Huphopping religious content

1. 77

   frogdroppingposted 13 years ago

   I still see this when hubhopping. I leave it alone as I'm always unsure of it. However I'm trying to work out, re duplicate content, as to whether this matches what I see.
   
   Often they're full of bible quotes, with the hubbers opinion interspersed. Largely, the main body of content is the Bible verses.
   
   I would love some clarity as I'm always unsure. There is a lot of religious related content that is simply not original due to the fact that it's copied.
   
   This is not me poking anyone in the eye that's religious, I'm asking in relation to the revised TOS.
   
   Thankyou

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2. 66

   Pearldiverposted 13 years ago

   Dupe is Dupe... irrespective of whether it is Religious or written on the spawning habits of those left handed crescent spanners that frequent the pages of John Boy Walton's under-mattress, goody 2shoes affirmations!

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3. 77

   frogdroppingposted 13 years ago

   Well hey Pd, thanks for that lol! I was hoping Maddie or someone would come along. I asked here rather than email in case anyone else was wondering the same thing.
   
   Surely I'm not alone?
   
   And thanks Pd, nice to see you

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4. 87

   Will Apseposted 13 years ago

   I often think Hubpages is happy to take any pages because of the internal links they generate. I also wonder if this is really a good thing.

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5. 82

   Mark Ewbieposted 13 years ago

   Yes I wondered the same thing.  I have no ability to 'judge' religious stuff, or poetry or recipe stuff either.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      At least poetry is "unique."
      
      I was wondering the same thing about my recipes. I mean - my ingredient list for spaghetti bolognese is probably not appreciably different to anyone else's - except I put carrots in mine.
      
      I got around this when I wrote my motorcycle reviews by using a screenshot (.jpg) of the specs because I did not want to duplicate the manufacturer's pages.
      
      I hadn't thought about the religious nonsense. I wonder how many bible verses have been cut and pasted on the site? A quick search for "bible" on hubpages shows 47,500 results and "jesus" shows 47,900. If they are all hubs (they are not - that includes tags and forum topics) that equals 10% of the site. Nonetheless - that is probably "a lot," of duplicate content.
      
      I remember a big argument a couple of years ago - when hubpages used to penalize dupe content. All the religionists got bent out of shape that their hubscores were penalized.
      
      Then the rules were changed. Good point Frog.

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         camloposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I've read a number of your recipe Hubs; they are entertaining and content rich, which only proves there is no need for recipe Hubs to be too short and completely uninteresting.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks - I do try.
            
            And a possible way around this dupe problem is to use screen shots of bible verses or ingredient lists, I would think.
            
            Most of the religious hubs I am looking at - not all of them - there are some well written ones - are substantially duplicate content. Great swathes of bible cut and pasted with the occasional "AMEN!" added.
            
            I guess when hubpages send out the notices to people to remove content that triggers the dupe content flag - we will find out how many get deleted. I have a feeling it will be quite a lot. I had not realized there was quite this much. A hundred thousand less duplicate pages should help the strength of the site in the long run. Not going to do much for our short-term traffic though.

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   2. 92

      Rochelle Frankposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I do not flag these either-- (also technology or other things in which I am barely knowledgeable).  Even in these areas, obvious spam and low quality can  often be seen.
      
      I think it is enough to hop through a few hubs that catch your interest and request a review on those you  think are questionible in regard to TOS.

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6. 79

   Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

   It's the same with hubs that consist solely of quotations. If they had an introduction and follow in about 400 I would think it would be okay.

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      Hauntyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Today's 5th best hub traffic-wise for me is one such hub. Sort of religious too, as it has to do with wedding blessings.

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7. 68

   lrohnerposted 13 years ago

   Glad you asked the question, FD. When I see a religious hub on my hubhopping adventures, I usually just hop right over it because I'm not sure what to do.
   
   I would also like to have a definitive answer on recipe hubs -- but different question than Mark. I see sooooo many recipe hubs that are just a recipe -- nothing more, nothing less. Shouldn't they be held to the same word count as any other hub? Or are these excluded from the word count sugggestions like the poetry and auntie photo hubs? (Which, btw, I STILL don't think they should be exceptions to the rule...)

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   1. 0

      Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I do exactly the same thing - and for poetry as well.

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      1. 61

         recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Do you seriously think that poetry should be held to a word count ?   this would mean that only epic poetry would be allowed here and every good poem ever written would be dissallowed ! 

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            Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I was responding to "I usually just hop right over it because I'm not sure what to do.:
            
            I said, "I do exactly the same thing."
            
