HP before Panda was a great community, a wonderful place with wonderful writers. After Panda, the dynamics have changed. We still have great writers, but folks aren't publishing as much.
So, if you were a HP decision-maker, what would YOU do to reinvigorate the community and the site?
I would do something like this:
link put back in :p
<no self-promotional links, please>
not a live link
Have a stimulus as to Why to write here over another site. Interact with the community and make moves to encourage best practices in topic selection, seo and marketing.
Im not just theorizing here, lol, its actually what I try and do!
I would make Hubpages an invite only site or one that could only attract writers that write the good stuff and all the fluff would never ever make it to a published status, the business of hubpages being unpublished for having an affiliate link would not happen.
I'd cut the staff, some nice downsizing, then I'd make sure that the unpublishing of good trafficked hubs would be kept to a minimum or made non existent as we all know there can be filters put in place to detect spun content and this manual human review sounds nice and everything, but technology is there for a reason to make large jobs run with automation cutting down the need for more moderators.
There are other things I'd do, but I'm busy dominating various niches in the art world through YouTube and other secret domains, so I'll be back to see next year if Hubpages is still here and I may just publish some more stuff!
I think having user ads shown on the Q & A section would be helpful. As it stands, I could really care less about the Q&A section.
A BIG issue for me is the modding that has been going on.
I personally haven't had any problems with my hubs that have required fixing. That said, a ton of users with good content have. Even more so, users with "decent" content have had problems with moderation. I have been hearing a lot of complaints. My big complaint with that is that I think before users with good content and decent content have been modded, maybe there would be as many complaints if the complete CRAP content that is on the site was removed first.
I STILL see content that is scraped from other websites, doesn't make sense, is a compilation of scraped sentences from other sites, stuff that is seriously just totally a mixture of words put on a page... and it's STILL here after me reporting it months ago.
I just think that the mods should have removed content or modded content with a score of 20-30 before modding and disabling content in the 70s to 80s.
The last idea is probably the most likely to get shot down by HP, but I thought I'd suggest it. However, I think it would personally get me to write more. I think a pay tier system would be kind of cool based on idk, a mixture of author scores (to prevent people just writing a ton of crap hubs) and a mixture of the number of hubs you get published and you qualify for a higher tier of ad views. For example, I currently get 60% like all of HubPages users, but maybe at 50 hubs I could get 61% (it's not a huge increase, but heck, I'd reach for it) at 100 hubs I could get 65%, and 500 I could get 70% and at 1000 I could get 75% (because at that point, I think a user deserves that much.) If that were the case, I would start producing MUCH more content. As it currently stands (at 60%) every time I write an article, I debate as to whether or not I should publish on one of my niche sites (or create a whole new niche site for it) versus publishing it here.
In order to raise the ratio of quality articles additional rewards for the writers of quality pages might be a way forward.
I think that "spun" and otherwise low quality content should be equally discouraged.
Me personally - I think that the best thing that I can do for this site is to concentrate on my niches, and improving my own work.
I know that sounds sort of "Randian" or "trickle down - ish," but in this case I think we all need to pull up the people who have potential, flag the trash, and improve our own games.
Anytime you get into the marketing aspect of web pages - Mr. Sunforged. . . .is the person to follow.
The Pandaganda has been strange. I've seen some of my hubs really take off after it, but traffic is definitely down - but is actually starting to rebound a bit.
A question that I'd like to have answered here, if possible, is this: Have the value of these dofollow backlinks been affected by the Panda/Farmer update?
Look how quick they are to snip links? Wish they put that speed and energy into more wholesome activities.
Thats one of the major flaws in this forum, link sharing by brainless trolls to poli and religious ideas , all good! - Information on online writing, examples of sites and methodology - nope ,must be self promotional!
There is no advertising on that site and the forum has sections dedicated to hubpages and online writing tools
But, anyways, i put it back as a non-link as its exactly how I would answer this question.
I would attempt to make up for the failure of my platform and the loss of hubs and hub authors who provided online help by making an effort to do something along the lines of the hubcamp but at a larger scale taking advantage of the internet and online communication tools
Look they cut it again
It wasnt a link
SO if you want to see an example of what i think would be a good methodology for invigorating HP, just go to the xobba facebook
not a link ^
Now - I blast this forum thread about to show off how HP is using their time.. geesh , how about a response to my emails, its only been 3 weeks or so, hasn't made it up the queue just yet?
I would take a look at two different groups of writers:
1) how to attract new writers
2) what to do to cause existing writers to produce more
For the existing writers, I would focus on communicating how all the new changes have improved HP and made it a BETTER place.
Existing writers might also be interested in career development (writing skills, time management, case studies on writing, how to pair websites to complement hubs - or hubs to complement websites, etc)
Just like successful companies have dedicated human resource departments to analyze and develop the workforce, so should HP.
ill try a different approach.
