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My Hubs Just Suck

  1. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    Hi Hubbers!

    Or what is it we call ourselves here? LOL - Sorry, I’m a Squid until now, so I’m fairly new to the depths of Hub. 

    I’m wondering if anyone has tips on what makes a Hub rank well?

    Now I know no one knows the perfect algorithm used, but basically, like on Squidoo, there are things that make a rank better.

    My Hubs range from 60s to 70s. They have 100% original content and images, but a poor Hub rank.

    Any advice?
    Thanks ahead of time!

    Oh! My Hubs are:

    /toptoddlertoys
    /How-to-Alter-Private-Label-Rights-Products
    and
    /Whats-Your-Excuse-for-Not-Writing-an-eBook

    I’m just getting started and plan on doing more with health here, but haven’t built anymore lenses until I know what I’m doing wrong. It's frustrating taking time to write and add images and then the Hub doesn't go anywhere while I see all sorts of 90s flowing around here.

    Thanks!
    Tiff smile

    1. Dorsi profile image93
      Dorsiposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Tiffany,
      I read your hub about E-Books. It's well written with good elements. I'm not sure why it's ranking low, I would have thought this would be a popular subject. And being a newbie, I'm not sure what goes into hubscoring quite yet ( but I'm learning..lol) There are some hubs out there about hubscores, have you checked them out and analyzed them?

    2. embitca profile image88
      embitcaposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      If you're such a newbie, then why are you already promoting yourself as some sort of Hubpages expert on the Warrior's Forum? Or are you simply using this forum to research your next ebook?

      http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/topic … _ID=231268

      1. relache profile image85
        relacheposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        ....because that's what Tiffany does....  She's a professional ghostwriter and marketer.

  2. stephhicks68 profile image80
    stephhicks68posted 9 years ago

    Darkside has lots of information about how Hubscore works.  So, I won't try to summarize it.  And, I'm still new myself - and learning - and revising my hubs!  Best of luck - you've done the right thing in reaching out.  Your hubs don't "suck" at all.  But I'll bet with some tweaking you can get more traffic and the score will rise.

  3. waynet profile image49
    waynetposted 9 years ago

    The thing that I see most of here is to continuously write original content, much like a blog format, you have to keep adding new useful content and just drive traffic to your hubs like any other site.

    Yeah the algorythm is a bit mysterious, but I reckon it's to do with writing often to get a raise in hub score, but even then I suspect that a high hubscore is only a benefit within hubpages, but outside of it, a high hub score has no meaning!!

  4. Marye Audet profile image89
    Marye Audetposted 9 years ago

    Tiffany- it seems well written.  I wonder if you would consider changing your title to something that your readers might search for..
    Catchy titles are perfect for blogging but I have found o hubs it is better to phrase the title as it would be phrased in aearch
    How to write an e-book
    E-book writing
    Making money with e books
    etc.

    Keep up the good work

  5. profile image0
    daflaposted 9 years ago

    First, you need some traffic.  Then you need some comments.  Then you need some fans.

    First step is to start bookmarking every single hub you write on all the major sites.  Wait, I think we're banned on one of them, but I can't remember which.  Oh well, do it anyway.

    Then, start reading other people's hubs and make comments on them.  Become a fan of hubbers you like, and they will reciprocate. 

    BTW, are you still at Squidoo?  I've been having real problems with that whole site going really, really slowly.  I actually asked for help last night, and got it at 9 p.m. my time, less than an hour after I contacted them, so not bad.

  6. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    You know, there's something about web 2.0 forums that just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.  It's so great to see people helping other people and being supportive when so many in forums online flame people and get into ridiculous arguments.

    So...that said, THANK you! I will take the advice and dig into it deeper. I just wanted to make sure you experienced Hubbers weren't looking at mine going, "Sheez - she's doing it ALL wrong!" 

    I guess it's similar to a lens on Squidoo in that your Google ranking won't matter based on your Hub ranking. I have lenses that don't have a good LensRank but they're #1 in Google, so I don't care smile lol (Squidoo switched servers, fyi - so yes, they're acting up right now.)

    I'll start getting into it a bit more and see if my health topics have a better effect. Thanks so much for the help!
    tiff smile

    PS - If anyone knows the url to those hub rank pages, let me know! I'm gonna try to find them on my own.

    1. stephhicks68 profile image80
      stephhicks68posted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Go to Darkside's profile and start digging!  smile

      http://hubpages.com/profile/darkside

    2. darkside profile image80
      darksideposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Here's a direct link.

  7. Uninvited Writer profile image81
    Uninvited Writerposted 9 years ago

    Tell me about it. Today most of my hubs are in the 60s...

  8. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    Thanks! I'll go dig into his/her profile now.

    Okay, I gave it another try – this time on a health topic:

    http://hubpages.com/hub/loweryourcholesterol

    Now…

    Questions About Hub Making:

    1.) When you’re first making a Hub, do you have to enter a tag, then click add another tag, then enter the tag, then click add another tag, etc.? Or can I just add as many spaces as I want and then go in and fill them in?

    2.) Is there a limit as to the # of tags a Hub can have?

    3.) When adding images, what is “Add to batch list?”

    4.) I only know how to align images to the right.  Since some text capusles are long, is there a way to align another image to the left? So in other words, I might have an image in the upper right corner, and then in the lower left corner?

    5.) It’s not okay to have multiple links to one location, yet an RSS feed does…so…what’s the difference?

    Tiff wink

    1. quotations profile image90
      quotationsposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Hi and welcome to Hubpages,

      1. I believe you have to add your tags sequentially. You cannot create blank spaces and fill then in later.

      2. I think that there is no limit to the number of tags, at least I have never reached it - but too many tags might be considered spamming by google, especially if the tags do not correspond to significant text in your hub

      3. Adding images to batch list refers to uploading multiple images at once. The batch is the group of images you selected for uploading. Loading multiple images is useful for creating a slideshow.

      4. It is not possible to align images left. Which is too bad.

      5. That's a good question. The rss feed must be an implied exception to the rule.


      Hope this helps.

  9. Whitney05 profile image61
    Whitney05posted 9 years ago

    1.) When you’re first making a Hub, do you have to enter a tag, then click add another tag, then enter the tag, then click add another tag, etc.? Or can I just add as many spaces as I want and then go in and fill them in?

    You can't make blanks. You have to add at least one tag. You can always go back and add new tags later on though.

