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My 2 day experiment with 8 hubs and hub scores. Method and results.

  1. cam8510 profile image93
    cam8510posted 20 months ago

    On Friday, April 3rd, I chose two of my hubs with the highest hub scores and made one, distinct change.  On Saturday, after seeing the results, I did the same thing to six more.  First I will give my results, then I will explain what I did. 

    Two hubs changed on Friday with results as of today, Sunday, April 5th.
    One hub rose two points since Friday
    One hub rose three points since Friday.

    Six hubs changed on Saturday with results as of today, Sunday, April 5th.
    Two hubs each rose by 7 points since Saturday.
    One hub rose by 6 points since Saturday.
    One hub rose by 5 points since Saturday.
    One hub rose by 4 points since Saturday.
    One hub rose by 3 points since Saturday. 

    For the total time since Friday, I have seen an increase of a total of 33 hub points.  Highest being 7 and lowest being 2.  The average is an increase of 4 hub points. 

    My overall hub score has not changed.

    I don't believe this is an accident since I don't see these kinds of variations often in such short amounts of time without making changes.

    I really only did two things.  First, I moved my full sized photo at the top, down. Second, I put a small descriptive paragraph immediately above that photo.  Now these hubs begin with the short paragraph which is full of important information about my hub.

    I just wanted to share this to see if you might have other ideas to improve our hubs.  I am very aware that hub scores are not the most important thing about what we do.  The most important thing we do is to write from our hearts about things others are interested in.  But if a simple adjustment will get us more page views, then it is worth trying.  I would also be interested in knowing if others have done the same things I described and if they have experienced similar results.

    1. Paul Maplesden profile image89
      Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I love this sort of thing - Data, experimentation and results. I was thinking of adopting a similar approach for my hubs (short para, photo and then details) and your results seem to bear this out, at least regarding hubscore.

      Are you also tracking performance in search via Webmaster tools or anything like that? I'd be curious to know how it changes things for Google. Thanks for doing this.

      1. cam8510 profile image93
        cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        I hadn't even thought about checking Webmaster tools.  I'll head over and see what I find out.  I'll get back to you later on that.

        1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          You guys are going to love this!

          I just finished going through every single article and switching the intro paragraph with the photo below it and widening that and all other photos and ads!  I also accredited photos and improved captions.

          Hubber score has varied up or down by 2 points, but always has remained between 92 and 94.  overall Hub score average went from 79 to 81 and right now is at 80.  However, I removed 4 articles and just now added a new one, which has not gone through QAP yet.

          I also revamped many of my titles.

          So far, I have not seen any major improvements in scoring, but views are up a bit as are CPMs and income...however, I'm coming into my season now, so that is probably the real reason for this.

          I will say, though, that I really prefer the way my articles look now, for what that's worth.  Only time will tell if all of this helped or not.

          My overall hubber score was at 97 before the system changed, but it didn't drop as much as many did.

          1. Paul Maplesden profile image89
            Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            TT2, this is excellent and really valuable to know. Can you let us know if you see many upticks on WMT over the medium to long term?

            1. cam8510 profile image93
              cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Would somebody give me an idea about what to look for on WMT?   I use it sometimes for certain things, but for the most part, it just baffles me.

              1. rebekahELLE profile image91
                rebekahELLEposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                I'm sure we all look at different things when we check WMT.  The best way to figure it out is by spending time with it and using the help section to learn what each section covers.
                I don't check it as much as I used to, but when I do, the first think I check is search queries.  It tells you how many and lists the queries.  I look at the number of impressions (number of times pages from our subdomain show up in search results) and clicks (click throughs to one of our pages).
                I check the tables/lists and click on 'with change'.  It will show the increase/decrease compared to previous period.  You can click on any of the headings and it shows more details.  I like to click on the impressions headings with change.  One query showed a 91% increase in impressions. Knowing that, I can work with promoting that particular hub because I know why there's such an increase right now. 
                I also check the other sections,  but for me, most of what I want to know is in the search traffic section.

