I would like to convey my congratulations to Paul E and the HP Team for their efforts in overcoming the Panda Squat. I know it is early days, but the recovery has been sensational and has occurred much sooner than expected. Well Done! Great Work and Cheers!
I am still very edgy about the whole thing, though traffic has returned to pre panda and a bit beyond which reflects the new hubs that I had written.
I can only assume that the work to clear the site and the split into sub domains did the trick. If Google does not like someone it can sandbox the sub domain rather than the whole site.
Yesterday I noticed a prolific amount of spammers which I flagged. If things went the way that we have seen , it could be pretty pointless of them as after a few weeks they would be sand boxed on quality issues, even if they slip under the HP radar.
I think the most galling thing about the whole process is that no one, not even Paul E, was told, EXACTLY what to do. I have at times been critical as have others, and I am still critical of the way that changes are delivered and the lack of reassuring timely responses when drastic traffic changes come. Some of the newly sand boxed sub domains merit personal advice rather than the rather public advice that has been given. The whole six month episode has left me concerned about the quality of communicattion from HP which is somewhat ironic.
However if this is for real- then yes, congratulations are due and it is to be hoped that HP will continue to provide a platform for writers to write on anything that they fancy at nil cost!
Show me the money - the traffic is back but the earnings aren't - I can't pay the rent with traffic
My earnings are back to pre-panda and my traffic doubled but its dropped a little this weekend, probably just weekend trend
Are your HP earnings not up then Lissie? Mine took a jump up to over $10 yesterday, when previously they had been at about $2 - $3 a day. Traffic rose, earnings jumped, at least in my case. I am just waiting to see if it actually lasts though.... (Adsense also up compared to normal right now).
Adsense is up - but not enough - my traffic is back to pre-Panda levels - but my Adsense is barely $20/week - while pre-Panda it was $30/40 - to be fair to HP - it may just be the time of the year - its hard to be definitive but compared to this time year - my Adsense is down 20 - 80% the equivalent last year's week - I need probably another 3 months to see if this is a consistent pattern.
Strange, and I mean that sincerely Lissie. I have seen both traffic and earnings treble essentially, but of course only over a couple of days, so far too early to tell if it is just a coincidence. I am still 'on the fence' in terms of if this is going to be an ongoing improvement for HP, or just a brief respite from what we have endured in recent months!!!
Yeah basically its too soon to know - and there are a lot variables - like everyone on the east coast are probably not online shopping - unless its for hurricane surivival kits - I'm serious when I say I need about 3 months data - and that's with basically static hubs - I have only added a couple in the last year
Are you using HPads? If so that's the single biggest reason adsense isn't performing; HPads "robs" the impressions from Adsense.
If you're comparing pre-panda adsense (without HPads) to current adsense (with HPads) then I'm surprised that the difference isn't much greater than it apparently is.
This is a good point, I never thought to ask Lissie if she was on HP Ads alone, Adsense, or if she had changed to HP Ads at some point but expected Adsense income not to change, plummet etc. I am sure Lissie will shortly come back with a response however, and then a little more light might be shed on the subject.
I tried HPAds for a couple of months - but they weren't getting anything close to the eCPM that I get with Adsense so I dropped them mid July
So much for that, then. I would be curious as to any change in your click through rate - are you getting the clicks, just no earnings to go with them? The reason I ask is that my CTR is down, due mostly to HPads I think, but clicks just aren't paying anything.
Remember that Hubpages have changed the template, the number of ads (they've gone down) and the ad layout.
All of those things are going to impact Adsense earnings even if traffic is back to pre-panda levels.
I'm still in the wait-and-see phase too, but I think we'll need a lot more traffic just to get to the same earnings.
P.S. I use Adsense only as on my hub topics Hpads pay out way less.
@Case1worker - HP is not free by any means. People pay 40% of their earnings for the opportunity to write here.
@Lissie - Agreed. Something is definitely wrong here. Traffic is up considerably, but earnings have never been this miserable.
Yep, I'm seeing the same. Traffic is very high, but:
Adsense = no change.
ebay = no change.
