The Large Family is Pathological, Part 2/2

The large family is detrimental in myriads of ways.It has an inverse psychology in terms of family dynamics.In large families,want, poverty,& struggle are considered good.Individualized parental attention& involvement are viewed as bad.
The large family is detrimental in myriads of ways.It has an inverse psychology in terms of family dynamics.In large families,want, poverty,& struggle are considered good.Individualized parental attention& involvement are viewed as bad.

Scarcity/Poverty Mentality in Large Families

Many children from large families see poverty & struggle as acceptable.Many see it as the only legitimate way of life. They maintain that poverty & struggle are great things. In fact, they see these things as good psychologically.
Many children from large families see poverty & struggle as acceptable.Many see it as the only legitimate way of life. They maintain that poverty & struggle are great things. In fact, they see these things as good psychologically.
Many children from large families look suspiciously upon socioeconomic affluence & wealth.They see such things as materialistic, greedy &/or wasteful. They contend that all one needs is just to live a basic level of existence, no more no less.
Many children from large families look suspiciously upon socioeconomic affluence & wealth.They see such things as materialistic, greedy &/or wasteful. They contend that all one needs is just to live a basic level of existence, no more no less.
Many children from large families view more socioeconomic children as spoiled because the latter has an easier life than they did. They simply can't comprehend that NOT everyone has a hardscrabble life as they do.
Many children from large families view more socioeconomic children as spoiled because the latter has an easier life than they did. They simply can't comprehend that NOT everyone has a hardscrabble life as they do.

X. SCARCITY MENTALITY OF LARGE FAMILIES

Part 2 and concluding chapter.

Many children who grew up in large families tend to have a poverty consciousness. Constant socioeconomic struggle and/or want is a way of life. Some even believe that struggle is the only legitimate way of life. They are unable to see a more socioeconomic conducive way of life.They view socioeconomic struggle as a noble and/or positive thing. The average person from a large family contends that he/she is the better person because he/she had very little as children.

Children from large families view socioeconomic affluence with deep suspicion. They are of the school that socioeconomic affluence and/or wealth is materialistic and wasteful. They even feel that such affluence and/or wealth, which are normal for many people, are insidiously extravagant. In their eyes, socioeconomic and/or wealthy people are greedy and selfish. Many contend that children from socioeconomic affluent and/or wealthy families are spoiled because they have the money to purchase things beyond the necessities. They believe that people should live at the most basic existence level socioeconomically and no more. They see nothing at all wrong with poverty.

Children from large families believe that life should be hard because they endure arduous and/or hardscrabble lives. They do not and/or will not understand that a hard life is not the way it should be. Many of them, because they had an extremely difficult life, believe that they are superior and/or better than those whose lives were easier as children.






Children as Adults in the Large Family System

Children in large families have to assume adult roles early in life. As their parents are unable to be available to a large number of children, they must learn to raise & look after themselves in almost every way possible.
Children in large families have to assume adult roles early in life. As their parents are unable to be available to a large number of children, they must learn to raise & look after themselves in almost every way possible.
Children in large families oftentimes have to work in order to purchase the things that their parents simply can't provide. In large families, it is hard enough for parents to provide for the bare necessities.
Children in large families oftentimes have to work in order to purchase the things that their parents simply can't provide. In large families, it is hard enough for parents to provide for the bare necessities.
In addition to raising themselves,there are  children in large families,esp. older children, who assume parenting duties for younger siblings.Some parents give birth, assignng the newborn siblings to older ones.These parents are parents in name only.
In addition to raising themselves,there are children in large families,esp. older children, who assume parenting duties for younger siblings.Some parents give birth, assignng the newborn siblings to older ones.These parents are parents in name only.

