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HubPages Bumps Up Writer Revenues Amid Content Farm Controversy

  1. WebbyAvatar profile image58
    WebbyAvatarposted 5 years ago

    HubPages made a significant upgrade to its payments, bringing on ad networks including Tribal Fusion, AOL’s Advertising.com, Microsoft pubCenter, ValueClick and Glam Media. Previously the site had used Google AdSense and Amazon and eBay affiliate links. The company is also hiring its own ad sales team.

    Source: http://networkeffect.allthingsd.com/201 … ters-more/

    1. paradigmsearch profile image88
      paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Yep, HP ain’t screwing around. smile

      1. Pcunix profile image89
        Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Increased ads won't help unless traffic gets fixed.

        1. Aya Katz profile image89
          Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          But if the ads are backed by a particular search engine that gets its revenue off them, the said search engine may bring traffic, just as Google took it away.

          Traffic is not some objective thing unrelated to advertising.

          1. Pcunix profile image89
            Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Ads can't bring traffic. Neither  Microsoft nor anyone else wants to  get caught fudging SERP to drive people  to places that run their  ads.

            1. Aya Katz profile image89
              Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Some of our hubs are really good. They got demoted unfairly. A different search engine could decide to give us what is our rightful place, but not just out of the kindness of its heart! The readers won't suffer, and that particular search engine may rank higher in the process with searchers.

              1. Pcunix profile image89
                Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It doesn't.

                Google is the most used search engine.

                Moreover, Micosoft will be looking to make similar adjustments.

                1. Aya Katz profile image89
                  Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Google was not always the most used search engine and it may not always be. Anyone looking to beat Google can't do it by copying their every move. They have to do something better: such as find a way to sift out the bad content without tarring an entire site.

                  1. Pcunix profile image89
                    Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    And you think Microsoft will?

                    smile

                  2. I am DB Cooper profile image67
                    I am DB Cooperposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    This was true a decade ago, but the game has changed. There isn't a hot new search engine every year like during the 1990's. Google has dominated for a decade, and they're in a position where it would be very hard to knock them off their perch. It's not just about some kid writing a great algorithm anymore, it's about making a huge investment to make a search engine with all the features that people want. Google has hundreds of thousands of servers and hard drives, constantly processing and storing new information. It would take a company as big as Microsoft to even attempt to top Google. Microsoft tried, and so far they have failed miserably to make a better search engine. They've even been caught copying Google search results directly -- an indication that their algo couldn't compare with the Big G. A new search engine becoming the next Google is about as likely as the local Mom & Pop gas station and convenience store becoming the next Wal-Mart.

          2. Marisa Wright profile image94
            Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Not true Aya - otherwise sites that feature Adsense ads would get more traffic from Google. 

            Search engines can't afford to skew their results to suit their advertisers, because users aren't idiots and would soon get fed up.

            1. WryLilt profile image86
              WryLiltposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Very true Marisa. I'd also like to add that many sites that have JUST advertising on them often don't even get indexed, especially when they don't have enough real content.

              1. muratos profile image61
                muratosposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Contextual online advertising should work the following way (ideally). It should be WWWW (Win - Win - Win - Win) for Google, Buyer, Advertiser, Content publisher.

                A potential buyer searches "ipad case". Goes to a ranked website in page 1. Clicks on an ad. Advertiser pays $0.70 for the click to Google. Google gets its share from the click. let's say 0.40$. The publisher website gets 0.30$. For 1000 clicks advertiser pays $700. If their sales cover the expenses (it can also mean that buyers are buying well, happy ones on the long range), advertiser continues to pay to Google for ads. Google become happy, publishers happy, advertiser happy with profits and buyers like their ipad case and continue to buy.

                If one part is missing in the chain, the system eventually fails. If visitors to ads do not buy, advertiser cuts the payments, Google loses, publishers lose. Google's aim is to bring content with their ads and show content buyers are likely to click the ads efficiently and buy. making clicks on the ads is not enough on Google's side.

                I used the example for purchases but it can be services, leads and some advanced arbitrage methods as well.

        2. GmaGoldie profile image86
          GmaGoldieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Increased ads is NOT the answer - correctly the position and prestige of HP is needed immediately.

          I am simply dismayed.

          I trust the management and staff of HP and know they will respond - an immediate response with long term goals is needed.  I don't NEED them to change today but I need to know it will be OK>

          1. dingdong profile image60
            dingdongposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            They're working on it, go read the HP blog if you haven't yet smile

            1. GmaGoldie profile image86
              GmaGoldieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Oh, thank you!  I will have to check it out!

            2. Pcunix profile image89
              Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Though Paul's recent comment tells it all:

              "The primary goal is to make sure we really understand the changes."