Amazon = no change.
HubAds = CPM dropped significantly as traffic increased. Earnings = no change.
I still think the HP team deserve some congrats for "bringing back the love" (if it turns out not to be a temporary fluke), but in terms of earnings, from the extra two and a half thousand views a day I'm seeing (roughly), nothing. And with the HubAds CPM drop I've seen today. I might actually even be earning less.
I actually received one of the lowest daily payouts ever for one of the days with the highest impressions ever reported for HP Ads on my account. It was about half or less of what I have received much of the time previously.
Given the lack of transparency on the statistics provided for this programme, there is no way of seeing whether it is not HubPages which is simply assigning CPM at random to screw the most possible out of us.
I have expressed my reservations about HP Ads on several occasions, but note that the owners of HP have never deigned to respond, presumably while laughing all the way to the bank.
That's quite an accusation, and one that is easily dispelled when you realize that we've always said that whichever setup works for you better (either AdSense alone, or HubPages Ads and AdSense together) is the one you should use. There are plenty of people who prefer one option over another, and they've expressed their experiences here in the Forums. There are even some who earn more using HubPages Ads, but due to the fact that they enjoy occasional spikes in their earnings that AdSense is more likely to deliver, opt for AdSense-only. That's their choice.
As others have said, the HubPages Ad Program, which partners with a relatively large number of ad partners, tends to pay more on impressions than on clicks (but not exclusively), and favors traffic from US visitors. If your traffic is mainly from outside the US or you get a surge of traffic from outside the US, you're not going to see a high CPM. This is simply the state of the ad market, which is much more developed in the US than it is elsewhere (especially for impressions-based, branding-focused advertising). But CPMs also fluctuate due to our ad partners' activities; most "cap out" (will only want to pay for the first impression or two for a visitor), have campaigns that begin or end, etc.
You also have a choice of where to publish your articles in the first place. If anyone believes that we're secretly screwing over individual writers by "rigging" things on the backend, or laughing off all writers' concerns, then I have no idea what would compel them to continue to publish on our site. (We do let authors retain full rights to their content, which they're free to unpublish/delete as they please)
Then why do you not provide the statistics used as the basis of the ECPM? To have it drop by more than 50% overnight is disconcerting to say the least.
In my case, one hub accounts for at least half of my daily views, and has done so since the hub was written last year, long before Panda. It is difficult to believe that all of a sudden, overnight, it is getting a completely different and less valuable user population.
Why do you not indicate which advertisers are being featured? At least then we could see if this bore any relation to the subject matter of our hubs and could modify our topics accordingly. Why do you not indicate how much of the sum earned relates to each hub? All this could easily be done automatically.
Furthermore, I am not the only person who has had this experience in the last days. There have been a number of postings to this effect. It is fairly meaningless to have visitors double if the actual earnings do not change or, as in my case yesterday, drop to half the previous amount received before for far fewer visitors.
We do. eCPM is your earnings x 1000, divided by the number of impressions.
We do not disclose our partners (we don't either with our YieldBuild product for publishers) since most do not want to disclose that they're partners with us. I believe Advertising.com is one that has allowed us to make our partnership explicit.
Do you have Google Analytics installed for your account? That might help you figure out where you're getting a sudden spike of traffic from. You can get some information by clicking the Stats button on that Hub itself, but no geographic data (but you can see, for instance, if google.co.th is sending you the spike, or google.com).
About your traffic: we have virtually no control over which sites or search engines send you traffic.
I'm sorry your burst in traffic hasn't translated to a similar burst in HubPages Ad revenue. But there have been many more people saying that they've seen a large increase in their HubPages Ad Program revenue (and that's been the case overall across all accounts, too). It's possible there is a glitch (unlikely, since it's not affecting everyone, but not impossible); you can email payments@ and on Monday Marina can investigate.
I don't know how many have seen a spike in HP earnings, but I have seen a few people voice their concerns over the the fact that traffic is high but there hasn't been much change in HP earnings.