XI. CHILDREN ASSUMING ADULT ROLES IN LARGE FAMILIES

It is not unusual for children from large families to assume adult roles in the family. It is routine for children in large families to assume adult roles, responsibilities, and/or duties very early in life. The idea of a normative, carefree childhood is foreign to many children in large families. In large families, parental attention, influence, involvement, and/or love are next to non-existent. Children have to learn to parent themselves from childhood. In some cases, they have to parent other children, especially the older children in the family.

In addition to children in large families emotionally supporting themselves and each other, they oftentimes to work in order to acquire things that other children taken for granted. In large families, parents can barely support their children beyond the bare rudiments. If the latter want something extra or even normal items, they have to work for it. Many children from large families have after-school and weekend in addition to summer jobs in get things beyond the necessities. There are cases in which some children work in order to supplement their parents' very meager income. Their parents could not make it alone socioeconomically so they need as many helpers as they can to supplement the family income.

Besides caring for and raising themselves, many children in large families parent their younger siblings. It is customary for parents in large families to assign child-rearing duties to their older children. Many parents of large families find it overwhelming to raise a large number of children by themselves. It is an impossibility so they assign younger siblings to the care of the older children in the family. In typical large families, oldest children are the real parents in the family. The Duggar clan regularly assign each newborn sibling to the care of their older children. Parents of large families are parents in name only, giving birth and not being actually involved in the care of their children. They become involved with their children only when absolutely necessary.

More Hands Off Parenting in Large Families

Parental styles in many large families are oftentimes hands off.To them, their children are quite capable of raising & teaching themselves It's often difficult enough for them to think of how the family would socioecomically survive day-to-day.
Parental styles in many large families are oftentimes hands off.To them, their children are quite capable of raising & teaching themselves It's often difficult enough for them to think of how the family would socioecomically survive day-to-day.
It is the belief of many parents of large families that so long as their children's basic needs are met, they are on their own. They really see individualized parent-child time as totally unnecessary.After all,isn't that what their SIBLINGS are for?
It is the belief of many parents of large families that so long as their children's basic needs are met, they are on their own. They really see individualized parent-child time as totally unnecessary.After all,isn't that what their SIBLINGS are for?
To parents of large families, individualized parental attention & care is seen as overindulging & spoiling children. They feel that children really do not need to spend so much time with their parents.
To parents of large families, individualized parental attention & care is seen as overindulging & spoiling children. They feel that children really do not need to spend so much time with their parents.
Many children from large families view the parent-child dynamics of small families to be quite strange.Since they didn't have much parent-child interaction,they're puzzled at the close relationships children from small families have w/their parents.
Many children from large families view the parent-child dynamics of small families to be quite strange.Since they didn't have much parent-child interaction,they're puzzled at the close relationships children from small families have w/their parents.
People in large families do not have the closeness w/their parents that their counterparts in small families have. In fact, they can't recall this parent-child closeness However, they admit that their sibling relationships were very intense & close.
People in large families do not have the closeness w/their parents that their counterparts in small families have. In fact, they can't recall this parent-child closeness However, they admit that their sibling relationships were very intense & close.

XII. PARENTAL ATTITUDES IN LARGE FAMILIES

Parents of large families are of the attitude that children raise themselves. They are so involved with the day to day concerns to trying to find ways to survive socioeconomically and to provide their family with just enough rudiments. They really do not have the time to really be involved and nurturing, and be there parents for their children. They are of the school that children are highly capable and can do things for themselves.

Parents of large families believe that it is not necessary for parents to always be supervising and interacting with their children. They contend that their children can successfully navigate their own environment. They feel that their hands off approach to parenting makes their children better people in the long run. They furthermore aver that children do not need this individualized parental attention. They are of the belief that with the large amount of children they are, they are lucky if they receive any type of attention at all. To them, the youngest children will receive the more individualized attention as they are more vulnerable. The older ones, they believe, can look after themselves. All in all, parents of large families simply cannot indulge in more interactive parenting with their children.

Some parents of large families strongly believe that individualized parental time is spoiling children. They see nothing wrong with their hands off approach to parenting. They believe that the concept of giving children individualized parental time is really not necessary for their development. They feel that the older children really do not need to spend time with them anyway, the latter have siblings near their age to interact with.

