When doing keyword research...

1. 66

   darksideposted 14 years ago

   ...for those who live and die by the CPC...
   
   ...do you have a minimum amount for Estimated Average CPC? ie: You won't consider trying to aim for anything under a certain amount.
   
   And a minimum Search Volume?
   
   I'm using the Google Keyword Tool to do my searches.

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      Neil Ashworthposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I would go for CPC of over $1.50 if possible with minimum daily search of 50 searches per day - if I can on longtail keywords

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   fayansposted 14 years ago

   Personally I'd not go lower than $1 in CPC AND 1000 in search volumes.
   
   But I do have my own formula when it comes to choosing the keyword(s) to target. Unfortunately, I prefer to discuss it in private.

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      darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Is the 1000 search volume per day or per month?

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         CabinGirlposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Would have to be month, 30,000 would be way too high.

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            darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I've just done a keyword search for deodorant and chainsaw and they're showing 1,220,000 and 1,500,000 searches per month each.

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               badcompany99posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I wish you luck hitting the front page with either !
               
               My meaning was 30,000 would be too high for me to tackle for hitting a high ranking on google !

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                  darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I'll give deodorant a go. Not saying I can, but we'll see how well I go.

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                     badcompany99posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Well I will deff read it, for sure it won't be a stinker lol !

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               fayansposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               CabinGirl is right! 1000 per month is the least I'd go but with an exception of certain keyword(s) I'll write a hub for.
               
               By the way, DS, the figure you're looking at is not an accurate representation of search volume based on that specific keyword deodorant because you're using *broad* match. The actual figure (*exact* match) is 90,500 - still a good # though.
               
               Anyway, I'm surprised the competition is very low for deodorant so go for it, DS.

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                  BrianSposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I think it is a little more complex than CPC value, you have the broad, phrase and exact options. You should also consider where the keyword competition is i.e. is it in the text or in the title and how much traffic you are likely to get on a topic.
                  
                  Its a bit like trying to sell a Rolls Royce to get a multi-thousand doller payout where you are happy to see 1 or 2 a month versus selling biros where you may get a few pence but with all the volume it ends up being a pretty penny. Be interesting to know who makes the most profit, Rolls Royce motors or BIC!!!

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                     darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     On the face of it the Rolls Royce dealer is the one with the expensive lifestyle while the pen salesman is the one struggling to make ends meet!
                     
                     Though I've given a very broad and extremely open to be flawed generalisation there!
                     
                     But your analogy is an offshoot of what I'm thinking. If there's little traffic, but big bucks it could be worth checking out. If it's little money but a lot of traffic, then it's also worthwhile.
                     
                     I'm trying to avoid the combination of the little traffic and little money.

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                        BrianSposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Definitely need to avoid little traffic and little money, I probably didn't quote the best example maybe I should have compared Parker Pens to BIC biros, but I think the point got across anyway.

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                  darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I need to find out more about this "broad match" business. I would have thought that a single keyword search would be an exact match. I've got some homework to do.

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      Neil Ashworthposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Why are you in the knowledge exchange forum then? LOL!

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         fayansposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         To answer the question posed by DS.
         
         Beyond that, I prefer to discuss it in private. Simple enough!

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            Neil Ashworthposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Each to their own I guess..

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               fayansposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You're absolutely right this time, Neil! Good to know you anyhow.

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                  Neil Ashworthposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL! You Too!

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3. 65

   Silver Roseposted 14 years ago

   Darkside
   
   I use a minimum of $1 CPC.
   
   As for traffic - I find that the Google Keywords tool isn't that accurate.
   
   Try using another Google tool:
   
   http://google.com/sktool/#
   
   You don't need to sign in, just type in your phrase/words. It brings up a whole bunch of keywords with monthly search, and you can click the magnifying glass icon and go straight through to Google Insights for search to see where the traffic comes from (as in which country).
   
   The country info is very important - sometimes what seems like a good keyword gets all it's traffic from Croatia (where they probably don't have enough advertisers to bid more than a few cents).
   
   I find it interesting that two Google tools show different figures for search, with the tool listed above consistently showing lower numbers than the Keywords tool - but all these tools are estimates. Google would never divulge the true accurate data. Therefore use both to arrive at a sort of rule of thumb about traffic.
   
   Even the CPC data isn't quite accurate - Google charges advertisers based on how relevant their landing page is - the more relevant the less they pay. Advertisers are now cottoning on and improving their sites to drive down their costs. Plus the whole CPC thing is based on a dynamic auction which depends on how many advertisers are bidding at a given moment, which in turn depends on their advertising budgets and time of year (I would think bidding rises towards Christmas).
   
