Early Armenian History: Origins and Myths

Pre-Armenian Introduction

While Armenians will claim that they are the original inhabitants of Eastern Anatolia, or what is known as the Armenian Plateau, whether descended from Noah's youngest son Japheth or otherwise, this assertion is only partially accurate. Emerging out of the darkness of pre-history in this mountainous, rugged region that today comprises western Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Iran came a people known as Nairi or, as they would later be called, the Uruartu.

While the pre-Armenian civilization is past, its identity is found through examples of words like Nairi itself, which lives on in Armenian culture still through women who carry the namesake. Additionally, Mount Ararat, most remembered from the Biblical story of Noah, derives itself from the former Urartu, and still carries with it the reverence and sense of connection to the mountain.

Tucked amongst the dense mountains of this region lived numerous, seasonally isolated peoples: The Mitanni people who lived to the southwest of Lake Van, the Manah who resided around Lake Urmia, and the Diakhi, who were centered in the location of present day Erzerum. Together these comprised the Nairi confederation. There were potentially many other peoples comprising the Nairi confederation, but at this point I have not the knowledge to speak about them.

These peoples, as the unification process evolved, held their own perceptions and titles for self identification. Individual power amongst the semi-isolated communities kept the individual power of local lords, or naxarars. But as their centralized power grew, and their influence widened, other peoples were able to observe them, and come up with their own discriptive terms:

"By the 11th c BC, the Nairi tribe had fallen, and Assyrian tablets from this period make the first mention of "Urartu" as a strong power. Also at this time Assyria went into 200 years of decline, allowing Urartu to develop and expand its influence. Hurrian influences continued, but the Urartu tribe began to absorb Assyrian culture, including the use of cuneiform to replace pictogram writing. By the 9th c. BC the Urartu kingdom had established its regional power far beyond its capital at Tushpa (present day Van), invading Mesopotamia, and unifying the tribes in the Armenian plateau into one centralized state. The Urartians consistently cut Assyria from the trade routes to the Mediterranean, and enjoyed a monopoly on commerce between Asia and the West. The Urartians called their country Biainili (the name "Urartu" comes from the Assyrian language)" (Ney).

Around 900 b.c.e. the Urartu coalesced in a coalition under a central monarch, and it is Aramu who is entered first on the King List, reigning from 860-840 b.c.e..

These peoples are those mentioned in the Biblical book of Jeremiah concerning the destruction of Babylon, referenced as the Kingdom of Ararat in chapter 51:

Verse 25- "Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations, prepare the nations against her, call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz.."

and the Babylonian Annals.

For further reading regarding the Uruartu/Nairi I have an article dedicated to them, though still not as complete as I would like it, linked in the sources section at the conclusion of this piece.

Tushpa (Van)-the Capital of the Urartu.
Tushpa (Van)-the Capital of the Urartu.

Hayk and Movses

Movses Khorenatsi
Movses Khorenatsi

The Emergence of Proto-Armenians: Hayk and Bel and Ara and Shamiram

"Armina" was the term used by Ancient Persians and Greeks to describe the people who would supplant the Nairi/Urartu. Unlike the Urartu, who spoke a language related to the modern Caucasus, the "Hay" spoke an Indo-European language; these people emigrated eastward, across the Bosphorus, through Hittite territories, and came to settle amongst the Nairi. Intermarrying with them, these two peoples would interweave more than their DNA, "The Armenians intermarried over the ages with the various peoples of Urartu, as the ancient origins of the Artsrunid house, for example, would seem to indicate, as do the Urartean names borne by Armenians that Darius mentions in his victory inscription at Behistun" (Russell).

Aside from carrying on names via children and places, the ongoing reverence to Mount Ararat carried forward through into Armenian identity, even keeping its enshrined status through identification with Noah and the Great Flood mentioned in the Old Testement Book of Genesis. Today the peaks of Ararat, Biblical Urarat, within the national boundaries of Turkey, and off limits to Armenians, represent the loss of a nation, and the demonstrate the reality of forgotten promises from the West towards Armenian people.

Armenian people, however, do not only derive from these two sources. According to James Russell,

"The country (Armenia/Urartu) suffered from the incursions of the Cimmerians (Gomer in the Bible; Armenian Gamirk) and of the Scythians, a North Iranian nomadic nation of the steppes. Their memory is preserved in the Armenian place name Shakashen ("Abode of the Sakas," i.e. Scythians), in words like Armenian hskay, "giant," literally "a good saka," and in names like that of the epic hero Paroyr Skayordi "son of the Saka," who is listed by Movses Khorenatsi as one of the progenitors of the Armenians. Armenian tradition, thereby commemorates events that occurred a thousand years before the Armenians preserved a script to record them. The Bible calls the Scythians by the name Ashkenaz, from a misspelling of Ashguza; and Greek Skythos comes from the latter. In Armenian tradition, the Armenians are called sons of Askanaz; so these North Iranian nomadic people, too, contributed to the rich fabric of the formation of the Armenian nation, albeit with the intrustion of biblical legends about the same events. As Urartu faced to power of Assyria to the south and the incursions of nomads from the north, a third power was on the rise" (27).

This third is represented through the entrance of Cyrus the Great into Armenia...which will be saved for a future piece, but all of this points to the close relationship and even kinship between Persians and Armenians.

In terms of Armenian origin myths there is the legend of Hayk/Haik, and then this man's relationship to another mythical character named Bel.

Hayk, the hero/patriarch of the Armenian (or Hay) people is characterized as a mighty archer, as the pictures included in this article illustrate.

His opponent, Bel, is the representation of Urartu's ancient nemesis, Assyria: Bel stands for Baal, a word meaning "lord" which is used towards foreigners who try to impose their will on Hayestan (Armenia),

Hayk, according to the legend, had been part of a larger southern migration of people descending from Noah. Hayk ends up staying in Babylon, but, with the rise of the detested Bel to power, he decides to take his son and larger family to Ararat, where he founds Haykashen.

While a mortal man, he is still characterized in heroic form. He is a powerful, giant of a man, who led his people with honor and integrity. Those who opposed him faced a mighty warrior with masterful skills with the bow and unending courage and strength. Bel calls upon Hayk, and attempts to persuade him to come back, and the message is refused. In response, Bel sets out to destroy Hayk with a great military force. Hayk, however, is given warning by his grandson, Kadmos, whom he had set in a place of observation. After evading the Assyrian attack, Hayk, knowing the position of the enemy forces, attack Bel, who is stuck amid a mountain pass. With an arrow from his great bow, Hayk kills Bel, and sends his foe's forces into panicked flight.

This story represents the cultural fossilization of conflict between Armenians and Assyrians, but has been connected to something much deeper, "It has become in the Armenian consciousness...the paradigm of the just resistance of a small people to the tyranny of a great empire. Hayk is a hero on human scale. Armenian tradition calls the Milky Way the "Trail of the Straw-Thief," for the Armenian god Vahagn, probably a stand-in for Hayk, on a cold night once stole kindling for his people from the woodshed of the mighty Bel" (Russell).

There are also the mythological beings of Ara and Shamiram...

This legend is also found within the writings of Movses Khorenatsi, who can be read about more through links in the sources section of this article, and through future publications of my own.

Similar to the Hayk and Bel story, Shamiram (or Semiramis) is an Assyrian queen who falls deeply for an Armenian king named Ara (meaning "the beautiful"). She tries to gain his affection, but he rejects her. Upset at being rebuffed, she chases after Ara with an army. Battle ensues, and Ara is killed. Befallen by tragedy, Shamiram takes Ara's lifeless body back to her palace, and her supernatural dogs (aralezk-or 'Ara lickers') in the hopes that he could be revived. The dogs, however, don't arrive and Ara's body decomposes. Yet, Shamiram would find men who looked like Ara, and parade around with them in public to put out the idea that she had revived him.

In Movses version of the story, Ara is portrayed as faithful, honorable family man who was absolutely loyal to his people. Shamiram, however, is perceived as a nymphomaniac who has no respect for the lives or ways of others...willing to destroy others and her own for her own selfish pursuits.

The character of Ara is not only found through this myth, or through the writings of Movses. Ara can also be found in Plato's "Republic" as Er. This man is the son of Armenios, who is killed in battle. He then travels down to Hades, and then returns to his body.

As can be clearly seen, both of these myths involve the theme of an outside, foreign entity who seeks to gain possession of Armenia, and this people's unwillingness to bend to such influences.

This stands as an introduction to the Armenian people, tying in with the article I have already published regarding the Urartu.

Upon this platform more will be shared....

The next look with be at the relationship between the Armenians and the Achaemenid Persians...

Peace!

Mount Ararat

More by this Author

  • The Urartu: Ancient People of the Armenian Plateau
    5

    Asia Minor, Anatolia, the Armenian Plateau Standing atop a long, rugged, windswept hill, resting gently over the borax-laden Lake Van, sets the crumbling ramparts of the Urartian capital city of Tushpa. From a...

  • Breeding the Master Race
    12

    ...and what a wonderful world it will be... The true promise of National Socialism in Germany, at least in the minds of those at the pinnacle of power, was not measured in terms of physical borders, mineral resources,...


Comments 84 comments

Barnabas Johnson profile image

Barnabas Johnson 6 years ago from Peaks Island, Maine

Having spent six years as a professor of law at the American University of Armenia, I find this account very interesting, and I encourage your further efforts and look forward to the results.

Question: Are you aware of genetic tests indicating how close, genetically, the Armenians are to the Persians as distinct from the Turks and Kurds? I am not saying such studies exist, merely that if they do, the results might be historically illuminating. A seemingly wise and informed Armenian-American once told me he thought Armenians are (were, long ago) genetically very close to Persians -- that they are (were) essentially "Christianized Persians"; but when I asked other Armenians about this, they tended to take great insult. Any insights?

