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Google's New Algo: No Article Will Occupy a Fixed Place

  1. andycool profile image69
    andycoolposted 6 years ago

    I am saying this not from my observation or guesswork, I've friends who work in Google in high posts and I know this from them. The new algorithm will not allow a particular article to hold a position for long, however good quality it is of. They new idea is to keep rolling and hence your chance of visibility becomes lesser for a certain period of time, say six months. In that six months your article might occupy a higher position for a month, but after a certain time frame (defined in the algo) you will see your position has lost. It would rise again in future.

    Q: So what's the new mantra of success in Post-PANDA era?

    A: You've to write really professionally competitive hubs, presently not more than 2% of all published hubs here at HP are either written by professionals or enjoy professional quality. Not only that, you've to be really prolific. Pre-PANDA 100 hubs is equivalent to Post-PANDA 250 hubs, that too with quality.

    I am here to stay so I conducted a rigorous survey that revealed the facts. Professional quality means a defined set of rules apart from content.

    PS: Don't ever think that HP competition winners enjoy professional quality! Very few of them are available in Google! So why HP indulges in such a practice? Well that's a different story!

    1. ap.publish profile image60
      ap.publishposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting.....
      "Professional quality means a defined set of rules apart from content."

      Can you share the defined set of rules, i m quite new here it will be really for all like me to start off smile

      1. andycool profile image69
        andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry, I'm not going to reveal that! After all it's competition and I think that's good for long term success. One thing I can clearly say that it's not everybody's cup of tea! You can do a crash course on journalism, if you don't have any certificate. I wish you success! smile

        PS: There did exist no everyday expert like this-mom or that-mom ever in any field! You can make a lot of people fool for a few days, or you can make a few people fool day after day but you can't make everyone fool forever! I'm telling this to HP who claims everyday experts earn here at HP!

        1. IzzyM profile image86
          IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          A crash course on journalism and a few grand in your tail and you can join the OPA (Online Publishers Association) whose members, according to this article, now have preference in the search engines.

          http://politicallyillustrated.com/index.php/lpnh/2522/

    2. profile image59
      rampaknaongposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Good news, unfortunately, I am new. I don't  know so much regarding this. I see Quality in Quantity is the key. New competition starts.

    3. jponiato profile image80
      jponiatoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I really don't understand the quantity requirement.  If I wrote a fantastic hub on some focused topic - say the top 5 reasons to use Pidgin as an IM client -  why should that one hub rank low for that topic just because I never published another one?

      1. recommend1 profile image73
        recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        The obvious answer if you think it through is that the more information in total canbe counted by Google and I guess indicates depth and width, the more linked articles on the same topic gives it some kind of hierarchy and also adds to the pile.

        And if you wrote "the top 5 reasons to have a midget as an IM client"  then associated hubs about midgets and IM clients would add to the total pile and indicate some kind of in-depth or broad knoweldge base - as the googybots can't actually read they can only count.

    4. EmpressFelicity profile image85
      EmpressFelicityposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "The new algorithm will not allow a particular article to hold a position for long, however good quality it is [of]."

      Source?

      And how do you define "professional quality"?

  2. Mark Ewbie profile image84
    Mark Ewbieposted 6 years ago

    This is great news!  At present my 'quality' pages are all at the bottom of the searches, but given my professional er whotsits and that, I reckon they will be up the top in six months.

    Thank heavens I never won a writing competition - kiss of death - journalistically speaking.

    Time to start planning my retirement!

    1. WriteAngled profile image92
      WriteAngledposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      But Mark, you have already admitted to be an awarded Theo Nanist! No need to be modest now.

      As for me, I guess my BSc, PhD, PG diploma in information studies, plus 15 years at an NGO, where I produced information for the general public, school students, scientists, industrialists and government authorities, can now be expected, at some indeterminate point in the future, to bear fruit with a massive leap in hub views between 1pm and 2pm on a random Thursday.

      And pigs will be sighted wheeling and swooping with fast-beating wings over Google HQ...

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
        Mark Ewbieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Lol, you've been peeking...

        I think we are all going a bit stir crazy with this Google traffic desert.

        edit: Good luck for Thursday btw.

    2. earner profile image88
      earnerposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Your hubs are ALWAYS top quality to me Mewbie.

      I just wish you'd signed up under ME! tongue

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
        Mark Ewbieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ah earner, thankyou. 

        re: referral - I can promise you, you didn't miss much out in terms of income potential.

