Why are we "Americans" so damned sensitive about the way something is verbally expressed?
Why not tell it like it is!?
I am all for telling it like it is!
Being PC is generally a bunch of bullsh*t.
Then again, here at HP, if being PC keeps the dollars coming in then you better believe the powers-that-be will see that you remain PC-LOL!
Its the same here in britain qwark. We have to watch everything we say and do, I dont care to be honest I always speak my mind but in the society here we still have to retain tact and diplomacy lol
Freedom of speech is our human right but its still denied in some cases.
I also believe that people should be able to express themselves without worrying about whether what has been said is politically correct. I think that sensitivity has gone to far for instance........
We do not have garbagemen they are they are sanitation engineers. (pc)
"In Seattle they get paid as much and sometimes more than mechanical and electrical engineers." (not pc)
What I said in the quotaions is considered politically incorrect as well as insensitve. A person who has an opinion, however, cannot express it if they keep themselves pc in a situation like this.
When a person is purposely hurtful with their language it should not be morally all right. I also dont think it is all right to use derogatory langauge that will catagorize a person by race, gender, sect., ect. This is not expressing our opinion but purposely trying to hurt some one or stratify ourselves.
There are also gray areas like some gender discussions, weight, age, ect. We must consider our audience when we speak.
I do agree, though, that we need to be able to better express ourselves.
.................but not in a blatently offensive and hurtful manner.
I am an American and I would rather someone just say what they think. I do not have to agree with it or even like it but I do respect the honesty.
Ive been working on my political correctness, so far I ain't doing too well!
Political correctness is over rated at least when people are honest there is very little confusion about where they stand on any given topic.
PC is for people who don't have the nad to express the truth. I have failed miserably at PC. And I think people are gettin a little thin skinned these days
PC started out as a good idea for a particular moment in time, to encourage awareness that words can do harm. It became a blunt object that social crusaders wield to drive honesty into hiding, under some delusion that if you don't hear racism or sexism it magically vanishes. I prefer knowing where potential problems are, frankly.
Wouldn't you rather know there is a snake in the room because you see it sliding across the floor than discovering it as its fangs sink into the soft flesh where your achilles tendon is?
I've often felt that PC is practised by guilty people trying to guilt trip others into feeling as guilty as they are
I know a few who would fall under this category.
Although, I would say that anyone who tells you they have no prejudices at all, against anyone, no matter what category, classification or stratification, is either lying or doesn't know what prejudice means.
Sometimes we discover one in ourselves we didn't know we had, and feel guilty for it. I think the real trick is to be aware of this human instinct to categorize and be open to recognizing it in ourselves and fixing it. Be open to recognizing it in others and helping them to see that we aren't what they fear us to be.
Why should we fix what is not broken? Prejudice is a survival skill.
We just need to understand its place - as a quick and dirty rule of thumb that helps us to forecast what to expect from a stranger.
Does that apply to those stereotypes that apply to Russians?
Oh absolutely. I guarantee you can make a small fortune betting on Russian strangers being able to drink more alcohol than American strangers. Does not mean every Russian drinks more than every American though
That's by far the most innocuous stereotype about Russians.
I, for the record, think the vast majority of stereotypes are bunk, and that you should evaluate each person on his/her own actions.
Yeah, most stereotypes are false. Evaluating a person on their actions is the best way to go about it.
Also: The highest beer drinking is surprisingly Luxembourg. Russia isn't even on the list.
So stereotypically, stereotypes are wrong? I would also presume that generally speaking you reject generalizations?
I agree, as long people remember to put as much effort into remembering the "it's quick and dirty" as they do accepting it as a "survival skill" AKA "natural."
Absolutely right. Where the PC brigade go wrong is that they fail to stop at examining their own behaviour and go off on a moral crusade which often ends up stifling any attempt at honest debate or sensible decision making.
I agree with Shades. We have gone far away from what was first considered to be "politically correct"-- an effort to avoid being offensively rude.
Tactfulness can be helpful, but people can be offended with the truth, even in the most polite terms.
Having worked in elementary school classrooms for many years, I have personally limited my vocabulary to words that are PG acceptable, but I am not offended (In fact I would be grateful) if someone yelled at me, "Don't step on that F***IN
I'm with you!
