I got a poorly worded to the point of being offensive email from the team about one of my hubs that got unpublished. I replied with a request for clarification. Almost 24 hours passed since. I am wondering, how long I have to wait for the response?
Now, I keep quiet about one of my workers waiting about two weeks for response after she got banned for dupe hubs, this might sound reasonable, considering the current team load. However, established hubbers like myself do expect to be treated at least with some degree of courtesy and promptness. Am I way off with my expectations?
What the email actually said was:
Substandard - Unfinished or unlikely to be useful to HubPages readers; possibly generated automatically by a translation or article 'spinning' tool
Hey Misha, opening threads like this, as of lately, as been more effective than emailing them and waiting for a response.
However, most of my past experience with Staff is pretty prompt. I would say about 24-48, sometimes 72 hours, on average.
I can only assume their new staff are responsible for this, as they will not recognise a name.
I am also surprised that you had one that fell outwith the new guidelines as your hubs always seem to be to be wordy and interesting. Not that you have that many
I'm just surprised at some of the things that have been happening recently, and this is is one of them.
I hope they respond soon
Thanks Izzy. Given the latest trend I am not holding my breath though.
They are busy changing the rules as they go along.
They have come for me now also. At least I wasnt quiet when they came for all the rest :p
SF: What on earth was wrong with yours? Yours are always spot on.
I really did appreciate your help and support this week.
I'm glad the problem was sorted out and you're back Mrs!
Thanks Wayne - I am just hovering to see how things pan out for other hubbers, I'm not going to be doing much Hubbing for a while.
I'm not writing any more hubs for the rest of this year as most of my hubs need re-writing and tinkering with and plus I've started two other Wordpress sites and one needs a lot of work and that's an article directory!
Not to mention I've started two other YouTube accounts under a secret alias!
Hubpages will recover, just it'll take time. Had a look at my stats and I've lost over a 1,000 views from what the average was. But these things are sent to test us and annoy us! ah well, chin up!
It took me one week, with two more mails from my side to get one hub republished .. the other one which they owned up was a mistake took four days.. while the scores went from mid seventy's to early fifty's ... and if a weekend is there between the gaps add that to your waiting period. lol
The issue as i see it:
Hubpages changed the rules, they have not changed the rules with any satisfactory explanation, they havent had any solid communication about why they think certain changes are anything but experiments.
The change to placement and number of capsules hit me hard. To the tune of nearly 200 hubs that needed editing.
I have an ePn account. Which means I very often used ePn and Amazon side by side for price comparison. This is a plus for a reader - comparative analysis.
I also believe and use the Goldilocks rule - I use blocks of 3 for my ads.
I feel this is aesthetically pleasing and also brings the proper amount of attention to the products.
This WORKS, my conversion rate is good and my traffic is targetted and most importantly my time on page is high and my adsense ctr has always been low (my readers arent leaving instantly via adsense ad because they were turned off)
I also frequently used a single amazon and ebay ad side by side at the top of the page.
As the deadline neared and i still had a hundred hubs to fix, most of them completely mangled by having to just delete capsules I started to place a text block on the top and place a single sentence in this text capsule.
The NEW rule was no products in first capsule. My first capsule was a text capsule. Now Im getting an email that this is "circumventing" the rules.
So, obviously, the rules are not written clearly enough. Apparently , the rule should be no product capsule until x amount of words are on the page.
SO WHY NOT WRITE THE RULES CORRECTLY IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!
Now, I am going back through these hubs anyway as they are all mangled and need overhauls.
But when they unpublish our hubs and Google swings by and they are missing - that hurts your ranking ..when they take 24,48,72 hours to republish, then they are hurting us (and themselves) for months.
All of our hubs were perfectly in synch with TOS before they changed the rules. They are moving too fast and being quite disrespectful to their existing user base. If anything, they should be sending personal emails, creating tickets and sending well explained editorial requests ; leaving the hubs published and setting deadlines at an individual level for the corrections based on how extensive they may be.
