Ok...right off the top I am sure this is an impossible idea...but anyway here goes.
What if Hubpages put a DONATE button on our Hubs so that if someone donated through PAYPAL then HUBPAGES would get the donation right away, and then they would put 60% of the donation into the author's Paypal account and Hubpages would keep the other 40% of the donation.
So if someone donates to say me, Answer Man, I would get 60% of the donation and Hubpages would get the other 40%.
OK...dumb idea. But I have them all the time.
Its called micropayments...not a new idea at all. I saw it discussed back in 1998. Take a look at my hub on a discussion about micropayments.
I cerainly will take a good, hard look at them. Thanks for the tip.
Get out of the wrong side of bed today did we Misha
Micropayments are relevant to the discussion, and a mention about hub is fine.
Ferrcrissakes, It's not even a link!
Cheers, Eric G.
Why would a for-profit company with investors and advertising have a donation button?
Just another income stream :-)
Actually, I think it's a good idea!
Plus one. Actually in my culture it is shameful to ask for donation if you can feed yourself. Talking about greed...
This is not shameful you are not begging you are not saying please give me some money I need to feed my family and all that, you simple say "if you like this article and would like to donate then you can do so by following the link below" This is not begging or shameful, This is readers showing their appreciation for you taking the time to research a subject and then write about it. Not many people now a days click on google ads and a new revenue source is needed. I think Donations is one option.
Rilly? I should be missing something, but in my understanding you either sell something for money (including your labor), or you beg. Asking for donations does not look like selling.
Do you not think writing is not a form of labor. The hub i am currently making has taken 5 days upto now and I still have not finished. People give donations to organizations all the time, even my daughters school asks for donations for school trips. by doing this they can allow people who can not afford the a fee the opportunity of attending the trip. I think like this to. I never ask for money for information otherwise i would have been selling a long time ago on clickbank. I like to give information away for free, If people want to make a donation then the option should be available. I have given many donations to writers and blogs over the years and I have given this as the information saved me lots of time and thought it well deserved a donation. Begging or panhandling is to request a donation in a supplicating manner. like getting down on your knees and bowing, sitting on the street corner with a cup and a dog for sympathy, this is begging. Think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Have a good night Misha.
Hey Misha, What if i am struggling to feed myself and keep a roof over my head. i just asked for donations on my site.
Do it on your own site, I have no problem. It is not a terribly effective way, and there are better ways to make money for a pretty girl with brains - but if this is your choice it is your choice.
Now, if you come to Hubpages and demand they implement this button for you and ruin their business model and credibility of every serious hubber around - I object.
You want donations? I do not think donations can work. If people are unable to do a simple click, what of donations?
If you want to put a donation button you just add a link on your hubs and on your profile page.
Donations do work and people do donate if they like your work or service. You can link from within you hub so should be ok to do it that way however can we add a link to an image using hubpages as a donate button warrants an eye catching image/button.
IDEA is good...but not for Hubpages.. Still second the above thoughts !
I think its a good idea. also Adsense within the forum would be a good idea to. the more ad placements to higher our potential of making a few bucks the better.
I think the problem with this would be sorting out teh splitting of revenue.
a rotation system could be used with ease. I use on one of my websites for our homepage so members can earn from our homepage as well as there member pages.
Well I would suppose so. However I was thinking of other problems. How would it be rotated etc with regards to multiple postings from teh same problem. However, the biggets problem I have with it is it may encourage people to post useless posts with the hope of earning some more money. However, if all of this could be sorted out it would be useful, particularly for those who make a lot of comments on the forum.
why visitors will pay.
i think they come here for only free resource.
Has anybody had any success using a donation button elsewhere?
I've never used one, and I've never donated via one, I think I would have to come across something unbelievably useful to actually part with cash for reading it, possibly a 'get rich quick' scheme that actually worked or a 'meet hot lonely women that want to meet you tonight in your area' site that actually had any hot lonely women that wanted to meet me tonight.
