Can Science Prove God Exists or Does Not Exist? -- Did you know? There Is No Such Thing As Gravity

Some People Claim Their Theory That God Does Not Exist Is Based On Science

Some people who read me regularly have figured out that I am especially fond of researching common beliefs in order to determine if those beliefs are based in fact, wishful thinking, superstition, or what used to be referred to as ‘old wives tales.’

Just for the fun of it, I thought I would see how many of the scientific facts that I learned in my younger years have been modified or changed because it turned out they were not facts after all.

Beginning My Research On How Often Science Has Been Wrong

Records show that from the 6th century B.C. until sometime in the 3rd century B.C., wise men (scientists, philosophers, etc.) all over the world believed the Earth was flat. They were the brilliant knowledgeable men of their time and they were convinced that a flat Earth was FACT.

As recently as the Dark Ages (a period from roughly 476 A.B. to 1500 depending on who you are talking to -- some scholars believe that period ended sooner), people in power were so convinced that the earth was flat that they even killed people back then who disagreed with them!

Indeed, they were the learned men of their time using the most modern scientific information and technology of their day and convinced that they knew all that mattered about the Earth’s shape as a result. My! What a lot of arrogance these people unknowingly had given how backward they were compared to the modern science of today!

Does Today's Modern Science Have All the Answers?

Sometime around the 3rd century B.C. some scientists were no longer buying the FACT that the Earth was flat. For many more centuries thereafter the wise men of the time were no longer in agreement, some continuing to believe the Flat Earth Theory, while other wise men had come to believe the Earth was spherical.

Columbus sailed from Spain to the Americas in 1492, but he did not prove the Earth was round. He only proved that there was land on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean from Spain.

According to Wikipedia, Spherical Earth, “A practical demonstration of Earth's sphericity was achieved by Ferdinand Magellan and Juan Sebastian Elcano’s expedition's circumnavigation (1519−1521)” So after many, many centuries it seems the question of whether the Earth was flat or spherical was finally settled in 1520 or so.

Despite the most learned men of the time determining that it was a FACT that the Earth was flat way back in the 6th century B.C., had they been alive 2120 years later, they would have had to concede they were WRONG.

Today's Superior Science That Non-Believers Rely On

Today is different, of course. Times have changed greatly. Today scientists, and people in general, are so much better informed, so much better educated and knowledgeable, and our technology is so much more superior than it was 2120 years ago that we no longer have to worry that we might get something wrong.

We just always get it right these days because our science is far, far superior. It would not be exaggerating to say that we have almost all of the answers about everything on our planet that matters and so we are not far from the time when we can sit back and bask in our great achievements. Would you not agree?

That seems to be what the wise men 6 centuries B.C. believed too, but they were wrong. Of course we are not wrong in our modern times because we are much more advanced and really do know what we are talking about compared to those old guys . . .

For some of my readers, it is probably necessary to explain here, that I am being facetious with the above statements. Facetious is another word for sarcastic or humorous -- not serious.

Science Has Determined We Have More Taste Buds Than Originally Believed

It turns out we have 6 different types of taste buds, not just 4, and they are scattered all over our tongues, not just confined to specific areas.
It turns out we have 6 different types of taste buds, not just 4, and they are scattered all over our tongues, not just confined to specific areas. | Source

A Science Omission?

Do you remember when we learned in elementary science, in the second grade or so, that there are four different tastes? Yes, and they were (are) sweet, bitter, sour, and salty.

Well, according to PBS.org, Need To Know on PBS, scientists determined that “Receptors on the tips of our tongues were supposed to be sensitive to the sweet taste. Salt and sour were on the sides, and bitter was supposed to light up the back. Turns out, that’s all a lie based on a century-old misconception that no one bothered to challenge until 1974. Actually, the entire tongue is sensitive to all of those tastes.”

If that is not enough, it turns out that there are 2 additional tastes we did not learn about in the second grade! The reason we did not learn about those tastes even though we were living in modern enlightened times, is that we did not know about them at that time -- but we knew everything else about our world. The taste buds thing was just a little slip-up from an otherwise impeccably all knowing science. (More facetiousness.)

One taste we did not learn about in our second grade science class is called “Umami” and described as “savory” and it is said to be what makes “bacon and soy sauce so delicious,” and the other taste is that of fat, which is reported by scientists to have a “distinct flavor” of it’s own.

Scientists sure got that one wrong didn’t they? Now it is corrected and all is perfect again in the world of science and we can go back to setting everything scientists tell us in stone. (More facetiousness.)

There Is No Such Thing As Gravity

There is one more thing. Just a small thing really. Again referencing PBS.org, Need To Know on PBS, states, “University of Amsterdam physics professor Erik Verlinde takes issue with gravity as a fundamental force. He’s not the first to do this — Einstein wreaked havoc with Newtonian physics a century ago — but he’s [Erik Verlinde] one of the most recent to provoke heated discussion. Verlinde told a New York Times reporter, ‘“We’ve known for a long time gravity doesn’t exist. It’s time to yell it.”’ In other words, Verlinde says it is time to inform people of this new science FACT that we have known since Einstein’s time [approximately 105 years now]. There is no such thing as gravity.

OK, so that is not such a small thing. What we have all been taught and believed all of our lives about gravity is a big thing. It was still wrong -- just one more thing that science is having to change, because science was WRONG. That should take care of the misconceptions science has made, because science rarely get anything wrong in our modern times. (Yes, more facetiousness.)

Einstein's Theory of Gravity

The warping of space and time
The warping of space and time | Source

More About Gravity

National Geographic News reported on May 5, 2011 that 2 of Einstein’s key predictions on his Theory of Relativity (which includes a different explanation of ‘gravity’ than we were taught (and are still being taught incorrectly) were proven or confirmed by Nasa’s Gravity Probe B Mission that was launched in 2004. That means that we are halfway to proving or confirming that Newton’s theory of gravity was WRONG and that Einstein’s Theory regarding gravity, which is part of his Theory of Relativity, is RIGHT. For more information on this Gravity Probe B, please see the reference section at the end of this article.

The following videos will explain Einstein’s theory on how gravity really works. These videos have visuals that make the explanation far more understandable and less complicated than anything I could possibly write. Viewing these videos will help you to update your knowledge about gravity to what scientists now believe.

Einstein's Theory of Gravity Comes to Life

Explanation of Einstein's Theory of Relativity, Gravity, and Acceleration

Oops, I Found Another Fact That Science Has Recently Changed!

This next subject will certainly be the end of all the corrections that science has had to make. Then we can get on with why science is so dependable with FACTS in our modern day and age.

For those too young to remember, many of us learned that what was believed to be our ninth planet, Pluto, was discovered in 1930. Very modern times compared to when the issue of whether Earth is flat or spherical was settled. Well, it seems science has backtracked on that too.

Pluto was demoted back in 2006 to being not a planet, but a plutoid. In addition, 2 more dwarf planets were discovered in 2005 that are both bigger than Pluto! Ceres, and Eres are their names. Did you know about them? Well, that should be about it for science changing their FACTS . . .

Science often changes its FACTS

Except for fruit bats, all bats have exceptional eyesight.  Fruit bats have poor eyesight, but they can see.
Except for fruit bats, all bats have exceptional eyesight. Fruit bats have poor eyesight, but they can see. | Source

Not Another Change of Facts! Yes, Afraid So . . .

I feel so silly telling you that we have uncovered all of the facts that science actually got wrong and has had to change only to discover there is still another one! I’m sure this is the last of the modern science boo-boos. My fingers are crossed here, hoping that this will be the last one.

When I went to school it was a scientific fact that all bats were blind. It was believed that they depended entirely on echolocation to find their way around. Well, during the course of home schooling my daughter when she was about 5 years old (just over 20 years ago), we learned that in FACT, bats -- except for fruit bats, which have poor eyesight -- do in FACT have excellent eyesight! Imagine getting that WRONG.

Turns out the science researcher who came to the conclusion about all bats being blind was sloppy in her methods and so the results were WRONG. Can you believe a scientist was sloppy and got something wrong as a result? I thought scientists never bungled anything or did shoddy work.

I commend those scientists who came forward and admitted that shoddy work by a scientist was what happened in this case. Hopefully most scientists are conscientious and take their work seriously. Even so, it is good every once in a while to know there are scientists who are human and recognize that fact, realizing they are fallible and do not have all the absolute correct answers to everything at this time.


Miscalculations and Modifications

Like George Washington, I cannot tell a lie. The truth is that there are just too many things that science has been WRONG about to list here. It would require a book. Science is always having to change its FACTS and modify its theories and beliefs.

In FACT, a lot of scientists have told me as much. My science professor back in 2010 stated before our class of 150 students that science is not set in stone. New technology, new research, and as a result, new discoveries continually require science to modify and sometimes totally CHANGE what were once believed to be scientific FACTS.

So it really is not surprising that scientific FACTS are continually changing as new information and discoveries are made. In FACT, it would be more peculiar if that were not so.

Additional Research, Time and Technology, Bring New Discoveries

Just as the wise men, scientists and philosophers in their time, 6 centuries B.C. did not know that disease is caused by bacteria and viruses because they could not see those tiny creatures because microscopes had not yet been invented, so there are no doubt things in our world that we do not yet know are here. (Germs and viruses discovered and proven to exist in the late 19th century.)

Arrogance does not equal intelligence or education. The smartest, most informed people will always tell you that even with all they know, there are a thousand times more things and more information they do NOT know.

The more a person knows, the more that person realizes they do NOT know. Truly knowledgeable educated people are never so arrogant as to imagine they have all the answers about much of anything.

While science has made some great progress in treating diseases, at the same time science is not perfect. Once we were told that eating eggs was unhealthy. For years many people separated their eggs and only ate the egg whites because science said the egg yolk was unhealthy for our hearts.

For years we were taught that palm oil was the worst thing for us – a heart attack looking for a place to happen. Now we are told it is healthy for us. Science cannot seem to make up its mind. Yes, and recently coffee has been taken off the evil list and is now considered healthful and helpful in fighting off Alzheimer’s Disease and dementia!

While science is an important part of our lives on this planet, sometimes doing amazing things that improve our lives, it also has to backtrack often and modify or change what we were led to believe were FACTS because of new information or discovery that someone did sloppy or deceptive research work that really proved nothing.

There are still many things scientists do not have answers for, among them cures for major diseases like cancer, diabetes, and more. All these things are complicated for our intelligence and intellectual progress, which is why after many years of research we still do not have cures, but they are simple compared to proving whether or not God exists.

Theories Do Not Equal Facts No Matter How Many People Believe Them

Evolution is NOT a FACT. Evolution is a THEORY. Theories are not facts. Theories are better described as ideas or beliefs, which may or may not be proven true at some future point. Showing some mathematical configurations that look great on paper may in fact have little or no relevance in practice.

Any builder knows that what architects using equations and formulas draw on paper, sometimes does not work in practice. Architects often have no hands on experience for actually building anything. They draw their plans entirely by mathematical formulas they have learned.

The theory of gravity that has now been determined to be WRONG, was and is still a theory, and it was based on mathematical configurations that have since been determined to be WRONG. If science can’t get physical things right, like whether or not bats are blind, or how many taste buds we have, how can it hope to be even close to accurate in trying to determine things with mathematics and no physical evidence or proof?

Theory

Here are two definitions of “theory” from Diciontary.reference.com

1. a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine.

2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. Synonyms: idea, notion hypothesis, postulate. Antonyms: practice, verification, corroboration, substantiation.

Theories Are As Likely to Be Wrong As They Are to Be Right

Since the Newtonian theory of gravity is said to have been proven WRONG, it seems possible that many other theories are WRONG also. With no physical proof, it seems likely that many scientific theories could be wrong if put into practice.

You may remember that just a few paragraphs up I referenced National Geographic News stating that scientists freely admit that Einstein’s Theory about gravity has only had 2 points proven so far, and those were proven recently. Therefore I fail to see where Dictionary.reference.com feels justified in saying Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, which includes his theory about gravity, is proven. It almost seems like Theories are considered FACT and then discredited by the scientific community on a whim since in most cases none have been proven before they are replaced by still another unproven theory!

There is so much about our world that we do not know. So much that we have not yet discovered. Yet so many people arrogantly believe we have reached our pinnacle of knowledge and that we have all the information we now need to know everything worth knowing about our world. The ancient wise men thought that same thing when they insisted that planet Earth was flat. Despite all of our advances, we still do not seem to have learned the lesson of overconfidence and arrogance in the face of ignorance.

Perhaps people are correct in thinking we have reached our pinnacle, but our pinnacle may well be far short of the brain power needed to know all there is to know about our world.

Turns out, scientists were wrong to believe that the Newton theory of gravity was a FACT. Scientists were wrong to believe that all bats are blind because of the careless work of one of their own. Scientists were wrong to believe we knew everything there was to know about our taste buds. Except for the theory of gravity, all these examples are very simple things compared to many other mysteries in our world.

I think blindly accepting the theory of evolution or imagining that we now have reached the pinnacle of our knowledge and can prove positively that God does or does not exist is quite simply poppycock. Arrogance unplugged.

Science Is Still Too Imperfect to Prove That God Does or Does Not Exist

Science is an imperfect study in progress that is continually revising and changing FACTS. Perhaps far into the future we may develop some sort of technology that will allow us to prove that God does in FACT exist.

I think it behooves us to put egg on our faces still again, by accepting as facts, things that may well change in the future as more information is obtained and new discoveries made. The same egg that used to be considered unhealthy because of Scientific FACT, but now is healthy – also due to scientific FACT.

It is far too early in our development (evolution?) to say God cannot exist because our imperfect indecisive science based on imperfect, often flawed human intelligence, cannot prove God exists.

Opinion

Personally, I plan to continue with the tried and true. God has proven to me that He does in FACT exist. He has proven His existence to my satisfaction, and as you see from this hub, I am not easily convinced of anything.

No, I cannot prove to you why I believe God not only exists, but that Jesus Christ also exists and is alive and in charge today. I know why, and proof has been furnished to me. You can believe me or not. Either way, life goes on. I promise I will lose no sleep if you choose not to believe me. God may furnish you proof one of these days also – or not.

You are welcome to believe what you feel you must believe regarding this issue of whether God exists or not. However, if you are going to attempt to sway my loyalty away from the all powerful God I know personally, you will have to have more to back up your insistence that God does not exist than imperfect science that changes its FACTS continually, almost from one day to the next.

You will need more than some scratch marks on paper that pass as a theory. You will need FACTS. Hard FACTS. Not conjecture, not opinion, and not the ever-changing scientific FACTS.

After researching the subject of how often science has been wrong or had to modify its findings, science has lost a good deal of its credibility with me. I think it is more akin to politics – flip-flopping, if you know what I mean. If I could find so many instances where science has been WRONG in just the last 2 hours, what might I find if I expanded my research to the science library at the university for another 3 days?

Just as in ancient times people did not believe the sun had risen if they could not see it, so atheists do not believe God exists because they cannot see Him. In FACT, the sun rises every morning, but we cannot always see it because clouds obscure it. There was a time when people did not realize that, but today we know that the sun is there and if we could rise above the clouds we would see it. We may well see God one day too, when we are able to see beyond our mental and physical limitations.

