I got into an interesting discussion on another thread, and thought it would make a good thread itself.
The question of the day is how do you feel about other hubbers clicking on an ad in your hubs?
Personally I really don't see a problem with it as long as the ad interests them from a good quality hub. To those from the previous thread sorry for the bad choice of words when I used the term reward.
What I meant was that I rather click on an ad I'm interested in from a good quality hub rather than a low quality hub. The low quality hubs are usually just created to get ad sense clicks anyhow. For the low quality, I rather take the root URL, and type it in another tab. I don't think it is fair to the advertiser, to have their ad on something where the only thought was to write a lousy article filled with key words with the thought in mind that their visitors will get board quickly and jump to one of the ad links.
I had replies that some get nervous when other hubbers click on their ads. You can inadvertent click on your own ad if you have a tracker URL. I have links to other hubs, but know which ones those are. Can someone tell me if a hubber gets a referral, that they know who the referral is? That could be a problem.
For anyone extremely new to adsense:
1) You don't click on your own ads
2) You don't announce it to your family and friends, so they go in and madly click on your ads.
3) On hubs you don't find a writer you like, hub hop all their articles, and click on an ad in each hub.
4) Only click on ads that interest you.
Personally I think by not wanting other hubbers clicking on ads in your hubs, that you would be blocking a large customer base. The hubbing community is large, and getting larger.
Please let me know what you think, and your reasons for or against other hubbers clicking on ads in your hubs.
Sounds to me a load of BS. Why would an ad be more interesting from a good hub than a bad one? The ads are the same.
Sounds to me like you are clicking on an ad to "reward" the hubber in question and now defending your behavior. Do me a favor and never click on an ad on one of my pages.
Always the religionists.
First for those just starting to read this thread. The (now I know who the CEO is) said clicking on other people's hubs is a big no no.
Thanks WryLiltposted "15 hours ago
From one of the staff members:
She even said staff member. When people know it is the CEO or head boss, they are not usually called staff members. The staff members are below them. They are usually called by their titles.
Sorry Mark, I thought that should go at the top as far as possible.
If I actually said and meant that an ad would be more interesting from a good hub than a bad one, I would 100% agree with you. Took me a little while to get exactly what you are saying.
Something got lost in the communication. Quoting myself "I really don't see a problem with it as long as the ad interests them from a good quality hub. I rather click on an ad I'm interested in from a good quality hub rather than a low quality hub."
This seems to be the misunderstanding. Looking at the comments, I didn't quite do a good job. On the positive side, it got this thread rolling, and hopefully more will become aware not to click on hub ads.
Back to my quote, since hub pages is out, take this on a larger scale to the world wide web. I don't want to confuse anyone again by using hubs as an example. I'm taking it internet wide. If you click on ads on a low quality spam website, you are rewarding them and encouraging them to create more. Therefore only click on ads you are interested in on higher quality sites.
A little story below for more clarification and before people get click mania and click only if interested confused:
If you visit a quality website, read the site, look at the ads, but find none that interest you. You move on.
The next site you visit, is a bad spam site. You see an ad that catches your eye. If you click on this ad, you are telling the publisher that these sites created just for ad clicks are working. Therefore the more people click on their ads, the more of these useless sites they will create. The harder it will be to find quality sites until Google finds a way to send them to the bottom of the lists, since they use all the latest SEO and keyword technology trying to beat the system. If you really want to click on the ad that much, by pass the ad without giving the publisher any adsense revenue. Otherwise it is just hurting everyone.
You continue on your search for more information on the topic you started searching on. You see various sites where some are good, some are ok, and some are high quality, but no other ads catch your interest. Later on that day you eventually do come across a quality site that also has an interesting ad. After reading the content of the website, you decide to click on it.
Maybe instead of calling it rewarding the good publishers, it can be called punishing the bad ones. Some how clicking on an ad I'm interested in became click mania.
If I am actually interested in what an ad has to offer, I'm not going to stop to think if I am rewarding anyone or not.
I would bet that I click on ads less than once per year and that half of those are accidental.
Semantics. Clicking only on an ad that interests you on a good quality page amounts to rewarding the publisher. Punishing the bad publishers is rewarding the good ones.
You have utterly missed the point and annoyed a lot of people - and despite being told to drop it on a number of occasions - are still here defending your position.
Simple fact is - for those of us who know about these things - unsatisfied readers are more likely to click on an ad than those who had their query answered.
What you are proposing is actually the reverse of what you would achieve. I am not going to bother explaining "smart pricing" in any depth - suffice to say - clicking on an ad and not spending any money will harm the person who is displaying the ad in the long run.
So - by following your "click on ads that interest you but only on good pages" you will achieve the opposite of what you seem to be intending.
You are suggesting an "un-natural" approach. As a web publisher of at least 2 years standing - I would have thought you would have a little understanding of how things work. Unless of course - you only read the one book.
Mark I will always disagree with you on the Semantics. Human Nature vs Principle. The natural approach has created a ton of bad websites. Actually I get so fed up with those sites, I automatically hit the back button to try to find what I was actually looking for. I honestly wish more people would do that instead of their tendency of clicking on the ad.
I guess I forgot to put clicked on website, and bought the product. The site is not being smart priced.
Then you got the flip side of smart pricing. The person gets to the product, and find out it is junk or a scam, and doesn't buy. That also hurts the publisher. There is very little the publisher can do unfortunately.
I wonder if Google ranking includes in a part of their formula how much conversion a publisher has on their ads? That is another topic for another day on a different forum.
I just wanted to point out the flawed logic here. It's not what you think that matters. It's all about what AdSense thinks.
If she meant that literally, then I would like the ability to opt out of hub hopping
If she means it as I read it then I'd like to do some stomping.
Dark Side, please read my reply to Mark above.