I number with that few: My visits - mainly from Google and Facebook - have easily tripled, however, my HP ads income hasn't reflected that. It's still early, so I'll humbly wait and see if that changes or not, but it does have me concerned as well.
Either way, HP is on the right track again, and I hope to see this type of traffic for many, many years.
I've definitely experienced some of the lowest CPM's since joining the HubAds program, over the last day or two. Which is annoying considering the considerable traffic increases. It would have been nice to see it convert into a few extra $.
Although, I in no way meant to imply any kind of underhanded activity on the part of the HP team. I have a little more faith in them than that.
As a practical step to try and cash in on all of this extra traffic, I've temporarily turned off HPads, and am giving adsense alone another turn at the wheel.
Let's see what happens.
Yes, but if you dont make any money in the first place then there is not much for them to make! What I meant was that you dont have to pay an upfront fee! Hope that makes more sense!
My figures do not agree with this. Adsense is very low (virtually nonexistent) but HP ads are up about equally with traffic.
That is to say that as traffic has tripled so has HPad earnings. Thursday showed an unusually high CPM and that has dropped back to normal on Friday, but still leaves earnings much higher than normal.
What I don't understand is the very low CTR I'm seeing from adsense. Yes, I have HPads, but even so it has dropped from prior months. In addition, I'm once more getting clicks that are paying less than 5 cents and that hurts.
Those 1-cent AdSense clicks started again for me around the 15th. At which point I immediately went back to hpads.
Well, my understanding is that there will always be at least one adsense ad on every hub. If HPads are paying more that may be all there is - one ad - but that's fine with me if they're going to pay a penny or so per click.
I had considered turning off HPads next month, but won't do it if the CPC doesn't come up.
If your earnings are bad guys it's prob because your using adsense by itself and not the HP ad program maybe.
I've been lucky. Traffic is up by 300% and earnings have more than doubled.
I target a local education niche and all my hubs related to this have good rankings and traffic.
Thanks Paul! At one time I thought it's good bye to HP but now it's hello again!
My earning have leapt up but not as far as I would have expected. But then my other sites are earning badly this week. So, I reckon it is just a poor week for adsense and Amazon.
Yesterday, HP Ads earnings were little high due to increase in traffic but today, it is 35% less CPM. Probably, HP does not want publishers to enjoy the ride. I do not understand how they actually calculate CPM.
Yep, views up but CPM significantly down :-(
CPM is simply the $$ earned divided by the number of impressions times 1000. If you had gotten exactly 1000 impressions you would have earned the CPM.
If publishers do not enjoy the ride, neither does HP. HP does not produce the money to pay us, advertisers do. It passes through HPs hands, yes, but they simply deduct their share and forward the rest it to us.
It is not clear or written anywhere how much share HP deduct from advertisers.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the CPM varies according to the topic (some are more advertiser friendly than others) in a similar way to Adsense. So if you get a surge in traffic to low value hubs, you won't see big rises in earnings. Celebrity hubs can pull in massive amounts of traffic, but don't generate much advertizing revenue, certainly in Adsense. I am assuming that Hub ads are similar (though not the same).
That is true. Due to the level of competition among advertisers, and the value of a potential customer, some topic areas' visitors are considerably more valuable than others. That's especially true for AdSense, but it's also true broadly for the HubPages Ad Program, too. On a related note, we do have a special direct campaign with Drano in our home category; home Hubs will get a nice boost to their HubPages Ad Program revenue during the campaign runs.
Paul shares a slide at HubCamps with relative eCPMs: finance and technology tend to be at the top, and I think books might be at the bottom.
It is only true to a point, and how you look at it can change things.
Regardless of a hubs "value" in collecting high $ ads, if traffic doubles then earnings should generally double. Whether clicks are worth a penny or a dollar, earnings should about double as traffic does.
My problem is that hubs that used to get clicks worth 50 cents or a dollar now get clicks paying a few cents. This will affect CPM negatively when compared to past history, and (at least in my case) is part of the reason adsense simply isn't performing. Yes, the CTR is down because of HPads, but I would have expected the pay per click to increase because of the relationship between HPads and adsense (a bidding war if I understand the process right). Instead the CPC has fallen by a factor of 10 or more.