  3. 2uesday profile image88
    2uesdayposted 6 years ago

    I am having difficulty understanding how what you are saying in this forum post relates to the hubs you have written. I am not challenging you, I am just confused.

    I mean, I read the post here and parts of it matched something I had read so I went to see what topics you where writing hubs on.

    Some of your hubs are on medical conditions and I thought I had read that in future Google wanted sites that were experts to be ahead in searches for topics like this. Rather than number one in a search being an 'everyday expert' (such as the person in front of you at the supermarket check-out), unless of course that person really is a doctor.

    Or are you saying that it is the standard of the writing and not the knowledge of the subject? Maybe you mean both.

    Interesting subject though, as the mystery of how the 'new style searches' work has become a puzzle in itself.

    1. recommend1 profile image73
      recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      You don't understand what this is about !!  let me help - Andycool knows some geezer over at Google and has discovered long after everyone else that high quality content will rise to the top in time, nothing new there.  Apparently he has a list of what is required but isn't going to tell anyone what it is.  Oh yes and there is something about when you are up you are up , and when you are down you are down etc.

      Clear now smile

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
        Mark Ewbieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Lol.  Actually the list is nothing new, but most people won't have seen it.

        1. Write good, or half decent - well, passable or pornographic material.
        2. Be related in some way to either Google or the Murdoch empire.
        3. That's it.

        1. andycool profile image69
          andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          A lot of the hubbers who publish here regularly are considered professional quality writers, I've no doubt! But still their contribution to total HP inventory is less than 2%! smile

          Please do not think I'm trying to prove my superiority to others! smile

        2. C.V.Rajan profile image66
          C.V.Rajanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          smile

      2. BennyTheWriter profile image88
        BennyTheWriterposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Hey recommend1, love the panda pic.  Or rather, I hate it.  smile

    2. andycool profile image69
      andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      @ 2uesday -- Yes, you need not be a doctor, a doctor is not necessarily a good writer. It is the standard of the writing as well as the knowledge on the subject, both are equally important! The reader should be made to digest the topic readily and easily. smile

      1. WriteAngled profile image92
        WriteAngledposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So what makes you an authority to write on medical matters if you have no related qualifications? And why are you supposedly more of an authority than any person drifting into Hubpages with an equal lack of qualifications?

        Since you do not cite any authoritative sources in what you write, why should anyone believe what you say more than what anybody else is saying?

        Please don't answer that you should be believed because you are a trained journalist. Journalists come close to the bottom of the credibility ratings for different professions, just above used car salesmen and below politicians, IIRC.

        1. andycool profile image69
          andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          MY QUALIFICATION LIES IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE SUBJECT AND IN PEOPLE'S AND GOOGLE'S ACCEPTANCE OF MY CONTRIBUTIONS.

          1. WriteAngled profile image92
            WriteAngledposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            So Google, which is an algorithm, plus lay people who are hoping to find correct information, but possibly have not the first clue how to evaluate what they find, are the final arbiters of the accuracy and quality of biomedical information?

            That, sir, is a load of bovine excreta.

            1. andycool profile image69
              andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              And the kind of language you use reflects the fact that even a PhD can be a highly illiterate person. And there is no point in going into an argument with an illiterate person. smile

              http://www.thefreedictionary.com/illiterate

              1. CMHypno profile image89
                CMHypnoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I'm not really sure what you are trying to achieve here? Are you trying to antagonise people?  It is great if you have some insights into the recent Panda going on, and thanks for sharing, but what is the response that you are looking for?

                If it is admiration and followers, calling a highly respected hubber like WriteAngled illiterate is not the way to go

                1. andycool profile image69
                  andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  "If it is admiration and followers, calling a highly respected hubber like WriteAngled illiterate is not the way to go", clearly that's not what I want to achieve here! Actually I'm not here for any direct achievement... so why am I here?

                  To learn how to deal with people in the virtual world. I know how to deal with them in real world, but I have no idea about the behavioral pattern of the people online. Now I'm having some idea. In real world you've many clues to judge people like body language etc. When one is taking serious steps to start a business online, one must know how to deal with online fictitious people. HP forum is a great place to experiment with fictitious people. Thanks! smile

                  EDIT: That doesn't mean I'm here to contrive a new sales strategy! lol

                  1. CMHypno profile image89
                    CMHypnoposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Unfortunately, you are coming across like you are some kind of new redeemer sent to save mankind, and show us poor little, ignorant hubbers the way to Google heaven.

                    If this is not your intention, perhaps you need have a closer look at how you choose your words, as you seem to have a gift for rubbing people up the wrong way - not a way to success in any walk of life, even on the internet!