I was not talking about rewarding anyone. Somehow click ads that interest me became click mania. If you were thinking about buying a product. You found two at the store you could buy right away. One you could see was high quality. The other you could see it looked like it would easily break almost as soon as you bought it. That one is also half off. Which would you buy?
Hopefully the higher quality one, or wait until you found a better quality one later on that is little less expensive. By buying the cheap, low quality one you are telling the manufacture to keep producing them. In other words you are voting with your dollars which product keeps getting created. If there is not enough interest in a product, the manufacturer will change the product to make it better or quite producing them.
The same goes with low quality spam sites/ hubs that are created mainly for adsense. The people will keep producing low quality sites if they think that is what is bringing in the revenue. For hubbers that concentrate on adsense, if they think that low quality is bringing in the revenue, they will keep continuing creating them. I know for hubs we can vote down and flag. That process also takes time. Since hubbers are not allowed to click on the ads, if non-hubbers would quit clicking on their ads, that will hopefully be more incentive for them to change to quality hubs.
There are internet marketers out there that are still preaching you want low quality sites, with some information, but not too much. That way you will have some content, but not enough to keep people interested. Therefore your visitors will have greater likely hood of clicking off your site through an ad.
An clicking on an interested ad means if you only see one ad in a month that interests you, so be it. Please by pass the ad on a bad website, by going directly to the main URL. If you see two interesting ads in one day, then so be it. Good site, click on it. Bad site, bypass it. I should say ads you are interested in, where more than likely you will sign up or buy the product if it doesn't turn out to be worthless rehash of free information on the web that they are trying to sell.
I have become very conscious about clicking on Ads. I have no problem with clicking on Ads as long it's something I am really interested in. Never you click a Ad just to reward a hubber, see it as though you are paying for the Ad placement, maybe then you will more mindful about clicking.
I do not care if people click on any ads. If it is of interest to them I do not see why not.
Bad, bad, bad, bad idea on a multitude of levels. I actually had quite the discussion with another hubber about this over a year ago.
#1 - If you're hubbing properly, you don't need "fake" clicks from other hubbers. You're making your fair share from organic search engine visitors.
#2 - Webpages that get a lot AdSense clicks that don't convert into sales or signups or whatever the ad is promoting will eventually get smartpriced. The clicks could be deemed less worthwhile by AdSense and they will cut down on how much you make per ad. You could be hurting hubbers rather than helping them.
#3 - I would imagine that over a period of time, if you had hundreds or thousands of Ad clicks on the same domain, particularly clicks that do not convert to sales or signups or whatever, you can pretty much just sit back and wait for AdSense to shut down your own account.
This is the thin end of a wedge where hubbers will end up swapping clicks, and that is very bad. Like the following game - you follow me and I'll kiss your ass behaviour, or the I'll vote up your's if you vote up mine - and so on - but much more risky to your own account, other people's accounts and possibly the Hubpage model.
I thought the unspoken, maybe now it's being spoken, rule was - don't click on Hubbers ads.
Could do with some very clear once and for all guidance from Hubpages on this.
I never click on ads here. If you see one that interests you, either enter the web address itself or google the service, products, whatever it is that interests you.
I recently read a few hubs with the hubber asking for visitors to click on the ads, that's against google TOS.
An old saying applies: just because you can does not mean that you should.
And you shouldn't.
I am proud to say neither Hubbers or Non-Hubbers EVER click my ads (or read my Hubs for that matter)
Untrue. I have read one of your hubs. It was the one about.. umm...well, I can't recall. But I definitely read it. Or was that Cagsil?
Wait, no, it was something I wrote myself. Quite insightful and amusing, it was. Thank you for reminding me of that delightful experience.
I was quite proud of that piece myself... while I monetarily thought I had written it
The important thing is that neither of us clicked on the ads - even though it was for a newly published 40 volume set of the history of ceramics. I was so tempted..
I treat hubs as any other article I read on the internet. I can't remember the last time I clicked an ad anywhere, but wouldn't have a problem with it just because it was a hub (not mine of course).
However, to click an ad just to "reward" the writer somehow is theft from whoever placed the ad. Or so I see it. To take money from them with no interest whatsoever in buying is not ethical in the slightest. If you want to reward the writer, send them a check!
To the OP: I don't understand your advice #3. That can, and will, hurt the hubber in the long run as has been pointed out. Or was that your intention because you don't like them? Either way it is wrong.
As I said reward was the wrong term to use in the other thread, and I apologized for the use of it.
1) To click on ads you are only interested in.
- Do so only with hubbers who wrote quality articles
- Otherwise you are rewarding low quality or spam hubs, which encourages them to write more
I'm not sure how to make it any clearer.
With number 3, that is suppose to be a do not do, because it is wrong. Maybe this is better wording - do not find a writer you like, hub hop all their articles, and click on an ad in each hub.
I never even notice ads except those on my own hubs which I study with interest to see that they relate to the ads I wanted there.
If they don't, I change words in my hub where appropriate.
I think it is a very bad idea to ever click on any hubber's ads. Do you think Google doesn't notice? Do you want to put all our accounts at risk?
As Wilderness says, it is theft from the advertiser, purely and simply.
If you belong to a large forum that uses adsense ads, you would not click on any of them either? Wouldn't that put their adsense account at risk because there could be too many clicks from the same domain?
Isn't it theft from the advertiser if a person pops in from Google, clicks on the ad, and clicks else where?
Wouldn't it be more likely that the advertiser would get what they wanted from good traffic than bad traffic? Which is better traffic for the advertiser search traffic, or a hubber browsing articles they are really interested in?
I'm really surprised by the response so far.
Mark Knowles - It is not to reward good hubbers. Why give anything to someone who is trying to cheat the system? I would do that whether it was on hub pages or elsewhere. Other wise you are encouraging the person to continue the practice. Don't you mind doing that?
