Paul Edmonson's TechCrunch Post

1. 64

   Mutiny92posted 12 years ago

   http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/05/google … mpetition/
   
   In case you have not seen it...I think the article is well put together and very pointed.

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2. 71

   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   I'll agree. I just read it.

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3. 60

   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   I, too, just read it. The man definitely says what’s on his mind.

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4. 87

   SimeyCposted 12 years ago

   Hmmm looks like I should transfer all my hubs to Youtube and Blogger!
   
   I have to agree though - surely quality content is quality content regardless of where it 'sits' - there seems to be a lot of people who flag the whole of HP as crap - that is simply not the case!
   
   Such a shame.....

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   1. 69

      tritrainposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Just take a video of you scrolling through your Hubs.
      
      That should do the trick!

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5. 67

   Pearldiverposted 12 years ago

   I hope this comes up at #1 on the SEs when you scroogle the newest set of Valuable Keywords 'Nah-Nah-Nah-Takethat'
   I have to say that I was quite concerned about the reference to 1000s of articles on how to BBQ Chicken
   I don't believe there are any wwwwww.bbqyourchickendotcom here are there?

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6. 43

   Mikeydoesposted 12 years ago

   I'm just wondering how long it takes before the turn around comes. It might be a gamble, but putting out large numbers of hubs might end up paying off big in the long run. Assuming you will be able to keep it.
   
   Google should be buying out sites like these and there should be jobs spawning from this, not the other way around.

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7. 72

   sunforgedposted 12 years ago

   Quite a Gamble! ^ - most prefer informed risks or even educated guesses, Speaking of gambles..........
   
   
   Important Note from article: Google has not offered assistance, site changes are all internal gambles
   
   That article makes me mad, I wish something like that was published here or shared with the existing community before launched into the public arena.

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   1. 43

      Mikeydoesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, I think a little bit more talking to us would definetly help the moral. I come to check and see for updates daily. But othing we don't already know.

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   2. 67

      Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well under the circumstances it may be a bit of a Gamble based on the Right Hand not Knowing What the Left Hand is doing.. But the Left Hand Knowing the Right
      
      @MD - Clearly you support the global takeover strategies and initiatives of the scroogle party. It will be a Sad Day when they have grown another 30%.. Selling HP to an entity like that will ONLY Benefit the shareholders... certainly not contributors - it would be stripped out and scrapped within a week! (To remove any potential class action claim made by the article owners). Effectively, 18 months of growth in Capital Value has been stripped from the value of HP... So commercially, they have to press on... And remove the ability of SEs negatively influencing future development and growth.
      I hope they can do that, more openly and eventually become a key reason why that SE gets put in their box.

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   3. 72

      Maddie Ruudposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not sure where you read that, as Paul certainly did not say it.  We have had some limited feedback from Google, but they are definitely not as helpful and transparent as we'd like, especially since they do not seem very consistent (as in the example of YouTube, referenced by Paul).  The changes we have been making across the site are not simply a stab in the dark in reaction to Panda.  We've said before, and we'll say again, we are using this opportunity to make some larger changes across the site, to better address known issues and stay one step ahead of the curve.  Many of the policy changes you've seen over the last few weeks were in discussion prior to the Panda debacle.

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      1. 57

         TerryGlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well, it's obviously not working.
         
         Do you have a plan B?
         
         
         
         Now Maddie, your saying you have had limited feedback from Google, and Jason is saying Google is telling you -
         
         Which one of you do we believe? Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing or are you all running around in the dark?
         
         This is typical of the mixed messages you are all sending out to hubbers.

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      2. 72

         sunforgedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         No need to mince words, there are two possible scenarios:
         
         1.We are taking this "opportunity" to use Panda as a rationale for changing and breaking our existing agreements although we did  have it planned all along.
         
         2.We are trying our best to bring the site into the guidelines that Google has defined to us.
         
         
         The part I was responding to is:
         
         
         
         Sure "little response" is a bit different from "google has not offered assistance" , but not enough to be worth a second glance.
         Obviously, they cant have offered much if TechCrunch and GoogleWebmasterForums are getting these public pleas.
         