As a person who does operate more than one site that is partly dependent on user submissions and in the past was involved in Print magazines and Newspapers, my approach would be as follows.
Provide a Benefit to using the platform (earnings on HP are not a benefit specific to HP - community and ease of publishing were the benefits specific)
Provide a means to educate and/or steer towards strong topics or formats
My recent attempt followed this format:
June Buying Guide Writing Contest at *****
In Commemoration of *****'s final programming and functionality additions being complete, I am pleased to announce June's Contest, "Buying Guides at *****"
Since ***** boasts the most fully featured Amazon functionality of any Impression Sharing Site on the Net it is only fitting that the inaugural contest highlights this functionality.
Additionally, as ***** is touted as the "Learn as You Earn" platform, the rewards for this contest will be a full library of online marketing and writing books sent brand new from Amazon to your Door.
You can see the 3 books available to the Grand Prize Winner here:
There is a 4th book pictured that will be awarded as a bonus to the Grand Prize Winner should their successful article make a sale on X impression during the contest period and show 3 offsite backlinks indexed by Google.
With some variance based on cost of shipping the Grand Prize value is approximately $40 USD
1. Submissions Must be made by registered ***** Partners
(Apply here: http://*****.com/become-a-*****-writer/ )
***** Partners Must Have completed their User Profile
(No One wants to see "Authors bio is coming up shortly." at the conclusion of your article
2. Submissions must be in the Buying Guide Category and fit the requirements for "Buying Guide" as follows:
A minimum of 3 items must be showcased and examined.
A minimum of 2 Images will be used - At least one in the body of the article and one as "Featured Image"
Full Use of SEO Options must be in effect.
Target Keyword Phrase used in Title , Image Options (Image Description, Alt and File Names) Wordpress Tags and Meta boxes
Model numbers or similar long tail specific description must be used in subtitles (h2 or h3) and also placed in tags and meta locations (example: not iPad case but rather "Otterbox Ipad Commuter Series Case" )
A minimum of 2 varieties of Amazon functionality must be included
Some direct reference to the Amazon function must be made, the viewer will be made aware that the links lead to Amazon at some point in your copy.
The Proofreader function will return no errors except for "jargon or brand names" that are not in its dictionary.
Articles will be tagged "SellContest"
I personally will be checking compliance to the terms above before passing on submission to Judge. Except for the elements regarding Amazon and model numbers the rest is just normal best practice for properly optimizing your work to perform to the best if its ability on the net and specifically using the Wordpress platform.
Submissions will be judged by My Mother in Law to be! Why?... you should ask, are you twisting in some odd nepotism to a contest?
Actually, she is my secret weapon!
Because, she is the least internet savvy person I have ever met. But, nonetheless is a highly intelligent member of the Legal Profession with a well adapted BS filter. She is the perfect everywoman to run sales copy by.
A good copywriter should be able to sell her on their products and convince her to click through to Amazon but it will be important to tell her where and why you are sending her places.
There is no limit on number of submissions
Submissions can be made by ***** Partners between 6/5/2011 and 6/30/2011 , final results will be announced and reward proceedings instituted by July 7th
All submissions will be promoted after the conclusion of the contest across *****/XXXXXXX Networks, as always all content remains your to use as you please, submission or winning of contest in no way changes your normal rights to your works at *****.
for those who dont normally sway for sales related copy this could be a great tool to try out different methods and techniques but rest assured next months contest will be promoting a different skillset.
So that would be an example of an approach I feel has benefits implicit to a single platform and focuses on spurring a measure of quality and thoroughness.
Anything I could do to make that approach better? I am actually all ears
I think this an awesome topic and will be eating up responses. Its the type of community feedback that should be absorbed by any website admin or community manager.
I think also honest feedback is probably good for invigorating the site, there is no evidence that "changes have improved the site" because the most important factor is yet to be addressed - new accounts are created every second that create poor content, the spam dams havent been made but writers acting in good faith have been pushed away.
So some admittance of a "period of experimentation" or an offer to create revenue bonuses in impression share or something of that sort (IB does that) to make up for site failings during this time would be invigorating
I think patience and calm are the order of the day.
It's usually the spastic reflex that gets you stung, not the fact a bee landed on you.
Shadesbreath, I am mixed on "waiting."
On one hand, there are definitely things we can do now to help the overall community (like helping to minimize the amount of junk on the site).
On the other hand, time will help everyone identify what will work better post-panda.
I would change the hub score algorithm such that it’s heavily based on quality inbound links pointing to a hub.
Is Squidoo really so inspiringly awesome that it should be a model?