    2.) Is there a limit as to the # of tags a Hub can have?

    Not as of yet.

    3.) When adding images, what is “Add to batch list?”

    Add to batch is basically used when you're going to upload multiple pictures to the same capsule and you just put them aside and upload them all at once.

    4.) I only know how to align images to the right.  Since some text capusles are long, is there a way to align another image to the left? So in other words, I might have an image in the upper right corner, and then in the lower left corner?

    You can only align images to the right. You cannot align to the left.

    5.) It’s not okay to have multiple links to one location, yet an RSS feed does…so…what’s the difference?

    You can only have 2 links to the same website. Otherwise, it's considered overly promotional. The same goes if you promote the same links in all of your hubs, I believe. RSS feeds are designed differently than a regular link. I'm not sure the exact difference as to why it is different, though.

    Edit: quotations we must have been typing at the same time. Ha.

  10. mroconnell profile image81
    mroconnellposted 9 years ago

    Your hubs don't seem very long.  They tend to have just a few content capsules.  I'm not sure what the hubscoring algorithm really wants, but I've noticed that the scores on my lengthier capsules continue going up over time.

    Remember that hubscore is just an arbitrary number.  It's like a game and we're not allowed to know the rules which should be an indication that there are more important things.  Make sure you're having fun writing hubs.  Make sure your hubs are useful to other people.  And, if you're in it for the shekels, make sure you're doing what it takes to get people interested in clicking ads.

  11. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    Thanks, y'all!  That helps a lot.

    Still a little confused about the image thingy. Is it a slide show or a list of one image on top of another like vertically?

    1. Uninvited Writer profile image81
      Uninvited Writerposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Here is an example of the slide show on one of my hubs

      http://hubpages.com/hub/My-ocicat--Boo

    2. darkside profile image80
      darksideposted 9 years ago in reply to this
  12. Maddie Ruud profile image79
    Maddie Ruudposted 9 years ago

    Hey Tiffany.  Your hubs don't "suck" by any means.  Checked 'em out, have a few thoughts.

    I see that a lot of them contain Squidoo links.  Are you also linking to your HubPages on your related Squidoo lenses?  That could bring in some traffic.

    You've been a member for 6 months, but only really active more recently, from what I can see.  The more you participate here, and the more hubs you publish, the more traffic and authority you'll gain, not only within the community, but outside of it.

    So don't be too hard on yourself.  It's a work in progress (isn't everything?), and you're on the right track by publishing unique, evergreen content.  Keep on keeping on!

  13. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    Hey Maddie!

    I did go to my Squidoo lenses and add a HUGE area to promote my Hub (the heart health one).

    I do just need to get a move on so to speak, don't I?

    I got so comfortable at Squidoo that it was hard to leave my comfy spot. But it's very welcoming here, and even though my Hubs don't appear to be great at first, I hope to learn a lot from you all.
    tiff smile

  14. mroconnell profile image81
    mroconnellposted 9 years ago

    Geez.  You've gotten about 20 fans in the past couple hours. 

    I think my hubs suck too, everybody. wink

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, I put feelers out to my Squidoo customers asking them for their Hub pages so I can learn from them too and asked them to share their tips with me for my eBook. Lots of good pages out there!

  15. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    Yes, I'm writing an eBook about it. Step by Step for newbies. But I've been completely honest with my customers that I'm just know learning the ropes myself. Not promoting myself as an expert.

    That's what this whole process is. I've been in touch with several Hub staff, letting them know what I'm doing (researching everything for my eBook).  The reason for that is, I want to make sure I write about it so that everything adheres to not just TOS, but etiquette, too.

    My customers (and Warriors) like the style I explain things in - very non-technical, step by step, so you don't have to go posting in forums asking questions - it's all  laid out for you. So what I do (with Squidoo, Twitter, and other sites like Hub), is I dig my heels in, learn the ropes, and pass the information along.

    That's why I gave them that sneak peek showing them how mine failed initially. The eBook will end with me being an expert because for the next month or so, that's my job - to become one. Hence, the questions smile

    Is this offensive?  To some, I know the whole "make money online" thing is, but it's not meant to be all spammy. I'm going about it the right way I believe.
    tiff wink

    1. embitca profile image88
      embitcaposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      The right way, in my opinion, would have been mentioning it in the first post on this thread rather than explaining it on page 2. Either you could have mentioned it or someone from Hubpages could have mentioned it since they seem to have given you their blessing.

      And I just saw your bitch session on Warrior's Forum. For the record, I am in IM. It is how I make my full-time living. In fact, I've bought content from you in the past and I expect I may do so again in the future.

      I do not have a problem with people making money or with selling information that can be found for free (unless the info is scammy). Time is money after all and some people have more money and less time. But I do have issues with disclosure and since you are basically using the forum to have other people do much of the scut work for you on how this site works (You have to DIG? Come on! You get multiple answers for every question you ask, complete with supporting links, there is no digging), I feel that you should have disclosed immediately. That is all.

      As someone who is in IM though, I do shudder a bit when I see new e-books coming out in the WSO forum on how to exploit a particular resource because it has happened more than once that I've seen the well completely poisoned by people who just take the bare bones info and don't follow all the rules of courtesy and fair play that authors such as yourself advice. It isn't your fault, obviously, and you can't give an IQ test to customers first unfortunately, but it does make you the most visible person to blame.

      I have no doubt that by allowing you to rummage through everyone's brains in the forums that the Hubpages team is hoping to mitigate some of the impact of any book about using this site to make money by making sure you understand just how strictly things are run here unlike the Squidoo wild wild west, but I also have no doubt that after your first WSO for it, Maddie will be working overtime to stem the tide of spam coming from the subset of folks who will purchase your book, but will only read the headlines and not bother to appreciate the nuances of getting along here that you will be sharing with them.

      1. Lissie profile image85
        Lissieposted 9 years ago in reply to this


        One of the reasons I wrote Hubpages for Internet Marketing is because  I was bored late one night watching TV and flicking thru the latest hubs list - I think I flagged about 40% of what was on the first couple of pages - its really easy to pick a spammer - because as you say  - most appear not that bright - so if anyone does want to have a bit of fun- check out the latest hubs

        -  the ones that are 2 lines long with a link - flag
        - the ones in a foreign language - flag
        - the ones that have lots and lots of links to a similar site  - flag
        - double check the hubs with no photos -especially if the same author has published more than 1 hub on the page - which is usually within the hour - if it looks well written - grab a couple of lines of text, highlight crtl-C  - not from the start - they can be taught to change that but from a middle paragraph: click on google and ctrlV the text into google- the first match should be the hub - there shouldn't be any other matches - if there are its duplicate content -  usually from wikipedia or ezines or another article site - doesn't matter if they are the author its illegal on hP  - flag the hub and drop the url of the duplicate in the notes section to make Maddies life easier!