This random unpublish crap is for the birds and is very unprofessional and disrespectful. I dont want to hear anything about "plenty of notice" either, my list was hundreds of hubs long, wasnt numbered etc..Many hubs slipped through when I was going through and editing.
Before February my portfolio made HP several thousand dollars over the last 4 months, thats not chump change. We get hit hard by the google algo flip and then have to deal with HP's random unexplained changes!
Ive seen a blog post or two that states that HP is currently pulling peoples hubs for "keyword density" issues. I havent seen that issue reported by staff in the forums or in TOS. Now keyword stuffing is way outdated and not a useful strategy. But should Hubbers be getting hubs pulled for that issue! Without any prior statement?
InfoBarrel has a density tool for exactly that reason, many Hubbers have no conception of what Keyword density even is and certainly should be getting warnings, at least a week to make corrections PER HUB and even a nice lesson written up by HUbStaff that explains what it is and a tool created that can help them discern whether they are writing in an artificial manner.
and wow, Misha up there, has 20 hubs, all of which must have been read thousands of times, with his high profile I bet many were flagged for all sorts of BS reasons by angry forum freaks and PCunixuses etc., yet the hubs have remained, yet somehow now one is not up to par? after 4 years and all the green and education he has brought this place, he cant get a personal ticket number with a speedy response time?
So, in brief, , my issue is small, I'll just delete a few hundred more amazon capsules to make certain Im on par with whatever the unwritten rule is, but I will make it well known that the issue they are coming at me with HAS NOT ever been publicly stated to us before. I dont have any products in the first position, I have them in the second position following a text capsule with a descriptive sentence.
By monday evening, ill probably just not have any ad capsules at all.
This sure isnt a set and forget place that you can just create and earn from anymore, and Im pretty sure thats exactly what the hubpages splash screen i signed up on said
It certainly is not set and forget any more. I have spent the last month scrambling around working out what did not meet the new rules and changing them - without a word of explanation from hubpages. Personally - I think this is nonsense because I have sites with 50 words of text and 100 ebay items per page that are doing just fine thanks.
But - my conversion rate and epn cpc have fallen so low, I am seriously considering removing all amazon and ebay capsules. This is a LOT of work though. All non productive, panic-based damage control.
I usually like to do things with a plan in mind. Like Misha and yourself - I would appreciate some word from on high as to what the new plan is and some form of personal communication.
I too was making good money here and assume HP was as well. I know this is a stressful time for all concerned, but when a member like Misha is not getting looked after and I am asked to work - yes - work - with no explanations or even likely financial reward - quite the opposite actually - I start to get upset.
Personally - I think this capsule removal is not going to strengthen the site until the thousands of pages of spam garbage selling weight loss berries, penis enhancement products and miracle cancer cures from god are taken off.
I am starting to get worried also. How much work is ahead of me? I see a new list of "forbidden topics" that include gambling. I ask if my hubs on poker break the rules, get told "no" because they do not talk about betting real money - but - they do. I talk about betting real money in some of them because that is what poker is about. So now I am in a dilemma. Do I edit these into meaningless nonsense for adsense clicks? Wait until they get flagged next month and unpublished without warning?
I have not had many hubs unpublished myself and usually get a speedy response when I have an issue, so I am shocked that Misha has not had a reply.
Yeah Mark, I too think this 50 words rule is a BS. I am quite glad I don't have that many hubs and whatever I am forced to change can be done quite fast. Still, the lack of planning and knee-jerk panic reactions are quite depressing...
Agreee with this entirely, I have watched my conversion rate sink like a stone with the new rules on Ad capsules.
I think Hubpages incorrectly identified amazon/ebay capsules as a cause of low SERPS. Let me explain
Spam Hubs often contain low quality, poorly put together text and often contain a large number of ad capsules.
Sales Hubs are targeted, use SEO optimized sales text and have specifically designed ad layouts to optimize conversions, these also often require a large number of ad capsules.
Low Quality text got hit hard in the update, and I feel as though the knee jerk reaction against spam hubs caught sales hubs simply because we both use large numbers of capsules. I do not think Amazon or ebay capsules cause a drop in SERPs, I think bad quality content does that.
