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How do you encourage people to click on Adsense

  1. ns1209 profile image35
    ns1209posted 6 years ago

    I think I am doing OK on Hubpages and I even have started making a few Amazon sales every month.  However I can't seem to get people to click on my Google Adsense ads. 

    I am not getting vast amounts of traffic but enough to see how well I am doing and from a bit over 200 visits a day on average I may get 1 click! I was doing OK last month and earned a reasonable amount of money - nothing fantastic.   

    However even then my CTR was quite poor and this month less than 1 in 100 people are clicking on my adsense ads and when they do it is for ridiculously small amounts!

    Anyway I was going to ask you how you increase the CTR percentage and I will thank you for your replies in advance.

  2. 0
    ryankettposted 6 years ago

    Well my overall CTR is generally between 0.9% - 1.5%, and I earnt £441 from AdSense last month (about $662).

    It sounds to me like you need to work on increasing your traffic rather than your CTR, 200 visits a day isn't a great deal to play with.

    Have you taken the steps to learn how to make your hubs search engine friendly?

    Rather than worrying about how much you are going to earn from 200 daily page views, use your earnings to invisage how much you could earn from 1000 daily page views, and then work on achieving this.

    I take around 9000 AdSense impressions per day, so a 1%+ CTR over the course of a month serves me pretty well.

  3. gqgirl profile image83
    gqgirlposted 6 years ago

    Wish I was making remotly close to that ryankett. LOL I'm stuck like she is and I get really good traffic to my hubs, blogs, and websites. More than I thought I'd ever get. but like the post I'm only getting one or two click thrus and I'm usually ranked pretty high in the search engines and I can't even seem to figure out how to get amazon sales! smile

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      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It is far too early to judge the performance of your hubpages, after just 6 weeks. Many of my hubpages didn't begin to earn well for 3 or 4 months after publication. It requires a whole lot of patience.

      I never worry about the performance of my hubpages, I just concentrate on writing more. They are almost all failures to begin with, many of them are still failures, many of them will always be failures. But never write off a hubpage. My highest earning hubpage didn't make more than a few pennies in its first month.

  4. ns1209 profile image35
    ns1209posted 6 years ago

    Thanks for your responses

    Yes Ryan I have tried to make my hubs search engine friendly to a degree and have done a little backlinking and keyword research. I am sure I could improve significantly though.

    However that is encouraging that your CTR is only a little higher than mine! I will try and work on writing more hubs on profitable subjects still then and try to get more traffic.

    @gqgirl I know it is hard and quite strange isn't it.  In a way I get a lot more traffic than I would expect!

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      My CTR is negatively effected by a particular high traffic hub which has an individually very low CTR though, but its the law of averages. I have some hubs with a CTR of around 10%, some with a CTR of 0.1%.... just keep writing the hubs, I call my hubs 'free lottery tickets'. The more free lottery tickets you get, the more times you win a prize. Some free lottery tickets won't win.

      1. girly_girl09 profile image79
        girly_girl09posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Awesome way to think about writing hubs, very very true! Best analogy I've probably ever heard. big_smile You never know when someone will click on an Amazon link and throw down 1k on a new laptop!

        1. 0
          ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Glad that you like it smile

          Its my best way of explaining that 'luck' is always involved to at least a certain degree. You spend a lot of time picking your numbers, but sometimes you don't get any come back out of that damn machine wink

  5. Pcunix profile image90
    Pcunixposted 6 years ago

    I'm well under 1% and have over $700 so far this month (not from HP).   Listen to Ryan:  just keep writing.

  6. girly_girl09 profile image79
    girly_girl09posted 6 years ago

    You just need to make sure that your hubs have relevant ads. How do you do this? Before you write a hub, google the keyword phrase- if you see a lot of relevant ads on the side on google search, you're probably good to go. I don't bother with much keyword research anymore, I get bored and impatient and just google the main keyword and see if there are relevant ads. Although, I strongly recommend keyword research for beginners!