I know Adsense themselves are trying to discourage this behavior. If they keep getting paid, why should they stop writing lousy articles that the only focus is to bring in adsense clicks, and thus bringing down the over quality of the web. Isn't it irritating to go to a site that has only a couple of paragraphs of useless rehashed information and a ton of ads, or a hub that does the same thing?
lrohner - I'm not talking about faking clicks. I'm talking about being truly interested. The person who paid for the ad I clicked on got the sign up. Don't worry Mark it wasn't one of yours.
Then what about a getting a lot of google traffic with no sign ups or sales? Same thing isn't it? I thought the hubbing community would be a higher quality traffic.
Mark Ewbie - You created 5) No swapping clicks.
As far as this being an unspoken rule. I and I would suspect many other hubbers don't know this supposed unspoken rule even existed.
rebekahELLE - On another site you wouldn't by pass the ad, but on hubs you would. You would give the click money to the owner of the other website, but you just robbed the hub adsense advertiser you just by passed, especially if you performed the action the ad intended you to do? If you gotten a hubpage adsense ad, you just took away income for hubpages itself.
Pcunix - Just because you can click on an ad, doesn't mean you should if you are not interested. Agreed. Does that really make sense just because you are a hub member?
lrohner - AdSense wouldn't realize that a site that has over 200,000 published members and who knows how many unpublished members that the site is going to receive thousands of clicks from the domain itself?
I don't think the people running hubpages are really worried about their adsense account being shut down just because 100,000 hubbers decide to click ads on Hub Pages. If anything, I think they would be counting on it.
I know a forum that has over 200,000 members also that runs ad sense ads. I suspect many of the members click on the ads along with google traffic. Their only income is from ads. Adsense hasn't pulled their ads for too many clicks on the same domain. Actually other advertisers actually pay large amounts to post their ads on various parts of the forum. How do I know this? Because they made an announcement about their growth a while back. At that time I think they had only half of the members they do now.
I don't see where there should be any fear on this aspect. Otherwise adsense ads would have been long gone on the other forum. I don't see adsense blocking forums where it has many members that may click on their ads, thus getting many clicks from the same domain.
Bible studies, you don't strike me as being terribly religious when you advocate theft.
thou shalt not steal.
I don't see it as theft at all. Especially when the advertiser gets what they wanted in the first place.
Are you saying that hub members are the worst traffic you can send to advertisers?
I would say hub traffic and google traffic would be about the same as far as advertisers getting what they want. I have feeling that may be even better quality than search engine traffic.
Why did you bother asking the question in the first place? Your mind seems already made up. I'm with the group that doesn't want you clicking my ads.
Just because the other forum hasn't been shut down, doesn't mean that it won't be.
Google is much more sophisticated than you realize. I'm sure they know what normal activity is versus inflated clicking.
When it comes to a person's Adsense account the only route is to be very conservative. When it's gone, it's gone for life.
I'm not saying it is made up, but I'm thinking everyone who has replied so far has theirs set in stone.
I was hoping to get a good discussion of pros and cons going.
I feel sorry for the hubber using adsense whose main traffic comes from hubpages.
I'll put a thought out there for you, how do you know that half of your clicks on adsense hasn't come from other hubbers already?
Hubbers whose main traffic comes from within HubPages do not make any money. Even if other Hubbers clicked on ads, our community is far too small to generate worthwile income.
My Hubs didn't start earning reasonable money until I was getting over 80% of your traffic from outside HubPages. These days I get over 90% of my traffic from outside HubPages.
I think before you click on any hubber's ads, you should contact them and see how they feel about it. People like you scare the crap out of me, you really don't get it. This is a shared site, and it will look suspicious. Period.
Google has basically banned entire continents for click fraud in the past, you think they can't deal with one muli-user site, whatever size
Perhaps this is your hobby, it's my livelihood. Please respect that.
You are saying that Google can not tell the difference between your adsense account, Izzy's adsense account, simeonvisser's adsense account, or hubpages adsense account?
That any hubmember clicks on any ad it will automatically look like you clicked on your own ad? Or you are just propping each other up? When in reality none of that is happening, and adsense will be able to realize that. They will be able to see that people are clicking on ads from various hubbers, and not just on one hubber?
AdSense does not want people to click on ads to 'reward' the content. End of story really.
It is not clicking for rewards, it is clicking for interest.
Let me quote you: "What I meant was that I rather click on an ad I'm interested in from a good quality hub rather than a low quality hub."
Which means you are clicking ads based on the quality of the hub. That is rewarding good content instead of bad content. It does not matter whether you're genuinely interested in the ad: the above clicking behaviour is not allowed.
I'm not allowed to click on an ad I'm interested in? That is not allowed?
It is not allowed that I shun low quality sites and articles?
It is not allowed that I do not shun high quality sites and articles?
That is what you are saying right?
Your ad clicking behaviour cannot depend on the quality of the hubs or the author of the hub. Anything that remotely resembles a selective clicking behaviour 'just out of interest' is not allowed. Any click on an ad should be genuine so that's why clicks should come from organic search traffic, not fellow Hubbers. Everyone stays away from the ads of others to avoid any suspicion from Google AdSense.
Clicking out of interest does mean you are interested in the product and will buy it if it is the right product after you had a chance to see exactly what it is. If the person isn't interested in the first place, why even consider clicking the ad?
Here I thought I was saying all that in the short form. I guess it has to be the long form for some.
Besides the point that hubbers can bring in a genuine click as you call it, (I'm going to say it since I'm going back over the thread) for other more sensible reasons, hubbers can not click on any hub ad whether or not they intend to buy.
Some people click on ads to reward the publisher, regardless of interest. It is this behaviour that we don't want.
I understand your point that Hubbers are also fellow human beings and they can, like anyone else, be interested in an ad. But there's something else at work: they are actively participating in this game by publishing content and trying to earn money themselves. They own an AdSense account too. How does Google know if you're genuinely interested or whether you're just helping a fellow Hubber? After all, you know how the game works and why not click to help a fellow man? Nobody wants to raise suspicion so we don't click on the ads of others, it's better for everyone.