            As for word count, I think the only people who read poetry are poets, and I really know nothing about it. Most people feel the same way - that's why there is no money in it.

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               recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Sorry - I obviously misunderstood what you said.
               
               
               Many people read poetry, finding good poetry is the hard bit, and grinding through so much rubbish to find the odd gem can be a bit wearing   shame we can't flag really bad poetry

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                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  That is true. I guess I'm also old fashioned. I like it to have rhythm and rhyme. I think the notion that poetry is poetry because it makes one think misses out on the obvious - that good writing also makes one think. A really good writer can make one sentence sing! So, that is no difference to poetry. The only thing that would make poetry different is the format.

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      Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I would flag it if it only consisted of one recipe with no introduction to speak of.

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      1. 68

         Michael Willisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I am with you there! Just a list of Ingredients and a 2 step preparation 50 word max description is not what I would consider a quality hub, but HP might let it fly.
         But...look at Ehow and how many are that short and EHow is doing great with Google.  Go figure!!!

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   3. 74

      Hauntyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      They could be disallowed, but then don't watch Quαntcast traffic reports for HubPages for a while.

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   4. 84

      camloposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'm often puzzled. I now flag the one recipe Hubs that have very little content. And poetry that reads like a nursery rhyme and is complete drivel.
      Up to now, I haven't touched religious Hubs, but I, personally, don't think they belong on HubPages. But there's a category for them, so ...
      Hubs containing only quotes are surely just as bad as those that only contain pictures - like the 'Auntie' Hubs. If I came across one, I'd probably flag it.

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8. 77

   frogdroppingposted 13 years ago

   Thanks everyone
   
   I want to be clear: this is not a witch hunt against any religious hubbers. This is purely in relation to duplicate content. And of course that would (I presume) also relate to recipes that are already posted elsewhere around the internet.
   
   But, to my mind, a recipe itself is a small amount of text. If the content is unique: the method, why it's a great dish, what it's suitable for, what it accompanies etc, then I don't see the same problem.
   
   I find that hubs that are related to religious quotes, verses and so on to be vastly different. The unique aspect is often the smaller part of the equation.
   
   On top of that, many are also meandering personal opinions of what the text means, so does that (then) make it purely personal (the part that is original?).

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   1. 0

      Motown2Chitownposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I write some stuff of a spiritual/religious bent, but it's usually more of a devotional/educational endeavor.  I rarely, if ever come to think of it, actually post scripture, unless I'm going to expand on a point that it makes, or it's the theme of the hub I'm writing.  Difficult to say, frog, but a perfectly logical question.  I often hop right over hubs that are about topics that don't interest me in the least.  I'm fairly careful about what I actually flag.  But, I've flagged hubs with religious content that I felt were poorly written, better off in a forum, or just flat out inflammatory and meant to do nothing but start some sort of flame war in the comments.  And, flagging isn't axing.  It's just more or less a request for the moderators to take a look at it and see if it does, in fact, violate the TOS or falls short of HP quality standards. 
      
      That's my take on it, anyway.  Hope that helps some. 

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9. 87

   IzzyMposted 13 years ago

   I'm glad this question has been asked because I'm unsure of religious and/or political hubs that are published. A lot of the politics hubs are opinion pieces..but do they offer the reader something? I don't know.
   And the religious ones with their bible quotes are read by who? Are they read at all, or are they indeed useful to other religious people?
   I'm trying to look at them under the 'is this hub useful to someone?' premise, but give up. Need guidance.

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   1. 79

      Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If you are in doubt, flag it. Hubpages are the ones who will decide either way.

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10. 73

    Jeff Berndtposted 13 years ago

    Well, In my experience, I've recently run across a lot of religious-themed hubs while hopping. I flagged most of them, not because of their content, but because they were either so short, or had such atrocious grammar, that I felt obligated to flag them for sheer objective badness.
    
    If a religious hub is of decent length and the writer is able to put together a simple declarative sentence without seven grammatical errors, I treat it like any other hub: if it's interesting and I have time, I'll read it. If not, I'll skip over it.

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11. 64

    Mishaposted 13 years ago

    I am with PD. Not sure how religious content is different from any other content. If it is duplicate - it is duplicate, from SE point of view, no matter what it is about. Even when this is ten frog commandments

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       Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yep dupe is dupe-signed Mary Ellen
       
       Im kinda wondering though ,with all this hub hopping,what exactly are the benefits?

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          Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          IDK Kiwi, I don't do that. Don't like witch hunt in any form.

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          1. 75

             Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Well I hopped ,danced ,slid here n there ,up n down for days ,maybe 30 hubs all up ,most of them ranged from average to great.
             