Too many times I've been told I'm much to "candid." My response is TOUGH! If it's too hot in the kitchen ..."F***KIN" LEAVE! :-)
Have people been too candid - in a different way, naturally - for your taste?
We're, to my way of thinking, cowtowing to the religious.
Screw the sensitivity of those who believe in mythical gods and have a disgusting history of death and destruction! Lets get real! Accept reality as it is! Speak of it as it really exists!
Words are just that... words! They cannot hurt unless one allows them to!
Toughen up! Tell it like it is!
Yeah! We should be free to tell the self-obsessed, atheist simpletons what ego-maniacal blockheads with a history of death and destruction they are without worrying about their feelings even though it threatens to puncture the surface and demonstrate that there is nothing within.
You tell 'em!
Politically correct is an accurate term. It's what politicians have to say in order to get elected.
For instance, it is politically correct to say you're a God-fearing Christian and you're against gay marriage, no matter what your true feelings are on the matter.
Not what some would consider political correctness, but they're misunderstanding the term.
I always tell it like it is, and I'm an American. But you're right. I can't stand "politically correct" obsessiveness. It's retarded.
(See? I said "retarded", and that is totally unpolitically correct!)
Unless Barack Obama say's it, then its totally ignored!
Do you use words like "black," "hispanic," "female," or "gay" as all-purpose adjectives for something negative?
Even though it wasn't to ME I would like to respond.
I generally do not use words associated with race as all-purpose adjectives for something negative BUT I have been known to use "female" and "gay" in that way.
Women use the word "male" the same way at times and I once wrote an entire piece on how I feel about the word "gay". I really do NOT care that kids use it as a negative word now. The homosexual community took the word from the heterosexual community and now--generations later--the straight community is taking it back through their children. . . albeit with yet another definition.
Who cares really? We empower words. They have no power on their own. We give it to them.
"I generally do not use words associated with race as all-purpose adjectives for something negative BUT I have been known to use "female" and "gay" in that way."
Ok, so you feel that being female or gay is a negative condition, right?
To answer your question directly: No
To expound on that answer:
We ALL make fun of the opposite gender and I don't care about the whole "gay" issue because of reasons stated earlier.
if one group can change a word then so can another.
You answered "No" but the rest of your response indicated "yes."
You pretty much asked a "yes" or "no" question. Between those two I chose "no".
The rest was just additional, generalized information not necessarily meant to apply to me specifically.
I don't consider guys complaining about or joking about girls and vice-versa as something that is meant to be an actual insult. I would say it's more of a "tease".
I will not comment on the whole use of the word "gay" again. I wrote a piece on that a long time ago and hopefully you saw it.
i think there is a big difference between trying to really insult and offend someone as opposed to just fun, harmless teasing; know what I mean?
If people have a genuine respect for others, there would be no need for political correctness. After all, that is it's basis. The role of PC was to make people more aware of various speech patterns that they may or may not have understood were offensive. Now that awareness, for the most part, has be raised, PC has outlived it's usefulness.
In the end though, it all comes down to respect for others.
Words like "retarded" were inadvertently offensive. Originally, PC was not about protecting people's feelings. Unfortunately the movement came about at the same time that people felt all kids should get trophies, just for playing. So PC devolved into something creepy...
everybody is supposed to win, nobody should lose, and GOD FORBID somebody gets offended **shudder**
yeah yeah yeah.
There really isn't a good atheist equivalent for that one. I was hoping nobody would call me out.
I thought about "heaven forbid" but that is even worse.
Nobody on this forum feels any guilt for what has happened in this country the past 250 years. You should feel guilt and shame. Then there should be immediate reparations.
You are a very small, narrowminded hubber!
That was an inane remark! :-)
Not at all. In fact, that is the basis for most of the rhetoric used by liberals and leftists to justify their arguments.
Then what you are saying is that all inhumanity to man, down thru the ages, should be considered and reparations made to all...?
Man is profoundly involved in his ongoing evolution.
There are extant people who are experiencing far worse than those in our 200+ years of growth ARE experiencing.
It's just the "way of man."
(hey, he's just telling it like it is )
Telling it like it is happens to be more American if you follow the tradition of the Western which is a genre as American as you can get. There is oft times something uplifting about being honest and straight with people. Dodging around the truth is weak and watery and is producing a generation of people who can't see any profit in talking out differences. If you can't be honest and talk out your differences then there is violence.
