This might be my last forum post because I am tired. I can't be wasting my time beating a dead horse.
HP is a business and they need to start treating their business more seriously. They need a task force to sit and brain storm about how to keep spammers out in the first place.
I know that I have made 'stupid' suggestions before and I know that there are those on their high horses that will say that this is not important. I also know there are those whose only concern for this site is collecting a pay check at the end of the month and to hell with everything else.
There are those who have been here for 4 or 5 years who believe they know everything and will probably come in and shoot down this forum. I beg of you, instead of criticizing me come up with suggestions that will help the site.
Here is an example of an article site: Bright Hub requires submission of an article that will be reviewed before its published. This process delays the registration process so if your article is rejected you cannot sign up. I AM NOT SUGGESTING THE EXACT SAME THING SO DON'T SHOOT ME DOWN.
I, however suggest, that:
(1) An article of 300 words or more be submitted upon registration
(2) If they cannot submit an article they can still sign up and they will be able to read articles, vote, ask questions but will not be able to participate in the forums until an article is submitted
(3) A probation period before they can enter the forums (general probation) - This can be waved if their account shows positive signs of activity such as comments, reading hubs, asking appropriate questions and feedback to their hub(s)
HP has to make a decision whether or not spam means anything to them. If someone has a better idea. Place it here. I will elaborate on my suggestions when someone replies, don't want this to be too long.
They already did. Numerous, almost identical spammy forum posts by a brand new Hubber with no published hubs could easily be prevented. It has been like this for years. It just isn't a priority, compared with making it easy and attractive to sign up for new accounts. If you ignore the spam posts, however, you will see that they will be flagged by other users and disappear.
These are great ideas Cardisa, all of which have been discussed before in-depth on these forums.
At the end of the day though, Hubpages are proud of being an 'open publishing platform' and they have said they have no intention of changing things that would lose them this description.
@WE, I know, I am just trying one last time. I figured that many people might say it was not important and my suggestions were not meant to offend any one. I will read the other posts to see what they have to say.
@Hi IzzyM, well maybe HP is willing to sacrifice the spamming for more members, but if those member are spammers, I don't see the advantage. They wont make any money and they just infect the site.
Cardisa, I wish you luck - but I think some of us "old hands" are just cynical about the prospect of HP doing anything about it. Good suggestions have already been made, several times.
HubPages has often said they don't want to hold up the publication of a Hubber's first Hub, because in these days of instant gratification, having to wait would lose them some writers. So that's not going to change.
I've suggested they change the way they moderate. Right now, Hubs go into the moderation queue in strict order they're discovered, old and new lumped in together. I've suggested they assign one moderator, full-time, to checking the "latest Hubs" feed. Yes, it takes one moderator out of the main queue, but just think how much work it would save later - if spammers' Hubs were being deleted quickly, they'd give up sooner, for one thing.
Others have pointed out that there is a way of preventing automated posting of Hubs, which other sites use but HubPages doesn't. I don't know how it works technically myself.
As for the forums, I'm a member of many forums where your privileges are restricted when you first join. For instance, you can't start a new thread until you've posted a few replies, or you can't post a link anywhere. They're all busy, successful forums so HubPages can't argue that restrictions hurt. However HP's forum does apparently use an unusual platform and maybe it's just too basic to allow any sophisticated controls.
Thanks Marisa, at least I had to try. Maybe they could upgrade the forum in a way that won't allow new posts and links until the hubber has posted a few times. What I have discovered is that spammers will spam if they can get away with it but when caught they disappear at least for a while. Preventing them from at lease opening new threads and posting links will deter them.
"(1) An article of 300 words or more be submitted upon registration"
And that will stop any poets and writers of flash fiction (like myself) from being able to join. It is also what is wrong with wikinut.
I am sorry if the suggestions offended you but they were not meant to do that. I also said that if you could not submit that you could still join and that would give you the opportunity to post your flashes and poetry. As a poet and fiction writer I do understand how you feel. Trust me you would still be able to join HP an post your stuff.
Well, I think a small amount of time when you first join would be fine to prove you are a writer of actual poetry articles. I don't think people should be offended. I am currently on probation myself here for things I won't go into as this is unrelated to your topic of spam - but I mention it because my hubs must be approved before publication no matter what the topic is and such is life. I can't even edit them without them being arbitrated. As for your comment about stopping forum posts, I don't think you will lose much by not commenting in the forums. You will have more time for other things that are more important to you. You will lose your forum badge. But that is unimportant. I've lost that badge and some others as well due to less hubtivity in March. I'm still at a 94 hubber score. I also suggest not bothering with the hub hopper and instead go to the topics page where you will be able to find a variety of hubs to read without having to deal with spammers. Let HP do their own work.
That's one of the point that I made, maybe I didn't state it as well. Most of the Spam comes straight to the forums so we try to keep it clean here. It is easier to spam the forums that create a spam hub so spammers would be turned off by creating the hubs especially if moderated first.
Oh, and ignore The Writers Dog - he (?) was the one on my forum post telling people already following me that I would be away that I was doing this for traffic/backlinks.
When Panda first hit one main idea was raised over and over again without being implemented:
When a new user joins they need a minimum number of articles (say 3-5) to pass moderator approval before they can publish straight to the site.
I think the reasons for this are obvious.
"Oh, and ignore The Writers Dog - he (?) was the one on my forum post telling people already following me that I would be away that I was doing this for traffic/backlinks."
And if you want to start carrying on attacking me for my valid opinions, you may just find yourself reported and end up on probation longer.
EDIT... And I was not the only one with that opinion of your actions.