    Also, you have to target your hubs towards people who click on ads (older people do). After spending 30 mins browsing the web one day with my mom, I was shocked at how many ads she would click on (don't worry...not on my pub-id lol)

    Lastly, certain topics simply don't produce relevant ads that entice readers to click. Find topics that encourage people to click and you'll be golden. This is all through trial and error, of course.

    I only get around 1600 adsense impressions per day and that includes my personal blog, yet I have a healthy CTR, and make around $300 a month just from Adsense. I just told you how I achieved this, so good luck! big_smile

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I've seen a young teenager click on lots of ads too. Mostly those tacky shiny ones for 'free backgrounds' or 'free emoticons' or 'play games' etc etc.

      I used to despise those ghastly things, unless I realised that they can actually sucker a lot of people in. They are always low paying though, there isn't a whole lot that a 'free emoticons' site can sell...

  7. ns1209 profile image35
    ns1209posted 6 years ago

    That is a fantastic way of thinking of hubs Ryan!  Hopefully I will win the jackpot soon! Guess I will have to keep getting more free tickets then.

    Thanks for the tips and I will check out what adverts appear on google.  Also I will try to gear some hubs towards older people then. 

    On a slightly unrelated topic - who actually does click on google adverts - I know I don't!

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      People with AdSense accounts very rarely do. I certainly never click on them when displayed on Hubpages, for fear of reprisal.

      I would guess at maybe 1 a month, 2 a month at most, normally on Google Search rather than monetised content.

    2. brettb profile image71
      brettbposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Geeks rarely click on them either. I have however been reading up on purchasing psychology, and I have now discovered that you actually can make geeks click on ads.

      There are many different ways of approaching Internet money making. For me a high tech approach is working very well.

  8. TheQuestion profile image61
    TheQuestionposted 6 years ago

    why not focus more on having fun as opposed to intentionally changing your hubs so that you make a little money?
    i personally find it funny that some people who make a little money here don't even have a full grasp of the english language.
    i just think it would be a shame to compromise your vision and creativity in hopes of making a few more cents.

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this


  9. TheQuestion profile image61
    TheQuestionposted 6 years ago

    did you think i was being ironic?
    don't you think it's important to realize that you can compromise your integrity and creativity and still not see any real changes?
    someone said it best in another forum by referring to something benjamin franklin once said
    hope for the best but expect the worst. that way you'll never be disappointed.
    perhaps you could be careful about the changes you choose to make and not expect too much if you do make changes?

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      No, I thought that your post was ironic. In fact, I still think that your post is ironic.

      1. TheQuestion profile image61
        TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        trust me. i know that of which i speak.  i get actually paid to write articles--not for being an advertising affiliate--elsewhere.  i am here because i enjoy being here. 
        i am not an advertising affiliate and i never inted to become one since i get paid to actually write articles elsewhere.
        mind you, i understand that hp needs advertising income to stay online so i accept ads on my hubs as a neccessary evil.
        hp allows anyone to fill pages with text so that they have more places to place advertising.
        for people who only make money online by selling products and being advertising affiliates--that's great.
        i would rather not deal with all that.
        i would simply rather have fun here and not worry abot having to change things to possibly make a little money.
        have i made myself clear now?

        1. 0
          ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          TheQuestion, there are plenty of people on this site who "get actually paid" for their writing. There are hubbers who have had books published in print, there are former journalists, a particularly skilled former author, and at least two hubbers with degrees in English Literature.

          The irony, by the way, was your criticism of the English language skills of some Hubpages members. I find it difficult to believe that somebody who does not use capital letters when writing, even on their profile or hubpages, is capable of making a decent income by selling articles.

          I would be interested in precisely who it is that you sell articles to. Are they online publications or offline publications? Either way, their revenue streams are through advertising. Don't bite the hand which feeds you.

          I am 100% focussed on income on this site. I have still had 5 of my hubpages published in offline magazines, those magazines are sitting on a shelf right now. One of those 5 hubpages is my highest earning online article by far. I struggle to understand what it is exactly that you are trying to say, or trying to prove, but taking some sort of moral highground is not going to work.

