Paul Edmondson posted 2 days ago
"Just a heads up that we are still working on the questions and should post them tomorrow."
-He did not post any answers. How much more will hubpages run? .....you been splashing with the duck! HP don't understand - they have pissed me off, plus a lot of others, its really not good business to have pissed off customers, particularly ones that know SEO if you know what I mean!
I hope you move to Wizzely soon..and when you do, I hope further that you close all four profiles here on HP...Wizzley's loss will be our gain...:)TR
They have played with the TOS, changed the look a bit, but same ole rhetoric and have answered ZIP
Well Linda, they will never give any proper answer, coz they have none. They will always play this game with you. It was meant to manipulate millions of customers, not to provide clear explanations of what's happening underneath.
My advice- Just delete the last 2 hubs, and never return here. Sometimes, you can still come here with a casual identity just to goad the folks in the forums.
Maybe, you and paul can agree to make hubs a theosophical-chat website!
Paul said he "should" have had them up yesterday, not that they would be. Relax... I'm sure they'll be up soon.
He did not make any announcements. It's actually easy to play with people; they work nights and days to create delicate hubs so hubpages may earn money, and when they ask legitimate questions, erm, what happens? Many good writers left hubpages, for what?
This is a kind of digital feudalism that hubpages is playing, playing cunningly with what thousands of people 'unconsciously' offering them; sorry if that wasn't wrong.
I would rather the HubPage team took their time and then clarified the T.O.S. than rushed through the information and made it even more difficult to understand.
Look, I get impatient, too. That's human nature. I'm impatient because I think this Amazon change will be very good for me, so I'd like to see it up and running.
But, I also absolutely understand that some people see a downside. I assume that HP is hesitating because they want to satisfy as many people as they possibly can, so I'll just cool my jets and wait.
To reach the 8.5% top tier with Amazon, you have to sell 3,131 products per month (or more than 100 per day). So this is an absurdly good deal for everyone.
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/gp … ation.html
Marina's working on the FAQ entries and hopefully they should be up today. Thank you for your patience.
OK. I'm willing to wait another 30 seconds or so, but after that, THAT'S IT!
Sigh. I'm sure that no matter what you do or how you explain it, we're going to have people ranting and complaining. I can certainly understand how someone with a lot of other sites might need the activity they have here to keep the tier they have gained at their other sites, so certainly maybe SOMEBODY might not like this.
But 100 sales a day? I can't even imagine what traffic volume you'd need for that. I'm sure some might have it, but I never would and I'm sure that most of the squawkers never could reach that either.
Well said, PCU, I myself would be surprised if some of the people complaining on here actually get 100 sales in an entire year.
I too look forward to the new system. I understand that there are some hubbers on here with genuine cause for concern. But there are also some irrational ranters who seem to have an entirely separate agenda which involves conspiracy theories and all sorts of stuff.
Agree. I'm just waiting for their plans on payment mode and inactivity period. In any case, I don't mind waiting for better changes.
Look at squidoo, they don't even give much to forums. It's just a place for writers to communicate, and to write better. And here at hubs, it's made for you to timepass with spammers! What does this galvanizer forum-section do to make hubpages a better place for writing?
In squidoo, if you even SMELL spammy, you are out. They have one guy just for that. And it takes months, for hubpages, to really go dirty to spammers, because who knows, they may give them hubs!!
This hubpages shows future longevity, as it depends more to good principles than practices. Erm ... what about the principles?
2uesday: Exactly, the TOS is nothing more than same information with a new format, and again, no real answers.
Squidoo Lensmasters donate half of their money, that they generate through that website, to charitable causes. Sure, that's a drop to the desert, but it's a good effort. It must not be emulated anyway. We get 500$ hubpatron ...
In hubpages, we get a similar environment, which is, being direct to the policy of the website: ask Seth where his website lacks clarification- he will show one. If he can not, he will tell you to file a case, and he will pay you attorney charges if you win (read Squidoo TOS). They are indeed very frank. They do not keep you in the middle. Stay or leave. When did hubpages show that confidence?? If hubbers leave, this website will turn bankrupt. The result? ...
hubs is showing good principles? Where? When they take ...
People's money come cheap.
Had hubpages had guts!
It does not matter whether somebody even has an Amazon account or not, or if those that do make 1 sale a year, or 1000 sales a year BOTTOM LINE: We deserve honest and straight answers about the new system. Those who just accept this at face valuie, I will sell you the Brooklyn bridge.
Get it right Izzy - Threatened to Leave .
Then deleted all Hubs EXCEPT ONE,
and wouldnt you know
LAST NIGHT PUBLISHED A NEW HUB.
Just wondering what sort of activity that is?
Attention getter? Maybe, but what concerns me is, is that if you read any negative thread, where the complaints are abundant .. guess who you will find posting there!
