There have been a few threads going on that are harping on the personal family issues of some politicians, namely Sarah Palin.
Yes, these individuals are heavily exposed because they chose to run for office, but why the downright ill will towards the people themselves or even their husband or wife?
It's one thing to despise their policies, but them personally?
If someone does something at your work place that you really don't like, do you make fun of them and say cruel things about their family? No, absolutely not. You don't like what they've done, whether it's their management skills or their policies, but you don't make jokes about their kids and what not.
I am constantly amazed at the hatred and ill will towards people in the spotlight. If you know and have met the person, it's one thing - but 99.9% of people criticizing only base it upon things the media says or portrays.
My question: why is ok to be so cruel to people just because they're in the spotlight? I've never understood that. It's one of the reasons why I retired from politics at the age of 22. It is so freaking frustrating to listen to what other says about the people you work for, are loyal to and believe in. The people you know and have conversed with, the people who's family you've met.
Anyways, I'm not trying to lecture anyone or change anyone's opinion (I am only 22 and still have a lot of learning to do, afterall! I just needed to vent. Please just remember that sometimes there are two sides to every story. Always.
I don't care if I lose fans with this post, I needed to say what's been brewing for a while.
It's fine to judge and hate people's policies, but to make fun of and criticize how they run their families, even criticize their children and spouse is a completely different story. You've never met them or worked with them, how can you judge someone by the VERY warped information the media gives you. Furthermore, is it fair to judge based off of incorrect information? I'm glad that people don't judge me this way.
The Palin kids are VERY lucky to have parents like Todd & Sarah.
And I'm not just making that statement because of pictures I've seen or clips I've watched.
That was excellent. Thanks for sharing your reasonable point of view. Although, I'm afraid it will fall on a lot of deaf ears around here.
It is what some people do, usually, if they criticise someone that is wealthy it is because, they are not, if they criticise someone that is powerful it is that they are not.
"It is I believe what is called "Tall Poppy syndrome"
I think people might be feel worse for Sarah Palin if she hadn't shown so much ill will and spite herself during the campaign. I saw McCain rallies where she was speaking and people were screaming "Kill him!" about Obama and she just smiled--she said nothing to stop that.
I think she's vile. I don't mind saying I think she's vile. It frightens me that some people look at her and see a role model. She's Lady MacBeth, but not as smart and way, way meaner.
Not only do I realize that you need to do alot of research on just what is going on in the political scene pgrundy, I also personally think you need to look outside of your own personal agenda and angst.
The presidential election campaign of 2008 was riddled with controversy and upheaval that far too many of the average Americans know absolutely nothing about. If you knew the various murders and espionage which paralleled the audacious lies and out right propaganda that allowed Obama to get elected, you may think differently about some idiot screaming "kill im" at a political event where merely the fact that nobody told the wacko to "shut the hell up" justifies indictment in your mind. Just what were they supposed to do? The guy was not breaking any law. Would you rather they made a scene? OBVIOUSLY. But why? Of course, to placate your own personal angst. You seem to have fallen for much of the media hype.
Fortunately for all of us, Mrs. Palin is much more tolerant than you appear to be. She was extremely demure and respectful throughout all of the nefarious canards employed by the Obama administration...as I wathced that man display an erection for the female media envoys and staff...you have no idea. As well, the double standard which placed Obama's family "off-limits" is still to this day attacking Palins family.
I refuse to spend any more effort on the likes of you!!!
Urimadden - I understand most of what you're saying in your post, but it also doesn't help to get personal, as well.
The fact of the matter is that there a lot of things that go on that people have no idea about. Things that will never come out for one reason or another.
I honestly can't blame people for being so disenchanted with our political system. For me, being on the inside of it was frustrating, and I understand how an average voter could be so disenchanted.
I loved what I got to do, who I got to meet, where I got to travel to and what not, but it gave me an insider's view that really proves "There is ALWAYS two sides to every story."
Does Fox News accurately portray both sides? No.
Does CNN or MSNBC? No.
In closing, I have learned that there are just some things that you can never argue and never change people's opinion on. So, I'm not going to take the bait and continue on here.
I'm not arguing politics, I'm arguing making judgments of someone's character without ever meeting them.
But we're all expected to do that right?
The majority of the population don't get to meet political candidates but are expected to make a decision (which in itself is judgment) about whether or not we want to see that person representing us.
Those politicians use the media to convey their message. So if they come off looking like a fool or things get dug up that they'd rather remain buried, then it's part of the process.
In Australia voting is compulsory. If I don't vote, I get fined. Now if I didn't vote and I get the fine am I able to respond and say "well, I really didn't want to make a judgment. How am I supposed to vote for someone if I don't know them, or I've never met them?"
Are you serious?!? I never was aware of this. I hope the U.S. doesn't pick up this system.
You can make a judgment on how they present the issues. If you don't like the issues, don't vote for that person. Voters should vote on the issues. Now obviously, I know this doesn't happen lol...but it just gets tiring for me time after time to hear people making cracks about peoples spouses and kids and personal character when they've never met them.
For example I, personally support the 2nd Ammendment, the right to bear arms. Does that make me an evil, vile person? Now keep in mind that I love puppies and kittens and getting my nails done.
If you call me evil just because I support the 2nd ammendment and don't hate guns, it doesn't make me a bad person. I'm actually quite nice, I promise! lol
That's just it, we can't just vote on the issue we have to make judgments based on the character of the person presenting the issues. It's not a perfect system and there never will be. The human construct is part of the equation.
I doubt they ever will. But why the surprise? Do you think it's a bad system? Everyone votes, everyone has a say, no excuses.
People can get up and talk about issues and pay lip service, and they might be talking the talk but are they walking the walk?
That's what the media is for. Interviews and not asking easy questions. And if they need to dig up some dirt, then so be it. The people need to know the truth. It's not a new thing by any means, so people shouldn't be surprised that when the spotlight lands on them that it doesn't also expose the flaws.