              That's the problem.  They have to figure out WHY Google has demoted HP. Only then can they decide what can be done to fix it.

    2. snakebaby profile image75
      snakebabyposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So....what do we do with these new ad programs? When will they be available. Must try out to see/feel if these things would work

  2. Cagsil profile image61
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    Interesting post. wink

    1. WebbyAvatar profile image58
      WebbyAvatarposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      HP had tweeted about it smile

  3. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago

    I just want to say...please invite me smile

  4. Aware1 profile image60
    Aware1posted 5 years ago

    This is awesome! I was just about to post this.... read it from FB.

    Go Hubpages Go! smile

    Can't wait to hear more...

  5. Ritsos profile image67
    Ritsosposted 5 years ago

    that's interesting and pro active but will it mean we have to sign up to all of them and also will it mean even more ads on the pages which will devalue it's worth as content andmake it appear more 'spam' like ?

    It would be good to have an incentive to maybe write less but better quality ... I've only just joined and the message I get is you need loads of hubs to make any money and no one is an expert on 800 things so there is a lot of substandard stuff targetted at ads .... I understand why people do that but maybe would be better to have less pages and better quality

    1. Aya Katz profile image89
      Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I think that HP will not make us sign up with the new ad programs. Instead, they will pay us our share through PayPal. It's in the new TOS.

      1. SimeyC profile image89
        SimeyCposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You sign up as an HP Affiliate and get paid through Paypal from Hubpages. The HP Ads replace the Google Ads in certain positions; from my experience in the Beta it was actually very hard to tell the difference - the ads were a little more generic but were effective.

        The transition is seamless and overall I perceive upwards of 20% revenue increase - probably more! It was growing as the 'Google' thing happened, and I feel it will continue to grow...there has been a dip but I'm still pleased with the revenue I am getting and it has exceeded my expectations even after the google thing!

        1. Aya Katz profile image89
          Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Wow, Simey! So you're one of the Beta pioneers! Good for you!

          1. SimeyC profile image89
            SimeyCposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            LOL thanks! I've been dying to say something for a few weeks, and the last few days have been hard as I've seen the discussions build! But we were finally given the go ahead to talk about the Ad program!!! I'm sure a few more will surface!

    2. Sue Adams profile image94
      Sue Adamsposted 5 years ago in reply to this



      Some of us have under 40 hubs and are making money. The main criterion is therefore not quantity but quality.

      1. Ritsos profile image67
        Ritsosposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks Sue .... Yes .... I think I was just keen to get some hubs going to see what happened and relatively pleased to have got a tiny bit of cash within a few days so I must be doing something right. I probably will persist with quantity to some extent ... but probably things that actually are ok with that such as recipes, but I will expand a couple of my more interesting hubs and also try to write some better quality articles soon.

        thanks

  6. dishyum profile image61
    dishyumposted 5 years ago

    Hmmm good news?

  7. SandyMcCollum profile image79
    SandyMcCollumposted 5 years ago

    Wow, there's 220,000 of us! Wow.

  8. 2uesday profile image88
    2uesdayposted 5 years ago

    I hope someone who is good with numbers and explaining things will post a simplified version of what it means, for me to understand. I think I know what it says, but I am not sure as I can read it to mean different things.

  9. WebbyAvatar profile image58
    WebbyAvatarposted 5 years ago
    1. David 470 profile image85
      David 470posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for the post. Glad to here hubpages is really trying to sort things out. In the end - I hope things come through.

  10. WryLilt profile image86
    WryLiltposted 5 years ago

    For those not aware, read section 9 on the new ToS: http://hubpages.com/help/user_agreement_mar2011

    This was announced on the same day as the algorithm change BUT they are in no way connected. Hubpages has been experimenting with different revenue share ideas for the past few months.

    According to the new ToS, the extra payment program will be ON TOP of current affiliate earnings and will be paid once per month once the amount is over $50, via Paypal.

    1. sabrebIade profile image84
      sabrebIadeposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      So it would be like what Squidoo does?

      1. 0
        ryankettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Yes kinda,  but we can run both models at the same time. So extra ads basically.

        Squidoo do it with AdSense, this will be with Hubpages going out and selling their own ad spaces smile

  11. dingdong profile image60
    dingdongposted 5 years ago

    Microsoft will either copy or crawl the Google results.

  12. GmaGoldie profile image86
    GmaGoldieposted 5 years ago

    PC Unix is absolutely correct - traffic MUST be increased.

    Whatever HP needs to do to increase traffic is GREATLY needed.

    I am here for the exposure not the money but the traffic and the exposure are the same.  My traffic has dropped through the flow and I am crying - all this hard work for what? 

    Should I move my content?