This could definitely evoke potential fraud. Pseudo charities and other scam artists could really manipulate this.
It'd be a nightmare.
Sounds like begging to me - I have always shied away from using a "Donate" button on my own sites and would not like to see it here.
Wow...I'm astounded how this got screwed around. To put a donation button on your free Hub (all Hubs are free to read) is not begging. You have made them laugh, or informed them, or done some other service for them, all for free. Now, if they like it, they donate. What's the "begging" thing? I don't get it. Begging is what you do to get money for nothing. Writing a Hub is NOT nothing. It is an effort and it is a talent and it is a service.
After all, Donation isn't imposed. It's voluntary.
It's probably just a different culture. Not gonna argue over it any more. I stated my opinion - I am against it.
Not sure how you think it got "turned around." I for one equate it with begging. That is just my opinion. I see beggars all the time. Sometimes they clean my windshield first.
Your right answerman its not begging. I ask for donations on one of my hubs!
Regardless, I still find it tacky when I see it on web sites or blogs.
I think I am swimming up-stream here, but so be it.
For one, we are NOT living in Russia like Misha still is apparently, if only in his head, and we are not begging for money for work not done.
To write is a gift that most people do not have, just like the gift of preaching...and who says Billy Graham or any other preacher is "begging" because, at the end of his sermon, he asks for donations?
Really I am trying to help us Hubbers. Why does it feel like I'm trying to attack?
Well, I think Billy Graham is scum and all preachers are begging for money. That is what they do.
Hope that helps.
Well I have never lived in Russia but I certainly do agree with Misha. "Donation" implies charity and it certainly does smack of "begging."
Asking for "donations" is announcing to the world that you need to beg your readers for cash because no one else will pay you to be a writer; it screams "amateur".
It is irrelevant what you "think" Mark. What matters is that those preachers make millions of dollars by simply asking for it.
So much more should we Hubbers be NOT ASHAMED of asking for donations for work well done.
I think Hubbers have, from what I am hearing, a very low opinion of themselves and their writing.
We can do better people. We can ask for freely given donations for our hard won efforts to provide FREE content to the internet.
Just bc they scam people into giving them money, doesn't make it right.
Also, I'd rather earn the money rightfully rather than beg for a donation. That's not being ashamed.
May you should try it out with a link of some sort that provides all the info to giving you money.
I highly doubt this will work. I've seen a number of donate buttons on websites, and I can honestly say that no matter how good the website is, I've never clicked and given money to someone who is offering me tips or whatever for free.
It is not irrelevant what I think. I am not prepared to stoop as low as these preachers. You know - morals. Personally - I make a reasonable income doing this. Sorry you are so inept you need to beg for donations, but I am not interested in doing so.
I agree with donations however I despise asking for donations. Now I know why they are all against you. Directly asking for donation is begging.
Ask for MONEY to provide FREE content?
You'd made a good head of propaganda back in Soviet Russia
Apply to Obama government, they need right people
Misha, I am saying that we provide free content, no questions asked. And then, if our free content, is especially appreciated, donate.
The content is always free. But appreciation for work well done, or extraordinary work, or work that made me laugh better than I did when I went to that stupid movie last week and paid 7.00 to watch....you get the idea Misha?
Donations are NOT begging. Donations are a way of saying "if I did better than average, if I did better than you would see at a film or read in book...then donate to keep me writing MORE!"
That's all I am saying.
I think it's a bad idea - not in favor of it at all.
I do equate it with begging and scams. Would not want one on any of my hubpages.
Misha: I do understand what you are saying. But you don't understand what I am saying. IF you did, you would agree.
To ask for freely given donations for work FREELY given, is not begging.
It is crooked thinking to think it is!
If I give you an apple, that I grew on my farm, freely, and you take it, fine. Enjoy.
But if there is a box at my "free apple stand" that says "if you enjoyed your free apple, please feel free to donate whatever you wish"...that is NOT begging.
