My traffic has almost dried off. Till 31st of October it was pretty good. Now its almost 60% of what it was. Are you also seeing a drop in traffic. I could have understood a drop if it was a weekend or holidays but this happening in the middle of the week is a bit concerning.
My account tanked on the 1 Nov - Traffic dropped by around 85% and it is still down today. In mid October I had a similar plunge but it returned to normal after about 3 days. No sign of a return this time
Your Traffic will likely be reestablished as soon as the Scarabs have finished repairing the problem!
Surely you knew that Elephants have done a Ton all along the main roads that lead to you? Well motorists have been told to avoid the area until it has been cleaned up (by the Scarabs - (dunggg-beetles) ) And if they really must venture out there.. they are instructed to drive carefully.
Hey.. it could be worse... Elephants are cruisier than Pandas
mine is fluctuating like a channel changer I strongly believe everything has been effected by the working and entering of the contest
amazingly hard work, multiple hubs trying to keep up til the 22nd, it's not you
I agree, I think that is what has happened. Traffic will be slow if your readers are also very busy doing their own contest-related hubs.
could also be those 18 wheelers out of gas just up ahead I mean I've been sitting here for days can't move and almost out of gas too
Is it just me or others too have seen a drop in traffic in the last two days.
We traded places, I haven't had traffic for a while, now I'm getting it.
I had my best month ever in October, but at the very end of the month my traffic took a plunge. I was expecting a drop, as I've got a lot of Halloween-related hubs, but even the ones that had nothing to do with Halloween tanked. Right now I'm at about 5% of the traffic I had a week ago. The same thing happened once in late September and traffic bounce back strong after a week, so I'm hoping for the same this time.
My traffic, for the most part after the subdomain switch, has been terrible and was terrible before it popped on November 1, 2011, got stronger on the 2nd, and is looking decent today.
Across my personal sites and HubPages (from the middle part of the year to present) my traffic pattern has been like a yo-yo - up for a week or so, becomes nearly nonexistent for a couple of weeks, and then returns for a short while.
I think it is best to look at it monthly or so, not on a day to day basis. I am seeing that it will be like this for a long period of time and there is no site secured with its G standing or any hubs for that matter.
Ranking changes always, geographically too, this is the way since G is always changing its algorithm based on the searches preferences on a search basis.
prettydarkhorse: a minute ago, I had 380 followers. Just looked again. Now I have 379. I can't account for the lost follower. As for traffic shrinkage, mine dwindles and depending on what I submit, it surges for about a week. But then again, Ive only been here for about 9 months.
Hi Kenneth, it might be that the other one follower deleted his account. Usually as one submits fresh hub, it will get some nice ranking within and outside HP, then it stabilizes.
I lost 50% traffic on Oct 22 weekend, from 1600 down to 700. My traffic is now hanging there by a thread.
Rosie....why? This sounds mysterious. Have you found out why this happened. Or is that too personal?
I don't know, Kenneth, I didn't do anything to my hubs. It was sickening watching my traffic dropped by the hour on Sat Oct 22nd when I lost 500 views, and was just relieved that I only lost another hundred views the next day Sunday. Weekends are normally low traffic for me, but would recover Monday... that didn't happen. Last few days, my traffic has plateaued on 700-800 views a day. So, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Dear Rosie...I did some checking an hour or so ago to see if I was still on your FOLLOWER list. Thank you, Jesus, I am. Are you on MY Follower List? And how can I "invite" you to do that? Sincerely, KENNETH
This happening to a few hubbers. One day you have traffic and the next day it is completely gone. It might come back but the pattern might repeat. There is nothing you can really do. There have been many theories why this happening: our content is not good, it is awkwardly written, there are too many ads, the bounce rates are too high, etc... but there is no definite answer. It's all speculation. Nobody can come out and say do this. It is very frustrating to not know why we are losing traffic.
I was just reading yet another search engine review site's take on Panda recovery and how to achieve it, and the one thing that seems to be the angle which people just aren't as willing to accept as the result is "thin content."
What was learned was Panda seems to make an "all or nothing" call on a domain, and if it doesn't like multiple pages of the domain, it winds up devaluing all of it. The testers weren't able to come up with a solid percentage, for example X percent will cause your domain to be devalued.
I think that last bit is really telling. It shows that it's not a case of some sort of standard being applied across the board, it really does vary from domain to domain. And when different strategies were tried for recovery (just make new content, ditch poor content fast and then make new, just do quickie-fixes like delete RSS) they found out that the folks who quickly killed off poor content and then began serious efforts to generate new quality content had the overall best recovery although it came at the price of dropping/removing pages right away.
And the testers learned that once a domain was devalued, it was harder to prove it's worth and restore traffic and rankings. I think that's what a lot of people who lost traffic here and haven't seen any gains since the subdomain switch are up against.
Aye. The whole damn thing's a big mess. If you'd seen the way my stats behaved in October you'd be fairly convinced that something's seriously wrong on HP. If you weren't already.
But what do Google call 'thin content'. I tend to write fairly long hubs and do a lot of research before I write them, so what are they looking for?
I always thought it was because I wrote on a lot of different topics that was causing the problems, but so do many other hubbers who have not 'plunged'.
This is what is so frustrating - if only someone could point out the hubs or the topics that were causing the problems and why, then I could do something about it. Do I have to delete the lot and start from scratch?
I'm also questioning the "thin" content. Why are my other profiles not considered thin when I write the same on them? Why is it that only this main profile where most of my money comes from is being targeted. I'm ready to open yet ANOTHER profile and move stuff just to experiment.
I'm probably getting too thin-skinned about it all, but it just felt like it was another dig that wasn't particularly helpful.
I'm more than happy if someone comes along and says it those 'toys' hubs that are wrong or your jewelry hubs are a problem because etc, but if a whole sub domain can be iced because of one or two articles that Google thinks is 'thin', then isn't every hubber here walking on a knife edge every time they publish a new hub? Or am I just not getting that I am not capable of writing a decent hub, in which case I should do us all a favour and hit the delete account button.
Well I just read your robin hub and it's FAR from thin...quite the opposite. If that's not good content I don't know what is. I wish someone could give us real answers.
Thanks theherbivorehippi, glad you liked the robins! It's getting late over here in the UK, so I think that I should just stop fretting and just read a bit before I go to sleep. Night all!