  16. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    PS - I'm not just using the forum as research (wanted to clarify).

    Like with Squidoo, I was a member before I decided to write an eBook and only when I noticed success did I decide I wanted to share the knowledge of it.

    Even though "my hub pages suck," they ARE performing rank wise in Google for me for the keyword phrases I was targeting, so like Squidoo, it's another site I wanted to share.

    I will be a permanent member here, not leaving once the eBook is complete. I'm not using the people, in other words. I really want to learn. And so do many others (not make money niche, but people who promote gardening, parenting, caregiving, etc.).

    tiff wink

  17. Inspirepub profile image80
    Inspirepubposted 9 years ago

    Hi Tiffany,

    I have your Squidoo book, and I have written a Hub about the problems of Web 2.0 Marketing as is it being promoted at the moment.

    Feel free to use the material in it.

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Web-20-Marketin … Or-Fiction

    Jenny

    P.S. Just in case, because I don't go into credentials on the Hub, I have an Honours degree in Psychology and 20 years' experience in marketing consulting across a wide range of industries, and I am writing about the "make money online" industry from a perspective that not many IM gurus have (Rich Schefren being one notable exception).

  18. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    Thanks so much, Jenny! Rich was one of my first long-term clients. He taught me a lot.

    The thing is, so many marketers just circle these sites like sharks - wanted to gulp down their prey (traffic/vitisors), so they take a shortcut, buy some awful (and cheap) plr, tack it up with no images, dont' participate in the community, and then gripe when the site isn't working for them.

    You've read my Squidoo eBook - I try to teach people the importance of it being a peer-to-peer interactive environment, but some will never get it.  What's rewarding is to get emails from those who DO get it and who make lots of friends on Squidoo (or hub for instance) and then in turn, succeed financially from their efforts.

    I made a mistake with my first version of the Squidoo eBook in not stressing more the etiquette, so in later versions, I made sure to add that in. I had just naively assumed everyone would do what I did - write original content, make the page aesthetically pleasing, and participatewith their peers, and they didn't. I got blamed for an onslaught of spammy types, so I'll never make that mistake again.
    tiff

  19. Rik Ravado profile image90
    Rik Ravadoposted 9 years ago

    Back to the Hubscore issue, I notice the highest scoring of my 'mature' Hubs (those that have been published for a while) all have the bulk of their traffic coming from sites external to HubPages.

    I agree your Hubs look pretty good in terms of content.  You make need to look at a bit of SEO, extenal links etc, to draw in traffic from search engines, blogs or social networking sites.

    A clue to your problem with the Cholesterol hub is that there are a large number of hubs with this keyword already.  This will be the same on Google.  You might try changing the title or the introduction to draw more search traffic.

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks, Rik! I have just now started funneling traffic from outside to my Hub. Plus, I'm about to launch a heart health blog, so I'll promote them there, too.

      Someone had mentioned that my Hubs don't have a lot of content. Does anyone know what's a good word count? I like smaller broken up articles instead of large ones (especially without the ability to add another left-aligned image), but if I need to add more capsules initially, I will. I planned on adding more content as time goes on, but perhaps there's a good initial number I need to be shooting for?

      1. Inspirepub profile image80
        Inspirepubposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        I would do a minimum of 500 words, to make a Hub "feel" meaty, but 700-1000 is better.

        I am curious as to what your objection is to floating images to the right?

        I use all sorts of objects to break up large chunks of text - even Amazon capsules, if I can't think of any better alternative!

        That Web 2.0 Hub is quite long, so I had to use a variety of tricks to break up the text and make it look approachable - let me know if you can't figure out how I did any of them, and I'll tell you.

        Jenny

        1. profile image0
          TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago in reply to this

          No, no objection to the right. What I want to do is have a top right image next to where the text begins, and then - if I have a lengthy capsule, I'd like to align one to the left farther down. Kind of staggering it.

          I wouldn't mind being able to do an Amazon capsule, either. If you look at the Anatomy of an aerty section on my lens here: squidoo.com/high-cholesterol-foods you'll see how I do it - an image to the right and a product (or sometimes just an image) to the left. 

          But I have to use SquidUtils.com for that since Squidoo doesn't have that capability, either.

          Which brings me to a good question - is there anything similar to squidutils.com for hub pages?

  20. danielmybrother profile image82
    danielmybrotherposted 9 years ago

    Hi Tiffany,
    Your Hubs don't suck!
    I don't know if there's a connection, but I've used lots of photos on the two Hubs I've written so far and have gotten good scores.

  21. Lissie profile image85
    Lissieposted 9 years ago

    I find about 1000 words seem to work well - 1500 is good too  for hubscore - but I think they are little long for actual readability - though darkside has a sneaky approach that hacks a table of contents which I haven't got around to using yet.  I find 500  words means that I don't really have enough hubscore to get noticed - I suppose I could promote the hell out of some of the smaller ones but I really can't be bothered :-)

    You might be writing the ebook but I have just written the hub - not that I am any expert on marketing  - though I am better than some- the mistakes people make seem so obvious that I decided to write them down [url= Hubpages for Internet Marketing[/url]

  22. waynet profile image49
    waynetposted 9 years ago

    Tiff mate, I don't bother with word count I just wait until I run out of steam and break up my article into a few text capsules and spread them throughout the hub!

    But later on adding or updating the content is what I like to do best, I've written quite a few articles over at ezinearticles.com and I've completely re written them to include as a hub page or a squidoo page...it's just finding the time to do all of this..!!!

    This forum is great for finding stuff out, so just ask away!!

  23. Inspirepub profile image80
    Inspirepubposted 9 years ago

    Amazon capsules will "fill" on the left just like text. Just leave the Amazon capsule full width and float an image to the right inside it, and you will get the Amazon capsule contents to the left of the image.

    I don't believe there is an equivalent utility here, but Darkside is the man to ask - he has a hack for everything that's hackable ...

