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Clarification on Forum Rules & Policies

  1. Maddie Ruud profile image83
    Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago

    There's been a lot of discussion of forum rules and policies recently, as well as criticism of the HubPages staff, so Paul and I agreed that a thread reiterating our position was in order.

    The rules are very clear:
    No personal attacks in the forums.  Substantive debate and differences of opinion are okay.  Name-calling, insults, threats, and passive-aggressive references to other users with whom you disagree are not.

    Generally, HubPages likes to take a hands-off approach to moderation.  We prefer not to get involved, wherever possible, and allow users to work out their own differences of opinion.  We only step in where clear spam or personal attacks are involved.  However, some users have expressed dissatisfaction with our supposed lack of action in certain instances.

    In light of this, I hereby clarify our new policy:
    Any personal attacks that are reported will result in a 3-day forum ban of the offending user.  Repeated offences will result in a permanent forum ban.  No exceptions for users "in good standing."  No special considerations for context or provocation.  (Paul's own father is currently serving a 3-day ban.)



    Please note that moderating the forums is a very small portion of the work that needs to be done here at HubPages to keep the site running smoothly.  Even if it is where you spend most of your time on the site, it cannot be where I or Paul spend most of ours.

    I hope this satisfies everyone's concerns.

    1. Ryan Hupfer profile image78
      Ryan Hupferposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      ...and the Maddie has spoken. smile

      (gotta love her, eh?)

      1. profile image61
        BadCoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I so wish that was a command smile

        1. yoshi97 profile image88
          yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Loving Maddie is an immutable law that is easy to follow. Every forum should have their own Maddie, but they CAN'T have ours! smile

    2. profile image0
      mdawson17posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thank You I can only hope this stops the all the personal attacks in the religious forums

      1. profile image0
        cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        smile hee hee good one. (and i know you didn't mean that in a humorous way)

    3. tobey100 profile image59
      tobey100posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Solomon couldn't have done better.

    4. Andrew0208 profile image60
      Andrew0208posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      This ugly issue of personal attacks and calling of names are very unhealthy anywhere. Thanks for the updates.

    5. profile image0
      Justine76posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol paul's father. thanks for the update!

  2. relache profile image87
    relacheposted 7 years ago

    That's nice and clear.  Thanks, Maddie and sorry people are slinging mud at you just for trying to keep the peace.

  3. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    LOL Cool. smile

    I think more precise definition of personal attack, etc. will help too - considering many participants are not American. smile

    1. profile image0
      Nelle Hoxieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Once they get their 3-day suspension of forum priveleges they'll figure it out.

  4. profile image0
    Nelle Hoxieposted 7 years ago

    More than fair Maddie.

  5. Colebabie profile image60
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Sounds fair to me smile

  6. profile image0
    ralwusposted 7 years ago

    Mind yer manner children. kewl! thanks Maddie. LOL Paul's Dad. hehe Someone got to him.

  7. VOICE of CHRIST profile image60
    VOICE of CHRISTposted 7 years ago

    Thank you Maddie - may you go in peace.

    Just to clarify - cutting and pasting 2,000 words and filling the forums up with huge long posts stolen from other writers promising pain and eternal damnation for not following GODS TRUE WORD, does not constitute a personall attack.

    But calling some one a f****** fruitcake does. wink

  8. Aya Katz profile image89
    Aya Katzposted 7 years ago

    Maddie, could you also clarify the policy with regard to suspected spam? I am thinking of the case of a newbie who started a thread on a topic similar to the topic of her one and only hub. The hub was not commercial, and she didn't post a link to it. Is this a clear-cut case of spam, and if so, when can the person expect to be reinstated?

    1. Maddie Ruud profile image83
      Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Aya, please send me an email.  I'm not clear on to whom you're referring.  Such things do not normally get you banned from the forums.

      1. Aya Katz profile image89
        Aya Katzposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Okay. I sent the email.

        1. Maddie Ruud profile image83
          Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Sorted and replied.

          1. Aya Katz profile image89
            Aya Katzposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Thanks, Maddie!

  9. Pearldiver profile image87
    Pearldiverposted 7 years ago

    (Paul's own father is currently serving a 3-day ban.)

    And What did Paul Learn about this?