They have their apple. They are eating their apple. No problem.
But if they want to toss a nickle into the box for the delicious, tasty, tarty, big, free apple , then fine!
It will help me grow more such apples!
Reminds me a little of the Hare Krishna who always come up and give me my 'free' joss-sticks at music festivals, before waving their collection box at me and informing me that the suggested donation is at least a pound.
Man, I can't ignore it when people address me directly. Yet I don't have much else to say.
I DO understand this model, if fact I was familiar with it long before I even came to Hubpages. More, I did pay using this model for some products I wanted to pay for. This does not change the fact that this is begging by my definitions. This also does not change the fact that I do not want to use this model on my pages, because it does not fit my business rules.
Now, implementation of your model will require Hubpages to get into the business of dealing with customers money - which they were trying to avoid like a plague, and I have a wild guess they still will
Misha: I don't understand what you are saying about Hubpages getting into the business of "dealing with customers money"...I have no idea what you are saying...they already deal with OUR money by taking their 40% off the top of our hubs. If that isn't being involved with our money, I don't know what is!
But I do think that you and me and every Hubber who spends hours and hours over their computers, putting together hubs that thrill, engage, titillate, or otherwise speak to the reader, should get as much as they ethically can for their writing...and a voluntary donation is nothing less than a voluntary donation.
Hubpages has nothing to do with taking any money from you. They never touch it. They share advertising impressions on a webpage. None of what you earn here ever goes through the hands of hubpages before it gets to you.
She's right. Google Adsense, Amazaon, Ebay, and Kontera, all pay us, not HubPages. 40% of impressions are there's and 60% ours, and they earn on that percent and us ours
You are getting rude. And laughable at that, because you show off your utter ignorance.
I say that Misha, because the statement was utterly ridiculous and not following the course of the converation.
You are above such stupid remarks Misha.
Well they don't really deal with our money. They have their Adsense ID which they use to earn income, and probably a Kontera, eBay and Amazon affiliate account and as far as I'm aware that is their only streams of income. They technically never touch our money and as far as I can tell only have to deal with 4 companies paying Hubpages lots of money, as opposed to loads of companies paying a little amount each. The former is a much easier thing to administrate from a business point of view and probably the most sensible and possibly profitable (less admin etc involved and when dealing with respected companies like Google, eBay, Amazon etc less risk of default).
I'm not sure what me and Sunstreeks did to result in your suggesting that we were crazy. We merely pointed out that Hubpages don't touch any money which is ours. All of the money we recieve doesn't go through Hubpages at all. The Adsense ID is rotated, theirs 40% of the time, ours the other 60% (I'm ignoring referrals for simplicity!). If you think they are scamming you try checking this - several people have and 40% it is their adverts and 60% ours. Until you can prove otherwise I wouldn't go around claiming Hubpages are scamming us, especially not on their website!
Uh-oh, you have no idea whatsoever about current Hubpages business model, yet you are trying to "improve" it LOL. Hubpages don't touch your money. EVER. You get your payments - if any - directly from Google, or Amazon, or Ebay. Hubpages share ad impressions, which means 60% of times ads are shown with your ID, and 40% of times - with their. Great idea, and the most transparent model in the industry. There is no room for cheating in this model, unlike any other revenue sharing site you pick. This is what sets HP aside, and I am pretty sure they won't ruin their major selling point just to let you see for yourself that "voluntary donation" does not work.
World is not "fair", get used to it. If you want to get money for your work, you have to sell it first. And the one who buys does not give a shit about how many hours you spent on this piece of your work or how many sacrifices you made along the road...
I just realized that this is through paypal. So maybe people who have been tossed from Adsense or can't get accepted to that or to any of the other affiliate programs want this.
Nelle Hoxie: That's the idea in my head. Let people donate to Hubpages, and then let Hubpages distribute back the donation to the authors, by a 40/60 percentage.