Again, thanks for an interesting read.

P.S. As lovely and impressive as Ararat is, it is even more so when juxtaposed with its perfectly-coned sister. I recommend that you supply a photo showing both these peaks.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 6 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

I agree with you on all counts...I see no difference between Persians and Armenians...

The most famous of Armenians, going back to the naxarars and kings like Tigran...they were Persian...

Zoroastianism was largely the religion practiced by Armenians, as with Persians, until influence from the Greeks, via Alexander's exploits, altered the trends...

As my article mentions, the "Armenian" gene pool is diverse, including Persian ancestry...and it has only diversified further as Armenian diaspora has spread globally, as can be seen through my own background.

Thanks for your response....take care!


Barnabas Johnson profile image

Barnabas Johnson 6 years ago from Peaks Island, Maine

Thanks. Again, I look forward to your next installment. I love that photo of Massis and Sis together! That cloud, and its shadow, I took a photo very similar to it. Oh, I miss Armenia!


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain

This is a very details hub and I very much enjoyed the information you imparted, information which I did not know anything about.

I will read further, hence I'm logging you from now on!

Many thanks.

John


mikelong profile image

mikelong 6 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

I will have more upcoming....

Thanks for stopping by and leaving your mark.


Barnabas Johnson profile image

Barnabas Johnson 6 years ago from Peaks Island, Maine

I'm fascinated by that photo of Sis and Massis, with that cloud and its shadow. I think a friend of mine took it, some years ago, and sent it to me. Or maybe I took it. My focus is sheer curiosity -- where did you get it? I have not the slightest interest in copyright issues. I just think its a lovely view, and I want to recall how I got that same photo on my computer's collection. Any thoughts? Barnabas


mikelong profile image

mikelong 6 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

http://t-i.ifrance.com/az-kars.html

I know the picture can be found here...but I can't be certain that this was where I obtained it from...it can be found in at least one other place..

http://nibootoo.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.ht...

I was told stories as a boy about how my great-grandfather used to climb Ararat...You are right...it is a lovely view..


iantoPF profile image

iantoPF 6 years ago from Sunny California

What a terrific Hub, thank you very much. I have a number of Armenian friends and work colleagues and I now find I have an interest in their culture that I didn't have before reading this Hub.

Terrific work.


KP56 6 years ago

Thank you very much for this. Wonderful!

May I suggest another definition of Skyorti to you? Hska Vorti! Meaning "son of a Giant". Movses Khorenatsi has preserved a lot more than we realize, in his History. All we need do is analyze it, and him, properly.

Armenians have always traced their roots to the Nairi, to the Urartians, and to the Armens. To severe this link would be akin to saying that the Gauls and Franks have no relation to the French and the English have no relation to the Angles and Saxons and Brittons before.

With regards to the Persians, the close relations you are talking about started during the Achaemenid period. The ruling class was established and it would have been the ruling class which was related to the Persians.

Ararat is a lovely view. Do you still wonder why it was considered to home of the Gods? Why it is chosen as the landing site of Noah's Arc? It was also venerated by the Babylonians and Assyrians. It is Majestic!

It is a volcano.

Best

KP


One-life1 profile image

One-life1 5 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

I Absolutely enjoyed reading your hub and looking at those wonderful picture of Ararat. Armenia is beautiful. Bravo


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

Thank you...

It is funny...so many tangents have occurred along my Hubpages existance, I have failed to continue this series...


Vahan 5 years ago

I assume Prof. Johnson sarcastically implied that your work is full of bullshit, sorry for my language, but writing something when you haven't done the proper research is the work of very stupid people, especially about the history of a whole nation... looking @ your references one with proper education would acknowledge that you're not reliable.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

You would be assumming incorrectly...

You know what they say about those who make assumptions...

Are you one of those poor, hapless Armenians who believe that you are descended from Noah? If so....the jokes on you.

As for my source list, it is incomplete...you can add Professor Hovannissian to that list...being that he was my Armenian Studies Professor at UCLA for three years...

There aren't many better sources than him....or from within his reading lists/texts....

Have you heard of him?

If not, I would then question your sources.....

Please point out what I wrote that was incorrect...

I have done the research....

Where is yours?

Please come back and generate something tangible, instead of nonsensical....

Perhaps you think because my name is Mike Long that I am not Armenian, and therefore not "qualified" to discuss any of this..

But again, you would be mistaken.

It is too bad that you have such an obtuse personality, at least for this morning...


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

Reading through Professor Johnson's remarks again, I have no clue what you were reading Vahan... There is no sarcasm.....

Wake up, man.


KP56 5 years ago

This is getting interesting again.

So you studied with Dr. Richard Hovanissian? I've read his books, and enjoyed them thoroughly. But getting back to Professor Johnson's remarks, I don't think there is sarcasm but a good point when he refers to genetics.

Armenian Historians (from Armenia)follow the indeginous theory, that is Armenians were always indegenous to the region. Western Armenian Historians, and Richard Hovanissian is one, believe in the migration theory. That is Armenians migrated into the region from the west. The migration theory, for some reason, cuts ties, all that existed previously is destroyed. Urartu stopped existing and then the Armenians moved in. It does not make sense. It should be more of an amalgamation, a combination of both theories, now that would make a lot more sense to me.

Previously, I gave you an alternate meaning for Skyorti. That was also because it went well with your name. In ancient times Long could have translated to hsgah, although yergar is more like it.

The reason why professor Johnson's friends might have been offended at his question, might be ages old. There is, I believe, more of a Parthian element in the Armenian mix, rather than Persian. The enmity started when the Sassanids (persian) killed off the Achamenid rulers (parthian). The Parthians in Persia, packed up and moved to Armenia, at least the ruling class did.

Best

KP


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

I have heard Professor Hovanissian explain the mixture of the Nairi with the Armen who immigrated from the west into that region.

I did not disagree with Mr. Johnson concerning the genetic linkages between Armenians and Persians... Both are Indo-European peoples, and, as I stated earlier, the rulers of Armenia were Persian nobility... Until the influences of Hellenism, Armenian writers composed in Persian.. They were also Zoroastrian by faith.

There was no disagreement there.

My family name was Ouzounian prior to the immigration of my great-grandparents and grandparents to the United States. However, I have also heard it expressed as Yergardian..meaning "long" or "tall".

There are Armenians out there who believe they descended directly from Noah... My own grandfather believed that Armenian was the original language spoken in the Garden of Eden.. While I enjoy the diversity of ideas concerning heritage, it is upsetting that some become agitated, as we have seen here.

It's unforunate that Mr. Vahan couldn't express himself like a civilized person.


KP56 5 years ago

One mystery solved, although it is exactly as I thought. Thank you for clarifying your Family name. However, you do know that Ouzoun means "long" or "tall" in Turkish. It is conceivable that Yergardian was first Turkified and then Anglicised as Long.

But getting back to the topic, Armenians do believe that the Plains of Ararat are the original Garden of Eden Mount Ararat the landing place of Noah's Arc, and if the Deluge killed all mankind save Noah and his kin...

With regards to Zoroastrianism,I do not believe that it ever caught on in Armenia. In fact there were many punitive expeditions on this account. Armenians celebrate "Vartanants" and "Vahanancs" for a reason. Also, Why do you supose that the Kings of Armenia being Persians, as you say, sought their wives from the Hellenic states in the Pontic, rather than Persian Pricesses? I do believe that the Hellenic influence came in through the mothers of successive kings and also the Sassanid takeover in Persia.

With regards to heritage, I do believe that we should all keep an open mind. Also, we should give Khorenatsi a little more credit than he gets. I know he tide all beginnings to the bible, after all he was a monk, but he was getting his sources, some at least, from oral traddition, "they sang it on the Lyre".

Why is it that today Armenians not only have Urartian words in their voccabulary, but also carry on some of the tradditions of Urartu? Would it surprise you if I said that Armenians also carry out tradditions of the Hittites? Up until a few years ago, decendants from Sassoon used Hittite healing techniques, 50 years ago I understand it was more prevalent.

It was your Grandparents who immigrated to the US. For some reason, one of the aspects that is forgotten in such instances, is the age old Armenian methodology of instruction. Armenian mothers always instructed their children through stories. Any of us who has come to the west has missed out on this. It is also one of the results of the Genocide.

Best

KP


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

I agree with you wholeheartedly concerning the Turkification of the name.

That is exactly what I had been told previously.

Concerning the place of Eden, I have heard different variations. Then again, American missionaries also influenced the religious philosophies of my paternal great-grandparents.

Concerning the Zoroastrian roots, I was looking pre-Alexander, and I agree that there was a shift that came with Hellenistic contact..

I am not surprised by any potential that you refer to. Anatolia was a major crossing and strategic point. Genetics of all types, just as their linguistic tag-alongs, have been left behind.

Just as Urartians used Mesopotamian style cuneiform and pottery, other influences followed the Tigris and Euphrates northrwards (not to leave out or minimize those who entered from any other direction).

My paternal great-grandparents brought their children with them when they came to this nation...it's quite a fascinating story that I am still unravelling..

My father broke with the tradition of marrying within the Armenian community. Because of this my Armenian language skills are very limited. I didn't start learning it until my junior year of university. Even then, it was for native speakers, and the professor's alternative solution failed miserably.

It is fascinating how the Genocide has left its mark. I wish Armenians were more cognizant of the role they need to play in society, wherever they may be....

Instead of turning into oppressors, they need to identify with those groups who are struggling as they did, and as many continue to do....

I know of an Armenian-owned restaurant chain that preys on undocumented immigrant labor, while the clique of owners fight and jostle over percentages of the profits...

When I finish that project I will definitely be posting it up here on HP.

Thanks for the ongoing dialogue.


KP56 5 years ago

This all started from one of my favourite topics: Ancient Armenian History, and we are unravelling another history which could be just as relevant and just as interesting. So, the pleasure is all mine!

