In light of the Google algo change, it is now obvious and confirmed that hub-hopping is VERY important. I feel that if you publish here, you should hub hop when you can. As it should hopefully increase our revenue and hopefully take this hubpages back to the top, where it belongs.
The problem is this... It is hard for me to know is acceptable and what is not sometimes. I feel if we can get an idea of what is acceptable and what isn't it will not only benefit us, but the staff as well.
Please feel free to post hubs you are unsure about flagging, as it will give everyone a good idea on what to flag and what not to.
Here is my first iffy one. I notice the grammar seems fine. However it has a generic picture and a big body of text. Is this something that should be flagged?
http://hubpages.com/hop/#/Run-Your-Life … e-Industry
This is the same exact thing. They add one link to a particular site.
http://hubpages.com/hop/#/Can-Testking- … mic-Future
Are you asking if these are to be flagged on account of the fact that they are less than eye-pleasing? My answer is no, in most cases a hub shouldn't be reported just because it's ugly. It's the information that counts and the factors that Paul Deeds and FD pointed out.
Yeah, a hub should not be flagged if it just seems ugly. However, a more appealing hub helps - such as paragraphs nicely organized instead of long texts with no breakups anywhere.
The second one is duplicate, it should be flagged. The first one surely doesn't add anything, it's just promotion, but I couldn't find it breach any rules.
I posted both of them because they both seem to be the same exact format. A big body of text and 1 link in one of the texts.Seemed strange.
The first Hub you posted contained this sentence:
"Today, in case you are on the go and want to deliver emails or look at some e-mails, it is very, undoubtedly, a fantastic detail if you have a cellular phone that's equipped with world wide web."
Substandard, no question.
I prefer the more classical hub to flag:
You can pick either from this eloquent author.
These types of authors are the ones that would be easy to weed out based either on a probationary entrance period or a minimum word filter (sans poetry category)
Yeah, those are no brainers, went ahead and flagged that, lol.
I am more or less looking for what is just barely acceptable.
It is also duplicate context ripped from other sites. Ex-http://www.writeletters.net/goodbye-let … riend.html
Goodbye letter? WHAT THE **** kind of hub is that? Kids less than <12 writing this stuff?
If you're unsure, you should err on side of flagging it and we'll take a look. While many times violations are clear, for some of the rules there is a substantial gray area that exercises our moderators good judgement.
If you're going to do a lot of flagging, please do review the rules:
We certainly appreciate the effort, but flagging hubs with the wrong flag, or that are clearly within the rules uses up time that our moderators could be using to deal with real violations.
Thanks for those reminders.
I know that I've become a lot more aggressive when hub hopping. I used to be a lot more forgiving, but now when I see anything with poor grammar (I see lots of hubs that look like they were translated into English with Babelfish or something) I flag the heck out of it.
is this site getting to be a place where money is all that matters to the members? i don't make anything on here but i get a lot of awesome feedback on my hubs which is all that matters to me. money is great but if it gets to the point where hubs are being flagged just because they don't make money, people like myself might as well quit coming here.
I don't believe people are flagging hubs that they don't think will make money. At least I hope not.
I'm sure Hubpages would love to have everyone's work on here. Sadly Google does not, so the cut off has to be stricter. If it doesn't get published, then post it somewhere else. This site is about getting to the top of Google search. If content is short or grammatically jacked up, we have to flag it.
It isn't that we don't think it can't make money, we just don't want to lose our money. Besides us flagging it doesn't matter, what matters is what the staff does with it. And if they say it has to be improved, it has to be improved.
I certainly hope no one is flagging hubs based on potential revenue!
That said, it really kind of is all about the money. Without a good revenue stream, there is no HubPages. They aren't staffed with volunteers, you know. This is a for-profit site.
It's not the same as paying GoDaddy a few bucks each month and then going and writing articles about your dog's birthday party. Or setting up a free Blogger blog and writing journal entries. Way different...
Can I just say I don't get the allowances made for poetry.
I've seen four line poems that OK may be the most beautiful eloquent inspiring bits of work on the planet - they aren't - but in what way does that qualify for anything? You might as well write it on a toilet wall.
Why do poems not have to be say twenty lines minimum, or some other such arbitrary number?