I feel the same. If I have 'thin' content, and I might well do on some sales hubs, then why are so many other accounts with similar stuff not being hit?
I feel that the vast majority of my hubs are quality.
If I don't write quality content, why did I win two hubnuggets, and win a couple of prizes in the various contests?
Why have I had several hubs on the front pages for weeks at a time? Even poor old Sexy Cat Costumes was a featured hub here on HP though I dare say it never will again after it was dragged up for inspection.
Why are some of my blogs and sites riding high in the SERPS, because you know, I wrote them too, and Google knows it.
I think before anyone throws accusations around, they should think very carefully about the people they are likely to offend, and if causing offense isn't the intention, it is perhaps better to say nothing at all.
I agree Izzy, I would really appreciate anyone reading any of my work and e mailing me if they think it is thin content and why! (ok I just want another view or two) I dont know, the only other thing I thought of was maybe its because we write in English as opposed to American English? Just a thought (probably clutching at straws)
I write in American English so that blows that theory. It was a fabulous effort though!
ok, so i sit here night after night with another theory that bites the dust within minutes.
I have decided that the account will be dismantled after christmas and bits placed elsewhere. I am developing my Number 2 account in the way that I want- on the basis of what i have learned whilst I have been here and not caring if the hubs are read- surprisngly they are being read- so I am at least partially happy
I wouldn't do that.
What is to stop your number 2 account plunging tomorrow, or in 6 months time, or in a year's time?
Maybe this account will go up then? Who knows.
My #2 account is for building, and this one is for chatting in the forums I suppose - it's not much good for anything else!
But, you know although it's been almost 3 months in the wilderness for me, this account could come back tomorrow, and if I mess around with it and remove hubs, there won't be much left to recover.
So to you and every other plunger out there, hang in there...work on something else just now but don't change your plunged account, especially if it did well before.
I would love it if you and CMHypno recovered tomorrow as I would know it ws just a matter of time and mine would be around the corner.
Seriously bed time methinks, working tomorrow so I need some shut eye- good luck to all on overnight traffic. I am going to bed happy as tonights traffic has shot up.......................4 views more than last night!!
Damned if we do, damned if we don't! What to do! Leave them in, move them some place else! Head spinning!
Have been enjoying writing fiction for the contest, so I should probably just concentrate on that for this month and stop picking at my other hubs and fretting.
Your main account is far too good just to be a forum talker, Izzy, so I hope you wake up tomorrow to a surge!
I know what your other account is Case1worker - you can run, but you can't hide!
I clutched at that straw at one time too - I really should log off and go to sleep!
Unless those contests were being judged by SEO specialists who were testing them for best performance on Google, you shouldn't take winning as a sign that the Hubs you produced are what Google thinks is the best. After all, they had nothing to do with contests or judging.
I think you could get better results/earnings by focusing on evergreen topics, by doing keyword analysis to find out how and why people find your Hubs (to fix misdirected content) and by heavily reworking your lowest-performing 25%.
I may be putting words in Izzy's mouth, but I don't think Izzy was saying she thought the criteria used by human judges on HP are the same as the criteria used by Google when it comes to evaluating quality.
And based on some of the stuff that Google seems to 'like', I'd say that's just as well.
LOL, ain't that the case!
I don't think I have ever seen the SERPS as bad as they are now.
The other day I wanted a little hand with my new network adapter, so I googled it.
I was there for literally hours reading snippets here and snippets there, but nothing that answered my query.
Kicking myself for not doing it sooner, but I finally switched to DuckDuckGo, and there was my exact query match returns right there at the top of the SERPS.
Took me less than 10 minutes to fix my problem once I had found the articles I was looking for.
Yes, I've been starting to use Duckduckgo as well.
I do still use Google for most of my searches (well, Scroogle actually but they ride on Google's coat tails so to speak), but I tend to find that if I'm searching for anything technically complex, I sometimes have to delve down to about the 20th position in the SERPs below all the bloody eHow and Yahoo Answers "articals".
What gets me about eHow and Yahoo answers is that sometimes you get a really good page that answers what you were looking for, but most times you don't.
You have to read to see though, instead of there being a way for Google to say, 'this article is good, but this isn't'.
Isn't that what their algo 'improvements' are supposed to do though?
It shouldn't matter what platform you write on if your article is good. In which case, they shouldn't penalise whole domains when it could mean burying good articles that people are looking for.
Absolutely, and I brought those things up only to show that my writing has been looked upon favourably by some at least.
As for SEO, I have been practising it as best I could since I first started learning about it. It stood me pretty well in the past, and post-Panda, so I don't think I have got it that wrong.
Your suggestion about concentrating on the bottom 25% of hubs is a good one.
Unfortunately, that 25% has risen to 95%, which makes it a bit impossible really, unless I want to re-write all my work which was good enough before and not now for some unknown reason.
Which may be the case, but I'm not convinced it would help at this stage.
I think it's unfair to state that we have "thin content" without actually looking at our hubs.
On squidoo I have a number of pages that are in tier 1. I have pages on hubpages that have been facebook liked over 200 times. I have videos on youtube that have been viewed over 80,000 times. I have looked at other hubbers who have plunged and their content looks as helpful as your content relache.
I get 5 views/a day from google here on hubpages under this account when it was getting 100+ views a month ago. My theory: Something is wrong with hubpages. My other account is doing fine but I am afraid to add content to it.
And IzzyM you should be proud that your content was recognized by people and not a dumb robot. That's what the google algorithm is supposed to be trying to find: content loved by people not Seos. Anyone can put up a page on google and rank it, but that doesn't mean people are going to like it.
If your theory is something is wrong with our content then have a look at it and tell us what we are doing wrong because you can help us Relache.
I did make my comments earlier after reviewing a variety of the Hubs of people who've been posting in this read. And I have said what I think is wrong.
But if you want me to do specific line-edits and rewrites, to be honest, there's no benefit for me to be developing other people's Hubs. I do email my referrals from time to time, asking if anyone would like advice, but so far, not a single one has taken me up on the offer. And one of my referrals used to earn me close to $100 per month, and now she's down to 1/10th of that, and I can tell it's because her Hubs are full of vacuous content, but is she going to be receptive to the idea of having to rewrite content for several hundred hubs? I see her post and complain about her earnings, but for the most part, she just keeps wishing someone else would fix her Hubs...