In the meantime, I recommend persons who do not believe God exists take responsibility for their beliefs instead of trying to blame science or anything else. Just admit you believe what you believe because you believe it. Yes, circular reasoning, but it makes as much sense as what you already claim to believe -- that a science that has no cure for cancer, diabetes, or a host of other ailments can prove whether or not God exists. The suggestion that a science that must backtrack, modify, or totally change its FACTS continually, has the ability at this time to prove God does or does not exist is simply ludicrous.

Primary References

PBS.org

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/five-things/grade-school-science/2705/


NASA

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/04may_epic/


National Geographic Daily News: Einstein Theories Confirmed by NASA Gravity Probe

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/05/110505-einstein-theories-confirmed-gravity-probe-nasa-space-science/

© 2012 C E Clark

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Comments 168 comments

ValKaras profile image

ValKaras 8 weeks ago from Canada

C.C. - I can perfectly understand and accept your devotion to Bible as a word of the "ultimate truth", and nothing that follows is about the Bible itself, but about people.

Personally, I believe in the universal intelligence, but I am not ascribing to it any of the qualities suggested by any organized religion. Meaning that I am not an expert in either Bible, or Quran, or any other holy book for that matter, and as such I will not try to knock down something that I know nothing about.

So let's talk a bit about people, as in that kind of discussion I feel much more "at home". We must agree that this western culture is predominantly Christian, regardless of different denominations. and there are many among doctors and shrinks who are devoted believers in Bible's teachings.

And yet, when patients need help, or they themselves need a help, these fine scholars are not using either spiritual healing or exorcism, but that same science which we like to call "still not having the final answers, therefore incomplete and still searching".

Since, according to believers "all answers about human nature are somewhere in those pages of Bible", it should also be the main reference book in dealing with those matters of human nature which can't be found in any textbooks of science. By the way, don't mind my disagreeing, but science is not "merely about the material world". We call psychology and psychiatry something like a "science" about mental processes, phenomena, and causalities within them - not merely a "theory". I hope we can agree about the fact that this science is covering everything mental and emotional - including the mind's function of "believing".

So, it would be fair to say that there are highly educated scholars, more educated and advanced in matters of "believing" than you and I will ever be, who have a divided opinion about Bible, which both studied in every detail. Some are not taking Bible seriously even one bit, regardless of the fact that they can't be exactly called "ignorant". They studied it with an open mind, and just couldn't find a justification to join the believers.

Of those scholars who do believe, none can really say from a logical perspective "why" they believe - it's simply something that they intuitively have as an intellectual preference. Just like those highly intelligent folks in Iran are opting for their own god and holy book.

None of them is an "ordinary and ignorant Joe or Jane", but individuals with some fine minds. And yet they disagree in matters of faith - unlike scientist would disagree about mathematics in Iran and in the USA.

My point being, that we don't have to be necessarily immoral individuals starting wars, violence, injustices of any kind - and still not ever take a peek into the pages of any holy book in the existence. Nobody really knows if morality is a part of our default, inherent nature, like mother's love is present in both humans and in animals.

It's been proven time and time again that devoted religious believers are not exempt from sicknesses, both mental and physical, so a question of a pragmatic nature may be asked : What is really an advantage of reading Bible, if peace of mind, happiness, morality, love, and harmony in relationships can be found outside of any religious belief?

Personally, I have been happily married for 50+ years, never raised voice on my wife, and the wedding was at a city hall of a communist country, not in a church. I fancy to be a highly spiritual dude, cultivating all these human qualities which apparently are only reserved for those who kneel and believe.

Now, again, it is within my spiritually based attitudes to accept anybody's belief system, and there is no competition there. This comment was simply inspired to show how - regardless of my total ignorance about any holy book I can live in harmony with the humanity and even enjoy a robust health as a bonus.

I hope this comment is not categorized and misinterpreted as a "typical non-believer's mambo-jumbo" or something, because I am not propagating atheism, just taking the freedom to share my own views.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 8 weeks ago from North Texas Author

ValKaras, thank you for sharing your thoughts. If you read the entire article you will see that I am not bashing science as it has made huge improvements in most of our lives. I am only saying, as you are, that science by its nature is always having to go back and make modifications and corrections as new information is discovered.

While it no doubt seems like we have made huge strides with science, in fact we have barely scratched the surface when it comes to explaining everything in our world, how it came to be, how it works, why it doesn't work sometimes, etc. We are nowhere near curing the common cold, diabetes, schizophrenia, and countless other problems in our environment let alone proving God's existence or nonexistence.

The Bible covers all things and there is no reason for it to change. The problem with religion is not religion itself, but the wrong interpretations of the human mind. Hardly anyone reads the Bible with an open mind. All seem to read it with the intent of finding reference for what they want to believe and how they wish to conduct their lives. In short, most people are looking for validation for being idiots and assholes, and it just isn't in there.

Wrong interpretation of the Bible by humans, usually arrogant pompous humans, is to blame for religious wars and discontent of every kind. Some people just can't be happy unless they can look down on someone or something else, and so they pick out Bible verses that seemingly to their tiny minds condone their provincial ideas and their arrogant ignorance.

God gave everyone a free will. He is not to blame that some people choose to use their free will to do ugly cruel things to other living things. Neither is He to blame that some people prefer to remain ignorant rather than to learn the true meaning of the things in the Bible. If everyone truly followed the Bible and interpreted it accurately, there would be no war and no reason for war or for any of the other ugly things that humans can control in this world.

However, as I stated in this article, people are free to believe whatever they wish so far as I am concerned. That is the law in this country, and that is in accordance with the free will God gave every human. I don't believe in forcing my beliefs onto others and I don't care to have theirs forced onto me.

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts.


ValKaras profile image

ValKaras 2 months ago from Canada

Great hub CC! Luckily, science keeps updating itself, unlike religion that sticks to its dogma. It's terrible for the mind when it lacks enough flexibility to consider a possibility that it might be wrong. I like what one pilot said about the "correct" course during a flight - apparently planes are some 90-something % of the time off their course. So, there is nothing embarrassing about science being wrong at any particular moment of its evolvement - it's still advancing in generally right direction. Religion was taking altogether a wrong course "when it left runway". - Thank you for sharing.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 months ago from North Texas Author

Jackclee Im, thank you for checking this article out. I did state herein that science has accomplished a lot of things that make our lives better everyday, but it is still in the stages of redefining its 'facts,' because we are still in the process of making new discoveries that effect those facts. It will be a while before science can determine the existence -- or not -- of God. There is still much to learn before that will be possible.


jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 3 months ago from Yorktown NY

Well written article. The nature of science is that periodically, we make progress...

More things to change including theory of evolution, climate change, and peak oil...


Au fait profile image

Au fait 15 months ago from North Texas Author

Motherbynature, thank you for commenting. So glad you liked this article. Poor reading comprehension would seem to be a serious and chronic problem for lots of people in this country so it's no surprise some people on HP suffer from it also. Cognitive challenge seems to be another problem . . .


Au fait profile image

Au fait 15 months ago from North Texas Author

Tarkan Bulan, thank you for your visit. Having a personal relationship with God I have no such questions as you mention in your comment. I am for letting people believe whatever they want to so long as they don't try to force their beliefs onto me. So I wish you well in your search to discover the one and only true God of Heaven. May you have an enlightening and peaceful journey.


Motherbynature profile image

Motherbynature 15 months ago from Los Angeles, CA

Excellent article. From the looks of the comment section, your next article should be on the lifelong effects of poor reading comprehension.


Tarkan Bulan 15 months ago

You are 99% correct :) what about 1% :)

In case science will prove in unknown time period that God Allah Yehova etc exist then we will be able to ask him why he has chosen mostly middle eastern tirbes to reveal holly rules.

Mean time, how many lives will be lost in order to protect clerics and their financers?

Muslims and Jews dont even question about non existance of omnipotent creator and the omnipotent creator has chosen 2 individuals. Well, both sides have unchanged rules and strories. Keep going on killing field enlargement.

Cristians is an other issue :) no written book but a comission decision at iznik has decided to best written texts were omnipotent power sent :)

What will change if God is an alien entity doing scientific research on genetics here 4th planet or a alien civilization is planting resources for future harvesting for their unknown needs (Noah).

If God is responsible of creating 4th planet fauna and why didnot he/she has given written instructions? Maybe God has died after ceeating?

Can you also investigate and search on religions atructures, atrocities and opium effect on ignorant population :)

Best wishes

Tarkan Bulan

Tarkanbulan@gmail.com


Au fait profile image

Au fait 19 months ago from North Texas Author

Adagio4639, thank you for your comments. You make a very good point.


adagio4639 profile image

adagio4639 19 months ago from Brattleboro Vermont

The answer is no. Science deals with the material world. "God" is not of the material world. There is nothing in Science that would be able to test for the existence of God, since every test would be for material existence. You can't use science to test the metaphysical. It deals with the physical.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Shyron, thank you for coming by and voting on and sharing this article. I like the barber story. I think people forget that everyone isn't the same and some people can understand certain things better than other people can. Instead of a person assuming that the reason they can't understand something is because something is wrong with the something, maybe they should ask themselves if something is wrong with their comprehension.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Shyron, thank you for stopping by and voting, sharing, etc., and for your high compliment. Yes, the comments section of most hubs are often as interesting as the article itself, not only this one.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Diogenes, so glad all is well with you. Glad 'they' figured out what was wrong and have you on a plan that makes you feel better than you have in a long time.

Should all blind people imagine, and state emphatically, that those of us who say we can see are full of poop? Not one of them can see any of the things we describe or claim to be able to see, and so it figures that we are all liars and making things up because they cannot see what we see no matter what they do.

I'm sorry God has not seen fit to show Himself to you, or that you have not seen fit to be open to His outreach to you, whichever the case may be, but to assume that no one can understand something just because YOU can't understand it is a pure definition of arrogance.

I do not understand how to fly a jet plane, and have never ridden on one. Therefore jet planes do not exist and anyone who says they do -- or worse, claims to have ridden on one, is funny in the head, and making up tall stories for who knows why? Obviously people who think jet planes exist are hallucinating, and I can't imagine any intelligent, sane person believing they do exist. Some of us know better than you poor schmucks who feel the need to create something greater than yourself, and from everything I've heard, these 'jet planes' are monstrous in size.

Does this give you an idea of how arrogant and ludicrous you sound to people who are not atheists?

In fact it is atheists who stated in the forums that science has proven God does not exist and I copied and pasted those statements in the comments section of this article. I did it just for you and I guess you forgot. They're still there. Read them.

No cherry picking allowed. I said Can Science Prove God Exists or Does Not Exist? However you want to characterize it. No, you cannot prove a negative. Inform your atheist friends who made the statements above of that fact. :)

Very glad you are not only OK, but much better. Take care, and try not to get struck by lightening . . . ;)


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

Au fait, your comments/commenters are almost as interesting as you article, and I have to come back to refresh every once in a while.

This is a well researched hub as anyone who reads it can see or read.

Voted up, UAI and shared.

Shyron


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

With all due respect Mr. Wall, I hate assumptions. They are almost always wrong, and so I avoid them.

Mr. Wall, I have NASA as a source for this article. Are you saying there is a more credible source than NASA? Did you even check the references/sources for this article?

I keep asking because no matter what I say, you just come back with the same response, like a parrot. As though you have read nothing I wrote. When you keep parroting the same old thing no matter what I write, that you know of no explanation for gravity that is different than the one you have always known, a rational person could conclude that you have not read this article or the comments I wrote directed specifically to you. This article includes videos that explain another theory -- Einstein's Theory of gravity. If as you say you have not heard of any other theory than the one you have always known then you have not watched the videos or read this article in its entirety.

Are you aware that modern GPS systems and devices are based on Einstein's Theory of Gravity? Do you even know who Einstein was? Again, I ask because you just keep parroting the same thing, and in your last comment you say I do not have enough references to back up MY theory of gravity. Why do you think it is my theory?

You keep saying you know nothing about any other theory of gravity than the one you learned decades ago, and yet I have 2 videos in this article that explain Einstein's Theory of gravity and I pointed that out to you in my last comment. It is as though you didn't read that far because you say you know of no other theory of gravity than the one you have always known despite my pointing you to the videos in this article twice.

Here is the title of one of my sources that YOU say isn't good enough: Einstein Theories Confirmed by NASA Gravity Probe. This document is distributed online by NASA.

Appreciate your continued interest in this article Mr. Wall, but you seem determined to hang onto your old ideas even though NASA, whom you claim to hold as credible, has determined those old ideas are wrong. You can believe anything you want to Sir, and it's OK with me. Truly. :)


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

So good to hear from you Bobby! I've been wondering what happened to you and people have been asking me about you. Hope you are much better and will come back with your spicy humor again. I've missed you and I'm guessing other people do too, or why would they ask where you've gone? Really hope all is well with you now. Still have a lot of comments to go and will be over to check your articles out soon, so take care . . . xoxox


diogenes 2 years ago

I'm baaaack! In a recent comment, you stated that science could not prove god does not exist. Wearily, I protest, science cannot prove a negative, and has no interest in doing so, merely pointing out the illogic of inventing things to "believe" in. I am totally convinced there is no space in the mind of a truly intelligent being to store metaphysical rubbish, be it gods, devils or all the other tripe. Maybe there won't be 33 virgins waiting for me "up there." What a relief!

ps. Hi au fait. I have been ill and in hospital for three weeks but am better now. Hope you are fine.

bob xoox


Larry Wall 2 years ago

You are making assumptions. There is a force that keep our feet to the ground. As I said I do not know the science behind it. We call it gravity. When someone comes us with a better name I will use it. Until then, I and NASA will refer to it as gravity.

I am not interested in Science trying to prove the existence of God. As I stated in many hubs and comments, I cannot prove it. I just accept it as a matter of faith. I believe God created the universe. I believe his son Jesus died on the cross in forgiveness of my sins, thus assuring me of an eternal life when by earthly existence comes to an end I believe many brilliant people are inspired by God.

I believe that something that appears logical can be accepted until someone disproves it. I use to work for the oil and gas industry. In 1940, it was predicted the U.S. oil supply would be consumed in a matter of years. That was before offshore production found its niche. Not too many years ago it was thought the world was running out of oil. When the advances in fracking and producing shale oil, the United States stands to become a major exporter of oil.

When Jimmy Carter was president, it was believed the nation was running out of natural gas. A law was enacted prohibited the building a new gas-fired power plants. So in Louisiana, where a lot of oil and gas comes through our state, we have a power plant in the middle of the state that runs on Coal. Trains go back and forth everyday, bring coal from Wyoming to Louisiana. Mistakes are made. However, it every case I just mentioned those conclusions were based on the evidence at hand. Thus, I will continue to believe in Gravity. Something holds us to the earth. We can stimulate weightlessness and we have seen men make leaps on the moon's surface that we cannot do here on earth. There is gravity. How it works is beyond my ability to determine or explain.

You do good work. However, for a statement like you made about gravity, you need more sources than what you presented.

Also, do not assume that I did not read your article in full. I did.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Larry Wall and mbuggieh, thank you for your several visits to this article.