Squidoo was not hit too badly by panda update
Squidoo was hit pretty bad a couple years ago, but seems to have bounced back (Just as I beleive HubPages will). I've seen more Squidoo Lenses on the SERPS than I have Hubpages lately.
I do have a Squidoo account, but my heart remains at Hubpages.
How would that encourage people to write more or attract new authors?
Replace existing personnel, with better, more knowledgeable people, who actually give a damn.
Just a thought.
The value proposition of HP has definitely changed post Panda. Before, HP pages easily rank higher than my own site, but now, there is no longer that extra oomph.
To entice people to start publishing again, I think there are several things that HP can explore -
1. Provide free content for hubbers to use. In particular, give hubbers free access to high quality images, or even videos(that are only available to HP users).
2. Help writers with promoting their content. Most writers are good at writing, but may not know as much about promoting their articles. Instead of spending advertising dollars on "Make More Money on HubPages" ads, perhaps they could focus some advertising dollars on promoting high quality hubs and establishing HP as the goto place for certain high quality topics.
Another thing that would be helpful is to have some white-hat experts on hand who can not only give advice to hubbers on promotion, but also help them do it in an effective way.
Also, HP already has a very nice community of writers. Admin should focus a lot more effort on building out that social aspect - but in a way that will help writers with promoting their work. For example, they could actively encourage good writers who are interested in the same topic to group together and do guest postings, cross-commenting, etc. And not just on HP but across their own personal sites and back to HP.
HP could also diversify their offerings and create a marketplace for writers to sell their work.
Hi Shiba, access to high quality images would be great. Since I have to painstakingly create my own images using paint dot com and other similar programs, I would welcome access to high quality images.
Most people including me don't have the patience to go through the TOS of free image sites so they totally stay away from using such images.
My hats off to all those white hat dudes whom you suggest be incorporated into the campaigns that you have in mind.
Wooves! (Plural of woof!)
You could become a white hat dude too. All you need to do is get this hat -
I would totally be on board with the high quality images for HP. Even happy to contribute my pro-photo and design work --to some degree--
I think this would require at least a by-line though, as courtesy counts. Possibly some tit-for-tat Hub love or something.
That is a great idea.
Facilitating positive community building and sharing efforts, such as this, will do more for HP in the long-run than trying to chase Google's tail.
I love that idea too! What a great way to encourage people to contribute with pictures, photos, etc and in exchange for using them in a hub, the creator receives credit.
It would encourage a whole new creative side to HP - especially if there was a way to monetize this.
Quicksand, if you have no patience, then you'll never earn money online.
It takes about five minutes to understand how to get legal images from free photo sites or Flickr. I wrote a Hub about how to use Flickr images, it's child's play.
Marisa I read your flickr hub and I enjoyed how thorough you were. The directions are complete and easy to follow. I believe many people will find it extremely helpful (especially your cat lovin' hub buddy DML). Nice job.
EDIT-- and the images are really cute and original!
Flickr probably works well on certain topics but I have a difficult time finding what I need there. Often, I end up spending a good chunk of time going through pictures and not finding anything.
Amazon works a lot better for me, but the picture quality is not the best.
Stockphoto type places are probably better, and that is why people pay for such services. Ultimately, I decided to go with creating my own images.
I think there is value in HP offering a free professional image service to its members -
1. It will create high quality content that is unique to the site.
2. It gives a nice value-add to many members that like me, may not find what they need on Flickr.
3. It helps to reduce low-quality image issues.
4. Unique, high-quality images may also help bring in traffic from image searches.
What about a library of photos made by hubbers themselves? I have lots of wildlife photos I take on a daily basis and will perhaps never use for my own hubs.
A "photo wanted" request could be made by a hubber and supplied by another. I'm sure there are plenty of shutterbugs on HP who would be glad to furnish a custom photo for a small fee or even perhaps as a photo credit opportunity. Just a thought!
Shibashake and Randy~ Both very good ideas and both would benefit HP on many levels. LOVE the photo library idea, as well as a plan to reduce low-quality images, or even illegally acquired images.
I usually design the images to go with each hub, so the original photos I snap end up being directly associated to each hub topic. I love to design as well as write, but the design work using image editing software truly makes each picture an one-of-a-kind endeavor.
I fully support the image Library as well as the HP free professional images for member's idea; and will help where the community needs such assistance. IMHO, you guys are really on to something good here!
I like this as well. I know I've got hundreds of photos already on HP and while most would not be of any value to other hubbers some of them might. I would ask for nothing more than perhaps a link to my profile.
HP could easily (I would think) make those photos available to other hubbers - more problematical would be the job of sorting them somehow to find what you were looking for.
Marisa is Wright, but on second thoughts I guess it would be wise for me not to use any images in my future articles.