            2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

              Exactly where on WMT should I be looking?  I have never thought about this site as a place to measure progress.  Please let me know.  Thanks.

              1. Paul Maplesden profile image89
                Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                The best place is 'Search Queries' - Go to: Search Queries > Top Pages and click 'With Change' - It will tell you how much the positions of each of your hubs is changing in search results.

                1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                  TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                  Thanks.  I found a good tutorial about using Webmaster but have not had time to read all of it.  I think info like this is very important.  Will follow up as time permits.

            3. Austinstar profile image75
              Austinstarposted 20 months ago in reply to this

              What is "WMT"?

              1. Paul Maplesden profile image89
                Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

                'Webmaster Tools' - It's a service from Google that lets you track how your hubs perform on Google - You can find out more here: http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/How- … ster-Tools

              2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
                TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

                Google Web Master Tools

      2. colorfulone profile image89
        colorfuloneposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Glad you shared your findings. It was about 12 days ago that I decided to go through all of my hubs using Grammerly. I didn't keep track of stats, but my hubscores did go up, some considerably. The interesting thing was when the Hubber Score Update can out (10 days ago). My HubberScore had been stuck at 83 for a couple of weeks, but it went up again.

    2. Kylyssa profile image94
      Kylyssaposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I'm giving this a try on some of my hubs. I'll try to remember to check back and let you know what happens with them.

      Thank you for sharing your idea. I think that helping each other out is much more productive than trying to have "trade secrets" here. Our views come from the greater world outside and it helps the whole community when we can pull more of them in.

      1. cam8510 profile image93
        cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Kylyssa, I agree totally.  Good luck with your hubs.

    3. Marisa Wright profile image92
      Marisa Wrightposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Increasing your HubScore will NOT get you more page views.  HubScore is an internal measure that counts only within HubPages.  If you want more page views, you need to learn what will make your Hub more popular with the search engines, and that is not the same thing at all.

      1. brakel2 profile image85
        brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        It is getting more difficult by the day to get on the first page of Google. You need to be a wizard at SEO and long tail keywords, it seems, or have 1000 hubs. I know one wizard at SEO with only 50 some hubs.

      2. brakel2 profile image85
        brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Having a good layout and putting titles in photos with a photo editor should help the hub attract traffic and also might raise score within the site. I guess when we try to raise our score, it is really with the hope it correlates with more traffic. Marisa, does that make sense?

    4. brakel2 profile image85
      brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      The new layout may improve your views, as it is very picturesque. Nice going.

    5. CatherineGiordano profile image92
      CatherineGiordanoposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I almost always begin my hubs with a few sentences of text followed by a full size picture that tells what the hub is about. I more or less repeat the "tease" from the summary that goes alongside the picture on the profile page. I make sure the picture is simple to understand (not busy), bold and/or colorful.  I don't know if this affects hub scores or not, but I feel it draws the reader in. and makes him want to stay on my page. I often put the title as an overlay in the picture.

    6. Becky Katz profile image85
      Becky Katzposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I did some changes similar to this last week, and my score jumped several points. A few days later they dropped back down to the previous score. Check them in a few days and see what happens.

      1. cam8510 profile image93
        cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Mine have begun to drop again, so this is not a long term help for hub scores.  On the up side, I have seen significant improvement in page views, at least since I made the changes. 

        As has been mentioned before, page views, not a high hub score is what the goal should be.  I have a hub that has a relatively low score, but has been my number one viewed hub for a couple of years.  It is not a pretty hub to look at, mostly because of the nature of the article, but it is information people want.

    7. peachpurple profile image78
      peachpurpleposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      gee, thanks for your tips. I always put my full size picture at the top, follow by a rating or poll and then a short text. Maybe I should try yours.

      1. cam8510 profile image93
        cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        My scores are still changing.  Up, down slightly, and some back up.  I'll post new results in a few days.   Good luck.

    8. brakel2 profile image85
      brakel2posted 19 months ago in reply to this

      I don't understand that the total hub score does not change, as the same thing happened to me. I need to figure out what is happening. Do other hubs go down. I wonder and wish I had checked out the total picture. Some other algo? Interesting.