Fair enough. The old FAQ left some confusion. I think the present one answers all that.
Sounds to me like you have yourself all worked up over nothing.
Izzy: NOYB what I do or anybody does. I have moved all of my hubs. I have republished 19 and earned more from them WITHOUT ADSENSE OR AMAZON since Nov 27 than I did here with 27 hubs beginniing in August, simply from posting them, not counting the residual. Then 10 bucks a pop for every referral. I have 2 now by the way. I also get paid EVERY M!!ONTH, not having a minimum to collect earnings. HAHAHAHA
Just a note that the FAQ entry has been updated:
once you transition to the Amazon Program as part of the HubPages Earnings Program, you will no longer be able to switch back to your own Amazon Associates ID.
You do not currently have to change - did you read the FAQ? It seems that whatever HP do to try and accommodate your concerns you'll simply pick up the negative...
....on hubpages. Capsules only. You can use your personal affiliate id wherever else you like... I encourage you to do such... at your earliest possible convenience.
One one site alone, I have 97 articles, and only 2 here. so what does that tell you
Cannot say that I am interested, as it is none of my business.
That maybe you should be spending more time in that community?
Another TOS is that you CANNOT USE THE AMAZON ID FROM THE PROGRAM ANYWHERE BUT HERE. You cannot use it on your personal sites or blogs.
Yes that's right, you can't use the id from HP amazon program anywhere else... I also can't use my Sears credit card at J.C. Penny... Damn the tyrants...
But you can use other ID's on Amazon...you can create as many as you wish.
That's because you do not have a legal agreement with Amazon. There's nothing stopping you signing up for an Amazon ID or CONTINUING to use your existing ID on Hubpages - or did you simply ignore the bit where it's not mandatory at the moment?
If do not participate, whoopee you get to use personal Amazon ID in content as text links. Whooppeee
So basically, join the HP program or as Amazon affiliilte, hands will be tied.
So, that has nothing to do with it being used as a text link. You are allowed 2 text links. Check TOS about links that take you to same site. So, if your idea is 2 links in one hub for one personal amazon id, and another 2 under a dffereent Id in same hub, forget it.
I was planning on using the nice pretty amazon capsules provide by HP, getting the 8.5 percent tier and using my own affiliate I.D. elsewhere... But if you want to put your own links in that are less effective at at a lower tier... have at it.
Simey: No according to the new TOS once it goes into effect. This is the problem, you can interpret the tos multiple ways. Nothing is clear, nor has it been made clear even though promises to do so have been nothing but promises.
It's clear in the FAQ - and as long as the FAQ exists then they can be held accountable.
While I do understand your frustration and the implications of the TOS - the fact they have come out with the FAQ makes a huge difference - if they were to break what they say in the FAQ they lose a lot more users....
Okay, HP is only responsible for what it writes in it's TOS and FAQ. It is not responsible for your ability to understand it.
I understood it perfectly well, and it answered any questions that I had... What is it, exactly, that you are having difficulty comprehending?
Can I switch back to my personal Amazon Associates ID after signing up for the Amazon Program under the HubPages Earnings Program?
Once you commence your participation in the Amazon Program under the HubPages Earnings Program, you will no longer be able to link your own Amazon Associates ID to your HubPages account.
Correct - but if you're against the new program why would you switch to it?
I guess you want flexibility and would want to compare earnings - but at least they haven't made the switch mandatory - so you simply opt out.....
...you've been pro-active and found a better place to earn, so I am happy for you....
YES! That is exactly what it says. Once you join the HP amazon system you cannot switch back. Thank God. You got that one.
Notice THE WORD OUTSIDE
Can I have a separate Amazon Associates account outside of HubPages?
Yes. If you have a personal Amazon Associates Program ID, you may use that on other sites (per your agreement with Amazon to do so). The Amazon Program under the HubPages Earnings Program only covers the HubPages site.
May I use a HubPages-assigned Amazon ID outside of HubPages?
No. The ID that HubPages assigns to your HubPages Earnings Program account is authorized for use only on HubPages. You are not permitted to use it off of HubPages or to provide it to others as downstream affiliates of you.
I am already enrolled in the HubPages Earnings Program. I am already part of the Amazon Associates Program via my own affiliate code
•Your personal Amazon Associates ID will continue to work. You can switch now to participate under HubPages and take advantage of the high commission tier provided by HubPages. However, once you transition to the Amazon Program as part of the HubPages Earnings Program, you will no longer be able to switch back to your own Amazon Associates ID.
•To enable the new set-up, you will need to log-in to your HubPages Earnings Program account. Under “Settings” you will see an option for the Amazon Program. There will be a short registration process for you to do. HubPages will take care of all the back-end work to make sure that Amazon capsules you have already published transition correctly with no additional work by you. Once everything is in place, your earnings will be tracked and paid to you by HubPages (not Amazon).
