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The Last Straw--I'm leaving Hubpages

  1. KeithTax profile image78
    KeithTaxposted 5 years ago

    I imagine a few people will notice as my hubs disappear here and appear elsewhere. So I write this forum and my last hub detailing my discontent.

    There have been issues in the past, but nothing I would leave over. A lot of very good hubbers picked up and left Hubpages this spring and I thought they were foolish for doing so. Now I know I was the idiot.

    Last night I had one of my hubs unpublished for either unrelated links or unrelated sales items in the eBay capsule. The only links on the hub are to my other hubs (readers interested in my work might want to read more) and one eBay capsule with products of the company written about. I made some changes and resubmitted. Declined. I assume the rest of my hubs will soon follow. Tax hubs that link to tax programs are unrelated according to the TOS now.

    The unpublished hub is only the straw that broke the camel's back. In and of itself, it would not cause me to leave.

    The issue that put me on edge is the power grab of my hubs. Hubpages made it clear they want me to edit hubs to their liking so they will have less work when they steal all our hubs.

    Don't believe that? Think about it. In a short while you will earn under the HP program or not at all. Once that is complete, they will send an email telling us we have a week to remove our hubs or copyright will revert to Hubpages. This has happened to writers on other content farms.

    When the subject came up in another thread, Paul Edmondson ignored the concern. When pressed, he responded by saying that Hubpages is DCMA compliant. Really? I'm glad to hear it. But so were the other sites that made the grab for author's work. The only reason not to deny the allegation is because the process has already begun and a denial would open Hubpages to lawsuits. I give it 12-18 months and this happy ride will end. Sorry hubbers.

    In January, one of HP's staff commented that I was the best financial writer on Hubpages. I'm not surprised. One of my hubs (Passive Activity Loss Limitations) was picked up by a national accounting organization and the IRS has several offices using that hub as a guide. The regs were too complicated and I put it in simple terms while following the letter of the Code. Over a hundred of my articles have appeared in the traditional press. Over 400 articles are on my website and used by other accounting firms on their site. So now Hubpages will no longer have the best. They'll have...

    I play it straight in business. I detest getting jerked around. Unpublishing a hub that has no apparent violation (any violation on this hub is a long stretch of the imagination) is the last straw.

    God, I can't believe I was such an idiot for staying so long. I will miss the people here. You guys (and gals) have been and are the best. I beg you to consider an exit strategy. You deserve better than what is about to come.

    1. Hollie Thomas profile image59
      Hollie Thomasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Keith, I for one, will be sorry to see you go.  I'm relatively new here, but have thought about the things which are happening (most of which I do not really understand) I've decided to spread myself around a bit. I wish you the very best of luck, although I know you will not need it.

    2. Elijah S profile image76
      Elijah Sposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Paul Edmondson mentioned somewhere something in the lines of "we will not take your content."

      Seems pretty straightforward.

      I'm not very familiar with the other issues, but I understand your concern.

      1. relache profile image86
        relacheposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Paul's comment from one week ago,

        1. sunforged profile image63
          sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          If we are sharing staff responses ... How about this one?

          http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/70626?p … ost1538010






          ^This exchange occurred Post-Panda and has been proven to be a complete falsehood

          1. QuestionMaster profile image88
            QuestionMasterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Wow.

            1. frogdropping profile image86
              frogdroppingposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I was thinking more along the lines of 'oops'.

          2. Barbara Kay profile image86
            Barbara Kayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It says the post has been removed.

            1. Marisa Wright profile image93
              Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              edited as the post is apparently still there - try again Barbara!

            2. prairieprincess profile image96
              prairieprincessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I just checked and it said the post was gone. What did it say?

              1. sunforged profile image63
                sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                1. The post was quoted in full in this thread.
                2. The link is still very much live and no such message exists
                3. This thread has degraded quite rapidly...  it's a shame that any conversation that shows any type of dissent or logical thinking is so quickly turned to esl bantering and mindless cheerleading

                smile

          3. recommend1 profile image71
            recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            HubPages model is one where authors own their content.  We are a service provider that operates under the dmca.  We won't take your content.(Paul)

            So - who owns the images that are uploaded to HP, or are they removed from the database when a hub is unpublished or removed by the author ?