          Selling articles is likely to be much less profitable than self-publication to somebody who knows how to search engine optimise. The only exception being national broadsheet newspapers, even then I have several hubs which have exceeded the highest broadsheet run rates per 1000 words. I hope that I have made MYSELF clear.

          1. TheQuestion profile image61
            TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            i am not looking for a fight or to be personally attacked.
            however, i do need to clarifiy a few things.
            i am well aware of the variety of people here.
            i cannot say how i know all about hp but i do; trust me.
            i myself have a significant writing resume.
            i do indeed use caps on my own hubpages but when i speak elsewhere i choose to use lower case.
            the poet e e cummings did the same thing by the way.
            carefully reread some of the posts before my first one here.
            you will find words that do not even exist.
            i am not going to make any personal attack here.
            there are people on hp who do not have a full grasp on the english language and in their cases it is NOT a style choice.
            you could say everything is money-related but that wasn't my point.
            my point is that i would rather just have fun here on hp and i also think that some people expect way too much from being an advertising affiliate because people who cannot prove their incomes get them all pumped up about getting rich here.
            i have been published and compensated for my writing since the 70s.
            mind you, since it's hard to prove anything here i am not interesrted in the claims of others nor in proving my own statements are true.
            it's the internet and anyone can say anything. getting a check or paypal payment for a specific article is "concrete" so to speak.  self-publishing involves a lot of other expenses or sharing with others and then there is no guarantee as to a specific amount of money only a percentage, correct?
            i have already made my point to the OP.

            1. 0
              ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              "there is no guarantee as to a specific amount of money only a percentage, correct?"

              A hubber gets 100% of the revenues recieved from any page impression which falls within their 60% share of page impressions. In other words, earnings are uncapped.

              "my point is that i would rather just have fun here on hp"

              That is fine, but you don't need to declare this to the community, or tell people other people how they should carry themselves. You want fun, others want money. Nobody cares about your money, you look after your own fun.

              "people expect way too much from being an advertising affiliate because people who cannot prove their incomes get them all pumped up about getting rich here."

              And some people make a full time living out of affiliate programs. I made $710 here on Hubpages last month, for pretty much nothing. You are more than welcome to verify this with a member of the Hubpages staff, they would have made approximately $473 from me. I have a real life job, working real life full time hours, this is just my pocket money. http://hubpages.com/hub/My-Hubpages-AdS … -Disclosed

              "I have been published and compensated for my writing since the 70s."

              The industry is changing a lot, offline magazines are dissapearing. You will not be the first to fail to embrace technological change. As advertisers switch their budgets online, the publishers move online.

              "self-publishing involves a lot of other expenses"

              I calculate my only expense to be $20 of extra electricity per month. My internet charges remain unchanged, as I do use it for everyday things. That is $710 in revenue, $695 profit. There are no expenses involved in online writing.

              "sharing with others"

              I am confused by this bit. It is possible to use your own hosting, your own domain, people choose not to because Hubpages provides a search engine friendly platform and a fast server. This is where their 40% is taken as, effectively, rent. A hairdresser in a salon pays rent for her chair. She could set up her own shop, but it takes a lot of time, a bit of money, and she finds that she the good location and existing client base of the shop makes it more profitable to continue renting her chair.

              It sounds like me that you are just struggling to embrace change.

            2. brettb profile image71
              brettbposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not a qualified software developer - I have no formal training at all in IT. Yet I created a $100,000 software company.

              The same goes for writers these days. Don't bother going on writing courses - just write!

              1. TheQuestion profile image61
                TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                anyone can say anything they want on the internet.
                can anyone write?  not really.  visit a public school sometime or just read some of the posts here online.
                it is nice to be encouraging though.

                1. 0
                  ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I would say that the vast majority of people can write, yes. Unless you care to provide me with examples.

                  You haven't really given anybody a good reason to take you seriously TheQuestion, there are talented hubbers on this site.

                  Here is one which you could only dream of being capable of emulating http://hubpages.com/hub/A-La-Carte-Chap … -Md-Cancun

                  Judging by your input so far, I wouldn't put you down as anything special.