Well said Darkside. Just to add, I think that if you choose to be a politician, especially on the national scale, you have to be "thick skinned." This goes for all celebrities too. Don't ask for the public to support you and then get pissy when we choose not to.
As far as making judgements on peoples character, we do that everyday. But I can see GirlyGirls point on making personal attacks towards their families who probably did not have a choice at being put in the public eye. Those kinds of attacks are deplorable.
There actually isn't. There are far more than two sides to every story. There are at least three.
Forget about us. Don't the politicians do that to each other. I guess if one is a public personality (like singers/actors/politicians and so on) then they have to be prepared for the public scrutiny since they are now also "brands"(its like a package deal one has to take the good with the bad). I agree kids should be off limits but then how does it appear preaching to the electorate "values" which doesn't go down well even within there own families. People expect them to "walk the talk". Just my two cents.
Agreed. (And BTW, Pam, U. was once banned for reasons I'm not going to discuss here...)
And, I'm not just reacting to what I saw as a casual observer in the media, either. I've always been way political--since like, high school, really. However--I felt the outcome of this particular presidential race were SO important, I bordered on overly-political junkie (um, lol, obvious?). So that I did extensive research on Palin, reading several blogs a day, following almost all coverage. She's vile (and, ahem, I don't mean that in a funny way). She's vile.
She's the nasty mean cheerleader witch that had everyone fooled on a surface level while she wheeled and dealed, stabbing anyone who she didn't like in the back (witness the attack on the former brother-in-law. The Palin women are every man's worst case scenario divorce nightmare--vindictive and out to kill). There are soooo many Palingates I don't even want to start. But the main thing is that she was vastly, horribly, embarrassingly unqualified--and to have an ego to accept the position in running that she did--it almost made me do a turn-about and feel deeply sorry for her (which I sometimes do for innately, unfathomably dumb people). That is, if she were not so very, very dangerous to our freedoms and everything this country stands for.
Maybe you need to read the very first post of this thread again...
Maybe you do. OR, write some more about squirrels, lol, .
I'd point out I've no issue with girly-girl. She's intelligent, articulate, decent--and it is obvious. I've nothing but respect for a person like this, regardless of views. BTW, one of my 'heroes,' if I have such a thing, is Andrew Sullivan. Conservative. I've also been known to date cute male conservatives.
So, sorry, TK. The issues you obviously have with people is YOUR problem.
I'm sorry you think she's vile, but I guess I don't blame you based upon how the media portrays her.
As for the "Kill Him" at a rally, it is near impossible for the speaker to hear what the crowd is saying based upon the acoustics.
I've heard candidates say "What were they saying?!?" after the get off the stage. Of course the media loved to play that up! I think that's a very extreme circumstance. One that I personally know doesn't reflect her true character.
Well, I watched her say that the war in Iraq is god's war. That and the pregnant teenager were enough to persuade me she is a self serving politician with the morals of toad. As for the IQ, well.........
But then I think all politicians are pond scum. Pretty pond scum is not more appealing than ugly pond scum. Pity she is so dumb.
What you need to see is - she was such a bad choice, that I am inclined to think it was intentional and what we have now is 4 years of waiting for the change that will never come......
I'm not saying she was the best choice for VP, I'm not even saying she's a good politician. I'm limited as to what I can say about her selection, but I'm not going to argue much about it.
I'm saying that it shocks me that people make personal judgments without even knowing a person. This applies to anyone in the spotlight.
As for all politicians being pond scum, that's your opinion and one that I certainly can't blame you for. I've worked with several high profile ones so I know that it isn't true that "all politicians are scum", but sure there are some that ruin it for the others.
Politician is a dirty word, I've never liked it and rarely use it.
"...as I wathced that man display an erection for the female media envoys and staff...you have no idea."
Say WHAT????? Are you saying that President Obama showed his female staff his erection and you are somehow privy to this information even though no one else on earth knows about it? Are you completely insane?
You attack my character and then in your next breath you start drooling on your own shirt and foaming at the mouth.
Kind of weakens your argument.
The entire Palin family became "fair game" the minute they stepped into the limelight with Sarah. She is the one who paraded them all out for the world (including the media and comedians) to see. She can't now say, "Don't talk about my family." It's too late.
But speaking of fair game -- I actually feel sorrier for the families of the animals Sarah et al choose to hunt for sport.
Exactly. The way a person behaves in the public eye matters. If Palin can't manage media exposure without taking insult to this or that every couple of days, she should get out of politics. Go start a talk show or something.
She's all about, "I'm one tough lady," but she's constantly in front of cameras complaining about how unfair the mean old media is and how people are saying bad things about her and blah blah blah. That kind of whiny-ass girl gossip wouldn't even fly at my crappy cubicle job--they'd be like, Oh God Pam, suck it up, will you?
It's like she thinks she's in junior high school, not national politics.
Wow. I don't think you'd say that with her kids in the room.
Anyways, I'm going to stop writing about this because it's too personal for me. I encountered their family many times on the campaign trail last year. They're not evil people. I would love to have had parents like Sarah and Todd growing up.
Everyone has their own opinion, I can't change anything. I'm aware of that. I have mine, you have yours and that is what makes the world go round.
I just wish that people could be more respectful, that's all. Debates can be fun and educational experiences when personal attacks aren't being made.
Sarah Palin is a very poor example, because she chose to bring her children and daughter's boyfriend and stick them on a stage.
She put them there, no-one else.
It's also highly relevant when someone makes a big deal about "just say no" sex education and winds up with a gym-slip pregnant daughter.
I don't know much about either Gordon Brown's children (he's Prime Minister) or David Cameron's children (leader of the Opposition) because they aren't dragged out at party conferences. In fact, about the only thing I do know is that each had his eldest son die from a genetic illness, GB's shortly after birth, and DC's recently, aged 7 or 8 years old.