You are comparing Hare Krishna crap to a well-written, witty, carefully thought-out Hub?
Are you serious?
But seriously, Hubbers are hard working people. There is not a single hub, not a single one that doesn't represent hours of work...thought...imagination and creativity. Even the lowest ranked Hubs often have something in them that will spark you or set you off in a direction that you never suspected.
I think that is worth something, and I don't mean a begging cup. I mean the OPTION to say to the author "This was GREAT!"...I mean are people going to donate a dollar if they think "this sucks" ?
It's simply a bonus for work well-done.
The other day Mr. XYZ told us he was not of very good health and he had 25 to 30 days to live. He got very many good comments and what was missing was the donation button…..
I'm not here for the money, I don't even have a google account, so if you click it goes directly to hp. I think it would ruin people's perception of other hubbers if they saw a donate button on their hubs.
I second Misha when he says it's begging. If you want money, sell your product. I see Cindyvine advertises her book in most of her hubs, but that's a totally different thing than a donate button, because she ha to work quite a bit on that book, I'm sure.
If I find that ONLY Hubpages offers the perfect 'venue' for my writing, I should not have to go other places to offer my...as you call it "product". But really we are NOT selling product here at Hubpages. We are selling talent, wit, information, and many other things, that can only be presented via Hubpages unique format.
We're not selling anything.
Personally, it's more than a bad idea- terrible. It's tacky, as mentioned here. And that's TOO many hands touching the money that's intended for me. Man A gives to Man C to give to man B is too much.
Whit: even if Man B gives to Man A and you receive amount X...it will still be more than you got before. It will still be what Man A gives you..and that could be way more than Google does.
Still way too many hands touching money. Think about it there are tons of writers, how would the team keep things separate? It's a silly idea and more trouble than it's worth.
Sorry Whit, but if they can figure out a way to make our Google clicks go to our bank accounts, they certainly can do this simple trick.
You and I are not geeks, or webmasters, but this is a piece of cake to the likes of Hubpages...and the fact that they have not done it already makes me wonder....
I guess hubpages does not want to rely on the begging model either huh?
Oh - I am sorry - did you not understand what has been said? Donate = Begging. Is that more clear?
I guess hubpages could have implemented a Begging button if they had wished to. But they don't seem to have done that. Bet you can work it out if you try.
Mark: thanks for your not so fullsome answer. The fact is that I, unlike you, am trying to get more money into the pockets of Hubbers who don't have your 'knack' of making big bucks outside of Hubpages....as you already stated.
I am trying to help out hubbers who do not have Mr. Mark's talent at making a profit outside of Hubpages.
I am just trying to help out the poor, hard working writer who wants to make a few dollars to pay his or her hydro nill, or grocery bill.
Excuse me Mark Knowles for stepping on your toes on behalf of the hubbers who try so hard to make a little money for themselves.
I make plenty of money here thank you. You think I would be here if I didn't? Don't recall mentioning any money outside of hubpages. Perhaps you would care to quote me?
You threw something out for discussion. Why are you so upset that some of us disagree with the idea?
I know you have blogs etc. Mark. I assumed you were speaking of them. I apoogize if I mis-understood.
No worries. I have always been open and honest with the amount of money I make here. I don't generally talk about what I make elsewhere, but if you read a few of my hubs, you will see what you can make here. And I have no need of a "begging ' button.
They, being Google can send you your clicks to your bank account because you give them the number. It's not that hard to comprehend. You don't have to be a web-genius to figure that one out. If I had your bank account number, I could do the same.
HubPages doesn't touch our money. They don't 'send Google clicks to our banks'. They don't take 40% off the top.
They serve ads. They have 40% and we have 60%. Nothing has been clicked at this stage. The clicks come AFTER the ad impressions have been divvied up.
When a person clicks on an ad that is associated to your Adsense Publisher ID, then it's all yours. Google sorts it out. HubPages has no say or hand in it.