For most Armenians, History stops at 1915. The Genocide! Very few dig deeper, and fewer still go beyond the conversion to

Christianity.

Another topic that is neglected, and the more I think about it now the more of a plan is germinating in my head, is demographics. After 1915, where did they wind up? Example Ouzounians came from somewhere. Which village? They can be found in the US, Canada, Brazil, Argentina, etc.

Armenia and Persia were close neighbors and always had some type of relations. There is no doubt that there are some elements in what later constituted Persia, in the Armenian mix.

Recent Archaeological finds show that There was a lot more going on in that part of the world than previously creditted. Just think, the oldest shoe and the oldest winery were found in the same cave at Areni. Perhaps we now have a reason for the Assyrian's yearly northward raid or should I say trek?

Best

KP


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

I agree with you concerning the spreading out of peoples...

Concerning the Ouzounian family, I was told a story about 12 brothers assembled in Macedonia following the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans... Being very wealthy, these brothers split up their wealth amongst themselves and split up...with my great grandfather's line heading east into central Anatolia. Supposedly all the Ouzounians are related, as well..

I have not been able to substantiate any of this, however..

My family came to the United States at different times, some prior to the Genocide.

Armenians are, aside from an ethnic studies course or Genocide discussion, ignored by mainstream history..which is a great misfortune...

Concerning the Genocide, far too few continue the discussion past 1915, and the elimination of the promise of Wilsonian Armenia, or the Treaty of Sevres..... The formation of modern Turkey and the second slaughter/deportation/forced capitulation of Armenian lands under threat of total annihilation by the Kemalist state are too trivial, I suppose....or controversial..

Things have to change..

Thank you for your ongoing dialogue KP


Vahan 5 years ago

hehe I don't show off myself by naming professors Mike Long... if your claim of having references is correct, learn some citation & use dem... I do not wish to insult you or get insulted... I am not here to argue about your knowledge, but to constructively critisize... You claim Khorenatsi Our Historian to be dishonest or mythical, but archeology has proven him correct. I am not from the US & perhaps am not aware of the studies going on der... & just for d sake of mentioning I dnt blv Armenians came from Noah, but from Haig... u should read dat story, of Haig & Pel... also abt Ara & Shamiram... u shld read abt d chronicles of Van as well... & also try 2 dig in other names of the Nairi confederation... plz dnt rely on wikipedia der's nothing der abt my history... start with Khorenatsi & take it from der... KP56 has interesting points as well... Oh and 1 more thing we never were Zoroastrians...!


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

Wow...

Vahan, you are sadly mistaken about much...

You make grand assumptions about where I get my information and what I claim... And you are wrong on all counts.

You are telling me to read stories that I already discussed here, and I am fully cognizant of the mythical story that links Haig to Japheth, one of the sons of Noah.

It is becoming clear to me that you are not even reading my post...

If this is going to be the continued theme of your writing here, then I will begin to deny your responses.

C'mon Vahan, you can do much better than this...


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

This is our history Vahan...not yours...


Vahan 5 years ago

you discussed Ara & Shamiram as well? I assume you also discussed the Chronicles of Van. I did not say anything about Haig's ancestry... This will be my last comment... you have a very civilized way of accepting comments... your history is twisted Mike & it's sick, you are a mixture of everything but Armenian... & what you talk about has nothing to do with my great history...


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

Vahan,

And I quote from my article above:

"There are also the mythological beings of Ara and Shamiram...

This legend is also found within the writings of Movses Khorenatsi, who can be read about more through links in the sources section of this article, and through future publications of my own.

Similar to the Hayk and Bel story, Shamiram (or Semiramis) is an Assyrian queen who falls deeply for an Armenian king named Ara (meaning "the beautiful"). She tries to gain his affection, but he rejects her. Upset at being rebuffed, she chases after Ara with an army. Battle ensues, and Ara is killed. Befallen by tragedy, Shamiram takes Ara's lifeless body back to her palace, and her supernatural dogs (aralezk-or 'Ara lickers') in the hopes that he could be revived. The dogs, however, don't arrive and Ara's body decomposes. Yet, Shamiram would find men who looked like Ara, and parade around with them in public to put out the idea that she had revived him.

In Movses version of the story, Ara is portrayed as faithful, honorable family man who was absolutely loyal to his people. Shamiram, however, is perceived as a nymphomaniac who has no respect for the lives or ways of others...willing to destroy others and her own for her own selfish pursuits.

The character of Ara is not only found through this myth, or through the writings of Movses. Ara can also be found in Plato's "Republic" as Er. This man is the son of Armenios, who is killed in battle. He then travels down to Hades, and then returns to his body."

If you cannot read through my article completely, that is on you.

You can assume whatever you wish, but as the famous saying goes..."when you assume, you make an ass of u (you) and me"..

In terms of civil responses, I think you need to check yourself. Your swear words and lack of decorum speak volumes. You have no place trying to critique me on this.

As for your posting here, you have offered nothing but pollution, distraction, and nonsense.

Your comments will not be missed.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

Vahan --> "... & just for d sake of mentioning I dnt blv Armenians came from Noah, but from Haig... u should read dat story, of Haig & Pel... also abt Ara & Shamiram.."

So, you didn't comment on Haig's ancestry?

You can't even stay consistent with your posts...

Again...this is a shared history between us. You can try to call me un-Armenian, or pass me off as "less" of an Armenian than you....but that is utter foolishness..

Grow up, read completely and correctly before commenting, don't be so lazy with your spelling, and don't dish out insults if you can't take them in return...(though I have not insulted you as you have I here)..

Your actions here are a shame to Armenians...


KP56 5 years ago

Gentlemen...! It is OUR History! NOBODY has the right to privatize it. However, it is amazing how the reading of History or A Story can have different meanings to different people.

Whether you are from Armenia or the US, the West or the East, you have each inherited the Armenian genes, Armenian History and I hope you also have inherited a capacity for understanding. I know there is/has been a rift between western historians and eastern historians based on the migration theory of Armenians. Now having said that, and you both mentioned the story of Hayk and Bel, a story, I believe many young Armenians were raised on, no matter which side of the world they were, mentions that Hayk came in to a land near a lake found some people there, subdued them, and ruled over them. Then he fought Bel.

No matter how you look at this, you have to admit that Khorenatsi is telling us there was a migration, but he places it from the south. Collins, by the way, claims that according to Pliny one of the tribes inhabitting Elam was called "Hyi". I have to admit that is the only place I saw this reference which draws my curiosity.

I can sense Vahan's ire at the mention of Zoroastrianism in Armenia. Researching Armenian Mythology like I am, I can say that Zoroastrianizm never caught on in Armenia. This does not mean that it wasn't introduced to Armenia and it does not mean that it wasn't practiced in some areas. In truth, the Iranian Gods or religions never attained popularity in Armenia. A local God always supplanted them. Please do not tell me Aramazd was Ahura Mazda. I will not buy that. I believe Aramazd was an older local God whose name was changed to appease the Iranian conquerrors of the time who wanted to introduce religious changes.

Hayk and Bel; Ara and Shamiram; How I loved those stories. But are they real, carried on in the Oral Traddition until Khorenatsi committed them to paper? Or were they just made up stories to entertain us? We know that there is no Archaeological proof that Moses ever existed. Does that negate all the teachings of Judaism?

Armenian History is a rich and diverse and covers a few millenia. Deffinitely more and more research is needed with all the contructive criticism to come. But please BE constructive!

Best

KP


Vahan 5 years ago

All what I was trying to do was to discuss, yet it came out wrong coz i was furious @ reading to this article & many others on the net which are based on some incomplete theories. I am sorry for overreacting (it somewhat was also related to my health; last week I was rather ill) I am sorry for calling you stupid, it kind of made you reject anything I would say; well the whole tone would. This can be taken as an apology :) I would love to talk more about this subject with you guys but I lack the knowledge of the formal words or the technical ways to validate my facts in this domain, that's why I refrain from writing articles. I wish I had studied Archeology or History; I might after I finish my Masters in my current domain. Mike, Ara does not mean Handsome in Armenian, his title was Handsome, he was called Ara Keghetsig. & Semiramis is found in Assyrian & Greek notes & d whole story of Ara is in fact history of how the Armenian King refused to be the bitch of the Suppressor...u guys can email me if u like @ Bright_eagle_93@hotmail.com...I'm sorry again if I made u feel like I'm addressing you as less Armenian & I'm sorry 4 being lazy with my spelling...I'm just tired & am saving on bytes :p Oh and KP since u mentioned Hyi,"Hayasa" was also used in alot of neighboring cultures...It sucks that when we adopted Christianity we erased our knowledge & history!!we wouldn't have argued so much if we hadn't, or perhaps we wouldn't exist if we hadn't!


KP56 5 years ago

Ah... yes, civility. Vahan rest assured I will take you up on your invite. I do enjoy discussing this topic.

First the Hyi and Hayasa, The Hyi are mentioned only in one place and to make the connection between the Hyi and the Hayasa will be quite a task. The Hyi were in Elam and the Hayasa on the Armenian Plateau (you notice I refuse to use Anatolia).

The stories that Khorenatsi tells us, I believe, reveal quite a bit more than we think. The problem is understanding Khorenatsi himself. That is possibly one reason why western scholars squabble about the time frame of his writing. Did he write in the 5th century like he claims, or did he write in the 7th century? In my opinion however, they seem to disregard the fact that he was a christian monk in a relatively newly converted country where the priests were still looking to expose "those in league with heathens, etc.".

Since we are talking about Ara and Shamiram, it is interesting to note, that Khorenatsi atributed the construction of Van as well as all cuneiform writings in the area to Shamiram!