I think GirlyGirl, that having the personal connection to the Palins as you had, you were insightful to their behind the scenes character. And, I think you're conflict is coming from that knowlede compared to the national image the rest of us were given. Unfortunately, we cannot contrast the two.
The statement that you made about losing fans shoudn't concern you. I think you're a passionate writer and goal oriented and most of your fans will see the same.
Thanks, I understand why people get frustrated with their options for leadership. The media is absolutely unbelieveable with the spinning (and both sides do it!) and this really hurts the voter's ability to choose. If anything, the voters should be outraged at the type of coverage that is available. I know I am!
The solution? I hate to say it, but I have no idea. I don't think there is a solution, really. It's going to continue to get dirtier and dirtier as time goes on. Last year was really the first presidential election that started getting personal with candidate's family members (the v.p. candidate, at that!). What's to come in years ahead is truly disheartening.
Surely she shouldn't have wheeled the family out in the first place?
Does that apply to everyone? Should Obama be hiding his wife and children?
Not hiding, but personally I think it ill-advised to make them centre-stage.
I've never liked kids and campaigns, either. My friend managed a campaign for a congressional seat last year and I stopped by one of the events to catch up with him afterwards. I had to scold him after I heard him telling the candidate's wife to 'parade the kids in the background while he speaks'. Come on! If I had children, I wouldn't want my kids exposed like that. The wife, was not at all happy, either!
I don't think the problem comes from parading the family around. The problem comes when you parade the family to personify family values that are not in keeping with the politician's stance on those values.
I don't think most people think being cruel is ok, but saying one isn't impressed or doesn't think much of someone isn't being cruel. Neither is saying why one isn't impressed or doesn't think much of someone.
It's true that people in the public eye have people make up stuff about them, lie, and all that. Most people (if they knew the stuff is lies) would not think that's ok.
Who someone wants in public office, though, usually depends on whether voters think someone is worthy of holding that office. A lot of people know that any time someone new gets elected there will be "on-the-job training". They often worry more about who they think is worthy of being a position of trust and being given that on-the-job training. Things wouldn't be in the mess they're in if the public were better able to detect who is "worthy" (character-wise, intelligence-wise, common-sense-wise). Voters who are looking for what's in for them (and, of course, the corrupt) aren't always as picky about a candidate's character, intelligence, and level of common sense. Voters who are interested in what they believe is best for the country in general are.
Who someone is usually shows in what they do, what they say, what choices they've made for their family, etc. etc. Nobody is going to be liked by everyone, and if a lot of people don't like you they are going to say why they don't think you should be in office. It's part of the public discourse, and politicians (and other public figures) know it. Most normal people don't wish ill on someone like Sarah Palin or her family. Most don't think she's "evil". They just don't want her elected to high office. Because trying to judge someone's character, common sense, intelligence, and judgement are part of trying to determine whether they're worthy of the office, it gets nasty.
It's an American tradition for candidate's families to be out there at campaign rallies and what not. Maybe that will start to change, maybe that's the answer.
It's true, Obama did the same thing, but no backlash. I'm glad that those girls don't have to go through what the Palin kids did.
I hope their privacy remains constant throughout the next 4 or 8 years.
Kids, plural? The only thing I've seen about the others is that one has Down's Syndrome, and they all have ludicrous names.
The pregnant schoolgirl is relevant, politically, when her mother thinks "abstain from sex" education is the way to go.
I can assure you that a campaign affects the entire family. Most candidates have NO clue what it will do. I've seen it time and time again.
Again, I agree that kids and politics don't go well together. It's an American tradition and maybe it will eventually stop.
The thing is, political campaigns are typically run by men, young men who have no families and no experience with kids! My post above, where my friend wanted to 'parade kids around', is evident of the fact that most guys have no clue about kids. Yes, it is ultimately up to the candidate, but I can assure you that there is tons of pressure. It's unfortunate.
Personally, I'd like to see them leave the spouse at home as well. Anyone not actually running for office, stay home and carry on as normal a life as possible. And if the media then insists on bothering them, repeated, gratuitous tazering should follow.
The Blairs did parade their children around more than is usual for the UK. And there were more media stories about them - one getting drunk after his exams, that kind of thing.
Before and after Blair, children aren't waved around, and certainly not at party political conferences.
We see here people who say they respect and understand what girly_girl is trying to say, but in the next breath they are making fun of people's names and offering such deep political analysis as "she's an evil cheerleader" about people they've never met and know only through how they are portrayed in the 'media.' (oh, and "I've been really interested in politics since, like, high school, really" is NOT a qualification for anything).
As I predicted, the good and reasonable point of this thread has fallen on deaf ears. Just adding 'yeah, yeah girl, we like YOU' doesn't mitigate the same old superficial slander.
You really need to be more tolerant of other people's views, TK. And I detect a hint of ageism here, too. tsk tsk
I'd also point out that Andrew Sullivan, conservative, published in the Atlantic, 'said the names,' and denoted the resemblance to an 'evil cheerleader.' lol I wouldn't mind being editor of The Atlantic.
Hey, I said the names stuff (and they are ludicrous names) but none of the rest of it!
Who the hell are you to decide what someone should name their kids?
Who the hell are you to decide what London Girl should say? You are reverting to type.
How about you? Do you check your neighbor's names and decide which ones are 'correct' and which are 'ludicrous'?
Naw. Actually, my sisters' kids names are ludicrous, and closer at hand. Graff is OK. Grange borders on seriously ludicrous. Seriously.
You know you do have a problem, don't you? London Girl is very civil...
Really? Wow, thank you for letting me know. I know that you have been, like, interested in stuff since, like, high school and stuff, and your teachers in grade school liked your writing, and you have some degrees and, like, stuff, so your clinical analysis, like, totally means, like, a lot to me.