As a result of this parent-child dynamic, many children from large families see the parent-child dynamic in small families as overindulgent. Many children from large families because they have so little interaction with their parents view their counterparts from small families as spoiled because the latter had individualized parental time and attention. They are also quite nonplussed that children even have close relationships with their parents. That is totally unheard in the large family environment. The average child from a large families cannot recall close and loving relationships with their parents at all but they easily and readily recall close relationships with their siblings.



Strictness as a Way of Establishing Control in the Large Family Structure

While some parents in large families have a more laissez faire parenting approach, there are others who adopt a stricter,authoritarian parenting approach.They become extremely strict in order to exercise control over their large number of children.
While some parents in large families have a more laissez faire parenting approach, there are others who adopt a stricter,authoritarian parenting approach.They become extremely strict in order to exercise control over their large number of children.
They assert that by establilshing & implementing strict rules& regulations,the family household will be more organized in that children will know their  place & relationship w/n the family structure. Rules means less pressure on the parents.
They assert that by establilshing & implementing strict rules& regulations,the family household will be more organized in that children will know their place & relationship w/n the family structure. Rules means less pressure on the parents.
Many children from large families report being raised like they were in the military w/ the overemphasis on rules. They believe that parents believed that the enforcement of rules took precedence over their feelings  & sense of humanity.
Many children from large families report being raised like they were in the military w/ the overemphasis on rules. They believe that parents believed that the enforcement of rules took precedence over their feelings & sense of humanity.

XIII. STRICTNESS IN LARGE FAMILIES

While some parents in large families adopt the more or less laissez faire parenting approach, others adopt a more authoritarian parenting approach. Since there is a large number of children in the family, they become overly strict with their children as a means of exercising levels of control.

These parents staunchly believe in establishing and implementing strict rules because they feel that this is an easier and more organized way to raise them. In many large families, adopting a strict approach is a way to prevent chaos and other forms of disorganization among children. These parents maintain that by establishing stringent rules and parameters everyone will know their place and their respective relationship in the household. They further believe that implementing these rules makes life more emotionally and psychologically less taxing on them as they have enough, even more, than enough to contend with.

Many children from large families recall being raised as if they were in the military. They report that their parents refuse to take into account that the rules did not take into account the latter's individual differences as the rules applied to everyone regardless of birth order status. They relayed that their parents wanted a functioning household above all else.

Lower Level of Educational Attainment & Lower Levels of Socioeconomic Success for Children from Large Families

Social scientists & economists show that the larger the family,the less economic resources per child.Parents of large families can't send their children to private schools thus they go to public schools where the quality of education is poorer.
Social scientists & economists show that the larger the family,the less economic resources per child.Parents of large families can't send their children to private schools thus they go to public schools where the quality of education is poorer.
Many children in large families may have to drop out of school, obtaining jobs to supplement family income. W/low education levels, they will be relegated to lower level positions thus continuing the family cycle of poverty.
Many children in large families may have to drop out of school, obtaining jobs to supplement family income. W/low education levels, they will be relegated to lower level positions thus continuing the family cycle of poverty.

XIV. LARGE FAMILIES AND THE RELATION TO MORE NEGATIVE EDUCATIONAL & SOCIOECONOMIC OUTCOMES

In large families, there is less money per child than there is in small families. As a result of this, many children from large families cannot afford to go to private school, settling for public education where the quality of education is oftentimes inferior. Because parents have less than adequate economic resources, many children from large families cannot pursue tertiary levels of education. In the average large family, because of tight finances, many children oftentimes must drop out of school at the secondary level in order to be the second bread winner in the family. Since they did not continue their education, they will be relegated to low paying jobs thus continuing the family cycle of poverty.