                  1. TheQuestion profile image61
                    TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    cd, album . . . you choose the word.
                    i never took a survey so i do not know how many people get paid to actually write nor do i believe you took a survey either.
                    i never said that alone made me special.
                    as far as you know i already have won awards.  in fact i have won an award or two but that is besides the point.  this isn't personal.
                    why are you attacking me personally?
                    i am not attacking anyone personally.
                    i am spouting no rubbish.
                    i am simply saying that not everyone is capable of writing and that--again--no one gets rich on hp.
                    in fact, not everyone makes money here either.
                    i am not required to give you examples.
                    check on the statistics regarding reading and writing.
                    you are arguing with me simply because you wish to attack me personally.
                    there are plenty of people who cannot read or write.
                    there are plenty of people who cannot and do not get paid to actually write as well by your own admittance. 
                    there are more people in the world than the hundreds of thousands of people you claim get paid to write.
                    you know nothing of my writing beyond the 3 silly hubs i currently have published under this particular screenname so again why bother attacking me personally?
                    for all yo know i wrote that hub under another screnname.
                    again, i am not asking your opinion of the three hubs you see here under this particular screenname.
                    forget the personal attacks.
                    why not just agree with the facts?
                    not all people can read let alone write
                    not all people get paid to actually write
                    most people will never get rich on hp
                    people should have fun
                    that is all i am saying
                    i never once attacked you personally.

            3. Len Cannon profile image89
              Len Cannonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Ahh, man, I haven't seen the e.e. cummings argument on the internet since like 2000.

              Man, you ain't halfta use capitals on the forums, but your posts aren't art either.  And I bet e.e. cummings still used capital letters when he wrote a letter.

              1. TheQuestion profile image61
                TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                i was not arguing.
                i was simply letting someone know that the use of all lower case was intentional.
                i am not sure what "ain't hafta" means but i never said my posts were art nor did i solicit any reviews.
                if you actually research the e e cummings letter-writing question please be sure to post links as i would be willing to read the information if you are actually willing to do the research to back up your statement.
                i don't really care but it would certianlybe the least i could do if you made the effort.
                okay, i have to get back to writing that cd review i am getting paid to write.

                1. 0
                  ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  People still buy CDs?

                  There are hundreds of thousands of people who get paid to write. It does not make you special.

                  If you go and win a major literary prize, or write a bestselling novel, then come back and spout your rubbish then.

                2. Len Cannon profile image89
                  Len Cannonposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  "...am fighting—forwarded and backed by a corps of loyal assistants—to retranslate 71 poems out of typewriter language into linotype-ese.  This is not so easy as one might think;consider,if you dare,that whenever a typewriter "key" is "struck" the "carriage" moves a given amount and the "line" advances recklessly or individualistically.  Then consider that the linotype(being a gadget)inflicts a preestablished whole—the type "line"—on every smallest part;so that the words,letters,punctuation marks &(most important of all)spaces-between-these various elements,awake to find themselves rearranged automatically "for the benefit of the community" as politicians say.  Oddly,this malforming or standardizing process is technically called "justify"ing:thanks to it,the righthand margin of any printed page which has been "set" on a linotype has a neat artificial evenness—which the socalled world-at-socalled-large considers indispensable forsooth.  Ah well;you should see the army of the Organic marching against Mechanism with 10,000th-of-an-inch(or whatever)"hair-spaces";you should watch me arguing for two and a half hours(or some such)over the distance between the last letter of a certain word and the comma apparently following that letter but actually preceeding the entire next word;you should hear my printer's blasts against his "operator"(as is called the Slave of the Linotype)when said unfortunate playfully smashes the machine while "he's thinking of giving Rockyfeller a bomb or something"(like all "operators",or all that I've met,this bird is a communist).  But something tells me we'll succeed — ! (Letters 140-141)"

                  The only one that did not require a journal subscription immediately.

                  Now I'm off to write a news article. FOR MONEY!

                  1. 0
                    ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Writing for MONEY is so last century Len!

                    Only very special people get to join the writing for money club! And it is mandatory that they look down on affiliate marketers in order to retain membership!