I believe that it started in the universities this political correctness caper. The general idea was that if we can just stop people from saying all the bad words we can stop them thinking the bad words and then stop them from doing the bad things because they can no longer think of them. This is real fuzzy logic at best. It would be lovely if things were this simple but they are not. It is incredibly dangerous in fact to manipulate or try to manipulate people on this level. There are those out there who, when they cannot express themselves verbally or in writing, will turn to fists or worse to get their message across.
People in my country can no longer talk freely about immigration and violence has come about from that. People in my country can no longer say what they feel about someone else's religious beliefs encroaching upon freedoms people have enjoyed for more than half a century and there has been violence as a result. Allowing people to talk out their differences and possibly arrive at a mutual understanding seems often the best way forward. Talk straight with me and at least I will know where you stand. Dodge and dart around the truth or say nothing and I have no idea what is going on in your head. Like most people I am not a mind reader.
Words can do harm sure but not saying or saying in a wishy-washy way can do a hell of a lot more harm.
Political correctness has always been a bad idea as ideas go.
I am on Jonathan Swift's side. Sometimes you have to shock people with the truth to get positive action happening. When men, women and children were dying from famine in Ireland he attacked the general public in England over the issue because England had the power to do something about it and English politicians were sitting on their hands and doing nothing. He was extremely brutal in his writing but why wouldn't he be? People were dying and he wasn't going to be speaking or writing softly about it. He wanted English people to feel ashamed and to take up action to push their representatives into doing what he saw as what was right. By god he was savage but I admire him for it. My thoughts at any rate.
I applaud your thoughts and words!
Brilliant Ron - you hit it dead on. My hat's off to you
The English were instrumental in the starvation of tens of thousands of Irish in the 19th Century during the potato famine. As an Irishman (partly so), I demand reparations from the Crown. This is the correct thing to do.
Further, for over 300 years North African pirates raided villages along the European coast. They took white men, women, and children back to North Africa to be sold as slaves. I demand reparations from Morocco, Algeria, Libya and Egypt for those transgressions.
lolol...you are a small minded "dreamer." :-)
Well Swift was writing in his own time which was the 19th Century and trying to get the English to do the right thing at that time about the Irish situation. A lot of Irish migrated to the USA and to Australia because of the famine caused by a potato blight. All the English had to do was send grain from northern Ireland to southern Ireland to help the starving people. In some of the years of famine while people were starving to death grain from northern Ireland was actually being shipped to England. Swift thought this was disgraceful.
I absolutely hate the 'political correctness movement', if that's what you can call it. I have written a hub about my take on it.
I suppose 'sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me' has gone by the wayside, apparently a very long time ago.
My favourite quote, usually attributed to Voltaire is (though actually first uesed by Evelyn Beatrice Hall in 1906)"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Political correctness in UK has gone mad - I think there's a new hub there!
Lets have some non pc jokes.
A fat bird served me food in McDonalds at lunch time, she said ' sorry about the wait ' I said ' don't worry fatso, you'll lose it eventually '
An old PC joke.
A new teacher coming into a class room says:"I'll just write my name with some white chalk..."
Little girl's hand shoots up and teacher gives her permission to speak.
Girl: Sir! SIR! You can't say that!. It's racist. it's Caucasian chalk, Sir!"
"Right! I'll just write my name with Caucasian chalk on the Black board."
Little girl: "Sir! SIR! Racist! It's an African-American board."
"Right! African-American board...Oh I don't have any Caucasian chalk after all! I suppose I will have to use yellow chalk."
"SIR! SIR! SIRE!"
Just one more before I go.She how must be obeyed is calling.
I've just come out of the 'chippy' with a meat and potato pie, large chips, mushy peas & a jumbo sausage. A poor homeless man sat there and said 'I've not eaten for two days' I told him 'I wish I had your f***ing will power'
The True...You Want THE TRUTH
YOU CAN'T HANDLE.....well we all know where that came from (sorry just wanted to inject a bit of humor)
Ladies and gentlemen we can not tell it like it is primarily in my own opinion of course is one word-Lawyers. But wait they are not fully to blame. When one of our pressure little offsprings are up in school cusing out the teacher, fighting with other kids, there are those parents that can't see there little darling being anything but victimized by the system so the contact-(oh what a surprise- A Lawyer.)