Studies have already confirmed that the larger the family, the least likely children will attain a high level of education as socioeconomic resources are further diluted with the birth of each successive child into the family. A study by Becker (1981) indicated that the larger the family, the less socioeconomic resources parents have to invest per child. Economists maintain that there more constraints on parental time and resources with each new sibling in the family structure. An article from the NEW YORK DAILY NEWS decades ago confirmed that children from large families tend to be more socioeconomically disadvantaged, even in adulthood, as a result of their low educational level which result in their obtaining lower level positions. Children in large families are the least socioeconomic affluent of all children.

In large families, the normative family dynamics are oftentimes reversed. However, more people are seeing the detriments of large families and are opting for small families which have immense benefits for all concerned.
In large families, the normative family dynamics are oftentimes reversed. However, more people are seeing the detriments of large families and are opting for small families which have immense benefits for all concerned.

Conclusion

The large family is pathological in many ways. The family dynamics of the large families is oftentimes inverse. Children instead of parents are the adults of the family. Poverty and struggle are seen as an acceptable, even legitimate way of life, instead of something to be improved upon or to overcome. Individualized care and attention to children are viewed as overindulgence or spoiling. Socioeconomic affluence is seen as grossly materialistic. However, more and more people are seeing the detriments of the large family to all members involved. Intelligent people are opting for small families which have myriad benefits emotionally, psychologically, and socioeconomically for all family members involved.

© 2011 Grace Marguerite Williams

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Comments 52 comments

suzeeeq2 5 years ago

GM

Thanks for your article, I keep searching and searching for some articulation of how I feel being number 6 or whatever of 10 children.

Very validating thanks.

Add being raised by my oldest bro with schizophrenia and it compounds.

This invisible child is now in her late 40's. the consummate helper of others but untrusting of close relationships. I finally realize how I feel as i have uncovered my addiction to helping. ugh. no family contact. I think I now realize how much I hated growing up in that family. now I heal


mochamommadec 4 years ago

I sure don't think that a couple who has 19 kids is mentally healthy. And I agree that they are selfish and narcissistic. They are selfish because they think they have the right to have 19 children, and nobody has that right in this overpopulated world. If they were true Christians, and unselfish, they would adopt a dozen kids rather than breed them. I agree that their children are unhealthy, at least mentally. The males are being raised to think of women as uneducated breeding sows, and the females are being raised to think this of themselves. The whole family is in need of psychiatric care. And why does this matter to me? It matters because so many people are using the Duggars as a standard to justify having large families on an overpopulated planet. And when the sole breadwinner of these families becomes ill/is laid off/dies, and the families do not have TV shows and all of the other financial backups that the Duggars have suckered others into providing for them, who foots the bill to pay for the care of the newly destitute family? We do. We who chose to reproduce responsibly are expected to fork over tax dollars to pay for these large litters created by self-righteous, irresponsible breeders. I don't WANT to pay for YOUR Duggar-like litter. You made 'em, you support 'em. If something happens to your breadwinner, I will gladly have my tax dollars go towards helping with five members of your family. Any family can end up having something happen that is beyond their control. Beyond that five, no thanks. You should have thought about the possible consequences of having a megafamily before you let "God take care of the opening and closing of the uterus". Hey, let God take care of feeding your litter because I would rather have a new car than feed your kids. Lots of people feel this way but they are ashamed to say it. I am not. I don't get up and go to work every day to feed the kids of mostly uneducated stay-at-home mothers who use their bodies to avoid going to work.


mochamommadec 4 years ago

As an educated woman and a healthcare professional, I am truly amazed that you cannot see that you are contributing to the overpopulation of a fragile planet. I can understand a woman with little education opting to have a large family so that she can justify not working. However, when a doctor does that, it seems absurd. Family planning is not just a personal decision. The parameters that govern the number of children that a family has should be a social responsibility, especially for those who are educated enough to see the larger picture.