            1. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              From the TOS:

              [ "Author Content": Any content, including without limitation questions, answers, forum posts, ratings, votes, and Hub comments, that Authors post on the Service other than on the Author’s Hub, and all photographs that Authors post on the Service (including on the Author’s Hub).

              HubPages does not claim ownership of Your Hub Content or Author Content.

              By posting Author Content on the Service, You grant HubPages a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to reproduce, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, modify, adapt and publish the Author Content on or in connection with the Service. You may remove Your Hub Content from the Service at your discretion. You may not remove your Author Content from the Service.]


              It looks to me like we own the photos but have granted HP an irrevocable right to do whatever they want with them.  We can never remove them from the database.

              1. recommend1 profile image71
                recommend1posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Your conclusion is also mine - they keep the rights to use it after we are gone or if they shut up shop and do something else.

                1. profile image0
                  PhenomWriterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  A Hubber named "Tanmoy Acharya" was really sarcastic and mean and.....
                  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/85444

                  recommend1   posted 3 weeks ago in reply to this
                  "You are a very naughty boy ! big_smile "

                  uthurbanposted 3 weeks ago in reply to this

                  "Here is another Sock Puppet in the guise of Panda..... Calling Evolution Guy a naughty boy..... ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!! Yuan is getting down....and the anti-dumping duty is going to be ON.... Be Alert!!"


                  ...Someone is saying that you are a sockpuppet of Evolution Guy. What's that recommend1?

                  1. profile image0
                    PhenomWriterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    We know who used to control Evolution Guy sockpuppet. How is it using you?

                  2. MelissaBarrett profile image61
                    MelissaBarrettposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Wait!  What?

                    No seriously, What?

                    Wait a minute, IDGAF. Nevermind.

                    1. profile image0
                      PhenomWriterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      Read what uthurbanposted is saying.

                      By the way-  IDGAF -What does the 'F' stand for in  IDGAF? Is that an internet-slang??

                2. wilderness profile image96
                  wildernessposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I doubt that they could use it off of HP, although perhaps HP could transfer the corporations rights to someone else.  They only have the right to use it on or within the service, which would seem to mean that they could not publish our photos on another site unless HP itself opens that site and it belongs to HP.

                3. WD Curry 111 profile image60
                  WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So what? You haven't said anything or done any thiing that doesn't belong in a bag of Black Cow around here, anyway. Go make some shabby products and send them to Walmart.

              2. WD Curry 111 profile image60
                WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Dang Bro! You rock! I'll have to visit more and keep my heart off my sleeve.

            2. WD Curry 111 profile image60
              WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Why are you worried? The only service you provide is lip service. If I want any crap out of you, I'll just squeeze your head.

      2. Eric Graudins profile image61
        Eric Graudinsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Keith,

        I believe you're doing the right thing - I did the same a couple of years ago, for much the same reason.

        I used to spend a lot of time helping people here, and taking part in the forums.

        I am still in contact with many people here, who let me know what is happening, as I have an academic interest in what is unfolding here.

        The writers here are being moulded and shaped into providing free promotional content on the topics that will generate the most profit for hubpages.
        And all the while hubpages is taking more and more control over any earnings that may eventuate from their labours.

        Writers Community? I think not.
        More like a modern day serfdom.

        cheers,
        Eric G.

      3. 2uesday profile image87
        2uesdayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry you are going Keith and I hope all goes well for you where ever else you write. 

        Hope I did not take this thread in a different direction and my apologies to you if I did.

      4. Kurant82 profile image78
        Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        LOL AWESOME! Keith Tax you are my idol!

        1. Kurant82 profile image78
          Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Deleted

          1. KeithTax profile image78
            KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I am LMFAO. You are making it hard for me to keep this attitude up.

            1. Kurant82 profile image78
              Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No problem Keith that is what I am here for. I started a forum similar to this one earlier in the week but for some reason the other hubbers taking part in the forum basically revolted against me, and began calling for my head for ever questioning hubpages.com ethics. :] True story.

              1. QuestionMaster profile image88
                QuestionMasterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                No Kurant, we were questioning your SEO skills and general assumptions about how to get traffic etc. I personally have not written on any of my HP accounts (with the exception of two) since Panda.