It seems to me, that you are both attempting to take the focus off the real subject of this article (can science prove or disprove God) by going down rabbit trails of semantics. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Scientists have been wrong about a lot of things and still don’t have the absolute once and for all right answers to much if anything.

Call them mistakes, errors, or anything you like. Call them tulips, cabbages, or even pickles, but what it boils down to is that science was WRONG. We can’t be sure there won’t be even more major changes to the things listed in this article at a future time. The scientific ‘mistakes’ listed here do not even scratch the surface of all the ‘mistakes’ scientists have made over time, and continue to make.

Sir and madam, these are just 3 science sites online that use the word MISTAKE in conjunction with science. There are several more that do so. If scientists themselves use the M-word, why are you berating me for using it?

ScienceChannel.com

10 biggest Science MISTAKES

http://www.sciencechannel.com/strange-science/10-s...

LiveScience.com

5 Greatest Scientific Blunders (do you like the word blunder better than mistake Mr. Wall?)

http://www.livescience.com/32051-greatest-scientif...

Howstuffworks.com

Even with such a rigorous methodology in place, some scientists still make MISTAKES.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scient...

As I pointed out in the very beginning of this article, I have written this in answer to atheists who insist science has already proven God does not exist.

You can read some of the ludicrous statements atheists made in the HP forums prior to my writing this article by going up to my comment written 21 months ago and just below the row of stars on the left of that comment. I have copied and pasted several atheist’s comments from the forums for anyone who wishes to suggest that atheists do not make such ridiculous charges. Read them for yourselves.

I find it interesting that you (LW) are so determined to defend science, and then you turn right around and mock Albert Einstein, one of the biggest science rock stars of all time (specifically physics).

The following are YOUR words Mr. Wall, copied and pasted from your July 17, 2014 entry above, ”I will just say that what you are calling mistakes, were simply the previous explanation. There is gravity. The theory of how gravity operates may be wrong or not complete. I drop something it fall to the floor. If it is not gravity, give me a name for it so I will not perpetrate the mistake.” [Did you mean perpetuate the mistake?]

You further state, “Thus, saying there is no gravity, or making a big issue out of Pluto be downsized (no pun intended) is not being fair to the scientific community.”

Perhaps you forgot to read the section on gravity, Mr. Wall? If you bothered to read it, you would know it is Albert Einstein who said “There is no such thing as gravity.” Einstein said that over 109 years ago. I made it clear in the section of this document about gravity that Dr. Einstein determined that gravity is not what keeps us from floating into space. It is part of his Theory of Relativity. Are you saying Mr. Einstein is full of poop? And that YOU know better than Albert Einstein?

Why do you say I am being unfair to the scientific community when I say “There is no such thing as gravity.” ?? Albert Einstein said there is no such thing as gravity. Is he also being unfair to the scientific community? Am I not allowed to write about Albert Einstein’s Theory of Relativity for some reason? Currently living scientists have no problem with Einstein’s determination that gravity does not exist. Why do YOU have a problem with it?

In the meantime I would also tell you that there are no less than TWO videos embedded in this article that explain Albert Einstein’s theory on gravity. Watch the videos Mr. Wall, and then perhaps you will understand.

Here is another one of your statements in your comment of July 17, 2014, “There is something that keeps up [us?] planted to the ground. I will call it gravity. As to how it works, I open to hearing any theory.”

WATCH the explanation provided in the videos Mr. Wall. If you are so “open” to “any theory” why did you not watch the videos provided before shooting from the hip??? Your lack of action (failing to watch the videos) belies your words, Sir.

Why do you think I should rewrite this entire article of more than 3800 words just for you in this comments section? Why can’t you simply read the original? You would know a lot more about the absence of gravity according to Albert Einstein if you would simply watch the videos that are presented in this article. As well, most of both of your objections are answered in the text of this article that you did not bother to read before starting your complaints. This applies to you also, Mbuggieh.

I have said countless times in this document that I love science and that I know it has accomplished many amazing and wonderful things that make our lives better. I have said my purpose is not to bash science, but to show that we are not capable of understanding many of the simple things in our world and therefore not capable of proving God’s existence or non existence. I understand the nature of science and have stated that fact more than once in this article.

Why must I write these things over again just especially for you Mr. Wall, and for you Ms. Buggieh? Why can’t you just read the many times I have already written them and get the message? It is written in the body of this article and many times in the comments section.

I do not believe that God and science are incompatible. In fact, I believe God is truly the greatest scientist of all.

God made this world and everything in it, and look how complicated all His creations are. Just the inner ear of a human is so complicated let alone all the other parts that make up humans -- and then there are all of the other creatures and living things as well as the planet itself and the universe. Who needs further proof that intelligent design is involved? Who can state with a straight face that all these complicated things just happened by accident with a big bang?

The scientific changes I mentioned in this article were major changes, not minor revisions. It was not simply a matter of letting the seams out a little. It was a matter of changing the pattern extensively, if not entirely.

Going from a flat earth to a spherical earth is a major change. Going from 4 taste buds to 6 and changing their distribution on the tongue entirely, is a major change. Discovering all bats do in fact have excellent eyesight except for one species, rather than all bats being blind, is a major change. Moving Pluto from a full-blown planet into a group of plutoids is a major change.

Saying gravity does not exist after it has been taught for decades and continues to be taught WRONG according to Dr. Einstein, is a super major change, not a mere revision.

Read this article in its entirety Mr. Wall and Ms. Buggieh. Follow the references given also. Even the major part of the science community you say you support does not agree with your assessment of words used in this article or your belief that Albert Einstein was half a bubble off regarding gravity.


Larry Wall 2 years ago

Au Fait, in one of your replies to me you said you never used the word Mistake--that was my word.

Check out one of your subheads --- More Science Mistakes.


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

I read in an e-mail about a barber and his customer that were arguing about whether God exist or not. Trying to convince the barber that God does exist was like talking to the barber's chair.

When the barber finished the customer was leaving and as he walked out the door, he saw a homeless man with long stringy hair and a long beard and the customer turned around and said "barbers do not exist!) the barber shot back "you can see me, I am standing right here, so how can you say that I don't exist?"

The customer said, "If barbers exist, that man would be clean shaven with a neat hair cut."

The barber shoots back, "he never came to me."

The customer said, "EXACTLY!"

Voted up, UAI and shared.

God Bless you my dear friend


mbuggieh 2 years ago

You are welcome Larry. There is a lot of anti-science rhetoric out there misusing the word "theory" and claiming that change means a "mistake" was made---a mistake that discredits science in general. It is a very troubling trend.


Larry Wall 2 years ago

mbuggieh:

Thank you for your comment.

I remember when I was in grade school, more than 50 years ago, the rule was to brush your teeth three times each day. That was not practical when you were in the first grade attending elementary school. Today, the recommendation is twice a day. Was the first recommendation a mistake. I do not think so, three times is probably better than twice a day. However, twice a day appears to be adequate. Because things change does not mean the original idea was a mistake. Admittedly, there have been mistakes. The electronic industry tried to sell laser disk players. They did not last very long. The technology work, but the marketing and the research on consumer acceptance was definitely a mistake.

Again, thank you for your supportive comments.


mbuggieh 2 years ago

Exactly Larry Wall.

Despite claims to the contrary, this hub caricatures the need for revision, the willingness to acknowledge the need for revision, and the willingness to actually make revisions as evidence of "mistakes".

Revision does not necessarily imply mistakes. Revision is the stuff of progress.


Larry Wall 2 years ago

Au fait, you offer a lot of information on many subjects. I will just say that what you are calling mistakes, were simply the previous explanation. There is gravity. The theory of how gravity operates may be wrong or not complete. I drop something it fall to the floor. If it is not gravity, give me a name for it so I will not perpetrate the mistake.

Explanations for many things have changed do to advance research, discovering that early research was faulty or the availability of data was limited.

It was once thought that only human can thinks. I have three Beagles and they think. One has nightmares.

Global warming exists, but probably not for the reasons that people are claiming, at least not exclusive. Greenhouse gasses have an impact, but the increasing population, the covering of grassy areas with concrete, creating more heat must have some impact.

No scientific fact is set in stone never to be challenged, modified or dismissed. Time and our ability to learn and gather evidence leads to new theories about old issues. Thus, saying there is no gravity, or making a big issue out of Pluto be downsized (no pun intended) is not being fair to the scientific community.

As a people we have made scientific mistakes, social mistakes and careless mistakes. Prohibition was a social mistake. We learn it is hard to legislate morality and the elimination of one "evil" only leads to another to replace it, such as increased drug use.

I do not have all the answers and I do not always agree with all that I am told. There is something that keeps up planted to the ground. I will call it gravity. As to how it works, I open to hearing any theory.


mbuggieh 2 years ago

Whatever.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

mbuggieh, appreciate your stopping by. You've made 2 visits to this article, for which I thank you, but it is clear to me that on neither visit did you bother to read this article in its entirety.

I have used different words, but I have said basically what you are saying in your comments. Come back when you get some time and read the entire article.

If you read any other of my articles I recommend you read them carefully and in their entirety to avoid putting your foot in it as you have done here -- twice no less. ;)


mbuggieh 2 years ago

What you caricature as "mistakes" are how science works. You should read Thomas Kuhn's THE STRUCTURE OF SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTIONS for some insights into how scientists actually think and how science actually works.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

fpherj48, thank you for sharing your own wisdom here!

Well, anything bad is a sin, but of course people tend to want to exaggerate their own good, or what they perceive to be good about themselves above the good others do, as well. It isn't just rationalizing their less than ideal qualities away.

The one thing that has always bugged me -- and I looked and looked and couldn't find the name or phrase in psychology that refers to it, but what it amounts to is this: When other people do immoral acts it is because they have character and/or personality flaws. When I do things like that it's different; I have a good reason for doing them.

Well, I don't always keep my sarcastic dry humor to myself which is why I am often at the top of everyone's Ms. Popularity list. My tongue is bloody because even standing on it with cleats can't always control it. My body starts shaking and squirming like someone who has to pee really bad, because I just can't bare to hold those juicy words in, and the next thing that old tongue is getting me into trouble again!


mbuggieh 2 years ago

Anyone understand that science is progressive; that change or modification of scientific theories represents scientific progress?

Anyone understand that the last scientist working to prove (or disprove) the existence of God using science was Newton---in the 18th century?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

And thank YOU, for spending much time in response. I do appreciate this. "Thinking before we speak"......what a novel idea, C.E. Perhaps one day that concept will catch on, in a decade to come?

I admire your wisdom and pure honesty, as well as your uncanny ability to express yourself to your readers.

One sentence in particular deserves "bright highlighting!"......."That is a human invention intended to rationalize one's own sins as being not as bad as those of other people's."

THAT, can be said again and again. I might add that it applies not only to sin, but to nearly everything. It is a rampant and much-overused "human invention"....which at this point simply makes me laugh!

In an effort to be civil, I merely think to myself..."Yes, however small and remote the difference between what you do from what others do....I see how much better you are." (Oh how it hurts to keep such perfect sarcasm to myself)

Thanks C.E.........


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Paula (fpherj48), thank you for reading, commenting, voting on, and for spending "so much of my morning in one spot." Please feel free to come back anytime and read again, or to choose a different article. :)

Actually, Misty is a name that Bobby likes to call me, but it isn't my real name. I guess it's an endearment of sorts. As stated on my profile page, I am C. E. Clark. I hate my first name and that's why I never use it.

I believe if people would really think things through from start to finish and actually realize what the results of their actions will be, or whether what they think is correct really is, they might say and do things differently. Alas, many people do not seem to have the desire or the ability to do this.

Humans are so arrogant about their knowledge in so many instances, and yet our knowledge in truth, compared to all knowledge available, would fit on the point of a pin with space to drive a convoy of 18-wheelers around it.

It isn't that we know nothing at all, or that science doesn't accomplish wonderful and amazing things that improve many of our lives, but both we, and science, really do have an awfully long way to go before we can do comparatively simple things before even attempting to prove the existence, or not, of what the Bible says is a spiritual being, with hard science. More human arrogance.

I often wonder at God's patience because so often if I heard some of the outrageous things some humans say that God must hear, I would be oh so tempted to wipe the slate clean and start over. That is why I will never get my 5 seconds of being God. :)

No, I am not suggesting that I am better. We all have our shortcomings. I am perhaps one of the worst Christians on the planet and I must try all over again every new day to see if I can do a little better than yesterday, so I'm quite sure God gets pretty disgusted with me at times too. Maybe all the time! But for different reasons I hope, not that it matters. A sin is a sin is a sin. God doesn't have a sin-rating system. That is a human invention intended to rationalize one's own sins as being not as bad as those of other people's. All unforgiven sins reap the same reward, so our silly sin rating system is a waste of time.

Yes, peace. Will that ever be possible? So glad you enjoyed this article.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

Au fait.....I found this extremely well-written Hub and related comments so very interesting.....I read it twice, enjoying it thoroughly each time. Please feel free to be highly complimented. You deserve praise for this wonderful work. It is not often I will spend so much of my morning in one spot.

(I see that Bobby refers to you as "Misty"....can I assume this is your name?) Truthfully Misty, I find this hub a brilliant work of art. You have definitely been successful IMHO....if your intent was (as you state) to cause people to "think." For me personally, I must tell you that this is also quite timely.

I am actually tempted to read this a 3rd. time....but I must get some work done around here! LOL........Bravo! Voted way up and high scores across the board......Peace, Paula


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Sam, thank you for stopping by. We are indeed all related to Jesus Christ as children of God.

People have been advocating training and licensing of people who want to become parents since before I was born. It hasn't happened yet. There was a time in this country when women who had too many unwanted births on the tax payers tab were sterilized. That was ended decades ago.

There are many antichrists (people who are against God), but Thee Anticrhist has yet to gain power. It could happen in your lifetime as the end is fairly near, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

The thing to remember is that when Christ returns He expects to find us all (His people) doing the work He has assigned us to do, not selling our possessions, including our homes, quitting our jobs, and standing around watching the East for His appearance as so many cults do when they predict the end of the world.

No, I do not believe the world is less violent than it was when I was a small child. There are innumerable wars going on all over the world right now in addition to the violence that is happening everywhere between individuals -- not to mention that nature has become more violent as well.

You have to realize that there is no hard evidence for some of the things scientists come up with. It's often theory and conjecture. Sometimes they look around and make determinations by that method just like ordinary people do. It's called antidotal evidence, no objectiveness involved. In fact a lot of their ideas are subjective, meaning that they have interpreted it themselves by their own standards if any. If you aren't sure what subjective means check the dictionary. All you have to do is put subjective def in the Google search box to get an answer.

When something is subjective it is entirely at the mercy of the person making the judgment. It is based on one's personal opinion and therefore biased extremely. Many people may agree with the determination or no others may agree. I don't worry about the far out stuff scientists and others suggest and I recommend you not worry about the either.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Hackslap, thank you for commenting and for the compliments.

You are free to disagree with me so long as you do it without making personal attacks and you should be prepared to support your argument, whatever it is if it's different.

Some people seem to believe they must make personal attacks and may not realize they're doing it because it's second nature to them, but demeaning me, my intelligence, my ability for logic, or my research will bring out my claws. Especially if you have nothing but accusations to offer and the only thing you can do is whine because your favorite person didn't come out well in the research. I'm not saying you do this Hackslap, but we both know someone who does. Before jumping on that person's bandwagon you should probably check his/her references to make sure they are all that is claimed lest you get so close you end up as collateral damage when those references are unpacked.