Just shaking my head.


mochamommadec 4 years ago

"single mothers who struggle for opportunities to grow without support, or the many single mothers on welfare who have child after child without any responsibility for their welfare (as a doc I've seen this working in County-based and Community-based ERs time and time again - mom on "kid" number 10 with no concern for their well-being,"

So these women are not avoiding going to work? These are educated women who actually would prefer work?

There are two socioeconomic groups having large families these days: The largely uneducated, and those who are very educated and wealthy.

I stand by my comment that women who are not educated have large families to justify staying at home. That does not mean that they do not think that being the mother of multiple children has no benefit of its own. It simply means that by having many children, they do not have to face going to work. And since you used anecdotal evidence ("among my personal friends"), I trust you will allow me to do the same. I am acquainted with women of large families who admit that they could not face going to work every day.

I also stand by my statement that highly educated people should possess a social ethic that recognizes global overpopulation, the need for adoption, and the heavy footprint that large families leave. Having the education and wealth to permit the wealthy to have large families does not make doing so right any more than having the wealth to drive to work alone in an SUV every day makes it ethically correct to do so. Living in the USA or Canada or any relatively wealthy country should not give one carte blanche to do as one pleases while the rest of the world goes hungry. That sense of entitlement continues to baffle me.

Perhaps the wealthy who are having large families and can afford them should consider addressing the population-based ills by adopting children who have been placed in care.

My statements do not confirm my "ignorance". Many of your comments actually affirm what I said albeit from a slightly different perspective.


Amanda Roddy profile image

Amanda Roddy 4 years ago

"And yes, my personal experience has shown that many of the welfare-dependent women I mentioned who have large numbers of children (I don't refer to them as families because they are not) are not motivated to work, many of them are drug-dependent/EtOH dependent, and, per a direct quote from a delivery I'll never forget "get this rat out of me," as mom-on-crack with baby number 10 pushed out another child. Focus on this issue."

It is easy to judge others. Some of these women were perhaps abused. However, some people have 'baby rabies' and I believe Michelle Duggar is one. I am not saying large families cannot work out but couples should seriously think about it . Why not satisfy 'baby rabies' in other ways?


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Agreed-they need a viable and intellectual hobby i.e. reading a good book, participating in cultural and intellectual activities, and/or volunteering to help unfortunate children. Participating in such activities should cure baby hunger. Many women of large families have baby hunger and voids in their lives so they have a large amount of children to fill that void.


Amanda Roddy profile image

Amanda Roddy 4 years ago

I read an older article on MSN about baby addiction. The women want another baby as soon as the current one is old enough to walk. I think the advancement ent of technology has fed this addiction. They get a thrill out of saying "I got four under 5" on Facebook and posting pics. , People pay them attention give them showers, etc. I really can't say what made Michelle Duggar take this route other than religion.. She was the youngest of seven and quite bit younger than the older ones. She basically grew up with one sister from what I read so she didn't understand fighting for parent attention or practicality raising your sibling..


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

To Amanda: People reared in large families just have a different and inverse modus operandi from the rest of us mortals. To them, poverty and want are fine while the concept of socioeconomic affluence is frowned up. The concept of privacy space and selfhood is also absent in large families and so is the idea of parental attention. People from large families have a harsher and tougher persona because of the familial environment in which they were raised! They were left on their own a lot as children and that shows in their attitude and demeanor!


Amanda Roddy profile image

Amanda Roddy 4 years ago

"Many oldest children assume household duties at a very early age while the youngest children never assume any household responsibilities whatsoever." This is one thing fans can't understand is the younger Duggar girls will not have the same responsibilities as the older girls. I am not saying they own't have chores;just nowhere near their older siblings. It infuriates me when people brag about how nice the older Duggar girls help and are learning to be moms. Like that's the only life path? The girls have no other choice in Quiverfull. It is sexist to me. What about the boys? I am unclear on what the Duggar boys do all day. But I think this is cultural based attitude rather than exclusively religious. Boys shouldn't be raised to think a woman will do all the child rearing and cooking for them one day. Yea I shake my head when anyone says children from smaller families are spoiled.