  2. Dressage Husband profile image78
    Dressage Husbandposted 20 months ago

    I find this interesting and will be trying these tips on my Hubs to see what happens. My Hubber score has dropped from over 90 to 87 recently so we will see!

  3. Lady Lorelei profile image77
    Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago

    I have been updating hubs too and despite the hub scores rising on the ones I have updated my total score stubbornly remains at 79. I think this must be a bug or otherwise some weird algorithm has dictated the ranking score remain unchanged. Not too impressed to put it mildly.

    1. Elsie Hagley profile image80
      Elsie Hagleyposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Yes I totally agree with you too Lady Lorelei.
      I updated a hub, its score when down, also my overall hubscore.
      My profile score also dropped.
      I view others hubs, write good comments, add other hubbers hubs to my feed, visit the forum everyday.
      As a result I can't see the point in trying to improve my hub scores, I might as well let them sit and do nothing.
      Very distress I like my writing to be good, I feel very bad about it all.
      Everything is continuing like it was at Squidoo before it closed down, I don't know what to do.

      1. Lady Lorelei profile image77
        Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        It seems to make no sense. My account with the most traffic is sitting under the 85 ranking yet my two other accounts that I virtually ignore sit higher. Silliness and a game definitely not worth playing. I am just doing my thing and to h--l with the score. The hubscore seems very much like the game squidoo played. Play the game and you get to rank - Yippee!

    2. Barbara Kay profile image85
      Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Lorelei, This is the same experience I am having.

      1. Barbara Kay profile image85
        Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Whoops! It went up 1 point.

      2. cam8510 profile image93
        cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        After all the changes I described, my overall hub score rose by one point this afternoon. I agree, that particular score is very stubborn.

        1. Lady Lorelei profile image77
          Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          Lol...mine went from 84 to 85 yesterday and today dropped from 85 to 84. Bet Google loves seeing the links flicker on and off.

    3. brakel2 profile image85
      brakel2posted 19 months ago in reply to this

      My scores go up on the ones I update, but my total score remains the same or similar also. I have done what Cam did with the layout. However, two went to the first page of Google, so I am hoping for something good to happen.

  4. LuisEGonzalez profile image81
    LuisEGonzalezposted 20 months ago

    Generally once you make a change to a hub; title, captions, moving or changing photos etc., the views will temporarily go up since it gets crawled again. However within a very short time the views go to normal levels (pre-edits). At least this has been my experience.

    1. cam8510 profile image93
      cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Luis, That's exactly what I'm watching for.  I'm still a little suspicious, although I haven't seen hubs rise quite this much.  I should know something in a few days.

    2. brakel2 profile image85
      brakel2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I looked at one of his hubs, and it really impressed me. He has a brief description of his hub and then the photo, as he says and then supporting information. Maybe it will go up and stay up, as it is an excellent layout. I sure wish him luck for the long term for this idea.

      1. Millionaire Tips profile image90
        Millionaire Tipsposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        This is a really good strategy.  Having a short introduction will help the readers know that they have come to the right place without having to scroll. Then they can get to the pretty picture that sets the tone of the hub, and then the main part of the hub.  Having a full image right up front always bothered me, and that is because people need to know what the hub is about first.

        1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I was doing that before, but then realized that photos are considered to be content and if you put title related wordage directly on the photo and similar wording in the caption what you wind up with is the title, a Pinterest ready photo with good wordage, and a caption that repeats the same thoughts.  If you then follow this  with an introductory paragraph that repeats everything again and supports it I think it would be difficult for your reader to not get what you are writing about.  The capsule of your first text box should also support the topic as well.

          The important point, though, is to be sure to use as many synonyms as possible, and sometimes that can be tough and make the beginning of the article looked keyword stuffed.

          If you do it right, I don't think it matters which way you do it because you would have pretty much the same problem.

          What really works great is if you can use a vibrant, eye catching and interesting first photo.  This also can be tough to do.

          I just reworked every article and set it up this way and am hoping I won't have problems as a result.  No matter which article you check, you will see all of them done the same way.