Let's face it, TK. I already know you make about $9/$10 per hour as a SAT/ACT instructor and have approximately a B.A. in Bus. Admin. at about a C/D student level.
Your level of discourse is fit for a sandbox. It consists of short evil little questions directed at attacking ANYONE for anything and full-on personal attacks. You have simultaneously attacked me for being too educated, too elitist, too interested in researching proper debating structure and logic...and now, by virtue of the use of one word you deem 'valley speak,' I take it, are attacking me for the opposite thing. You have attacked Darkside, Mark Knowles, Golden Toad, and now London Girl...and probably a number of other people I am unaware of.
I also know by this point, you are extremely unattractive (as you called someone else earlier this week) or upset with your marriage--or something else, a personal problem--that you would need to resort to these attacks on the internet.
Let me make this clear. I do not find this amusing. I do not find it cute. If you persist in this 'bullying,' expect what you received last night--where a number of people told you you have a problem--or expect to be reported. You are adding NOTHING of value here--unlike those interested in true debate of issues, politics, having fun, or any of a number of other ways people add value through their posts.
I expect you not to follow me or answer any other post that I make. I am not interested in further communication with you at any level. I hope that is understood. I'd recommend you seek help.
Find another girl to follow around and abuse verbally.
LOL!!! Too funny!
You are as entertaining as you are predictable. If you feel abused you are taking the whole 'forum' thing waaaaaay too seriously. Even if you are as sensitive (self absorbed) as you seem, you need to maintain a little perspective. Take a deep breath, you'll get over it.
As for your cute attempts at personal attack - very funny stuff.
I think she said that she thought them to be luidicrous,(names) which mean she would personally not obviously name, children with such names. She not say that she wants to decide to name them. You have got confused I think, This Forum has given me a headache I am going for the painkiller.
The only children I have a right to name are my own.
I reserve the right to point out that names such as "Trig", "Trip" and "Bristol" are ridiculous.
I reserve the right to point out that your transparently biased attitude is ridiculous.
I know this will open a can of worms, but it's a redneck thing. Technically the U.S. is a classless society but we all know that's a big lie. Palin is so low class. She reminds me of some of the girls I grew up with (I'm kinda low class myself) who would fight each other after school, like, you know, physical fights with hair pulling and razors so forth. Any disrespect or perceived disrespect must be countered with decimation of one's perceived opponent.
The woman's hoopie heritage shows every time she opens her mouth. Or names a kid.
"kinda" nothing. Your comments are very low class, and it has nothing to do with economic level.
its all just bloody attention distracting entertainment for u to discuss.
Comedians have been making pot shots at politicians and other celebrities since the beginning of history. Letterman has pointed out his joke was in poor taste, so I am not sure why people are putting so much stock on it. If I had a penny for every racial slur, misogynistic comment, and every other irreverent comment I have heard comedians make I would be a millionaire by now. I understand Palin's supporters are very distressed about what Letterman said, but would you feel this way if he said it about Biden or Obama's family. I am just curious. After all Palin did go on Saturday Night Life, which is notorious for their pot shots at most celebrities, but she did not get upset about the jokes made towards her and others there. If you find comedians offensive just do not listen to their shows, but I truly believe this Letterman thing has been blown way out of proportion.
If they were making derogatory comments about Obama's and Biden's kids, I'd be upset too. Personal attacks on Obama and Biden would be equally upsetting. There is no need for it.
For me, it's not even Letterman, it's the average American public. We've all been conditioned that it's ok to make fun of and disrespect people in the spotlight. It's like 3rd grade all over again or something. I guess it's just human nature.
Personally I do not condone making fun of others, but the best way to avoid it is to just ignore them. Of course I had a conservative hubber leave an irrate comment on my hub a few hours ago, just I just felt like expressing my opinion .
I understand. I'm getting tired of disrespectful, irate comments by both sides. What does it accomplish?
By being disrespectful to someone you are only making them that more satisfied. If someone is rude to me, I'm going to become even more set in my ways...why don't people get this?!? ahhhhhh! lol
I agree with you there girlygirl! I may not have voted for Palin myself, but I am tired of people making comments about her intelligence and the like. I never would dare to say anyone is lacking because everyone has their own form of intelligence, and no one really should be judging people that way. I simply did not think she was qualified for the job, but I am sure she is a good mother and nice person.
That's just it
I didn't think Obama was better qualified for the job, so I didn't vote for him. But, I never would've made all sorts of ill placed comments about him. He's not a terrible human being. He's not going to ruin our country. I respect him, he's my President. Because he was elected I didn't get to move to D.C. and start my career in the White House. That's ok, I get to go back to school and work on another area of my life.
I hope that many people in our country think like you, but sometimes I wonder if they do. It is so discouraging to read the news and hear comments espoused that sound like they're from high school.
But, alas, there is nothing that I can do about it. It's going to just keep getting worse so I'm going to have to learn to completely ignore it. It shouldn't affect me so much. It's just even tougher when kids are involved!
As I am reading your posts girlygirl I can tell you felt pain for her, so I can now see where you are coming from. You know thinking about it I probably would be upset if someone said something about my niece, but I guess I would just have to learn to ignore them. I probably should stay off this thread because honestly even reading these things makes me feel a little anxious.
I should probably stay away from the political threads, too. Nothing I can do or say to change people's opinions...I know that by now! I usually avoid this type of stuff but I guess I had some spare time to read and vent today lol.
Thanks for your comments.
It was interesting to hear your perspective though girlygirl. I appreciate that you were willing to share with us .
Apparently, Track was named because he was born in track season (as in the sport). His mother is said to be a dedicated runner. I guess I should have name my (non-adopted) kids, "Thanksgiving" and "New Year's", according to that reasoning - or else "Football 1" and "Football 2".
biased about what, and in what sense?
Are you actually suggesting these aren't very silly names?