    Is there an upcoming No2 hub on 'The Benefits of Elder Abuse?' lol

  10. RooBee profile image84
    RooBeeposted 7 years ago

    Thanks for this and for being a voice of reason here in these fiery forums!
    Some fantastic folks may disagree, but I think the HP staff is pretty great and have no complaints about the way things are handled around here.
    Thanks for all you do, and for the reminder. Sometimes, I think we treat each other differently in the online environment than we would if we were actually speaking to one another. It's important to remember that we're all people with something in common (we like to write) ..even the -gasp- staff! smile

    1. manlypoetryman profile image75
      manlypoetrymanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well Said!

  11. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    Dear Maddie, No name calling , period? I can't call someone a duck-butt, waddles the whale, a barnfart, cow flop, nose-picker, hairball, green hairball, road-kill or a naboob?(I don't actually know what a naboob is but I heard it here) Is there a list we can refer to and reference a number, like: You liberal #3 what the #7 is wrong with you #5!!!!! Maybe not?

    Thanks for the clarification. I wouldn't call someone a #2 that would be rude but a #8 maybe.

    1. profile image0
      Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      HAHA sneak you made me laugh....oh and yuo forgot one...you forgot meanie head my all time favorite lmao

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It was done in that spirit, you obviously have a great sense of humor to laugh at my non-sense!

        1. profile image0
          Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Ah thanks Sneak I do my best in seeing the funny in what people say. and yea I got yours hehehe

    2. profile image0
      cathinfranceposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You can call me a duck-butt if you want; I don't mind.  :-)

  12. profile image0
    Louidam1posted 7 years ago

    Sounds good to me...thanks Maddie!

  13. profile image0
    ralwusposted 7 years ago

    Are we allowed to flip the bird anymore? just a little one?

    1. Daniel Carter profile image91
      Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      [laughs out loud to self]
      So tempted to call you an incorrigible pest, ralwus, but shall refrain.
      I doubt your fingers are small enough to flip little ones. Do you have a chimp that you can train?


      Oh, and, thanks maddie. It's no fun to be a babysitter, and I get that. So I'll try to not be a problem that way.

      And for the record, if my sarcasm was pointed too directly at anyone here, I do apologize. I'm not here to arrive, deliver, or leave with any bad feelings. Just not my style.

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I know I've been hurt I could have damages, if you leave cookies I could probably recover and get over my limp.

    2. Daniel Carter profile image91
      Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Cruelty to animals, amigo.
      The best way to flip a bird is in the frying pan. Otherwise they're too hard to catch.

      Thanks for the clarification, Maddie and Paul.
      I'm glad that being incorrigible still won't get me banned.
      wink

    3. profile image0
      lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol lol lol

  14. Mrvoodoo profile image61
    Mrvoodooposted 7 years ago

    Just to clarify one point:

    Are we allowed to pointlessly post links to our own hubs if we think there's a really really good chance that we might get away with it? wink

    Personally I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, that would be just lovely. smile

    1. profile image0
      Pacal Votanposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I guess we aren't. But as long as there's a good chance you can walk, why spend your time caring about it? wink

  15. Michael Willis profile image77
    Michael Willisposted 7 years ago

    Thanks Hubteam. I also sent an e-mail to you Maddie.

  16. profile image0
    cosetteposted 7 years ago

    thank you Maddie.

    do hubbers get exiled for leaving spam or rude comments on your hubs? i think that is worse than forum fighting, but i respect HubPages' rules of conduct.

    just wondering. thank you.

    1. Maddie Ruud profile image83
      Maddie Ruudposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No, comments are treated differently, because each hubber is basically the moderator of their own hubs.

      You should deny spam comments and then hit the "spam" button to report them as such.  Our system will automatically start denying someone's comments if they have enough reported as spam.  If you receive threats or personal attacks from another user in the comments of your hub, you should email team(at)hubpages(dot)com to report them.

      1. profile image0
        cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        'k, thanks very much!

  17. yoshi97 profile image88
    yoshi97posted 7 years ago

    I'm all for this, as this is how things should be. smile

  18. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago

    Good for today ,but I still think yer gonna need a moderator, just is the internet culture.

    Either no censorship or do it right smile

    1. yoshi97 profile image88
      yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Actually, this forum is full of moderators. Each one of us has a vote to censor anyone we feel is getting out of line, and the staff has the final say on any vote.

      Why ask someone to read thousands of replies a day, sorting for the one evil, when we hit across it a hundred fold in our own travels?

      The only reason the system break down is the high school 'squeal law', which states that anyone who mentions the unnoticed behavior of another is a squealer and not worthy of being a member of society, which I have always seen as rubbish. The squeal law exists to give bullies eternal presence, nothing more.