Thanks again for stopping by . .


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 2 years ago

Some atheists come up with pretty ridiculous reasons to disbelieve in God. For example there was this one guy who said and I quote.

(I believe in Evolution and science because A. The Bible is typed with neat paper (yeah I'm sure they had computers with printers back before anything even existed yet when civilization came into play best we could come up with was paper and ink) and B. If God really did invent Adam & Eve and they reproduced, guess what? that means were all related! bet ya didn't think of that, did ya?).

To me these sound like ridiculous reasons to disbelieve in God and the reason why the Bible is as neat as he describes it is because the Bibles that we have today are copies of the original book.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for commenting Shyron, and for the votes and share. I do have a knack for picking controversial subjects don't I?


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 2 years ago

I like science but there are some thing about science that kind of scares me such as eugenics. There's this guy named Hank Pellissier who advocates parenting licenses for people who he considers fit parents and to forcibly sterilize people who he considers unfit. I do agree that there are parents out there who shouldn't even be within 50 ft of a child but to forcibly sterilize people is another matter and I don't think you could enforce parenting licenses without stepping on peoples rights.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 2 years ago

Some atheists say that fragments of the Big Bang have been found. I don't know if that's true or not but even if it is I don't think that disproves the existence of God if anything I think its proof that God does exist because there was nothing before the Big Bang so where did it come from.

Also some people say that the world is becoming less violent I don't know if that is true or not either but I think the Bible says something about the Antichrist establishing a temporary world peace but than breaking it later. Is the world really becoming less violent.


Hackslap profile image

Hackslap 2 years ago from Sydney, Australia

I don't always agree with your articles ..but I must admit I'm open minded enough to consider your opinion and give my 'man logic' a good jog .. your hubs make really good and informative reading Au Fait ..keep it up and don't stop!


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

Au fait, your commenters are almost as interesting as your article. I have to come back often to keep up. Wow this is growing and growing into debate worth watching/reading.

Voted up UAI and shared .


Larry Wall 2 years ago

I do not think I offered a lecture. I was just offering an explanation (my view) as to how what were once considered scientific facts have changed as new data was available.

I will have nothing else to offer.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for stopping by Sam (samowhamo). I believe babies evolve into adults of whatever species they happen to be. I believe to some extent humans evolve even as adults as they become more knowledgeable, but I do not believe humans evolved from apes or fish or anything else. God created each and every creature as they are.

Humans are now experimenting and changing plants and animals through genetic engineering, but I think they are not necessarily making progress or improving any or those species by so doing, much less improving the world.

I think you are closer to correct regarding natural selection than scientists are regarding evolution.

Some people I've observed or known do seem to have traits common with certain animals, but I don't believe that is a result of evolution or having descended from these animals. I do not believe the animals are in any way to blame for the human behavior. ;)


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Larry Wall for stopping by and commenting on this article.

Appreciate your lecture, but if you take the time to read this article in its entirety you will see that I have addressed this issue both in the text and in the comments of this article several times.

I neither used the terms "mistakes" or "errors." Those are your words. I said they were wrong, and they were -- and for good reason, as I have pointed out several times previously, but somehow you missed it. I think if you read this entire article you will find we are in agreement about science. I also recommend the comments.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 2 years ago

What are your views on evolution. Scientists believe that whales are descended from wolf-like animals and that sheep are also descended from wolf-like animals. They have found fossils of wolf-like animals that bear traits of whales or sheep. I sometimes worry if this would somehow compromise my belief in God. Some atheists say that evolution is observable my take on it is how do they even know that's evolution how do they know its not natural selection.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for stopping by Sam (samowhamo). We are indeed living in the end times and much of what was prophesied in the book of Revelation has already happened. Really, we are only waiting now for the Antichrist to take over and that could happen at any time.

Wouldn't you expect atheists and Satanists to say those things you mentioned? If they said things in agreement with the Bible they wouldn't be atheists and Satanists would they? They're entire purpose is to turn people away from God.

According to the Bible, Satanists, including their leader, and atheists, are lost. As a result, they want everyone else to be lost too -- sort of like someone who says, "If I can't have it, no one is going to have it," and then they destroy, or attempt to destroy, whatever it is that they can't have. In this case the thing they can't have is salvation, because they rejected it themselves.

Satanists and atheists share the goal of trying to destroy God's Kingdom, though not necessarily for the same reasons. Both Satanists and atheists share the belief that they do not need God, and they believe they are above God (if indeed He exists).

The reason for all of the strife in this world in the first place is because Satan, a creation of God, became so prideful that he thought himself superior to God and therefore above God. He turned many of the inhabitants and other angels of Heaven against God. Now they are all doing their best to show all the worlds (yes there are more than just Earth, if one can believe the Bible, with intelligent life) how much better their way is than God's way.

Look around Sam. What do you see? Is everything in this world perfect? Millions and millions of people are doing Satan's will. They are following his belief system. We are all witnesses and often victims of their evil deeds so we can see first hand how Satan's superior plan works. By experiencing it first hand and by all the worlds observing this grand experiment, God is allowing all to see the benefits of Satans's way of doing things.

God could have destroyed Satan and his followers in the blink of an eye, but instead is allowing Satan to prove to all the inhabitants of this universe exactly how his way is better. God is allowing Satan to prove his way is better than God's. Once this experiment is over, this opportunity for Satan to prove himself so that no one can say God is not fair, evil will not be allowed to rise again. Satan and his followers will be destroyed an no being like Satan will be allowed to exist again, not even for the purpose of proving his way is not better than God's way.

Those people who survive this experiment without losing their souls (by succumbing to evil) will be witnesses to the benefits of evil for all of eternity. Those people who are saved will be able to testify to the disadvantages of opposing God. They will be able to recollect first hand for those who did not participate or observe the evil Satan is causing, just how awful it is. Look around this world and there are endless examples of evil and no one in their right mind would want it to continue once it is destroyed. War, greed, disloyalty, deception, pollution, disease, violence of every sort, etc., there really is no end to all the evil and ugliness in this world thanks to Satan's so-called better way, and even though it might seem hopeless to some people, in fact good will be victorious when the dust finally settles.

Millions or God's warriors, if you want to call them that, will live for eternity, able to tell first hand of the evils they experienced and witnessed when someone rose up and challenged God, saying his way was better and that God was deceiving people, such as Satan (the serpent) in the Garden of Eden did with Adam and Eve.

In the meantime, Satan's agents will do everything they can to turn people away from God and we are warned about that in the Bible. We are warned these followers of Satan's way will come along and try to deceive us and turn us away from God, but of course if a person hasn't read and understood the Bible they would not be aware of these warnings.

Just as with the laws of this land, ignorance of the law is no excuse. That is also true when it comes to the final judgment. God said early in Genesis that He wrote the Commandments in our hearts, so everyone knows what they are and they know what the law is. In other words, everyone of sound mind knows right from wrong. Therefore ignorance of God's law will not be an acceptable defense when the time comes to answer for one's sins. Some people think if they deny God exists and refuse to acknowledge Him they will somehow avoid any responsibility for their sins. The better way is to accept the forgiveness offered by Jesus because we can never earn salvation no matter how hard we try. The next step is to pass that forgiveness on to everyone in our lives because we have not earned forgiveness, it is a gift. A gift God expects us to share. If we are to receive mercy and forgiveness we must also give it.


Larry Wall 2 years ago

Belief in God is a matter of faith. I cannot prove he exists, but I know he does.

Some of scientific errors you mention are not really errors. It is just an indication that scientists are constantly working to challenge or support the accepted norm and finding out it is true or if there is more to it. That is called progress. I was a newspaper reporter for 15 years and a public relations director for 22 years. I went from manual typewriters, to electric, to primitive computers and to the dual monitor system I am using now. Because new evidence is found does not mean that the old idea was a mistake. It just means that it was the best answer that man could come up with at that time.

Finally, time travel may be possible, but we will never prove it. If we go in the past and change anything, we will not know it because it will have never happened. If we go into the future, we will not know until we get there, unless someone from further in the future comes back to change what the first time traveler did.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Shyron, for commenting, voting, and sharing!

Hope you are feeling much better now. Just one day of those awful migraines was more than enough for me. 4 days of them would be brutal. I'm so sorry that happened and that no solution was found before such a long time elapsed.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 2 years ago

Thank you Au Fait. Some atheists even say that Christians are realizing that technology makes God obsolete. I don't think that's true I think that's just propaganda made up by atheists. Some Satanists even say that God can be conquered. Again I don't believe what atheists or Satanists say. I think we are getting closer to the end times or may already be in them. I have noticed that a lot of what The Book of Revelations has said is happening in these times.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Sam, for your continued interest in this article. It's true that research shows the more educated a person is the less they are inclined to believe they need God.

I Corinthians 3:19 -- For what this world considers to be wisdom is nonsense in God's sight. As the scripture says, "God traps the wise in their cleverness." Many so-called educated people believe in humanism, but in fact God made humans, so to place faith in humanity is not so different than placing faith in trees or other objects natural or manmade.

Being educated in worldly things that will pass away sooner than you think, will not gain a person eternal life. Most of the things that people place so much importance on here in this world, such as the amassing of great wealth or other material things, social status, and/or a prestigious address on this planet, will mean absolutely nothing when we leave this world, as we all will do. Those who are the least here in this world will be the greatest in the next world and those who are the greatest here (celebs, CEOs of huge corporations, etc.) will be the least in the next world -- if they get there at all.

How much we have learned about human nature, how much we have helped the less fortunate along the way, and how much we have learned about love and empathy will benefit us in the next life. Even with all this, without belief and faith in God, we will not be granted entrance into that next world.

We can't earn eternal life, but rather it is granted us as a gift and our good deeds are a symbol of our salvation. Sad that some people will educate themselves about worldly things right out of eternal life. The Bible warns against placing one's faith in humans, but those who do not read that guide or who do not understand it, will miss out.

Becoming so well informed and educated about worldly things that one imagines they do not need God is called pride. Pride cometh before a fall -- Satan fell because he imagined himself above God and without need of God. He thought his own way was better than God's. We only have to look around our world and see all the evil to know how Satan's plan is working and whether or not it is superior to God's plan.

Anyone who imagines him/herself to be above God and without need of Him will one day reap great disappointment. I feel sorry for them because some of them are good people trying to do good things, but because they had/have no faith or acceptance of God's generous offer, they will be lost.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

Yes, dear, I'll read a lot of rubbish about someone who lived 2000 years ago. No thanks, I have people like Richard Dawkins to refer-to if I need my lack of theist beliefs bolstered. have a nice day and don't nag anyone.

x


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

Au fait, wonderful hub. As I always say, If you believe, no explanation is necessary, and if you do not believe, no explanation is possible.

Voted up, UABI, shared, pinned.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 2 years ago

There was a study that someone did that said if you have more religion in your life than that makes you less educated or something. I don't think that's true at all there are religious people out there who are quite well educated. I also don't think that science and religion are incompatible in spite of what some religious people and atheists think. I think that in some ways yes they probably are but in other ways they are not.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Diogenes, I compare you to the Apostle Paul who was adamant in his rejection of and lack of belief in God. Read about Paul's experience and how he became a believer.

Hope you're well.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

Take the scales from my eyes? Boy, you have the measure of me!

Night night

x


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Shyron, for reading, sharing your thoughts as well as this article, and for the votes.

Hope you have your feet up and are resting. Tomorrow you will likely experience some soreness and pain from your experience. Take time to rest and heal. I promise you no little elves will do your work when you're not looking, so you can safely get a little rest without worrying your work will be done when you get back.

Thank you for caring about this attempted theft I just experienced. Most people didn't.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Bobby (Diogenes), so glad it's all better. Perhaps now that your toe is much better, He will one day soon remove the scales from your eyes as well! ;) xx


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

Au fait, you do have some interesting comments on here.

This is also an interesting hub, and I still like to read it every once in a while.

I too, believe that God and Jesus exist, I can't prove, but I do believe.

But as the saying goes "If you do not believe, no explanation is possible and if you do believe, no explanation is necessary."

Voted up UAI, and shared.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

Well...blow me down, now He cured it!

Bob


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

There you go again, Bobby, ASSUMING. In this case assuming my faith is blind. My faith is not blind. It is you who is blind as the Disciple Paul was before he became a believer. He used to go around preaching against God until one day God made Paul blind for real. Then God healed Paul's blindness so that Paul then realized God was real and began his ministry. A little more to it than that, and you can read about it in the New Testament if you care.

God didn't give you gout. It's more likely a combination of genetics and poor eating/drinking habits. But you are funny. Be careful however, lest God not think you're so funny, and really does give you something to howl about.

Hope your toe is better today . . . xox


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Shyron, for the votes and the shares, and for your comments too. We are a long, long way from making people immortal. First we must cure the things that kill them in the first place.

Interesting question you posed to Mr. C. I look forward to his response . . . ;)


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

Just curious diogenes, (I know curiosity killed the cat) but I must ask. If God does not exist to you how did he give you gout? Curiosity may have killed the cat, but satisfaction brought him back.

Au fait, fantastic hub, voted up, UAI, and shared.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

Talking to someone calling down the fire and brimstone on another is like trying to converse with a schitzophrenic. (can't m not trying to turn anyone against God, fer God's sake! You might be better off with a blind belief that at least gives you hope for something after death (apart from enjoying all you are to become part of all else in time).

And I know hell hath no fury like a god scorned...he gave me gout!!!

oxox


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

I'm not sure immortality is a hoax, but I do think it is a little over the edge. Did you read this article Sam? Scientists can't even cure the common cold, diabetes, or hangnails. They can do some amazing things and have made our lives better, but when it comes down to it, there's an awful, AWFUL lot they do not know. Would it make sense to make humans immortal and not be able to cure the common cold?

How do you make a species immortal when you can't protect them from cancer and heart disease -- 2 major killers? Just about everybody dies from one or the other if poverty doesn't get 'em first. No one lives forever with cancer or heart disease and almost everyone gets one or the other. Don't you think they would have to learn to control those diseases before they start making people immortal?

Scientists are still in the process of proving Einstein's Theory of Relativity that he developed over a hundred years ago. Once they prove it, if they do, likely they will have to go over it all over again and make changes because of the new technology and discoveries that were made while they were working on proving it.

Humans will never be immortal in this world. Voldemort is a fictional character and in the end I believe even he was destroyed. :)


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

Misty...morning' I just have to say: what do you mean in saying "God wouldn't allow something?" When does he ever stop wars, disasters, plagues, starvation (Africa today) and all the other ills that befall man and creatures, collectively. Not to mention all the individual trauma: emotional and physical pain we suffer?

Would a caring, all powerful Being allow poor rhinos to have their horns ripped out and left to live like this until they die from loss of blood or sheer depression.

If you do ascribe these powers to some Creator, He has a lot to answer for, in my opinion!

Bob xo

Get real, girl!

Bob


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

Au fait, I came back to share this very interesting hub.

I agree with samowhamo, scientist are not considering whether they should but whether they can make people immortal.