This would serve two purposes. The first one would be ... the absense of images would give me the impetus to write a more descreptive article.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so naturally it will follow that a thousand words will be substituted for every missing image.
Quite apart from that, the reader will need to use his own image-i-nation when the text leads him to a blank area that would have otherwise been occupied by an image!
So it works two ways. The author gets to excercise his writing abilities and the reader gets to use his imagination!
I would have a two-tier hubpages.... new writers would have to prove themselves by writing quality original hubs and then could be invited the top tier which could be presented to Google as the best writing, not to be brought-down by poor writing in the lower tier.
Obviously spammers etc would never make it to the top tier and therefore, hopefully, established and quality writers would not be affected by poor content elsewhere...
Have no idea if this is possible, from a technology point of view, but if I could wave a magic wand it is what I would wish for! I don't like the thought of my writing being penalised by poor writing elsewhere on the site ...
Yes, this is great! With EzineArticles you have to prove your self. Hubpages could go by a multi-tier system just as well.
I would support this notion.
Heck, I would volunteer an hour or two a week to review these low tier people to see if they should make it to the top tier.
I would help too. Maybe read X hubs per week for them.
Heck, I'd even offer writing help/instruction. They could contract with me to send people my way who were trying but struggling with quality issues. If the workload was too insane and it was worth it either from a revenue side or a value-added side, they could pay me or work out something in trade for pitching one of my novel or something down the road.
There's ways out of this if they stay flexible and open. I think they'll bounce back one way or another, but the best way to survive in business is to put out a genuinely high quality product with great service. Exceed the expectation of your customers. They just have to figure out who their customers are. Not as easy at it might sound, I think, and I don't envy them.
a personalized mentorship program would be a great way to help folks!
Yes, it would. HP needs to up its game in the face of this. They could increase revenue share for writers who volunteer for this kind of thing. Everyone makes more. HP gets better content, good writers (who already get traffic) make more from that traffic, and less-skilled writers get better and therefore begin to make money too (which also helps HP).
The way to win this fight, in my opinion, is not for HP to play defense. If they offer a remarkable service, they will do well. If they try to find out how to tweak this and that to play the never-ending SEO game, they're going to always run the risk of the bottom dropping out. Real quality stands on its own. The appearance of quality will only support itself so long.
But what do I know. I'm just some schlep who writes beer jokes and sarcasm, right? lol
Shaedsbreath, I like your thinking; the idea that truly high quality and/or service will prevail has a large appeal to me.
I'm not so sure that it is correct, however. At least not in the sense that you give.
HP has, basically, one customer - Google. (yes, Amazon and the ad program provides a little more, but Google is by far the #1 customer simply as a result of its search engine). Google "resells" HP's product which earns income for HP.
As a reseller, google is interested more in it's own income than in high quality, and that income does not necessarily come from what we call quality. Google has it's own idea of what quality is, and that notion does not necessarily equate to ours. In addition, the details of that notion are not given out and change periodically with different marketing concepts not truly related to quality.
As an analogy, consider WalMart. They don't earn money based on quality OR service; rather their business model is based on low prices and high volume. Quality definitely takes a back seat. Google may (may!) be the same but they won't tell us.
If my ramblings have merit, then HPs job is to offer whatever Google wants. Or find another customer that can resell our product better than Google can.
I must admit, I don't much care for the idea of tiered membership or any type of setup where you have to participate in some way in order to earn privileges. For the amount of money that most of us earn here (particularly post-Panda) it just isn't worth it.
One of the things I liked about HP when I first joined was the fact that you could just publish your stuff and spend as much or as little time as you liked on commenting/forums/helping etc. If I were expected to "take part" in order to earn brownie points (other than the virtual brownie points that we're currently given in the form of accolades), I'd be quite p*ssed off actually.
Really, all that HP needed to do right from the outset was filter out the spam before it even got published so that very short hubs, spun hubs, foreign language hubs and spammy hubs never made it to the light of day. That's all it would have taken - a simple moderation queue, so that anyone publishing a new hub would have had a waiting time of maybe one or two days and - if their hub didn't get published - a short email telling them why.
Of course, the horse has bolted now.
This thread is a waste of hubbers time, at the time of panda I know Misha and Mark Knowles and a few others offered their services on the direction that HP's should take. They didn't want to listen then and they are not going to listen now.
The reason it has become so difficult to communicate with Hp's is that they think they know how to get out of this mess. If I am correct Hp's ranking has dropped closed to 200 points on Alexa and is still dropping. This should tell you that everything that has been done by Hp's so far hasn't worked.
I hope its not a waste of time...At some point, HP will need to partner with their stakeholders instead of what is currently happening....I had hoped that this thread would provide some ideas to do just that.
There have been some great ideas so far!
Yes I have to agree with you, there are some very valid ideas, but who is listening to them and will they act on any.