Adsense simply won't put ads worth much on hubs that used to get good high paying (to me at least) ads. Maybe it's just summertime, maybe my hubs don't show up as a good bet to adsense any more.
I would say that if traffic doubles for a specific hub, then you would expect earnings to double for that individual hub, certainly if you took a mean average of earnings over a reasonable length of time. I sometimes wonder though if some hubbers aren't great on analysing where their traffic increases are occuring - I suspect that some people just look at the overall figures and assume that increases are spread across their hubs uniformly.
I do understand that CPM varies according to the topic, but what if the traffic doubles up proportionally on the similar hubs and the CPM simply lowers down by more than 35%. Maybe there are several other factors which affects CPM that I am not aware of.
Weekends are always low, wait until next week before judging. I am waiting to see if this lasts and how earnings pan out over the coming days, but everyone tends to jump on the same day's information and figures and not look at the long term picture (to a point I have been guilty of this myself). Just watch the figures for a week or two before drawing too many conclusions!!
Well I am smiling! my readers have increased by at least four times! and my money, which isn't a lot I must add, has actually gone up too! In other words if I earned a dollar a day, it will now be 3 or 4, I don't but you get the idea! so good on ya Hubpages!
What technique do you use to get $1 or more per day?
Will, I fail to see why you need to label us as losers.
Obviously, some subdomains have been sandboxed for goodness knows what reasons. Not for being spun or translated junk, nor for being too short or unoriginal.
In fact, many of the sandboxed subdomains have high quality authors.
Please remember we are all in this together, and divisive comments like yours are not conducive to peace and harmony among hubbers.
Yes, we are hoping it's a simple sandbox situation, and that traffic will get restored (not to the spinners or spammers, but quality Hubbers like you).
I did see one account recently that got "plunged" and then traffic restored 30 days later. I don't know if modifications were made to the content or not, and since I'm not Google, I don't know why the traffic dropped in the first place.
I don't know what you are reading into what I said, Izzy but my remark was a little cryptic so I will expand.
The losers have lost a lot of traffic. The winners have gained a massive amount.
The winners then turn up and complain that somehow they are being let down by the site. Some suggest there is some kind of scam.
This is pretty pathetic after only a couple of days.
Izzy and Randy G, to name just a couple of hubbers, are quality writers for sure. It is terrible that Google errors are impacting on them in such a terrible way. I hope that Jason is right and the problems are just temporary.
There are a few of us in the plungers group, and I don't think any of us 'deserve' to be there, as such, but I was one of those who saw a huge spike in traffic before the plunge.
While it only lasted about 3 weeks, I would be interested to see how the current 'winners' compare with my experience.
The highest days of the spike only last three days or so, before it fell back to being just above pre-Panda levels.
Interestingly, I only had decent earnings in those first three days, before it fell below what I was earning in February, despite traffic being higher.
I did have Hubads ON, but tried turning them off for a few days. Adsense stayed very low, and I mean like 2 low-paying clicks per 1000 views. So I turned HPads back on.
I see others are also experiencing this weird situation where traffic is simply not converting (Amazon sales did, by the way).
Those of you with high traffic that is not converting should write a few sales hubs if you are not in California or another banned State.
Didn't you mean the "plungers" instead of the "winners"?
I am guessing he meant the 'winners' were complaining that their traffic was well up, but income did not reflect this Randy. Am always open to being wrong though
I reckon the plungers have every right to complain. It is the people who are seeing big increases in traffic but are still unhappy and making wild accusations (on the basis of close to zero data) who I find difficult to understand.
For the record, traffic to my main account doubled a few days ago. I saw an 80 percent increase in income from HP ads, one day and 35 percent, the next. What do I conclude from that? Nothing. How could any sane person conclude anything from such thin stuff?
Paul and everyone at Hub Pages have done a lot of hard work to overcome the issues foisted upon everyone after the panda update. There will be more changes and I have a wee suspicion that Google plus might have a key part to play in future. So far I like what I am seeing, and traffic IS up.