Yes we lost a lot of information when the early Christian Priests following St. Gregory (the Parthian, may I add?) romped throughout Armenia destroying old installations, and records as work of heathens. But invading armies carried away just as much, greed probably a little more.

If either of you have not read Kurkdjian's book, please do so. It is now available online. I found it extremely interesting as a history book.

Best

KP


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

I am glad to see that you have returned Vahan.

The past is just water under the bridge..

Concerning what I wrote about Zoroastrian religion in Armenia's pre-Hellenistic/Christian eras, I point to Nina Garsoian's "The Emergence of Armenia"..

"The Greek geographer Strabo, writing at the very beginning of the Christian era, informs us that the customs of the Medes, Persians, and Armenians were the same "because their countries are similar" and that "the sacred rites of the Persians one and all are held in honor by both the Medes and the Armenians; but those of Anaitis are held in exceptional honor by the Armenians who have built temples in her honor in different places and especially in Akilisene." This identification of the great goddess of the Zoroastrian pantheon, Anahita the Lady, with the western Armenian district of Akilisene is borne out by later classical sources, which call this region "Anaetica" or "Anaitis" and by the "Armenian History" attributed to Agat'angelos discription of the destruction of her great temple at Erez (modern Erzincan) in the same district."

She writes on about Strabo's reference to worship of Iazonia, derived from the Avestan yaz-old Persian yad.

Also, horse sacrifices to Mithra, the Zoroastian sun-god were witnessed by Strabo.

I am not here to tic-tac "you're wrong" as such, but does this not back my claim?

As elsewhere in the world, I am sure that there were other cults out there...but Zoroastrianism was definitely a part of Armenian heritage...

In terms of Ara and Shamiram, I thought I was pretty clear in writing about how this represented resistance to foreign dominance, Vahan. I am not being hostile or cruel here, but as you hate incomplete theories, I appreciate dialogue, especially criticism, more if one would show they have read clearly what I have composed...

In terms of the survival of Armenian identity and culture, I think this underscores the countless other cultures that still, after thousands of years, have maintained their identities.. The rise of the nation state and advance of "modernization" and globalixation have worked to erase, or erode the pre-assimilationed self...

As I sit here in southern California, I realize that I am sitting in another Armenia...though they go by different names.. The Chumash people used to live in this San Fernando Valley, along the river that used to run through it.. (It is still here, but is barracaded by concrete walls and dropped below street level for much of its path)

The Chumash are still here....made strangers and outsiders on their own native soil long before Europeans arrived.. Another genocided people, now on their small reservation lands the Chumash have casinos...they had to struggle through state elections, though they are supposed to be a sovereign people... For what they earn (which is less in these tough economic times) they also split with the many other native nations who lack the resources, access, or ability to run casinos, hotels, and resort attractions...

As for people of Mexican heritage, Armenians need to stop abusing and discriminating against them...which I believe is subsiding over time, and realize that their struggles are common...

Mutual respect....not the lording of one's superiority over the other...


KP56 5 years ago

Mike

With respect to Armenian Mythology, there is even less scholarly work than Ancient Armenian History. I am aware of the passage you quoted from Nina Garsoian. However, she is quoting Strabo's observation at one point in time. There is nothing about how it was in the centuries preceeding that observation.

Please let me explain. It is reported that Armenians sacrificed horses to Mithra. Earlier, Armenians sacrificed horses to gods of nature, that is the Sun, the Moon, the River etc...The Sun was a totally different god than Mithra. It does not appear that Mithra reached the same popularity as Vahagn either. Vahagn was another fire god. Anahit was much more popular in Armenia than her counterpart was ever in Persia. It is also a question how a people with no regard for women would have a goddess to worship and pass on to other nations. If the worship of Anahit was introduced to Armenia from outside, and it probably was, it came from elsewhere.

However, the more I delve into Armenian Mythology, the more I read the Armenian Myths that are available, the more I try to analyze the various gods and their stories, the more I am convinced that in the case of Armenia they are recicled. In the sense that the local people had a pantheon they worshipped, with every wave of conqueror who wanted to introduce a new god, the local populace dusted out their pantheon and asked "what does this god do?" "What are his attributes"? "Oh we have that one, call him by whatever name you want, but just leave our god alone".

Ananikian is an interesting read. Incomplete, but interesting and a start. It certainly wet my appetite to dig for more.

Your mention of the Chumash reminds me of an article I read by an elder of the Mikmaq. I'll see if I can find the link and send it to you. Perhaps it sheds some light on why the US steadfastly opposes the mention of Genocide (among other reasons).

Best

KP


KP56 5 years ago

Mike, Here is the link I promised www.danielnpaul.com Happy reading. I know this takes you on a bit of a tangent but...

Best

KP


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

KP,

This isn't a tangent at all, in my mind.

My maternal lineage includes Native American heritage...two sides emerging from genocide..

Regarding Armenia's history regarding religion and culture....as a people setting on a crossroads of cultures, I am sure you are right.

The purpose behind writing this article was to share insights about a people who I believe have an important story to tell, and role to play in contemporary events.

I am glad that a discussion has developed, for a fuller perspective can be gained..

Concerning Mithra, this deity is the Zoroastrian Sun-god...so this connection between Armenian Solar worship, horse offerings, and the Zoroastrian counterpart directly correlate.

There may have been an Armenian Sun god equivalent that preceded it....they may have inherited this from the Nairi... Who is to say?

Strabo attested to what he observed...how in depth he went to understand the direct connection to distinctly Armenian as opposed to Persian this all was is another issue altogether.

To Vahan,

Do you live in Armenia currently?

Thank you


Vahan 5 years ago

No. I wish.

I reside in Lebanon.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

A very fascinating nation..

My great-grandfather did a lot of missionary work throughout Lebanon following the deportations of 1915...

The Church of God of Anderson, Indiana was doing its best to spiritually subjugate people to their will..

My knowledge in terms of Armenian history is far more focused on the 19th and early 20th centuries, and a particular perspective that I have honed in on is the use of missionaries within the Ottoman Empire and the Armenian community...

Creating and perpetuating societal division and animosity...all so that a few Americans could find the high life of privilege....they had to expand their "mission fields"..the tithing machines...that financed their world travels and social status...


Vahan 5 years ago

I hate those missionaries...


livelonger profile image

livelonger 5 years ago from San Francisco

Great stuff, very interesting. BTW, the last name of Maddox (a famous satirical blogger) is Ouzounian. A (not too) distant relative?


mikelong profile image

mikelong 5 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

I've been told that every Ouzounian is related... I have tried to back that up, but have not found proof of this. I have not heard of Maddox Ouzounian, but I will check him out. Thanks for stopping by and leaving your thoughts.


firuz 4 years ago

It's funny to believe that persian and hays are of the same origin. There is not even one single word of armenian origin in persian ,while there are many commons in russian, english and other Indo-erupian languages. Hays live in a place between Syria and Liban and immgirated upward during years. They never played any role in word history and never had government of their own. They were dominated by other nation through all their history. They even lack names and most of their names are of Turkish and Persian origins.


Ani 4 years ago

Armenians and Persians genetically are very far and don't cluster. Please, follow Dienekes's genetic blog.

Tigran The Great was not a Persian, what kind of new BS is that??!

According to various genetic researches Armenians originate from Armenian Hihgland...

ALU INSERTION POLYMORPHISMS IN POPULATIONS

OF THE SOUTH CAUCASUS

"Armenians are a separate ethnic group,

which originated from Neolithic tribes of the Armenian Uplands"

Litvinov S*, Kutuev I, Yunusbayev B, Khusainova R, Valiev R,

Khusnutdinova E

University of Tartu

Faculty of biology and geography

Institute of molecular and cell biology

Department of evolutionary biology

Urmas Roostalu

M Sc. Rva-Liis Loogvali

Prof Dr. Richard Villems

Tartu 2004

“In our study the ancestry of the Armenians was traced back to different parts of Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Turkey, illustrating the fact that historic Armenia was a much larger territory than that of the present Republic of Armenia".

–Banoei, Chaleshtori, Sanati, Shariati, Houshmand,Majidizadeh, Soltani &

Golalipour (2007) Variation of DAT1 VNTR Alleles and Genotypes Among Old

Ethnic Groups in Mesopotamia to the Oxus Region.

“The Armenians are a nation and an ethnic group originating from the Caucasus

and eastern Anatolia, where a large concentration of this community has

remained, especially in Armenia.”

According to Armenian DNA Research Armenians originate from 13 distinct tribes of Armenian Hihgland among which the most famous ones are Armen an Hayasa which gave the names to Armenia an self designation Hayk/Hayastan.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ArmeniaDNAProj...

Here you can find many quotes from various genetic researches on Armenian genes and origin...

http://armeniansworld.com/?p=17773


Ani 4 years ago

Meaning of the name "Ararat" and Youngest Person on Holy Ararat Mount

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94HpH18KvcA

The Origin of the name "Armenia" -The Sons of Light

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVc8jbGGdE0

Why Do Armenians Call Their Country "Hayastan"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8aDJp7z_dA

You can find more educational videos on that channel, all are based on serious works, links are inclued at the end.

Btw, in the last link on genetics you can see Armenians only cluster with themselves, the closest to be with Greeks and they don't have any invaders genes in their blood for the last 4.000 years.We look different because we come from 13 various tribes of Armenian Hihgland from the dawn of civilization...

Armenian Kingdoms of Armen and Hayasa are mentio9ned many times in Akkadians, Sumerian and Hittite inscriptions, up to now we carry those names...


Ani 4 years ago

Khorenatsi is not always understood, his stories tell about Hayk RETURNING to Armenian Hihglands which he left for Babylon. Fascination stuff is time Khorenatsi shows as Hayk's return and forming Armenian Nation coincides with Armenian DNA Research saying there is not evidence of invaders genes in Armenian genes last 4.000 years. That is when Hayk returned and built his nation...