I do appreciate that you are trying to help, but I don't think that anyone is asking for any other hubber to give up their own time for specific edits or fixes on individual hubs (sorry if it came over that way) - just for the HP staff to give some rather more specific guidelines about what the problems are. And I don't think that all the plungers are writing reams of 'vacuous' hubs, although in big accounts you are bound to have some that are fluffier than others, or not up to the same standard as others.
The trouble is, at the moment I could delete content or change it, thinking that was what was causing the problem, only to find that it was other hubs that Google had a problem with?
If this isn't looking down on other people, I'll never know what is!
Just to make it clear, I am not a referral of Relache that I know of, at least she has never emailed me!
She is talking of someone here with hundreds of hubs, who was earning $600+ a month (definitely not me then!) and Relache has just stated her hubs are full of "vacuous content".
I wish it had been mine - that "vacuous content", (in Relache's opinion) was a money earner, and if I found writing such content could earn me money I'd be doing it too!
In fact this is exactly the type of site suited to fluff - you just have to look the top search queries that bring people to this site!
But there is fluff and there is well-written fluff, and Google does not seem to know the difference.
Relache comments are not very helpful. Besides she is no seo expert. She just went and read some random article and is making judgements.
Her success has gone to her head. I consistently make a full time living with my "vacuous content" elsewhere. This is a problem with hubpages.
I also went and looked at Relache's content.
What I did note of interest is that she links to a lot of external sites and adds bits about them (no doubt adds to the total words of the hub to allow her to put as many affiliate links on her pages) and so from an SEO point of view, could this be why she hasn't been slammed like the rest of us?
Good find IzzyM.
IzzyM, I do know that google likes when you link to other authority sites in your niche especially when it is a contextual link surrounded by related content.
Here is another thread that discussed this:
Another thing you could do is link to your own hubs as well. Put a linked list like she does to related content on your subdomain. Then put a sentence or two explaining the content.
I'm not that referral either Izzy, but the 'vacuous' comment has spurred me into action and I have started gradually deleting my hubs and moving them onto my other sites. I write to make myself happy as well as for some extra cash, so after the traffic/earnings losses, I don't need all the condescending comments that are not at all constructive that have been hurled our way over the last few months.
Yes, there is obviously something wrong, but what is it? I have already made so many changes, that I can't make any more unless I know that they will actually help. I don't want someone else to waltz in and 'fix' my hubs, I just want a more accurate pointer from HP about what I have to do to make them work. After all they are losing money from this as well, so you would think that it would be in their interests? I have worked hard over the last couple of years, so rather resent insinuations that we have plunged because we can't be bothered to make the effort to write decent hubs or learn anything about SEO.
I'll start with the low score/low traffic hubs first, but its going to take a long time as you have to do the try to find all duplicates first and get them removed dance first.
I have always linked to external sites, but maybe writing the description rather than using the one that pulls through would help?
Anyway, congrats to all hubbers who are doing well and I hope that this will continue for you all and to all plungers, hope you surge again soon!
I've got to the point that when I read those kind of responses, I try to bite my tongue now and just think what comes around goes around. So be it. They won't know what it feels like until it happens to them.
I like that most people try to help each other out and not wave a flag around and say my content is better than yours. It's not like we were never receiving traffic after the sub-domain switch. We were and it disappeared overnight.
She makes it look like we were never receiving traffic. I wonder how relache would feel if she was receiving 10,000 searches a day today and tomorrow she received 1% of that.
When she was waving the flag around I thought her content would blow me away. I am not into body art, nipple piercing, paganism, and tattoos but it looks helpful.
She lacks editing and I have noticed she has minor spelling mistakes in her content as well, such as in her Oregon-Weekend-Getaways article. In the last paragraph, she spelled "want" as "wan". Of course, I am being picky but she was the one waving the flag around so I had to take a look. We all make these type of errors but her content is not as perfect as she makes it out to be.
If relache is one of the top hubbers here on hubpages she would get a backlink to her content from hubpages which I think is a page rank 6 link. I have received one of these and let me tell you, you become unstoppable in your niche.
That is great authority in google's eyes. I think Hubpages even interviewed her and she went to its office. They gave her a link from their blog.
Of course!! This is it exactly. All those doing well are those with a beautiful PR6 backlink from Hubpages!!
Why can we not all get one? Everyone is just as deserving as those few 'elites' and I'm not talking about the daft name they gave to helper hubbers, I mean the real elites that are sitting there raking it in thanks to a top level backlink.
I have one hub that has continued to do well despite the slump of all my other hubs. Funnily enough, it has a single PR5 organic backlink. That is what is holding it there. A PR6 to my subdomain would be perfect.
Anyone here with a nice PR6 backlink plunged? http://hubpages.com/success/#
WE are not deserving. We have not been here long enough and we do not have the right to a valued opinion. lol
Okay, dumb question: How do we know if we have that PR6 backlink?? Is it to our profile page?
I would be interested to know this too as it is the first I have heard about this PR6 backlink.
Each profile image on the success page is a link to the persons profile. You can check the pagerank (PR) of a page using a pagerank checker (just google it there are plenty of them!)
I still don't understand the earlier reference that was made to PR6 as having been somehow provided by HP to 'preferred' Hubbers, and how could we check to see if we were on the PR6 'elite' list. I am sure we can check to see what PR our profile is, but I am left confused by the original comment made by Izzy which read as follows:
"Of course!! This is it exactly. All those doing well are those with a beautiful PR6 backlink from Hubpages!!
Why can we not all get one? Everyone is just as deserving as those few 'elites' and I'm not talking about the daft name they gave to helper hubbers, I mean the real elites that are sitting there raking it in thanks to a top level backlink.
I have one hub that has continued to do well despite the slump of all my other hubs. Funnily enough, it has a single PR5 organic backlink. That is what is holding it there. A PR6 to my subdomain would be perfect.
Anyone here with a nice PR6 backlink plunged? http://hubpages.com/success/# "
Your profile is PR 3. Not sure if this was a question or not?