I rarely quote slubs of text, but this one so matches my own experience and thoughts I can't stand the temptation to agree to it as a whole and in almost every detail. Thanks Joshua.
This place is killing itself by erratic panic moves, and it is really very sad, cause it used to be a nice place...
I emailed them about 3-4 days back about a hub that keep getting unpublished even when I have made corrections(just one amazon product left on the hub). Haven't heard back from them till now. Hp is not the same anymore.
I haven't swung by the forums in a long time but I'm glad I did. I too was hit hard by the rule changes. I have spent the last couple of weeks going through every single hub of mine. Some I ended up deleting, some I re-wrote text and moved things around and others I stripped almost bare of amazon and ebay.
For me its the amazon and ebay thing that is upsetting me the most. My earnings from both have plummeted.
@Misha, @Mark, @SunForged, I sensed it that HubPages have got lots of work doing since the panda, may be given the grace of 48hrs to respond, anyway the did respond with care 48hrs after my first mail to the team regarding recent changes, updates and how it affected me. In fact, Google, Adsense and HubPages shocks lately have really librated me for good, making sure I run and focus with own sites and sure relative alternatives.
I even wrote to Google, Adsense and a few others encouraging them to always carry us(publishers) along with care. G, Adsense weren't this famous 8 years ago. They should also watch it and value us with proper care and considerations. It will get better.
Andrew - it is not that simple, nor do I believe it will majikally get better without some active help from us - which doesn't include writing to google and pleading our case. I have invested considerable time, effort and money into hubpages and wish to protect that investment to the best of my abilities.
This lack of communication to well established presences is disturbing. I have not had any communication from hubpages about the recent changes other than "these are the new rules - you have until this date to bring your hubs into compliance or they may be deleted."
This bothers me. It also bothers some other people judging by this thread and a few others I have seen, because there is no reasoning behind it other than "we think 50 words per article featured is right." They can only have based this on some metric that suggested hubs with 50 words per item featured were hit less than the ones that had less than 50. This cannot be correct, because the pages I have lost the most traffic to were well within this limit.
Now - I understand that the admins have much greater access to information than I do, but none of us work well in the dark, and I suspect that the hubs that were not hit so badly were hubs with incidental amazon/ebay capsules in so I do not think this change is going to help.
I am trying to protect myself and the site - they need the active help of the community and I am ready, willing and able to do that - but emails from Simone challenging me to be a better writer with spelling mistakes and poor grammar in the first paragraph and apparently random deletions of well-established hubs and hubbers are not encouraging me at all.
When you get to 4 years as a member of HubPages they have a staff member allocated to you 24/7. Direct phone number, live chat, email responses within 15 minutes, the whole 9 yards.
I'm looking forward to my 5th year anniversary when you're given the ability to ban anyone on the forum at a whim. It's only a 24 hour ban but still, it's a nice perk.
Can't wait. When do I get my gold watch?
@darkside, that's quite interesting and fun. @Mark, I know HubPages Team got listening ears and wouldn't want to leave anyone in the dark either but seriously the new intake of HP staff should also be very cautious and dynamic in handling issues here just like our Maddie, Jason and others. I feel you brother(Mark).
I told one of Google(adsense staff) who cared to respond to my several mails on the importance for them to cautiously watch the way the treat people with partiality and less care as the were not this famous and dominant 8yrs ago. And anything can happen especially when people feel not satisfied or hurted with less care in any involvements, anyone can predict the uncertain future of such concerned providers if nothing is done to correct it. Very important!
It's posts like this that make my day.
I'm going to go bake cookies for my personal staff representative now...
Im glad the perks exist once you get up there in years, but that doesnt look to be in my future.
Unpublishing for trivial reasons is foolish. The same result could be achieved with a simple email.
Dear Valued User of Our Site
...please correct the following...
at url: _________
We apologize for the inconvenience and understand that you have other priorities, please make said trivial corrections within 72 hours (our normal turnaround rate) or we will unfortunately have to take the drastic measure of unpublishing your work and potentially causing a short term loss in your Hubs positioning.