Vartan 4 years ago

Thanks Ani,

I almost had a heart attack seeing the comments above based mostly influenced by Dr.Richard Hovhannessian who every Armenian knows is a history falsifier and a paid agent to use a soft word.

There is no doubt that Armenians are indigenous to the Armenian Highlands. They will try to prove we are aliens to that region so that it justifies the genocide as just another invasion.

I invite every Armenian to climb the mountains of Ughtasar and meditate on the petroglyphs, to go to Karahunge and connect with his ancestors.

We are children of Armenian Highlands, we worship freedom. we are civilization builders!

everyone should get hold of

Armenia: Cradle of Civilization: David Marshall Lang


mikelong profile image

mikelong 4 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

"Every Armenian"?

What a gross generalization.

My aunt was the press secretary for the Armenian Embassy in Washington up until a few years ago, and she originally directed me to Hovanissian. Rather than what you say, Armenians, at least here in the United States, see him as a significant figure. I've seen it with my own eyes. In my own classes with him I was sitting with students (Armenians) who took his classes based off word of mouth from their siblings and Armenian friends who knew who he was, have read his materials, and who have taken his courses. Many of his books are not solely written by him, but share publications from other authors on Armenian history.

While I am Armenian, I do not see Armenians as solely indigenous to the plateau now bearing their name. I see enough difference to call the Nairi/Uruartu distinct. Armenians intermingled with them and the two became one.

Pointing out that a portion of what is now known as Armenian came from outside does not at all justify the Genocide. That is a ludicrous statement. You can believe that, but you are wrong for several reasons. If you want me to list them, I am more than willing.

The land known as Armenia has been inhabited by people using the spoken language for several millennia, but there were no doubt others. I'll ask you Vartan, why is it that Armenian isn't written in Cunneiform? We know that the Nairi/Uruartu were writing in this language. If they are continuous lineages, why were Armenians left with no written language until relatively recently?

Are you going to argue that Armenian nobility were not writing in Persian or, later, Greek? If they were the same people, where did their written language go?

David Lang himself speaks of the Assyrian destruction of the Uruartu/Nairi, and anyone who knows Ancient Near Eastern History knows what that means.

"Ararat" is not an Indo-European word. There are many other words in Armenian that precede Armenian....Nairi, a popular name still today, is not an Indo-European word. Therefore, it is not simply looking at genetics, but linguistics where the traces of people's past...lost to history..can be found.

I don't understand why so many Armenians (fortunately not too many) are bent on the tone I see you, Vartan, using. It isn't necessary, and it isn't supported by any the evidence I have seen, or that any other researcher I know of has seen....even David Lang.


KP56 4 years ago

Mike, If you can get your hands on a table showing the development of the Armenian Alphabet, you should. If there is no relation between the Nairi/Urartu and the Armenians, then you would be hard pressed to explain all the Urartian words in present day Armenian. A simple borrowing does not explain it. If Urartu/Nairi were destroyed by the Assyrians as in your scenario. It also depends on what you mean by destruction. If we follow the Assyrian Anals, the Assyrian Monarchs went to war against the Nairi year after year after year. They always talked about waging war against 50 kings of the Nairi. You do not constantly return if you have won and subjugated the enemy. Interestingly, when Armenia was unified, the people spoke 50 different dialects. The king convinced them to speak his.

Ani and Vahan, I think you should go back and look at History again. Armenia did have a close link with a Persian people but it was the Parthians. Ani and Vahan, I am willing to bet that your names have an "ian" ending. Would you be willing to tell me how you inherited that?

Best


mikelong profile image

mikelong 4 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

The Uruartu/Nairi were destroyed in terms of a functional state. I agree with you that the evidence shows continued contact, but there also was an end to it all. The confederation fell.

The languages are from different groups. Is there intermingling from Uruartu to Armenian? Yes. And the Uruartu aren't the only people to have left their mark.

I realize that there are many Armenians (perhaps an increasing number) who believe that they have to be indigenous to the Armenian plateau. In some ways, they are, but they also have roots from somewhere else. All people, come originally from Africa, which makes the ultimate issue of "indigenous" moot, for there was a time when there were zero people living in Eastern Anatolia... Waves of people moved through this region...with the majority being long lost to history...Armenian, as we know it, is the dominant survivor of this region.


KP56 4 years ago

Did I understand you were related to Missionaries? You do not accept Biblical beginnings? LOL. But I get your drift. Insofar as Armenians are concerned, it also depends on which theory of Indo-European beginings you support.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 4 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

"Related to missionaries."

My paternal great-grandmother was taught English and Protestantism by American Missionaries. My great-grandfather had to leave the Ottoman Empire in the early 1890's because he was wanted by the Ottoman government. He fled to Egypt. American Missionaries, specifically from the Anderson Indiana Church of God organization, and they are responsible for that branch of my family coming to the U.S.

I do not accept the Biblical beginnings at all. They are evidence-less and ridiculous. But, for many, it is an issue of their faith. For many Armenians, faith is nation...but I don't follow that line. (Thank God).

I don't know what the "lol" is about.


KP56 4 years ago

Simple. First to show that there are no accusations and second, in my opinion, religion and science are two sides of the same coin at different times. It would have been difficult to explain a discovery scientifically 4000 years ago. It was easier to ascribe it to a deity. Today that same phenomena would be easier explained scientifically. People have evolved but at varied levels and at varied speeds. The scientists of 4000 years ago were all priests. The new religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam put an end to that and went in a different direction.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 4 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

I agree with you KP.


Ani 4 years ago

KP,

Yes, indeed, my last names ends in "yan". Yan/ian is is Armenian/Indo-European suffix which means "son of", showing "belongs to". . Like Vartanyan means "son of Vartan". It is also in other Indo-European languages, such as "Belgian" which means something which belongs to Belgium,etc.

The same way is the word "Aryan" which means something/people who belong to God of Armenian Highlands AR/ARA.

Armenians don't clusterr genetically with Persians, that is a fact.

Here you can see Armenians only clusrter with themsleves and the closest to us are Greeks, Persians genetically are very far from Armenians, they are near Kurds and Azeris...

http://armeniansworld.com/?tag=genetic-analyses

To know more follow most credible genetic blogs insluding Dienekes.


Ani 4 years ago

mikelong,

There is absolutyely evidence showing even a small part of Armenian nation migrating from anywhere.All historical, archeological, comparative linguistic and genetical evidences clearlu point out at the fact that all Armenians are indigeenous to Armenian Hihglands. Richard Hovhannisyan is indeed known as abig falsifier of Armenian History and it has been many times revealed. It is sad that many Armenians in US still are unaware of the fact and believe him...

Pre-History of the Armenians, Volume 3: The Anatolian Hieroglyphic Inscriptions of the Proto-Armenians

Volume 3 in the Pre-History of the Armenians series contains further ancient hieroglyphic inscriptions from southeastern Turkey. These are translated and annotated in full, and are accompanied by a comprehensive glossary. A number of crucial misapprehensions by scholars are corrected, and most importantly this study also explains the unknown phonetics of many signs found in Laroche's extensive catalogue of hieroglyphic glyphs published in 1960. Other sections include an analysis of the language of the inscriptions, which forms a bridge between the ancient Indo-European language and Classical Armenian, with examples demonstrating the development of the phonetics of words and the formation of augmentative suffixes. Also provided is an alphabetized list of transcriptions of these ancient words.

The linguistic evidence proves that since at least the eighth century BC the Hays (Armenians) possessed the scribal schools, temple records and gusans (minstrels) that are mentioned in the History of the Armenians, written during the fifth century AD by Moses Khorenatsi. The Vocabulary and Usage section highlights a number of words previously thought to be loans from other languages and confirms their indigenous status. Additionally, it confirms the provenance of other words, treasures from the long forgotten past that occur in the old lexicons and were considered doubtful. As with the previous Volume 2, each word is thoroughly explained and given its various usages in transcription for the benefit of the reader.

Other books by Gabriel Soultanian: The Pre-History of the Armenians, Volume 1; The Pre-History of the Armenians, Volume 2: The Proto-Armenian Hieroglyphic Inscriptions of Aram; The History of Bishop Sebeos: Redefining a Seventh-Century Voice from Armenia.

– 224 pages

– Published by Bennett & Bloom, August 2009


Ani 4 years ago

I guess it helps when so called "Urartian" inscriptions are decipheredd by people who actually speak Armenian. lol

This publication has been supported by a subvention from the "SPURK-DIASPORA Organization" (Los Angeles, USA).Special Thanks to Petros Daglyan and Ara Gasparyan.

Sargis Ayvazyan

Urartian

Armenian: lexicon and comparative-historical grammar. Yerevan State UniversityPress, 2011, 308 pages.

This work is the supplemented and amended revision of my previous two books -

“Cuneiform Inscriptions of Van Kingdom I, II” (2003) and (2

006). It also contains muchnew evidence and many observations. The section on Phonology is presented in acompletely new way.The book is devoted to the issue of the language of the Van cuneiform inscriptions:Urartian, and its interrelationship with Armenian. The common word roots are thoroughlydiscussed and the Urartian grammatical and phonetic systems are compared to those of Armenian. An attempt is made to present the historical-comparative grammar of theselanguages proceeding from the assumption that Urartian has, as its base, the Armenianlanguage.The book will be useful reading for specialists - Armenologists, Urartologists and thosereaders who are interested in the Van cuneiform inscriptions.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53429120/Urartian-Armeni...

Bare in mind that Dyakonoff who was the one to disconnect Armenian language from so called "Urartian" later on confessed in his book that he was hired by Azerbaijan to make Medeians their ancesters which he failed and rejected their job at the end.