Don't mind tk, he's of the opinion that other people shouldn't have opinions.
There is a trend here in the US to get away from traditional names. Parents here want to make their child unique and forget that it's not the name its their actions in life that make them unique.
If you are right, it is yet another resemblance of what happened in Russia when communists came to power...
Can you expand on that, I wasn't aware of this resemblance. I see it as parents wanting to emulate the success of celebrities with unique names, with the notion that giving their child a unique name they somehow have a better shot at being successful as well. Of course this is generally speaking and the uniqueness of some African-American names are made for entirely different reasons.
I don't think you're gonna hear LondonGirl, et. al. ridiculing those names.
Oh Misha is anything NOT another resemblance of what happened in Russiawhen communists came to power?
You see commies everywhere. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
I'm suggesting YOU are very silly for atttempting to disparage the names of someone's children because you don't like her politics. Why not go to Alaska and throw toilet paper at her house? You're at about that level.
Whatcha yapping about now? Did it not cross your mind that she doesn't like the names because... get this... she doesn't like the names?
Do you throw hissy fits in public when people have an opinion different than yours?
Do you want LondonGirl's home address so you can throw toilet paper at her house?
It's nothing to do with her politics. Whatever she believed in politically, I would still be of the opinion that naming children after a sport (Track), a type of maths homework (Trig), an oil rig disaster (Piper), and a nickname for breasts (Bristol) is a bit daft.
To be honest I found this topic amusing, when one puts themselves in the public eye they are fair game especially when its the taxpayer paying their wages. I have no sympathy at all for her and if things had have turned out well and McCain had have been elected she would have bathed in the glory. A bit like that other crying bitch Heather Mills, stuck her face all over the media and then turned on the tears that the press all hated her.
If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen !
You know guys, I'm really sorry I started this thread. This is really disheartening for someone like me. I wish it was closed, deleted even.
My purpose was to evoke a RESPECTFUL discussion, but folks are still resorting to name calling. Maybe it's just not possible, I don't know. Maybe it's just not possible here on HubPages.
I'm personally insulted that my original question of why people have such ill will and the entitlement of picking apart people in the spotlight quickly reverted to a name-calling, no facts based, ridiculous spew of rhetoric.
I'm 22 years old and don't act like this! What gives?!?! I may disagree with other political figure's policies, but I would never stoop to such a level, never. It's not personal. I'm not going to make ridiculous comments about someone just because I disagree with their policies. That's not how I was raised.
I am really disheartened by listening to grown-ups making such disrespectful comments that remind me of being back in high school or even college. Seriously, that is how ALL OF YOU sound.
I will not be participating in any political discussions again on here. I'm sure most of you will enjoy that, however.
You have nothing to feel sorry about, Girly-girl. You stated your opinion eloquently and I respect you for that. Others here (including myself) disagree with some of the thoughts concerning public figures and in particular, Sarah Palin, and have stated their opinion as well, which is fine.
This is not at issue.
What is going on here has to do with a troll stirring up personal attacks beyond politics and trying to get a rise out of people.
I for one will not enjoy losing another smart person on the forums, Girly! (But I am fast thinking of joining you.)
Well that wouldn't be good. Both of you add something to the quality of the discussion. We know who the trolls are and when we point them out or fuel their discussion, we take away the value of the original discussion. It's hard, but say ignore and do not respond to such trolling tactics.
It's probably a good thing that you "retired" from politics then. You have to be "thick skinned" in order to have any measure of success in this field. Name calling, and mud slinging is all part of the equation. I'm not saying it's a good thing, it is what it is.
Robert Harris wrote a book called Imperium about the "first politician" this is an excerpt:
The Roman orator Marcus Tullius Cicero is one of those curious historical figures of whom almost everyone has heard, yet almost no one can tell you anything about. At first glance this is not surprising. He was hardly a hero, certainly not in the conventional sense. He hated soldiering and was regularly accused of cowardice: he was too squeamish even to enjoy the deaths of the wild beasts in the games. He was prone to attacks of panic. He was an unromantic, workaholic prude married to a nagging wife. He could be devastatingly rude, both to the faces of his enemies and in catty remarks behind the backs of his so-called friends.
Yet Cicero still rose to the consulship, Rome's highest office, in 64 B.C. and was the constant opposition to Julius Cesar.
So, your supposition that the disrespect will not end here on HP is probably correct since it's been going on since the beginning of Politics.
Having said that, girlygirl, I wouldn't be so quick to give up on the discussion unless politics just isn't in your blood anymore. Politics and Religion are the source of most controversy on any public forum so if your going to participate in them you have to be ready when we, as Pam stated earlier,"opne a can of worms."
I think you should not take notice, of this person, he is just causing trouble, they will close anyway, if he go to far. So please do not take any of to heart.
I know it is a difficult pill to swallow. People sometimes do get carried away from discussing issues to getting personal. And ad hominem isn't a good way to begin a conversation(unless initiating arguments was the motive in the first place). I also hope we all can disagree agreeably as far as possible.
Btw about politicians I feel people do have a certain right(within limits) to question: Who they are?(Personality) and What they do?(Issues). I know it isn't fair but that is just the way it is and sooner we learn to accept it the better for us to adjust to it. Have a good day.
tksensei is a troll. You people should ignore him. He is called kusojiji on other forums.
http://yellowworld.org/forums/showthrea … amp;page=9
Originally Posted by PM from kusojiji
To summarize, yes I would say whatever you like to your face although if you are half the asswipe in real life that you are here your face would be implanted in the concrete before we really got to talking.
tksensei is not a nice person.
It's always interesting to go away from a Forum thread for awhile (even a few hours) and come back to see what's been said in one's absense.
Girly-Girl, I, too, hope you don't retire from Forum participation. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's. The fact that you posted a topic that got others so engaged is great! But as stated above (or below?) Politics and Religion are subjects that lend themselves to heated, sometimes uncivil debate.