So if you don't do anything - nothing changes for you - I don't see the problem? You continue to be able to use your current Amazon ID....
Yes, that's pretty clear as well. Linda, I'm seriously not seeing the issue here. You seem to be quoting the FAQ, but I think everyone in here has already read... Once again, please tell us what your issue is.
So, what does this little tid bit mean. I see HP can change their mind about hubbers using personal amazon text links and switch them over to HP program
Can I run link units with my own Amazon ID on HubPages?
At launch of the Amazon Program, HubPages-issued Amazon Program IDs apply specifically to Amazon capsules, not to text links. So you may continue to run link units with your own ID. To the extent there is a change required, we would update as many of the existing links as possible in an automated manner to minimize the manual editing.
It means if they decide to remove the ability to use manual links, that they will update them automatically so that you don't have to edit them.
They are covering the bases just in case they change in the future - I'm sure that eventually it will become mandatory, but for now they are allowing existing Amazon IDs to be used. I would guess that they'll analize the numbers to see how many people do not switch and if it's a very very small minority then things will become mandatory - if there's a significant amount of users who retain their own IDs then they probably will not change.
You can't blame them for being flexible and leaving their options open...
Linda Smith: at the end of the day they are a business and they must do what is best for their business. They've listened to the community and changed the way the amazon program will work - they have also left the option to change should they need to - that's good business sense - and while it may piss you off that there is scope for them to 'screw' you I'd be concerned if they didn't make their business model the priority...
...for now, at least give them credit for changing the way the system works - they've answered most of your concerns and for now nothing changes for you....if they begin to change things in the future then you are fully entitled to be angry - at this time I'd say you should be satisfied with getting what you want..
8 percent commission is not posted in TOS. Earnings are based on hub activity. Nothing clear as to what earning percentage is.
Once program goes into effect, only way to use Amazon capsules is if you are part of HP program. Hubbers cannot use capsules under personal Amazon account.
There is nothing, nothing, and nothing the says for every sale from your hub the commission is a flat 1 percent, 2 percent, 5 percent, 8 percent. What is does indicate is if hub gets 100 views and one sale, the commission will be x percent, if another hub gets one sale, same amount of sale as first hub, but the second hub has 500 view, then the percentage of sale will be different. There is no FLAT PERCENTAGE ON SALES ACROSS THE BOARD. So if you sell a 1000 dollar item, with one view, you would get 1 percent, but if the views were 500 and 1 sale for same 1000 item, commission could be different. Nobody has clarified this at all.
It would be really great if you could link me to that particular piece of information Linda...
Yes they have:
"As the ecosystem currently stands, the vast majority of HubPages authors will earn in the same manner you do now. Only faster, due to HubPages' overall Amazon transaction volume. There may be a minority group of authors for whom conditions require us to implement an alternate formula (whether CPC or other formula). For those impacted authors, as conditions allow we will do our best to provide advance notice of changes."
Of course you will ask what 'vast majority' means.....
'same manner' means the way it currently works with Amazon - sell 3301 items you get 8.5% - of course HP aggrigates all sales - so we all will get 8.5%...excluding the 'minority'...
That is my point. It says nothing SPECIFIC ABOUT EARNINGS, A FLAT PERCENTAGE, ETC, ETC ETC.
Jason: Where are you getting your informaton from. That is not on the link you gave. There are a lot of questions that are still up in the air to boot. There is nothng concrete about earnings.
Well until I get some straight answers, HP can have my left overs I don't want to use elsewhere which is slim to none.
What Amazon pays to affiliates has nothing to do with what HP is going to do or how they do it.
Sigh. Yes, it does.
You really need to chill :-)
I don't think you're reading the faq well. You have your mind set and you're clearly misreading the information.
Amazon has a system based on volume. Accounts that get over that huge number of sales get 8.5% commission.
During a hubber's share of views, that hubber will get the full commission given to their HP-assigned id, which means that hubber will get the amazing 8.5% that would otherwise be almost unattainable for most hubbers.
It has ALL to do with Amazon's pay structure.
Sale happens -> amazon gives commission of 8.5%
If id was during HP's share (40%), HP keeps the commission
If id was during hubber's share (60%), hubber keeps the commission
This is stated multiple times, just not in such simple terms, throughout the FAQ. Calm down, reread, take your TIME, read it again, think carefully, and you might just understand what everyone has been saying all along.
The only time this may not happen is for hubbers where Amazon's policies force hubpages to change the payment structure, but the hubber will get notification should this happen and it would only be a rare occurrence.
You have until early 2012 to decide as you are not forced to switch until then. Until the mandatory switch happens, the amazon capsules will use your old id's just as they did before. However, unless you usually get 8.5% commission through amazon - which I doubt - I don't see why you wouldn't want this!