Ani 4 years ago

Armenian language is the Armenic branch of the Aryano-Greco-Armenic (Collin Renfrew, Robert Drews, Quentin Atkinson, Russell Gray, Vyacheslav Ivanov, Tamaz Gamkrelidze etc.) that emerged from Armenian Highland and Anatolia. It is related to languages like the Indo-European Hittite (and other Indo-European Anatolian languages such as Luwian, Lydian etc.).

Quote:

This inference is supported by what is known about the portion of the Indo-European community that remained after the Anatolian family had broken away. From that community came the languages that persisted into written history. The first to branch off was the Greek-Armenian-Indo-lranian language community. It must have begun to do so in the fourth millennium B.C. because by the middle of the third millennium B.C. the community was already dividing into two groups, namely, the Indo-lranian and the Greek-Armenian. Tablets in the Hattusas archives show that by the middle of the second millennium B.C. the Indo-lranian group had given rise to a language spoken in the Mitanni kingdom on the southeast frontier of Anatolia that was already different from ancient Indian (commonly called Sanskrit) and ancient Iranian. Cretan Mycenaean texts from the same eras as Mitanni, deciphered in the early 1950?s by the British scholars Michael G. F. Ventris and John Chadwick, fumed out to be in a previously unknown dialect of Greek. All these languages had gone their separate ways from Armenian.

http://www.oocities.org/paris/leftba…onicle120.html

http://armeniansworld.com/?tag=armenian-language


Ani 4 years ago

As you see from the above and below quotes comparative linguistic puts the origin off Indo-European languages in Armenian Hihgland.

By resolving certain formulaic uncertainties in the methodology of Gray & Atkinson's phylogenetic approach to the reconstruction of the Indo-European language family, a new, independent study has reaffirmed the original findings, albeit with a slight chronological difference. Accordingly, and despite minimum estimation, the division of the Armeno-Greek branch of the Proto-Indo-Hittite mother tree can be confidently fixed no later than 6500 BC- meaning Armenian and Greek began to "behave" as distinct languages at least 8500 years ago.

...

De Morgan has said there are signs which show that the Armenians, as their other Aryan relatives, were nature worshipers and that this faith in time was later changed to the worship of national gods, of which many were the equivalents of the gods in the Roman, Greek and Persian cultures. The main proto-Armenian (Aryan) god was Ar, the god of Sun, Fire and Revival [4]. The Armenian hypothesis of Indo-European origins connects the name with the Ar- Armenian root meaning light, sun, fire found in Arev (Sun), Arpi (Light of heaven), Ararich (God or Creator), Ararat (place of Arar), Aryan, Arta etc.[5] According to the researchers, the name of Ardini religious center of ancient Urartu also related to the god Ar-Arda[6]. The cult of Ar appear in Armenian Highland during 5-3th millennium BC and had common Indo-European recognition: Ares (Greek), Ahuramazd (Persian) Ertag (German), Ram (Indian), Yar-Yarilo (Slavonic) etc. [7]. After adoption of Christianity the cult of Ar was also evident in Armenia, remembered in the national myth, poetry, art and architecture.

^5 # ? T. V. Gamkrelidze and V. V. Ivanov, The Early History of Indo-European (aka Aryan) Languages, Scientific American, March 1990; James P. Mallory, “Kuro-Araxes Culture”, Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, Fitzroy Dearborn, 1997.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Armenia

Jacques de Morgan (1857-1924) was a French civil engineer, geologist and archaeologist. He was the head of Antiquities in Egypt in the 19th century. He excavated in Memphis and Dashur, providing many drawings of many Egyptian pyramids.

....

Mikelong, if you speak Armenian now you know why you swear with SUN ( mamais ARev), papais ARev), now you know why up to now ARmenians call each other with "ara" and why we congratulate each other with "achkt LYUIS"...

...

Of course Ararat is Armenian word.

-Ararat-ARARich (? Creator in Armenian), ARARATz (Creature in Armenian)…

AR is the basics of common Armenian-Aryan extraction….

...

The name (Armenia) is connected to the Indo-European root Ar- meaning "assemble/create" which is vastly used in names of or regarding the Sun, light, or fire, found in Ararat, Aryan, Arta etc.[11]

# ^ T. V. Gamkrelidze and V. V. Ivanov, The Early History of Indo-European (aka Aryan) Languages, Scientific American, March 1990;[page needed] James P. Mallory, "Kuro-Araxes Culture", Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, Fitzroy Dearborn, 1997


Ani 4 years ago

Goes well with genetic evidence:

By reaching thousands of years into the past, this project also aims to find genetic traces of both the ancient peoples whose descendants make up the current Armenian population (Armens, Colchians, Hattians, Hayasa, Hayk, Hittites, Hurrians, Kaskians, Luwians, Mitanni, Mushkis, Pala, Phrygians, Urartians, etc.) and the ancient invaders who conquered or passed through the Armenian lands (Assyrians, Gamrik-Gimirri-Cimmerians, Galatian Celts, Greeks, Parthians, Romans, Scythians, Macedonians, Medes, Persians, etc.)

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ArmeniaDNAProj...

Peter Hrechdakian on “Armenian DNA Haplogroups: Ancient, Unique & Relevant”

Going over the more scientific aspects of the topic, Hrechdakian described how paternal and maternal lines could each be uncovered by studying a different part of our DNA. He showed that Armenians belong to 13 distinct genetic groups that go back tens of thousands of years, while at the same time there is no trace of invaders in their DNA in the last 4000 years, making them “homogeneous in their diversity.”

http://www.haigazian.edu.lb/NewsEvents/Pages/defau...

...

People have inhabited the Armenian Highlands since the Stone Age. The earliest possible record identified with Armenians, is from Armenic Sumerian records from around 2700 BC, in which the Armenians are referred to as the sons of Haya, after the regional god of the Armenian Highlands. Another early record from Akkadian inscriptions dated to 2300 BC, which mentions Armani together with Ibla, as territories conquered by Naram-Sin. Thutmose III of Egypt, also mentions the people of Ermenen in 1446 BC, and says in their land “heaven rests upon its four pillars” (Thutmose was the first Pharoah to cross the Euphrates to reach the Armenian Highlands).[1] Even to this day Kurds and Turks refer to Armenians by Ermeni. The first major state in the region was the kingdom of Ararat, which appeared around Lake Van in the thirteenth century B.C. and reached its peak in the ninth century B.C.The Hittite inscriptions from around 1,500 BCE record the history of the kingdom of Hayasa (with the root word Hay and the Hittite ending – “asa,” connoting a place) situated in Armenian Highland.


Ani 4 years ago

Khorenatsi also clearly states Armenians originate from Armenian Hihglands. Moreover, Khorenatsi's description of Hayk defeating Bel coincides with genetic studies confirming that Armenians have no traces of any invaders for the last 4.000 years, that is exactly when Hayk returned to Ararat.Isn't that amazing?

...

Hayk was a handsome, friendly man, with curly hair, sparkling eyes, and strong arms. He was a man of giant stature, a mighty archer and fearless warrior. Hayk and his people, from the time of their forefathers Noah and Japheth, had migrated south toward the warmer lands near Babylon. In that land there ruled a wicked giant, Bel. Bel tried to impose his tyranny upon Hayk’s people. But proud Hayk refused to submit to Bel. As soon as his son Aramaneak was born, Hayk rose up, and led his people back to the land of his forefathers, the land of Ararat. At the foot of the mountains, he built his home, Haykashen.[7]

7. # ^ (Khorenatsi, History\\ I.10–12)

...

Ararat is mentioned as early as ca. 6000 BC in the Sumerian epoch poem Gilgamesh, as the land of the mountains where the gods live. The word Ararat can be divided into three words: AR-AR-AT. AR-AR being a plural form or all encompassing god; 'AT' being an archaic version of the Armenian word 'hat', which means 'a piece of'. Thus Ararat meant 'a piece of gods, or a piece of creation.

"The first god in Armenia was one of the language's first sounds, 'AR', which means sun or light. As the source of life, the sun became equated with power and the supreme god.

You can see in this video screenshots which say Ararat is not a Hebrew word, it is borrowed, and another screenshot which shows Ararat is an Armenian word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94HpH18KvcA

As I have mentioned all archeological, comparative linguistic, historical,genetic evidence clearly show all Armenians are indigineous to Armenian Hihgland.

Bible also confirms that even though alone it can't be a proof since many don't beliieve in Bible.

...

Armenians have absolutely no trace of existance anywhere in the world but have all the proof od existance from the dawn of civilization in Armenian Hihgland...

Since Armenians are the only existing nation from ancient times many people inclusing some Armenians simply find it too good to be true, as simple as that.

All I can say to falsifiers: you can't achieve anything, the eevidence is here and overwhelming,I haven't even posted a quarter of it :D

to Armenians: grow guts to believe in greatness of your heritage, don't allow haters and falsifiers take away what YOUR ancestors have done for YOU...


Ani 4 years ago

I thought I am done here but then I saw KP's comment about Ahura Mazda and Aramazd.

KP, you are right.

8th century Armenian Araratian (Urartian) depiction of God emerging from the winged orb predates any Persian depiction of Ahura Mazda.

http://www.armenianhighland.com/images/nkarner/nka...

...

Some non related but interesting info...

” In Western Europe where Germanic culture dominated the aristocracy, family names were almost non-existent. They would not significantly reappear again in Eastern Roman society until the 10th century, apparently influenced by the familial affiliations of the Armenian military aristocracy.[4]”

^ a b Chavez, Berret (2006-11-09). “Personal Names of the Aristocracy in the Roman Empire During the Later Byzantine Era”. Official Web Page of the Laurel Sovereign of Arms for the Society for Creative Anachronism. Society for Creative Anachronism. Retrieved 2008-09-21.

There is a pic from another (Armenian) book here

http://armeniansworld.com/?tag=european-family-nam...

...


Ani 4 years ago

mikelong,

Africa theory is being disapproved by latest genetic studies.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47679951/ns/technology...