A thought: If you are disenchanted by the "thread monster" your topic has created, next time write your piece as a Hub. That gives you somewhat more control over accepting or rejecting comments and commenting on others' comments.
Truly, you have too much to offer these pages to give up and withdraw your participation. MM
More quotes from yellowworld
Originally Posted by PM from kusojiji
Oh, you're not asking for an apology? How big of you! Who the fuck do you think you are, you little turd?
Originally Posted by PM from kusojiji
Do you have a legitimate mental disability?
Don't you have enough problems with your emotional instability, sexist attitude, and risible anger management issues over there?
Are you just frustrated that folks are starting to ignore you over there?
Or do you love me too much to wait for some attention?
Originally Posted by PM from kusojiji who is TKsensei:
Oh, you're not asking for an apology? How big of you! Who the fuck do you think you are, you little turd?
It's a forum. Some people come for the "serious discussion" or debate. Some are here to make trouble. Some don't know the difference between "legitimate debate" and off-the-wall attacking people. There will always be those, too, who just throw in a joke. That's how it goes, and it isn't a big deal. It may be unfortunate for for someone who hopes to have a "legitimate debate", but it isn't anything for anyone to feel bad about.
girly_girl09, you mentioned your age versus the age of others on here. Maybe one thing about having a few more years under the belt is that one learns not to take these things as seriously. Life has a way of kicking people in the head over the years, so by the time one gets 20 or so years past 22 he has learned to have a sense of humor about the small stuff, and has learned what truly matters. This isn't meant to be put down of someone your age. You brought up your age and ours. This is only meant to point out that sometimes it is increased maturity that makes people realize an Internet forum is nothing to spin one's wheels over. Whatever goes on one day, and whoever has a little fun on here, is gone; and everyone's on to the next thing tomorrow. Some people knit. Some watch tv. Some do forums.
People aren't going to melt if some clown attacks them. They're going "let him have it". Contrary to melting, there can be a little thrill in putting some attacking idiot in his place. In other words, a little nasty back-and-forth isn't a terrible thing. I'm not a fan of the nastiness, but, again, it's not a big deal.
At 22 years old you are young, but you are a grown up. It is perhaps because people on here give you credit for being a grown up that they feel free to do with your post what they do with so many other political, religion, and other posts. I, personally, have generally stayed away from the politics and religion forum because they can be aggravating, no matter what one's views are. Still, no matter what goes on on any forum, it just isn't anything for anyone to spin his wheels over, or feel bad about. "Grown-ups", as you call forum participants, know what's important in life and what just isn't. A little bit of sense-of-humor and a few grains of salt are what life teaches most of us we need.
What a comedy thread - the insidious troll is exposed, and as a comically inept one at that. Physically threatening people by email....sheer quality.
Must remember to bookmark this thread, for future reference.
Girly_Girl: Don't be too disheartened - most of the debate was civil. Whilst we differ in many of our political views, I respect your keen mind and debating skills. You will be a loss to the forums, if you leave
To think that I almost went out to the taverna tonight - I would have missed out on all of the fun.
Nice try - I followed the link. Whilst I may not be the most internet savvy person, I know what a personal mail is. Basically, you physically threatened somebody by email
From your profile, I would guess that you are a middle aged man - such behaviour from one who pretends to be so wise. With some glee, as you can imagine, I read the entire thread - it seems that he is not the only headcase
A thousand smileys could not convey how much I am enjoying this. The definition of a troll is somebody who tries to elicit an emotional response: You have one.........laughter.
As I sit here with a very large Ouzo, chuckling, I look forward to things becoming even funnier. I invited GoldenToad over here, and he is going to laugh even more than me
I guess you really aren't too savvy, and don't read too well. I threatened no one, I responded to threats. Those were private messages in response to what you wouldn't believe: the most angry, violent, vulgar products of a damaged mind. But I understand your need to make a show of giggling like a child in line with your obvious motivations.
You are really very, very good at this. I am impressed. I do not think I have previously met a professional troll before. I mean - we have people so annoyed with your inane commentary coming from other forums to tell us what a dick you are. That is impressive on its own. Thankfully, you will find yourself banned from here before much longer.
Lets see - I make a good living as an academic writer and ESL examiner, so I guess that means that I have some savvy and can read perfectly well.
I have been browsing that site a little more - seems that you would would know a lot about angry, violent, vulgar products of a damaged mind.
I am enjoying this - I may be giggling like a child, but at least I am not childish enough to physically threaten people by email.
Looks like your past caught up with you - you are a busted flush. Even now you try to go on the offensive but, frankly, you ARE offensive
EDIT: Mr Knowles - What time does Darkside wake up - he is going to enjoy this, too
Not sure - we usually miss each other so probably a few hours yet. I long since ceased to be amused with this one and have started reporting it.
I'd be curious if TK's family--wife and child--know about his internet activities--and if they did (as I'm sure they do not), what they'd think of his 'impressive' actions.
I am going with imaginary wife and child, along with the imaginary self title "sensei." People like him/her/it do not have a real life.
Doubt he's a writer either, frankly. It takes work to make it freelancing. His stuff isn't up to par--just a professional opinion.
As another professional writer, I would concur.
LOL! And there's more of your M.O. You're kind of pleased with yourself, aren't you? I notice you fishing for compliments pretty often.
"Do you know how many degrees I have?"
"My grade school teachers liked my writing!"
"I read newspapers and watch TV!"
Compliments you pay yourself aren't worth much, I'm sorry to tell you.
Hey, I'm not trolling internet forums, swearing at people and threatening bodily harm. And I know you're jealous--but that it would be easy to be jealous of anybody--being you.
Sorry. But your writing ISN'T very good. That's the truth.
LOL! There we go! You don't even bother to deny your need to compliment yourself as you demonstrate further your trend toward personal attack. Looking back, I don't think you'll enjoy seeing how you are conducting yourself now.