      5. WD Curry 111 profile image60
        WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        I need some help from you. Just now followed. Big Brother is watching, so I won't say more. Let's talk.

      6. jfay2011 profile image60
        jfay2011posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Keith, this isn't true.  Someone else exclaimed in one of my forums or somewhere else that hubpages was going to request that everyone take down their hubs or else it becomes their property and that it was going into new hands.  I reported this info to hubpages and they have told me that that will not happen.  They have no intentions of giving up their company to someone else and said that we have the rights to all of our stuff and they don't plan on taking our stuff and calling it theirs.

        1. WD Curry 111 profile image60
          WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks to Edgar Allen Poe there is common law copyright in the U.S. No one can use your art or writing without your written permission. You really don't even have to file a copyright, it just makes it easier prosecute with the documentation. Dem dang feriners kin rip ya off doe an de do it all de time.

    3. frogdropping profile image86
      frogdroppingposted 5 years ago

      Fare thee well Keith. Here's hoping you find a happier home for your articles. You've every right to feel concerned and upset, based upon what you have to say.

      Good luck in your furture online endeavours.

    4. Mikel G Roberts profile image88
      Mikel G Robertsposted 5 years ago

      I'm sorry to see you go Keith.

      I'm not very tech savvy... I don't make any money (haven't yet) but I do want to keep the copyrights to my work. I hope I can. So I may have to try something else as well.

      I wish you good luck!

    5. thisisoli profile image62
      thisisoliposted 5 years ago

      They are not making these changes to steal your content, they are doing it because they have to provide certian things to their advertisers. 

      I have seen a lot of people leave Hubpages, and if I start to lose more oney over the Amazon requirements I may have to join them.  I have been moderately successful here and pull in hundreds and over christmas thousands of dollars even after panda. But the basis behind the community does seem to be shifting.

      My only advice would be don't shoot yourself in the foot, if some articles are still working leave them, at least until you rebuild your portfolio elsewhere.

      1. ngureco profile image86
        ngurecoposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Cool advice.

    6. Brie Hoffman profile image79
      Brie Hoffmanposted 5 years ago

      Unfortunately I've really seen a decline in the site in the past year as well.

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
        Mark Ewbieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Me too.

        Curiously I have been here almost exactly a year.

        1. QuestionMaster profile image88
          QuestionMasterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Does this mean the decline coincides with your arrival, Mark? (Someone had to ask!)

          1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
            Mark Ewbieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Pretty much so.  I can't understand it.  Apparently the forums are worse, the content is worse and there are a load of idiots here.

            I picked the wrong time to join obviously.

            1. QuestionMaster profile image88
              QuestionMasterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              At least we have a scape goat though!

              (I'm sure there's a "scape panda" joke in there but I can't think of it.)

              1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
                Mark Ewbieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Me neither.  Wait for that Greek fella.

    7. sunforged profile image63
      sunforgedposted 5 years ago

      I couldnt imagine HP bothering to take content, but I could imagine a continued change in rules and policies that led to lots of abandoned content in which they profitted 100% on or kept the earnings made for failure to jump through a hoop or sign a paper or two.

      Lots of people created "set and forget" content ... even now with the forced epn change ... i bet there are hundreds of authors who will never see the emails and will have their epn id stop working .. I expect the HP id will now appear 100% of the time on that content?

      They wont have to take the content to earn disproportionately on it .. they can just keep changing the rules, lots of people wont be bothered to keep up

      1. 2uesday profile image87
        2uesdayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Sorry to ask this but where can I read about this as I do not know about it.

        1. sunforged profile image63
          sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          ^ case in point , a regular HP user who doesnt know there has been a massive change to the epn/hp relationship


          You should have received an email, otherwise there is an "official thread" in the forums - do a quick scan or forum search.

          1. 2uesday profile image87
            2uesdayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I thought it might be to do with the Amazon change but now after checking see it is to do with ebay. I am one of those who joined Hubpages was not able to sign up so I have never been able to use ebay on here. Guess that is why I got no email, when the 'new way for ebay' came out I decided I could not be bothered with it. Amazon might yet go the same way for me. I joined this site because it seemed simpler to understand and use than some others. As things get more complex, I can see a growing tide of confusion for people like me and newbies too.