    2. waynet profile image47
      waynetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Oh yeah, expecting the worst will always give you great results guaranteed everytime! big_smile

      By the way are you sure you sell articles with i instead of I and writing written work in that sort of format!

      1. TheQuestion profile image61
        TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        franklin was a wiser man than anyone here, wayne
        he said something like expect the worst/be prepared for the worst and hope for the best and that way you will never be disappointed
        i had to reread your question because you were perhaps in a bit of a hurry to tease me.  if i understand your question, i write normally when i get paid to write.

        1. waynet profile image47
          waynetposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Well that's ok then! all is well in the world...have a nice rest of the weekend!

  10. ns1209 profile image35
    ns1209posted 6 years ago

    I do actually enjoy making and writing hubs as long as they are on a vaguely interesting topic.  I have to admit I dislike backlinking but my main aim is to make some money here so I want to focus on making more money! 

    Remember people have different goals here: some for fun, some for money, some for traffic and most for a mixture of these reasons.

    Also if your point about writing properly was directed at me then you should check your own post!

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Don't worry, he will soon find that writing with no search engine traffic is not particularly fun. So then will begin the hunt for traffic, followed by the adoption of basic SEO techniques, and then the realisation that the income related to traffic is enjoyable in itself. Before we know it he will be boasting about reaching AdSense payout. It should also be noted that he has chosen to publish his content without choosing to remove monetisation. People in glass houses should not throw stones wink 'Practice what you preach' is a term which comes to mind, he has the option of making his hubpages 'non-commercial' if he so wishes.

    2. TheQuestion profile image61
      TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      i've never taken a survey in all my travels here on hp so i can't speak for everyone else but if your personal goal is to try and make a little money form the advertising then you don't have to worry about compromising your integrity or creativity.
      still, if you get artistically inspired, remember to throw the monetary concerns out the window, okay?  that way everything will work out for you.

      1. 0
        ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I take it that you will be removing the AdSense ads from each of your 3 hubpages then? You have not been on this site long enough to be in a position to offer advice to fellow hubbers. Seeing as you have no interest in monetisation, SEO, affiliate marketing, then what precisely is it that you can bring to the table when a fellow hubbers asks specific questions about online earning?

        "remember to throw the monetary concerns out the window, okay?", that is the poorest advice that anybody could give any other individual that wishes to make money. That is like telling a child who wishes to become a footballer to stop playing football.

      2. girly_girl09 profile image79
        girly_girl09posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I am totally satisfied with the amount of money I make on here and write *purely* for profit. You would not see me wasting my precious time writing articles, otherwise. I certainly have plenty of writing to do for class assignments and I prefer my hobbies to be activities that are away from a computer monitor.

        That being said, I have plenty of integrity and creativity that I use to enhance my "monetary" writing. You can have both while writing for money.

        1. 0
          ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You can also monetise pretty much any type of writing too. If you are clever enough with keywords, you could even effectively monetise poetry and fiction. In fact, the only difference between the 3 hubs written by 'The Question' and a hubpage set up to earn AdSense revenues and attract traffic is the absence of a realistic keyword title and URL! That wasn't the ironic bit though, the irony was in the absense of capital letters from his posts wink

          1. TheQuestion profile image61
            TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            the absence of caps in my posts is a style choice.
            see?  even in just the opinion of one person--in this case you--i would already have to make a major change just in hopes of making a little bit of money
            i would rather not worry about al lthat and just enjoy myself, understand?

  11. ns1209 profile image35
    ns1209posted 6 years ago

    thanks guys especially ryan for these tips and "i will get actually paid" soon if i carry on writing hubs while not thinking about making money writing about questions i will become a millionaire!  wink

    Well at least I now know one way not to make money smile

    1. TheQuestion profile image61
      TheQuestionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      please reread your post.
      hopefully you will notice a few things at which i did not poke fun.
      no one ever said my hubs never made/make money i simply do not wish/need to go through all the trouble of being an ad affiliate.
      if i told you a secret ns you would realize i know what i am talking about but, alas, i cannot and you must simply trust me
      you can make money but you will not get rich here so enjoy yourself.
      that's all i am saying.