Wrong. I'm not that 'nice' a girl. I've learned how to bite back at morons, bullies, a plain-straight idiots.
You do see how many people here are p*ssed and doing the same thing, right? Or are you that delusional?
LOL! I'm pretty sure you don't employ that flawed logic to other topics!
I'm pretty sure true trash needs to be taken out before it putrefies everything it comes in contact with.
Since those were entirely your words, I thought I'd fix that quote for you.
You really are very good at this. I suspect this is your only education. Did you mummy really treat you that badly? I am so sorry. In fact - I kind of feel bad for reporting you now.
Oh well, your account will be deleted by Monday so - ciao.
Damn Mark these people are fun, why report them they are entertainment !
This one is cluttering up the forums. And it has been following me around for weeks.
And me, too. And I was friendly to the moron to begin with.
I know and my friend GT but you have to laugh at their total ignorance.
The Writer of this Forum, is disinterested. He may as well have posted. It is his now!
Yep. Your grade-school education has served you well, I see.
YES. 'Mirroring' is actually what you do with an abuser. Look it up, Einstein. Simple psychology... But obviously you missed that class. Oh, wait. You missed much high school all together...that's right.
And personal attack after personal attack. Is that what you have been reduced to?
I don't have to seek 'attention' or validation from trash.
Just for the record, that was ANOTHER personal attack, right?
Yes!! Did you read my paragraph on 'mirroring?' As explanation? OH, missed that? You are just a POS Hyena Dung Beetle. Man! That was freeing! It felt good.
You complimenting them with that grammar, pre school more like !
I am sure she will - on a long, cold, winters night, she will look back at this thread, and feel a fuzzy warmth.
As to your plea for mercy because of the personal attacks: You dished it out to some of the nicest and most inoffensive Hubbers. Picking on Countrywomen crossed the line - no quarter will be given.
I thought you said you were able to read well. I don't recall any such plea. Please continue to dig, if you must.
Looks like you have some serious difficulty reading. Maybe your memory is deficient. Who knows?
Semantics and sophistry, TK. Very weak.
I know. No such plea has been made, only observation.
Splitting semantic hairs again, TK - the beauty of the internet is that your sophistry is in plain view.
'Sophistry' is possibly to sophisticated of a word for him, Sufi.
It's not semantics to point out that you are fabricating statements that were never made.
Truth be told you are basically a twat, why not do the decent thing and delete yerself.
Awwwwwwwwwwwww poor you, move close to yer screen so I can pat ya, thats a good doggy, isnt life ruff , ruff !
Lol see nyliram turning sides, you need to relook there Sufi my friend !
he is trying to get you and Lita in trouble ignore him Pahleeze. When I come on here it was part of a thesis....... I can read him like a book, I think it has come to the end, and still we are none the wiser, what exactly the Book was about.
But it is semantics to deny statements that were made. Again, TK, look back through the posts, because I cannot be arsed to quote. You were a little upset because we were all ganging up on you
My infamous cat could see through your weak fallacies. Face it, TK, you are not as smart as you think you are
Even as I write this, you are complaining about the personal attacks. Sometimes, it is good to stop digging, TK
Not complaining, just observing for the record. Do carry on if you like.
All you do is complain, yer worse than my ex !
We do not know what has caused his anger and hhis pain so we must be benevolent.
One second I will get a tin for a collection, get a life !
Read Lita and appreciated but no way can I sit back and watch this !
There we go with more personal attacks. That seems to be your thing.
Trying to get personal again? You seem to have a real capacity for nastiness. Keep an eye on that.
Agreed - I write and edit for a living, and he/she/its work does not make the grade.
If I am bored, I go for a drink with my friends. I simply cannot understand the appeal of trolling.
Well, I certainly spend too much time on the forums when I am bored, because I spend all day online, but I only go out of my way to antagonize certain cult members. Can't understand why anyone would do what he/she/it is doing though. Perhaps locked away somewhere and allowed a certain amount of computer time. Who can tell?
Who you consider all religious people, right bigot?
Now you begin to annoy, even me, this remark is rude. The man is not a Bigot (I had to look up words meaning admittedly, ) He has an opinion, I am Islamic, he is an Atheist, if it is O.K. for a Islamic person to say fine, then you should as well.
Peace be with you.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
According to many, many comments of his he regards or treats the members of a group (specifically those adhering to any established religion) with hatred and intolerance.
Guess what that's called?
You realize you are SO banned, don't you? I don't know how many have had complaints about you by now.
LOL! Yes, having three or four people attacking me personally must be a serious offense! It's interesting to see the pack mentality emerge.
Kinda ironic for a pack dog Avatar doncha think. Nice to see yer grammar improving though.
Spelling not offence not offense. You may not thank me tksensei. I love you doggy peace be yours.
Maybe he isn't getting any action. I would be pissed, too
Keep going, you're almost at 'booger joke' level.
I'm sure of what you said, Sufi. A woman can tell these things.
So can men
Did I tell you that joke about the booger........
Cut and paste, but......
I was walking in the park when I saw my friend and her 5 yr old son sitting on a bench. I walked over to them and the 5 year old started pointing at me, I said, “if you keep pointing I'll eat your fingers." He kept pointing, so I stuck his fingers in my mouth and pretended to eat them. He then started crying. I looked at him and said don't worry I'm not really gonna eat your fingers. He replied, "I know that but where’s my booger?"
How have you been, nyrilam? Good to see you around again
I have been good sufi I have been living live of How they say "Riley" This person, is so rude, I cannot believe that they are letting him go on.
How is it in Greece????? Auckland, very cold. Reading Q'ran, but find it not as easy to do, when Western distractions come up. Allah will still love me (Hopes) Do you think this Forum may be Hi-jacked, my people very good at that!!!!!!!!!
nyrilam is my friend - I will vouch for her
Yes--I can see. I was appealing to BC...sorry if it came across wrong. Mango was in reference to TK.