Yes I want search engine traffic shopping from my hubs as well. Nice and clean and nothing suspicious.
You could ruin someone's adsense account. Period. There's nothing to discuss.
This shouldn't be that important to you. I don't see why clicking on someone's ad should be that critical to you. Is there a point that I'm missing?
I sincerely hope this isn't a ploy to get us to visit your hubs and click away.
You really need to step back and see the big picture here.
How? I'm not advocating multi-clicking. I'm not advocating clicking on something that a person would not be interested in. We all have different adsense accounts. It seems like you want to block a large customer base from the advertisers. Isn't that doing a disservice to them?
I'm really trying to understand this paranoid thinking.
The internet is large enough and there is an abundance of genuine customers to be found through search traffic. They really don't need our clicks. We cannot have an atmosphere here at HubPages where it is encouraged to click on other people's ads - the site would close down shortly after that once Google has started banning all the AdSense accounts.
I am concerned about a general click-fest. You are irritating me beyond belief.
Again why is this so important to you? There is a subtext that I'm not understanding. Two years here and this is what you come up with?
Perhaps you are incapable of attracting search engine traffic and hubbers are your only hope. Beats me.
Don't forget by me posting this article, and playing devil's advocate that you and I are bringing more awareness to the issue.
Think, If I never thought this was a major concern even after two years of being on here, how many more like me are on here?
With more arguments for your position, the more likely you will be able to convince someone else, especially someone that is hard to convince.
I think you're forgetting a few things:
1. Hubpages has 40% of advert impressions (generally). You might end up clicking ten adverts and 7 of those clicks go to Hubpages. It really depends which adverts are showing on your visit.
2. You MIGHT be clicking your own advert. If you use referral trackers you can show adverts on other people's hubs 9-12% of the time for two hours OR if you have a lot of referrals you might be clicking your own adverts which display 10% of the time on their hubs.
I personally would never click another hubber's advert. If I wanted to help another hubber I'd simply link to their hub. Why? Because a click might bring them 25c but a backlink might bring them hundreds of visitors over time.
I wrote a Hub on this topic and said the best thing Hubbers can do for each other is to promote each other's Hubs versus clicking on Adsense ads.
However, if it's truly a click because of genuine interest then that's going to occur without someone thinking they're doing it deliberately to benefit a Hubber. That's okay.
But, yes, like the others do not click on Adsense ads thinking you're helping someone else.
"However, if it's truly a click because of genuine interest then that's going to occur without someone thinking they're doing it deliberately to benefit a Hubber. That's okay".
I never ran across your hub on that topic.
I finally got to read your Hub. It is a very good Hub. Before getting tarred and feathered, I would have agreed with you 100%.
For what I'm being tarred and feathered for, you promote a little when you said it was ok if the person is going to buy the product.
From what others are telling me it can still Hurt Hub Pages.
From humagaia "You as a signed up member are a part of HP in the eyes of Google. By clicking an ad you are likely to be clicking an HP adsense ad 40% of the time (thereby not rewarding the writer but potentially HP themselves). If it is deemed that HP condones this their adsense account will be closed."
Even though I buy the product, because it could be an ad from Hub Pages, and I'm a member of Hub Pages it could still be viewed by Google as Click Fraud.
Therefore no one wants any other hubbers to click any ads on hub pages.
If this is wrong, please let me know.
I remember on Associated Content, people doing things like click on ten of my articles and I'll click on ten of yours to boost page views. Then I read an article from someone on AC who did a calculation on why that would never work well enough to generate income.
The same here ... it's traffic from search engines that will generate revenue.
you're assuming that I click on ads, I don't, anywhere. If I'm interested in something, I go directly to the site or shop in a local store.
I'm not robbing anyone, and not wasting businesses advertising costs.
To the OP. Do yourself and the rest of hubpages a favor and just never click on another hubbers add. Just not worth it. If you think you really must then right click on the add to get the url, then just type the url into the top so the click does not get registered.
use the click this not that rule - click hub profiles or titles or forum threads not ads (yours or anyone else) - by the way I didn't know this was allowed
From one of the staff members:
If nothing else, this thread may help other hubbers known not to click on any ads. Since it is official, I won't.
Neither am I going to copy and paste the URL in a new tab. I know many more will not want to be bothered, won't know how, or be afraid to accidentally to click on the ad with a copy and paste of the URL. I still think it is blocking a large portion of potential customers for the advertisers.
How many more hubbers don't know this? I have been on here two years? The only thing that led me to create this thread is that I couldn't see the ads while hub hopping. I just thought it was special for the hopping.
I would have like to have known how they came to their decision.
I am totally confused, if I see something that I really want to buy or examine on a hubbers hub, you mean I can't check that product or service out. I even see things on my hubs that I want to try, but I know that's wrong, so I just leave that page. So, please tell me, what are you suppose to do when you see these ads on hubs that you are interested in? I mean when you're not doing it to cheat the system. PLEASE EXPLAIN!
It's simple - most will have an address for the advert on the advert itself - such as :
Buy Red Brand Huggies Nappies Cheap!
I've never heard of Red Brand Nappies. Are they new?
Haha no. I just picked a name out of thin air as an example.
fastfreta - I know what you mean. Technically it isn't cheating the system. I guess you can look at it as helping the AD Word advertiser, since now he/she is getting views he/she didn't pay for. That ad can now be viewed by someone else. It saves the advertiser money.
For the person who wrote the hub, hoping to get some clicks looses out.
rebekahELLE technically it is not robbing the hubber that put a lot of time and work into the hub. Still either they or hubpages lost money from that click. I'm still not sure if that is fair to either the hubber or hubpages.
Rules are rules.