    Jenny

  24. Marisa Wright profile image92
    Marisa Wrightposted 9 years ago

    If anyone should be writing an ebook on how to Hub, it should be Darkside.

    He has some of the best Hubs on that subject, but if you're going to use the material in your book, I hope you'll have the grace to credit him.

  25. Inspirepub profile image80
    Inspirepubposted 9 years ago

    I have to say, Tiffany, that I am a bit dubiouis about charging people for a book on how to Hub.

    Presumably they will be paying out this money in the expectation that Hubbing will help them to make money.

    Given that Hubbing as it is designed produces a couple of dollars per 1000 views, only people who are really good at getting traffic make anything like an income from Hubbing.

    To use HubPages to get traffic and channel it to another site requires being ten times as good at getting traffic to the Hub, because of the drop-off from arriving as a Hub visitor to exiting via a link.

    I can see some SEO value in links from Hubs, but to achieve that value you need a Hub Score over 50 and a Hubber Score over 75, and that requires constant activity on the site to maintain. Drop down, and your links all get "no follow" tagged. Links in comments are "no follow" tagged.

    I can't see how you can extract $30 from someone to teach them how to do this without misrepresenting the "opportunity" presented by HubPages.

    For someone who is willing to join the community and produce exclusive content for Hubs ongoingly, it is certainly an enjoyable activity and a great community.

    However, the best strategy I can see for anyone else is to pay established Hubbers to Hub for them under the established Hubber's ID, which takes away the overhead of effort required to keep the links live.

    Jenny

  26. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    "Heard the Horror Stories About Hub Pages Being Shut Down Without Warning?

    Want to Ride the Wave of Web 2.0, But Just Get Confused and Need a Little Step-By-Step "Make It Happen for Me Fast" Guidelines?

    Well I'm writing the second of my web 2.0 guides (The first was Social Networking on Squidoo) and this one is called Harnessing Traffic from Hub Pages.

    It's not yet complete, but I'm giving you a quick sneak peek into the coming report FREE. It's a short chapter, but if you've ever had trouble with Hub - you'll realize you aren't alone! And you'll discover the similarities and differences between Hub and Squidoo."

    Sheesh - another expert who's been here five minutes and can't even work out how to add images. Just what we need.

    What's going to be your first piece of advice?

    Pretend to be too stupid to work out how the site works, then ask questions on the forum until the people doing the answering are so fed up with newbies asking for some help with their hub entitled "Generating massive amounts of traffic using hubpages." that no one answers any questions any more.

    1. Lissie profile image85
      Lissieposted 9 years ago in reply to this



      Welcome Mark I hoped you would be able to take some time out from the Christina-baiting forum to have fun on this thread! :-)

  27. Inspirepub profile image80
    Inspirepubposted 9 years ago

    Only people who are newbies will write eBooks about how to make a lot of money on HubPages.

    Once you really understand how HubPages works, you don't want it ruined by an influx of the kind of people who buy and read eBooks about how to make a lot of money on HubPages.

    You can't stop people from writing these books, and you can't stop people from buying them.

    I would be interested in Tiffany's take on how she can ethically market this book, given the facts about how HubPages works. The material you just quoted (and I assume it's from Tiffany's site somewhere) certainly misrepresents what the reader is likely to gain out of using HubPages.

    Tiff sounds as though she is genuinely trying to do the right thing, so give her a chance to explain her thinking. She may be new to HubPages, but she's not new to writing, marketing, social networking sites, etc, which will be the bulk of the book, so she's certainly qualified to start researching.

    Give her a chance to show that she is not here to either poison the well, or to lay a foundation for fleecing a bunch of IM sheep.

    Tiff - amber light. This community could kill your eBook stone dead, or cut your sales dramatically, if it doesn't support what you are doing. It seems you are alienating HubPages influencers. You need to take heed and really think about your approach.

    What will it do to your refund rates if your customers arrive in the HubPages forums to read seven threads about how crappy Tiffany Dow's HubPages eBook is?

    The issue is deeper than just etiquette. It is about philosophy, orientation, and honoring what has been built by those who came before you.

    I believe you mean to do the right thing. I am behind you in doing the right thing. This eBook will force you to confront some of your core assumptions about marketing, community, and the role of business interactions in human relationships - or it will flop. The choice is yours.

    You could possibly be writing the "Attention Doctrine" of 2008, if you get this right.

    You could write the document that rewrites the playbook of Web 2.0 marketing. You could be the first internet marketing "guru" writer to break this new ground.

    The people here would give you the shirts off their backs, if they knew that was what you were up to. You would get so much help and contribution, you would not believe it.

    At the moment, they feel used. If you don't understand why, read my Hub again.

    Please articulate a vision for producing something more than just another bucket to scoop cash from the "make money online" river. I believe you have a higher purpose here. Now is the time to share it.

    Show us your ethics, your vision, what you hope to contribute to the HubPages community. Inspire us to see you as something more than another exploitative marketer. Create a cause worth joining. Do something different from what all those other IM "gurus" are doing.

    If it scares you, admit it. If it challenges you, let us know. If you don't know how but you're willing to give it a go, say that. HubPages is not a Web 2.0 platform - it is a place where people talk to PEOPLE.

    Authenticity. Passion. Vulnerability. Vision. Courage. Humility. Generosity.

    This is what we need to hear from you.

    I believe you have it in you. Bring it forth. What you can do with this community behind you is so much greater than you can yet imagine.

    Jenny

  28. About-The-Home profile image59
    About-The-Homeposted 9 years ago

    Well said Jenny!

  29. Lissie profile image85
    Lissieposted 9 years ago

    Jenny the quality of that reply compared to the level the debate dropped to over at Warrior Forums says it all really! http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/topic … hichpage=1

    Apparently IM have the god given right to flog anything to anyone and no one should argue about their right to charge! :-)

  30. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    Embitca  -

    My customer base is not Hub audiences who are already there, but IM people who are already following me, which is why to my list and to the WF, I disclosed I’m a complete newbie learning the ropes. That was my disclosure, but I understand your concern. Mine? That everyone at Hub would panic (as some seem to do) and then I’d have to explain what I’m about to explain…

    For the record, no one gave me a “blessing” about this – they simply know about it. The “bitch session stems from lissie entering a WSO that I paid for to list a free report (just stating that Hub Pages is a great resource, basically and letting people know I’m going to dive into it and write an eBook) and she slammed me that I sell info products (sarcastically referring to how much I charge for my Squidoo eBook and saying, “you’re no expert,” etc.). I thought it was quite rude, so I responded.