              2. recommend1 profile image73
                recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                This is realising itself into a Monty Python sketch big_smile

                Don't you mean "Phffd!  you are an ex-literate person"
                No, she's not !

                fang ni de goa pi !  which translates directly as "go away dog fart!" but means push off and blow your hot air somewhere else.  Gotta love the Chinese big_smile

                What was this pile of bovine excrement thread about ?

            2. Glamorously Jacob profile image61
              Glamorously Jacobposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Bovine excreta! Love it!

              1. IzzyM profile image86
                IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Me too! Brilliant expression, WriteAngled. Quite why anyone could call you illiterate after that beats me!

  4. R-J-T profile image60
    R-J-Tposted 6 years ago

    If you know people who work for google and they have told you what guidelines you need to follow, how come you only have the 1,000 views accolade after 7 months?

    1. andycool profile image69
      andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I've started actively writing from February... before Feb I had 10 hubs in my bag with merely 500 views! Please check it out... don't always be skeptical! big_smile

      My 49 hubs now enjoy 100+ views daily. And 13 of those are written in April. My total views are close to 6000 right now with algo changes. Anything else do you want to know? lol

      1. R-J-T profile image60
        R-J-Tposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Ye, Why dont you go after competitive KW if you know what is needed to rank them.?

      2. canadawest99 profile image60
        canadawest99posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Have you actually built a windmill before?   Thats what are alluding to in being a professional writer is knowing your subject, not just writing about it.

        1. andycool profile image69
          andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I never made a windmill before... for a professionally competitive writer that is not a pre-condition. Anyone who believes in it believes in myth. The reader should be made to digest the topic readily and easily.

          1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
            Mark Ewbieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I wish I could make them read. Ungrateful visitors.  They scan, sometimes flag and simply disappear.
            Now making them read it would be great. I'm going to start every piece from now on with "sit down, shut up, stop complaining and focus"

            1. andycool profile image69
              andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Hey Mark, your sense of humor is just awesome! I respect it... you know it's really very difficult for me and for others I guess to post so quickly and smartly such a humorous reply! You always supply fresh air in this stuffy weather. smile

              1. Mark Ewbie profile image84
                Mark Ewbieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Thanks andycool! Fresh air... I like that.

    2. Williamjordan profile image61
      Williamjordanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Andycool I probably do not exist to you but you can google the key words in my top 20 Hub's and I'll be on the first page, was before Panda an still are after Panda Have never been considered a good writer by Hub Pages I say to anyone know your topic and If you write well and often about that topic and understand computers you probably make money. I have had alot stolen from me by clever computer guys but I love the subjects I write about.

  5. Stacie L profile image87
    Stacie Lposted 6 years ago

    so,...I guess i need to make changes to my article every month to stay in the searches?
    let's say.change the title,make changes in some paragraphs,keep updating keywords....roll

    1. andycool profile image69
      andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not at all... if you try to do it you'll never succeed! Write it and forget it, unless you really have something to update. Your article will step up again in due course. Don't look at search engines while writing... while writing never think a search engine exists. For established writers it will take time to adjust with the new game.

      For success you've to be really prolific with quality. My definition of success is to earn at least your living exclusively from online writing.

      1. R-J-T profile image60
        R-J-Tposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        This is nothing new, this is what google has always said. Write high quality content for the readers and we will award you with organic traffic.

        The problem is if you just write good content it is very unlikely it will rank for any decent keyword even after the panda set in.

        1. andycool profile image69
          andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't have the idea that every time I wish to post in the forums I've to come up with something new! Sorry for that. sad

          1. R-J-T profile image60
            R-J-Tposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            "For established writers it will take time to adjust with the new game."

            You said it not me.

            1. LeanMan profile image81
              LeanManposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              "write it and forget it" - don't make updates....

              You are still talking Bovine excreta....

  6. PaulGoodman67 profile image91
    PaulGoodman67posted 6 years ago

    I have spoken to my friends at Google.  They know andycool's friends but my friends at Google are senior to andycool's friends.  My friends at Google have conducted rigorous surveys and proved andycool's friends to be wrong.

    Arguments over.