?? What an odd topic to find being discussed. I have absolutely no doubt that some hubbers are rubbers against others, certainly in having them visit and rate their respective hubs regularly to keep themselves up in the stats, and while it never occurred to me they elicited other hubbers to click on their ads to rip off revenue, it does not surprise one little bit, feels kind of like a big Duh.......just never thought about it.
...and it doesn't sit well with me that someone would choose to click on ads only on hubs they consider, in their opinion, to be worthy.
... and I don't have my hubs tied to an adsense account as yet, I just figure hubpages would look more fondly on my hubs if they had ads, as it benefits them.
Those that ask others to click on their ads will eventually get expelled from adsense.
Anyone thinking about it, remember the person you are asking may just be the person who is going to report you to adsense.
I never thought of hubbers visiting others just to keep their stats up. UGH. I rather see how my stats fall where they may even if someone votes down my hubs because they are angry at me, just totally disagrees, or thinks all religious people are nuts. It is something I actually expect.
I never expected to create quite a doozy of a thread.
Oh gosh, this is one scary thread, can we have some staff intervention here? A Maddie one-liner would do the trick.
Please never visit my hubs.
I have never clicked an ad on HP or any other site that I am a member.
I have thought of the consequences if another hubber clicked on one of those cartoon yourself ads or something similar and actually followed through with the promotion. Would that be seen any different by the advertiser if the click resulted in a sale.
I don't get this at all. If I see an ad I'm interested in and as long it isn't mine, I'll click on it. Why not!!!! No wonder Hubpages is only breaking even.
Google has no problem with us clicking on the ads of other hubbers, if we have a real interest in them.
Where did so many people get this idea???
And I am not saying it is ok to trade clicks. That is out and out immoral.
"No wonder Hubpages is only breaking even."
http://blog.hubpages.com/wp-content/upl … -piece.pdf
Fives years from start-up to break even is actually very good for an online business, some major businesses are rumoured to have never have breaken even, Geocities never broke even (once the 2nd most visited site in the world, and gone as a result).
Probably a silly question but... if they're earning so many millions, where does the money go? Obviously there is hosting and servers etc... but where else does money go?
(Feel free to treat me like an idiot in the online business area!)
They had two round of investment I believe, you tend to give away equity for that, but ultimately it would go here:
Servers (30 servers by the way, there you go - some inside info)
Wages (highly skilled people)
Rent (office in the San Francisco, the financial district in fact)
Rates (not sure how that works in the US)
Marketing (they have to get the word out)
Possibly start-up loans to finance. Ultimately though, it is about striking a balance between your operational costs and your revenue. Profit being the bit which is left.
With online business the owners will be salaried, taking roles as Directors or as the CEO, because they have to feed themselves and their families(and enjoy themselves, a bit) whilst they wait for their equity to pay dividends. Otherwise you would have had Deeds and Edmondson working for free for 5 years, which whilst admirable is unrealistic (remember that they are based in California and have families etc).
So take the revenue, deduct those expenses, and you are left with the profit. Believe me that 5 years is not a long time online, it took Amazon about 6 years to break their first quarterly profit, and then they reported losses again a couple of years later.
Ok. I read what Paul Edmondson wrote and that is why people can't click on other people's hubs. I don't get the rule, but I guess it's a rule
Perhaps this link is more up to date http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/ … a_diff.php
Moderators. It is about time for the good of the site.
Own video platform. Cool.
More ways to make money. Totally cool.
I'm really confused now. Most of the people in here are yelling do not click on my ad. I looked through the help pages about this, and found nothing.
I did a quick search through the questions clicking on ads. Where were you guys in these discussions?
http://hubpages.com/question/55243/do-y … n-hubpages
http://hubpages.com/question/61530/is-c … oogles-tos
http://hubpages.com/question/106424/doe … ick-on-ads
These are other hubbers from eight months ago to current saying they click ads, and it is ok as long as you don't click your own. One hubber said it is only a violation if you trade clicks.
Where is the moderator telling them that it is a big no no to click on other hubbers ads? Is everyone in all of those discussions going to be banned from Hub Pages and Adsense?
Why aren't you guys paranoid about them also, and the many others that are probablly still clicking on ads?
I'm not going to start clicking on ads again, so get that paranoia out of your brains. This is truly conflicting information.
You have clearly seen and participated in a thread in which the CEO of Hubpages has specifically stated that clicking on ads is a big no.
If the Chief Executive Officer of the company has felt the need to spend his time commenting on this subject, then why would you need validation of his statement from a mere moderator? Do you think that the moderator is going to undermine his position or offer a different stance?
You are really beginning to grate on people now, I suggest that you let this thread die and take heed of the advice quite clearly given by Paul Edmondson. You are lucky that the Hubpages team is as patient as it is because if I were the CEO of Hubpages I would probably now be about two of your posts away from pressing delete on your account.
This is a serious subject, peoples primary incomes are at stake if Hubpages harnesses a community of internal clicking; please understand that and move on. Hubpages and Google have a good relationship which will soon be tarnished if advertisers get less value for money; Google puts advertisers at a much greater importance than publishers, as they are the lifeline of the organisation and the bread of the self-publisher. Advertisers will not pay good money to recieve low value clicks, any dilution of their returns will see advertising revenues fall, and Google would grind an axe accordingly. Whether that is through smartpricing or account deletions, nobody, absolutely nobody, on this website, are going to be supportive of either of those horrible events. Capiche?
You just don't understand how advanced the system is, it is far too easy for Google to identify cases of internal traffic creating revenue for itself at the expense of external advertisers. Don't you have a bible to read?
First if you would read, I said I would not click again.
Second, I didn't know he was the CEO. I'm sure many others don't either. I honestly thought he was a moderator.
Third, the problem still exists without a site wide announcement. Those people on the other forums are still clicking thinking nothing is wrong. There is nothing in the help section saying this is illegal.