    I still don’t see how I need to disclose it here to people since I’m learning for myself first and foremost. But I’ve not hidden it. It’s just not my target audience – because the people I’m asking questions to already know.

    I’m not just posting random questions people need to know. I’m doing the work, and running into issues as a Hub member myself, so I personally (regardless of the eBook) need assistance. And it is digging to me – I first try to resolve the issue myself. Then I contact people I know who use Hubs. THEN, if no one knows, I post a question. But I do apologize if you feel I should have disclosed before page 2.

    I do understand your fear that they’re going to poison the system. They already are. Seen spam lately? It’s because tons of marketers are already using Hub Pages (there was a HUGE buzz about it before I even thought of writing an eBook) – but the wrong way.

    I teach people that the site is a waste of time unless you follow it the way it’s supposed to be used, and then you can reap great rewards, and you’re right – the best way for me to convey the proper usage is to get the insight of people like you, who DO already understand it.

    It’s no secret that the TOS isn’t enough to explain the fine details. For instance, I discovered last night that I can never be a flagship hub builder because on a Hub, I had used a ClickBank link – and they frown on that. I didn’t know that! I only knew you couldn’t have 2 of the same links. 

    People need some help having this all laid out for them. Including me! It’s a lengthy process to me. Test, fail, test again…try to get it right. I don’t half-do it, but you’re right – some will only read the headlines. But they’re already here anyway.

    Hub is so much stricter than Squidoo. They’re not going to have an easy time of it if they spam, and I’ll emphasize that – that it’s not for anyone who plans to take the shortcut route, and that they’ll be wasting their money on the eBook if that’s their intention.

    Jenny,

    Good points. In the eBook, I will also teach traffic generation methods. I haven’t even instituted those yet to my Hubs – it’s a last step. But these niche marketers have resources on that – their goal is to find places they can become experts on things and share information.

    And you’re right, there is SEO value in the Hubs – everyone knows how well they rank.  I will be sharing the same tip – you have to maintain the Hub score, or you get nofollow, so that’s good they’ll know – it’ll make them better Hubbers, right?

    I don’t have to misrepresent the opportunity. A lot of marketers are already seeing great success with Hub Pages. You’re right about paying established Hubbers to Hub for you. In fact, I’ll be doing in this book what I did with Squidoo – providing a list of names and contacts of Hub experts who would like to do this for a fee.

    If anyone wants on that list, let me know – because the Squidoo experts got swamped. People like knowing the information for themselves, but they much prefer outsourcing it if they can afford it, so they’ll hire you.

    I deeply appreciate you saying I’m trying to do the right thing so give me a chance. I’m used to this – went through it with Squidoo. I personally chat on the phone and via email with Seth Godin and other Squid staff. I always work to try to help decrease spam and teach people the right way. They’re here anyway. Now, and as lissie said – she’s flagging 40% of the Hubs or whatever…they’re crawling all over this place!  But NO ONE has guided them, so they’ll keep ruining it until they know.

    I’m gonna write the eBook. There are two others I know of already that are HORRIBLE and are teaching spam and blackhat techniques. If you know of me and my work, then you’ll know I’m a marketer who is 100% reachable by my customers. I hold their hand. I tell the truth, and I’m an ethical marketer, not a spam factory.

    It’s not my fault I’m alienating Hub influencers – it’s a natural response by everyone to fear an influx of “marketers,” but I don’t see what I’ve done wrong.

    You said, “What will it do to your refund rates if your customers arrive in the HubPages forums to read seven threads about how crappy Tiffany Dow's HubPages eBook is? The issue is deeper than just etiquette. It is about philosophy, orientation, and honoring what has been built by those who came before you.”

    I’m not worried about my refund rate because I know my product will be good. This is MY business and I respect and honor MY work – the writing about this type of stuff. I believe you are all going to be happy with what you read if and when you read it.

    You said, “If it scares you, admit it. If it challenges you, let us know. If you don't know how but you're willing to give it a go, say that. HubPages is not a Web 2.0 platform - it is a place where people talk to PEOPLE.”

    Yes – that’s what I’m trying to do here! It’s why I’m visiting hubs, posting in the forums (not just the help one), and it’s why I’m reaching out via email to the higher ups. It’s why I announced in the WF that I was a total newbie – I’m not a marketer who fakes the facts. I’ve said bluntly to my list that Hubs is hard – it IS! Maybe not to you guys, but it’s difficult for me. I’m so used to Squidoo and it IS like the wild west comparatively.

    But I love Squidoo. I want to love Hub Pages, too. And this whole reaction is WHY you don’t go into a forum and with your first post say, “Hey I’m writing an eBook – how do you…” Because I KNOW what many of my colleagues are and do. I know how they hire cheap ghostwriters to paste together a piece of utter crap teaching blackhat methods.

    I’m not them.

    Mark –

    If you read my other threads (or emails), you’ll see that I tell everyone, “I’m JUST NOW digging into Hub pages, learning from a total newbie perspective…” Don’t worry, I’m not positioning myself as an expert YET.

    (embitca, this was the type of panic response I was talking about).

    Mark said, “Pretend to be too stupid to work out how the site works, then ask questions on the forum until the people doing the answering are so fed up with newbies asking for some help with their hub entitled "Generating massive amounts of traffic using hubpages." that no one answers any questions any more.”

    No, I’m not pretending to be too stupid to figure the site out. There are lots of people asking questions about these things because it’s not 100% clear. What exactly about that headline had you irked? I tell people they’re not alone if they’ve had trouble figuring out Hub Pages. I’ve read countless threads lately that said, “Why did my Hub page get shut down?” No one even realizes it’s not shut down! They’re not educated. They want someone to walk them through it and no, they don’t have time to get to know you folks and learn from you. I’m making that MY job.

    Lissie – you know why that whole discussion proceeded, don’t you?  Because those in the WF are generally supportive of me. My customers trust me because I don’t mislead them so when they see me being attacked by someone in my own WSO, which is bad etiquette there, it makes them come out in droves to support me. It’s a loving community, like this is. There, you’re on the outside – here, I am.