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

To Amanda: I become highly incensed when people say that children from small families are spoiled. Many people from large families come from environments where want is a way of life. Typical children from large families are often impoverished or near it.

This impoverishment causes children from large families to value want, incessant struggle, and not caring about material things. It is nothing for children from large families to do without the simple things in life.

Since poverty is a constant for children from large families, it is extremely difficult for them to understand that there are children from more affluent backgrounds because the latter's parents strategized and planned carefully before deciding to bring children into the world.

Typical parents of large families are unconcerned about the economic outcome of their children. All they think about are their selfish wants and desires.

The main impetus in the lives of such parents is that they want a lot of children just for its own sake, without thinking about how their actions affect the family structure at hand. A sane parent knows that he/she cannot effective support a large number of children psychologically, emotionally, and financially.

In large families, children are the ones who suffer the most. In large families, some children receive the most attention while others, especially the oldest, are woefully neglected. Children in large families often have to work just to supply themselves with the necessities and some amenities of life. Some even work to supplement their families' income. That is totally unfair to say the least.

Children from large famlies usually get the short end of the stick in every way. They receive the worst medical/dental care, the worst nutrition, and other related things. Oftentimes, if it was not for donations, many children from large families would not receive adequate clothing and other amenities.

The concept of "spoiled" is just a word that people from large families who are often penurious use to describe children who are more socioeconomically affluent than they are. I heard the world so often, I just retaliate in kind when people say it to me.

You see I am an only child and so many people portend that I was spoiled because as an only child, I had material things that they did not have. They were often from poor, large families and believed that everyone worth his/her salt should have the same impoverished and penurious lifestyle that they have.

You see Amanda people from large families have a harsher and more tenuous life. This influences them to develop a poverty consciousness and a tougher and rougher persona. They believe that life should not be easy for anyone and if it is easier, then something is wrong! That is just the large family culture and mentality that children should struggle for everything that they get! Thank you Amanda for your input. Adieu!


Amanda Roddy profile image

Amanda Roddy 4 years ago

I tell Duggar fans there is no way a family that size can survive without donations. It has been mentioned on forums many times the Duggars got help from their church before the show. Their friends the Bates admitted to borrowing money from their son. You are right it is unfair to the child becoming an adult before their time regardless of family size. Kids shouldn't have to support parents. Helping out financially is different than supporting irresponsible parents. Everyone has hard times but to keep bringing kids in the world you know you can't support is selfish.


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Of course it is selfish. Typical parents who have large families have their own idealized version of the large family without thinking about its realistic implications. They are so in love with "having children" that they are unconcerned about the emotional, psychological, and financial implications that having a large number of children involve.

Parents, particularly fathers, suffer the most stress in large families because he is often the only viable breadwinner. Mothers do not work at all( if they did, they would not have the energy to have so many children), The only ones to suffer next to the father are the children. They have to go and do without even some of the necessities. That is not right at all! Yes, parents who have large families are indeed selfish, all they think about are their desires and wants without considering how it affect the children at hand!


almorr 4 years ago

I am from the U.K. there was a program on the television recently about this family in England who have 15 children and 'counting'. The wife admitted that she was 'addicted' to having babies, she had her first child at 14 years of age. She is only 36, there is a good possibility that she could have as many as the Duggers through time. Her husband does work, he is a baker. The children are all well looked after, but some of them did admit "that it is horrible having so many brothers and sisters", one wished that she had her own room, but otherwise they seemed to be quite a happy large family and got on OK in general.


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

The average mother of a large family is indeed addicted to having children. There is no other logical and plausible reason why a woman would have a large amount to children. Many mothers of large families have a baby hunger i.e. they are in love with infants; however, once the child becomes a toddler, they tired of the child and have another child ad infinitum.