( i release this template for staff to use for training if necessary)
Unpublishing is a drastic measure that should be reserved for willful and intentional misuse of the platform. They could block new publishing until past hubs (that were identified and described) were brought into compliance, they could set individual deadlines etc.
But to unpublish and dally on the republish is inexcusable, unprofessional and is very much something that will tarnish this sites reputation with online writers. Its an inappropriate editorial process for established users.
I shouldnt have an extra headache on my hands simply because I committed and invested more time into the site and produced hundreds of individual hubs.
<-- I have my hands full.
I'm also very concerned about the stuff that's gone on recently.
It feels almost as if the rules are being made deliberately ambiguous so that people can be unpublished or banned at whim.
And the moderators seem to have a weird set of priorities - Bard of Ely gets a hub pulled because it made a slightly non-PC, subjective statement?? Wow, that sets a precedent doesn't it!
I've been feeling the same way. The moderator comments on my pulled hubs have gone from "Too many products" to much harsher and shrill "Overly Promotional." The only thing on those hubs were ebay capsules and text promoting ebay.
Reading betwee the lines. They've made it so ambiguos they can get rid of any hub they just don't like without really setting new clear policies. My head is spinning every time I try to write a hub that just might make some money. Because the hubs I write that they like, don't make a cent.
The rules are now a moving target. I've been trying to figure out how to work with HP over the past few weeks. Now I just feel like giving up and moving on.
I agree that there's been very little transparency or communication, and changes have happened quite haphazardly. But more than that, I am getting the distinct impression that they no longer want "product" hubs. I don't know if that's because of Panda or the new HP ads, but it sure does feel that they want product hubs gone.
there was a HP blog post a few weeks ago that said changes were coming in the next couple of weeks and to be patient...I expected that a blog post regarding those changes would explain it. I hope one is coming soon.
After a few weeks with the reduction in RSS feeds and the 50 words per product rule, I haven't seen any adjustment in my SERPS nor my traffic. I don't expect instantaneous results, but after a while, I did expect some sort of movement (up, that is).
Maybe they need more time to evaluate whether this change worked or not? So far, it doesn't appear to have done much except for hurting my interlinking of hubs and dropped my views further.
I had thought it good to link common-theme hubs together with an RSS - if the reader was interested in pink BBQ's, maybe he would be interested in my other hub on purple BBQs - I listened to their advice and reduced a LOT of the RSS on each hub, but the only effect has been a further reduction in views.
Thanks a bunch for your support guys
I still did not get any response, neither by email nor on this thread...
Well Hey What Do You Really Expect?
Sooner or Later Grown Up people realize that Being Ignored -
Is More than "We don't Want To Talk To You!"
It's More than: "OMG No No you do it.. I can't!"
It's More than: "Muck Foff!"
It's More than: "Hey... Who do they think they are?"
It's More than: Outta SITE Outta MINE..
It's More than: Will He or Won't He Keep Bleating?
It's More than: "I'll Talk To Him When I'm Ready!"
It's More than: We actually don't know what to Tell You!
It's More than: "Who Cares.. They Don't Appreciate Us Anyway!"
It's More than: Every Other Personal Reason To Ignore Someone!
It's More than: Every Other Commercial Reason To Ignore Someone!
It's Way, Way More than: That..
And it's Way, Way More than: "Shut Up! Keep A Lid On The Problems!
And it's More than: "Don't they realize how many Mil this has cost?"
It's NOT Meant to be: Rude.. Or taken that way!
It's NOT Meant to be: Seen Like We Don't Care...
It's NOT Meant to be: Seen like we're being ignorant or arrogant!
It's NOT Meant to Make You Feel like You're Trailer Trash!
Or That No One Really Cares about YOU!
Or That We can't see that you feel insecure, let down or scared!
CAN'T You See? Why won't YOU Hubbers just understand?
THAT IT IS JUST ABOUT US BEING - MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU!!!!!
LOL In a sense you are right PD, yet the sites like HP are nothing without users. So they may think whatever they want, but if they keep treating users the way they do now, they are going to become a history quite soon.