Get used to it, my friend. As long as you want money for it, it's your product.
Can't speak for anybody else, but I have no interest in a donation button - if people donate a dollar, all of the little donations are going to make doing the end-of-year accounts a nightmare.
Most donation buttons go through paypal and it would not be terribly difficult to set it up so the donations alternated between a hubbers paypal account and HP's own paypal account. So there is no reason that HP would start having to "handle" everyone's money.
It would still be largely a waste of time and space. People very rarely donate to individuals.
Well, just to play Devil's advocate, because that's so fun to do:
1. Street performers often play music on the street (imagine how silly it would be if they played in trees or bathrooms and were still called stree performers)... they leave their guitar cases (or whatever) open in front of them. Since musicians are counted as artists, and writers can be counted as artists, how is having an open guitar case button begging? And if it IS "begging" by some perverse wealth-centric secret morality, how is out of keeping with the artistic tradition that predates it by centuries?
Hubpages has essentially provided us all with a street, why should their be limitations on what our guitar case looks like or how it is opened up?
2. There is no reason why the money could not go to charity or another good cause, so to assume "greed" is to project intent with a wide... uh... intent projecting brush... or something.
P.S. The Devil says, "Hi, Mark."
That's an interesting twist Shades, have to think on what to answer you
There is a difference between begging and busking. And if I saw a musician playing while telling a sob story and asking people to give, that would be begging.
On the other hand a person playing (and playing exceptionally well I might add) without drawing attention to the protocol of throwing money into the empty guitar case (unless they have a comedic bend), gets my respect. And some coins.
The problem with implementing a donation system is, unless police, it will cause some people (lets give our current members the benefit of the doubt and say it'll entice newbs to sign up) that will misuse the feature. And will cheapen the site.
I agree there is a difference ,but how is providing a service considered begging?
I like the idea of free enterprise and I beleive in credit where due.
For example darkside there are a couple of hubs youve written that I would have donated too,because it saved me time ,and gas and $10 to buy a booklet that would end up covered in dust 6mths from now.
But, sigh I guess I can see where this might all lead too.
More money than we recieve via Google.
Well thats that, I s'pose.
Providing services is not begging. Asking for donations is. And we all know about your love to BigG, and you sticking it here does not make any sense
Being lazy as I am, I think I second you on this response to the devil's advocate, Glen
Well if the reason that these artists were not allowed to open a guitar case and place it discretely before them was because of preemptive anti a-hole rules, then that's a sad, sad state of affairs. The good are penalized even prior to the bad perpetrating the crime.
Um, yeah. You know, it's funny you say that, I was just reading some Dickens and it's funny, there's a character named Mark Knowles in one of his novels that said ... well, here, I'll just paste the section of the book in for you:
The clerk, in letting Mark Knowles' nephew out, had let two other people in. They were portly gentlemen, pleasant to behold, and now stood, with their hats off, in Mark Knowles' office. They had books and papers in their hands, and bowed to him.
'Knowles and Marley's, I believe,' said one of the gentlemen, referring to his list. 'Have I the pleasure of addressing Mr Knowles, or Mr Marley?'
'Mr Marley has been dead these seven years,' Mark replied. 'He died seven years ago, this very night.'
'We have no doubt his liberality is well represented by his surviving partner,' said the gentleman, presenting his credentials.
'It certainly was, for they had been two kindred spirits. At the ominous word liberality, Mark frowned, and shook his head, and handed the credentials back.
'They are. Still,' returned the gentleman,' I wish I could say they were not.'
'The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?' said Mark Knowles.
'At this festive season of the year, Mr Knowles,' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, 'it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.'
'Are there no prisons?"
'Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
'And the Union workhouses.' demanded Mark Knowles. 'Are they still in operation?'
'Both very busy, sir.'
'Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,' said Mark Knowles. 'I'm very glad to hear it.'
'Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,' returned the gentleman, 'a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'
'Nothing!' Mark Knowles replied.