Thanks for this. Most of that last comment of mine was a quote from Izzy, but I have never quite worked out how to add quotes in comments if not replying to the original comment i.e. so they appear in a box within my comment. What I was curious about was her reference to the PR6 that somehow she implied was provided to 'special' Hubbers by Hubpages themselves. Habee was also confused as she replied to Izzy's comment on page 7 of this thread.
Misty, I think that she meant that the hubbers featured on the front page get a PR6 backlink from being linked to that page, rather than their profiles have PR6 (though they could have, I've not checked)
!!! I don't know how to capture quotes either! On a side note...if someone could explain this that would be great.
I agree with CMHypno above me...I think Izzy was referring to that one main page that links to certain Hubbers (although I see this page as a PR 5 now...was it once a 6 perhaps?). I've yet to find an actual Hubber with a PR 6 so I can only assume that's what she meant?
The success stories page has PR 6, so anyone listed on there gets a PR6 link to their profile. There are about 12 hubbers on there, myself and Habee included.
I can see why others might feel we've got some kind of special treatment and resent it, but while it is nice to have a good link to my profile, it hasn't prevented my account from being up and down like a yo yo!
Most of the other hubbers listed on that page have also had surges and plunges going by their live traffic graphs, so that one link doesn't seem to be negating the effect of panda. I wish it did.
Thanks for explaining that Susana. Funny, it never even occurred to me to think that the success stories page rank would have an impact on a Hubbers success. Then Izzy's comment made Habee and me wonder what she meant exactly.
Thanks Susana, you got what I was asking.
So what you are saying is that these hubbers have plunged but are on the rollercoaster as opposed to plunged and staying down?
That was my question, if anyone with a PR6 backlink (from HP) had plunged and stayed down.
If you click "read more" on each hubber on that page you can see what their traffic is doing. Many seem to be going down again after a fairly recent surge. So no - no-one there seems to have plunged and stayed there as of this time, though that could easily change. It's shifting sand.
Oh wow! That was interesting! I didn't know that was there. Those graphs took ages to load with my poor bandwidth, I probably didn't stay long enough to see them before, Thanks
Sorry to see yours plunging just now, hopefully it'll come up again in time for Christmas.
Hi, Izzy. My hubs plunged with Panda, but starting on August 23, they started rising, and they're still rising. (rising - traffic and earnings wise)
Of course, I'm elated with this, but I worry every single day that they'll plunge again.
Congrats on your continued success and hope it stays that way
Thats how I feel Habee, I think the way to overcome the fear is to continually keep producing content, whether that is websites or hubs. The more you have, the more you have to fall back on. Izzy has the right idea with her sites.
Thanks Susana! This proves that the plunging and surging has nothing to do with vacuous content relache mentioned. I am sure you will recover.
I was on the point of taking down all the hubs from my second account and posting them elsewhere. And then, six weeks after my no. 2 account's plunge, the views went back up again - not back to a stellar level, but to around 50 - 60 a day as opposed to 5 a day!
All I'd done was take down 8 hubs. They were probably among the best hubs on that account too. And all of the remaining ones (like the ones I took down) are sales hubs.
I have to say, the plunging does seem totally arbitrary. My suspicion is that the only constant winners in the "Google dance" are (a) big-brand sites and (b) Google's profits.
Glad that your traffic has gone back up Empress - good argument not to move things.
When you say sales hubs, what do you mean? I'm trying to understand all this, and I'm new to writing and to hubpages? Do you just mean hubs with ebay and amazon ads, or is it more than that?
Sales hubs are written specifically for sales.
I've written a few of then since I discovered them at least six months after I joined the site.
The best way to describe sales hubs is to think of red widgets, blue widgets, green widgets.
The world loves green widgets, everybody writes about them. All the top sites dominate the search engines with green widgets.
But when you look at red and blue widgets, half the world is on the bandwagon too.
But hardly anyone has mentioned green widgets with pink ribbons, and you know all about pink ribbons with green widgets, because you got one for your birthday recently.
Sorry, carried away there.
Sales hubs are hubs solely written to promote a product or products.
For some reason they work well here on HP. Or did.
So like I did a product review for zeroWater which I purchased and liked, and then put Amazon capsule selling the products associated with ZeroWater. Is that what you mean?
Yes and no.
It is quite possible to write about sales products you have never tried, without being a salesperson, because as a writer and researcher you can check multiple sources online and read what is being said about a particular product, even if it is one you have never tried.
You then take that information and turn it into your own words, with sales capsules of course.
That is a complete sales hub.
If you have tried the product, you can call it a review.
I have no doubt a lot on here call their sales hubs reviews, when they have never tried the product, but who says you have to be truthful online. You just have to sound more honest than the next person.
I am honest, I only call it a review if I have personally tried it.
Sorry for making this a longer post, but think of an item for sale on Amazon.
You get the product description if you are lucky, and maybe a comment or two from those who have bought it.
Which tells the searcher very little.
So you search and search, you might spend a couple of hours doing this, till you find out a little more information about the product for sale.
Then you write an article around it. It's good points, it's bad poins, what people have said about it, what you think about it (assuming you have used it) and enclose link(s) to it.
Sales hub. (one example of)
Thanks for the reply. But it might be good to try it under a different alias maybe?
Writing afresh until a new alias just gives you a new start. I still don't buy into the theory that google wants our subdomains to be one topic, but I'm still listening.
Starting afresh takes you right back to where you were when you first started 3 months ago,
Actually, 3 months is nothing, but you have 100 hubs in that time which is some going!
If I were you, I would try sales hubs in your name as it is now. If they don't work, then move them to a new subdomain.
But right now, from an SEO viewpoint, they have a tremendous start. (with internal linking)
I'm almost fearful to say this after everything I have read in this hub, but I just checked some of my top hubs on google, and I am ranking first page on several, and 2nd page on several more. And I only checked a few. So I am happy. Maybe I shouldn't say that too loud. I'm still not making money, but it is slowly increasing, and I don't have the high earnings that y'all have lost to compare to. just sharing.
I am on my second plunge and don't consider my hubs obviously short, thin, garbled, spammy or any other such thing. Unless people have a reasonable idea what the problem might really be, I think they just like to point fingers and assume we "deserve" it somehow. I'd also like to know why the same content goes from zero to $$$$ and back again for no apparent reason.
I feel your pain. The first two weeks of October were the highest my traffic has ever been and then in 24 hours I watched it just sink lower and lower. I don't know whether to be more grateful that I'm not up and down like a yo-yo or to be aggravated that I'm just stuck at the bottom of a purge.