   From my experiments, this is all a very uncertain business, and the only thing you can do to protect yourself is to have a lot of different niches. And you can only do that by simple experimentation, and sometimes just going with your gut or focusing on your interests. Those who focus on just a few niches leave themselves vulnerable to their keyword price dropping due to changes in the economy/fashion.
   
   Hope this helps.

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      darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm going to have to take to that with a knife and fork!

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   soni2006posted 14 years ago

   Thanks for the sktool Silver Rose.

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   frogdroppingposted 14 years ago

   I'm with fayans (generally) but I also found out accidentally that less than $1 can actually generate more than you'd suppose - more so if the search volume (per month) is high.
   
   It's a very weird science.

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      BristolBoyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It is a very weird science.  Initially I just wrote about what I liked but now I tend to target my keywords more.  However, I always tend to strike a balance.  I would generally not go below 75p (I'm in the UK) but it also depends on the number of searches.

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         frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I've also discovered that some keywords, despite the high competition, are actually poorly served and therefore despite the stats or whatever  - high competition + popular keyword = poor return (for e.g.) - they can be more than worth using.

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   Pacal Votanposted 14 years ago

   Does anyone use PPC Web Spy? What's your opinion?

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   frogdroppingposted 14 years ago

   To be fair, the competiton is poor BC. Now go write about body odour

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      badcompany99posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What ??

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         frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Have you got your head on BC? I was meaning that what's on the first page or two for deodorant isn't great. Deodorant - body odour? Get it

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   badcompany99posted 14 years ago

   Of course I do, I ain't stupid but why would I write about body odour. I am just replying to a thread on keyword research and pointing out what I go for. I would never go for a word that is above 8,000.
   
   Like I know there are words out there over a million, someone been spreading rumours that I have been in a coma ?

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      frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't happen to think you're stupid. Nor have I heard runmours that you're in a coma. But fine BC, take what I said as you will.
      
      @ Darkside - I should think you'll manage it.

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         badcompany99posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I misunderstood you, head deff not on. Methinks I am in a coma and deff am getting rusty. Accept my apology oh green one as I realise you were being helpful !

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            frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Apology accepted, of course.
            
            Darkside - seriously, some of the competition is wasted on that keyword, so I don't see why you can't hit the mark. And though you were asking BC (about CPC), I've gone for less, because I know a lot about the subject, and it's paid off. And I imagine will pay off more and more in time.

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               darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I'm thinking the hub will discuss both sweat (perspiration) and deodorant.

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         darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I'll be coming out with both guns blazing so everyone better have their hands up in the air (even if they have B.O.)

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      darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's only 266 a day searching for that keyword.
      
      1000 search volume is only 33 per day searching for that keyword. Not many people at all. That's a very small audience.
      
      I'm doing a bit of a juggling act, and I don't target a high paying keyword just because there's a lure of big money, it's got to interest me. I've written plenty that will have a very small audience, just because I really dig the topic. But then I wouldn't be specifically targeting a very small niche because I expected there'd be very little competition, with a chance of only 1 or 2 people an hour in the whole world searching for that information (that may sound contradictory, but what I'm saying is, if I'm doing it purely for love, it doesn't matter how little traffic or Adsense $ is involved, but if I'm doing it for a chance for money I won't hunting wallabies when I could be bagging kangaroos. I'm currently researching a topic and gathering information on something that I've just now had a look at with the keyword search tool, 1,900 searches a month and $0.64 average CPC. But I'd not recommend that to anyone who's wanting to make money).
      
      What sort of average CPC would you have as the lower limit?

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   Dame Scribeposted 14 years ago

   It will be your usual masterpiece DS I'll try get everybody keep da noise down lol

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      darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      From one DS to another DS, thank you

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    badcompany99posted 14 years ago

    I am happy enough with a cpc of about 30 cents and to be honest I would be happy as well if all my hubs were attracting 33 reads a day but perhaps my sights are set too low.
    
    Deff learnt something from your posts though and might just change the way I think, cheers for that !

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       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Don't take this in the wrong way, but I do think you're aiming too low. Though not as bad as those who target 0 search terms and are justifying it by saying that one day it might be a hot topic!
       
       33 people searching a day won't guarantee all 33 will click through. And a 5% CTR on the ad itself x the low average CPC means it's just crumbs.
       