If someone tailgates you down the street because they can't find anything else entertaining to do then an accident happens we do we really think they're going to say "Well office seeing has how I have no life I thought it would be fun to harass those strangers and hey I went to far and hit their car."
Telling it like it is use to mean we were people of integrity, we had dignity. Now you can see us in the bleachers one half of our bodies colored and wearing cheese on our head.
Telling it like is-oh those days are go for the most part.
I think people want to be free to speak until it's about them. So PC is just to avoid the circumstance where you lash out on somebody for reacting to what you said.
Example, "I'm sorry we are not hiring women for this job."
"You're discriminating on me"
"I'm not, I'm just telling you, deep sea drilling is a man's job."
"That's sexism, your company is anti-feminist"
(getting annoyed) "It's nothing personal,we need men for this job!"
A PC equivalent would be " I'm sorry, we are not hiring people of your profile as of now" "we will put your application on active file."
"oh, ok, thank you for the opportunity"
PC is just a way to reduce conflict in the work place, because lets face it there are better things to do than bicker..so walk on eggshells for a few minutes and everybody could go on with their lives. BY all means be honest. But the extent all depends on how much headache you're willing to take on.
I totally agree with Cecilia - why denigrate or insult people? If is it PC to use non-discriminatory language and show a little respect to those who are different, then I'm all for PC. Being PC really has nothing to do with being dishonest.
Don't think I really agree with you. A little respect is fine and good, but it often goes way too far with PC. For instance the term at one time was "nigger". Then negro, then black, then colored, then african-american. The only one showing disrespect is the first, and at the time of use was not really a disrespectful term even then. Just a statement of fact. What are the others all for? They all mean the same and none are derogatory - indeed, all were used to be respectful at the beginning.
As far as "different", you mean the man in the red shirt is different than the man in the green shirt? No. You mean (and I'm assuming here) handicapped or deficient in some way. Calling them "different" merely throws another obstacle in the communication process.
Some examples of the dishonesty of PC talk:
undocumented immigrant. A lie - immigrants have documentation by definition. They are illegal aliens.
Chemically challenged. That might be a diabetic. But actually is little more than your neighborhood crack head. "Chemically challenged" is a term to soften the action and make the listener think it is something else.
Sanitation Engineer would seem to mean someone who is well trained (college or more) in the disposal of our nation's garbage. But usually it refers to the garbage man emptying your trash can. Just another attempt to make it sound like something it is not.
This is not to say that some terms are not derogatory and should not be used. Homosexual and lesbian are not derogatory terms, just statements of fact. "Queer", on the other had, IS derogatory. It was used to mean not only homosexual, but different and therefore undesirable. Gay is used now, but is also becoming a "bad" word - it also means "stupid" ("That's a gay thing to do.") and is a reflection of using "gay" in the same manner as "queer".
Having said all that, the PC idea is worse than useless. A listener can usually tell if a speaker is being insulting by the general topic, the context, body language, etc. On the other hand, PC talk is often used to either lie or get the listener to believe something else than what is actually being said. Just do away with it and communicate honestly. If you mean the poor unfortunate people who come into the US to try and make a better life for themselves without bothering to follow the US laws, then say that! Don't say undocumented immigrants as that makes a lie out of the term immigrants and gives the listener the impression that the people here illegally are, in fact, immigrants.
The term GAY can be broken up to read Good As You. Also before that part of society made the word their own it meant happy in a lively sort of way. Homosexual was dismissed by the GAY community as too much a medical term to do with what the medical profession saw as a psychological problem. Queer has always meant unusual in an unpleasant way. Bent means out of shape just as straight means having the right shape. And so it goes...
All words can become bad words as suggested by wildness. At the same token all words can become good words.
The friends I have in America call themselves Yanks and expect me to do the same. If I called them Americans they'd take it as me being cold and formal with them. For someone who fought in the 2nd World War or in Korea Yank is appropriate because that's what the soldiers were called and there is still a certain pride that can be derived from this nick name "The Yanks are Coming and they won't be back until its over over there." The song of course comes from WW1 but it still means something even to this day and it was CREATED by those Yanks.