             The worse one was all written in upper case,but figured they didnt know any better ,so told them so ,but flag?...no.
             
             I think its a writing community ,then it should be for all who make a genuine effort ,not just the clever peeps..

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12. 79

    skyfireposted 13 years ago

    I've no objection on your point of removing dupe content. But if they remove those verses(dupe content) and replace it with links then HP is still going to pop warning for outgoing link issue. One point i would like to clear you that there is traffic potential to religious content and this type of change is not in their favor. Religious people are going to get frustrated with these new changes which is not a good sign for quantcast graph.
    
    Check this example -
    
    1) Micah 6:8 -He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
    Problem - Dupe content
    
    2) Micah 6:8 Verse.
    Problem- Limit of two links to the same domain. This will restrict them to use verses which will affect their content flow. If they use more than two links from different sources to get around this problem then there is an issue of outgoing links which HP thinks is trouble. (I don't know what reasoning is behind that point or if it is in anyway backed up by tested data).
    
    I know your intention is not to start witchhunt but from the replies that are posted in this thread, you can see the direction that people are choosing for flagging content.

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    1. 85

       Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Even I occasionally quote a Bible verse, just as I sometimes quote other literature. I sometimes give links to the whole passage, and sometimes I just provide the chapter and verse. I think the key is for the quoted or cited literature to be only a small fraction of the content of your hub.

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       lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, but there is a world of difference between a religious hub that is 90% verse/10% unique content and one that is 90% unique content/10% verse.
       
       I don't object to the auntie photo, recipe or religious hubs in and of themselves AS LONG AS there is enough unique, well-written content surrounding the photos/recipes/verses.

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          skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          In case of 90% unique -10% verse hub model, there is still going to be either dupe content in 10% percent or multiple outgoing links. That's the problem. We all agree to get rid of dupe content but what about outgoing links ?
          
          
          I think 'auntie/celeb content' damages writers community in my opinion. Do you see any 'celeb/auntie' stuff on demand or any other reputable content network ?
          
          
          Writing verses in their own words is the best option but in case of religious stuff these guys make a lot of references and how many outgoing links to limit on such hubs is the problem.

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       Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Here is an idea...how about writing it in their own words with their take on it and a link to the passage?

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13. 79

    FaithDreamposted 13 years ago

    I read all your posts and found them very interesting. On a personal perspective, I read the religious hubs. I find that life dictates it. What I mean is that in life we have questions, we seek answers, we learn from each other. If Bible verses are part of the hub, it gives meaning to the topic. That is my opinion.
    I write Bible verses for impact on the topic. Just like someone who may use quotes from others. I think it adds to the content.
    With that said, if the entire hub or most of it is completely verses or quotes that may be considered dupe. However if you are looking for quotes about life for example, they are good sources of information. Well that is my two cents anyway.

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    Hauntyposted 13 years ago

    Which one do you think is a better domain name - GodPages.va or ChristPages.com?

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       Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       God is more general. So if you are looking for a bigger market share, you should go with that. Make it lower case, and you get an even bigger share!

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          Hauntyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks. That's very sensible advice! I'm in the process of designing a logo for it.
          

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    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    I hope not.. there are topic categories for all of these topics being discussed.. I remember a while ago there was some clarification about 'quotes' hubs in a forum thread. It was considered duplicate if someone had simply gone to a site and copied all of the quotes as they appeared on the page. If quotes are gathered from various sources or not published in the same order as another page, it is ok.  Whether that will change or not, I don't know.
    Depending on the subject, quotes can bring in good traffic.
    
    As far as flagging, when I do, I concentrate on spam.

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    Ron Montgomeryposted 13 years ago

    I dunno.  It must be Obama's fault.

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    CASE1WORKERposted 13 years ago

    i have been working on a criminal masterpeice for some time- still not published, but no need to wait on tenterhooks as it will probably be six months.
    However when I was doing the original research I considered ( thankfully) the duplicate content, Instead of quoting
    witness a said " the dog took the boy by his head and threw him up in the air" ( as shown in internet court records) I have written "the witness described seeing the dog taking the boy by the head and throwing him up in the air" - hopefully I will avoid the duplicate content slur? If not tears at bedtime and even at breakfast time!
    
    As for bible quotations, surely one brief quotation is enough to write on and get interesst- more than that just go and read the bible. It would be just the same if you were quoting from this week's best seller  Thinking about it, our vicar manages to do it every week, take a small verse and deliver a 15 min sermon that is usually interesting- thing is it takes prep time which maybe some writers do not want to invest

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