I don't know if HP has guidelines on what substantiates poetry, but it requires just as much thought and creativity to compose an effective short poem. Every word has to be considered, and placed properly. I have submitted some of my poetry to magazines, book submissions, etc. and one of my poems with less than 25 words was published in a poetry book.
OK, fair enough and didn't mean to be too critical.
no worries. I personally don't publish my poetry here, just a couple to add to the portfolio. I have read some amazing poetry here at HP. I guess we all have to remember that HP is open for all authors, as stated on their About Us page. I know that in a recent interview Paul Edmondson brought up the fact that HP has the largest collection of poets online. If they don't feel this is significant or helpful, I'm sure they would make necessary changes.
http://www.siliconvalleywatcher.com/mt/ … a_diff.php
Everyone here is not going to be prolific, full-time, revenue generating writers, and I don't see a problem with that. I think it's kind of sad how some threads seem to imply that those with less hubs don't bring in traffic. We're all here for different reasons, that should be respected, as long as people are playing by the rules. How many people sign up and never read TOS?
All good points RE and I was being thoughtless and unfair. In my defence can I say that I also have not brought in any traffic. So I'm on the side of the penniless.
I want to thank you. I am new to hubpages. The beginning responses to this "thread" (I hope that's the correct terminology) started out to make me feel uneasy about even attempting to post a hub.
I've been researching...reading the lessons first, before I post a hub. I read for over 6 hours yesterday. When I''m ready to write my first article, I hope that I will not make too many errors. Please don't blast me unnecessarily if I do! I'm sensitive
I followed the aforementioned links and they're gone. Those writers probably felt like the biggest losers after reading those comments.
I am a poet, a writer, an artist, and a cartoonist. I am seeking artistic expression and a spirit of cooperation, as well as, an opportunity to make some extra cash. Positive feedback is always the best way to approach a problem. Let's help each other grow and learn to be better from this experience.
If a person feels they may be under attack or criticized excessively, they are not going to want to try. After all, there should be a period of learning and communication before ostracizing a person for attempting something new. We can't learn if we don't have guidance. That's true for all life experiences.
So, thank you fellow hubbers for introducing me to the community. Hope we can all work together for a common goal.
I totally agree. I have found this community quite less than accepting and very off-putting as a new hubber. I would hope intelligence and talent could be used for good and not as a weapon, but I'm sad to say that's not always the case in this community.
Hi Hipprintz and Welcome You are getting the wrong end of the stick here This is a very supportive community for writers, many of whom care deeply about doing their bit for HubPages to keep spammy content at bay, as in the long run this kind of content damages us all and devalues the site. (This very thing happened just last week as Google gave hubPages a kicking, so everyone is feeling that's it's more important than ever to ensure what's posted on here at least meets some minimum standards).
Those links were not to "writers" who had something interesting or useful to say, they were links to people who posted "spun" content which is the worst drivel you ever read. Spinning content basically involves taking an article and mixing up all the words and sentences up so that in the eyes of the search engines it looks unique - they usually do not make any sense and can't be read. This is a technique done by some people to get links, adsense revenue and affiliate revenue - they are definitely not writers and this kind of stuff needs removing from HP.
Because hubs are not human reviewed, many spammers use the site for shady purposes and we as hubbers help HubPages by bringing this kind of stuff to their attention.
Anyway I hope that clears things up for you....now get writing!
Well heck it'd be great if everyone joined with your attitude Hippgrintz - welcome to HubPages
Where is the like button...??!!
Hipprintz, I, like you had a little trepidation in the beginning...reading the tutorials, checking out the Learning Center, perusing the Forums, hoping that I get it right, but sometimes, and only sometimes, to get it right, you do something wrong. Not by intent of course, it just helps you to have a better understanding. I remember the first time one of my Hubs got a "Needs Revision", I nearly dropped to my knees, and shouted, "Lawdy Noooooo...!!!
I quickly recovered, fixed the article and all was well!
I have every confidence that you will see that HubPages is a great community, and you WILL be thrilled by being here! Welcome to HubPages!
I haven't been touching poems I'll leave those for someone else.
better yet, since poetry is not typically revenue generating per the current income models on hubpages, maybe they should be moved to their own domain - like www.hubpages-poetry.com. then they still get their day in the sun, but aren't subjected to the "low quality" filters from G?
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I love hubbing
How about u?