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx...

...

R1b is most common haplogroup in Western Europe. It is called:

R1b = Italic, Celtic, Germanic/ Hittite, Armenian

Toay’s news:

Late Neolithic “Bell Beaker” German burial reveals R1b M269+

M269 = R1b1a2*

Dienekes one more time confirmed that origin of “Western European” R1b is Armenian Highland which in broader term and erroneously they call “West Asia”…As you remember R1b is dominant haplogroup in Armenians and in our region only we have it s much as 28%-33%..(around Syunik-Artsakh(Karabakh) it reaches up to 40-50 % and lacks in many surrounding nations.

So we have another confirmation that R1b originated in Armenian Highlands and spread to Western Europe. :P

Have a look at the screenshot here

http://armeniansworld.com/?p=20566

...

Armenians are the source of main haplogroup in Caucasus G

As of 26 November 2011. FTDNA Armenian DNA Project.

G2a3a* M406+ L14- 2.4%

G2a* P15+ P16- M286- L30- 1.9%

G1a M285+ P20+ 1.6%

G2a3a1* M406+ L14+ L90+ 1.3%

G2a3a2* M406+ L14+ L645+ 1.1%

G2a3b1a* L141+ P303+ L140+ U1- 1.1%

G2a3b1a1* L141+ P303+ L140+ U1+ L13- 1.1%

G2a* P15+ Double DYS19 P16- M286- L30? 0.5%

G2a1a* P15+ P16+ P18+ DYS505=9 0.5%

G2a3b2 L177+ 0.5%

G2c M377+ 0.5%

G unclassifiable 0.3%

G2* P15- M287- M377- 0.3%

G2a3b1* L141+ P303+ L140- 0.3%

G2a3b1a1a* L141+ P303+ L140+ U1+ L13+ 0.3%

G2a4 L91+ 0.3%

...

It has been comfirmed by the last monnth studies again...

Quote

First, we calculated haplogroup diversity using data in Supplementary Table S1 for the 52 instances when total population sample size exceeded 50 individuals and Z5 hg G chromosomes were observed. Then we applied a 10% overall hg G frequency threshold and the additional specification that both haplogroup G1 and G2 lineages also be present. In the ten remaining populations, haplogroup diversity spanned from a low of 0.21 in Adyghes, to highs of 0.88 in Azeris (Iran) and 0.89 in eastern Anatolia and 0.90 in Armenia. We estimate that the geographic origin of hg G plausibly locates somewhere nearby eastern Anatolia, Armenia or western Iran.

Siiri Rootsi, Natalie M Myres, Alice A Lin, Mari Järve, Roy J King, Ildus Kutuev, Vicente M Cabrera, Elza K Khusnutdinova, Kärt Varendi, Hovhannes Sahakyan, Doron M Behar, Rita Khusainova, Oleg Balanovsky, Elena Balanovska, Pavao Rudan, Levon Yepiskoposyan, Ardeshir Bahmanimehr, Shirin Farjadian, Alena Kushniarevich, Rene J Herrera, Viola Grugni, Vincenza Battaglia, Carmela Nici, Francesca Crobu, Sena Karachanak, Baharak Hooshiar Kashani, Massoud Houshmand, Mohammad H Sanati, Draga Toncheva, Antonella Lisa, Ornella Semino, Jacques Chiaroni, Julie Di Cristofaro, Richard Villems, Toomas Kivisild and Peter A Underhill

Reposted by Dienekes

...

Pay attention at the most important parts, the location (Eastern Anatolia,Armenia,Western Iran (WestNorth Iran) are parts of Armenian Hihgland. Also, it appears only AzAris ( wrongly called Azeris in the artcile) have almost as high as Armenians and not Azeris from Azerbaijan which means they are not exactly the same nation as they claim. More on this here

http://armeniansworld.com/?p=20879

And I don't think there are many people left in the world who don't kow that most so called Eastern Anatolians are assimilated Armenians...

Are Turks acculturated Armenians?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/are...


mikelong profile image

mikelong 4 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

It all shows that there is much we don't know.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/are...


Ani 4 years ago

But we do know a big deal already and it all clearly points out at our Armenian Hihgland origin.

Btw, have you noticed how falsifications are being done? At the last link, in comment section a Kurd writes:

12. Corduene Says:

December 30th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

@Onur I agree and disagree. We know from very old Roman, Arab and jewish sources that Kurds lived traditionally even before in most of the Regions they are living now. Strabo the Roman Emperor described the Region between Mus, Diyarbakir and Zagros as Corduene. Jewish sources say that Ararat was located in Corduene in Armenia( carduchian land conquered by Armenian Kingdom) the Arabs at least clarified that this Corduene was the ancient name of Kurdish land calling it ekrad ( meaning in Arabic as Kurdistan they still use to call kurdish land Ekrad). It is true that Kurds coexisted peaceful with Turks and Armenians but it is not true that they expanded at the Ottoman empire. It is rather so that Armenians with Artaxias and Zariadris expanded from Caucasus over East Anatolia this is also written down by Strabo.

“According to report, Armenia, though a small country in earlier times, was enlarged by Artaxias and Zariadris, who formerly were generals of Antiochus the Great,”

http://soltdm.com/sources/mss/strab/11.htm

Now, if we check that link we can see how he took the words out of context, thee same is done by Georgian propaganda.

The original text clearly shows the landsat the expans of which Armenian Kingdom was enlarged spoke the very same language with Kingdom of Armenia, thus it clearly sshows Artaxaid was RETURNING Armenian spoken/Armenian lands...

According to report, Armenia, though a small country in earlier times, was enlarged by Artaxias and Zariadris, who formerly were generals of Antiochus the Great, {156} but later, after his defeat, reigned as kings (the former as king of Sophene, Acisene, Odomantis, and certain other countries, and the latter as king of the country round Artaxata), and jointly enlarged their kingdoms by cutting off for themselves parts of the surrounding nations,--I mean by cutting off Caspiane and Phaunitis and Basoropeda from the country of the Medes; and the country along the side of Mt. Paryadres and Chorsene and Gogarene, which last is on the far side of the Cyrus River, from that of the Iberians; and Carenitis and Xerxene, which border on Lesser Armenia or else are parts of it, from that of the Chalybians and the Mosynoeci; and Acilisene and the country round the Antitaurus from that of the Cataonians; and Taronitis from that of the Syrians; and therefore they all speak the same language, as we are told.

"and therefore they all speak the same language,"...

If you speak Russian you can see how this Armenian fraud selling fake passports to criminals for 37.000$ is honouring falsifier of Armenian history...

54-?????? ?????? ????????? ???? ?????????, ?????????? ? ??????????? ??????? ? ???-????????? ? ?????????? ? ??????????? ????????? ??????????, ? ??????????? ? ???? ??????? ???? ????. ?? ???? ???????? ?????? Glendale News Press. ????????? ?????????? ? ?????? ????????? ????? ?????????, ?????????? ??????????, ? ??? ????? ?????????? ????????????, ? ??????? ??????? ??? ???????? ??????????. ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ?? 5 ??? ??????? ???????. ?????????, ??? ??????? ????? ??????? ? ?????? ?????????? ????. ?? ????? ???? ???????? ??? 4 ??????????, ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????????? ????? ?????. ? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ??????? ? ???-????????? ?????? ???????, ????????? 3 ???? ??????. ???????? ?????????????? ?????????, ?? ????? ??????????? ??????? ? ???-????????? ???? ?????????? ????????? ???????? ????????? ?????. ????????, ??? ??? ??????? 5 ????? ????? ???? ??????? ?? $37 ????? ?? ??????.

?? ??? ????? ???? ????????? (?? ?????? ? ??????) ?? ????? ????????????? ?????? ??????? ????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????????????? ????????? ??????? "??????????" ?????? ????? (?? ?????? ?????), ??? ?????????????? ????????????...

http://husisapail.narod.ru/09sent2.htm

It's sad that to preserve our heritage we have to be vigillant not only to foreign falsifiers but even to our very own who can do many things for foreign money...

If we don't wake up and fight for our history/heritage other nations who claim pur lands will do, well, their propaganda has been doing for a long time, it is time for us to unite and preserve our own...


Ani 4 years ago

It explains why and how they falsify Armenian History. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6VrO2WBx4A&fb_sour...

There are parts 2 and 3 as well


mikelong profile image

mikelong 4 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

There are two completely different linguistic histories in the Armenian Plateau. One is clearly Asian, and the other is Indo-European.

It is quite clear that the Indo-European stratum came later.

http://rbedrosian.com/Classic/diakph10.htm

There are those who put a sense of nationalism before critical thinking. There are those who reshape religious dogma (Noah at Ararat) into something more... I have read about how the mountains of Ararat are "shaped like an ark" (since there is no actual ark there, it has to become a metaphor), and that life just burst out of that area.

There are scholars who put forward such nonsense. They are traitors to reason as opposed to Hovanissian being a traitor to the Armenian people.


mikelong profile image

mikelong 4 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

The argument that supporting a "salad bowl" mixture of peoples over time does not in any way justify anything any Turkish state has done. That is nonsense. The support of non-Indo-European speakers prior to the Armens arriving does not take away the Armenian kingdom and dynasties that we know existed.

The "with us or against us" mentality that many nationalists project is wrong.


Ani 4 years ago

Armenas have been in Armenian Highland from day one as all evidence including genetics testify. Anything else is indeed a treason to both reason and Armenian people and is against science.


Ani 4 years ago

Ancient Armenian Kingdom of Armani/Armanum

Armani/Armanum is mentioned in the inscriptions of Akkadian King Naram Suen (Sin) around 2,300 BCE.

