I have over a thousand hubs , mostly poetry , around six years on Hub pages , over five hundred more as yet unfinished and unpublished hubs , a score in the mid forties , Not now or never signed up for adsense or whatever the money thing is . I am presently deleting unfinished writings , and pulling down all my hubs from publication in disgust with hub Page's disconnection with its artistic community ! Not out of anger or contempt but simply out of this disconnect by Hubs .
I am considering out of concern for other writers to not leave the personal value of my writing open to Hub use . And will leave the empty hub and profile box for someone to write about cup-cakes or home- made candy bars or some other such important instructional mindless drivel . But I will always wonder what happened to the smaller more valuable community that Hub Pages once was .
Have you considered self publishing a book of poetry? That seems to be a reasonable alternative to HubPages.
Self publishing is quite like paying someone to give me some advice on life and the proper and religious way to live life etc. People are more than glad to do it for free.
I would never advise anyone to self publish. Better burn your poetry and make a cup of tea with that energy!
Can't agree with you on that one, Rodeon
I have just pulled all of my prose poetry, flash, and nano fiction Hubs to include in an eBook
Sadly HP realized that 'art' doesn't make them much money and therefore they made a business decision to move on - it's sadly what they had to do.
Have you tried tsu? They actively want content creators - artists, photographers, writers etc. You can earn a few pennies there, but more importantly there are many people who will interact and engage with you.
Send me a message if you want to know more...
According to Tsu's Wikipedia page, "Tsu's approach is to instead embrace the user as a product, and to sell data to advertisers and share the profits with the users as compensation. This approach appears to give the service some of the characteristics of a Multi Level Marketing strategy."
Why would anyone want to join an MLM (considered spam/fraud in many places) where they are treated as the product?
Well as you know, wikipedia is not always accurate. tsu has been accused of being a scam, MLM scheme etc.
It's essentially another Facebook with more of a focus on letting users monetize their content - whether or not it is an MLM scheme doesn't really matter - it doesn't cost anything to join and even if you don't make much, you gain value. People are already vested in FB - where all the money goes to FB or others.
I have had amazing feedback on my photographs, poetry and other fiction - the value I earn from that is far more than a sheckle I an earn on tsu - I have tried joining groups on Facebook and mostly it ends up people trying to push their work at me, or trying to get me to buy something.
Tsu is no better or worse than Facebook.
I would also point out that HP has been called a scam many times.
I contacted the head of tsu - they are going to change the wikipedia entry as in his words "We have no products to sell...therefore how can we be an MLM" - they did not setup the wikipedia entry but as the owners of the site can edit it I guess! Be interesting to see what they do!
Anyone can edit the Wikipedia entry, including you. All you have to do is become an editor. You don't need to pass any tests, just register.
It's why the accuracy of Wikipedia is so debatable - I'm an editor there, and that means I can change any entry I like, any time I like, to say anything I like. If I do something outrageous, eventually another editor will notice and change it back - but it could be months before they do.
Tsu is clearly in the spirit of a MLM scheme, because its selling point is that users get paid to recruit other users who recruit other users who recruit other users.
As you say, that doesn't matter if the site works for you - the only worry is that Tsu is paying for an activity that doesn't earn money directly. If they are judging the size of those payouts correctly, they'll be fine - but there have been other sites which have paid for non-income-generating activities (e.g. Bubblews paying for likes and comments), and got the sums wrong, leading them to run out of money. Just sayin'.
tsu is paying the way Bubblews should have from the start - they are only paying from revenue they have earned.
There's no doubt that those who bring thousands of people into tsu will earn more - but the majority will earn the same - and at the end of the day that is not a lot. There are some users who are not bringing in thousands of users that still are earning well because they constantly produce great content and have tens of thousands of followers.
Is it an MLM scheme? I don't know - I can see why people say it is - but if you treat it like Facebook which also encourages you to invite all your friends, then I don't see why people feel it is a scam - at least we all get a little money out of it.
What I find different is that people are not there for the money - and many (myself included) donate all our earnings to charity - I distinctly felt that Bubblews users (myself included) didn't truly care about the interaction and despite saying that they were not there for the money (myself included) a lot were (myself included).
It's funny - I didn't come here to discuss the merits of tsu - it really doesn't matter to me if people go there or not - I just wanted to give someone a decent creative outlet - which tsu is....
Given that I do not have an account on Facebook, it would seem I will never be using Tsu.
I agree. I have been waiting to see if Hubpages might return to what it once was, but it seems to be in a never ending downward spiral. I'm about to give it up completely. I haven't even bothered posting hubs for some time because I don't respect the page like I used to. I think, like many others before me, I'm going to say farewell.