I'm confused about how poetry fits into the whole scheme of things at HP anyway. I'm not knocking poetry, so please all the poets don't get your dander up, I'm just saying, the poems I've read here are highly personal, yet Hubpages will unpublish a hub for being about the hubber's personal life. Could someone explain that double standard?
It's not a double standard. One of the qualities of great poetry is that it can take something deeply personal and make it universal, speaking straight to the hearts of many different people, holding a mirror up to us and reminding us all of our common humanity.
Anyway, I've also read personal hubs on here written in prose, which have been very successful. I don't think any hubs are unpublished simply because they are about a personal matter. It is more how that matter is treated and how relevant it might be to others.
Again I am not criticizing poetry, but there is most definitely a double standard. I was following some great hubbers who've recently gotten unpublished due to their content being personal. If you write a hub, whether in poetry or prose, if it appeals to a large number of people, it deserves to stay, even if it is personal in nature. We are not alone in our problems. Many of us go through difficulties with parents getting older, relationship issues, trouble with our children, etc. I for one enjoy reading about other people and how they handled their issues and if they can infuse it with humor, so much the better. I was very sad to see many people's hubs removed that touched my heart, were relevant, or just flat out made me laugh! Meanwhile, the poetry stays...THERE is a double standard.
Nobody's hub gets removed for being personal. There is nothing about being personal is the TOS. They must have broken hub rules on something.
Without quoting directly from an e-mail I myself received and I'm afraid many others that is exactly why they were unpublished. There was no other violation of TOS. And this is exactly why I said early that this was not always a supportive community. Just because I'm new doesn't mean I don't understand the TOS or know what they said about why my hub and others were unpublished.
Writing of all types can convey emotion, transport people to other places, and be beautiful. Poetry doesn't have the market on that. Writers of prose, humorous hubs, personal hubs related to the human condition aren't asking for special treatment from HP, just equal treatment.
Could you quote the email?
I'm having trouble understanding this then. Normally I think they just direct people to the TOS and say there has been a violation or its substandard or something - I don't know exactly seeing I've not yet had a hub unpublished - but could the hubs have been too short maybe?
A Hub that is purely personal is considered substandard. This does not mean all Hubs with personal elements are moderated, only those that would not hold any interest or meaning for someone who does not know you personally.
For example, a journal-type post about what I did yesterday would be considered substandard. A Hub including a personal story which illustrates some greater point is perfectly fine.
Then I think you guys are overdue for a staff meeting, because everyone is not on the same sheet of music.
We do have frequent meetings, and I believe we are on the same page. I have reviewed your correspondence in the team inbox, and you were clearly told that your Hub was flagged for being primarily personal and a prominent watermark, and were encouraged to ask questions if you needed clarification. I have reviewed the Hub in question, and it seems to be a simple recounting of your online dating history, with a large number of product capsules. Were you to add some content about the lessons learned, or draw conclusions about online dating that might be helpful to others, and remove a few of the revenue capsules to improve the formatting of the Hub, we would be happy to republish it.
In future, I encourage you to seek clarification via email to avoid clogging up threads on other topics.
I did and no one gave me guidance as specific as you just gave me. My point in all this was there are many, many other hubs on this site that are strictly personal...and funny...and thought provoking...and interesting, which are still here.
They are all extremely busy, for reasons far beyond their control: http://www.searchenginejournal.com/goog … ers/28339/
Most of us will understand if replies to emails take a while right now
I do apologize for the confusion. As Ryan mentions, we have been pretty swamped this week. I say it not by way of excuse, but of explanation. We do strive to be as thorough as possible in our emails, but you are always free to ask questions if something seems unclear.
And by the way, could you pass that my way, Maddie and Irohner? :0)
That's the beauty of virtual wine... there's plenty to go around!
Here is is:
Your hub had been flagged by the community as containing personal content. Please flag any hubs with personal content you encounter
I think you have said this well. I don't see any double standard.
Poets don't necessarily write only about their own experiences. How would one know unless they say, this is from my life? It's just like a composer who writes a song or composes music. It is the ability to transfer that emotion felt while writing to the audience.
Low content, nonsensical hubs, miscategorized, misleading, links that lead to porn, gambling or affiliate pages that are the type that barely let you exit off-page. Non-English, dupe content, spam.