That had nothing to do with why I am on probation. It was complaining of my cyber bully on HP in one of my hubs in which I made direct reference to her as stalking me. I made it clear who it was- one person - and identified her clearly. Until I published that hub, HP couldn't have cared less about what I said in comments as I had violated no TOS. All forum posts would get me is banned from the forums for about a week-that has nothing to do with publishing hubs.
Oh, and if you read the full thread of that forum thread when I wrote that earlier forum post, you'd know why I wrote it- to tell people not to worry about me after I had made suicidal comments on other people's hubs and then not comment for days. So obviously, not about traffic and backlinks...
I saw your response to Cardisa as an attack to tell her to shut up. As such, I told her to ignore you. That is all.
Sorry, I just cannot relate to this analysis at all. The other forum thread died as we were being advised to stop posting there. There is no point in carrying hostility from one forum thread to another. I wish you well.
It wasn't you, WE in the hub. Sorry if you thought it was? Only people who read that hub know who it was. But I did feel the need to clear up *why* I was put on probation. Forum posts and comments on hubs were not why. Actually, the person it was almost never posts in the forums-ever.
Now to make this post back to spam - the best way to avoid it is to not use use the hub hopper, Cardisa. I know you read most of the time you spend on Hub hoppers via the Hub hopper and this just isn't the best use of your time. I stopped using the hub hopper because I would come across hubs about spiders which freak me out or hot button political issues that make me mad. I stopped using it, and felt much better about it.
Oh no, Flora, I never thought you meant me - I happen to be male. I have only made a single comment on a hub of yours, which was after I linked to your hub on the Pinterest forum thread. Thanks for explaining about the probation, I hope you will get out of that situation soon. Also, thanks for being forthcoming on the other thread. In the future, I will not interfere.
I am hypersensitive about everything I write now, so I over explain myself. Some people consinder that spammy in itself. I consider it trying to avoid misunderstanding. It is hard to know if certain people are men or women if they use a pen name, or how old they are. Same thing with avatars, not everyone has avatars of themselves.
When you have pen names and avatars of someone other than yourself, I think you do open yourself up to people wondering about you when you are new to sites. Once you have written about yourself, then people can figure out who you are. as Wrylit said, after Panda hit, there was talk of implimenting this, but it never really happened. I joined after Panda, and my first hub was published on my first day on HP.
Hi Everyone, I have not been ignoring you @ Writers Dog. I have been away on a family crisis. I will read everything before replying. Thank you all for your input. I will read all the posts and replies first.
I agree that something to stop poor quality pages ending up on this site would be an improvement.
It is possible to screen work for duplication on the internet before publishing it on line at a site. A word threshold could be used as a temporary measure until a certain number of articles had been published.
I too, have published poems here in the past. If a word count limit was introduced retrospectively and I wanted to keep them here, I would combine them to up the word count.
After I was here about six months, I suddenly realized this is a business and is run for profit i.e. they allow me to publish here - but they 'own the ball' so set the rules of the game. This means Hubpages may have their own reasons for having things the way they are.
In June, 2010, I published my hub entitled "What HubPages fails to do about spam." Since then, little seems to have changed.
Cardisa... where are you finding the majority of the spam?
I only seem to come across it here in the forums. Last night I reported one attack that had been posted in fifteen topics.
Thursday night I reported a spamming across ten topics.
I would be in favour of restricting access to the forums until you have a set number of Hubs published, with the exception of the help topics.
@The Writers Dog, I have found it while greeting (thank God I can flag before they get out), while hopping, here in the forums and while reading hubs from the new hubs section. I have also had to flag indecent profiles of women soliciting you know what. It is every where but the forums is easiest especially for sock pockets who know the site already. That's the other thing. If a person is banned, their IP needs to be moderated and they need to be on probation when they open the second account. I know that some innocents people have been banned but there needs to be some regulations.
Hi WryLit. Yes, I hop, but so far I have only found poor quality stuff, nothing that I could look at and instantly identify as spam. Some is obviously run through a spinner, and I have flagged a couple of those.
I was thinking along the lines of the post on handbags that was posted in fifteen forum threads yesterday. That is more what I think of when I think of spam.
Never thought of spun content as spam. Thanks WryLit
It seems spam has a different meaning here than in other settings, such as emails. Regarding the low-quality hubs, I sometimes look at brand new hubs by members only on the site for a few minutes. It's amazing the number of hubs that don't meet site criteria. I'm not sure if Cardisa is referring to these, but if there's a way to better filter the promotional, poorly written, blog-like, adult content, spun and many other violators before their junk actually hits the site (and search engines), perhaps the site would rank higher in searches than it appears to now.
Or do what Wizzley does and make the articles publishable but not crawlable by searching engines UNTIL they've been approved by a moderator.
I don't know what the impact would be. Spammy hubs must be a small fraction of all published hubs, and supposedly the damage would fall on the spammy subdomain, not HubPages as a whole. It would be interesting to learn more about the effect on others.
One of the 'best ways' to see what some new members here will try to get away with when publishing a hub is this - go to the Hubber's tab and click on latest i.e. the newly signed up.
Fortunately they start with a low Hubberscore and I guess some/most are removed before the majority of visitors here get to witness them. It is from visiting that part of Hubpages in the morning (I am in the UK)that made me stop writing new hubs as often as I use to. Also a long wait for a totally unsuitable page that was flagged; to be removed from the site helped with my decision.
'If you leave your door open do n't be surprised when you end up having to get the broom out and sweep up more.'
I think a visit to that part of HubPages and seeing what resides there strengthens Cardisa's OP.
WryLilt is right other ideas could deter some of the spam.
Please don't let this be your last post. We'd be sorry to see you go. You do offer some good ideas here. I know other sites such as work at home mom that make members go through a probation period before they can post in the forums. It might be good for HP too...
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