       Trust me, I've spent a looooong time just writing what I enjoy writing about. And in all honesty, it's not a bad thing to do. It's made me money in the past. But there's a thread by Ryan in the 30 Day Hub Challenge called HubPages Tips: Using keyword research to make a good Hub great! which is worth reading a few times over. I had the opportunity a little while back to see a similar video which was a real eye opener. It's like getting a high powered scope for a rifle, and getting taught how to use it properly.
       
       Someone recently in the forum mentioned about their hub getting good search traffic for the term jet ski. Which is excellent. I did the research and found that jet ski insurance is only getting 4,400 searches a month, but the Estimated Average CPC is $11.50.
       
       Now that's only about 150 a day, but the Average CPC being  $11.50 means it's a damn good keyword to target.
       
       I personally wouldn't target it. I have little experience with jet ski's. If I did have an interest or wanted to do it justice, I'd avoid searching for the information online and ring up insurance companies and find out from them what they've got on offer and any other bits of information they have. And use that as the basis for my hub.
       
       I pretty much have my hubs in two baskets: That which I HAVE to write about, and I don't care about the money (none of my How To Hub hubs have Adsense on them) and that which I WANT to write about... and there's a lot of them, so I'm weighing up which ones are going to be more profitable. If it's going to be low on the search volume and CPC then I'll toss it back like an undersize fish.
       
       At the moment I don't have any firm criteria for what my minimum is on both counts. I'm interested in what others have as theirs to learn a thing or two.

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    badcompany99posted 14 years ago

    You are an inspiration DS not only to myself but newbies reading this. Deff going to take this on board and give that link of Ryans a read. Maybe it's about time I actually discarded the alter-ego crap and actually made a go at earning  proper money on here.
    
    Deff some sound stats there and I am deff into stats. I am deff going to reinvent myself. Made me think DS, not many people get that far inside me head

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    Dame Scribeposted 14 years ago

    My keyword search starts with the heading then I look at the most to least popular and then think of subcategories n do another search. dunno if that gives you any ideas.

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       badcompany99posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Oh deff the Title is the most important thing and deff can make a big difference as to whether you get on the google front page and I have changed a few a couple of times to achieve that !

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    JamesCurtisposted 14 years ago

    Actual CPC can be miles off of the estimate. If you run ads with a good CTR and a quality landing page you can pay way less. I have run ads with an estimated CPC of £2 + where we only ended up paying 22p.

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    livewithrichardposted 14 years ago

    Personally, I choose CPC at $1 or more and Search Volume over 2000 per month and under 30,000.  Some will say that is too high but you have to look at those little green bars to see how heavy the competition is, then go do a search on Google for that keyword or phrase.
    
    In your jet ski insurance example, there are over 940,000 hits but for the exact phrase in quotations there are only 19,400.  I wouldn't let that 940,000 scare me if all the other numbers were good.  It is safe to assume that a good percentage of those hits have little or no SEO and the strength you get from HP site authority will give you an even better chance at ranking high if the hub is quality.
    
    Also, there are some things that I will write about that have less than $1 CPC but on those articles I'm targeting Amazon or Ebay sales and not adsense revenue.  So, my suggestion would be to make out a plan before you write on whether you want to target Adsense or other affiliate sales.
    
    Just wanted to add that in that jet ski example, 6 out of the top 10 on google had the term jet ski insurance in the URL so that should tell you something also.

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    sunforgedposted 14 years ago

    * removed, as i dont feel like fixing all my embarrassing typos*

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    Dame Scribeposted 14 years ago

    We are always in state of learning and improving upon that which we have learned n is fun when we share n learn from eachother. Kinda reminds me of homework sessions with friends back in 1867 when I was a kid. (sigh) lol

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    I*n*v*i*c*t*u*sposted 14 years ago

    I'd just like to thank everyone for these posts. I am slowly learning and think it is wonderful for minds to open in helping each other out. Thank you.. I read a lot of these posts and find them very helpful!

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    arvind webmasterposted 14 years ago

    I would like to suggest to follow these steps:
    
    1. Seed keywords: you just need to go through the related services/products and try to get basic keywords(not the key phrases).
    
    2. Building key phrases and secondary keywords: i would like to suggest to use keywords tools. they can help you in getting right keyword phrase and its different format of it(or you can say all the synonymous and other stuff comes into this section.)
    Some of favorite tools are as follows:
    
    Google keyword tool
    Google search based keyword tool
    Google Insights
    Google trends
    Word tracker
    (I will always prefer free one)
    
    3. Fine tuning of Keywords:
    Manual search comes in picture now. You can fine tune the keywords according to the targeted audience,geographical regions and of course your own limit.

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       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The question was: Do you have a minimum amount for Estimated Average CPC? And a minimum Search Volume?

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