No way is this person in Mangos league, Mango has class, this is a fool and I am here Lita !
Do you mean me I will go away, it just my English bad.
See you all next time.
No, nyliram! You are very fine. Please stay. Unless you don't want to witness our trash compacting.
Might not be pretty!
thank you I was very worried. He is very bad.
Good to hear that you are doing well. I am sure that Allah loves you - your heart is honest and without malice.
So, we have the group affirmation and the personal attack. How exciting!
I for one, definitely intend to, it was nice to talk to all the others, but you, tksensei, must seek counselling, for your anger management. I agree Mark do not report him he is the light entertainment, besides he will return as what a Wolf Hyena???????????????
'Hyena' is a very vivid metaphor, nyliram! Excellent.
Good luck with the ignoring.
????????? Not angry...
I already told him, in all good faith, to seek counseling for his obvious issues.
Ya know wat I really can't, Me being me sorry but you attack Lita I can't just sit back ya know !
Holy @#$#@*&^^^ batman. We've come a long way from talking about smoking dope, masturbating, and eating chocolate!
Oh Captain calm down, the Doctor warned you to stay calm !
Gods but this thread is messy.
And I'm not just talkiing about the current topic.
The page loads all over the damn place.
And BC - settle petal
Sorry but I wont settle ok and although I have been banned before I can't sit back and watch someone abuse a friend. I think hubs will see that and to be honest this fool should have been kicked off the site ages ago.
That's why I love you, BC - I have your back, too
EDIT: Too many inoffensive hubbers abused - sometimes, you have to make a stand.
Cheers Sufi its just not Lita this tosser has been also winding up GT as well and I am sorry I have been silent on the forums but GT can put up with this fool, Lita is a really nice lady and doesnt need this crap so I had to say my moneys worth !
If you were to try I guess you could make your point without the personal attacks.
Weak, TK - the nasty one liners did not work, so now you adopt a more conciliatory and flattering tone. Not going to work, old boy - you burned your bridges a long while back
I agree they are fast to kick others off, but this is what he wants, He is not a dog, but is a really gross person, he has in in for lita, and its not even his thread. I think in the morning, it will be apparent, because this will be closed to reply, and he will be gone. Off to the vets.
I too have your back, and am behind his. We are supporting Lita not him.
You are a troublemaker, I have reported you not just to Hub Pages but to Cyber Bullying,The International Department. You have ceased to become light entertinment.
That reminds me of the lady who called 911 because she didn't get enough chicken McNuggets.
I don't eat Chicken, I don't know what a McNugget is and I don't think calling 911 in Aucklnad new Zealand makes any sense. Is this a joke. If so not very good one.
You will find I have complained, and given all the details, plus past activity same. You seem to aim for certain people maybe that is your doggy instincts no?
No worries, BC - in nine months here, I have tried not to become personal. He crossed the line - Lita does not deserve his facile crap.
nyrilam - thanks - I always knew that you had a kind heart.
I agree and am no longer replying but like you I couldnt sit back and watch Lita get that crap, enjoy the rest of yer weekend mate !
You too - 2am here, so bedtime is not far off. I will try to set up a football thread tomorrow, and don't forget the Confederations Cup kicks off! A timely football fix
I was actually thinking for next season setting up a hubs fantasy football league. I will set it up and get the password code and link, be a good laugh !
It's not just me, BC. Tho I grow very tired of it--never experienced it before.
It is Mark Knowles, Darkside, London Girl, Golden Toad, Bgmall, and countless others. (Those are the one's I've witnessed.) Sufi also says CW--which is just ridiculous. She's the most inoffensive person.
I know Lita but Mark, Dark and the Toad can deal with the twat, I hate watching a woman being insulted hence I got involved but just ignore the attention seeking twat and this topic will just vanish. Enjoy yer might Lita and just ignore this thread as its just become food to a a fool !
Sufi- Was that CW mention about me? Well TKS did try to intervene since I was trying to defend US(and Obama just happens to be the President now) with respect to Mr.Usman Ali's gross misconception about US (and so many other things) and then TKS tried to have an issue with that.
Lita- Thanks for the compliment. And this thread sure has gone on to multiple pages and I just read couple of pages. You folks sure stay active even on weekends.
PS: Just returned from checking out houses nearby and now tired taking rest.
Well you were trying to discredit my viewpoint in the conversation with Mr.Usman in that thread. When in fact it was Mr.Usman who first said that US President Obama is Pro Israel even now(after the recent summit). And based on the BBC news that I watch regularly I was trying to show him that his perspective about US(being evil/anti Muslim) is incorrect/false. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/15421?page=11
I don't know about your conversation with whomever, but the president IS pro Israel. Israel is an important ally and he's said so himself many times. That doesn't mean he isn't interested in the plight of the Palestinians as well, of course.
Please go through the link that I inserted for your convenience. And my whole point was Mr.Obama now appears to have gained some credibility with the Muslim world after the recent summit speech and also that US neither was or is Anti Muslim(as perceived by him and some others). If you prefer to pick and choose selectively a few words without understanding the whole context then it isn't appropriate to intervene when I am trying to remove some misconceptions Mr.Usman has. Anyway peace my friend. Have a good day.
Bravo my captain and we hate dogs anyway, well ones like that !
Make that 3 if you insult my Captain you dog ugly person !
How have you been, CabinGirl? I hope that the world is making sense to you.
Why would you, yer the dog and I am the human you just gotta know your place you know, be a good dog and learn to bark only when you are asked. You follow or is that too complicated for you ?
You probably meant that as a joke and not a personal attack.
Awwwwwww I guess the doggy is in the kennel, maybe just as well as the Cabin Girl has both barrels loaded and ready for ya !
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