          2. Barbara Kay profile image86
            Barbara Kayposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Deleted

            1. KeithTax profile image78
              KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              HP is starting to sound like Kontera everytime something was said. Very defensive. You know, when you say something and less than a year later do it anyway, no credibility remains.

              1. paradigmsearch profile image89
                paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I saw your removed post. I'm amazed you weren't banned.

                1. KeithTax profile image78
                  KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Something like flash fiction. Now you see, now you don't. I'll put it back if you want.

                  1. paradigmsearch profile image89
                    paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    So you removed it, not HP.

                    No, don't put it back. I like you and hope everything can be worked out.

                    1. Sally's Trove profile image98
                      Sally's Troveposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I saw something was missing in this thread, but didn't know Keith removed a post. No reason for him to be banned. He didn't flame or, well, incinerate, either.

                      His leaving HP is HP's loss.

    8. BobbiRant profile image61
      BobbiRantposted 5 years ago

      I can relate to this, yet I HAVE noticed that the 100 hubbers, some anyway, can have unrelated Amazon, namely their own books posted on a hub, related to the hub or not. This place and its rules are screwy anymore.  I guess the 'rules' only pertain to some people here.  Popularity contest and I am not impressed with HP anymore.

      1. Kurant82 profile image78
        Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Very good point. Also when you bring up your personal reasons for not agreeing with hubpages about certain policies or about the way some of their services actual pan out people tend to freak out, have an annuerism, or both. Following this you get attackd for voicing your opinion by an angry mob of hubbers. Whats up with that, freedom of speech folks. But this is just my opinion. Please dont freak out on me....

        1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
          Mark Ewbieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I do have a pic of an angry mob of Hubbers...

          http://s4.hubimg.com/u/5781295_f248.jpg

          1. Kurant82 profile image78
            Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Mark Ewbie props to you :] that was an awesomly hilarious reply :]. I like the picture by the way.

          2. Brie Hoffman profile image79
            Brie Hoffmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I wish I lived near you Mark, you would be great fun to have around!

            1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
              Mark Ewbieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Lol Brie, I can assure you that the fun element wears off fairly quickly!

              1. Brie Hoffman profile image79
                Brie Hoffmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Aw well, lucky for you I like the curmudgeonly types as well.

                1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
                  Mark Ewbieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm going to print that picture on a T-shirt and wander round saying "look girls - I'm a writer".

                  Might work.

                  1. Greek One profile image78
                    Greek Oneposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    http://rlv.zcache.com/writing_is_sexy_tshirt-p2351957393638833143s19_125.jpg

                    1. Mark Ewbie profile image83
                      Mark Ewbieposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      She carries it off better than I would.

                    2. KeithTax profile image78
                      KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                      I want to write like that.

                  2. Brie Hoffman profile image79
                    Brie Hoffmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Good luck with that!

                  3. Kurant82 profile image78
                    Kurant82posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    LMAO! You as well are my idol :]

            2. KeithTax profile image78
              KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I think everyone on this thread would be fun to have around, except for the guy with the blue screen. My be a TOS violation somewhere in there.

    9. Time Spiral profile image93
      Time Spiralposted 5 years ago

      Is it really a surprise that HP makes a disproportionate amount compared to the talent? I mean ... this is pretty obvious from the very beginning.

      It's pretty straight forward. You do the work - all of it - and you may get pennies on the view.

      I'm still enjoying it though, so hopefully your dire prediction does not come to pass.

    10. KeithTax profile image78
      KeithTaxposted 5 years ago

      Thank you for all the kind words and emails. Like I said you guys (and gals) are the best.

      Pardon me for coming off as a jerk, but I am still pissed off. Remember a few days ago when I said I had an online stalker? Well, the hub in question is one of two hubs the stalker used to rapid-fire me. As soon as he stopped the online assault, my hub got unpublished.

      That is how HP protects your hard work.

    11. edmob1 profile image59
      edmob1posted 5 years ago

      I am very sorry to see you go Kieth.Although I have only recently found your work I thought here's the man to help me when I write about money.