      My boy was being bullied in school daily and actually cried when his Mom went to the principal about it, because he preferred getting teased over being known as a squealer. However, the principal dealt with the situation properly and now he goes to school without being teased anymore.

      The system only works when there are police everywhere ... and we are the police.

      Why, just lately I have been flagging spam in the forum (true spam, not the questionable items) and I'd like to think it's doing something to make things better. smile

      1. pauldeeds profile image
        59
        pauldeedsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        We probably don't say so enough, but we really do appreciate it when people accurately report spam in the forums.  We catch some of it ourselves, but most of what we remove (or correct) is the result of user reports.

        1. AEvans profile image70
          AEvansposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You guys are the best! smile

    2. Jane@CM profile image60
      Jane@CMposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Great rules.

      I agree with EK about more moderators.  Belonging to several message boards, they nominate moderators each year on a volunteer basis.  No bloods baths on those forums, although they do try smile

      With a large message board like this, a new forum format might work better smile

      1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
        Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        We just ahead of our time Jane wink at least on a volunteer basis ,HP dont have to take any revenue cuts smile

  19. AEvans profile image70
    AEvansposted 7 years ago

    Thank you for clarifying I just hope people read it and understand the rules, great job! smile

  20. Flightkeeper profile image78
    Flightkeeperposted 7 years ago

    Ooohhh, so you're Maddie.

    Hi!

  21. RedElf profile image85
    RedElfposted 7 years ago

    Thank you Maddie and Paul. Being the voice of reason in the kiddie pool must get wearing sometimes sad Thanks so much for all your hard work in keeping us chugging along (without actually killing any one, smile ) and for your continued grace under fire.
    Elle

  22. profile image0
    annvansposted 7 years ago

    This is great, I hope everyone will follow the rules.  Thanks for taking the time to post this.

  23. laringo profile image80
    laringoposted 7 years ago

    Thanks to the Hubpages staff for getting this information out. Many of us that have been here for awhile were getting very disgusted with the nastiness taking place. Hopefully this will fix things. Yime will tell. I will report any offenders in a heartbeat.

    1. profile image0
      sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Are you a stoolie? Where do you write? I want to cross those forums of my hit list!

  24. girly_girl09 profile image77
    girly_girl09posted 7 years ago

    Just saw this thread....absolutely wonderful! big_smile I often have to ignore topics I'd otherwise enjoyed discussing simply due to all of the 'ridiculousness' coming from every angle. Looking forward to the new attack-free forums...very exciting.

  25. profile image0
    shinujohn2008posted 7 years ago

    People who make posts from their false profiles should also be banned , by finding out their real profile at hubpages , which is easy for Hubpages Admins using the ip address.

    It should be done as lot of people try using newly created profiles to attack others.

    1. tksensei profile image61
      tksenseiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      For example?

      1. profile image0
        ryankettposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        For example, the man with 0 hubs, cheesy avatar..... who conveniently popped up just in time to tell me to kill myself. Of course, he signed up just for that didn't he?

        I believe that it was my response to this complete non-entity that got me banned.

        1. profile image0
          \Brenda Scullyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Hiya Ryan cannot tell you how pleased i am to see you, now move on o.k. foget what has gone before xxxxxxx

    2. Misha profile image76
      Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No, they should not be banned. smile

      And is it my poor English, or your wording is really condescending?

  26. Eaglekiwi profile image75
    Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago

    Accounts are banned , not IP'S ,is that correct?

  27. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    They can ban both smile

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      ok ,hmmm, rules

      1. profile image0
        rednckwmnposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        what if 2 people use the same computer?

        1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
          Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          bad luck on the non banned one I guess

          Still theres heaps of other cool sites out there, I think.

          1. profile image0
            rednckwmnposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            lucky me, hubby only looks up motorcycles n trucks.  smile

            1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
              Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Oh same here , hubby looks at property and cars or cleans this baby ,is that a guy thing , fiddle faddlin around lol

  28. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    I don't agree. I thought we were all grown ups. We should know how to manage personal attacks. Personal attacks to me are welcome. I believe in freedom. and freedom of speech.

    1. Eaglekiwi profile image75
      Eaglekiwiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Freedom of speech for some adults is kinda childish though.

      I dont like your opinion of Obama( example) because youre too fat ,too ugly , didnt go to the right college, live in the right house, speak English... lol wt?