So a hub named "iPhone 5 Review" (which is clearly impossible because it's not out yet), would be misleading? Yes? (real hub)
Not only is it misleading, it is doing far better than all of my hubs combined in terms of traffic. I can't see its stats, but based on my experience that less than one in 100 give a feedback, and that hub has over 2000 feedbacks... eeek.
Yet some members defends its existence, calling it "humor" and "contains useful info".
Sometimes I don't understand Hubpages.
It's funny how this hub you've been so against has got into the hot hubs list, because so many people went to see.
Either you wanted this to happen, or you didn't.
"Hot Hubs" are self-perpetuating. Hot hubs get more traffic BECAUSE they are featured more prominently.
AND somehow it's STILL top ranked for the relevant query.
I am curious to know how my flagging is. I am doing my best, however I can't be perfect!
I am sure some people know exactly what to flag and what not to, I am just getting a general idea of what a good length is.
To me it seems like people just throw a big body of text, saying basically nothing to just drive people to a certain site.
Paul, is there a way that your staff could mail us and tell us where we may have flagged wrong?
I would like hub pages to be unlike any other as I am sure you would.
I do flag when I feel it just isn't hub page standards, and I would like to know if you feel the same Paul.
If there was a way to do this, that would be great. I am sure there is nothing at this point, that is why I decided to make this thread. Aside from the staff taking the time to email us, however I feel it would be better to post examples here for everyone to see. To hopefully get a good idea of what to flag and what not to. Glad that Pauldeeds posted those links so people can read it and learn.
I am sure the staff could come to appreciate this thread as we can really flag the threads that need to be weeded out. The more we as hubbers know exactly what to flag, the easier it will be on them!
Emailing would be silly.
Let software take care of it. When we flag something, add it to a list of hubs we have flagged. When a staff person looks at the hub, update the list to show it was seen. If they take action, update the list to show what action was taken.
That wouldn't involve any human effort at all, but you could go back and see what staff agreed with and did not. You could then review the stuff they left and adjust your future flagging appropriately.
Age out the list a month after staff ha seen it. Simple.
I have suggested it before. It was greeted by yawns.
I rather like the idea. I'll take it a step further
Introducing ANOTHER score... the FlagScore.
Every hub you post yourself (or some time period or something) the flag score goes up a little too (up to a certain limit).
Every time you flag someone, you use some of your flagscore.
When your flagscore hit zero, you can no longer flag anything.
If the staff agrees with your flagging, your flag score goes UP by a big chunk, as thanks for your help in making HP a better place.
However, if the staff disagree with your flagging, your flag score goes down by a BIG chunk.
If your flagscore goes above a certain number, you get a bonus on your hubscore (hey, just an idea)
This stops flag-spam, and encourage proper flagging.
Carry on your discussion about which hubs to flag folks, but if it was up to me I would flagged the entire religious forums and a lot of political/social issues forums.
Seriously, why HP even allow these trolls in the forums?
This isn't really about the forums, this is about getting rid of junk hubs to hopefully increase our rankings with Google.
Yeah sure I know that, but making changes in the forums will result in overall betterment of the site, though not in terms of traffic & profit.
Well Kd, I certainly CAN agree with that, lol. But there are forum filters if you don't want to read those anymore. Edweirdo has one out there.
Ideally we would all want it like that, but too bad there will always be trolls and people hiding behind the internet.
Because they bring traffic.
Be realistic: HP wants traffic. That's the end of any discussion about junk posters in the forums.
wow, I flagged a profile yesterday with that stuff, but it wasn't any of those profiles. someone's stealing content. busted!
I think I've used up my quota of flags for the day. I don't think I can take any more.
Welcome to HP. It sounds like you're doing all the right things, reading and browsing the site. You can see in the Poetry section that there are some really amazing writers here. Poetry is not one of the big $$ topics, but poems do bring in some traffic, which can also lead to other articles you may write. I also include some background text with the poetry hubs I have written which helps give some relevance, and word count. I think it really helps to group hubs in topics that you can link together.
It also is helpful to follow topics you're interested in. I have found it a great way to find other authors that I enjoy reading.
It all takes time. Enjoy!