    12. Jason Menayan profile image60
      Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago

      KeithTax: I hope you reconsider, but I hope you also understand that we apply the same rules to all flagged Hubs, no matter who the author is. Your Free Coke Rewards Hub was flagged and moderated because it had links to a Hub about sleep, a site about filing 1040 returns, and other links unrelated to the Hub's topic. If you remove those links, you should be fine. Cross-promoting Hubs or other sites you own/operate is fine as long as it's done within the scope of our rules, which admittedly have become tougher in the post-Panda world.

      And as for the question about us considering the change to our payment models for eBay and Amazon: I answered that truthfully. We were not considering changing that when I made that post. All I can say is that circumstances can change with respect to laws and our ad partners' policies, and we have to adapt. I believe the changes are, on the whole, positive for Hubbers, but I can understand some Hubbers not feeling that way for themselves, or having an interest in not portraying it that way.

      1. KeithTax profile image78
        KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        So I am no longer related to my other hubs? Really? Does that mean an RSS feed provided by HP listing my latest hubs will cause my hub to be unpublished unless all RSS feed hubs are on the same topic?

        1. relache profile image86
          relacheposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I would speculate that RSS feeds of your own Hubs are more likely to be viewed as duplicate content, although unrelated links is still a strong potential.

          1. KeithTax profile image78
            KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            So HP breaks thier own rules? They make it up as they go? So if you use the RSS capsule provided by HP you are breaking HP TOS. Ahhhh, yeah.

            1. Jason Menayan profile image60
              Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              The RSS Capsule is really for putting in related RSS feeds from other sources. However, the links they pull in must be related to the Hub's topic, so you have to choose carefully.

              If you really want to use the RSS Capsule to link to other related Hubs, you can create an RSS feed from one of your tag pages. You can use the format:

              http: //hubpages.com/author/[username]/[tag]/hot?rss

              We don't really encourage this, since it does pull in unoriginal content into your Hub. It's probably better to link to your related Hubs directly in the Hub.

              1. KeithTax profile image78
                KeithTaxposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                That's bullshit, Jason, and you know it. The only reason my hub was flagged was because an online stalker flagged it.

                Maybe we should all go around and flag every hub we find with unrelated links as you outlined. We should start with the list of top hubs provided by HP in the upper left hand corner. That should thin out the competition a bit since over half have more agregious violations than anything I ever wrote.

                1. Marisa Wright profile image93
                  Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Keith, I know you're angry but to be fair, I have to point out what I'm sure you know:  it doesn't matter how many times your Hub is flagged by a stalker, it's still up to a HubPages staff member to moderate it and decide if it breaks the rules.

                  And even if you did flag every Hub with unrelated links, all the Hubber has to do is remove the offending RSS feed, resubmit it, and it will be republished - so it's not going to thin out the competition in any way.

                2. Jason Menayan profile image60
                  Jason Menayanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Our moderation team does respond to flags. However, if there are no violations, there is no moderation.

                  If you do see Hubs that violate our rules, feel free to flag them and our moderation will have a look and act if appropriate.

                  1. profile image0
                    PhenomWriterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I use this website for creativity purposes; I do not have any intention to make a few dollars. However, the way you have spoke to Jason here, did catch my eye, and I must say a few words at your honor.

                    "That's bullshit, Jason, and you know it."   -Only a civilized and mature person can speak that way, to someone who is trying to give objective answers. Jason Menayan is not a sockpuppet who will escape if you provide him a rational argument; which, you are providing plenty...

                    A website runs on its 'terms and conditions'; if you don't like it - go away. If you think they are unjust, seek that with legal procedures.

                    One request- If you ever find another website, like HubPages, then do send me an email; I will immediately join that with you. Hope you will be able to send that mail within a few years.

              2. Marisa Wright profile image93
                Marisa Wrightposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Keith, where were you when all the changes happened post-Panda?

                The rules about RSS feeds were changed all that time ago, and as a result large numbers of Hubbers had their Hubs unpublished for using "latest" or "best" feeds.  You've been lucky your Hubs escaped for so many months when so many of us were slugged immediately post-Panda!

                If you look at the FAQ and Learning Centre now, they clearly say you may use the RSS feed capsule to list related links only - so if you're going to list your own Hubs, you must use a tag to restrict them to related Hubs.

