

    15. psycheskinner profile image81
      psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago

      Thanks for clearing that up!

    16. wrenchBiscuit profile image87
      wrenchBiscuitposted 2 years ago

      NOAA is a great place to get high quality public domain photos with few restrictions: check it out here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/noaaphotolib

      There are a plethora of free images available online.A little surfing will reap great rewards!

      1. healthmunsta profile image96
        healthmunstaposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Wow, this is a great resource. Thanks for posting the link! They have over 6000 photos! Mainly historical images, landscapes, biological etc...Great for hubbers writing on those topics.

        1. wrenchBiscuit profile image87
          wrenchBiscuitposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Glad you like.I just found it last night.As a matter of fact I'm going there right now.

      2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Not all Flicker photos are public domain so always check prior to using them.  Those that appear on Wikimedia Commons, however, are definitely usable.

        1. The Examiner-1 profile image82
          The Examiner-1posted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Not all on Wikimedia Commons either. You have to read below the photo , some do not say that they are for public, or free, use.

        2. Marisa Wright profile image93
          Marisa Wrightposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Many of the photos on Wikimedia Commons require attribution, too.

          1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            When I us Wikimedia Commons I always do a full attribute and try to make it a point to read the licensing agreement.  I've found that the great majority are free to use.

    17. snakeslane profile image81
      snakeslaneposted 2 years ago

      The National Gallery of Art has a massive collection of images free to use here:
      https://images.nga.gov/en/page/show_home_page.html
      Quoting from its Open Access Policy here:
      With the launch of NGA Images, the National Gallery of Art implements an open access policy for digital images of works of art that the Gallery believes to be in the public domain. Images of these works are now available free of charge for any use, commercial or non-commercial. Users do not need to contact the Gallery for authorization to use these images. They are available for download at the NGA Images website (images.nga.gov).

      1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

        NGA also posts that they cannot guarantee that all photos are legal to use, so tread carefully.

        1. snakeslane profile image81
          snakeslaneposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          The National Gallery of Art Home Page is pretty clear about directing users to the Public Access page for downloads, it is an amazing and valuable resource for images. I would agree treading carefully is what this whole thread is about when it comes to selecting images.

          1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Well, my friends...I just competed a total overhaul of 400 article photos.  I hope I NEVER have to do this again, but I feel secure knowing that things have now been done the right way.  I do think it is very easy to make a mistake with photos, but I intend to make them no more!

            1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Just after I posted this I received an email from the Morguefile.com team.  It seems there's another caveat to using that site...SOME photos of people and buildings require permission!  You must check the box beside the download photo where it says yes or no.  If it's "yes"...you need to contact the photographer.  Nice of them to let us know, huh?

     
    working