    ;-)

    1. C.V.Rajan profile image66
      C.V.Rajanposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      smile

  7. Richieb799 profile image62
    Richieb799posted 6 years ago

    Articles have never really reserved fixed place, they may stay there for longer periods of time but I would always have to keep backlinks as occasionally they would rise or drop a few places even at number 2 spot on 1st page

  8. Peter Hoggan profile image85
    Peter Hogganposted 6 years ago

    andycool, there are only a handful of people at Google who actually know how the algorithm works and the idea that they have discussed it with you in any depth is entirely unbelievable. Those that know such things are highly educated people who earn great money and have signed non-disclosure agreements that prohibit them from talking about such things.

    I don’t know if your OP is the result of hallucinatory drugs or voices that come to you in the night, whatever it is just go and pedal your crap elsewhere. Please don't treat people here like mindless gullible morons.

  9. tlpoague profile image88
    tlpoagueposted 6 years ago

    Please do not take offence to this comment, but I now have brain damage trying to figure out what the point of this post was. I was under the understanding that if you wrote good quality content with proper keywords, you would be able to hold your own in the world of Google.
    I am still attempting to understand the concept of Panda (which brings to my mind a fuzzy teddy bear)or the SEO and other clever words that have been flung across the forums in reference to Google and HP changes. So I guess for me, I will have to focus on my writing and just hope for the best.
    In the mean time...what was the Panda suppose to stand for?

    1. janderson99 profile image87
      janderson99posted 6 years ago in reply to this
      1. tlpoague profile image88
        tlpoagueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks! That helps.

    2. thisisoli profile image57
      thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Panda is the code name for an engineer that set this all up I think tongue

      As to how it affect you..

      It means that it will be harder for you to rank on Google with a Hubpages article (for now).

      1. tlpoague profile image88
        tlpoagueposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks! I guess it is a good thing that I don't worry about ranking. I just write and hope people like it. I have too much drama in my life to worry about a Panda (can't help but still think of a teddy bear.. smile ) I was just concerned that I may have missed a rule change that would affect my hub. Thanks again!

  10. BobbiRant profile image60
    BobbiRantposted 6 years ago

    Nobody paid attention to the fact that the 'free and open' Internet was heading for a nose dive thanks to Google doing all it could to rake in big monies for themselves.

  11. thisisoli profile image57
    thisisoliposted 6 years ago

    My 2c here, I remember you coming on to this site about 7 months ago asking basic SEO questions, how long Adsense applications  take, and mentioning that you had never even built your own website.

    While it is possible to talk to people at Google about their SE algorithm, it is not easy, and most of the opportunities I have had have been chance encounters at events such as PubCon and Affiliate Summit. I have talked to Google, Yahoo, and Bing search engine 'programmers' (Read - technical marketing guys most likely) before.

    Even then the information they give you is not technical (they won't give you for instance, the exact weight a certain ranking factor has).

    Google rankings have not occupied a fixed place for year, there has been an initial boost for a long time.

    The information you have given in your OP does not bring much to the table, yes, more prolific writing will give you more results, but that has not changes pre or post panda, infact most websites did not see any change at all after the Panda update.

    When it comes to how 'quality' is viewed by Google, we only have indicators, we do not have 'defined rules'. Don't believe that, look out for names such as Rand Fishkin, Brett Tabke, Shawn Collins. They will agree with what I just said.

    We can work on known indicators of article quality, in some cases there are even a few ways to alter things that not many people know about. But saying you need to write more articles post panda is incorrect, and pointing out the initial ranking boost as post panda is just plain wrong.

    I don't mean to go off on one here, but I have serious doubts about your rigorous survey, for starters how did you double blind test it, how did you track the results?

    1. andycool profile image69
      andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Are you familiar with the terms Statistical Inference, 95 per cent Confidence Interval or 99 per cent Confidence Interval? If you're then you should know it's a child's play to analyse data by employing a simple or stratified (for more accuracy, I employed the latter) random sampling model and you can come 95% closer to the fact, provided you're a skilled surveyor.

      1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
        prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        where did you get your data, for your niche perhaps (but even then that is too small, negligible sample - not even a representative of a certain niche) but that doesn't generalize the experience of all sp. niches, and you can never get as close as 95 percent confidence interval CI if you did take your hubs as sample.

        SRS - stratified random sampling? where did you get the data, by age, sex? even the owner of HP doesn't know those info.

        Thisisoli has a site thisisfreelance.com, http://www.thisisfreelance.com/ you might want to apply for revenue sharing.

        1. andycool profile image69
          andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You don't have any idea of statistical sampling... that's crystal clear from your post. All HP hubs is my population, not my hubs. The survey is hardly related to my hubs! Who told you the stratum should always be consisted of age and sex? Perhaps Wikipedia! What qualification do you have is Stats? I've graduate level degrees in both Stats and Maths.