Ed, please check out this thread: http://hubpages.com/literature/forum/13 … -and-poets
Ed: What a shame for "us" hopeless creatives, eh? Now, let me show you how to make a yummy cup-cake without baking! Lol! Kidding aside, it's a pity and it's sad that the real creatives are being narrowed down. We're doomed!
Ed, do you have a Facebook profile? If so, email me through my fan page so I can find your FB name, friend you, and add you to Jodah's fiction writers and poets group, "The Creative Exiles". We would love to have you in the group and on the web site when we get it set up. Thanks.
I would like to join as well as I write poetry too.
Thank you, Annabella. I will submit your application (which is your name and profile link) to our Selection Committee. I appreciate your interest in The Creative Exiles and I will get back to you). Do you have a Facebook profile I can find so to send you a friend request? I need your exact FB name.
Hello, old friend. I rarely visit HubPages these days, and your assessment is exactly what I now find offensive to my and others' writing skills. Though my hubs are non-fiction, I took great pride in developing and reading those skills.
I, too, miss those days, and now find myself writing a lonely blog. Community barely exists here any longer, and I feel lost without it.
very sorry to hear that poems are not well receive here
HubPages, can't ever be the way it use to be, when the best of the best start to flee, the new ones who come on board to moderate want to educate when they are the ones who have nothing on their plate.
Blessing my friend
HubPages is a business. It exists to make money from the articles published on the site. Therefore, what they've always wanted is articles that make money.
In the days when HubPages was doing well, it was happy to allow unprofitable writers on the site, because they enhanced the quality of the content. Now, the measures they've taken to combat spam also affect creative writers - and that's sad, but you have to see it from Hubpages' point of view. Why should they make special provision for writers who don't contribute to their business?
I know it's sad but why not just be glad that HP enabled you to write on a platform like this for so long.
Marissa, you made a kind offer on another thread to set up and even host a new site I suggested for creative writers. We have started a Facebook group to select and assemble a list of members and to discuss the pros and cons of our own niche site. All is looking promising. Could you just give me some idea of where the site you offer would be located and hosted eg. Wordpress, Blogger, GoDaddy etc. and any other details so I can take it to the group for discussion.
I would enjoy being part of your group Jodah
That's great Bella. You are a talented writer and I think you would be an asset. I have put your application before the selection committee of our Facebook page. You should find out in a day or so if successful.
The only way to run a multi contributor site is using Wordpress software. I would host it on my account with InMotion. I'm on vacation right now until the 19th
Given my predisposition for writing non-fiction, would I even be considered for this group, Jodah?
Hi lorlie6, the group has a selection committee who have to be in agreement to approve new members. Selection is based on the new site being solely devoted to poetry and fiction writing (maybe the odd how to write different types of poetry etc) and the applicant's reputation on HP etc..You are a very good writer but I suggest you would need to have a collection of poetry, short fiction stories etc for the team to look at before they could approve you. If you have a blog or somewhere else you can display that type of writing and can provide a link to..great. You post here does remind me I have to visit and read more of your great hubs though.
I do have a blog, Jodah, but again, it is non-fiction. I attempted to write some poetry today, and after three hours of gnashing teeth, recognized that it is one of the most exacting forms of writing I've ever tried! I gave up and don't intend to try it again any time soon. I have a newfound respect for poets, however, cramming so much meaning into individual words is exhausting.
I appreciate your candor, Jodah, and am off to find non-fiction groups.
That is sad news Ed. You are one of the best and most popular poets here. I hope you continue to share your work elsewhere so others cancontinue to enjoy it.
For me, HubPages is still the way it used to be. I wasn't earning much back then, either....
I am really sorry to know you will be leaving, Ed. It is sad to see HP long-timers going away - so many have already left. Wherever your path takes you, I wish you all the best and hope you will keep in touch. Take care, my friend.
HP was never the way it used to be. This is late capitalism.
Well - I for one have only just found you! So, please don't go. Us new-ish ones have much to discover here, and look to long time posters for inspiration.
They can be MLM not by treating use as a vendor, but--by their own admission--treating you as a product.
The wikipedia entry is not their words - from the mouth of the owner 'We have no products to sell...therefore how can we be an MLM' - they are not treating the users as a product.
From the official site and FAQ:
"tsū is a unique online community for content creators and consumers. Unlike most social networks, tsū strongly believes in rewarding users who contribute to the platform’s growth and success. As a result, we serve ads and share up to 90% of platform revenue with #originalcontent creators from around the world."
Which is similar to HP.
I gain nothing by promoting tsu - I've been on HP long enough to understand that some other sites are manipulative - like any site it's 'caveat emptor' - in their TOS they do state : "We do not claim ownership of any Content that you post on the Service" - and it easy to delete content.