I don't know...the HP team have been noticeably quiet recently...the calm before the storm?
No, I think they're just working so frantically to fix things, they're not looking above the parapet.
Jason has admitted that his job is to act as a shield between us and the rest of the team - none of our comments or questions on the forums get past him to the moderators. It appears the HP team are convinced their approach is right, and they're not interested in what Hubbers think.
That view is confirmed by the fact that I, and a few other "established" Hubbers, have tried emailing Paul Edmonson, Paul Deeds etc direct to express our concerns, and the replies we've got make it clear they're not listening.
I think that one thing that would really help is if the lines of communication could be opened again - so many issues seemed to have become mired in controversy and hubbers are now unsure of the rules and are scared of their hubs being unpublished, with the resultant extra work and loss of revenue
It seems to me that the HP staff have adopted a siege mentality and are nervously peering over the drawbridge rather than interacting helpfully and clearly with hubbers, and unfortunately some current and now ex-hubbers due to their frustrations have developed a kind of howling mob mentality and are rampaging over the forums and the rest of the net howling, name calling and sometimes being quite abusive.
Transparent, honest communication from both sides!
Totally agree with you on this. I can't for the life of me think why Hp's haven't adopted Ezine's method of making all new starters write at least 10 hubs before they are published and award membership to the site.
And I have been trawling the depths of the hubbers who have a score of about 15 - nearly every hub has to be flagged, so why don't they just bite the bullet and do a mass delete?
There is so much dross that it can only be bringing the site down and most of those hubbers are one or two c**p hub wonders, so if I were HP I wouldn't be too worried about upsetting a few of them. I doubt most of them would even notice that the hubs were gone.
Automate what they can and spend more time communicating with, building relationships with and promoting their better and more prolific writers
I'm 100% behind you on this and wish they would but it's all down to revenue. With the mass exodus of good quality writers Hp's has left the draw bridge down to allow spammy/low quality writers to enter to fill the void.
That's interesting. They could just scrape off every hubber that's under, say, 87 or maybe even 90. Maybe give the 85s and up some help or probation or something.
And any published hub thats under some standard, maybe like 72 or something goes bye-bye.
:Holds head in hands:
I've got plenty of hubs with a 60-something score and there's nothing wrong with them AFAIK, other than the fact that they don't get a huge number of visits.
Sorry but if even a few of the ideas on this thread were implemented, this place would lose a LOT more members.
I was talking of a hubber score of 15 Empress - trust me there are hundreds of them! Have a delete of any hubber account with a score under 20 (unless they are new)and trust me there would be loads of dross gone - wasn't talking about individual hub scores!
I think you have the right idea, but the figures your using are way to harsh. Remember some hubs are seasonal and drop well into the 60's, I have some winter sports ones like that.
I have been trying to help by Hub Hopping - its something I think we should all do - just a few a day. I get quite depressed with the number I have to flag as they are total gibberish. I presume that these are the spun ones?
Spun or non English, or just copied previously spun garbage. And so on.
I'm temporarily hopped out, good for you continuing Angie, but I am so hacked off with the constant incoming stream.
I don't want to complain about HP but I feel some more regular updating about their plans might be useful, and polite.
Do they really want to get rid of the garbage for instance? Or just pay lip service to the idea? After all - a hit is a hit.
I'm not convinced that quality original writing is anything more than a figleaf.
edit: Sorry the OP was what would you do? I don't know is my inadequate answer - I write, I don't know anything about SEO stuff and recovering from Panda slaps.. Split the site into multiple micro niche sites - cars, fashion, poetry, whatever. Stop any new writing without editorial supervision. No idea.
Mark, I think you are on to something. There is significant disparity between their stated desire to rid the site of garbage and how their actions are interpreted by hubbers.
For example: http://hubpages.com/profile/jojo1000 <--this account was flagged weeks ago for deceptively titled hubs, and yet it still remains published. It is valid to ask if they REALLY want these high-view articles lost to the site?
Another example has one hubber with 1,800 hubs left published that are almost exclusively composite copied. They took down over 400 after each and every one of them were flagged, but it does beg the question whether HP REALLY wants them eliminated. The burden appears to be on hubbers to flag each hub, and not the author to resolve the account. That further alienates existing authors.
It definitely is frustrating living through the disparity in the enforcement of the policies.
But that is a good thing to address...How to communicate that there are NOT disparities - or if different hubbers are intentionally treated differently, then acknowledge it and explain why.
Our moderation team is extremely fair in the application of their protocol, and, interestingly, they get criticized from both people who complain we are being too harsh and also by people saying we are not being harsh enough. Look around in some other threads.
The protocol the moderation team follows - one it has always followed - is to give violators plenty of chances to bring their Hubs in order. For some, those "plenty of chances" is not nearly enough, and for others, it's way too many.