Now I'm wondering if this is a new rule. If it is so important, I will be expecting to see some type of announcement on hubs where everyone is going to see it such as through e-mail or on the main account page.
Will all of them be banned from Hubs? They don't know either.
The problem does not "still exist," because there is a very small minority likely to do this.
Yes - people who ask for clicks and click to "reward" people as you were doing will and do get banned. It is important - but most people who make any money with adsense are clued-in and will protect their account.
Obviously - you do not care and there will always be a small minority who do not care. But actively promoting this will almost certainly get you banned by google and adsense.
You now know not to click on ads. I would leave it at that if I were you. Live and learn.
"people who ask for clicks and click to "reward" people as you were doing will and do get banned"
Where did I ever advocate this, or even said it was ok to do?
I recently replied to Mark Knowles and dark side near the top. Please read. I honestly don't know how in the world what I said has gotten so twisted.
That would be put on the list of do not ever do.
PS. In my comment above yours, I was talking about Hub Page members not knowing they can not click on any Hub Page ads. They still think it is ok to click if the ad is not on their Hub.
Hubpages gets 40 odd million visitors a month. I cannot imagine it is a great threat and most of us know what is what.
The issue only arises in the occasional discussion on the forum - and things get 'splained pretty darn quick. You asked - you got it 'splained.
So - stop looking to blame hubpages or some one else for not warning you of this great threat and - next time - read the TOS when you sign up for things.
I can't afford to buy anything, and I certainly do not buy anything off the web. So I never click on the ads. I might have done it once or twice on my own hubs to see if the ads even went anywhere, but, I haven't done it since.
An advertisement has to be something that I am really interested in for me to look at it, otherwise I don't bother.
Bible, I suggest you thoroughly familiarize yourself with Google's Adsense terms and conditions and you will better understand why clicking on fellow hubbers Google ads is a No.
this page from Google may help https://www.google.com/adsense/support/ … swer=48182
It is not up to HP staff to inform people of another company's policies. If I sign up for a partnership offered by a company, it's up to me to read the policy and understand how it works. HP does not sign the Adsense check, Google signs the checks.
Thank you. I wanted to say that, but I every time I tried it came out very cutting and insulting so I held off.
I read them. I'm not sure where you think I'm actually trying to say. Other people have gotten it messed up.
I know Google terms say
1) I can not click my own ads.
2) I can not ask for clicks
- makes click exchange illegal
3) Click fraud is illegal
It does not say I can't click another persons adsense account.
The only information I'm finding is on the Ad Sense forums, and it seems that members clicking on other ads in a profit sharing site is a gray area. If the site itself was generating all the revenue, and then sending the money to the members. Then that is against Ad Sense policies, since members can click the ads for their own gain.
This site is not like that. Each of us generate our own profits with our own codes. The gray area is when 40% of the ads comes from Hub Pages. But we do not profit from that.
As I stated before the best answer came from humagaia "You as a signed up member are a part of HP in the eyes of Google. By clicking an ad you are likely to be clicking an HP adsense ad 40% of the time (thereby not rewarding the writer but potentially HP themselves). If it is deemed that HP condones this their adsense account will be closed."
I can not find that in adsense terms, but it can be found on the forum with some digging. In adsense terms all I could find was "...invalid clicks or impressions on Ads generated by any person, bot, automated program or similar device, as reasonably determined by Google, including without limitation through any clicks or impressions (i) originating from Your IP addresses or computers under Your control, (ii) solicited by payment of money, false representation, or request for end users to click on Ads"
For anyone wanting to look at the adsense forum:
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/A … &hl=en
I know the CEO of HubPages said no to clicking on other hubbers ads. I was trying my best to understand why.I believe I understand enough now even if it isn't black and white.
You realize that before the CEO of hubpages was the CEO of hubpages, he was a google employee, and he is very familiar with how things work?
No I didn't. He would have been the best one to explain everything. He just said he thought it over.
I think I understand where you are coming from, and I don't think you meant any harm. But... you know, I come from a software engineering background. I know how good the computers behind google are.
Adsense known every add you click.
They also know what search terms you normally search for.
If there is a sudden discrepancy in your clicks, like clicking more often on hubpages than adverts on another site, I know as someone who made my living out of this... adsense will notice it.
And they will, simply, choose not to pay out for that click. And ban your account.
It's not so much what google says... it is what, after being on online forums for four or five years, I know.
Sometimes in the past, google has banned people who didn't commit click fraud just before first payout... simply because their conversion ratio was too low.
They never said that was what they were doing... but.... everyone knew that was what they were doing.
It's the conversion rate, you see, that is important... and if there is a big enough discrepancy, then they ban your adsense account. People have been banned, even when they were not involved in click fraud... simply because they were not profitable.
Any discrepancy can raise flags with google... you need to keep your conversion rate as high as possible... and I believe that someone coming on my hub organically though google is much more valuable than a click from any hubber.
Are you going to buy? If you are, great. If not, do not click my adverts, whether you are a hubber or not.
I've always been suspicious of adsense. I do not believe my account will remain forever. And that is the truth, even though I run adblocker on every site I have my adsense on, so I can never commit click fraud. And I never let anyone know where I am writing.
Once an adsense account is banned... there is no recourse... so I am working on my backup plan right now.... because I will not have my adsense account forever, one day I will lose it... even though I am completely honest.
That's quite serious. It makes sense not to rely on AdSense forever but I didn't know they also banned people if their conversion rate was too low. I don't know where my visitors are coming from but why should I be to blame for their lack of purchasing products (or whatever the ad was for)?
Ditto this. Talk about a scary thread!
How do we know what sort of conversion rate is "too low"? Do we have any legitimate options for changing things before our account is closed and banned? What about those of us who are only just now learning to be salespeople, rather than merely writers?