          Happy to hear your thoughts on this as I have wrestled with this method for quite some time.

  5. Barbara Kay profile image85
    Barbara Kayposted 20 months ago

    I updated several of my hubs from one photo to three photos and added content. These were low scoring hubs. The score went up on these and then they lowered a couple of other hubs that were in the 90's. My hubscore has stayed the same.

    1. Lady Lorelei profile image77
      Lady Loreleiposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Yes that is what I must be seeing too because the overall Hubscore does not change.

  6. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image94
    Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago

    Thanks for posting these ideas and results - I hadn't thought of putting a brief piece of text above my photos (I did change many of them to full width, though, after reading the advice to do that).  I will play with that idea, too.

    I'm beginning to view the numbers and the icons about featured or unfeatured like the dashboard information and "check engine" lights in our cars - it's useful and can help us. We don't get mad at our cars if the oil light comes on, we just add oil.

    HubPages isn't attacking us personally by showing these scores, it's letting us know what their analysis shows of whether something will be seen by Google, or how well it's doing in terms of traffic. We can use this information (or not), but either way, it's objective information based on the current climate of the Internet.

    1. Paul Maplesden profile image89
      Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      That's a refreshing way of thinking about it - I like that.

      1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image94
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Paul - we should start a thread of positive ways to view and use the stats & other clues HP provides to help us know how Google is responding to our work.  This thread has great tips, and maybe thinking of the stats as our dashboards will help illustrate how HP works with us on that - when a score goes down, it's not a personal attack.

        1. Paul Maplesden profile image89
          Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I'm happy to kick something off!

        2. Paul Maplesden profile image89
          Paul Maplesdenposted 20 months ago in reply to this

          I've kicked it all off here: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/129830 If you're interested in doing some experiments to improve the quality of your hubs, please do check out this thread and post your results.

          1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image94
            Marcy Goodfleischposted 20 months ago in reply to this

            Thanks for launching that thread - I love the tips in it!

  7. Peggy W profile image92
    Peggy Wposted 20 months ago

    Thanks for sharing your ideas with us regarding photo placement.  It truly makes sense!  Undoubtedly I have some in the top position and as I discover them, I will make the changes.

  8. Kylyssa profile image94
    Kylyssaposted 20 months ago

    I did this to five hubs. Four increased in score by two to five points but one jumped up by about twenty points. I already had introductions on them, I just swapped the first photo with the introduction in all cases.

    Why don't they just say this is something they want us to do?

  9. Venkatachari M profile image85
    Venkatachari Mposted 20 months ago

    I changed 5 of my hubs by adding a video in one hub, call out capsule in 2 hubs, text and image addition in 2 other hubs. The result was, hub scores increased by 2 to 3 points. But, the hubber score is same. It went up by 2 points and again came down by 2 points in last 5 days.

  10. cam8510 profile image93
    cam8510posted 20 months ago

    Here is where my 8 experimental hubs stand on Monday, April 6th. 

    1-began at 89, rose to 91, now at 90
    2-88/91/87
    3-90/97/93
    4-91/96/93
    5-91/94/90
    6-89/93/91
    7-88/95/93
    8-87/93/89

    Six are still above where I began, and two have fallen below where I began by one point.

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image94
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      What's interesting about this is that the pattern is quite consistent.  Immediately following the upgrade your score rises, then it quickly drops, but not always below where it was.  So, to me this means that for the most part, the upgrades bring improvement...but you have to remember that upgrades are not the only things that determine readership.  They may bring in more initial attention, but people have to want to read what you are writing about, too.  As seasons change, holidays occur, etc. readership ebbs and flows.  Don't forget, yesterday was Easter!!

      I would wait another week to see how the scores wash out because they may be a bit skewed yet.

      1. cam8510 profile image93
        cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

        I totally agree.  I'll keep monitoring and will post another report in about a week.  Thanks.

  11. Cardisa profile image91
    Cardisaposted 20 months ago

    What I did was remove all my ebay and Amazon capsules. Immediately I saw changes in hubscores. My hubberscore has moved up one point.