                I'm not surprised you're not aware of it though - this is just one of several rules that changed post-Panda which were never announced officially until long after people's Hubs had already been unpublished.  HP's excuse was that those rules weren't "changed", they were only "tightened".  As a tax man, who understands the role interpretation plays in rules, I don't have to explain why that's a stupid excuse.

          2. IzzyM profile image86
            IzzyMposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            That's been the rules for a while now Keith. All links have to relate to the topic.

        2. Brie Hoffman profile image79
          Brie Hoffmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          You know Jason, it wouldn't be so bad if it didn't take a whole day and sometimes longer for the hub to be republished and if HP would be more specific when they do unpublish the hubs.  Also, I have fixed one area of a hub just to have HP bring up another area which causes an even longer delay.   I have been extremely frustrated by the process and this is something HP can fix.   It makes us think that HP doesn't give a damn.

          1. profile image0
            bolt1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Brie,
            I'm not sure if you remember my telling you that I posted a reply on one of your hubs and it never showed up.....and now I read this I'm not here as much however I just posted a hub about my granddaughter and wonder if it even posted? thanks for the info....

            1. WD Curry 111 profile image60
              WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              It's in there. I have had some good times in Delaware.

            2. Brie Hoffman profile image79
              Brie Hoffmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Don't worry bolt, I'm not going anywhere soon..just venting is all.

              1. profile image0
                bolt1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It would be HP's loss anyway you look at it , is how I see it......! I understand
                thanks.

                1. Brie Hoffman profile image79
                  Brie Hoffmanposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  You're a sweetheart!  smile

        3. Sally's Trove profile image98
          Sally's Troveposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Understanding that things change and that today's policies may become yesterday's, it is understandable that your comment, Jason, taken in relation to Paul's and the subsequent change in payment models, may not engender trust.

      2. aware profile image71
        awareposted 5 years ago

        the ambiguously , vague  duo .
        hubpages staff.

      3. aware profile image71
        awareposted 5 years ago

        lol  .  that's  definitive.

      4. paradigmsearch profile image89
        paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

        The natives are definitely restless today...

      5. aware profile image71
        awareposted 5 years ago

        Mr Menayan . Some of us need  publish compliance help. Yanking  peoples stuff down and just saying fix it! Instead of taking them aside vie  notifications and helping them specifically  comply . IS not the way  to treat  fledgling writers .
        ray

      6. Greek One profile image78
        Greek Oneposted 5 years ago

        I agree 100% with you stance, Keith!!!!!



        by the way....



        If you have do leave, can have your Hubs?  I think it would be poetic justice for someone who has never paid taxes to be able to earn money from tax hubs

        1. QuestionMaster profile image88
          QuestionMasterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          big_smile

      7. Jason Marovich profile image87
        Jason Marovichposted 5 years ago

        I wrote a hub about knee-jerk reactions to pulling hubs off HP.  Hopefully, you've been through the editors and social climbing required to get any views on the other sites, or pull one off and see how it works out 'over there' before pulling them all off HP.

        1. Dorsi profile image92
          Dorsiposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Yes I agree. I was here when some hubbers left after the Panda fiasco - but I am glad I did not leave because now my hubs are doing better then ever. You will be missed Keith if you do leave..perhaps we can bend your arm a little to stay? Just look at all the great camaraderie here that you will miss....

          1. viryabo profile image87
            viryaboposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            +1
            Keith, many things do annoy us tremendously in this life but with time, the anger wears off.

            You can leave your hubs and start/continue to work on other things elsewhere. Since they earn you some money, why dry up that "well" for uncertainty.

            Id really hate to see you remove your work.

      8. PaulGoodman67 profile image90
        PaulGoodman67posted 5 years ago

        "A lot of very good hubbers picked up and left Hubpages"

        True, but a lot of very good hubbers (more?) also said that they were going to leave and then didn't, as far as I can make out! 

        I don't think anyone would like to see you go, but it's your choice at the end of the day, Keith.  ;-)

        1. Kangaroo_Jase profile image83
          Kangaroo_Jaseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Paul,
          Those Hubbers have left the site - by pulling their hubs and moving them elsewhere, yet they remain (active) in the forums here.