Adsense is very sophisticated, it is not so much that your conversion rate is low, it is that your conversion rate is very much lower than other similar sites, displaying similar ads, to similar people... they know the variations better than you do.
It's not a one hit thing, they are very good at selecting the right ad for your content, that will get the highest conversion rate.
I was just explaining to Bible Studies the reasons people are so against this...
Look, the bottom line is that adsense is a business. They only make money if they deliver value to advertisers... their customers... and how they measure this is conversion rate... they will ruthlessly weed out anyone who doesn't offer that value. First by cutting the value of the clicks (smart pricing). And then, if you still don't make them money, by ditching you.
And if I were them, I would do the same.
It's not about blame... it is about business.
If you are honest, you probably have nothing to fear... but still, it is business.
Thomas, Thank you for understanding, and for the information. What you said is something I did not know.
No, I didn't mean any harm. I never meant people to think clicking on ads without performance, if it is possible.
In the past, I have clicked on an ad and went to a site that didn't sell anything, or ask for any memberships, or requested an e-mail. How does that equate in to the performance? Note: it is a Christian site with a lot of good information.
Some advertisers don't care, and if that is the case, adsense won't smart price that site.
But sometimes, the actions the advertiser want can be things like you returning to the site... in which case, they will put a cookie on your machine and log your visit to the site. Or sometimes, it can be joining the site.
Or it can be that you click on a specific link.
Or download a file.
Or any one of a hundred other things... depending on the exact details of the offer. But even if there isn't an obvious conversion rate... adsense is still looking to check that the profile of people clicking the advert is roughly within a normal range.
Thanks, I know I read the site. To have the conversion rate be attached to cookies is dangerous isn't it? Many people clear their cookies, history, and other things daily to help keep their computer clean.
But, Google had this data from hundreds of millions of people...
They know the exact percentage of people who clear cookies, history, and etc in the demographics of that site...
And they can even work out if the particular computer has cleared their cache regularly, because they know your IP address, and your constantly visit google and see their adds... every time you go though google.com they read the cookie...
They know when your browsers cache is cleared.
Google is the most sophisticated information company on the planet.
Most people with an AdSense and/or AdWords account almost never click on ads anywhere. I think that's why none of us really understand where you're coming from. As AdSense/AdWords users, we should know better than the Average Joe.
I have clicked on maybe 10 AdSense ads in the course of my lifetime, and every single one of those was on a Google search page where an ad seemed to answer what I was searching for better than what Google returned. And I never, ever click on an ad unless I am ready to purchase or signup or whatever if it turns out that the product they are offering is the right one. Anything less is stealing from the AdWords advertisers.
I've run online campaigns for some top media agencies (not AdWords or anything -- direct website buys), and they measure success in terms of conversions/sales -- not clicks.
I do have adsense, but am not with adwords. Even though I have had this account for two years, it is really only more recently that I have been active, and more interested in marketing, SEO, and keywords. Maybe my brain is wired differently, but I'm still trying to make heads or tails of it.
When I joined Adsense, the most pressing thing that was being talked about was not to click on your own ad, and not getting banned. The conversion rate Thomas pointed out, I didn't know they did.
I guess I'm more of your average Joe.
All I know is that I dislike these websites/hubs with very little to no information and mostly ads just so people will click on them. To my thinking these people who are getting paid by adsense are saying wow, this works so I'll create more sites like this. Google did take care of them for a little while, until they snuck back in with just a little more content just to get in on googles good side on the low end.
The more people that pay less attention to them them and their ads the better.
I was always told by my elders to vote with my dollars. I'm thinking even clicking on an ad is like voting with your dollars with the publisher, and buying the product is like voting with your dollars with the advertiser.
Yes, but you have to realize that money does not care where it came from. If bad content is enough to get people to click on ads and to have them buy stuff, then that's what people will create. Hopefully people realize by now that good content works a lot better in attracting visitors and getting ad clicks.
Vote with the Up button instead or the other feedback buttons, that's much safer for everyone involved. What you just said may harm the publisher more than it does him good.
I hope so too. The vote up and down will work much better on Hubs. Too bad there wasn't a vote up and down button on the web.
Hmmm, wouldn't this be interesting? On Google search page, we could vote up and down websites. I know it will never happen.
Thanks for jumping in Mark. You've got more experience with the religious types than I have. I don't consider the religious forums worth bothering with, but when they start endangering my livelihood it's quite another matter.
This person is truly scaring the crap out of me. I hope there aren't many more hubbers who are this obsessed with this clicking on Hubbers' ads. This has got to be the most misguided, uninformed logic I've seen here in a long while.
All we need is for Google to think we're having a Click Fest over here and the party will end damn fast.
Nice grin Mark. You guys tarred and feathered me good. Maybe that should be my next hub, what it feels like to get tarred and feathered.
Nelle, there probablly are not any hubbers obsessed with clicking other hubbers ads. I wasn't. I clicked about 5 ads in two years. I was just obsessed with the why, and why not.
I have been on here two years, and never thought any thing of clicking on an ad in Hub Pages. How many others, and how many newbies won't either. How many people just scan the terms? Here I know I read them, because I was making sure some questions I had at the time were answered before signing up.
Maybe this will put your mind at ease a little bit. This thread has already informed a couple of hubbers that did not know. Possibly some who didn't know, but didn't want to land in the fray of things. I think it will inform even more as they come across this thread that it is not allowed to click on other hubbers ads.
Great thread, great question, great answers.
Tomorrow's subject. Is black black, or is it white?
Here, in black and white:
Invalid click activity consists of any clicks or impressions that may artificially inflate an advertiser's costs or a publisher's earnings, and for which we decide not to charge the advertiser ... Source: Adsense Support - What Is An Invalid Click?