Maybe the concept of plungers somehow 'deserving' it makes non-plungers feel more secure that it will never happen to them? Hope it doesn't, wouldn't wish it on anyone, especially as most hubbers have worked hard on their hubs.
But I don't like not being able to solve things, and there must be a reason!
I think the problem with Google is Google. Until they are able to explicitly define what qualifies as quality content in their eyes, writers don't really stand a chance. They are constantly moving the goal posts. What they rated 6 months ago is no longer valid to them, and I wouldn't be surprised if what rates with Google at the present time falls off the end of a cliff in 6 months time. I'm a relatively new writer here and therefore don't rely on HP for my income, if I'd have invested years here, like many of you, I would also be furious now. This is always at the back of my mind, hence, I've not written as many hubs as I usually would. It could be me plunging tomorrow.
Nobody has the right to come here and point the finger when they haven't even looked at our content. It is very hurtful when a lot of you have put so much effort into your hubpages and someone tells you it is not good. It is good and you know it is. Don't let someone tell you otherwise.
Even if I wasn't a plunger I wouldn't be talking down to others. That's just bad karma. This is supposed to be a community. We will figure this out.
Could "thin content" possibly mean:
not enough content?
topic not "deep" enough?
Well i wish i knew.
Personally, i think what relache is trying to tell us is what she read in some recent SE review.
It is worth considering because since we are all at loss as to what's going on right now, any suggestion, no matter how useful or irrelevant it may sound to each and everyone of us, is worth taking a second look at.
Obviously many of us are at our wits end and in a foul mood. I know i am, but i wont let that cloud my judgement.
Who knows, one of these remote suggestions may actually/finally hit the mark, though im not holding my breath.
I am not sure if anybody is following what happened to Suite 101. I was reading the webmaster forums and Suite 101 also switched to subdomains just like hubpages.
Apparently, Suite101 did have a boost in traffic for about 2 months after switching to subdomains. They were receiving the same amount of traffic as pre panda. Then on Oct 13th or 14th they got hit bad. It was worse than Panda. People actually thought the traffic counter was "broken."
So I don't think anyone should think that their content is safe on hubpages and that subdomains are a cure regardless of how "good" their content is.
The fact that some very good hubbers are complaining they are receiving no traffic on hubpages should be a wakeup call. You have to be proactive not reactive. It's time to stop blaming them.
There is a thread on the Suite 101 forum talking about this but you have to be a member.
Here are alexa's traffic stats on hubpages.
When I switch it to page views and pick max to see the whole year it seems like page views spiked around august then returned to almost the same level as before the subdomain change was implemented.
Take a look at suite 101 as well. They really tanked in October.
My traffic has been down since a huge spike in Sept. I made more money off the new Hubpages program than Adsense. I've since opted out of the HP ad program and am earning more from Adsense. It's a trial and error process I guess. I'm hoping that Hubpages management can reach an agreement with Google to allow higher quality Hubs to get indexed into the top search results, sort of like eHow must have done. If eHow didn't have some kind of arrangement with Google, how would so many of the often mediocre how-to articles show up on page one?
I am going to try opening a new account. This one is flat-lining.
Before you start judging your content to harshly, I wonder if you have been using Google much lately?
Ive been finding my search results to be progressively more awful. Wikipedia will show up as first position for a match for a single word in a ten word specific query.
All their attempts to "know what we want' seems to equal some sort of mass dumbing down of results to me.
I have content all over the place, stuff goes up, stuff goes down , have enough of it and something should be doing well.
But ... I really cant use google for real research anymore, and I can use advanced operaters and such in my queries ... I cant imagine what "normal" users are seeing in results.
Is it just me? This isnt a "im mad at google" thing either, its a math equation run by a business, nothing for me to be angry at ... but it seems broken and worthless for all but the most simple of searches and I dont think hard working writers should judge themselves to harshly if google doesnt give them love.
Might be a good reminder to avoid search engine dependence and avoid Hp dependence ... spread yourself as far and wide as possible, publish a kindle book or two, start your own blogs, give true affmarketing a try , use your web knowledge to do some local business work etc etc
I use multiple streams including ebooks. But I was hoping this would be one fo the streams, not just a drip or two.
I believe that taking any of Google's suggestions seriously at this point would be incredibly naive. The same goes for any self-declared arbiters of "thin content," "good content," and whatever else.
Here's a quote of Andrew Johnson from SEOBook, with a very sober, in my opinion, take on things:
Google is a monopoly who abuse their power and break their own rules (regarding spam, quality of content, ranking issues) on various levels, and the consensus that seems to gel across the board (talking about professional SEOs like Andrew Johnson) inevitably indicates that the guidelines are disingenuous, and essentially designed to undermine the little guy, without any chance for remission.
Certainly taking Google's instructions at face value would be unreasonable, and personally I find it ridiculous when folks gleefully echo G's agenda, apparently without any real idea of what's going on. Ignorance is bliss, especially when the dollars pile up.
I am not having a problem with Google... my Google traffic is pretty consistent but my HP traffic is pretty much gone.
Despite me publishing more of what I consider "good hubs" mine is pretty static - I read somewhere in these HP forums that a "new wave of panda" or an update to the Google algorithm has been released - so maybe you were high up in their testing phase?
It's the Google 'freshness' content algo which shouldn't actually impact us, but probably will anyway.
I searched today for 'iPhone 4s release date' and was treated to everything but the actual release date of the phone.
I did find it eventually, but really it should have been immediately available in the top 5 results.
It's not rocket science.
No it's not rocket science. It is so far beyond rocket science that it's incredible. Calculating a interplanetary orbit is absolute childs play compared to constructing an AI even as simple as Panda.
Buzz Aldrin made it to the moon with a computer that was like an abacus compared to even that first 8086 from Intel. It was little more than an adding machine on steroids. And your iphone is many quantum jumps ahead of that early computer that was itself far advanced from the first one to take man to the moon. Rocket science is simple.
Don't knock Googles efforts too much. Although pitiful and pathetic, deplorable and depressing, those efforts are far ahead of anything else that has been found.
No they're not. They are trying to control the world in a simple algorithm and it can't be done.