Quote:

Naram-Sin recorded the Akkadian's wars against the Armani or Armeni people in Ararat. The Armeni is a reference to Armen who was the ruler of the Armenian tribe (Armen's followers, the Armenians [Uraštu in Akkadian language], were referred to as Armeni or Armens at the time). It is also unknown if Sargon, grandfather of Naram-Sin, and Manishtushu, father of Naram-Sin, also fought against the Armeni people of Ararat during their rule of the Akkadian Empire. It is highly probable however considering that Naram-Sin recorded multiple wars with the Armeni people of Ararat.

It is not known at this time if war with the Armeni people of Ararat contributed to the collapse of the Akkadian kingdom. However, the Akkadian Empire was already starting to crumble during the reign of Shar-kali-sharri, the son of Naram-Sin, and by the end of his reign the empire collapsed outright from the invasion of barbarians of the Zagros Mountains known as “Gutians.” Some speculate that a bad harvest, climactic change or even a giant meteor contributed to the decline.

http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/bible/timeline...


Ani 4 years ago

And to bring Dyakonoff who clearly wrote in his book he hiredd by Azerbaijan to make them descendants of Medians is just absured, especially ffor an Armenian. Why not to bring as evidence Azeri "scientists" then? lol


Ani 4 years ago

Besides, Dyakonoff was not Urartologist, he was Assyrologist and he only made supposition about Armenian language while Atkinson and Gray (leading British linguists) using comparative linguistics calculated the age of Armenian language which is by their estimate AT lEAST 8.5000 years old and they put origin in Armenian Hihgland.


Xachaturyan. 4 years ago

Dear Armenian brothers, lets stop lieing ourselves and others. Armenians first appeared in the South Caucasus (Transcaucasia) after the 2nd century B.C. Their aggressive activity against local states and peoples started with their settlement in these regions. At that time Armenians called the Armenian kingdom in the east of the Asia Minor the Great Armenia and tried to introduce the lands in which they settled as their own.

As a result of the defeat of Tigran the Second by the Roman Empire in 66 B.C the false legend about the Great Armenia failed and Armenians were turned into the vassals of the Roman Empire.


Ani 4 years ago

Azeri Turk/Georgian,

U don't really think if you use Armenian last name Khachaturyan we are going to fall for your propaganda here lol

Btw, I take it you are Georgian. You Georgians are obsessed with calling us Khachatur. And the way you use Russian X for KH indicates you are from ex USSR :D


annie 4 years ago

Dear Mike long,

I'm an Armenian born in Iran(Persia),I know a lot about these two cultures and history,I can assure you that Armenians are not persians.

You should do more research on these two civilization history.


Ani 4 years ago

The ancestors of the Persians originally lived in Armenia and out-migrated from the region between the lakes Van and Urmia sometime early in First Millenium BC. The strong Armenian- influence remained in Iran for many centuries and is most vividly represented in the early Iranian art and culture.

- Professor and expert on Iranian culture

Roman Ghirshman

GHIRSHMAN, ROMAN

(b. Kharkov, 1895; d. Budapest, 5 September 1979), French archeologist of Ukranian origin, one of the pioneers of archeological research in Persia where he spent almost thirty years excavating numerous sites.


Ani 4 years ago

MIHR-MITHRA: THE CHIEF DEITY OF THE ARMENIAN HEATHEN PANTHEON OF GODS

http://www.armeniansworld.com/mihr-mithra-the-chie...


Ani 4 years ago

THE ETYMOLOGY OF THE WORDS ARYAN AND ARMENIAN/ЭТИМОЛОГИЯ СЛОВ АРИЕЦ И АРМЯНИН

http://www.armeniansworld.com/the-etymology-of-the...


Everette 3 years ago

I just want to add , that by tracing everything I have been able to find , it seems that the land of Eden ( Adam and Eve) seems to be somewhere between Turkey , Georgia and Armenia . Eden was in the east and a river issues from Eden . It then it then divides and becomes four branches . Eden was to the east the river in Turkey starts close to the broader of Armenia and Georgia . It then winds to form a lake that divides into three rivers , but close by there is a forth . Remember the flood could have changed the river beds a little . Then they divide up to make 2 of the great rivers Tigris and Euphrates , Plus the other two . From what I can see armenia is part of Eden . A prophecy said and he shall trace his roots back to Armenia . Now it gets better . Geniuses has 2 stories of creation . The first man and his wife , Type O blood type . which science says is 150,000 years old . Now Enter Adam ( white) by Hebrew descriptions , type A blood type ( 6800 years old ) ( this matches science and the bible )now God breathed into this Adam and said subdue or rule the earth . After the fall Cain killed Able . Cain asked God to please protect him so that no one would kill him ( who ? All there was was Adam and Eve or was there? ) . So God marked him , enter B blood type . He moved eastward to the land of Nod (chinia) . There he married a wife . Where did she come from ? ( from the O blood type ) . He then begin building cities ( just him and his wife ?) . In china Cain is a very common name . They are also white . Then enter AB blood type . The sons of Seth (adans son also ) begin marring the sons of Cain . Now we have AB blood type . Please note that type O does not mix with A or B . It will always be A , B , AB or O . Now the tribes of Israel are white (from the Hebrews , sons of Adam ) . Look at the ruling faction running Israel now ( white ) White , blue eyed type A people can trace there roots back to Adam . The blushing people , by Hebrew description . I know this is totally different than what we have been told . But it is time for Israel to get ready your king is soon to appear . And he shall be from the tribe of Joseph and Judea . The blessing to Joseph was that the Shepard the stone of Israel , shall come from you . David was also promised that his line would always have a king . Judea was told he would always have a kingship until Shiloh came (Ephraim , Joseph's son ) . In Ephraim was also where the ark rested until David call for it to Jerusalem . The prophet was told to join the 2 sticks together ( Joseph and Ephraim ) . King Author was said to have done that . The union of the 2 tribes . So with all that said Armenia you have more to offer us than you realized .


Henrik 3 years ago

Very interesting reading. Unfortunate that egoism corrupts corrupts and biases science. The scientific method is the best tool available for all human endeavors. Currently, the best scientific method for this line of research seems to be genetic evidence. Linguistic and archeological evidence is inferior. But even genetic evidence should be gathered by unbiased researchers who don't have egoistic motivations while conducting their research, and then repeated repeatedly to reinforce or refute the findings of the original research and then evidence from other methodologies gathered to support or refute those findings. Even then, to what end? How is this line of questioning helpful to anyone? I am proud of aspects of my Armenian heritage and ashamed of others. I will continue to check in from time to time, but let's hope that other Armenians find material here to help them maximize their human potential. We all live in one world that is threatened by current trends of human behaviors, some of that evident here.


Ani 3 years ago

Everette,

Biblical maps who Armenia as the land of Eden...

1) Published by Dezauche and engraved by Marie F. Duval.

Detail from a Biblical map of the Middle-East by the French cartographer Philippe Buache published in Paris in 1783. Armenia is marked as “EDEN où était LE PARADIS TERRESTRE.

2)

Armenia, the birthplace of humanity and where humanity was saved from the flood, from a Gospel published in 1634 in London

3)

ARMENIA

The Land of the Biblical Paradise on the Earth,

from the famous John Wetstein Bible, Amsterdam, 1730

http://www.armeniansworld.com/tag/map-of-eden/


mikelong profile image

mikelong 3 years ago from The largest convict colony in the United States Author

To follow any of your logic, one would have to first actually believe in the Adam and Eve myth and the Bible.

For the rest of us, or those who realize that, at best, the story is symbolic as opposed to actual facts (as with all creation myths spanning the countless cultures that have come and gone from the face of the Earth over the minute span of time this planet and life has existed) there are other analysis and understanding to take in. Armenian-Christian racists (not that all of them are) are no different from the Aryan nonsense-minded crowd.


Ani 3 years ago

Genesis is full of prehistorian peoples stories. Namely Sumerian. And Sumerians were Armenian. Read book's description.

http://www.amazon.com/CIVILIZATION-ARMENIA-PRE-HIS...


Ani 3 years ago

Read here in the comments about Hittite, that's one of my blogs...

http://bsw-am.livejournal.com/633925.html


Berj Z. 3 years ago

Why denying the Bible seriously? The bible is a great historical book!

Armenians are the culturally and ethnically inheritors of natives of the Armenian highlands ie Urarteans, Hurrians, Hittites, Mitanni and later with other Indo-Europeans such as Western-Mushki, Cimmerians and Scythians.

We had foreign rulers thats not a surprise (Saka's too) since we are the emergence of Araratian and indo-European tribes, is this hard to understand?

My point is, these indo-European peoples and ethnic-Urartians have merged and gave birth to the Armenian nation and the timeline patterns proves that.

After the Cimmerian invasion and Phrygian/Urartean destruction, those of Phrygian-Mushki moved Eastwards After pushed by Cimmerians and settled near Urartu/Armenia which will later merge together with other remnants of Indo-Europeans (Hittite,Mitanni etc..) and Urartians and give birth to the Armenian nation.

There is no surprise why did ancient Armenian historians calls Armenians as (Torgomian azk, Askanazian Azk) Which means Nation of Togarmah & Ashkenaz.

We must not forget that Askanaz (Ashkenaz) too was considered our ancestor along with Torgom (Togarmah).

Note: The Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture notes that "the Armenians according to Diakonoff, are then an amalgam of the Hurrian (and Urartians), Luvians and the Proto-Armenian Mushki (or Armeno-Phrygians) who carried their IE language eastwards across Anatolia."

Best regards.


A? 3 years ago

Dudes, seriously, look at the faces in Armenia, Iran, Irak, Georgia ...they all look the same to the European eye. What does that tells you about genetics..????


Pap tagavor 2 years ago

Look at the faces of Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese


hi-high-hays 2 years ago

"While I am Armenian, I do not see Armenians as solely indigenous to the plateau".........lol

"James Russell".......lololololololololololollllllllll

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working