          1. PaulGoodman67 profile image90
            PaulGoodman67posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I can't remember who it was who wrote an amusing hub on how hubbers often have a different definition of "leaving HubPages" to what most non-hubbers might have.

            If someone leaves most of their hubs up, doesn't close their account, continue to write new hubs, and continues to write in the forums etc.  I don't think you can blame others such as me for seeing that as *not* leaving HubPages!  ;-)

      9. paradigmsearch profile image89
        paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

        http://alliedow.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/burning-bridge.jpg
        Usually not a good idea... big_smile

        1. sunforged profile image63
          sunforgedposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          tis preferable to this:


          http://moralcompass.blog.sbc.edu/files/2010/10/LESSING_ART_10310483157-copy.jpg

          1. paradigmsearch profile image89
            paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Tough town, the internet...

            Life's been picking on me so much lately, that I'm starting to become immune to it. lol

          2. Lisa HW profile image82
            Lisa HWposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol    lol   Great picture and post (although I do think there's just a hint of hyperbole going on...   )  .

        2. Reality Bytes profile image94
          Reality Bytesposted 5 years ago

          I just saw the post.  hmmm?

        3. Kangaroo_Jase profile image83
          Kangaroo_Jaseposted 5 years ago

          Keith,

          I would strongly recommend you stay on HubPages, especially if your Hubs are doing well traffic wise and its earning a good income for you. It is difficult anywhere on the internet to build your 'brand' as a writer or provider of information.

          Obviously if you decide to leave and take your work elsewhere I wish you the very best of luck and hope traffic returns swiftly for your work.

          Due to this and any other content creation site you work with, but do not own, one has to abide by terms of service.

          Times change, terms of service can also change and especially over the last 12 months Panda has scared the shit out of many people and and those who use many sites.

          It seems that HubPages attempts to make clear when changes do happen to the ToS, yet that also seems defined by other peoples point of view depending on who is asked.

          People are human and make mistakes, they can also make mistakes often.

          This is why we have the forums. To try and make things clearer.

          May I ask Keith that you walk away from HubPages for a day or two, come back and once your fire has cooled a little see what happens on your return.

          If you finally do decide to pack up and go I wish you much luck in your future endeavors.

        4. jimmythejock profile image83
          jimmythejockposted 5 years ago

          For someone who says he is leaving, you are taking your time already, Just go take your Hubs elsewhere I dont think it will be a big loss to Hubpages Keith.
          put the soother back in your mouth and stop spitting it out with all of the other drivel.
          I have had many a hub Flagged and guess what I did about it, I simply changed the offending parts and got on with my day.
          take care.....jimmy

          1. profile image0
            bolt1951posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Interesting point of view this just happened to me and I was fuming to say the least, but after reading your comment I will attempt to be more patient......Attempt  is the magic word for now.....Thanks jimmy.

        5. wanzulfikri profile image69
          wanzulfikriposted 5 years ago

          Woah! I read all of the post. With bridge on fire, I think that this discussion is serious. I'm sorry for you, Keith. I hope you can resolve your problems with the Hubpages staff

          1. WD Curry 111 profile image60
            WD Curry 111posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Welcome to American office politics. Do you have room over there for me?

        6. paradigmsearch profile image89
          paradigmsearchposted 5 years ago

          Random thought. It is past...

          1. PaulGoodman67 profile image90
            PaulGoodman67posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            It was a good random thought though!  :-)

        7. Joy56 profile image61
          Joy56posted 5 years ago

          It has been a bad year, but it will get better, i think.....

        8. relache profile image86
          relacheposted 5 years ago

          It's been six days and Keith not only is still here, but he's got the same number of Hubs as when this thread was first started.

          This departure is taking even longer than all those good-byes at the end of LOTR: The Return Of The King....

          1. TheMagician profile image93
            TheMagicianposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol!

          2. profile image0
            Baileybearposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I noticed that many who said they were leaving months ago are still here

            1. profile image71
              logic,commonsenseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              or they left for a day or two and came back.  I think most just want people to beg them not to go.

              1. profile image0
                kimberlyslyricsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Hi logic

                I totally agree.

          3. profile image0
            kimberlyslyricsposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            lol

         
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