Voted up, shared and pinned to Amazing HubPages.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 2 years ago

Some people say that this immortality thing is just a hoax that some scientists are trying to pull and honestly I can't say I blame them for thinking it's a hoax I can hardly believe it myself so it may be a hoax. It wouldn't be the first time scientists have tried to pull a hoax before. Back in older centuries scientists would sometimes take the bodies of lizards and attach bat wings to them and than put them in specimen jars and tell people that they were dragon embryos but it was just a hoax.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

Which scientists are trying to "make people immortal," samo?

I might point out that many scientists are theists. This is such a tired old discussion, Misty. I don't insist my birds are any more real than any interpretors of what these bundles of particles we call budgies would call them. They might be seen totally differently from beings who interpret energy's zillion manifestations in other ways.

Heck, Misty, there ain't no gods! Keep on deluding yourself

xo


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Bobby (Diogenes), thank you for your continued interest in this issue. I really have no interest in debating anything regarding God. You are welcome to believe whatever you want and you would have as much luck convincing me that God does not exist as I would likely have of convincing you that your pet birds did not exist. I have never seen your birds, yet you speak of them as though they were real. You have no proof of their existence -- Photoshopped photos maybe? The word of friends who would say whatever you wanted them to?

You have seen your birds and no one is likely to convince you they never existed. God has made Himself known to me and is just as real to me as anything else in this world. Just as real as your birds were to you. So there is nothing to debate.

I do not have patrician toes and no one messes with 'em.

Take care . . . xox


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

Well...I read your long comment. You can't debate these things adequately on HP. Richard Dawkins has addressed some of what you postulate in "The God Delusion," should you choose to peep within. I was merely mentioning that there have been many atrocities associated with religious beliefs, but you choose to separate God's will from such beliefs I see.

Do you have patrician's toes? love to chew em'

Happy hols

R xooxoxox


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

MG Singh, thank you for stopping by. My main purpose in writing is to educate people and hopefully make them think (the main point of true education). Appreciate that you have noted that. :)


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Shyron, thank you for stopping by and sharing your thoughts on this important issue. Agree with you entirely. In fact, I think one day scientists may discover that there are a lot of things in our world that are not tangible, measurable, or visible, yet they exist and influence our lives and our world.

Thank you for voting and sharing this article too! I hope you will feel better soon.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 2 years ago from North Texas Author

Bobby (Diogenes), thank you for sharing your thoughts on this issue. Afraid I must disagree about the Twin Towers and similar events. I think if there were no religion on this planet, none at all, the very same people who bombed the Twin Towers would have done so. They would simply have found a different scapegoat (excuse) for their barbarianism.

Terrorists and violent criminals do what they do because they are personally evil, not because of the religion they happen to be (or not be) or because that their religion is different from most Americans.

If not for a difference in religion, they might use the excuse that our patrician toes were inferior, or that they disliked the fact that women have so many more rights here than in their own countires. They may even use the excuse that too many Americans have light skin. Regardless of their excuse, they would have acted in the same manner, not because of their religion, but because of WHO THEY ARE.

Lots of people have used religion over the centuries as an excuse for killing people, but since the God of Heaven gave them a free will, I believe it's on them personally, not on God. People choose to do with their free will what they want to -- God doesn't force them to make any particular choices. If He did, they wouldn't have a free will would they? When people choose to do ugly, evil things, it is their own choice and no one else's.

I could blame the murder of hundreds of men onto a guy named Bob Challen, but would that be fair and reasonable? Just because I say I'm one of his followers, indeed, I am one of his followers, does that make him responsible for everything or anything that I do? Does this guy Bob control my thoughts and actions.

Yes, God could control a person's thoughts and actions but instead He gave humans a free choice, and look at some of the choices those humans make.

Everyone needs God in their lives even if they don't realize it. But, what you believe is your business. Everyone is free to believe what they want to so far as I'm concerned, even if it's wrong -- so long as it doesn't harm me or anyone I care about. Believe I made my position clear in this article if you read it entirely. I won't be lying awake worrying about whether or not you believe in God, and if you want to blame someone other than the perpetrators (for example God -- someone you say is myth, not fact), then do what makes you happy.

My personal conclusion is that evil people like to blame everyone and everything for their own evil rather than taking responsibility for it. For some reason, people like yourself like to play along with these monsters and blame what they call an imaginary deity for their acts of violence.

Evil does evil. That's all it is capable of whether you or anyone else believes in God or not. Evil people will always find a scapegoat. Why anyone would accept their reasoning and also blame their scapegoat, I do not know. People do what they do because it is their nature to be the way they are. It has nothing to do with any God directing them.

I can tell you this -- if a voice in your head is telling you to do something illegal and/or downright evil or cruel, that voice is not God's voice. You should immediately seek psychological help and thwart that voice to the best of your ability. God never directs anyone to do evil. Never.

If terrorists had destroyed the Twin towers because the majority of people in those buildings wore brown or black shoes, would you then agree that shoes are the root cause of violence and therefore refuse to wear shoes?

People do what they do for their own reasons and the God of Heaven is not to blame. The only person to blame is the person themselves if they are of sound mind, which is a good question also. How could anyone with a sound mind perpetrate such horrible things?

I promise you, even if no person on this planet ever heard of an entity referred to as God, never heard of anything relating to 'religion,' evil would still exist. People would still kill and do heinous unimaginable deeds, they would simply blame something, or someone else besides God and religion. To think otherwise is simplistic.

Do hope you are your bright-eyed and bushy tailed self this Saturday morning! Looking forward to your new article on isms. Take care xox


MG Singh profile image

MG Singh 2 years ago from Singapore

Nice post that makes you think


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

Misty...and Shyron. Science can't prove there are Gods any more than theists can. Kids believe in fairies and who is to say them nay if they get something from their imaging. But if believers want to convince others of the truth of their beliefs, it is THEIR job to prove it. Again, you can't prove a negative Science can't prove there is no God either. All science does is to point out there is no empirical evidence to indicate any gods ever existed.

Atheists just don't need gods in there lives: as Doug Adams said, " Isn't enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom of it!"

Goodwill to all

Bob


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

Au fait, I don't think science can prove anything religious, they don't believe anything that isn't tangible.

People who truly believe have God in their hearts and minds.

I would rather live as if there is a God and die and find out there isn't, than to live as if there is no God and die and find out there is.

This is an excellent article and I am voting it up and sharing it again.

Shyron


diogenes profile image

diogenes 2 years ago from UK and Mexico

I am about to write a hub on theism and atheism and a few other "isms." I am not religious, but I dislike the label of "atheist," as well. I mean, what's so great about being a member of a group with no great philosophy to offer? True or not, if one does not have religious convictions, one doesn't need to be militant about it, EXCEPT where violence is concerned, wars and all the other conflicts begun in the name of one Deity or other I watched the distressing video on the Lockerby air disaster last night - the first time I have seen all the details. NO "faith" could justify this terrorist act that had an aircraft and hundreds of bodies raining from the sky. It was beyond comprehension really, just like the Twin Towers and I tend to lean towards what has often been said, "If these were no Gods, the WTC would still be standing"

Bob


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts Aunt Jimi, and for the votes, and share, too! Agree that Einstein's Theory of Relativity is a bit complicated, which is why I put a video in to explain it rather than attempting to do it myself. I don't understand how his theory relates to objects and people on this or any other planet either. I can understand the inertia with planets and other space objects, but things on this planet, as you say, are not 'in orbit,' so what keeps us all from floating away if not the gravity we all learned about in elementary school? Good question . . .


Aunt Jimi profile image

Aunt Jimi 3 years ago from The reddest of the Red states!

Really enjoyed this hub. Learned some new science information. That thing about gravity is pretty complicated, but it sure was interesting. I understand how Einstein's Theory would relate to the planets and similar huge objects, but how can it relate to small things like people and animals and that sort of thing? What keeps things from flying off into space if gravity doesn't really exist as we have been taught? We're not in our own little orbits, so how do these things relate?

Very interesting hub and I'm going to share it with my followers. Also, voted up, interesting and awesome!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Shyron, for your words of wisdom, your votes, and your share!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Nell Rose, thank you for reading and voting on this article and for sharing your thoughts. Since the winners get to write the history it goes without saying that it will make them look good whether that is accurate or not.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

apeksha, thank you for stopping by and commenting!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for your contribution Aunt Jimi. Yes, atheists in the forums and elsewhere do say some pretty crazy things, but according to some commenters here, standing up to them and stating the truth is being sarcastic. Have you ever known me to be sarcastic Aunt Jimi? ;) Thanks again!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 3 years ago from England

Hi aufait, I smiled all the way through this because you sound like me! lol! I am always yelling at things like this, for example, 'Why do those idiots say that, when its blatantly obvious its that? or why does one say this, when they now say it could never have been? I always quote the saying that someone stated about history. 'History is a fact that we all believe, but is actually based on myths! or something like that! loved this, voted up! nell


apeksha profile image

apeksha 3 years ago from India.

Good search and nicely presented.


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 3 years ago

This is a great read no matter where your beliefs lay.

Mine? I believe that everyone in Heaven believes in God. I believe that everyone on earth believes in everything from A - Z (i.e. Atheism to Zen.) I believe that everyone in Hell believes in God.

If I am wrong, no 'Matter.'

Voted-up, UAI, shared and pinned to my Amaging HubPages board.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you moonlake, for venturing into one of my more controversial articles and for voting it up and sharing!


Aunt Jimi profile image

Aunt Jimi 3 years ago from The reddest of the Red states!

I know you like to keep things low key Au fait, but I couldn't help but read the recent comments on this one. I hope you'll excuse me for doing this, but here are some of the things atheists have said and I know similar things to the ones I'm listing here are the reason you wrote this hub -- not a straw man argument, but answering these ridiculous people who insist they have all the answers.

Here are real quotes from the forums on this subject:

FreyaKraftposted 8 days ago

What evidence you have that God exists? You are lunatics that you would imagine a supernatural deity to invent the world. Madness in action. To be a little serious with you kindegerteners, it maybe that the Universe is just infinite. And human beings are just natural products. Stop wasting time preaching your God that doesn't exist.

FreyaKraftposted 8 days ago in reply to this

If you can't prove something, then that doesn't exist. If your approach is acceptable to understand the world and the universe, then I can as well say that a giant bird produced an egg and it burst to become the universe. There is little difference between my bird and your God, because both are without evidence.

If God exists within you, try to prove that. We need to see that in action.

FreyaKraftposted 8 days ago

Madness is telling people to believe in a God that no one has ever seen, and can't prove, anyway. Madness is denying that the cosmos can be infinite. And madness is wasting entire days in the religious forums of a website, called HubPages.

pisean282311posted 8 days ago

@freya pardon me to say this but stop wasting ur time...all religious heads know god doesnot exist but they use gullibility of humans to continue business of religion...logical argument serves no purpose...in end humans are too scared to not believe in god...

The Hoax called God

.

Grandysposted 3 weeks ago 

We all know how life works, and how the concept of supernatural is a myth. Come out now and confess that you want freedom from the hoax called God.

Why are we so afraid to accept that there is no God?

.

ElSeductorposted 6 weeks ago 

The reality is that we are alone in this eternal, dark, and cold universe. Why can't we accept this reality? Death is the end. There is no heaven, and there is no hell. We do not need religion in order to have a purpose in life. The purpose is to survive and not harm anyone in the process. Why do we need the fantasy of hell to keep us from doing wrong to our fellow humans?

ForumThe bible has now been proven worthless

Follow (29)

from Mark Knowles 7 days ago

So - it appears that the lie of the Hebrews enslaved by Egypt has now been proven wrong. This makes the entire bible story rather worthless.



Lots of atheists claim that science has proven that God doesn't exist and I know that is why you gave the examples of some of the times (not all) when science has been wrong. I guess cam8510 doesn't read the forums on here or he would know what atheists say continually.

Most people I know are satisfied to let people believe what they want to believe about God and the subject rarely comes up. Since what people believe about God is so important to some people I have to think it's because Satan is speaking through them. Satan cares what people believe about God because he has a horse in the race, so to speak. He and his comrads would of course want to influence people to turn their back on God whenever they can, or drive people away from God by any possible means.

I understood the purpose of this hub was to point out that science may be helpful often times, but it isn't perfect. It has a lot to learn and discover before it will be even close to capable of proving whether or not God exists. People who believe science is at it's pinnacle right now and as a result can state unequivocally that God doesn't exist and that science has proven it are arrogant wishful thinkers. They're hoping God doesn't exist because they fear when they will stand before Him and I would fear that moment too if I were them.

Since many atheists actually continue to try to make, and have made the argument in the past, that science has proven God doesn't exist, I do not see how this hub is in the least bit straw man.

Voting up and awesome again and sharing.


moonlake profile image

moonlake 3 years ago from America

Interesting hub and very interesting comments. Voted up and shared.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

ningali, thank you for reading and commenting on this article! I'm so sorry I didn't respond sooner, but I just discovered your comment. For some reason HP didn't put it in with my other comments. I do hope you are not afraid of death because it is the natural progression of this life. The next level is supposed to be better than this one, which is probably the reason the ancients celebrated death, not birth. Thank you again for stopping by!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

DDE, thank you for stopping by and leaving a comment and for your kind praise.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Bobby, (Diogenes) thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts on this issue. I've read that some scientists are quite sure we are living in a 'computer simulation.' That would explain a few things if it's true.

Beastly hot, 100+ everyday the last 3 weeks or so. Our summer is late. It's hotter now than it was in the summer! Take care . . . xoxoxox


diogenes profile image

diogenes 3 years ago from UK and Mexico

Who knows what the boffins will come up with next to set the current set of beliefs about space time, etc., on their infinite arses.

My overweening belief at present is that everything we are, see and do is just energy acting to stimulus from other manifestations from the energy "bank." And that this "universe" is a complete "being' itself and intimately connected in many ways thanks to infinite particles.

Knowing seems to cancel other knowing. And as another guest commented, "Perhaps we bring all to life by our imaginations."

It's pissing down today, unless that's just my imagination!

Have a nice weekend, dear...

Bob xoxo


DDE profile image

DDE 3 years ago from Dubrovnik, Croatia

An overwhelming response on a great topic of debate, I am not Christian and everybody has their own beliefs it is not an easy subject to get into, however you have done a superb job here.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

W1totalk, thank you for reading and commenting on this article. I don't believe it is possible to 'contain' some things or that they are meant to be contained. Humans are indeed fallible and only fool themselves if they believe otherwise. I don't believe surgery conceived and carried out by a fallible creature will accomplish much. Some things must be accepted for what they are. People who waste time trying to quantify and qualify spirituality are clueless and do not even understand what it is they are trying to contain. It is very entertaining, however, to imagine anyone thinking they can contain God.


W1totalk profile image

W1totalk 3 years ago

This is my concern. The act of trying to contain spirituality, define and archive it is scary in the hands of any intelligent human being. Man is fallible and that will remain unless some imperfection surgery can take place. Great article.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

I really think the main problem with religion in general are the many different interpretations people put on the various Holy Books. Unfortunately some people judge the religion by the people who say they practice it, and while I understand how that happens, at the same time a lot of people interpret things to suit their own desires and agenda, rather than the other way around.