          PS: This kind of posts only reveals how unprofessional people could be, total nonsense. All of you're attacking me personally for saying something you don't like. But don't forget there are people beyond this forum and who hardly appear in the forums. They're with me! How many of all the hubbers appear in the forums?

          1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
            prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            I am a demographer and used to run sample census survey data using SPSS. How do you know all HP hubs, where did you get the data? I didn't say just age and sex? that is why it is question mark?

            Perhaps you can read Pandas second article above and explain more to us (that is more useful) since you are a graduate student of Stat and Math.

          2. recommend1 profile image73
            recommend1posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            People are not attacking you because they don't like you - mostly I would say they don't like you attacking everythign in sight and demonstating a penchant for big words you haven't really grasped properly - or how the pieces you refer to fit together.  You have claimed big, spoken twaddle and added nothing to the discussion.

            Having said that - you have a right to your opinion and your say - but you do demonstrate Oscar Wilde's perfect coment on people of your condition -
            "I am not young enough to know everything"

      2. Peter Hoggan profile image85
        Peter Hogganposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Surely statistical inference is NOT required if someone at Google is passing you insider information.

      3. thisisoli profile image57
        thisisoliposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I know that if you are using a confidence interval you are using unknown quantities but hold a percentage of the data.  I sincerely doubt you hold 95% of the data you would need to run an SEO report on how the Panda update affected Hubpages with 95% confidence.

        What strata did you use?

        I own a huge number of websites, as well as articles on Hubpages, so I can infer ideas as to why certain places are losing rank. However your post has not actually addressed the reasons behind Hubpages losing SERP, it has just displayed some already known basic SEO knowledge and wrapped it up as an insider tip from Google itself?

  12. prettydarkhorse profile image64
    prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago

    andycool- Biswanath Panda is an employee of Google and he came out with the learning tree for this new update - (the new algorithm was named after him) Panda update -  that is why Amit Singhal and Matt Cutts during their interview after the first roll out (Feb. 24, 2011) told people that they got the name after him - BTW he is an American Indian like Amit.

    from wired.com http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/03/ … tes-farms/  Amit Singhal: Well, we named it internally after an engineer, and his name is Panda. So internally we called a big Panda. He was one of the key guys. He basically came up with the breakthrough a few months back that made it possible.

    These are the two articles of Panda et al - the learning tree - second one
    http://www.google.com/research/pubs/author38399.html

  13. prettydarkhorse profile image64
    prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago

    And BTW, I have some researches posted in wikipedia (not by me), I don't know who posted them, demographic studies using statistics.  I can't put a link (privacy reasons), but I can assure you I know what I am saying and I am not questioning any peoples credentials etc., although for your information, I am also short of dissertation for this related topic/area we are talking about.

    I just want somebody to explain Biswanath Pandas research paper, that is too technical for me. I think you can do that as you have better qualifications.

    1. andycool profile image69
      andycoolposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Enough is enough! I'm not going to participate in the forums in future... that's a promise! Thank you all. smile

      1. IzzyM profile image86
        IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        A promise made in writing too.

      2. Peter Hoggan profile image85
        Peter Hogganposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        You will be gladly missed.

  14. prettydarkhorse profile image64
    prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago

    "I just want somebody to explain Biswanath Pandas research paper, that is too technical for me. I think you can do that as you have better qualifications".

    That is true BTW (not with insult), you can help us with that being a graduate student for both Stat and Math.

    1. IzzyM profile image86
      IzzyMposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      He's not going to reply, Maita. He doesn't know the answer, but it's easier for him to say he will never post n the forums again than admit that.

      1. Peter Hoggan profile image85
        Peter Hogganposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        prettydarkhorse, this article and the links from it might help.
        http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=5194

        1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
          prettydarkhorseposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          thank you. I will read it now.

    2. sabrebIade profile image83
      sabrebIadeposted 6 years ago

      I guess that's why scraped content outranks original in searches.
      They are expert scrapers!
      I suppose I should stop filing those DMCAs huh?

    3. tony0724 profile image59
      tony0724posted 6 years ago

      You know I just don't worry about that stuff ranking, traffic , analytics or any of that. I write because it is my passion and enjoyment. All that other stuff is insignificant to me. And if people like it all the better !

    4. brandonhart100 profile image82
      brandonhart100posted 6 years ago

      I have to say that I have many articles that either go against the grain with what this topic is saying or nullify its validity. smile

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