I personally am not going to publish any more hubs here, neither will my workers. As hubs get unpublished I just use the text elsewhere.
Misha, would you and your workers want to publish any of your material on my new site? I promise I will always respond to queries in record time!
Two weeks back I contacted hubpages about my adsense problem and I got reply within a few hours.In the reply to my second email, hubpages team admitted that they are extremely short-staffed.After that I am not getting any reply of my emails.Since I have closed my old adsense account due to the change of country of residence, I am not earning anything from my hubs.You can guess how critical my problem is!!
It Is NOT Solely Sales Hubs that have been wrecked Here!
It is All Hubs within HP
It has also got to do with the highly questionable 'Juicing' Practice that's been going on - You're into SEO Oli.. I'm sure you understand what I'm saying! ... Why don't you explore that avenue?
The Real PROBLEM Is Not The One That is being Promoted Here Mate! It Is 'What Is NOT' Being Said... NOT What Is!
Why has the management here found No Value in laying out a Broad-brush Strategic Plan that takes care of the Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats?
Communicate some degree of confidence... that is the glaringly obvious tip of the ice berg!
NO Human People Skills... Absolutely None.. And Misha, Josh & Mark... Totally Agree... Keep PD in the Mix huh?
Do you, guys, seriously think that staff can possibly give a personal responce to everybody? To all 200,000 whatever hubbers?
We just have to wait, I think, till changes are complete and then lick our wounds and move forward. i know, it's easer to say...
Where on earth do you find those adorable, entertaining, animated emoticons? That one really looks like a movie! Certainly better than some films I've seen recently.
Well Alla, if you are content with being treated like shit, I am not. Sorry, we certainly don't see eye to eye on this one.
While I do not necessarily agree that you deserve any faster response than anyone else I totally agree that if a coherent set of rules and advice were given you would not be looking for a response in the first place.
The situation has arisen with Google because Hp were not on the ball with the changes, even though they were being talked about by Google well in advance. There was no effort of any kind to clean up hubs that were patently bad in many ways, no effort to clean up copied content.
It is not unreasonable to expect HP to have acted much earlier and given better advice.
The current situation is intolerable. The moderators must have a set of rules and guidelines to work by to unpublish the hubs in the first place - why don't we have them clearly stated somewhere ? The normal reason for this kind of secrecy is because incorrect diagnosis or mistakes by moderators can be challenged if we know the rules.
The other reason may be that HP don't know for sure that theri changes will work and if they publish everything they are doing then they are again open to challenge.
None of these are good enough reasons to keep their guidebook secret against the huge number of hubs that need changing and re-changing as people guess what to do in some areas.
Well, considering that to date I brought to the team about $20K directly and god-knows-how-much indirectly, by training and advising other hubbers - I would have thought I might expect to be treated a bit differently than a random spammer, doncha think? Does not mean I pretend to be treated differently than other established hubbers.
As for the rest - I agree. Team seems to be lost and making impulsive movements that are more likely to harm than help.
I am adding my opinion also... Hubpages are trying to automate something that cannot be automated, at least not like this, perhaps over a period of x months. Any of the capsules on my material were thought out with my own time spent spent finding the right specific product or the correct search string and then for all that to be lost is a disgrace.
As bad as that is unpublishing material is simply not good enough. Is there a senior person or Director reading these threads that can see that this is a
f u c k up ?... Paul are you out there... ?
It is a bit of a pain to have to update hubs that only need an amazon capsule removing and particularly to have them unpublished while you have to do it and wait for them to be published!!!
I hope this really works in the long run, because many Hubbers will and are getting pissed off with it.
Any that have got flagged I've let them get de-indexed in the search engines and I'll transfer them to my Wordpress blogs as they weren't getting that much traffic anyway.
It's put a bit of a downer on writing more hubs for now, motivation is down, I'd rather create more youtube drawing videos at the moment and then come back and see what's been unpublished next!
Need a break from writing me thinks!
Just having a moan I guess....Things will pick up I'm sure!
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