Take a step back, and look at duckduckgo which was nothing more than a one man band until recently.
But even with heavyweight financial institutions now backing this guy, his search engine is far superior to Google's. in its current state.
But, Izzy, if duckduckgo ever gets big enough to attract the real gamers it will be gamed just as google was. He will have to make changes, just as google has.
They aren't doing this for fun; they are doing it in an effort to provide what the searcher really wants, not what the game player wants google to think the searcher wants.
No doubt at all that along the way they are also trying to maximize their income, but I do think it is secondary here. They are trying to provide the results that the ordinary searcher wants to see. They just haven't figured out how to do it yet. Not with all the gamers and scammers out there.
*edit* I would add that I was referring to googles efforts to make an AI, not so much to their efforts to make a search engine.
I'd never hoped to see someone explain what I'd already thought in such a great way - I had that same essential thought - but I'd .....never thought it out so completely.
You are one bright mutha!
Yep! A 40 watt bulb....in a world of 100 watters.
Think about it though - we have only the faintest of clues about how our mind works, either mechanically (electron flow, etc.) or psychologically. And we're trying to build one! Is it any wonder that Panda is a such a babe that gets it all wrong?
I tend to think that trying to decipher what exactly the Google algorithm is all about.....is probably more difficult than rocket science.
I just do what I do - try to do in better and better - share a few links, and hope for the best...
I was hitting 200 views per day and that traffic with both added together is down to 40-50.
Everybody aims for Google traffic, what are you complaining about? HP traffic will never bring you money, organic traffic will.
It is all related... HP is where the promotion comes from, the +1, etc. The view lengths that are measured by Google.. many come form HP... Its basic SEO... IF HP traffic is not worthwhile.. .why not just post directly to my webpage? HP traffic is more then worthwhile...
No no no, this is a community of writers but at the end of the day is worth SFA without organic traffic.
Your aim is organic traffic, Google especially.
I should know, most of my hubs get organic traffic, but right at this time not Google.com traffic.
As a result, my earnings have been slashed. I just have to sit tight and hope it returns.
I like how you think about that! I really do! I like all the people who comment my hubs quite a lot - without thinking that they are helping me out.
Sunforged -- I see your point about the "dumbing down."
My impression -- based on two years of writing content for websites that require strict adherence to guidelines designed to produce a high rate of content relevance -- is that Google sorts by relevance to the title. This is why some garbage -- in terms of writing quality, factual accuracy, and about any other standard -- hits the top. This is a simplification, of course. Google has managed to reduce some of the content farm click-bait at the top of the searches -- McArticles written for no other reason than to lure people to ads. The surviving content farms have had to adapt and change their standards.
There's rarely anything in the top Google results that's useable for professional writing. The only thing I use unfiltered Google for is title interpretation -- to see what results show up when a reader Googles the exact title I'm about to write for a client. I Google every title I write, so the one positive thing I can say is that HubPages and Squiddoo show up in Google's first two pages fairly often now.
The synergy between niche, keyword competition, ratio of ads to text, keyword density, quality links -- that's the sweet spot I'm working on sussing out.
I've registered with two other rev share sites. It will be interesting to compare traffic in other venues and with my own website.
Damn If I didn't get impressed with you all of a sudden...great comment!
Thanks. I like what you wrote above: "I just do what I do - try to do in better and better - share a few links, and hope for the best..." Your method may be the wiser course.
Since I seem to be hard-wired to analyze things and conduct experiments -- I'll probably stick to my plan to compare different strategies. I like to leave room for spontaneity, though. Last night I published my first Sqiddoo lens -- without running all the keywords first. I wrote my most popular hub before I knew anything about SEO or online writing. My favorite of my recent hubs I wrote out of passion for the topic -- I just found out it's on the hot list in its topic area. HP has been my favorite venue -- I'm trying to find a way to make this work. Discouraged lately, so I'm hoping to make traffic magic elsewhere.
I am saying that revenue is down about 75% over the last four days... as is hub views within HP... Google traffic is down about 10%... I am not having an issue with Google... My organic traffic is pretty much sticking... so what has happened with in HP to cause this drop in traffic?
Its something we are not allowed to discuss, but if your revenue is down, take a look at your CPM because it is certainly down too by proportionately more than your traffic.
Possibly not. Hubbers won't click, but will provide views that pay via HPads. If that is the primary source of income and HP views are the primary source of traffic (possible with 74 hubs in 7 months and less than 10,000 total views, particularly if a lot of them are new hubs) then a big drop in HP views could result in a large drop in income.
If Dave has written several hubs per week, for instance, and then stopped writing a week ago then its normal to see a drop in HP traffic about now. At least that's what my experience as been in the past. Google traffic would remain constant or even rise a little, but about now HP traffic would go to near 0.
Hubbers not don't only click, but I would venture so far as to say their views are not counted in HPads.
I have not seen any evidence whatsoever to say that they are, and if I was an advertiser, I wouldn't want to pay them either.
I love other hubbers reading my hubs, of course I do, but they will never make me money.
Two separate things - hubbers and organic traffic people.
At least hubbers are literate, more than we can say for half the world out there!
But the money comes from organic traffic, unless something has changed recently and no-one told me about it?
Just the other day one of my hubs made hub of the day. Traffic for that one hub was over 300, by far passing the next best at 150 views.
Total traffic went from around 1600 to very nearly 2000 - obviously a result of that one hub that was all hubbers. Not one google visit. Numbers from HP stats.
Numbers from the earnings section show that day at 1548, which is in line with the stats page showing 2000 - the impressions are always lower than the stats page by about that percentage. CPM stayed about constant or bumped up a little, which left income going up appropriately for those extra views.
Conclusion - hubber views count and provide income through HPads.
No, one day certainly isn't definitive, but it is indicative. It also makes me wonder if I should write a few more hubs aimed at hubbers. The only problem is that my experience shows they will find it and visit for a few weeks, but then it dies forever.
The one day that I had an author score of 99 - I didn't publish anything, and my traffic was up by about three hundred total views. without providing the rest of the numbers (I'm that lazy) - my HP income the day was up quite a bit too.