         I dont think the "whole step ahead of the curve" part was serious, was it?   My issue relates to the changes in income opportunities, I know as a site owner that it is quite easy to rank and provide value to searchers with nothing but aff links. A good comparison between competing retailers made up of all afflinks can still top the SERP's - here at HP those capsules and terms contributed to related longtail searches. This sites change hurt a great many peoples income and is not something that is vetted by the Panda update or google input. It was an internal gamble as I stated. If its not a gamble, how about sharing some awesome data and resources with the community, anything that is not internal, anything you guys can link to help the rest of us out as publishers and often contributors at the site?
         
         "Because we said so" works since you own and operate the site, but I dont see why the info would need to be guarded.
         
         If they are not gambles, whats it based on?

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         1. 0

            shazwellynposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I think it has always been a trial and error thing.  HP just hit on the right algor at the right time, but now, with the changes over the last year (multiple changes) the mix is harder to decipher and be compatible with.
            
            Experimentation has been a paramount forte with you (and me) in the past, too, SF.  This is just a series of further challenges that need to be worked through (.... until the next change and, ultimately, the next challenge!).

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8. 83

   K9keystrokesposted 12 years ago

   I find the idea that google is being reviewed for monopoly violations to be very interesting. According to what I read in comments (taken with a grain of salt of course) they have over 60% of the market...leaving around 30% for the rest. Could be considered as being fast on its way to FTC monitoring or review? Where does this leave HP should they be charged? Just wondering.

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9. 67

   Michael Willisposted 12 years ago

   Excellent article. Of course Google would not penalize it's own sites. Beating down the competition is the best Business policy.

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10. 43

    Mikeydoesposted 12 years ago

    I don't want Hubpages to be sold, but Google along with many other companies SHOULD be bidding on it and sites like it. Although that is clearly not happening, is all I meant. They are probably trying to devalue all the competitor sites so they can make their own more profitable and much better than anything less wealthy company or group of people could get together.
    
    Honestly I wish there were a bunch more sites so that we don't have to rely on Google. And I wish these sites were all similar to Hubpages, but much more profitable. I do not support it at all. The hit in earnings I just took is the only reason I want Google back.
    
    There is no way our income should not increase. Exponentially in the future, if not there is something very wrong with society and I'm going to be a very unhappy camper.

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11. 61

    BobbiRantposted 12 years ago

    I wrote a few hubs concerning the monopoly issues with Google. Google had this stuff in mind for a Long time, no one paid attention.  First they tried to make a deal with Verizon to spring sites to the top of the search engine for big money.  That deal fell through.  If I owned 65% of the search query, Who do You think I'd favor?  Silly question.  The 'Free and Open Internet' that catapulted Google to the top has been done away with by Google.  They benefited from it, but want to deny any of us from benefiting from a free and open Internet.  I am sure it's gone because, as usual, no one paid attention.  There Was a petition going around months ago to stop Google.  Few heeded it.

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    1. 87

       Dorsiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       This is exactly what I worry about. A monopoly.

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12. 60

    Eric Graudinsposted 12 years ago

    They say that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    To that I'll add normalised graphs.
    
    Paul's attempt to show that Hubpages is the equivalent of YouTube is really clutching at straws.
    Hub pages traffic is about one hundredth that of YouTube so I believe that Paul's attempt at direct comparison is not valid for this and many other reasons.
    
    The recent changes at HP with new rules, mass unpublishings, and kneejerk reactions to improve "Quality" have done nothing to stop the declining traffic and rankings.
    To me, this indicates that HP don't really have a clue what they are doing.
    The result is a snowball effect as more and more hubs are unpublished, good writers remove their content, and traffic continues to drop like a stone.
    
    Funny how other adsense sites with varied content have not suffered traffic loss. In fact, traffic has increased.(ie www.howstuffworks.com)
    What are they doing that Hubpages isn't? (or vice-versa)
    
    
    (P.S. I'm sure that if I try hard enough I could produce some sort of normalised graph, which would show that HP traffic has actually increased over the past 3 months)
    
    cheers, Eric G.