You do grant them a nonexclusive right to use IP - but this is terminated when you delete their content or close your account.
(Sigh) I miss it too, ahorseback. So much has changed about the community in just 3 years. I've enjoyed your poetry immensely. I wish you the best.
I've only been back a few months, ahorseback, but I don't think I will be far behind. My most popular hub has been unfeatured this week for traffic, despite pulling in 1/4 of it's total views in the same week.
Had I known that HP had taken out Squidoo before I came back, I doubt that I would have. I have one site designed (on paper) for one group of my hubs already. The rest will come down and go onto my existing site, or into my next eBook. At least I can make some money then.
The "niche" sites have been the final straw. Already the team's priority has clearly shifted to promoting/preening their new love children.
All the best for the future
I find myself missing the old community feeling , in the end I think I really should have somehow self ,or perhaps kindle-amazon published and not wasted years and any of my passion for writing on a place that has become very much diluted in the boredom of money making for most and lack of true art , as Hubs is becoming for me .
But I do truly love the people I've met here !
You know, Ed, HP has become very diluted with similar content. This makes it difficult for readers to choose which hub to read on a subject they are looking for IMHO.
I also miss the smaller community we once had. There was more support then for each other. Many of the veterans have either left and just have no motivation to publish very much.
HP has set what they call a high standard for writing articles, but, they also allow anyone without experience to pop in and start writing without studying the rules / policies, etc. I have mentioned more than a few times that I think HP should begin their high quality goals right at the beginning when someone signs up. Newbies should have to apply and go through a rigorous training period before they can publish anything. The training should be in a separate module that is not visible to the public. If the new person does not pass the training tests then their application should be denied with a "Thanks for applying. Please study the requirements, rules, etc. and try again in 3 months." (just an example). With a program like that the only hubbers would be well qualified and produce high quality content.
I have been saying the same thing for years too.
The current policy seems to me very complicated, giving staff double or triple the amount of work: First they allow anyone to publish any old crap (on the main HP site), then they unfeature the crap. And then, they have to search through all that crap to find decent hubs for the new sites.
I suppose not featuring a hub is the same thing as keeping it unpublished (in draft form). Or is it? Do unfeatured hubs affect the main HubPages site's reputation? Why not simply delete all unfeatured hubs and be done with it? So the main site still contains decent content while the cream goes to the new niche sites?
What we're saying is: Surely it would be more simple, less work, to NOT publish poor quality content in the first place by having a vetting system for newcomers. A simple test as you describe, Phyllis, would do. Then people say: We are understaffed, no man/woman power, no money, to introduce a vetting scheme. But think long term, once it is in place, the main site's future would surely look brighter and safer.
My mind boggles...
I agree, Sue, that a vetting system would be beneficial and even save money in the long run. Having to search through and weed out all the crap must involve a lot of time and expense. Having a training course up front would prevent all the time consuming tasks that should not even be present.
"I Wish HubPages was the way it used to be .........?"
I'm surprised I didn't come up with this sooner, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KODZtjOIPg
I came to HubPages thinking that it was a very active site, but it is kind of the opposite unless your hubs are chosen by editors, who are just other people who have other opinions on what is more important to show people... I feel as though all my hubs are being done in vain because there are literally not much comments or replies to hubs that I do (with all my heart). I want to converse and debate about things and share things but it seems that HubPages is so regulated and I feel like a ghost.
I understand that creative writing has never been very lucrative on HubPages, but for a number of years, it played a huge role in the spirit of the community. In recent years, the HubPages staff seem to miss the significance of this community completely. I know quite a few Hubbers who published evergreen articles alongside occasional poetry and fiction. Many of these individuals supported my work and regularly promoted it on social media, which did drive revenue for me...and HubPages. I know that I'm far from the only Hubber that benefited from this community support. These days I'm pitifully grateful to get a new social media share from a Hubber. I made enough on HubPages last year that it continues to be worth it for me to contribute one or two new articles per month. Putting aside the numerous issues that I've had with HubPages in general these past few years, ultimately I'm still here because I'm still making money. The HubPages community was integral to the beginning of my freelance writing career, and I would be sad to give up writing here entirely. But I will if there comes a time that it makes sense to do so.
I believe Hub Pages is going the way of "Too big for it's own pants ", Grown away from its small community feel and towards the all the god-like high profitability , the good old American way . By now , in our new age economy , they should realize ,........ And they will , that big isn't always better , JMHO.
Honestly, I think it's hard to say. I'm sure team HP see's the impact the creatives have on the site, which seems to really build the community nature of the page. It brings variety to the experience.
I think it is less them going towards profitability then profitability running away and them trying to keep it in sight.
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