Consciousness, Thoughts and the Brain
Conversations can certainly be thought provoking and stimulating A friend and I bantered about the emanation of and function of the thought process following a simple question. Because of my own experience of slowing down thoughts via the discipline of meditation (the real kind), I was able to formulate this dialogue on the thought process. I wanted to share it with you and perhaps it will tweak your own thoughtform as to the function of our brain as an organ and not the actual creator of ideas.
What information is not.
(Question asked by friend)
We are sure that information does not possess physical properties like mass and charge but as it get translated through mediums its content remains unadjusted. Does this suggest there is an immaterial aspect to information to the mediums through which it is conductible?
Maybe this question could be re-worded into "What thought is not." Information can be obtained from material sources, ie books, computers, videos etc. But how does a person have a new thought and manifest it, or be creative with that thought?
Thoughts are not in the head but are filtered through it, or through the brain. You can experience this by slowing down thoughts and then sourcing the origin. Brave is a philosopher who actually makes his hypothesis experiential!
Experientially there is an immaterial or non-physical aspect to thoughts which are filtered through a conductor being the brain.
So if you say information (thoughts) has been proven to be non-physical (I'm glad it has), then just where does creative thought emanate? I would love science to find out!
The way you treat thoughts or information leads me to believe that you think there are non-physical aspects to the physical mediums that conduct thought. Is that right?
Although on one level you cannot separate them in a functional sense, ie in a physical playing field, but the process of thought can be slowed down to such an extent that you can dissect the parts and discern what is physical and what is non-physical.
Jewels are you suggesting that you can slow down thoughts to a point of purity where you find the term "thought" inadequate?
That's a good question and my answer to it is: Yes. I'd use the word emanation first, then thought. From there, the question would be: What does thought emanate from?
If you go inward and lets say upward far enough then words and thoughts are inadequate - the experiences you have are difficult to find language for, but you can certainly comprehend the experiences. They get filtered down, and by the time they go through brain matter there is a loss of the purity definitely.
Do you think the emanation of thoughts is a physical process? Possibly one we cannot explain. but as your break back the layers in thought to its emanation is it a marrying of the material and immaterial is it one or the other? Do you agree that since information and its content can be preserved through mediums that the divide between what is material and immaterial is only limited perceptions?
No, the emanation of thought is not physical. To experience this keep turning your consciousness inward, the more inward you can go, the more you can see that physicality is vague and quite irrelevant. Tends to make you understand that it's consciousness that's the key, not the physical vehicle that's important. It is true that the closer you get to the physical body the more dense the feeling which suggests that once upon a time (if you'll excuse that analogy) we were less physical than we are now.
Perception is limited by experience. If your only experience is the physical body, you will only ever have perception from the physical arena, which is why people believe that thought comes from the brain. It's mainly because that's what they have been taught and so that's what they take as their experience. If a person was taught to quieten the mind and watch thoughts and then see where they emanated from, then people would understand a different set of teachings, and from an experiential standpoint. Anything other than experience by the way is merely conjecture.
A question is when does a thought begin to stimulate the physical senses and the brain become active in the processing of thoughts. The answer is likely to be: There is no limit to consciousness. The life of a serious spiritual Initiate is one who puts consciousness where there isn't any. The term Sleeper is to describe a person who believes only the written word and lives by the rules taught to him by the authorities around, and never questions the integrity of that authority. An initiate is a pioneer beyond all others, who goes beyond the boundaries of their current state of consciousness and discovers many treasures.
It sounds like you have some experience definitely interesting insight... do you have any guesses as to the origins of consciousness?
To have the answer to that question is the same as asking why creation was formed?
You can reach states of consciousness where you lose reference, this is akin and beyond states of bliss. Bliss is an easy state to reach. States of Self or what the Upanishads call atman is an extreme involuted state which is not easy to reach, paradoxically when you reach it you don't know you have. And it's not until you are out of it do you realise you were in it. The normal muggle will have no concept of this state of consciousness. It has been the experience of many when coming out of experiences of Self that deep levels of emotional turmoil come to the surface.
It is also a state where individuality is lost, this by the way is a transcendental level of human consciousness. From these states words become useless.
Very very interesting Jewels! I have practised some meditation and I have felt the bliss but I don't know if I've reached atam you say that you realzie you were there when you leave. Do you care to elaborate a little for me? This has really turned into a stimulating discussion for me i'm learning a lot!
My Teacher would answer: "If you have to ask then you don't know." It is not a state that can be described to someone, it is beyond descriptive words. But lets say when you have the experience, you know you've had the experience. And if you go looking for it in the initial stages of meditation you will not find it. Anything you look for with the mind, is just the mind. It will get in the way and sabotage your meditation.
Keep going with the bliss and, just keep going.
Thank you very much. The furthest stage I could articulate may very well be bliss. In this stage your body feels whole and you feel your center of graity in the stomach rather than in the head. This is very encouraging and I plan to get back into meditating because of it! thanks for the dedication to the thread!
I very much enjoyed our discussion. It also helped me articulate my own experiences.
Its interesting that for this sort of conversation articulation is the path to ego loss. The more clearly to speak about your minds process the easier it is to push them aside.. using mind to kill mind.
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