The protocol we've adopted was meant to strike a balance between the two. We can't decide to be harsh on certain authors because they're not friends with people in the forums. By the same token, we can't continue to overlook countless violations just because someone has a lot of fans here.
I understand all the frustrations, and I'm not saying mistakes are not made, but the process we use is fair, even if it doesn't make everyone satisfied (that would be impossible).
Interesting you say that Jason, considering the problems I am presently having with moderated hubs.
I mean, hubs that have been fixed, yet ads are disabled, which makes no sense. Emails concerning the problem have gone unaddressed.
And, as my other thread says, I have ads disabled on 2 other hubs and no reason given.
What has the moderation team told you in the past about Hubs like that one? I understand you've had many email exchanges with the moderation team on this topic overall.
Jason, I am talking about 2 hubs that were fixed according to moderator request. Yet, they haven't enabled the ads.
As for the others, I don't know what the problem is, so I cannot fix if there is a problem. I recently had a couple of hubs unpublished for "unrelated" links, so I deleted ALL RSS Feeds from ALL of those hubs. They restored those hubs.
So, I don't know.
Yes, that's what I mean. In the past, you've had many conversations with the moderation team on why "sexy celebrity" Hubs have had their ads turned off. What did they tell you in those emails?
It was related to photos, but not knowing what photos need to be changed or deleted, isn't helping. See my point about not informing me of the problem?
Some of these hubs have 10-20 pictures on them? Subjective nature of the rules is already beyond ridiculous...am I to guess?
Cags, I suggest you take all your sexy celebrity hubs and place them on you own sexy celebrity blog. I'm not trying to be rude but honestly there are too many prudes on this site flagging nipples and sheer clothing. You're not going to earn Adsense here on them any more but you may earn from Amazon.
My "sexiest bikini" hub has almost 400,000 page views since I published it in October 09 and has earned me close to $500 in Adsense for my share but all of a sudden it's not good enough for Adsense any longer (or maybe their other ad partners) It's still getting tons of traffic but not earning me a penny here anymore because the ads were disabled.
I would move it somewhere else but I don't have a blog in that niche just yet. But once its gone there goes another 200 or so visitors a day to HP and frankly I don't care anymore. And they wonder why they are losing traffic and authority. This site will continue to drop when people like me move our content, along with it's traffic and hundreds or thousands of backlinks, to another site. Every time a piece of content is removed from this site, its like letting out another breath of air from the balloon. The HP balloon that was once floating its way to the top now has a pin hole in it and unless they stop the leak this balloon is going to whither away.
Jason, I think that the Mark has a valid point. The takeaway being that to reinvigorate HP, we need to find a way to communicate a bit better...both sides. Addressing this rift will help everyone move forward.
...and 2 hours later, the composite copier has disappeared from HP.
I just went Hopping for 15 minutes and found over 10 with duplicate content and 2 that seemed to be either spun or terribly translated.
To be honest I think HP have allowed the lunatics to take over the asylum. HP allowed too many sudo editors to spoil good debate and discussion in the forums. When writers feel stiffled by out side influences that have nothing to do with good editing but more to do with narrow mindedness and petty disputes then the rot has set. Unless HP can free itself of the chains and shackles of un-healthy interference with debate and discussion then one must believe that the clouds of darkness will gather
If HP were my ship to sail, I'd have docked her a couple of months ago. In other words, when Panda and the many new standards hit, I think HP should have closed entry for a while.
This would have reinforced a bond with existing writers (and hopefully swayed many not to leave), and provided an opportunity to weed out the spam, etc., without the added burden of a constant influx of copied/spun content. The message to existing hubbers would have been that we're all in this together. After its hull had been thoroughly cleaned, HP could have decided whether to return to the sea (open up admission again, perhaps monitoring new writers) or stay anchored until Google possibly recognized that HP was serious about reinventing its image.
I think this is a good idea. Stop allowing new members, let current members continue to submit, and weed out the current members that are posting trash.
Then open the doors to new members and set up the multi-tiered idea Marie McKeown had above.
Of course all current members who are not weeded out would automatically be given the better tier.
I figure the fact that HP didn't close the doors for a while is indication that they don't want to, which is naturally their right. I'm making my call based on virtually no inside information, of course, and perhaps there's good reason not to seal it up for a short period.
If HP wanted to monitor new writers, then Marie's two-tiered idea would work well. You're a member or you're an applicant. It seems like Google might like this as a method of quality control, but then again, I have my doubts as to whether Google cares at all about what HP does.
I do not believe for one minute that Google gives a rats behind what HP does.
As long as HP behaves and does not severely violate Googles rules they are quite happy to sit back and allow their algorithm to perform its job. They will take no steps to manually speed up the process as there is no profit in it for them.