A lot of people call themselves Christians and they are so far from being Christians it isn't funny, but we are all unfortunately being judged by these people simply because they scream the loudest that they are wearing that label. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The loud mouths get the attention. In fact I have known a lot of atheists who behaved and thought (except for their non-belief) more like Christians should behave and think, than some so-called Christians do.

The main reason some things turn out wrong in Christianity is not because they are wrong, but that people twist the words and interpret the words just plain wrong because it's apparently convenient for them to do that. And yes, that is sort of what happens with science. People make judgments when they don't have all the information or because they misinterpreted the information they did have. But that isn't a flaw of science, it's a flaw of people. Some people have trouble knowing the difference, just like some people do not know the difference between sex and love.

Personally, I think God is a scientist. Look at the incredible things He created, and to do it He has to be the most gifted scientist ever. Human scientists are trying to learn how He did it, and they've made some amazing strides, but there is still a lot to learn. We've really just barely scratched the surface of all there is to learn. New discoveries and correct interpretation of those discoveries is essential. I do not believe that science and religion are totally opposite each other. I think they go hand in hand and that with time that will be proven.

The papacy has all but no credibility with me. The pope is an ordinary man who has raised his own significance to some extent above God. The fact that people give him a place of inflated importance doesn't make him anybody special. As the leader of so many people and a self proclaimed authority on God and life hereafter, he will be held to a higher standard. I'm going to be sitting on a cloud watching from as far away as possible at that time . . . I never held Jerry Falwell or any of the other religious leaders in very high esteem either. Most of them seem more intent on their own agenda than the one they claim to promote. The papacy has an horrendous history and I'm sure it will answer for it one day.

Do not imagine that people who hold themselves up as pious and perfect really meet their own standards. Stop judging God by His followers and by those people who claim to be His followers. All people are far, far from being perfect and will only disappoint you and then you will transfer that disappointment to God. He gave people a free will to claim Christianity or not, to behave in a Christian way while claiming that Christianity of not. Do not blame God for what evil humans have done and continue to do.

My previous husband objected to attending church because he said the people there were not even close, in many cases, to being the Christians they claimed to be. I told him, you should be going to God's House to be with God, not to mingle with the people there. All kinds of people are there, but that is not the reason to go there yourself. I strongly believe that if a person can't find God in their own heart, they are unlikely to find Him anywhere else either, including church.

If you trouble yourself to spend a few quiet moments with God everyday, all by yourself so your friends need not know, you will with patience get to know God for yourself rather than imagining what He is like by the way His so-called followers behave.

The New Testament of a modern English version Bible can be helpful, and I always recommend a person read it alongside a copy of the traditional King James Bible so that if there is question about the translation of any verse, one can see how it compares with the original -- the most original we have anymore.

To truly understand the Bible, one must know ancient history and one must read things in context. Singling out a particular verse from the text around it may change the meaning of that verse completely. Likewise, some verses require knowledge of test in other books of the Bible, not just verses, including knowledge of the Old Testament.

I have personally found no contradictions in the Bible as atheists are fond of accusing. If you attempt the Bible with the same attitude, skill, and knowledge as the Dick, Jane, and Sally series, you will be frustrated and disappointed.

No one knows the date that Jesus was born. Christmas is a pagan holiday and has been celebrated by different names for centuries starting before Christ walked this Earth. I have read the Bible several times and nowhere does it say when Christ was born. Jesus made everything He felt was important clear and gave direction and example of what He expects from His followers. Nowhere is His date of birth given. I think if He wanted or expected us to observe it He would have told us when and how He wanted us to do that just as He did with everything else he considered of importance.

One thing about the descriptions of Jesus birth is that the shepherds were in their fields and able to observe the star in Bethlehem. The shepherds are not usually in their fields in winter because the snow is deep at that time up in the mountains. They usually bring their flocks down in the fall, so a lot of Biblical scholars believe Jesus was in fact born in spring, but no one knows for a fact when it was.

The King James version of the Bible was written quite a while ago. It was completed in 1611. The only politics I see in it is where men interpret women as being lesser beings to some extent than men. In fact women will stand before God and answer for their own thoughts, words, and deeds, just as men will. If that isn't equality before God, what is it?

True that there are many versions of the Bible, but if one becomes familiar with God and His ways, knowing which ones are authentic is not a problem. I like the Tyndale Living Bible, myself.which was originally translated in 1525.

People have been asking God for a miracle as proof He exists and is who He says He is from the beginning of time. Indeed, the universe and everything in it, including this planet and everything on it is evidence of intelligent design and of God. If that doesn't convince you, nothing will.


SpaceShanty profile image

SpaceShanty 3 years ago from United Kingdom

Yes I did read the entire article, the main point being that many people would believe one thing that science told them and this turned out to be wrong. Could you not apply this principal to religion?

Even the Pope recently declared that the date which Jesus was born is probably wrong. The Bible has been rewritten so many times over centuries by so many people for their own personnel, political or monetary benefit that one cannot take it as 'Gospel'.

I do not think of Christians as 'silly', my mind is open to new ideas, if I was presented with more evidence for God's existence I would believe, however there is much more solid evidence that God does not exist.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

SpaceShanty, thank you for dropping in. Why do you think God's House needs protection from an act of God? Are you the person who determines whether or not an event is an act of God? How do you make your determination? How do you know that any particular event is an act of God?

There are two forces in this world, good and evil. For some reason everyone wants to attribute everything that happens, regardless of whether it is good or evil, to God.

You can think what you wish and if you had actually read this article in its entirety, you would know where I stand on that and you would not ask such foolish questions.

While you may be lying awake at night wringing your hands over all of us silly Christians, we are sleeping well, not at all concerned with what you believe.

The Bible has warned us that the evil one and his army of followers will come forth in many forms with all manner of excuses and reasons and explanations of why we should lose faith, but the harder you try to dissolve our faith, the more steadfast we become. If you want us to pray for your change of heart and salvation, keep it up. :)


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

phdast7, thank you for trying to respond to another commenter. I wrote this hub in response to the many accusations and ridiculous things atheists demand. He obviously didn't read even a word of this article and has just dumped one of his canned accusations in this comment section.

God is the source of all intelligence and knowledge and He has given some of that knowledge to inventors who produced a lightening rod to help protect. He gives other knowledge to doctors to heal. There are many talents, skills and different kinds of knowledge and God is the source of them all. He expects us to utilize the gifts He has given us. If not for Him, there would be no lightening rods and life on this planet would be short lived indeed, for many reasons.


SpaceShanty profile image

SpaceShanty 3 years ago from United Kingdom

phdast7 - No I was not joking, it was just an observation, why does 'God's house' need protection from an act of God?

Humans seem to have a spiritual predisposition, they worshiped the Sun, the Earth or a God.

If you were born 10,000 years ago you would probably worship some Earth god, if you grew up in a Muslim country you would probably worship Allah, if you grew up in a Christian country you probably worship God. This is not however proof that any God does exist.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Bobby, as you must know, Texas summers are Hell. This summer has only hit 100 degrees 2-3 times, so it's been cooler than usual so far, but the summer is really just getting started.

You asked me to let you know if I write elsewhere and I just published my first article on WikiNut. It's not really about sex ;), though future articles may be, not sure yet, but you can access my profile page here: http://www.wikinut.com/author~tjkjik/C.-E.-Clark/

Hope you are well . . . xx


diogenes profile image

diogenes 3 years ago from UK and Mexico

I yam, I yam, as I expect you are enjoying the almost perfect conditions in Texas.

Bob xx


phdast7 profile image

phdast7 3 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia

SpaceShanty - Interesting question I suppose, but in my understanding and world view, God is not a "sugar daddy, fireman, or electrician."

He is many things and fulfills many roles in our lives perhaps, but his function is not to insure that "nothing bad or tragic" ever happens to me.

No offense (and perhaps you were just joking), but to me, that is a small and limited way of apprehending the essence of God.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Shyron. Agree with what you say regarding God. Yes, it seems that a lot of things go back and forth as new discoveries are made, not just coffee.


SpaceShanty profile image

SpaceShanty 3 years ago from United Kingdom

If God does exist why do churches need lightning conductors? Just a thought.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Diogenes, for commenting on this hub. I thought the video explained how what we've always thought of as gravity pretty well, and I understand what keeps us from floating away. I actually found several articles that said Einstein determined that there is no such thing as gravity. It seemed pretty crazy to me when I first confronted it because I'd never heard even a whisper about that before.

The new concept, Einstein's Theory of Relativity, is a lot more complicated and I suspect part of the reason it isn't being taught is that it's so hard to understand. Beyond the understanding of a lot of people I'm sure. Hard to find teachers who understand it well enough to teach it.

Hope you're having a good week Bobby, and enjoying your summer on the warm days. ;) xox


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 3 years ago

If one believes no explanation or proof is necessary... If one does not believe no explanation or proof is possible.

Voted-up, pinned and shared.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 3 years ago from UK and Mexico

Read through parts of this article again, the better to digest my bacon and eggs. Re the gravity issue: Of course gravity exists (he intoned with no little gravity)..or is that gravitas? What has come to light (ahem) with Einstein and others is that the once called "weak force" has more esoteric explanations for its existence than we once thought. But the force that dumps you on your pretty butt when you slip on the icy paving is still there and constant. A duck is a duck is a bionic bird from Mars. Still quacks and walks in the mud. No one explanation works for many facets of human endeavour and strife. I mean, you see a tree and that is enough without all the biological and evolutionary facts for its being there. S---t it's too early for this stuff! Have a good weekend dear.

R ox


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 3 years ago

I had to come back to re-read this hub. I is strange if you like something and it is bad for you, just wait a year or two and it will no longer be bad for you it will be beneficial. Still love my coffee, good or bad.

Voted -up shared and pinned.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Samowhamo: Sam, thank you for reading this article and sharing your thoughts. Your father makes a good point.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

I do believe in God and do agree that God cannot be proven or disproven in believe there are some things science just can't explain. My father told me once if God does not exist where did the big bang come from if nothing existed before then, then where did it come from he believes God started it. I just wrote an article today about Man Playing God how humanity is trying to make itself a god by creating life genetically.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Aunt Jimi. Agree with what you say, and thanks for the votes, etc.


Aunt Jimi profile image

Aunt Jimi 3 years ago from The reddest of the Red states!

You certainly raise important issues here that people should think about. How anyone can look at something so complicated as a human being or any living creature and think it just happened by accident -- that all things happened by accident -- seems crazy to me. Up and all!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you ningali for commenting on this hub. I think if one truly believes in God and that He is the loving protector and provider that we are told He is, then why fear death? For that is when we go back to God.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Paul Kuehn for reading and commenting on this hub. Also for voting and sharing on FB and pinning. I consider it high praise indeed for you to get the point I was trying to make and to agree with it!

So many people don't even try to get through most of it and then if they do comment its in regard to their preconceived ideas because in fact they have not read this hub. Very much appreciate that you took the time to read through it all.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Davidwork, thank you for stopping by to leave a comment. I wish you had read all the 12 chapters you allude to. In no way have I criticized science. In fact I make that clear more than once in this megga-hub. Had you actually read it, you would know that. You might also have learned something despite already having all the answers. ;)

Science is what it is . . . an effort to learn about our world. There have been some great accomplishments, but we're a long way from knowing even a scratch worth's of information about our world. Every time we think we've got all the answers somebody invents a new technology or observes something new and different and then it's back to the drawing board to see how that affects the answers we thought we already knew. That's normal and natural for science and should be expected.

The problem is people who imagine that because we have learned so many amazing things that we can now swagger around self-satisfied believing we are all knowledgeable. With all we have learned, there is a gazillion times that much we have yet to learn.

This hub was about why science cannot prove whether or not God exists. It is not about how religion can prove whether of not science exists. Christianity is about faith. Science is about solid substance. Different, yet I think they go well together. I really believe God is the greatest scientist of all time -- look what He's created!

I know the history of the papacy. It has been guilty of some incredibly, mind boggling horrendous evil things. It was all about ignorance and power, and lots of people aren't so different today, religious or not.

I don't think it makes sense to hold God responsible -- He who gave us a free will -- for how some people have chosen to use that gift of a free will.

For sure a tremendous number of people over the centuries, and even now, twist the Bible and other holy books to suit themselves. It's impossible to recognize the Bible if you try to find the values promoted within it in some of the people who label themselves Christians.

Even if the Gospels had been written in the literal time of Christ, that in itself would not be proof of their authenticity. Christianity is accepted on faith. While religion and science have much in common, they are still very different.

Agree that people have though the centuries done some horrific things in the name of God, but they could just as well have done them in the name of DAVIDWORK. Had they done them in the name of DAVIDWORK, would that make you responsible for all of them, some of them, or any of them? Why not? If they did them for YOU, isn't that YOUR fault?

I do not hold God responsible for human evil. I hold the humans who perpetrated the evil responsible. Funny how men want to hold God responsible for their own short comings and evil and women want to hold other women responsible for their sweetie's tresspasses. No one wants to hold the actual wrong doer responsible for anything!

. . . and you talk about fiction? What is more fictitious than holding a God YOU don't believe exists to begin with, responsible for the ugly things humans do? What is crazier than blaming the woman one's husband seduced during his infidelity for what one's husband did, instead of blaming one's husband?

What happened to personal responsibility? Why is it always somebody else who is to blame? Just as gun users are to blame for killing, not the guns themselves, so people are to blame for the ugly things they did in the name of God -- or whatever religion they used as an excuse.

This hub is not about bashing science, it's about pointing out that science, in fact, does not have all the answers and won't have them any time soon. Stop trying to use science to prove or disprove God because science can't even get the simple things right that I have spotlighted in this hub.


ningali profile image

ningali 3 years ago

God, you brought me here and read a nice hub here. whereas, a few hours ago I did not know will read this hub. Where are you God? Verily God, you're Supernatural.

I just Imitate God's creation of the material that has been created by God, to post comments here... Am I not afraid of death? ^^

Thank you so much Au fait for this great hub (y)


Paul Kuehn profile image

Paul Kuehn 3 years ago from Udorn City, Thailand

Au fait,

This is an awesome hub and I'm glad that I took your advice and finally got around to reading it. Your argument is well taken in this hub. Scientific theories are constantly changing, and it is wrong to depend on the existence of a theory to explain the existence of God. Your videos explaining Einsten's theory of relativity are really good. Voted up and sharing with followers and on Facebook. Also Pinning.


Davidwork 3 years ago

Au Fait,

You criticise science for getting things wrong, but you seem to be unaware of, OR have deliberately omitted to mention, that religion has often got it wrong. The “people in power” that you mention in your second chapter were often RELIGIOUS people.

During the Inquisitions, it was religion that was persecuting people for discoveries that were later proven to be correct. The scientist Gordiani Bruni was burned alive by the Catholic Church for his theory that the universe was a limitless void and that the stars were separated from each other by great distances. (Not new knowledge, incidentally, the Chinese had known that centuries earlier).

It was Catholic priests that had people killed for believing that the Earth was a globe, not scientists.

In your twelfth chapter, you say, quote:

“Theories Do Not Equal Facts No Matter How Many People Believe Them”

Well, equally, religious stories do not equal facts, no matter how many people believe them.