    I just didn’t like the way you acted as if I was an evil doer for selling free information and yet you were promoting a WordPress for Dummies guide on YOUR hub – and WordPress is a free site, so it seemed hypocritical.

    Listen…I get where you’re coming from. I had to put my big girl panties on to even come in here and face it. I get it. I really do. I hate the crappy eBook and “get rich quick” stuff too. That’s not me. Learn about me first, then pass judgment. Please. That’s all I ask.

    I’m not here to ruin anything, but to educate people about the right way to use Hub Pages. You don’t HAVE to help me. I’ll figure it out eventually. But I hope that you do. I hope that if you have a great tip that will help the community, you share it – because this IS a peer to peer place and it’s the ONLY way many marketers will learn.

    I’m gonna see if anyone on my list is a Hub user already – perhaps they can come and give their own $0.02 about what type of person I am. I promise, I don’t have bad marketer B.O.

    Tiff wink

    1. embitca profile image88
      embitcaposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      I'm ON your list. I've been giving my .02 cents. You should have disclosed up front. period.

      And your list members and warriors who are coming in to defend you right now .... not helping your case at all.

      I'd be willing to bet they are not sock puppets, gang. Just your usual idiot Internet Marketer wannabees.

      John, welcome to Hubpages. Basically everything you are saying is I thought what I was trying to say.

      1. PSP profile image58
        PSPposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        Since when is being self-employed a crime?  And why does being "social" mean remaining poor?

      2. profile image50
        BigKingFunposted 9 years ago in reply to this

        This is actually partly what prompted me to add my thoughts. I've seen this before where someone gets called out for something and they get a whole bunch of people who are part of their community jumping in to defend them on another community that they aren't a part of. Tiffany's email didn't outright ask for people to support her in this thread, but it included a link here and I think it's a safe assumption some of those people are going to jump in and defend her.

        I thought I'd add my feedback here instead of emailing back to Tiffany directly, since I think this is where the discussion should really be happening.

        Honestly, I feel almost like a turncoat because I don't agree with her position even though I'm an "internet marketer" myself big_smile

        Tiffany, I don't think you're a bad person. I don't think you promoted spamming and I don't think you are intentionally trying to take advantage of the people here who helped you.

        I just think you overstepped the boundaries set by the members here and instead of simply saying you made a mistake, you're digging yourself a deeper hole. Whether or not you agree with those boundaries is irrelevent in my opinion, because the fact is they exist.

        If you start your own social network/community site you can set the boundaries and terms however you like, but when you're playing in someone else's sandbox you have to play by their rules.

        John

  31. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    I am irked because you have taken the lazy way of asking these questions and they are not for your benefit in making better hubs, they are so you can have some one else answer all these questions for you which you then plan to sell as an ebook.

    You did not state this when you asked your original question which then turned into a list of questions.

    The other thing that irks me is you are planning on selling an ebook that is entitled:

    "Harnessing Traffic from Hub Pages"

    And, in fact, are already promoting that book, despite the fact that you have not actually learned how to do what you are proposing to sell people the secret to.

    So your intention is to encourage the sort of person we see here all the time who are just here to promote something outside this site. You are missing one of the main points of hubpages as a community and will be attempting to sell this to others.

    As a matter of fact, your "Cooking for cholesterol ," hub breaks HPs terms of service in that it has more than 2 links to the same site in it and you have an amazon affiliate link hidden in the text rather than using an amazon capsule. Along with another clickbank affiliate link in the text. You are attempting to avoid hubpages' rules and are trying to work the system. Do we really want a bunch more people here doing that? Not me thanks.

    So I have flagged it as overly promotional. Whether it stays up or manages to just squeak past the rules is not up to me big_smile

    I could have respected you a lot more if you had taken the trouble to become a member of the community rather than taking the slightly underhanded approach you have done. But when I came to a forum thread and discover that my time has been wasted answering questions that are not to actually help some one, I get irked. Which is why I had not continued this thread until I just couldn't resist it.

    That help?

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      What is lazy about a.) trying to do it myself first. b.) asking someone I know who might know and THEN c.) if those 2 didn't work, asking in the forum? Isn't that the way it ought to go? And you're wrong - they ARE for my benefit. First and foremost. Secondly, for me to convey to others who need help.

      I'm sorry it irks you that I'm titling it Harnessing Traffic from Hub Pages. Don't get why you're mad, but ok. Should it be titled, "How to make $3,171 a month from Hub Pages" so that all the desperate make money hungry people believe it? No...I want to talk about traffic, but that's a tentative title anyway.

      I have been nothing but upfront about the fact that I am NOT an expert. Read this:
      http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/topic … _ID=235061

      Instead of ranting to me and being mean, why not educate me in a kinder way, Mark? Jenny, embetica, maddie, and others seem to be able to do this. I'm glad you pointed out my cholesterol Hub. The rules are not clear about clickbank, etc. hidden amazon links? I'm just learning, so if there's something awry, flag it and I'll learn, but MARK - you're missing the point of my eBook.

      The point is to learn this stuff so that others AVOID making the same mistakes. In fact, I got requests from my own customers asking me to do a book on Hub Pages because they were confused, angry that their hubs were shut down (meaning unpublished) without knowing why, etc. What is so bad about someone learning all of this so they can explain it to others so they don't have to sit in a forum and ask endless questions to learn?

      >>As a matter of fact, your "Cooking for cholesterol ," hub breaks HPs terms of service in that it has more than 2 links to the same site in it and you have an amazon affiliate link hidden in the text rather than using an amazon capsule. Along with another clickbank affiliate link in the text. You are attempting to avoid hubpages' rules and are trying to work the system. Do we really want a bunch more people here doing that? Not me thanks.<<

      See? I had no idea about clickbank before. Is it against TOS or just make you ineligible for flagship? Because Jason only told me that it makes you ineligible for flagship and he obviously knows I'm using a CB link.

      >>I could have respected you a lot more if you had taken the trouble to become a member of the community rather than taking the slightly underhanded approach you have done. But when I came to a forum thread and discover that my time has been wasted answering questions that are not to actually help some one, I get irked. Which is why I had not continued this thread until I just couldn't resist it.<<

      Actually, I joined 6 months ago and did get help here. I can't change your mind if you feel I'm not here to learn for myself, but I can tell you that you're not me so you don't know. I AM here to learn for me. AND for my customers. BOTH.