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13. 67

    Pearldiverposted 12 years ago

    I am Also concerned that out of the 1000s of Articles on How To BBQ Your Chicken .... 
    NONE of them Appear on the First Page of Google Anymore and I Can't Find them in the links HIDDEN among the Competition Stuff..

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    1. 88

       mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Jeez, that is our next BBQ ruined

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       1. 60

          Eric Graudinsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I don't need no smeggin' recipe to BBQ chicken!

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          1. 88

             mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             LOL, me neither, I prefer steak

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          2. 67

             Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Hey hang on a second Eric and Eric...
             Sorry, I think I Left the all important breadcrumb keyword out of the equation...
             See how it looks now young fella and fella..
             Add the Keywood 'Spring' to the recipe and check out the difference
             
             It should now read:
             
             We Have: 1000s of articles on How To BBQ Your Spring Chicken
             
             NOW If THAT Doesn't Hit the First Page.. Then either the Bloody Birds must have eaten The Breadcrumbs, or there aren't many Spring Chickens out there that want to be picked up by Google on the basis of the Feathers they wear or the Length of their Tails  
             
             
             
             - YEP... I Got this One when I scroogled it..
             Bugger that's No Spring Chicken!!
             
             What's Going On Here? 

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             1. 60

                Eric Graudinsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Dunno. This thread is Starting to make about as much sense at Paul's TechCrunch post.

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                1. 67

                   Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     You mean there was still another reason why breadcrumbs were used?

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                   1. 71

                      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Actually, I would say yes. I use them in my meatloaf when I make it.

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                      1. 57

                         TerryGlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         I use breadcrumbs to throw people off the scent, so they do not really find out what I am on about and get a big surprise at the end of the trail.

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                         1. 67

                            Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            I've Seen That Too
                            
                            What can you do with 1000s of BBQd Spring Chickens then Terry?

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                            1. 57

                               TerryGlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                               Oh I would put some spin on it that there not really bbq'd but look like it and those that aren't I will sell off as pork sandwiches.
                               
                               Kinda reminds me of here really. Say one thing, call a spade a spade but it really isn't a spade at all. And, if anyone thinks it actually is a spade I will turn around and say its a shovel.
                               
                               That'll confuse them.

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                               1. 67

                                  Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                  You Mean People CAN take their 'Pick?'

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    2. 57

       BaliMermaidposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Hey Pearl Diver,
       
       Is Mr68 still copying all of our hubs, and bookmarking those copies too? Could not that have had more than just something to do with the hit hubpages got during panda.
       
       An OMG I am still waiting for you to answer my PM about who that really was - inside or outside that was, and hopefully is not still, doing that crap.
       
       Any chance of finding out what happened?  I'll be in San Fran soon and thought I might drop in on Hubpages office.

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14. 87

    IzzyMposted 12 years ago

    Well, it's shame this thread went OT, because no-one either here nor in the comments on that page mentioned Paul's comment on TechCrunch, where he says he published original content here on Hubpages, then a few days later copied his own content on to Google Knol, where it now ranks higher than the original article. This is exactly the type of thing that the new algorithm was supposed to stop - scraped content ranking higher than original. Isn't that an algorithm failure?

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    1. 67

       Michael Willisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       lol, not shocked at all. Google Knol is Google's. Self-serving algorithm change.

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       1. 87

          IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Yes but I really don't think it was intended to work that way. They specifically said that scraped content would be pushed down the SERPS, regardless of the platform.
          
          Instead, what we seem to have is scraped content rising to the top, if it published on the 'right' platform.
          
          This is a message to spammers to just steal whatever content they want and publish it on Google Knol or similar site if they want rankings. 
          
          That deosn't seem right, does it?

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    2. 69

       tritrainposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       That's an interesting experiment.
       
       Although, I've not seen ANY traffic to content that I had posted on Knol.  But I get regular traffic to other content elsewhere. 
       
       I just don't get it.

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       1. 57

          Mrvoodooposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          'Although, I've not seen ANY traffic to content that I had posted on Knol.  But I get regular traffic to other content elsewhere.'
          