People say “The Gospel Truth”, but there is no proof that the Gospels are true. Why? Because none of them were written when Christ is said to have lived, the earliest one is believed to have been written at least 40 years after his life; many Christian scholars and theologians disagree on where and when they were written.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

vespawoolf, thank you for reading and commenting on this hub, and for sharing your thoughts!


vespawoolf profile image

vespawoolf 3 years ago from Peru, South America

I so agree with you. Scientists are not infallible; they are only human. I found the fruit bat's eyesight and the health benefits of palm oil very interesting. I always take new nutrition information with a grain of salt as such ideas quickly become antiquated. It doesn't make any sense to believe only in what we can see, either. Very valid points--I enjoyed reading this. Thank you!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Knightheart, thank you for reading, and for sharing your thoughts on this subject so extensively! Glad you enjoyed reading this hub and so glad that you stopped by to comment!


Knightheart profile image

Knightheart 3 years ago from MIssouri, USA

Science has been proven to be wrong so many times that to rely on it as a basis of absolute fact in any given circumstance is unwise. So many variables are in every thing that exists...it is impossible to even know all the variables in a universe as vast as ours. Humanity thinks so highly of itself and this prideful state has led many astray. For centuries, man believed the Earth was the center of the universe and nobody could disprove it, but alas, someone finally did and the whole world changed at that moment.

Arrogant man, a flawed creation cannot be 100% accurate in anything. Science dictates that a bumblebee should not have the power of flight, but it does! You can't deny that when you see one flying in your face, but the laws of physics, more flawed science, say that bumblebee should not be able to fly.

I love science and am very interested in the huge vastness of this universe, and I don't believe many of the so called 'facts' scientists say are facts. Anything is a fact until something unknown comes along and upsets centuries of fact...just like the Earth revolving around the Sun fact. Seems like something totally unknown is discovered everyday. As with any new discovery, errors will occur and that is fine...it just contributes to the awe and mystery of creation from the smallest atoms to the enormous universe. I agree science is a vital part of our lives and great strides have been made, especially in the last 100 years, but again, nothing can compare to the glory of pure creation and how everything works together...planets throughout the universe hurtling at great speeds and rarely hitting! Now that is a miracle there...of course, God created this but He didn't stop there...all the laws we are just learning about have been in existence for eons...created by God himself to control the vastness of His creation. His hand is active every moment of every day...period.

The only fact I know is that everything, science, the universe, every microbe, atom, and things we haven't even discovered yet were created by God Almighty. Now that is a fact!!!! No universe as complex and as large as ours could happen by chance. The Big Bang Theory...hogwash. If there were such a thing, it was by the hand of God that it happened. How can order be created from absolute chaos...impossible, except when done by a higher power we can never fully comprehend. No human can say they can understand an all knowing, all powerful God unless they are so arrogant and prideful that they dare compare themselves to God. What a blessing it is that God does allow man with his science to begin making sense of very complex issues, but we will never come close to fully understanding anything no matter how advanced our science becomes!

Great article and good food for thought!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for stopping by Shyron. Glad you enjoy!


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 3 years ago

Awesome hub, as with most of yours, I have to read and then re-read.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Peggy W, thank you for reading, commenting, and especially sharing this hub! I think you give an excellent example of believing in something without seeing it. As several people have said, God is spirit and it is unlikely anyone will ever see Him, but we see His work all around us. Blaming Him, as seems to have always been popular, for bad choices so many people make just because He gave us all free will doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Hope you get a chance to view the videos on gravity because it's completely different from what it was when we learned about it in school. The videos are so helpful in explaining so I think most people will understand. Gravity doesn't exist as we have been taught to believe it does -- another example of scientific change as new info comes to light!


Peggy W profile image

Peggy W 3 years ago from Houston, Texas

Great thinking on your part! It is so true that what we believe as scientific facts today are often changed or refuted tomorrow as new information emerges. I did not take time right now to view those videos regarding gravity...but will come back and do so another time. As to believing in something we cannot see...we often do that as a matter of course. How do we "see" concepts like love? We might experience some of the effects of loving acts...but we cannot actually visualize the word meaning love. So it is with a belief in God.

Up, useful, interesting votes and sharing.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you rajan jolly for reading and commenting on this hub! Agree that everyone is free to exercise their religious beliefs, or not.

This hub was written in response to a barrage of forums from atheists who either said science had proven God doesn't exist, or who were demanding that Christians and others use science to prove He does exist. I am only pointing out here what you have said in your comments. Science is not yet in a place where it can prove much of anything much less whether or not God exists.


rajan jolly profile image

rajan jolly 3 years ago from From Mumbai, presently in Jalandhar,INDIA.

When science is yet an imperfect science, where its facts today, are made bite the dust tomorrow, it has no chance to prove the existence of God who cannot be known by any tangible means and methods. In this case, only absolute faith is the yardstick to know He exists.

That said, one's religious beliefs or non beliefs should not be a matter of discussion. Everyone is free to exercise his belief.

Great hub. Up & interesting.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 3 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you epigramman for reading, commenting, and sharing this hub!

God and His angels were in Heaven weeping, as they usually are when humans choose to use the free will He gave them to do unspeakably ugly evil things.

Had God not given all humans a free will, likely He would have given no humans a free will, including you and me. However He did give us all a free will, and sadly some people choose badly. We will all answer one day for our choices though that may be little comfort in the present.

It is people who use their free will, a gift from God, to do evil.


epigramman profile image

epigramman 3 years ago

You are definitely a hub treasure and it's an awesome writer/thinker like you who can always inspire the epi-man to write in the way he does. Yes I guess it's an idealistic question but I often wonder where God was during the shooting of all those innocent children yesterday or during the Holocaust - and the list goes on .... Naturally you have enough thoughts here to fill up several hubs and your gift is to be able to communicate the written word through your research and engage your readers in debate - hubbravo to you and I will share madly and gladly with a link and a post to the Hubpages FB group and sending you warm wishes and good energy from lake erie time ontario canada 6:45pm


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Jamie Brock, thank you for reading and commenting on my hub!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thanks for engaging in the discussion Charles H.


Jamie Brock profile image

Jamie Brock 4 years ago from Texas

Au fait- You are so right-on... the more I know, the more I realize that I don't know. I don't care what any human tells me to try to convince me otherwise, I KNOW God exists. There is a type of knowledge a person can gain that has nothing to do with what we see with our eyes. Great hub, voting up!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

This hub is getting longer and packed with more info all the time, so I hope you don't get too far behind. It does take some concentration. Thanks Shyron.


Charles Hilton 4 years ago

Thank you, Au fait. Your intellectual honesty is rare nowadays---and refreshing. And I couldn't have said it better. :-)


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you again Charles Hilton for commenting on my hub and adding to the discussion. Maybe all atheists do not claim to have scientific proof that God doesn't exist, but some do. I'm afraid there are 'slow' atheists just as there are 'slow' Christians. Both Christians and atheists have a few extremists among them.

You yourself gave the example that science was more logical, essentially because of it's weights and measures, procedures and scientific methods, etc. -- read your previous comments.

Agree that Christians are not perfect and I'm probably the least perfect among them, but there are some who label themselves Christian and then do some pretty egregious things in His name causing many people to turn away from God. To truly be a Christian one must do more than just put the Christian label on. One need not be perfect and is unlikely to attain that condition in this world, but if one truly gives their life over to Christ, Christ will work through a person so that one's works will show they belong to Him.

Despite what many people seem to think, being critical and judgmental and persecuting people because they are different is not Christian behavior. Standing around accusing other people of committing worse sins than oneself has committed is a waste of time. God has no sin rating chart. Pointing one's finger at other's who fall short of perfection is also a sin. Better to improve one's self and when perfection has been achieved there, one can start working on those people less perfect. ;)


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for your comment Diogenes. Yes, Satan tries to screw things up at every turn, but most people don't require assistance in that dept. and are quite competent at so doing on their own. People have a free will and if they choose to think themselves superior to other people with their free will, then that is what they do.

People cause wars regardless of why they choose to fight them. People choose to do all manner of ugly things in this world. That is what they choose to do with their gift of a free will. Do you have children? Do they have a free will or do you control their every thought and deed? If they call themselves Bob's children, should people then blame you if your children exercise their free will in unappreciated ways?

The Bible makes clear the reasons for suffering. God answers all prayers but people imagine if His answered is not to their liking that He has not answered at all.

People choose to do and say ugly things in the name of God. They choose to wear the label of Christian while they go about their hateful ugly deeds and one day they will regret it. Hide and watch.

***************

You say atheists do not say God does not exist, etc. Here is a short list I compiled from the forums. If you want to add more to this list, find them here on hubpages or on the Net for yourself. I have to work a paying job when I'm not here.

Quoates from the forum question: God doesn't exist, stop fooling yourself, slackers!

FreyaKraftposted 8 days ago

What evidence you have that God exists? You are lunatics that you would imagine a supernatural deity to invent the world. Madness in action. To be a little serious with you kindegerteners, it maybe that the Universe is just infinite. And human beings are just natural products. Stop wasting time preaching your God that doesn't exist.

FreyaKraftposted 8 days ago in reply to this

If you can't prove something, then that doesn't exist. If your approach is acceptable to understand the world and the universe, then I can as well say that a giant bird produced an egg and it burst to become the universe. There is little difference between my bird and your God, because both are without evidence.

If God exists within you, try to prove that. We need to see that in action.

FreyaKraftposted 8 days ago

Madness is telling people to believe in a God that no one has ever seen, and can't prove, anyway. Madness is denying that the cosmos can be infinite. And madness is wasting entire days in the religious forums of a website, called HubPages.

pisean282311posted 8 days ago

@freya pardon me to say this but stop wasting ur time...all religious heads know god doesnot exist but they use gullibility of humans to continue business of religion...logical argument serves no purpose...in end humans are too scared to not believe in god...

The Hoax called God

.

Grandysposted 3 weeks ago 

We all know how life works, and how the concept of supernatural is a myth. Come out now and confess that you want freedom from the hoax called God.

Why are we so afraid to accept that there is no God?

.

ElSeductorposted 6 weeks ago 

The reality is that we are alone in this eternal, dark, and cold universe. Why can't we accept this reality? Death is the end. There is no heaven, and there is no hell. We do not need religion in order to have a purpose in life. The purpose is to survive and not harm anyone in the process. Why do we need the fantasy of hell to keep us from doing wrong to our fellow humans?

ForumThe bible has now been proven worthless

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from Mark Knowles 7 days ago

So - it appears that the lie of the Hebrews enslaved by Egypt has now been proven wrong. This makes the entire bible story rather worthless.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/the … h-1.420844
http://waywrong.wordpress.com/2008/09/1 … them-free/
http://www.ourweekly.com/spiritual-livi … y-enslaved

Explore »Religion and Philosophy (20,644) »Exploring Religious Options (811) »God and Views of God (255)

by billgaede

Why God Doesn't Exist – Proof


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Do you have parents Mr. Hilton? Frankly, I don’t believe you do because I have never seen them and I do not know even one soul who has ever seen them. I think it is your imagination that you have parents. What proof can you furnish that you do in fact have parents?

Surly not one of those birth certificates or other identification documents that can be bought on many street corners that are such good quality they can even fool the U.S. state department. No, and all your friends and so-called relatives also have a reason to say they know you have parents, but can they prove you aren’t paying them to say it? That they are not in some way benefitting by pretending to know you have parents? Or maybe they’re just delusional like yourself when it comes to believing in the existence of parents. Since you cannot furnish acceptable proof that you have parents don’t you think it be more logical to accept that parents do not exist?

But you have seen your parents, yes? I have not and probably never will, and there are literally millions of other people besides myself who have and never will see your parents, but you have, so what are my chances of persuading you that you are delusional and creating your parents out of an overworked imagination? Not good I should think.

God has shown Himself to some of us and as a result we will not be persuaded that He does not exist. Many of us see proof of god all around us. Maybe that’s because we know what we’re looking for? Or maybe it’s because we recognize what is right under our noses without turning everything upside down in our search?

Maybe God will show Himself to you too one day, but whether that ever happens or not, I promise I will not lie awake at night worrying about what you believe or don’t believe. I am fine with letting you believe what you want to, just don’t hassle me about your beliefs, OK?

Billybuc said it so well in one of the comments above. Read what he said. He has a very good attitude about this and I agree with his comments.

If I had not read so many ridiculous statements by atheists in the forums a couple of weeks ago, I would not even have written about this subject. How one feels about God – or not – is a very personal thing and no one can enter into that relationship between God and any other person. We can talk about our own experiences and we can try to assist in interpretations, but beyond that it’s all between you and Him if you so choose. That’s what a free choice is all about. You can believe or not.

All Christians are warned in the Bible that many people will come along and attempt to persuade us from our loyalty to God, and so for those of us who are steadfast, your persuasions have to opposite affect you are trying for. The Bible even says God makes a mockery of wise men who think they know more than God and believe they do not need Him. Most of us are inoculated, so you’re wasting your breath.

Works do not earn salvation, but works do identify those people who have received salvation. If they say they are Christian and do ugly things, then you know the truth of who they are. Do not blame God when someone exercises their free will to do ugly things in His name. What they do with their freedom is their choice just as you can do what you will with your free will. Do not blame God for their decisions or yours. Everyone will answer for their decisions, thoughts, words, deeds, etc., at some point.

You are correct in that even God is not so powerful that He can change the law. If the law could be changed, God’s son would not have needed to die to fulfill that law. What Jesus went through was pretty horrific. Don’t you think a loving father would have sooner snapped his fingers and changed the law that way if it were possible to do so and spared His Son such horrible experiences?

Perhaps you have been listening to the wrong religious messages? Christians are not a monolith. Not all of us believe in rituals. Only God and His Son are infallible. No human is infallible. We all make mistakes, and bad decisions sometimes. Despite the fact that God is a very old guy now, He really doesn’t need help in making judgments or carrying out punishments.

A lot of ignorant people really believe they are doing the right thing when they say ugly things and do ugly things to people who are different from themselves, but they are forgetting the most important part of the message which is mercy and forgiveness. Love one another.

God is perfectly able to punish anyone who needs it without the assistance of people who believe they are acting in His name. Those people need to stop imagining they are doing His will and start doing what God has assigned them to do. Help the less fortunate and give kindness and love to all living things.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Charles Hilton, thank you for commenting on my hub.

Did you happen to read that part of this hub where I said many scientists, including one of my science instructors at the university pointed out that science is not set in stone because new research and new technology are always changing their findings? Sounds like you missed that part.

I think you can hypothesize and theorize until you turn blue, but if those hypothesis and theories are wrong, they’re wrong. Even measuring, reviewing, and dissecting them won’t make them right. A lot of very valuable things in this world cannot be poked and prodded and experimented on. Can you measure love? Compassion? Courage? How would you quantify and qualify these things? Since you can’t, does that mean they do not exist? Admittedly, there are times when it seems they are at a minimun.

Has Mr. Dawkins looked around to see if there is any evidence to support courage, compassion, or love? Must everyone have these qualities and characteristics to prove they are authentic? Or does just one person lacking in even one of these qualities mean that no one has them and that they do not exist?