I think part of my issue right now is the contest... and people are reading stuff there and busy writing their own stuff. I posted into that photo galleries before the contest and hubs would get hundreds of views per week... right now I think it is just saturated and people are missing whats in there. SO... Lzzy... thank you for reminding me I was whining... for truly I was... now... I going to go write a hub on something more productive... maybe Gumby
that is pretty much what has happened... wilderness. That and I have been mentoring new hubbers... so I need to write more of my normal stuff and get on with it.
I think you used the word complaining... to me they are the same... a sales hub about complaining would be rewritten ... now that you whine...
I noticed they have tweaked the site a bit could that have had an affect?
At least you kept your account. After 1/2 million readers and over 1200 articles, my Hubpagage account was disabled as well as my monthly income. I never received an answer for the account being disabled. No income from HUbpages since March of 2011. This is a new account and it is difficult to make a comeback after two years of writing reaching author score of 100 and having to start over because of no fault of your own.
I've seen in other forum threads someone other than the banned person demanding to know why someone was banned - and HP staff came into the thread and told everyone why they'd banned that person in a pretty direct way.
Basically, the person was banned for being overly aggressive towards staff - was the verdict.
I'm not willing to say that I just don't believe you, but what I will say is that I've always got staff to tell me why they had problems with whichever hub of mine that they'd "unpublished." It might have taken me sending three or four e mails, but I always got answers eventually.
Just a theory, but is there anyone here that updates a singular hub regularly with new information? Is there someone that treats a singular hub more like a lens or blog? I've probably seen some, I just can't remember off hand. I'd love to hear what kind of results (not figures) that is bringing you.
I'm experiencing drop in traffic since last 2-3 weeks and still it is not recovered at all.
Well I am happy to report that most of my traffic is back. There are some things I can myself to improve my google traffic and I suppose I am going to have to pay more attention to the world outside of HP in terms of content. I enjoy my cozy little nest I have built for myself here... I have three websites which I do not utilize very much to support my writing, and I could write better content in a Google type format... keywords, etc. So I think I will try to concentrate on the things I can change and be satisfied as a writer who has a place to write!
Overall, my traffic has been slowly improving since August. I have noticed a decent jump in Google traffic over the last few weeks as well but very little earnings yet as a result. My AdSense tanked in October.
A backlink to a high ranking site is beneficial. But one alone won't do it.
For the record, my stats have gone nuts once again. It's plain crazy.
Crazy good or crazy bad? Good I hope! Maybe I'll follow!
Shooting up. Like hundreds an hour. I don't consider that a good thing.This is the second time in three weeks. It's kinda ridiculous. I feel like someone's messing with my account.
Don't get het up over those that are used as an example. That's exactly what they are. They're not being favored, they're just hubbers that agreed to having their personal success on HP shared as a means of attracting new users. Just business.
I think that plungers are just getting frustrated frogdropping, so straws are being clutched. I'm beginning to think that there is no rhyme nor reason to it, so all that we can do is diversify a bit. And I am also trying to remember that I write primarily for the enjoyment of it (although I do need the money), so need to relax a bit and not get so wound up. As someone said to me 'it ain't world peace'! But when people's incomes and livelihoods are on the line..........
My traffic to my best hub is only getting better, 2300 views in 24 hours, although earnings have slowed down over the weekend for some strange reason...they were great during the week :S
My traffic was climbing and climbing for months now. I was pretty ecstatic, but then it dropped quite a bit last week. Last month was my best month ever, and now I am back to where I was about two months ago. Kinda disappointed, but hoping to bounce back.
Ho hum, after enjoying three weeks of (relatively) high traffic, it looks as though my #2 account has plunged again.
Thanks in advance for not telling me my writing is spammy or "reads funny".
I just joined HubPages about 2 weeks ago and had quite a reasonable amount of traffic during my first week. I was pretty happy with the earnings and I even posted 2 hubs on it.
Out of nowhere, my traffic starting plunging around 1st of Nov. Everyday it got worse. I was wondering if the peak during my first week at HP was due to some beginner luck or something else. I sure hope not!
Best of luck to all HP writers!
Ok adding on to my previous comment, I have noticed my traffic picking up significantly. I guess maybe the drop was just temporary.
Did your significant drop in traffic happen mainly over a Friday and Saturday by any chance? If so this is perfectly normal and most of us experience this. Usually it begins to pick up again on Sunday and is back to normal by Monday. Don't worry, you will get used to this. If not, then it could be that your initial views were mostly hubbers, but not Google traffic, so it dies off fairly quickly.
Yes misty, I think it started plunging during the weekends. I would have thought traffic would be better on weekends. It's now picking up. Thanks for the explanation
I guess all our readers are out partying at the weekends and not reading stuff on the Internet or perhaps this is when they go shopping, spend time with their families, do the gardening etc. I don't know, but certainly my views drop about 20 - 25% over Friday and Saturdays, which in my case is around 2500 views a day less than other days of the week.
I was just looking at my Analytics reports for referring sub-domains and noticed that the referral user whom I said produced several hundred pages of vacuous content was missing. They vanished from my reports sometime in the last day or two of October and when I looked up their account here just now, it turns out they have been banned.
The moderators banned this person about four or five days before my comments about vacuous content so it would seem I'm not the only one who felt it was not a quality account.
Were you talking about mr voodoo by any chance?
He was banned in the last few days for sending an abusive letter to staff while under the influence.
I'm amazed I'm still here after some of the letters I've sent to staff - as they'd unpublish something for what I would always feel were horrible reasons....as I'd be enjoying some drinks.
So long as you don't make personal attack you should be OK, I'd imagine.
He apparently called them a 'cock' as in a cockerel which I wouldn't consider especially insulting but there you go.
All that work down the drain.
I don't think anyone has any right to call anyone names. It is a privilege to use hubpages. This is their business and if you don't want to use hubpages or if it is not working for you then you have the ability to just leave.
Nope, he was not one of my referrals, and as you mentioned, we know what happened to him. His making several new personas with the same name didn't help his case either.
wilderness: All of my hubs are written for the hubpage viewer...some spill over into the google domain but that is not my focus. I also expect that hubs here will have a shorter lifespan depending on topics and I write them with that in mind. I replace them with something newer and I activly build my follower network. In doing so I end up writing many hubs on several topics. The goal is to mimic a monthly magazine. Where readers can get a tidbit on a regular schedule and many keep coming back to read whats happening in that series of hubs. I also expect that not all of my followers are interested in all of my hubs. I try to keep my followers to three times the number of my hubs or higher. As such, I generally get good readership from many hubs. A single hub goal of 100 reads works well for me and some hubs have gone into the 300 read range without a great deal of work on my part. My traffic by-the-way has pretty much all returned.