    1. cam8510 profile image93
      cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      I've gotten rid of eBay  adds, but I am still hoping to figure out how to sell more than one dollars worth of merchandise every three months on Amazon.  Thanks for the tip.

  12. Faith Reaper profile image86
    Faith Reaperposted 20 months ago

    Cool experiment, Chris.  I do this same thing sort of periodically, and find that the individual hub scores do rise.  The main thing I find that just takes a moment or two, is to change the title to a more friendly Google title, and that works instantly, especially on older hubs where you have lack of engagement in a bit. Then I share on social media everywhere, and it goes up or is back featured just like that.  Once I realized the summary does not show up on our actually hub as an introduction, I try to be mindful to add an introduction somewhat like the summary we are required to have on the profile page.  Just the other day, I moved around some photos and changed some out and made the hub's overall appearance flow better, and the points went up.  Now, I just need to have time to get back to publishing more, being I have dropped from the 90s to this!  Wow, what a drop! 

    I think we should all spend a little time doing this periodically, as it does seems to help the individual hub scores at least.

    1. cam8510 profile image93
      cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      The hubber score does suffer quickly when we are inactive on the site.  I do a lot of the things you've mentioned, although I haven't gotten to all of my hubs by any means.  The stories just don't do well on Google from here, so I eventually move them to my blog.  The normal articles are where I focus my attention when it comes to making improvements. It seems to pay off.  Thanks for your input.

  13. Faith Reaper profile image86
    Faith Reaperposted 20 months ago

    Hi Cam,

    I decided to do your experiment and yesterday I went to my highest viewed hubs and deleted some links, external and internal, plus the Ebay ads, which I had forgotten about.  I am astounded!  Here are my results from 12 hubs:

    Up 8 points: 1 Hub, just by removing internal links and an Ebay ad!
    Up 6 points : 1 Hub
    Up 5 points:  4 Hubs
    Up 4 points:  3 Hubs
    Up 3 points:  2 Hubs
    Up 2 points:  1 Hub

    I am going to continue on updating the rest of my hubs being I had such great results, at least for me!

    Thanks Chris

    1. cam8510 profile image93
      cam8510posted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Earlier today I posted an update.   Check it out.  Ver few of my increases lasted.

      1. Faith Reaper profile image86
        Faith Reaperposted 20 months ago in reply to this

        Hi Cam,

        Yes, I see that and I too experienced the same, for some that went way up dropped a bit.

        However, Thursday night, I edited 14 more hubs, with the following results:

        One hub went up 8 points!
        One hub went up 7 points.
        Two hubs went up 6 points.
        Four hubs went up 5 points.
        One hub went up 4 points.
        Three hubs went up 3 points.
        One hubs went up 2 points.
        One hub went up 1 point.

  14. cam8510 profile image93
    cam8510posted 20 months ago

    One week ago today, I began this little experiment.  I'll give my status for the eight hub scores as points up or down since the beginning.

    2 hubs-down 1
    1 hub down 4
    1 hub down 6
    2 hubs up 2
    2 hubs even

    Folks, don't try this experiment at home........

    But I will follow that up with this.  My scores have been changing very fast, both up and down.  It's hard to say if it's the new hub score calculation method or if my "fix" was actually counter productive.  I'll leave things as they are for a while.

    1. profamy profile image84
      profamyposted 20 months ago in reply to this

      Thanks for the update... and keep us updated. I love reading about all these experiments.

  15. cam8510 profile image93
    cam8510posted 19 months ago

    There is definitely more to the algorithm than an average of the hub scores.  Page views are also involved according to the hp blog.

    1. brakel2 profile image85
      brakel2posted 19 months ago in reply to this

      Thanks. I did not remember that. It is so involved, I just thought the total hub score would rise no matter what else was involved.

      1. cam8510 profile image93
        cam8510posted 19 months ago in reply to this

        overall hub score is the most stubborn of all the scores.  I believe interaction on the site is also involved.  Possibly Number of featured hubs and EC hubs.

 
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