The term Pom comes from cricket and I still call my English friends Poms because they prefer it that way. Both Australians and the British love cricket. It is a national obsession in summer and I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I refuse to bow to political correctness when it comes to how I address my overseas friends.
I'm sorry to say but being politically correct stems from the legal system. Here are just a few terms from a website listed below:
semiautomatic handgun - Politically correct term: sidearm
Guns cause crime- Politically correct term: Guns stop crime
They should take away all the guns Politically correct term: Bad guys first
There are more terms at the following website:
Political Correctness is over rated, as stated above. It began back in the 80's, I believe, because a few disabled people were sick and tired of being considered 'handicapped'. After all, what is a handicap? A handicap in golf deals with the score (can't remember which way it goes - it either increases or decreased according to your ability) Some 'handicapped' people felt the word Disabled was a more accurate term as they felt their legs may be unable to move but there was nothing wrong with their arms or brains!
I personally think Political Correctness became a mixed battle cry for those who wish to change vocabulary and for those who wish to effect positive change.
Can someone provide an example of actual (not imagined) political correctness that has crossed the line of being absurd, and what you would have proposed instead?
Ok, I'll step up: "retarded"
It's supposed to be politically incorrect because people who have mentally disabled children get offended by the term.
A. The term "mentally retarded" is old and has been replaced by numerous other terms more specific to actual metal conditions with unique symptom sets, etc., leaving it perfectly acceptable as a term for conveying/describing things that are, well, retarded.
B. The offensive term "retarded" is not even the phrase "mentally retarded," the latter requiring the modifier to explain what kind of retarded is being discussed (as opposed to retarded timing in your car, etc) (see #3)
C. retarded (from the OED): 1. a. The fact of being slowed down or delayed with respect to action, progress, or development; lateness, slowness; (also) a delay or slowing down
2. In full retard of the tide. = RETARDATION n. 2b(b).
3. In a motor vehicle: the action of delaying the generation of the ignition spark; an adjustment or device for doing this.
4. orig. and chiefly N. Amer.
a. (a) Educ. and Psychol. A person displaying or characterized by developmental delay or learning difficulties (cf. RETARDATION n. 4a) (now rare, not the preferred term); (b) Educ. a child whose educational progress or level of attainment has fallen behind that expected for his or her age (cf. RETARDATION n. 4b) (now rare, not the preferred term).
b. colloq. and slang (freq. derogatory and offensive, esp. in recent use). A person (or occas. thing) regarded as being mentally or physically deficient, stupid, or incompetent.
Recorded in U.S. oral use in 1959 in J. E. Lighter's Hist. Dict. Amer. Slang.
The use of this to describe children is long gone. The OED shows the transition in the '60s from a medical condition to one that, and I quote the OED here, "replaces 'stupid head' as an insult."
The term stupid and idiot and likely others I'm too lazy to find have similar origins. To be offended is to disallow the acknowledgment of substandard actions or or decisions, whether for humor, conveyance of an idea, or for insult.
Just my opinion, but you asked for an example. I'm sure someone can come up with an anecdote for how insulted they were in some instance and thereby justify disqualifying the 100 billion other times the word was used and not offensive at all in intent of the speaker or upon hearing by the audience.
I propose not caving in and, instead, defending the right of language to have meaning and for homophones to exist as homophones despite having origins that can be taken offensively when retroactive sensitivity is applied to etymology.
When I was a child, my grandfather said, "It ain't right the way they treat those n**" ... now, he was not using the "n-word" as a pejorative, it was the way he had always heard the word used. In fact, he was in support of the concept of racial equality.
As a child I knew that was a "bad word" ... I told him, "You can't say that" ... he said, "Well it ain't right!"
My grandmother then explained that the polite word was "Negro".
In my lifetime it has gone from "Negro" to "Colored" to "Afro-American" to "Black" to "African American" ...
The words keep changing because people are still judged by the color of their skin rather than the content of their character. When the word is said with a sneer, it doesn't matter what the word is.
The absurdity is that rather than addressing actual issues of character, the white liberal politicians, who in my opinion are the epitome of racism, keep changing the words rather than changing their hearts.