No wonder we have lost a bit of Google love. Just found a hub in the hopping with the first lines
'PLEASE REMEMBER: that this site is paid for by YOU clicking on the adverts next to the text... soooo PLEASE show your appreciation by clickng on a few - it costs you nothing!! Thanks '
The hub is called Law of Things and I won't comment on the quality of the rest of it
I'd be tempted to send that to Google
I recently saw an entire hub written by someone who had just joined telling people how to make money here by clicking on ads and then proceeded to tell them to start clicking..
I've seen it a few times on various hubs.
I guess this is the difference between a blogging site and an article site.
I always knew this was an article site, and that some people thought it was for blogging personal stuff.
But personal stuff can make a great hub, if written with the wider audience in mind.
Oh and thanks Maddie
If this is an article site, then why is poetry allowed?
Did you know that it is 7.34pm in San Francisco? I suspect that Maddie is working late as a result of recent external factors, namely the Google Algorithm change. Cut them all a little slack for a few days, they must all be exhausted. And if she isn't working late she is answering your queries in her own time, which is also something to be deeply respected
Yes, and I've gotten more information from her than in repeated e-mails back and forth the past few days. My issue is not that I have an ax to grind because one of my hubs got unpublished, but what the topic of this hub is about...what should be flagged and what should not be flagged. It seems to be a matter of opinion and personal preference instead of enforced across the board.
What you don't seem to be aware of is that five days ago Hubpages and many other sites experienced a massive drop in traffic, a huge threat to their business. I did link to one of the thousands of news articles on the subject.
What I am saying is that if Maddie is tied up trying to protect OUR traffic and revenues from huge changes in the marketplace and as a result doesn't reply to all of her emails within a few days then any of us who is aware of the recent news would fully understand why emails are not being replied to. All I am trying to do is help you to understand why emails are not being replied to swiftly at current. This is not typical, but is very much understandable considering the circumstances.
Did you read the link? Or not?
I know about all this (I do read, you know!)and I feel like you're missing the point of what I'm saying. Unpublishing people's hubs for personal content seems to be hit or miss here and I am feeling terribly singled out. Maybe because I got nominated a few weeks in a row for Hubnuggets that they seem to be looking harder at mine. And Ryan, I didn't ask Madddie to join in or answer my questions in this forum, although I'm glad she did. @ Maddie, thanks!
My point is there can't be one set of rules for some people and another set for others.
I'll answer that one.
There is one set of rules, thousands of hubs and only something like 25 staff.
I've had ads removed on hubs that fall outwith Google's guidelines, but I have seen loads of hubs that are allowed to keep theirs.
There is both a fine line between what is acceptable and what isn't.
Someone makes a judgement call. Yours falls on the wrong side, change it, make it better like Maddie suggests.
It is possible that some of the Hubs that are still up (the ones that you think have been given the green light) have not been seen by the staff at all. Maybe the Hubbers who hopped them (if they were published after the HubHopping tool was introduced) did not have a good sense of why they would legitimately be labeled as substandard.
You are right that it is helpful to have clear guidelines about what to flag and what not to flag, but even in the best of circumstances there will always be some judgment calls. With over a million Hubs here, it's a lot to keep up with. When you see a Hub that you think is personal in the same way yours is/was, you are perfectly free to flag it, just as all other Hubbers are.
Just a heads up, we are working on making the guidelines for flagging clearer and more transparent. Just had a long meeting about it (among other things ) today.
And thanks for the virtual wine, lrohner. I've got a few more hours of work in me yet, but I'll be sure to pour myself a real glass later... if I don't pass out while moderating.
I have seen those and I would hate to see some of them unpublished, because I thought they were great!
There are tons of hubs out there, some fantastic, some great, some mediocre, some so poor it defies description. I just don't want us all to go so click happy that we flag stuff that really does belong here. Hey, I didn't flag anyone's poetry when I hopped!
But one thing you can rely on: - a Hub is not automatically unpublished just because someone flags it. The staff will review it to see whether they agree.
So, in the case that you have described, someone else flagged your Hub because they felt that the story of your personal experiences did not meet the guidelines. And Maddie has explained what sort of additions would move it back into the acceptable category.
But then, whoever saw the Hubs that are still here did not have the same opinion (maybe they agreed with you that those Hubs seemed wonderful). And so they were never flagged. And so the staff never saw them.
I'm just trying to explain why it could seem like a double standard, but it actually is not. Different people reacted differently to the different Hubs; some were flagged and some never were (and therefore were not called to the attention of the staff).