Many parents of large families are in love with the idea of having a lot of children without considering how their children are impacted. To reiterate, typical parents of large families have little or no concern with the socioeconomic and psychological welfare of their children as parents of small families are. To parents of large families, it is the numbers, not the individual child.

Most children of large families do not like their arrangement. However, they pretend that they do because they do not know any better. They are in quite a precarious situation. As my late father said that children from large families grow up quite impoverished and in want, live a very menial existence, and they are not used to anything but the bare necessities!


Tasha 4 years ago

I believe that the thinking for this article and these draconian comments went out of the window. So many assinine assumptions that deploy ignorance at its finest. As a mother of six children from ages 21-4 I'm appalled at what I gave read. First of all both my husband and I are educated professionals who love and care for our children. We teach them many things and do not fall subject to any stereotype! We live in the capital of California a suburb with the best school district in our state. Our home is 7 bedrooms and all of our children have their own bedroom and privacy. Three of my adult children are at prestigious university and are doing quite well. I am offended with the welfare comments because my husband and I pay our fair share. We have also put up education funds and our children have bank accounts with funds that we started when they were born. Oh by the way none of my children have been arrested, used drugs or hurt others. Why don't you expand your study with real time data and not some BS you read on the Internet. Dr. Google is not your friend! By the way I'm African American and I approve this message!


Tasha 4 years ago

One more thing...all of my children were planned!


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

You are the exception to the rule. Your being an African-American is totally a nonissue regarding this. I am also an African-American from a middle class background, the same as you are! While many large families are impoverished, there are other large families who are quite affluent socioeconomically. I was not addressing such families, I was address the majority of large families who are often in the lower socioeconomic strata. I did not get my data from the internet. I have studied the large family system in college and read many books on the subject.


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Tasha, again, I was NOT addressing your situation. To reiterate, YOU are the exception to the large family scenario. The average large family is not living the way you and your family are. They are struggling socioeconomically. They are living in substandard surroundings. Those children are living on top of each other with no concept of privacy. It is enough for those families to barely put food on the table and provide the other bare necessities for their children. You are one of the REMARKABLE exceptions, Tasha. You and your family are clearly NOT THE TYPICAL large family I was writing about in this hub!


Tasha 4 years ago

Thanks for your feedback. I'm very passionate about this subject. As I was responding to your post my 6 year old walks in with her progress report with all A's and it made me smile. I don't think those statistics you use represent large families as a whole. It appears that there is a misaligned bias. There should be more data in large families that make it work versus large families struggling. There is a huge difference and a lot to learn.


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Statistics never adequately represent exceptional families. They always represent the average. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule as demonstrated by your wonderful family. The large families represented are often socioeconomically subpar, struggling and living to hand to hand. This is NOT ALL large families. Tasha, thank you for your input and have a Blessed Day and a more Blessed Labor Day!


Adra 3 years ago

Where do you get your statistics, gmwilliams? I am eighteen and want to know more about all this "big family" stuff. I have a friend from a big family who totally hates it.


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 3 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Adra, I have read various books in college and personally regarding large families. I have read books on the parentified child. I also had friends and relatives from large families who told me how arduous and tenuous large family life is. Children from large families for the most part HATED it. They do not have the advantages that their peers from small families have.

They do not have the prerequisite parental attention. In large families, older children are CAST ASIDE in favor of the younger ones. Children in large families tend to raise themselves and each others so parental resources are thin. They also do without many necessities. They oftentimes have to work in order to purchase things that normal children have.

Oldest children in large families raise their younger siblings thus having no formative and normative childhood and adolescence. Adra, this is totally de rigueur in large families. In large families, everyone is inverse. Children assume parenting and adult duties such as parenting, caretaking, and working. Oldest children are THE TRUE PARENTS in the large family environment.

Parents in large families DON'T raise their children or have any involvement in their lives at all. They are just the receptables regarding childbearing. It is the parents' contention to let it RIP as far as their children go. One can say that parents of large families are completely lackadaisical as far as their children go. They do not care about the upkeep of their children. It is their contention that their children can live a subsistent existence. They do not care about the betterment of their children.