'You wish to be anonymous?'
'I wish to be left alone,' said Mark Knowles. 'Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned-they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.'
'Many can't go there; and many would rather die.'
'If they would rather die,' said Mark Knowles, 'they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
Shades, I hereby award you the coveted triple LOL award
And from now on, until the interwebz turns to dust, I decree that Mark Knowles be given the nickname "Ebenezer".
I second that award.
Ebeneezer Knowles. Has a nice ring to it.
My great-great aunt Florence married a chap called Ebenezer. Whereupon they were, naturally, known as "Ebb and Flo" for the rest of their lives.
Its not too hard to understand. You get X for advertising and Y for a donation. Unfortunately to make a small donation, costs money (see what the payment providers charge for making small payments, its not peanuts). So you can't expect to get all of Y.
Hey Nick - how's it hangin'?
I prefer to think of hubpages as a street in Monaco - where the pimps, panhandlers, buskers, beggars and spammers get quietly swept up into the back of a police van and deposited the other side of the border on a regular basis.
Donations idea yea why not ,gosh they have them on every counter of most stores throughout the land , and yes I need a home and food to eat just like that puppy on that container.
I agree with g.g too , scammers and the like.
Perhaps it is the method that would need tweeking. Maybe the donor pays another way to HB and its re-imbursed later to the Hubber?
Misha yea against my culture to ask for money too, but Im willing to reconsider some of my cultural values lol
Actually I do reconsider ALL my cultural luggage for quite some time already. Don't think I want to get rid of that particular piece just yet though, but definitely don't swear I never will.
lol well look at like tipping someone (only for good service)
(which is kinda rich because tipping is not a custom in my country either)...
but when in Rome
A donation button would only encourage panhandlers from sprouting hard luck stories (some real, most completely insignificant or non-existent).
I believe in charity, but begging doesn't earn respect.
I dont see too much difference since some charities have been challenged in the past over misappropriation of funds.
Hub pages is a great site ,thats why I love to read and write here ,but seriously some people seem to be a little too protective and attached.
I find that just a bit wierd and pretentious.
Its a website.
I have mixed feelings. I do think it could be considered a little tacky, though I don't agree with the begging logic. To me, begging is asking for something for nothing. Like was mentioned, writing hubs is not nothing.
Also, isn't putting ads on the hubs along the same lines? You're indirectly asking (or perhaps trying to indirectly manipulate) people to click on the links and/or buy something from Amazon. Otherwise, why are they there?
As for why a company does anything - well let's not go there. Companies do screwed up stuff all the time. Doesn't mean hubpages should of course, but that's a pretty loaded question. It's like asking why did GM let themselves get into this mess they are in now?
Granted, I'm new here, I'm not sure how the whole money-via-clicks and impressions thing works, except I have no money from the process.
Many of the posters in this thread are obviously unaware of Hub Pages plan to impose fees according to the length of your forum posts.
So those of you who are posting a line or two of your thoughts at the end of 5 screens of what someone else has said will be directly affected.
Have a look at "Hub Pages To Charge form Forum Posts" at
Discover how you can avoid these fees, and at the same time, make the forums a nicer place for everyone.
Cheers, Eric G.
I've read this post with interest. Therefore I'm conducting an experiment. Those that think it's begging for the sake of - well - begging, you are excused. By yourselves a cool beer. Or something.
However, those that are in support and feel individuals should be able to garner money by way of a donate button, please check out my hubs. If you feel I'm worthy of taking a share of your hard earned, click this: which you will find at the bottom of my hubs.
Thankyou for taking part in this experiment by way of putting your money where your mouth is
NB Your money will not be returned to you at any point in the future
Wonderful Mr Knowles! I shall look forwards to its arrival as/when/never
Thats the problem, your technique is too brutal...it needs to be pursuasive. Use words like support rather than donate (or beg). Its going to work, I have a feeling in my water.
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