That's great that your traffic has returned.
I don't know that ever heard of anyone aiming hubs at hubbers. In the past that just wasn't effective earnings wise because hubbers don't click.
With HPads and impression type ads from it, though, I've wondered if it might to work to write to hubbers now. HP is not a social network, and I really doubt that you will build a follower network like you can on other sites, but if you can find a subject hubbers in general are interested in you might have a winner here.
I use the topic tab to find categories of things I am interested in writing about... then I find hubbers who write in those categories and convert them to followers. This way I build specific followers for specific hubs. There are 250K accounts here... and as such, this traffic is more easily accessible to me then is google traffic and since I have google ads... maybe I am winning in both ways...
I make most of my money from freelance writing for clients who make all of their money from SEO. I utilize their requests in my hub and without having to deal with backlinking, etc I get pretty good traffic from google... not a great deal but it increases respectfully on a monthly basis. I have a goal of doubling my revenue each month and for the most part I make that goal. As long as those trends continue than it is just a matter of time and effort for this to be successful.
My goal was always to make at least a dollar a day from 100 hubs. Not a big ask IMHO. Not sure if even this is realistic any more... maybe, we'll see.
Did you mean a dollar a day per hub or a dollar a day across all 100 hubs?
A dollar a day across the lot--HubAds/Adsense only. I can do Amazon and I am not sure about how to use Ebay.
My advice is do ebay ASAP!!! I only just joined that, and only added ebay capsules to a few hubs - two weeks in, and I'm showing earnings.
Ah. My experience, post Panda and after the reduction in the number of "pure" adsense ad spots on each hub, is that I'm making about $2 a day across the 92 hubs in this account for HP ads/Adsense - maybe a bit more. But that's only because I'm getting a good number of views for this account! I was making the same amount before Panda and I was getting less than half the number of views.
I would definitely agree with Wesman that adding eBay is a good idea - just sign up for the eBay bit of the program and when they approve you, add relevant eBay capsules to your hubs. It won't work miracles but you do get to earn a bit extra.
TOTAL affiliates/dollar per day?
I was averaging $2 per day total affiliates......but it's been dipping lower, and I'm closer to three hundred hubs than two hundred.
My effing goal is $100/day though.....
During last month I was averaging $5-6 a day, but after the last plunge it is mat 60c to a dollar. Sigh.
My traffic was climbing nicely, but now it has tanked. I've been experimenting with Feed Shark or Tingler and hate to match the wrong causes with the wrong effects! It can't be the Panda change because everything is new.
I think you'll find it can be Panda, new or not.
Izzy...how are you looking. I don't want to jinx anything but I've been SLOWLY climbing by the hour today. I'm still down about 40% of what I was on Oct 13th but it's increasing REALLY slow. Any luck? (P.S. On a side note...one of my other very small subdomains has plunged).
No change. In fact it fell at the weekend even further than usual, although it regained that loss today.
Three months this week since August 10th. It's a long time.
The only bright light I got lasted one a and half days early September. I earned nearly $60 from that spike. Google never said to me, make it last because it's all you're getting!
They could have warned me!
Warnings would be nice. Well, I'm not jumping up and down by any means....I'm not even close to recouping all of my traffic but I don't see that obnoxious stream of blue arrows right now (there are still some). Now, I need to figure out why one of my other subdomains tanked...I'm not complaining, I'd rather that one be down than this one. OK...fingers crossed...I want you to rise too! Mine did drop terrifyingly low this weekend, much lower than ever but started creeping up late last night. Maybe you're right behind me.
I'm with you Izzy, plunged since August with only a few little spikes on individual hubs. A surge before Christmas would be nice!
I am also seeing a steady rise in the last two days. I have regained about 10% of my October traffic.
Fingers crossed for you guys, all the same
Oh my new account has plunged too.
Over the past week or so my traffic had risen from the pits of hell, but that didn't last long as this weekend (pushing into today) is the worst traffic I've ever had. I'm running on 20 page views over the last 24 hours.
Quite marvelous for 92 Hubs!!!
Oh that is bad. I am so sorry. Hope things pick up soon for you.
I like the community here at HubPages, but I really haven't been spending time of late producing Hubs because I can't make any sense of the traffic patterns.
There's no tangible reason for it either. Yes, I always hear people preaching about "thin" content and "quality" content surviving, but why do I get drastically better results over at Squidoo for the same writing?
If I'm being thrown into the "bad writer" pool here, I'm going to be a bad writer over there! In short, it doesn't add up.
I have one Squidoo lens that received nearly 2000 page views in one day as the topic came into focus and it had Amazon links on it, a Google news feed, essentially all of the things clamped down on here on HubPages.
As I've read from many of your posts here in the forums, I'm baffled.
We're not bad writers - don't listen to those who say we are.
I don't have any squidoo lenses, but I do have some sites and one has just reached #2 for a high search term, second only to Amazon and beating out the Guardian, the Observer and many other top sites for the same keyword phrase, so not bad going!
And that is without backlinking, so it can be done.
But many of us here are totally baffled as to why our hubs are tanking.
IQuest: have you considered the competition factor for the topics of your hubs? Also are you talking about HP traffic, Outside traffice, or both?
My traffic is almost exclusively from Google. And, after the subdomain switch, I will go a week or two with next to zero organic search page views, then, my traffic comes to life for a while, and then disappears again. Severe Yo-Yo pattern!
Yes, there's a lot of competition for the subjects I write on, but there's a staggering number of searches on these topics as well. Additionally, very little traffic pays quite well in terms of advertising revenue and affiliate sales.
When I had roughly 1/3 the Hubs, I received upwards of 700 page views in one day (before the subdomain switch) across my HubPages account.
Over at Squidoo, I have 28 lenses indexed on the same topics, most of which were published from July 2011 to present (due to the debacle with my account here) and I've received nearly 60,000 page views.
There's a night and day difference in performance. Again, same topics and (for good or bad) I do my own writing.
I lost some traffic from Ask because stupid Facebook page overtook me, My page is above it in all other search engines including Google
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