          Same.  Was any evidence of this offered?  As I've always found Knol to be worse than useless.  Unless of course, it has changed dramatically since Panda.
          
          The whole post sounds a lot like hubbers complaining about the massive sweeping changes implemented by HP that affected earnings negatively here: "we're being treated unfairly, they're not telling us anything, etc."  And I'm guessing that HP will receive the same response from Google that hubbers were given (if they get one at all) if you don't like it, you know what you can do...
          
          Karma?

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    3. 68

       Peter Hogganposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Have a read of my latest hub, this is one of the points I cover.

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       1. 87

          IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Excellent hub Peter, and it's comforting to read of other quality sites affected too. I happen to think a good deal of the pages on HP are quality and original, despite its bad Press. But reading the forums out there you'd be forgiven for thinking everyone is over the moon at the Panda results. I think you have the right idea. Use Bing.

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          1. 74

             Richieb799posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Bing is returning almost exactly the same top 10 results for my website niche as Google, except my website appears on Google page 1 and not on Bing page 1 and halfway down page 2..so I'm sticking with Google for the moment lol

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             1. 87

                IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Well that's good to know. I guess. Google is also returning my new website at the top of page 2 when it really has no content except for an intro page. Would be useless to visitors. In fact I am quite ashamed that such a pathetic site has reached that high.

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                1. 87

                   IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   In fact, if I had no sense of etiquette, what I should do now is scrape content off other sites and place it in my 'keyword in url' site and maybe it would go to #1.
                   
                   Not going to do that of course, I will write all my own content, but it just goes to show something is wrong with the algo. My site is nowhere to be found on Bing, and rightly so.

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    4. 87

       Dorsiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Yes.

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15. 84

    psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

    Why on earth do people thing Google shouldn't be self-serving? It is a private, profit-making company with shareholders.  The choices really are 1) find areas of mutual self-benefit, and/or 2) use other monetizing services.

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    1. 67

       Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Here Is A 'HUB' by Pearldiver it is called:
       
       "Read The Whole Picture."
       
       Do you understand what Anti-Trust Statutes are? 
       
       If You Do then you should understand how the entire Internet is being F'ed with by this SE in TOTAL DISREGARD To those Laws and the good faith that companies like HP and alike have applied to Their Own understanding and practice of those statutes.  That 'good faith' is being systematically abused to achieve specific goals.  Then that problem is being passed on down the line (like musical chairs if you like)..
       
       Now That is A Starting Point...
       
       If You Don't Understand what I'm talking about then 'Yahoo It' or Get Yourself a Law Degree...
       But PLEASE STOP Bitching and Speculating about things that you Clearly are Not Fully and Sufficiently Informed about to Offer a Realistic Opinion!
       Watch and Learn and Then Act... there are MAJOR World Changes going on ATM..
       If You Intend to be a Writer or Someone who wishes to make REAL MONEY (Not a few cents) online, THEN You MUST LEARN... You MUST UNDERSTAND And READ The Potential Course of Those Changes. Because if You CAN'T Then You Can NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT Options Are Available to HP and More Importantly to:YOU.
       
       As I said... There is a STARTING POINT..
       Go Start there, rather than be an expert with NO PRACTICAL UNDERSTANDING Of The Industry You Think Gives a Damn About You! People Care.. Industries Don't.
       
       Google are Forcing Companies All over the World TO CHANGE.. that's Fine.. Change is good, BUT they are forcing a HERD CHANGE (Like herding sheep into a Holding Pen). Then they can Cull The Ones (Businesses, People, Opportunities, Markets etc.) that can or could influence or Block Google's Strategic Progress.
       HP as a 'Media' business is a threat and is currently (Irrespective of WHAT YOU THINK OR ARE BEING TOLD) being 'CULLED' by Google (and are also subject to an either shape up or ship out scenario). To Anyone Who UNDERSTANDS the 'PLAY' here (with Google).. Clearly, HP got bushwhacked a bit in regard to it's understanding of it's relationship with Google! That stands out like Ears on an Apple, to anyone who reads the 'play' that HP have then passed on down the line... To the Writers. - Yet another thoughtlessly created issue.
       