      >>That help?<<

      Sure did smile

  32. eBook profile image53
    eBookposted 9 years ago

    Hi Tiffany and All respected Hubbers

    I'm chipping in here with a short and hopefully sweet take on what I've read here.
    I do not frequent the Warrior Forum as to be fair I do not like forums and find them to
    be a waste of ones precious time...just my personal opinion.

    Tiffany Dow on the other hand has been recommended to me personally from a highly
    respected member of the Internet Community in General...I mean World Wide, not just here
    on hubpages...therefore I went to see what Tiffany was all about.

    She's a genuine person with genuine morals and is genuinely trying to create useful
    products that can actually enhance a persons understanding, business and overall self
    by doing what she does best...as she has already explained in the above post.

    I personally love hubpages and the people in this community, it has been a whole new
    experience for me too, as some of the Hubs I've read have really opened my eyes to some
    really wonderful experiences that people have in their lives.

    This is probably one of the...lets say...upperclass websites where intellectuals congregate,
    so it is only to be expected when someone new arrives that a shield goes up around Hubbers
    to scutinise that newcomer.

    Please do not judge Tiffany by her Cover, let her prove her worth,
    and you will see her morals and standards will live up to your Hublife expectations.

  33. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    LOL

    I am not ranting. You asked my why I was irked and I told you. I think you misrepresented yourself in the first place. Simple as that. You should see me when I am ranting big_smile

    All the answers you need are here:

    http://hubpages.com/faq/
    http://hubpages.com/profile/darkside

    But the question you are really trying to answer is:

    "How do I get around the hubpages' rules against promoting non-sharing revenue streams so I don't get my hubs shut down?"

    Correct?

    I will answer that question for $1,000. Payable in advance. big_smile

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Check's in the mail. But seriously, no. Not correct!

      You're assuming something that's not right. I NEED to know the rules and let me clarify something. I look at the FAQ page and here's what it says about overly promotional:

      >>linking repeatedly to the same site within a hub or across many hubs
      including links to a page that contains largely the same content as your hub
      linking to products or services unrelated to a Hub's content
      including more than 2 links to any one domain
      short "teasers" with links to "read more" at another site
      including promotional links on content that is unoriginal (i.e. not exclusive to HubPages); promotional links can only be included on content that is exclusive to HubPages <<

      So I don't see where I can't promote no-sharing revenue streams. This is the type of stuff you assume everyone knows. It's not clear. It it against TOS to have a link to your own site where you make money? All it says in another area is "to dubious products" - what does THAT mean?

      Gamergirl said: >>If you put half the effort you've spent trying to argue why you should be able to draw in spammers and get rich quick kids to Hubpages on actually WRITING and IMPROVING Hubs, your hubs wouldn't suck.  But then, what is good for a community of writers doesn't matter when there's money to be made, right?<<

      Well I know my writing's good. The improvement comes from things I'm needing help on, which is why I ask here, but of course, I'm a yucky marketer - ick! So I shouldn't be allowed to ask for help, right?

      The only reason I'm "arguing" is because false things are being said about me. I have a right to defend myself, even if you won't give me a chance. Just judge ahead of time wink

  34. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    If you put half the effort you've spent trying to argue why you should be able to draw in spammers and get rich quick kids to Hubpages on actually WRITING and IMPROVING Hubs, your hubs wouldn't suck.

    But then, what is good for a community of writers doesn't matter when there's money to be made, right?

  35. Misha profile image73
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    I think it is your fault. This has nothing to do with fear of marketers. This has all to do with the fact that in this thread you are essentially collecting charity and then sell it for profit. That is why I have an issue with what you are doing here...

  36. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    Tiff,

    I think you should offer this ebook as a Hubpages *exclusive* - FREE, just like the information you're using to research your ebook has all been provided to you for FREE.

    But that's just me.  I mean, it's not like we're charging you for the information you came here to get.

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      And a lot of it WILL be free. But not all. I will have email autoresponders,
      blog tips, etc. You have the freedom to answer or not when and if I need help.
      tiff wink

  37. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    K. Hopefully my last post on this topic - I have to get back to finishing up the eBook.

    I'm not going to continue worrying about the community being angered over who I am or what I'm doing with this site. I know my own intentions, and that's all that matters.

    If you feel like posting a reply when and if I need a question answered, go for it. If not, don't.

    If you want to be on the list of Hubbers who build hubs for people, send me your info. If not, don't.

    I'll be finishing up the Hub eBook as soon as I feel confident that I know what the site is all about.

    I do deeply appreciate the crash course for my own knowledge - even Mark's rough edges educated me that I might be doing something wrong on my cholesterol Hub, so I will check into it.

    Sorry if I stunk up the place. Hopefully I'll come out of this smelling better in the end once you see what I do with it.
    tiff wink

  38. Mary K Weinhagen profile image76
    Mary K Weinhagenposted 9 years ago

    I happen to be on Tiffany's list... and can happily attest to her being one of the 'good guys'.
    I'm also a very new hubber and when I heard about this conversation going on I thought it wise to come check it out before... gasp!... I inadvertently commit a fatal faux pas in this community where I am newly learning the ropes.

    And Tiffany's comment about using a clickbank link has already served me! ;-)

    I feel it worth noting that while I AM on Tiff's list... and I AM brand new to HubPages... I'm not here because I heard about it first through Tiffany. Yet finding her here when I arrived was a delightful surprise as I know and trust her contributions to be very worthwhile.

    I also want to thank all of you for participating here... it gives me insight (however limited ;-)) into the culture here at HubPages. A valuable thing indeed when there are so many places to spend time and energy on the web. Not one for snap 'judgments' and I am clear I choose to spend my time at communities with people and resources that support creative contribution ringing with authenticity... so far, HubPages seems to deserve the buzz it's receiving around being just that!

    ~~Mary K

  39. tboyd profile image50
    tboydposted 9 years ago

    Wow!

    I understand what’s going on here perfectly.  This reminds me of good ole’ office snobbery where middle managers… afraid for their jobs… don’t want to train the new guy. 

    First of all, what’s wrong with someone asking questions in a forum wanting to get things right?  We’re all here to get the highest rankings both on Hubpages and within the search engines.  If you’re here to just create expressively then you’ll be fine.  You’ll still have your argument.  The fact of the matter is though that Hubpages doesn’t have to be a place for one purpose and one purpose only.  Of course nobody wants Spammers, that’s a given, and for such great thinkers here on Hubpages I would think that you guys wouldn’t pick such easy low hanging fruit in your arguments.