  12. brettb profile image71
    brettbposted 6 years ago

    It depends almost entirely on your niche.

    My programming tutorials get CTR's of less than 1%. Geeks rarely click on ads, but I get vast amounts of traffic from them which is great for brand building on my own products.

    My pages in other niches (mainly finance and relationships) get CTR's of well over 10%. There are plenty of other niches (e.g. art) which get unbelivable CTR's.

  13. TheQuestion profile image61
    TheQuestionposted 6 years ago

    you just wrote that you get 100% "within their 60%".  that means you are sharing to me. 
    no one need to declare anything to the community but we all do.
    i am doing no more than anyone else in here--sharing facts and opinions.
    i am not saying there are not exceptions to every rule.  i know that. you are one of them.  no offense but i have no interest in checking on the information regarding your claimed income.  i have seen your hub before actually.
    not everyone makes a lot or even a little money here.  once that fact is accepted we are fine. you know full well that some people get their hopes up and then get disappointed when they don't "get rich quick".  it's a matter of being realistic.
    you misunderstood me.  i am happy actually being paid to write.  i do indeed write online but i am not so crazy about just being an advertising affiliate or compromising in the mere hopes of making a few more cents.
    oh, i misunderstood!  you meant to tell me that you think you only spend 20 bucks being an ad affiliate here on hp.  i thought you meant self-publishing as in real books or even just your own website.
    having my own website i know you have to spend more than 20 bucks when you really get into it.  you either spend money or end up doing things yourself which--when i calculate my time--costs money too.  plus not everyone is as capable as they think they are when it comes to computers.
    people just need to be realistic and not expect to get rich or even live off of what they make here. 
    i think if you focus on the fun first then you will enjoy hp more when/if you make any.
    sorry if this chat made you aqccidentally self-promote.
    i hope that link you posted in here doesn't get you into trouble.
    since you're speaking to me it just might.  that's just the kind of luck i have.
    all i want is for people to enjoy themselves and not be disappointed.
    now i have to go finish a cd review!  i have to get it published before tuesday as that is when it hits the stands!
    have fun everyone!

  14. TheQuestion profile image61
    TheQuestionposted 6 years ago

    for the record, i never said i look down on affiliate marketers
    do i think there is a difference between getting paid to actually write and advertising--yes i do
    beyond that i still will say nothing
    i simply said i am happy actually getting paid to write
    as len said we all have to work somewhere
    and the reason everyone has to work somewhere is because no one gets rich being an ad affiliate at hp
    i think expecting to get rich from hp is foolish and i am happier just having fun here
    you are right though len it is getting less and less fun to be on hp
    in fact, i am mostly still here for my hardcore fans (who don't all 'follow' me) and because someone in particular doesn't want me to stay here to be honest
    i attacked no one personally despite being attacked personally myself
    i am fine with people making a little money from being an advertising affiliate if that is what they want
    i just hope they are realistic about it

    1. 0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I do 'work somewhere', I work in an office.

      Within a year my hubpages income, built part-time, will exceed my income from that full time job.

    2. 0
      ryankettposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Nobody gets rich writing CD reviews either?

  15. Len Cannon profile image89
    Len Cannonposted 6 years ago

    While I have your ear, is that the Denny O'Neil version of The Question? I was never a big fan of the character, but they won me over to him during 52- just in time for the character to die.

  16. TheQuestion profile image61
    TheQuestionposted 6 years ago

    sorry if i wasn't clear, ryan
    and yes, len, before i go, i believe the graphic i am currently using is the original
    i am not crazy abot that girl to be honest
    i have met denny o'neil a couple of times and have to say that even though some people have issues with his editorial policies i liked him as a person
    i don't schmooze very well or i would probably have had a chance to work on a Batman project especially when dc was all hot to have non-comic book writers do actual non-comic book stories about their characters
    you know that rorscach in watchmen was supposed to be the question, right?
    or am i too much of a comic book geek here?
    ok, damn, i gotta get that review written!  i also have hub comments i have to respond too ttyl guys