Changing the word not only does not change hearts, it slows change. My grandfather's heart was right, he used the "N" word. I've seen plenty of people use "African American" with more contempt.
As to my proposal ... maybe worry more about what I mean rather than which word I use, like my grandfather.
Same here in Georgia. The N word was used as a description of an ethnic group not as an insult in many cases. Sure it was occasionally used as an insult but not everyone. Not defending the use of the word, merely showing the difference in context by mostly older people.
But today most realize the insult it is perceived as by black people and is not as prevalent. I can't see the burden of trying to avoid insulting a downtrodden minority.
And avoiding getting your head handed to you.
I would find the term "Downtrodden Minority" to be far more condescending than the "N word".
It would imply to me the person saying it really thought I was inferior, he was just too polite to say so.
However, as I am not a member of a"downtrodden minority", it is perhaps, just speculation on my part. But as I only know how I would feel, I am responsible for my own words and behavior and must judge myself accordingly.
Deliberately insulting anybody is generally not a kind thing to do. To take insult when none is intended is just as unkind.
I once taught basic skills maths. My employer (local government) sent me on a course for which I had to write several assignments. On one of the assignments, my assessor told me that I couldn't write "brain storming" because that would be offensive to epileptics. I should write "thought showers" instead.
Haha, this was explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorm … _over_term
It helps to adjust your language based on what people actually say they find offensive or acceptable, not about what is imagined.
Agreed Empress, A great many epileptics wouldn't make the connection between brain storming and their condition but let's protect them anyway..
Thought showers, on the other hand, needs explaining every time you use it because it is not in common use.
Mind you someone could break it down into sprinkling thought rain for those who have barely a thought or two, light thought rain for maybe five or six thoughts, moderate thought rain for a dozen thoughts, heavy thought rain for lots and lots of thoughts, and kick up your heels its cats and dogs and thunder and lightning rain when everyone needs to take shelter from all the ideas zipping around and filling up the desks and waste paper baskets.
I agree with you Shadesbreath about the term 'retarded' (a word I would never, ever use towards a person with a mental disability).
And BDazzler, I agree that the way something's said can sound more offensive than the word itself, too. I have met people who prefer being called 'black' and others that prefer 'African-American' but I have never, ever met anyone offended when I used the 'wrong' term, just a polite "I prefer to be called 'African-American'" (for example). I don't mind changing based on what someone prefers, and I don't see what the big deal is about calling people what they want to be called.
Yeah, heck, depending on my mood, I may prefer "Dave" or "David" ... but in general I find that it is overly sensitive white people who get all upset over how I refer to someone. Whites correct me. Blacks usually laugh at me. (not in a bad way, it's just that Weird AL used me as an archetype when he recorded White and Nerdy ... it's all in good fun.)
OK, from now on please call me "Your Majesty"
Very well, "Your Majesty", just remember that you too, still have to go and take a dump and your crap stinks like everybody else's.
All Hail Tzar Misha!
I sometimes wonder about the correct term to use when I am writing about some of the people who belong to various native tribes in my area. I asked an 80-year-old woman who is a cultural interpreter in Yosemite National Park, if it was correct to refer to her as "Indian" or "Native American".
She said, "Different people have different preferences. I'm an 'American Indian' ".
Exactly. "Different people have different preferences." I have yet to meet an actual (not imagined) person who demanded that their preference be used comprehensively, although I understand that people who obsess about PC-ness imagine they're everywhere.
Political correct speech, just recently published a hub about it, but it is seriously lacking and should not be happening.
It degrades/weakens people, turning them into wimps and giving too many people a weak/soft backbone.
As a sales rep, I could always tell which accounts I was the most solid in by the insults they greeted me with. The worse their language, the more heinous their assessment of my products, services, morality, physical appearance or even my sexual tendencies, the more stable and safe that account was.
Any purchasing agent, manager or VP who treated me with polite respect and "proper" language was either a brand new account or one that still thought there was a better option.
Often the way Shadesbreath. I feel one of EmpressFelicity's thought showers with maybe a bolt or two of lighting thrown in coming on. Heaven forfend if we are brain storming here.
Yes I know Empress you haven't knocked brain storming. Just having a little fun here.
I hate political correctness, I am from Yorkshire, where there is little bulls**t.
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