    I think it’s very interesting that you seem to be fighting against your own purpose anyways.

    People are already spamming Hubpages like crazy, many not purposely even, but accidentally because like Tiff pointed out, the TOS are just a bit ambiguous.  Of course there are those doing it on purpose, that’s the nature of this beast called the internet.  In every community you have your good and your bad people…and you certainly can’t go attacking one citizen for those people’s actions.

    Tiff has a tremendous reputation for being highly ethical.  Even her sales pages are tremendously softer than most out there.  She goes the extra mile for her customers, and she gives high quality info that works.   

    I think that the fact that she’s taken the high road in the first place to come in here and get to know the community and interact with you guys tells me she’s here for the right reasons already. 

    Those spammers that you guys seem to be so worried about are the drive-by’s of Hubpages.  They don’t come in and introduce themselves; they SPAM the place – usually under a fictitious name – and then get the hell out of dodge.  Tiff’s here asking how the best of Hubpage users ( I was going to say hubbers but I don’t want to be attacked by the snobby upper managers Embitica and Mr. Knowles) do things the right and most effective way.

    Bitching about Tiff charging for the information is another way you guys are wrestling with your own opinions.  Charging for the info is way more of a filter than simply giving the information away for free on Hubpages, so that EVERYONE and their mothers can then use that information and come in and SPAM even more.

    Somebody said Darkside should be the one to write a book on Hubpages if anyone should.  Well, it seems that Darkside hasn’t written that book, so what the hell is everyone supposed to do, sit around and wait for him to do it, and then breathe a great sigh of relief “ahhhh, now I can write my book”.   

    Nope doesn’t work like that. 

    Mr. Knowles, I’m sorry…you seem to be a bright guy, but the epitome of a snobby guy who’s afraid that his position is sliding with each new person that comes in.  That my friend is a very short sided view on life, and you should realize that there’s enough room for everyone here to do well, and bring value to the community. 

    You say you’re mad that Tiff didn’t come in here and present herself and her purpose.  So I suppose she was supposed to look you up and ask for your direct approval.  And exactly who the hell are you?  I never noticed on the home page of Hubpages where it says

                                           “Mark Knowles’ Hubpages”.

    You’re mad that she didn’t ask for your approval and you probably would have been the first to say “how dare her” if she had.  There’s plenty of room my friend for everyone.

    Embitica, I really don’t know what your problem is.  I detect some jealousy of Tiffany’s success and notoriety over at the other forum, and now she’s come over to where you’ve got some juice and that’s threatening to you.  You need to look inside, and it’d probably do you good to actually listen and learn. 

    Hubpages is a great place, and seems to have a very strong community among those who actually are doing things right.  In that case instead of attacking you should actually be embracing someone who has a pretty powerful voice in a community that’s much larger than this over at the Warrior forum and beyond and let her know what you would like her to include, much like Jenny has done.  Two thumbs up to you Jenny!

    I’m not one to voice my opinion very often at all, but I can’t take seeing someone attacked when it’s undeserved.  I do consider Tiffany a good friend, but the truth is, I would have written the same post for any one of you had I seen an outright attack like I have here. 

    And don’t worry, as long as Lissie and Mark are out there rapidly pulling the flagging trigger, things will be just fine!

    Good day,
    Troy

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      LOL - You joined just to post this? hehe.

      What position? Make your mind up - Either I am afraid my position is under threat or you don;t have to ask : "who the hell are you?"

      There are no positions here - or at least none that I can see being threatened by yet another IMer who wants to skirt the rules. Simple fact is if you read the faq and accept the spirit rather than the letter of the rules, you will never run into a problem.

      I understand what's going on here too. big_smile

      Goodbye.

  40. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    Mark - help me understand this..

    someone who's posted a couple thousand times on some forum or another, who has joined various sites and then within a few days or weeks wants to get all the "insider info" she can so she can turn around and try to make money off of other people's knowledge.. who thought it was ok to create a "hub" using only amazon capsules, is now being defended and heralded as some kind of guru?

    Am I getting this right?  Have I missed something?  When did Hubpages turn into Marketer Central?

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      False.

  41. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Darkside taught me a new word last time this happened:

    sock puppets big_smile

  42. Misha profile image73
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    yep, absolutely smile

  43. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    Sock puppets?  Ohh! Do tell!

    1. profile image0
      Mark's Number Oneposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Sock puppets are sneaky second personas designed to make it look as though lots of people share the same opinion big_smile

  44. Misha profile image73
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    Can you guess who puppeteer is? big_smile

  45. PSP profile image58
    PSPposted 9 years ago

    Having known Tiffany since she became a (gasp) Internet marketer, I have the greatest respect for her integrity.  For those of you (and there are many) who feel that IM is a 4-letter word, continue on with your humdrum existence; get up Monday through Friday to go to your JOB (to me that's a 4-letter word that stands for Just Over Broke); and continue in the rat race, barely staying ahead.  That is until your JOB quits on you.  But then there's always welfare, isn't there?  Isn't there?

    1. Misha profile image73
      Mishaposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      LOL and this is from someone who was not able to get their hubscore above 75 after 12 months big_smile You definitely need professional help in this area wink

  46. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    Hmmm.

    Let's see..

    How about I go and take all of Tiffany's information presented off of Warrior and.. make an ebook out of it to sell for 47 bucks?

    Yeah, that'd be awesome!

    No. Wait, that'd be cheap and wrong.

    Vice versa with what's being attempted here between Tiffany and Hubpages.

    Edit:  Misha!! Have you seen that person's hub?  It's got 80-billion tags.  I'm not kidding.

    1. PSP profile image58
      PSPposted 9 years ago in reply to this

      Not only would it be wrong, it would be illegal.  It's called plagiarism.

  47. PSP profile image58
    PSPposted 9 years ago

    When did entrepreneur become a 4-letter word?

  48. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    Y'know what.. this is getting kind of redundant.

    I'm going to go read hubs and hope that when I come back to the forums, this whole thing is done.

  49. WeddingConsultant profile image69
    WeddingConsultantposted 9 years ago

    Mark's number one? haha couldn't you have come up with a more creative name Mr. Knowles?

  50. profile image0
    Mark's Number Oneposted 9 years ago

    This is my number one sock puppet big_smile

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