      To be honest being called fat n ugly would be worse to me than a fruitcake...

      But its the F word

  29. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    You can't have freedom of speech on a privately run business. smile

    As for personal attacks - depends actually on what your goal is. If you just need to let off your steam, they are as good as anything else. If you want to get your message across though, personal attacks absolutely block it for most people smile

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I thought we were grown ups. Now I think maybe not.  I think I will leave soon.I hate being censored by short minded people. And that's what is going to happen, if anyone can report what they don't like being said. And reporting is a kind of personal attack, sometimes. sad

      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          @ eaglekiwi
        you can call me whatever you like smile I love a good fight between intelligent people big_smile

      2. Misha profile image76
        Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You definitely have some room to grow lol

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Of course I do!  smile Look yourself in the mirror big_smile

      3. Marisa Wright profile image92
        Marisa Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Tantrum, throughout history there have been people who've tried to justify being hateful and vicious on the grounds of free speech. These rules don't prevent people expressing their opinion - they prevent them expressing it in vicious, hateful language.

        Only people who like to be vicious and hateful should have a problem with that.

        1. profile image0
          Nelle Hoxieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well said Marissa. You've given words to the thoughts that I have been trying to form around this subject. I don't understand why people feel it's their right to be hateful on a privately-owned forum.

          (Or that they aren't worried about themselves that they seem to enjoy it - and need it- so much.)

  30. Storytellersrus profile image84
    Storytellersrusposted 7 years ago

    Okay I am expanding out into the Forums and this is very eye opening.  I was living my hub life so obliviously; thanks, for the information.  I will try and stop attacking everyone.

    1. Will Apse profile image89
      Will Apseposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Suddenly I am glad Mom and Dad turned up.

  31. Mighty Mom profile image91
    Mighty Momposted 7 years ago

    LOL. It appears the worst offenders (and no, that is NOT intended as a personal attack or passive aggressive reference. Honest!) are not weighing in here.
    Just an observation.

    Let's see how long "we" can go living with these newly re-clarified rules. Bets, anyone?

  32. Bibowen profile image91
    Bibowenposted 7 years ago

    Just read about the change in the forum rules regarding personal attacks. Glad to see it. Sticking to the issues and the arguments is where the discussion should stay anyway.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image92
      Marisa Wrightposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      There's no change in the rules - this is just a reminder to everyone as to what they've always been.

  33. Petra Vlah profile image60
    Petra Vlahposted 7 years ago

    Would be nice for people to follow those rules.

    Nothing hard to understand; just plain and simple courtesy

  34. khurram's world profile image60
    khurram's worldposted 7 years ago

    Oh yes we all have to follow these rules in order to make HubPages a top standard platform for all the writers.

  35. profile image0
    Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago

    yikes Marisa!!! I can see you now big_smile love the new picture I think I just noticed lol sorry haven't been around much

  36. Cagsil profile image61
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Thank you for the clarification. smile

  37. William R. Wilson profile image60
    William R. Wilsonposted 7 years ago

    The problem with this is that certain people are able to work around the restriction on personal attacks.  They can provoke, provoke, and provoke, and as long as they don't step over that arbitrary line they never get banned.  Meanwhile, good quality writers like Lita Sorensen and Pam Grundy get disgusted and leave or are forced away by people who have 1 hub and 3000 forum posts. 

    Am I the only one who can see the quality of this site slipping away because of this?

    1. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It might be worth requiring people to have a minimum number of hubs before they can post. Just a thought.

      1. The Rope profile image59
        The Ropeposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        On the surface, that sounds great and I would concur wholeheartedly.  Unfortunately the fall out may be to lower the quality of hubs as a whole which won't be good for any of us.

      2. blue dog profile image80
        blue dogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        a minimum number of quality hubs, with ongoing contributions.  there's a lot of garbage on the site, old and reincarnated, and it's not just in the form of poor hubs either.

        1. William R. Wilson profile image60
          William R. Wilsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It seems to me that there needs to be a range of things that are considered.  Ratio of hubs to forum posts would be one. Number of complaints to HP staff would be another.  Use of sock puppets should be a no no.  The number of hubs written each year should be considered too I think, but not by itself since you don't want to punish people who write 3 hubs and never come back but who are still getting some value from the work they did.

          It seems to me the main problem is not in the hubs but in the forums.  You can tell people to behave themselves but it is only natural to strike back when provoked.  Those who provoke, and who provide little value to the site, should not be allowed to chase productive writers away.