The sub domains were the right way to go. Hubs are being indexed all the time and the ratings will climb. Meanwhile we can do more to raise the quality and standards of our work and make things even better, as we all have a part to play. When we think like a community... and like a team, we get places...
Guys, when there's a shakeup like this and you're ranking for new keywords, earnings get shaken up too like crazy whenever you're dealing with contextual ads because it takes a while for the algo to learn how to best optimize the page for some of the keywords. (And you wouldn't believe the difference in similar-looking keywords sometimes - they may look the same in meaning but the visitor intention behind them can be totally different. Google has to determine what ads people are most likely to click on. That's all a problem of relevance.)
You can look in your stats to see if the new keywords you're ranking for are very relevant to your page. If so, my guess would be you'll eventually earn from that traffic assuming it persists.
The other piece of it is that your new traffic might be coming from locales with different ad inventories. From reports here, it seems that that's happening in some cases. That'll throw things out of whack.
Yet another piece is traffic volume. Even if your traffic improved wildly, it's not always going to mean much. If it's doubling from 100 to 200 daily views, that's pretty different from 500 to 1000, and that's very different from 5,000 to 10,000, and so on. The lower the traffic range you started with, the more unpredictability you should expect to see. (I've found that earnings variations of $1-10 daily are not very consistent, and traffic fluctuations exaggerate that because of the relevance problem mentioned above, but as you get up higher in earnings, you see a lot more consistency.)
@fiction teller - I agree with your comments in general - particularly with low traffic you will get utterly inconsistent earnings - because that's what stats is. However in my case my traffic is now back to a consistent 15k or so views a week and the same kws have popped back up again (as expected - as said above I have written very few new hubs recently.
The stats compared to a year ago are telling ie comparing the last 30 days - mainly Aug with the same 30 days in 2010
I can't give you the actual figures - its against TOS - but here are the percentages
revenue down 52%
# of ads clicked down 70%
eCPM down 62%
adsense unit impression down 77%
adsense page impressions UP 32%
In other words the new layout is rubbish for CLR and it looks like some key Adsense accounts have abandoned hubpages (advertisers can chose to blacklist sites if they want to)
I agree, Lissie, there was a big difference when the ad placement changed.
I have trouble wrapping my head around placement targeting but I wonder if any of our slots are placement targeted, in which case moving ad placements would have affected those AdWords bids for a period of time.
Anyway, if the earnings wonkiness continues and you think it's a problem of where the ads are now, you can probably do some optimization stuff to move capsules around and such. Have you tried that? I can't recall if I did, if so not on very many, but AdSense got back to normal for me so I wasn't highly motivated.
Well my results are just in and very encouraging too.
Up 12 per cent!!
Actually, that should read up to 12 cents. Oh well.
For a gentleman Hubber, that must be counted a badge of honour.
Yep. The less you earn the more 'artistic' and pure your writing is. Something like that.
At least I think that's what you were angling at.
It was more your indifference to making money. I reckon you must have trust fund.
I too would like to thank HubPages for always improving HubPages and the experience for the writers. They had a big hit this year with Panda and I think they have done very well at figuring out how to make the best out of the Panda hit. It's not easy being in business (that applies to all of us) and we have to learn to roll with the punches.
My take on why I am surviving the cut and am beginning to prosper?
I always look back at my hubs, fix them when they need fixing, I listen to HubPages and make changes to my hubs when I need to, I continue to market, back-link, respond to readers to comments, continue to learn about the technical side of writing (seo,keyword research, etc). All of this combined I feel leads to a better experience here at HubPages and increased revenue. I am always focused on improving, I try not get involved with any hubber "drama" (it's not productive, we are not here for that, at least I'm not. I have enough drama at home...)
I want to be a great writer, not just a good writer. I want my readers to enjoy my writing and come back for more. I want them to remember me, and I want to interact with them. Maybe something I've written will be valuable to their life. I want to make a difference!
I think HubPages is a stellar company. This site has enabled me to recognize a dream that I have. Thank you HubPages!!!!
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