I think it’s interesting that atheists insist that religion claims to be all knowing when atheists by definition have little if any experience or knowledge of religion. I have studied the Bible more than most people. I do not think there is such a thing as an expert on the Bible though there are many scholars who are no doubt more knowledgeable about it than I.

Never have I heard any pastor say that religion knows everything. I’m not sure what you mean when you say religion because even all Christian religions have differences just as individual people do.

While the answers to pretty much everything are in the Bible, not everyone is gifted at discerning those answers or recognizing the answer when it’s right in front of them. That’s true about God and it’s true about a great many ordinary things we all deal with every day. How often have you or someone you know misplaced something only to discover after turning everything upside down that it was right their in front of you/them the whole time? You simply didn’t see it. Many of the people who read the Bible never understand what they are reading. That doesn’t mean the answers aren’t there. It means the person reading is not capable of understanding. That’s true of many reading materials not just the Bible.

Only the pope claims infalability. The pope is not the leader of all Christian religions and some of us see him for what he is. An ordinary guy with too much power and money at his disposal.

I agree wholeheartedly that many people who label themselves Christian do nothing at all to exemplify what Christianity is about. Since God gave us all a free will is He to be blamed and crucified over and over again because some people exercise this free will and choose to lie and do terrible things in His name that He never authorized or sanctified?

The world is full of arrogant people. Incredible how many of them judge others by themselves because they imagine that of all people on earth only they and those like themselves are perfect. In reality no one is perfect. You can’t see through the ignorance of these people? You believe them when they say they’re all knowing when in fact they know nothing and all they are doing is driving people away from God in their ignorance and intolerance. There is no greater sin than turning people away from God whether with good intentions or otherwise.

Have you ever heard the expression “All that glitters is not gold?” That means everything is not always as it appears. Beautiful people aren’t always so beautiful where it really matters. Friends aren’t always true friends. Everything isn’t always what it’s cracked up to be.

Personally, I think if the only way you can tell someone is a Christian is because they told you so, then most likely they aren’t what they claim to be. The best sermon is the one you live, not the one you preach.

Basing your beliefs on God because of a lot of science experiments that so far have not been able to stand the test of time is not my idea of logic.

I never said science was arrogant. Why do Conservatives so love to twist words and make accusations that are not true? I said people who imagine they can prove God’s existence with imperfect science are arrogant. Many atheists are arrogant.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Brett.Tesol for reading and commenting on this hub!

And for sharing. Science is pretty amazing really, but just as the ancient wise men thought they had all the answers and were a long, long way from that in fact, so we also have a long way to go to prove God or not, despite having come such a long way from those ancient times.

Have a great day!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

William Young, thank you for reading and commenting on my hub! And thanks for the follow!

Really, nothing Einstein has come up with has been proven in it's entirety. I gave the example in my hub that scientists believe they have proven 2 points of Eintstein's theory on gravity just a few years ago, but not the entire theory. They're still working on the other parts of that theory. Nearly everything relating to the Theory of Relativity remains today as still a theory, not a fact.

Have a good evening . . .


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for reading and commenting on my hub 50 caliber! I think only death is certain. 7,000 millionaires paid no taxes in 2011, and that's just the ones they bothered to count. Take care . . .


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 4 years ago

I am still reading this hub, to many interuptions at the moment!


Charles Hilton 4 years ago

Au Fait, you misspeak when you insist that Atheists try to 'prove' that God doesn't exist. They do no such thing. They only insist that those who claim there is a God to prove it.

As I'm sure you know, the onus is always on the one claiming a positive, never on the one claiming the negative.

And it's not that Atheists rely on the 'scientific method' per se for their disbelief. Something like the notion of an all-powerful creator can't be put in a test-tube and analyzed. The notion of God is an abstract, and as such, can't be tested scientifically. But, the claims ABOUT God by those who claim to know 'him' can be---and have been---refuted on the basis of logic and consistency.

In my opinion, every claim about God expressed in religious dogma can be wrong and God still exist. In fact, it would be my wildest fantasy to see religious bigots and ideologues stand before God at the end of days to hear themselves condemned for their hypocrisy and far-reaching assumptions.

But, I'm not selling the farm just yet. lol

Have a nice weekend. :~)


diogenes profile image

diogenes 4 years ago from UK and Mexico

'Scuse me popping in again. Atheists - at least this one - don't insist God - or gods - do not exist, any more than they insist there is no life on other planets or UFO's are nonsense. They just have no personal evidence of these phenomena and until some is found they remain unconvinced. I mean, God. What form would he (she) take? What is the benefit of God's supposed actions for the benefit of us all if the component parts (the individual) continues to suffer? Why does religion remain such a contentious matter that causes wars and personal conflicts unceasingly. Why does God answer one but not another if their interests are equal yet opposed (two boxers for example).

Surely this imagined and all powerful Being, if he/she existed, would arrange matters a little better?

Or is it the Devil screwing things up??

Bob x


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Frank Atanacio, for reading and commenting on my hub.

I am only responding to nonbelievers in God who insist that God does not exist based on an imperfect science that is a long way from proving much of anything, even after centuries of research and experiments. No matter how many scientific methods one uses, if the results are wrong, their wrong. How one comes to those wrong conclusions seems irrelevant to me. Using the scientific method to get wrong results doesn't change the wrong results.

I don't object to atheists refusing to believe. I just think they should own their beliefs instead of blaming science for them. Insisting anyone with a different opinion from their own must prove their reasoning is hypocritical since they have no proof for their own.

I'm for live and let live. I won't ask atheists for justification for their beliefs if they do not ask for mine.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

NathanielZhu: Thank you for commenting on my hub.

First of all, it is not I who is asking for proof God exists. If you read my hub in its entirety, you would know that God has already furnished me proof, even though I didn't require it or ask for it. This hub is not about me asking for proof, its about atheists REQUIRING proof from Christians.

Day after day for a long time I saw posting by atheists in the forums demanding proof from Christians that God exists and I saw postings by atheists giving examples from science that He does not. It's also pretty easy to find these same examples of atheists bashing Christians and God elsewhere on the Net.

Consider this Nathaniel. If your banker lost all of your money, and until he could figure out what happened to it you were without funds, your bills going unpaid, etc., would you consider your banker reliable? How many times would your banker have to screw up, losing your money or paying other people's bills out of your account and a variety of other 'mistakes' before you considered him/her unreliable and moved your bank acct,?

If you were an employer and one or more of your employees came in late everyday and often, at least twice a week, they didn't show up at all, didn't call in, etc., would you consider this employee reliable?

If you purchased some high dollar items from a store only to get home and discover the various prices had been added up wrong and you were overcharged fifty or more dollars, would you think this business unreliable? What if the next time you made a purchase there the same thing happened; how many purchases would you have to make where you had been overcharged, sometimes just a few dollars, other times several hundred dollars, before you would consider that business unreliable?

I do understand the scientific method, and I do understand that science changes its facts when new information becomes available due to additional research, more specific research, technology, and other credible reasons, but that only means we aren't there yet. We have very few answers. Science, by its own admission has been wrong numerous times and as I have already said in my hub, I could write a book about those wrongs because there are dozens if not hundreds of them.

So yes, Nathaniel, I am seriously saying that science is unreliable. I am saying that atheists are basing their beliefs on smoke and mirrors. Until we have absolute facts that do not change over time on everything in our world, science remains incomplete and subject to change on everything it says is fact. If scientists cannot solve cancer, diabetes, or other illness, even aging such as you are interested in, how can anyone imagine science can prove God exists or not?

I do not think badly of someone because of their religion or lack there of. I made that clear in my hub. Did you read that far? I'm guessing no, you did not.

Honestly, I do not believe you read my hub in its entirety because if you had, I think you would have written different comments.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you for your comments Shyron. Be sure to watch the videos and get up to speed on gravity and the time/space issue.


Charles Hilton 4 years ago

You're implication that atheists err in the same way that religious people do because science is imperfect is misleading, at best.

Contrary to your assertions, atheists don't claim science to be perfect. Scientists, themselves, would be the last to claim that science is perfect. Unlike religious fundamentalists, who claim their particular belief systems to have the answers to all of life's mysteries and dilemmas and to be the solution to all the world's problems.

Unlike fundamentalism, science doesn't claim infallibility---never has.

What differentiates science from religion is their methodologies. Science is in search of knowledge and answers through the application of hypothesis and testing and peer review, etc., whereas, religion has always claimed to already possess all knowledge, by virtue of some voice from the sky or mystical vision or sacred text.

As for believing in the existence of God, even Richard Dawkins said in an interview that he isn't 100% certain that there is no God, but, that the evidence doesn't support it.

And like him, I prefer evidence and logic instead of relying on voices, dreams, or a book written by ignorant desert nomads for my cosmology.

And, while I acknowledge that science can be arrogant, the arrogance of fundamentalist religion is far greater.

Science is imperfect, but, the presumption, intellectual vacuity and petty, hypocritical morality of fundamentalist religion is breathtaking. Even dangerous.

You've written a compelling, provocative hub, and I vote it up, even though I think you're mixing apples and oranges with your premise.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Jake4102, thank you for making a small comment on my hub. Be aware that putting URLs to advertise yourself in comments is against hubpages rules and be grateful I didn't delete your comment as a result. I figure everyone is entitled to a mistake once in a while.

I read your hub and found no connection to my hub in it. I did see a lot of conjecture on your part because you obviously did not in fact read my hub.

You strongly insinuate my hub is merely the result of a Christian saying science is wrong in an effort to make religion look good. My references for the scientific wrongs are National Geographic and PBS. These references are not religious entities. Have no idea where you got the idea that they are.

Normally I don't call commenters out, but if you accuse me of something I didn't do, I guarantee I will defend myself. The scientific wrongs I shed light on are confessions of the scientific community itself. It takes only seconds to verify my references.

Since atheists continually demand Christians prove God exists or in some cases insist science has proven God does not exist, they need to be aware that they are claiming to base their beliefs on an unreliable, imperfect science. Talk about being illogical . . .

Why don't atheists just admit they believe what they believe because they believe it? Stop blaming science for their beliefs. Take responsibility for their own beliefs. They don't have to justify their beliefs to me or anyone else, so why drag science into it and demand that other people do the same?


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Angela Blair, thank you for reading and commenting! I agree with you regarding faith.

My reason for writing this hub was to point out that while atheists think Christians base our beliefs on fairy tales, superstition, and wishful thinking, they are basing their beliefs on an imperfect science that is a long, long way from having many if any answers about anything. It was and is not my intent to bash science, but to present scientific facts for what they are -- ever changing and improving because we are a long way from understanding the things of this planet.


Brett.Tesol profile image

Brett.Tesol 4 years ago from Somewhere in Asia

An amazing hub, you really spent some time putting all of that together. Scientist are basically making educated guesses based on what they can prove/theorize with the present knowledge/technology. As you say, it certainly is not set in stone, nor even close to being 100% accurate.

Up, interesting twice, awesome and shared.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Sparkster for taking time to comment.


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you billybuc for commenting on my hub and sharing your view. I agree with you. If you read my "opinion" at the end of the hub, you know that we're pretty much on the same page. Have a good evening!


William Young profile image

William Young 4 years ago from Eaglle Grove, Iowa

Very interesting Hub! I think, if I'm not mistaken that Einstein even proved in theory that time travel was possible. This is fascinating stuff to think about!


Au fait profile image

Au fait 4 years ago from North Texas Author

Thank you Diogenes, for reading and commenting! I agree that no one should be asked to prove a negative, nor do I think anyone should have to prove the positive where God is concerned.

This hub is in response to two types of your fellow non-believers. One insists science has proven God does not and cannot exist, and the other non-believers continually demand that Christians prove God does exist, and presumably by scientific means.

My point is that science has a loooooooooog way to go before it is capable of proving either, if indeed that will ever be possible. Personally, I don't give a damn one way or the other (I know what I believe and nothing will change my mind), but apparently this issue keeps atheists awake at night. The idea that anyone in the world disagrees with them is just more than some of them can handle. I'm for live and let live. ;)

Thank you for such high marks! Coming from you that is an honor indeed.


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 4 years ago from Arizona

Super write of interesting proportion, well written as well as an easy to read piece I would normally fall out mid article vote up and run, I saw enlightenment here towards the end an argument I've held since the dark ages.

As a kid we were told to fill a pail half full of water, grasp the handle and sling it round and round, Magic the water didn't come out. That was gravity. I didn't get it and argued that the water would sling out if there was a hole in the bottom, so how is that or the spinning of earth, gravity? Simple answer, who would have a pail with a hole in it?Then why doesn't the spin of earth throw us off into space? Go away boy you bother me..... who's the science teacher here...........

I don't know how it all works, that teacher was enough for me to put science in the circular file LOL.

You have brought me back with this article to where I left off in life, that the only thing that remains constant is death and taxes and my Faith in the Almighty and that spiritual life trumps flesh life in the end and that is what matters,

Peace and Blessings,

50


Frank Atanacio profile image

Frank Atanacio 4 years ago from Shelton

What a terrific article.. and it opens so many doors of arguments.. I believe there is a higher power.. even higher then science.. but that's what I believe.. nonetheless you have a powerful hub.. and it never hurts to think outside the science box.. Bless you


NathanielZhu profile image

NathanielZhu 4 years ago from Virginia Beach

Science makes mistakes, but you seriously can't be suggesting that because science makes mistakes that it isn't reliable. The fact that one can dream up/believe a God without any evidence - only the circumstance of our birth is automatically something against "God". When children are asked what is the purpose of the Earth, the majority responds with metaphysical answers such as "So that unicorns can live on it". It is thus illogical to ask science to disprove a figure of fantasy especially when there is an infinite number of fantasies.


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 4 years ago

Great hub! There are no dis believers in hell, to bad they believe to late.

Yes, I believe in God. I will have to re-read to understand gravity.


Jake4102 profile image

Jake4102 4 years ago from Nebraska USA

I liked your hub. It was very well written. However, I disagree with some of your points in your hub. I wrote a response to your hub in the form of another hub! Enjoy!

http://hubpages.com/politics/Science-and-Religion-...

Good job! Voted up!


Angela Blair profile image

Angela Blair 4 years ago from Central Texas

Excellent, excellent Hub with super information. Perhaps personal faith, which one can choose to have on any subject whether it be on the nutritional value of eggs or whether God exists or not is where all this will always stand with most of us. As I understand it, faith is the belief in things unseen -- and that, to my way of thinking, will always be the bottom line for each of us. Again, I truly enjoyed this Hub. Best/Sis


sparkster profile image

sparkster 4 years ago from United Kingdom

Nothing exists, just our perception of it (collective consciousness).


billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

A very logical argument, one I can't find fault in. I never get into a discussion about the existence of God with anyone. Why? Because I don't care what your beliefs are, or anyone else's. I do not need proof about something based on faith.....that negates the meaning of faith. I want the same respect passed to me....leave me alone to believe anything I want to believe, and we will both live in peace and harmony.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 4 years ago from UK and Mexico

Good article, Missy. But I would point out that science, if it has any obligation in the matter, would have to prove that god, or gods, exist. No one should be asked to prove a negative, which is what we had before man began to postulate metaphysical beings inhabit this universe.

There may be no way to prove any absolute in this universe (including what the "universe" is). I mean, the world is still flat when viewed from one dimension!

Voted highly

Bob

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