       As Result of All This.. a whole raft of issues have now become relevant... A bit like letting thieves Steal Content and NOT Shutting them down.. eventually the thief ends up in the winning position and we loose. (The Snowball rolling down the hill principal if you like).
       
       A Far more serious issue that HP has created as a result of that issue is: To not communicate or be transparent in it's efforts to make those changes that it feels relevant (as a business needing to survive) to make as a result of the actual (and admitted) misinterpretation of their relationship with the SE.
       Effectively that is the VERY WAY IN HOW they were able to be Bushwhacked in the first place (by being Complacent or Negligent in Identifying the Threat that G poses to the business).. Google have suckered them ONLY BECAUSE They Allowed That To Happen... eg: Let Their Guard Down, or Got Caught with 10,000s of Rubbish Articles and Empty Account Holders.
       
       Now, to those of us that can see beyond the Smoke and Mirrors and BS.. It is quite an insult that the writers have been Tossed Out of the Life Boats unceremoniously, to Allow further Poor Decisions To Be Made! I say this because EVERY DECISION at HP HAS BEEN A DECISION MADE Under a Regime of Crisis Management.. probably from the realization that they are Potential Losers in the debacle. If this is Not The Case; Then HP have been fully aware of what they have been doing and they have abused the Duty of Care that the writers (by agreement) were entitled to reasonably expect from HP... Now That's an Interesting Point Isn't It? Yet it is How Most of The More Senior and Experienced Writers In this community Feel.
       
       HP HAVE FACTUALLY DESERTED IT'S STRENGTH - The Very Strength that set HP apart from others - It's Stable of Quality Writers, the REAL People! While that is denied by HP, it is a fact that most of those that have been for the last 2 years loyal to HP, have Left and left disgruntled. Their Businesses are effected by HP decisions, the very same way HP's business is claimed by HP to have been effected by Google!
       
       Now BEFORE You start Criticizing What I have just stated.. Go Learn About Business, Anti-Trust Statutes and Strategic Planning... And Then You Will REALLY Appreciate What HP Management MUST DO and What They Have OR Have Not Done! It WILL ALSO Explain Why Some of the Top Writers is this Community Have Issued the management here A Vote Of No Confidence in regard to THESE ISSUES - That YOU Either DO or DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND!
       
       I don't know how else to say... But Please Everyone WAKE UP.. Ditch the SE that is Screwing the potentials of all of us.. form alliances with others in the same situation and Fight their attempts to Own 100% of the World Media and control it's Communications.
       
       Like Many, I Hope That the management of this company can also learn and Have the Courage To BE A Leader Not a Follower in this Industry... I Hate Watching People Drown, without the ability to know that they can Actually Swim, if they Just Tried!  Thanks For Reading My Hub.... PD.

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16. 61

    SunSevenposted 12 years ago

    "In the end it is always about ethics and all about personal values. That is why it is very important for every society to create checks and balances. That is why it is very important for every society not to create incentives for people to become greedier. That is why it is very important for all of us in the corporate world to create incentives for long-term performance rather than short-term performance. When you create systems that focus on short-term performance, when you create a system that reveres money rather than decency, honesty and respect, when you make it a fashion for youngsters to revel in the power of their wealth, it is inevitable."
    
    - Narayana Murthy
    
    I happen to think that the quote above is apt, under the circumstances.
    
    Best Regards

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17. 72

    sunforgedposted 12 years ago

    Proper experimentation requires a baseline.
    
    Between Panda, HPads, Breadcrumb microformat, massive loss of content good and bad, etc etc etc
    
    I dont see how any of the changes implemented could be tested.
    
    Plus the ad layout is pants - get some experimenting in there! right quick!
    
    - But, I cant get worked up - still got some Sinatra playing and having a great old time.
    
    I think my response was solid, when questioned why I used a specific word, I usually do pick the word I intend.
    
    Im more of this frame of mind now......
    
    "An American monkey, after getting drunk on brandy, would never touch it again, and thus is much wiser than most men."
    
    "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."

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