    When will HP host video?

    Need answers - sorry for the "paniced" words - I have worked hard for the Hubs and just starting to promote traffic and feel I MAY need to change course.

    1. David 470 profile image85
      David 470posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I agree GmaGoldie. Hubpages is a great site, but if the traffic is not here than getting exposure/traffic it makes me wonder... hmm

  13. jokeapptv profile image60
    jokeapptvposted 5 years ago

    this is sooooooooooo great smile AAA+

    1. Mikeydoes profile image80
      Mikeydoesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That sounds about right with me.

  14. sofs profile image87
    sofsposted 5 years ago

    I guess HP is doing the best possible for us and for them under the circumstances. Yes, I agree traffic has to improve, but I have noticed that it is slowly bouncing back.

    1. Mikeydoes profile image80
      Mikeydoesposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Mine dropped again today. I haven't been making near as much since the change. I'm still optimistic though, this is exciting news. I just want to know what is up with hubvids!

  15. Uninvited Writer profile image83
    Uninvited Writerposted 5 years ago

    Well, I made twice as much today as yesterday. But, my views were lower.

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Same here, but my income is now so low that it doesn't take much to double it.  My traffic has just slowly fallen each day since the cliff edge of the change.

      I'm also seeing that my xomba 50 word backlinks now rank just under my hubs.

      1. IzzyM profile image84
        IzzyMposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Cheer up Wilderness...it will get better! I just know it, I can feel it in my bones.
        FYI my stats are still pretty awful but I think more tweaks are going to get made yet - good ones.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well, I hope your bones are right! big_smile

          I'm just in a waiting mode right now.  Personally, I don't see anything changing radically for some time - we'll just have to wait it out.

          1. IzzyM profile image84
            IzzyMposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I actually don't know what I'm so excited about, because my stats were never that great anyway! lol

            That said, let's get back to writing hubs and stop worrying about all this.
            Tomorrow, I'll start publishing again..

  16. Adroit Alien profile image87
    Adroit Alienposted 5 years ago

    I would love to see this happening.

    Living in a state that only allows Adsense is a bummer. More option is good for everyone. Yeah, Google is still #1 but in a few years, Bing has already surpassed Yahoo! in terms of traffic.

    I'm very excited to see what's in store.

  17. Dolores Monet profile image92
    Dolores Monetposted 5 years ago

    The idea that Google has created a new algo for better content is a good idea but is it working? Have you Googled anything lately? I was looking for some info yesterday and the top sites were all totally commercial. Some did not even provide the info in the title.

  18. readytoescape profile image60
    readytoescapeposted 5 years ago

    Can someone explain how adding more advertisers on the site the writers are not affiliated with help the authors that are seeing existing traffic and affiliate revenue fall?

    Certainly this move will assist the site recoup lost revenue, but I fail to see how this move assists the writers.

    1. Aya Katz profile image89
      Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Readytoescape, I think it has something to do with why we had a lot of traffic from Google in the first place. Whether you are writing for money or just in order to be heard, having lots of traffic is good. The reason we published with HP, is that we got good traffic from Google, when the exact same article published elsewhere got no traffic. Now, part of that was because Google got revenue through HP, so it was good for everybody.

      If Google doesn't want that revenue anymore and is willing to jeopardize it, then signing up with a different advertiser that has a different search engine affiliation might help to fill the gap, in terms of traffic.

      1. Pcunix profile image89
        Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Google does NOT send traffic based on the revenue it makes from the site. Period.  Never has and never will.

        1. Aya Katz profile image89
          Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Then explain to me why it is that the same article without Google ads on a different site gets zero traffic when it had been earning really well on HP with ads?

          1. livewithrichard profile image85
            livewithrichardposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I would think it depends on where the article was first published and that article will get more traffic because it will show up in the serps before the duplicate article does.

            1. Aya Katz profile image89
              Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              There was no duplicate. It was unpublished here first, then re-published elsewhere shortly thereafter. You'd think the search queries would have persisted, and an unbribed search engine would simply direct the traffic to the new URL for the old article.

              1. Misha profile image75
                Mishaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                How do they know this is the same article?

              2. Marisa Wright profile image94
                Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Unless you directed the old URL to the new URL, Google doesn't know it's the same article.  It treats it as an entirely new article with no reputation.

                1. Aya Katz profile image89
                  Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Right. But that's because Google is not making decisions based on content at all. You can argue that the bots can't be expected to read an article and evaluate the writing as to quality, but there is no way that you can argue that the bots are incapable of going through an article and determining that it is word for word identical with another article they read a week ago on another site. Even I could write a program that can do that. They just don't care. All they care about is authority. It's a medieval outlook on things. It doesn't matter what you say -- all that matters is who you are and who else likes you.