On the other hand, if HP does badly violate their policies, Google is quite capable of simply shutting down any search engine traffic to HP and they have shown that they are willing to do just that. Penny's, wasn't it, or some big department store?
The hope that Google will look at the steps HP is taking and manually give it a +1 or something is futile.
I'm hearing you, but the use of "futile" suggests a knowledge of the future. Time does strange things, and the online world isn't immune to unforeseen changes, that's for sure. I have my doubts that Google will ever care about what HP does, but if enough searchers grow tired of corporate results, or if HP cleans house to the point where it is in fact only full of quality articles, Google might want a piece. The one thing we can all agree on is that Google cares about money, and users ultimately decide Google's income.
A TV add or two. I mean i see a dang e harmony or go daddy commercial every commercial break . Here's a slogan ill give you for free. "Get Excited About Writing On Hubpages"
Or here's one "Hubpages... Come join the fight!"
Doesn't have the same ring to it as the first one but its sure to stir things up.
Try fake cancer cures instead, staff seems to favor them!
I think shibashake is really on to something with the posted improve HP ideas, and here's why;
Some writers (myself included) have manged to create strong original content and images yet struggle a bit with the technical aspects of Online writing.
If these strong writers Had a mentor (of sorts) to teach the technical skills or offer support in getting more readers, it would actually benefit HP as well as the author/mentor relationship. Symbiotic in a way.
I know that if I had more know-how on how to get read more frequently, not only would my income grow, but hopefully so would the harvest for the entire community, because the site would become more valuable to those who search for information.
I am finding out that one thing is very true when it comes to online writing; you not only have to write good original content, but you need to have the skills to actually get that content read. Which is my Achilles-tendon (as it is with several very good writers here on HP who struggle to get a larger readership).
Some good ideas here, all seemingly centered around quality writing. Can we put them together, perhaps as follows:
Continue moderating but with a few changes. Severe violations (spun or copied content for instance) unpublish as is done currently. Less severe violations (pixelated photos, bad links, affiliate links, substandard) put on probation for 2 weeks; if not successfully resubmitted for moderation by then, unpublish. (Two weeks may not be long enough for hubbers that visit infrequently, but the longer the probation period the more junk we have here).
Be a little more willing to suspend or unpublish entire accounts for large numbers of violations. In order to not overload the moderators limit the number of old hubs to be resubmitted for moderation to 5 per week.
All new hubs to be moderated before publication with a start date set by HP but not advertised. When 5 hubs have been successfully moderated that hubber enters tier 2 where moderation is not necessary for publication. And let's not fool ourselves into thinking that hubber age or volume should eliminate this requirement - ALL hubbers to be subject to the rule.
Tier 1 hubbers that edit a hub must have that hub moderated, but that moderation won't count towards entering tier 2. An edited hub simply enters the queue for moderation without unpublishing it first.
If 3 of the first 5 hubs submitted contain severe violations the account to be terminated. If you can't learn the first 2 efforts not to post spun content or other absolute garbage you won't ever learn. HP might consider an appeal process but if so it is up to them and need not be an official part of the TOS
If any tier 2 hubber ever has 5 hubs moderated as unacceptable they drop back to tier 1 and start over. Tier 2 hubs to continue to be subject to moderation from either random action or flagging.
Prior to (but not to replace) moderation any hubber may request review of any hub for any particular suspected violation. If you're not sure how the 50 - 1 Amazon ratio works, ask for review of that. If you're concerned you may have bad affiliate links, ask for a review of the links. Reviews are not moderation and will not carry the penalties of termination or tier reduction, but will take time to accomplish. No hubber to ask for more than 3 reviews per week, again to prevent the hubber with 1000 unpublished hubs from filling up the queue for weeks at a time just for their work.
Reviews are to be provided by HP either through staff or hubbers. Reviewers are expected to examine ONE facet of the hub; while they may notice and comment on others they are expected to help correct only one deficiency. Reviews of grammar may not be practical - HP is not a school to teach English. Reviews for spelling should be unnecessary with the abundance of spell checkers available. Reviews are intended primarily to help teach the rules and expectations of HP, not to teach newbies how to write.
After review you are expected to correct any problems found and submit for moderation, a second review for another problem or publishing, depending on your tier. As reviews will take time it is the hubbers advantage to learn to publish without it but it is available for those that need it. I envision at least some discussion between the reviewer and the hubber and not just a list of problems found.
Thanks. The funny thing is that I (among others) proposed this basic tier system months ago. And was thoroughly stomped on as it would deter new members and was censorship.
Now that the size of the quality problem is being understood by more hubbers, as they find mountains of garbage inhabiting the HP files, they seem a little more willing to censor and to discourage new spammers.