          It makes sense to me anyway.

  38. Uninvited Writer profile image82
    Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

    I don't see how it would lower the quality. People might actually read the FAQ's and help files instead of depending on someone else to give them an answer which might not be totally accurate.

  39. yoshi97 profile image88
    yoshi97posted 7 years ago

    Why not just allow access to the help forums until a hubber has created so many hubs?

    1. blue dog profile image80
      blue dogposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      that's another valid point, yoshi.  it still leaves loopholes though, and it's obvious there are many who will slither thru those holes.  a public i.d. on all multiple identities should be included in any reasonable solution.  we're not talking health care here.

      1. yoshi97 profile image88
        yoshi97posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Now THAT is an awesome suggestion! When a person posts in the forums an identifying number can be shown below their avatar that is a number created by their IP (I would recommend displaying everyone's IP).

        As most people are on high speed they are typically on a static IP, which means they have the same IP every day, which allows tracking ... and inevitably ... banning.

        People could then know if someone was using sock puppets. smile

  40. Dame Scribe profile image61
    Dame Scribeposted 7 years ago

    A great update, thank you Maddie and HP staff! big_smile

    1. tobey100 profile image59
      tobey100posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      We can get carried away and take this thing too far.  Read what you like, ignore what you don't.  If the forum is reported as violating the rules, blow it off and let's get on with it.  Otherwise let's just ban everyone we don't like or doesn't adhere to our standards like Seahawk fans, cat lovers, dentists and anyone driving a Dodge.  Makes as much sense.  Didn't someone suggest early we're adults?

      ps  I'm for whatever the majority wants.  (see how easy that was?)

  41. fishtiger58 profile image82
    fishtiger58posted 7 years ago

    crystal clear

  42. Rebecca E. profile image86
    Rebecca E.posted 7 years ago

    excellent, and perfectly stated.  thanks

  43. Internetwriter62 profile image86
    Internetwriter62posted 7 years ago

    I'm glad that you make sure that your hubbers are protected from unkind remarks. I think that is very sad. This is an open writing forum, and there will be a diversity of opinions, and people will not always agree with one another. Therefore, I agree with you, we need to respect one another, we must all strive for diplomacy when we don't see eye to eye.

  44. Cagsil profile image61
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    Thank you Maddie and Paul. smile

  45. Sally's Trove profile image99
    Sally's Troveposted 7 years ago

    It really isn't that complicated.

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    If you really need to punch someone's lights out, then is that because you wish someone would do that to you?  If so, you need therapy.

    There are so many productive things to do in life. Why waste energy bashing somebody you don't even know when you could be working on bettering yourself and those around you?

    1. profile image60
      Harish14decposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      very nice dear we understand what you say

      1. profile image60
        Harish14decposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        can you post some more

  46. agvulpes profile image88
    agvulpesposted 7 years ago

    I agree with some others that 'personal abuse' can be a judgmental thing.  What may offend me would possibly go over someone else's head .
    One point I would like to raise is :
    If someone reports someone in a frivolous manner just to get an enemy banned, then perhaps the 'reportee' should cop the ban?

  47. marinealways24 profile image59
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    What if I write something and make them attack themselves, but they report me as attacking them? If I reported myself, would I still get banned? Can I make a personal attack on myself?

    1. susanlang profile image61
      susanlangposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      LOL.. are you for real? Only kidding...now don't go and think that was some kind of attack smile smile

      1. susanlang profile image61
        susanlangposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        love the picture of the dog by the way..reminds me of the one used in that movie.. a comedy and the dog slubbered all the time smile

  48. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 6 years ago

    I would appreciate some clarification on my recent forum ban, as I seem to miss the change in rules. Could somebody please tell me:

    1. Why my ban duration was 7 days instead of declared 3 days?
    2. Why the ban was applied two weeks after alleged violation, out of the blue?

    I did not receive any response to those questions by email, so I am posting them here.

    Thank you.

    1. darkside profile image80
      darksideposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Do you get told which post was the problem?

    2. pauldeeds profile image
      59
      pauldeedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      The post wasn't 'reported' until 2 weeks after you made it (which is within our statute of limitations).  We don't go looking for people to ban, and we certainly don't read every post that is made on the forum.

  49. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 6 years ago
  50. Ron Montgomery profile image61
    Ron Montgomeryposted 6 years ago

    Life is not fair smile

    1. Misha profile image76
      Mishaposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      LOL Absolutely smile

 
working