          2. Misha profile image75
            Mishaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Because HP has authority, and the other site - based on what you said - don't. smile

            Seriously Aya, you are not a big fan of conspiracy theories, why are you thinking G will follow such a suicidal approach? I am not saying it does not favor the sites that bring it noticeable revenue, it likely does, but in much more subtle ways - to be able to stay afloat. smile

            1. Aya Katz profile image89
              Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Misha, fine, in subtle ways, much more subtle than I spelled out here. But there is a connection between advertisers and search engine traffic, and this connection should be something we consider when we take on new advertisers.

              Authority, BTW, is something each search engine defines in its own way. It's not as if this were an objective term.

              1. Misha profile image75
                Mishaposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Nah, I don't think they favor them in terms of ranking, too much unjustified risk IMO. I am rather thinking of giving more leeway during manual reviews, that kind of stuff.

                And yes, authority certainly is not something that could be easily and universally defined across the board, but it exists and has an enormous effect on rankings. smile

                1. Aya Katz profile image89
                  Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I think maybe we can all agree that HP has momentarily lost authority with Google, and that barring being able to get that authority back, we need to find a search engine that will restore the old authority, based on the exact same set of facts.

                  1. Pcunix profile image89
                    Pcunixposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm not convinced that we do all agree.  I'm not saying that's wrong, just that the dust hasn't settled yet and that it's very hard to tell.

                    For example, some searches still yield HP pages at the top.  If there is a loss of authority, apparently those pages are strong enough to override it.

                    Or it could just mean that all the balloons were tossed in the air and some are settling in different positions and some are not.

                    We need to wait.

          3. Marisa Wright profile image94
            Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Because until the algo change, HubPages had a good reputation in Google's eyes.  Just being on HubPages gave the article a boost. 

            If you then moved it to a little unknown blog that had no reputation at all, it would naturally sink without trace.

            I had a Blogger blog with Adsense on it which did nothing.  Later, after learning lessons from HubPages, I created a self-hosted Wordpress blog on the same subject with the same articles. It did fairly well (and still does).  It doesn't have Adsense.

    2. Susana S profile image91
      Susana Sposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      HP have been testing out different ad networks for well over a year and Paul Deeds stated some months ago that they were considering creating a system whereby hubbers could earn from premium advertisers. It's not in response to the google changes.

  19. readytoescape profile image60
    readytoescapeposted 5 years ago

    Still not seeing an advantage for writers as indicated in the OP’s article link.

    As the internet has developed into a mass advertising delivery system, it would seem to make perfect business sense for Google, or any other search engine, to rank and deliver content that contains their paying clients’ advertisements by priority, first, those site (content) that contain only google ads, secondly those that contain a majority of Google ads and so on, with the lowest ranking returns sites that contain no google ads.

    It would appear to me that by adding more advertising competitors the overall site (HP) rankings would necessarily have to fall in googles eyes.

    Now, if Hub pages was to change the sharing system and pay us directly rather than by affiliate share then the decision might make sense.

    1. Susana S profile image91
      Susana Sposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I know what you're saying but it doesn't correlate with what's being seen with the algorithm change. The sites hardest hit are ones that monetize to a high degree with adsense. If google were prioritising sites in the search results who deliver high adsense returns then hubpages wouldn't have taken a hit, neither would about.com, associated content and the rest.

      1. Aya Katz profile image89
        Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I agree, Susana. But somebody must have pressured Google to disregard the revenue stream from HP in prioritizing things. It's dirty pool on top of dirty pool.

  20. Len Cannon profile image88
    Len Cannonposted 5 years ago

    Right, well, I guess we're good to talk about it. Overall I am very impressed, the earnings are good, the ads look nice. I just ~published a Hub~ about my experiences with the new program, with a little bit of an inside look at what your earnings look like when you sign up.

    I can't say if it is perfect for everyone, but I know it was a very positive experience for me.  If and when it becomes available at large, I hope everyone gives it a try.

    Really though, I only have good things to say about HubPages Ads.

    1. Aya Katz profile image89
      Aya Katzposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I will check out your hub!

  21. andromida profile image75
    andromidaposted 5 years ago

    This will certainly give more immunity to writers from Google's control over publishing sites that depends mostly on Google Adsense program.I appreciate Hubpages's attempts to start its own ad network.

  22. dingdong profile image60
    dingdongposted 5 years ago

    Simone from HP team just said in other thread that the first set of invitations has been sent out..!

  23. Len Cannon profile image88
    Len Cannonposted 5 years ago

    hahaha, yeah, I was "invited."  I dunno if they did that with with all the people in the beta or if it was just a weird result of the random selection.

 
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