Ezine has a somewhat similar concept, and that doesn't deter new members.
Of course, Ezine recently got hit by Panda, too, and they've cracked down even more than Hubpages.
Either way, I second this plan, Wilderness.
shoot---I got a nice coffee mug from E-Zine when I moved to another tier...what I wouldn't give for a HP coffee mug!
I agree Wilderness ... if anyone is in doubt that some form of regulation or mild censorship is needed they only need to hub hop for half an hour.
Sadly all some people see when they first find HP is dollar signs - they think they are going to earn big bucks just for writing something, i fact anything So they write a few substandard hubs, (and by the look of their hubs English is not their first language ... by the look of some of them it is not even their fifteenth!) then when the expected money doesn't roll in they lose interest and leave ... leaving their junk behind them.
HP must weed, weed, weed ... or Google will kill it.
In the past that might have been a viable business model for HP, but Panda has changed the concept. The idea of quantity over quality no longer seems to work; rather it hurts badly and we are all (including HP) paying the price for past successes.
Weed indeed. Unfortunately the field is so covered in weeds that it will take a long time to manually pick them out while ensuring that new ones don't grow. Too long, I think, and thus some other changes need to be made.
Over a million hubs to read and moderate. If the entire staff of HP does nothing else that's 40,000 each to read, or about a year. Unfortunately however, some of the staff are programmers, some are management and so on. There is only a small handful that are moderators, and the weeds keep coming all the time. Practically speaking they will never be able to clean out the trash that is already here while keeping an eye on the new stuff coming in, which brings us to this thread, trying to help HP.
A TV add or two. I mean i see a dang e harmony or go daddy commercial every commercial break . Here's a slogan ill give you for free. "Get Excited About Writing On HubPages"
uhhh Hello. .com TV add. When i tell people i write on HubPages they reply . Never heard of it. Ancestry.com ,though they've heard of that many times over. How? With TV !
And ill stop with that
I would take a 2-pronged approach:
1. Take practical steps to tidy up the site and appease the big G (Google).
2. Undertake various technical measures to improve the site's search engine visibility in reaction to the Google algo changes.
I believe that HubPages are doing both of the above. It remains to be seen to what extent their efforts are effective.
Another idea is to implement a minimum word filter for all categories except for poetry.
There are many hubs with hardly any words, just pictures:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hot-Desi-Nature … rls-Photos
Implementing a minimum requirement for words might help to keep the most egregious of these off the site.
On the flip side, if you implement a minimum word count (even 100 words) might encourage folks to write a 101 word hub.
My understand is that there is minimum word count, although I'm not sure just what it is. Somewhere around 300 words?
I also believe that poetry and one of the categories for photos are exempt. Poetry is obvious and the photo category is intended for simple collections of photos without much other content. Both can be and are abused as most everything is.
A word counting filter has also been suggested as a pre-publishing tool. Software could check for word count, copied material, spelling, etc. before allowing content to publish. It would take only seconds and a hubber could get an immediate negative canned response to the effect that a hub was too short or whatever without it ever actually being published. I think - I'm not a programmer.
I wouldn't go that far. If a hub goes below a certain number of words then it could be flagged and have to be authorized before published. There will be cases out there when a valid hub will be 250 words. Simply flag it for review and move on. Anyone can fluff a crap article to meet words, so simply put flags on anything but poetry or photo's that is under 400 words.
One reason the site is relying on peer monitoring is so they don't have to hire people on and create more of a financial footprint. You could also add more accolades (in a positive manner) that people who flag fluff can move up to being an expert. The initial load on the editors would be greater, but once established it may be better in the long run.
Just a block on any words under this is not a good idea in my opinion. Simply flag it and move on. And create rewards for users who are actually monitoring the quality of HP and doing so successfully. Be it an accolade system or whatever. Violators who spam flag everything will be persecuted.
ty wilderness for acknowledgment. i understand what your saying
Ive just come back from Thailand so I need to get back writing hubs, plenty of new material
Perhaps we need a right wing Hub splinter group where all the Bushites and Shheeites can go and a centre left Hub where all the imaginative and creative people can go to write interesting and imaginative hubs
I see a lot of hubs that draw impressions but the writing is horrid. As long as everyone is trying to give their two cents, why hasn't anyone defined what everyone is talking about?
Is a "good" hub something that is well written or that has good marketing? Because I have seen some bad hubs that have great marketing. That is only one example, if you look around you can figure out more.
All the talk that goes on about how to change HP's and make it better and to my knowledge no one has given a standard definition of what they mean. I use the good hub because I see users that have a high rating, have been here quite a long time, and make money from them complaining all over the forums. Sadly, the hubs are marketed very well but the technical writing is not all that good.
A lot of people are spinning their wheels but going no where.
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