Good one, that!
I'll try to remain objective, but if the ax starts falling on all my hubs in the next few days, I'll know the HP staff has put a hit on me! :0)
Add it to the dozens of other conspiracy theories about HubPages... It actually fits quite nicely with the already-established theory that I am the mob boss of an international gang of Hubbers. No. Really.
Which reminds me:
At the last meeting, we discussed territories and I thought it was all very clear but Frankie from Brooklyn has been sending his boys over to my turf.
It's YOUR responsibility to keep these guys in line, Maddie. I'm not saying anything about horses heads and early morning surprises just yet, but you get my drift, I'm sure.
Oh, wait. This is HubPages. Never mind.
Then I'll try to do a really, really good job the next time I am crazy enough to try to put out 30 hubs in 30 days. I don't want any horse's heads in my bed or wake up at the bottom of the canal wearing cement galoshes!
Maddie, it's my theory that you ARE the google algorithm, transformed into human flesh through superheated atoms colliding in a fast-moving stream of incomprehensible calculus. You, therefore, have no need for turf wars. You ARE the turf. And the war.
With great power comes great responsibility, dude.
I think you'll do fine. You have some helpful, informative hubs with some great titles. Wedding planning is probably a pretty decent topic online. I love that Dollar Tree hub, great ideas.
One of the biggest lessons I've learned here is not to take things personally.
I hop occasionally and I am often highly disappointed by what I see...
Tonight when I went through about 20+ hubs I think I flagged well over half as they were obvious spam or translated garbage as well as one that was a blatant copy, of the remainder half were so poor (but not obvious spam etc) that I rated them down..
Of the ones that I flagged I have to say that the bulk of them all came from one country - India, I hate to suggest "profiling" but maybe an analysis of where the crap comes from and the types of subjects covered would enable the hopping process to be more efficient!
I am sure that although there has been a surge of hoppers in the last few days with all the google fuss the number of people that do it on a regular basis is probably quite low in reality - after all how many hubbers take regular time in the forums..
"Profiling" would enable the HP staff as well as the "regulars" to be better at weeding out the crap that could drag us all down!
It amazes me how many people put up lists of things with no preface telling you what it is, they think the title is enough. An article should have a beginning, a middle and an end, not just a middle. I came across at least 4 last time I hopped.
I would perhaps suggest any such strategy sees these people approved after a certain number of Hubpages, so that the great Hubbers from these areas don't feel victimised for the duration of their stay here... some good hubbers from that area.
Sorry, that was a response to Lean Man.
To be "flagged." I have just been flagged by a negative comment who had chosen to complain I had listed my article under the wrong category...
Evidently there is a sub-classification I inadvertly assigned the article.. Big deal. It is a science article. Who would get upset if it is in chemistry section?
I have no idea how to change. I have deleted an article with about 50 comments attached to it...
Life is not about the "deatails," but your destination...
If this happens to you again, post a question in the Need Help? section or email the HubPages team. Fixing the category is easy and there was no need to delete your article.
In this case, the flag was for your benefit - being in the wrong category could affect your traffic adversely.
by Sherri6 years ago
The question of whether poetry Hubs should have 400-word minimums came up in this thread a few minutes ago:http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/70203#post1528809I've been puzzling about what to do with poetry Hubs I've found...
by earnestshub6 years ago
There are a lot of terrible junk hubs here that are damaging to all the hardworking writers that are a major source of good content, be it commercial or otherwise.I would love to see as many hubbers as possible flagging...
by Robert P2 years ago
I have been hub hopping lately and I am disgusted with the incoherent garbage that I am coming across - nothing but poorly translated articles of about 400 words, usually without even any formatting. I would say that...
by tokigostudio15 years ago
I have read numerous hubs while hopping that I thought would be great if the writer did some editing or word smithing. I thought it would be nice to let people know that thier piece could be so much better with...
by NaomiR7 years ago
If we flag a hub, does it say which hubber put in the flag, or is it anonymous. I mean, could someone turn around and flag your hub to retaliate? How does it work exactly? Thanks.
by Edweirdo6 years ago
I occasionally hub-hop, but most of the time I come away from it feeling like I haven't really accomplished much as far as "improving HubPages" goes.So tonight, just for laughs, I decided to type...
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