To prevent abuse, however, this special id will only be acceptable on HP. Any hubber that wishes to earn from amazon elsewhere will have to use their own id (or another company's id that has a similar program, such as squidoo).
The FAQ fully addresses my concerns, but is apparently not quite accurate on how somebody switches to the HubPages system. At least, I can't see any way to actually do it.
Could we have a walk-through there, please?
You can't yet, I was checking myself earlier.
It's not available yet. If you read through, I believe it says that it will be available early December now or something along those lines (sorry, I skimmed). When it's available, I am guessing it will be under your earnings tab and you'll turn it on the same way you opt into the ebay or hubads program.
I could care less. HP nor Amazon are the only game in town. I work with other programs that pay me 12 percent, others pay less, others pay more. I have more than one egg, and more than one basket.
" I could care less"...so obviously you care a bit.
Yes...Factoidz is so much more trustworthy than HubPages
I think I can safely say that everyone here has more than one egg, many have more than one basket...
What does that have to do with anything? You were talking about how the FAQ was unclear, so we're trying to clear it up. Our only concern is that you understand the new program, whether you like it or what you decide to do about it afterwards is utterly none of our business.
Whether there are other sites or other better-paying affiliates is irrelevant anyway - they existed before this change and will exist after. There is no contract with HP and thus no need for people to complain about changes. Don't like it, you can leave, you can start using multiple baskets, you can stay and adapt, you can throw a pizza party and decide to give up online article writing altogether and start work towards an e-book,.
However you decide is up to you; we just don't want you to make that decision before you fully understand what the changes are.
Seems to me that you have a major hair across your butt and are trying to convince the rest of us that HP is an awful place to be.
We aren't buying it.
Yes, there is sort of a "cheese stands alone" thing happening... I mean I'm okay with being the only person with a different opinion... but at some point during those times I usually stop, look around, and go "well hell, it might be me".
I am so glad that people are so involved with what I am doing, where I am doing it etc.
Linda, we don't want to be.
Honestly you have gone on and one like a stuck record.
if you want to stay, stay, you want to post elsewhere, fine. You want to have some hubs here and post elsewhere. Fine.
News flash: we don't actually care.
So far from the questions you've brought up, both the FAQ and members here have answered them. So if your questions still haven't been answered, maybe we just don't see what it is you want to know.
Perhaps you should restate the questions, maybe more clearly and in a nice list format, so staff and fellow members can better understand what exactly you think is missing and can work to help answer them in a calm and organized manner?
It is worth considering that with so many eggs in different baskets, it might be wise to spend some time attending to them instead of scratching around the nest you are probably leaving.
Anything that doesn't ask questions, is appreciated by ...
ok so what i've gathered so far from this thread is...
1.) the opt-in switch over is not 'live' yet so wait a a few days then check in your account settings when it ultimately does go ' live'
2.) i'm under the impression that w/ my low sales or (none actually) that I was making 4 percent commision 100 percent of the time and when this goes ' live' I will be making the HP's aggregated 8.5 percent commision but only 60 percent of the time. ( as per the 60/40 share ratio )
so basically Amazon capsule sales are no longer 100 percent ours but we gain the full 8.5 commission in replacement
... does that sound correct or am I reading too much into what this thread is saying ?
uuuuum... i was under the impression that previous Amazon code was my own.. so 100 percent of the time... only AdSense code was switching 60/40
Therefore for Hubpages to get paid via Amazon ,as well as a share of AdSense, they would have to do as described above and give out new HP earnings/Amazon code that 'switches' also. This would in effect take everyones' Amazon earnings by 40 percent so to make up for helping them get their fair share of Amazon commisions they are offering the top tier commision to everyone on their 60/40 split( well, exccept a few)
This is purely my opinion and speculation, though !
I don't mind splitting AdSense code 60/40 ( that's how it's always been)but I think everyone should demand a 70/30 or 80/20 split on the Amazon code , since they were never actually taking any before. Although that would probably be tough to implement seperatly and independantly of one another( speaking of AdSense and Amazon code switching independantly of one another)
are you sure about that?.. I don't remeber reading anywhere where they also split Amazon code with Hubbers... i thought I remember quite awhile ago that using Amazon or Ebay was only to the benefit of the Hubber... i'm probably wrong here, but could you post a link as a source where it says my Amazon is shared as well as my AdSense code... just for my own personal clarity on the issue... Thanks !
P.s. are ebay capsules and code split 60/40 with HubPages as well?
http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/affi … n-hubpages
This link is for the new amazon program, not the old one, but the old one that we are still on now had the same ting - we split impressions with HP. Anything earned on our impression is ours, anything earned on HP's impression is theirs.
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