Invalid clicks are clicks for which we decide not to charge our AdWords advertisers, since they may artificially drive up advertiser cost or publisher revenue. These include extraneous clicks without any value to the advertiser, such as the second click of a double-click. They also include many other types of clicks that we've determined aren't motivated by genuine user interest. Source: Adsense Blogspot - Defining Invalid Clicks And Click Fraud
The optimum aspect of both paragraphs is in bold.
Therefore clicking an ad just because you like a hub, an article, or the look of an ad will contribute to the above.
It is prohibited and likely to result in Adwords Advertiser's losing trust in Google or the Adsense account holder will lose their account.
Thanks Frogdropping. To be on the safe side, and that's where we all want to be, then best to avoid any clicking.
I did read that. Now seeing that in bold and viewing this
"You as a signed up member are a part of HP in the eyes of Google. By clicking an ad you are likely to be clicking an HP adsense ad 40% of the time (thereby not rewarding the writer but potentially HP themselves). If it is deemed that HP condones this their adsense account will be closed"
and "artificially drive up advertiser cost or publisher revenue"
Google might think the members of the site might artifically drive up the publisher revenue of the main site. Especially if the site is a profit sharing site whether the members actually meant to do so or not.
That might be the simplest way to put it.
I actually didn't know this. I'm generally not one to click on ads for the most part. I almost never notice them, but there have been a few times over the years where I have found one that interested me, usually as a result of something I'm searching for specifically.
I don't think I've ever clicked on an ad on hubpages, but I can't say so with 100% certainty because if I'm searching for something, and the ad is relevant, then it's possible (like .01% of a chance). But then most of my searching is done in google and not on hubpages (though I've found and gone to hubpage articles based on those search results a few times).
Anyway, I guess it's good to know it's not something that's allowed. I would never have done it purposefully, but there was a minute chance I'd have done it without thinking in my quest for answers to whatever I was researching. I guess I'll have to just pay more attention now that I know this is an issue.
I don't know if I was brave or stupid to admit I didn't know. In any case, since I'm not much of a clicker anyway, no harm done thus far. And now I know!
Very interesting thread to say the least. I'm just not an ad clicker myself. I think most Internet Marketers aren't. It's the Senior Citizens and online shoppers who click like crazy. Well, that and horny teenage boys looking for nude NatGeo pics!
Why would you click an ads of any hubber, to reward them? it is not our money, it is the advertisers money that is being used to pay the clicks. The intention to click to give monetary favor is not good.
Granting that you are truly going to buy something, how can google know that it is you nor any other household member is clicking the ads, all they know is your IP address and they can't check who really did it. In that case, your IP address is in trouble and your adsense will be revoked.
Not to reward them. Only if you are genuinely going to click and have the intention to buy. Moot point in hub pages, since hubbers are not allowed to click on any hub ads even if they were going to buy the product.
The point can be applied to the world wide web. In other words if you see a spamy, low content site, hit the back button and not the ad. Otherwise you are telling the publisher that low spamy content is working and to build more sites like that.
As my elders would say, vote with your dollars. Meaning with each product you purchase, you are telling the company whether to keep making that product or not. If enough people make the same decision as you, that product will be changed or gone due to the lack of interest.
I'm not an Ad Words advertiser, but I don't think they are able to actually choose which sites they want to be on. They may be able to target ads. I think it is a whole rotation system. Without them wanting it, their ad may be put on a low content site that they don't want to be on. I would think you would help the advertiser by not clicking on an ad from a site that is more than likely there just to bring in the clicks and not real conversions.
I know Google has helped by having certain sites smart priced, but there are still a lot of bad sites out there.
If you go to a site and say UGH, don't look at the ads, and just hit the back button.
That is how it works in the real world. But clicking on ads cannot be done to 'vote for that publisher' because his content is so good. If you don't like a product then don't buy it from Amazon, that would be the online version of your story. But the game with advertising works differently: a click on an ad is not free money for the publisher - people have paid for those ads to get results. And we must keep the interest genuine, not to 'vote for the publisher's great content'.
Good you got the jist of it, but not how it applies to publishers though.
AdWords advertisers pay for clicks not views as far as I know. If the person does not click, then the advertiser never lost any money. Also, the publisher never receives any money.
Now hopefully the advertisers ad will show up on another website that will bring in more genuine interest and clicks, where people will click and buy the product (long version).
To me bad site = bad quality clicks or no genuine interest. I would think people going to the bad site, wants to leave, and sees the ad as an easy way to leave without really thinking about it would not make an interested genuine click. Unless an AdWords publisher can tell me otherwise.
Therefore bad site = hit back space button or by pass clicking ad. All other sites, surf and click as normal.
Shouldn't it stand to reason that the person creating the website to display adsense ads cared about their revenue would change their site or stop making lousy ones if no one ever clicked on the ads displayed on the site?
Unfortunately I know that isn't how the world works either. I still think it is a nice idea though.
PS. Publisher meaning the person who created the site to display adsense ads.
AdWords advertisers can choose CPM or CPC ads. CPM is actually impression-based (cost per 1,000 impressions) while CPC is click-based (cost per click). Haven't you ever noticed money coming in through AdSense that had no clicks attached to it?
Thanks for jumping in lrohner. Do you guys think that this is a sockpuppet escaped from the religious forums, upset with us implementing Edweirdo's filter and ignoring them? Trying to drive us crazing.
This need to click an ad on a hub - it's something I just don't get.
And this obsession to keep bringing up the topic again and again... Doesn't it feel like the religion or poltics forum gone wild?
Actually no, I don't.
I think that she is someone who did not know that something she was doing was wrong (as many of us have not known at some time or other, whether about this issue or about another one), and honestly did not know why.
A rather large number of people have jumped on her to explain it and in some cases to yell at her or belittle her in some way - why would she not become defensive about that? Feeling ganged-up-on?
If the thread bothers you, just ignore it; or ask for the thread to be closed. The question's been asked and answered. You don't need to keep it going any more than anyone else does.
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