Besides books and observances of my extended family and childhood friends, you can get a lot of information about large family life on large family blogs. Adra, you should read the things that the parents of large families say on them. It is quite an education in itself. Parents of large families have a more neglectful attitude regarding their children.

This is why many children from large families have a hardscrabble, uncultured, and rough around the edges persona. Mark Wahlberg and Madonna exemplifies the large family persona. Both came from very large families where they DIDN'T receive the prerequisite individualized parental attention.

Although sociological books provide a great education regarding large family life, talking to peers from large families who realistically acknowledge their situation can be an eye opener. However, your friend is one of the very few who will realistically admit that large family life sucks. The average person from a large family will contend that their childhood was great although evidence is to the contrary. Many people from large families are in deep, deep, deep denial regarding their familial situation. They have an inverse psychology operating. Tell your friend to read this hub. I have also written many hubs on the detriments of large family life. Please check them out! Thank you for stopping by and responding!


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gmwilliams 3 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Affluent large families are a minute percentage. Even rarer are large families where all children are motivated to be high achievers. In the typical large family, parents are NOT involved in their children's lives. They DO NOT even raise their children. Children in large families are left to fend and support themselves and each other.

Children in large families tend to raise themselves and each other as their parents are so overwhelmed by the sheer number of children in the household. Typical large families are poor, impoverished, or near poverty. This translates into children not receive adequate nutrition and medical care. They have to do without even the rudiments of life. The majority of large families subsist by charitable donations as monies are stretched tight due to the large number of children per household. Childreni n large families must work to purchase things that other children have and some even work to supplement family income.

In large families, NOT ALL children are going to be educated. Some will, many WON'T. Tertiary and other advanced forms of education are out of the reach of many children in large families. Children from large families will be the lowest earners because they will be the least educated. Also, because parental involvement in large families are next to nonexistent, it is the OLDEST children who raise the younger ones oftentimes forfeiting their normative childhood and adolescence years. MIDDLE children in large families are LOST in the shuffle. They have to learn to sink or swim very early in life.

The average attitude of parents of large families is SO WHAT regarding their children. All they care about is having children without considering the ramifications of their actions on the children. Their attitude can be described as uncaring and lackadaisical. It is the attitude of the parents, well let THEM do the best they can......well what of it! Parents of large families tend to be less caring towards their children than their counterparts of small families where the parents are MORE INVOLVED in their children's lives. I have seen this firsthand. Parents of large families tend to let their children be totally unsupervised and bereft of parental care. They also do not care about their children's intellectual or academic future. All they care about is the rudiments of life.


Connie 2 years ago

I read this article this evening with 2 of my sisters. We are from a family of 13 siblings and agree whole-heartedly with everything written here. It's right on the mark. My 2 sisters were among the oldest 4 and I was a middle child at #9 of 13. We are almost at retirement age now with grandchildren of our own, and only now realize the HUGE negative impact that being raised in an extremely large psychopathic family had on our lives. Our lives were for the most part riddled with emotional pain, turmoil and chaos. We were never able to have "normal" relationships of any kind. Whether romantic, social, or work related, our ways of relating to the outside world were inadequate to say the least....completely neurotic and always extremely painful would only start to describe our life experience. Out of our 13 siblings only us 3 are ready to admit how badly we were damaged. 2 of our siblings are dead, and the rest are pretty much still clinging to complete deep denial and our 85 year old mother's agenda. My 2 sisters and I have cut off contact with the rest of the family which was the only way we could protect ourselves from the toxicity and dysfunction that only grew worse in our family once we were all adults. Drug addiction, felons, teen pregnancy, child abuse, child neglect, poverty, bullying, gaslighting, severe mental illness are just a few of the things that large families produce. There is no reason to have more than 1 or 2 children that is not driven by selfishness or stupidity. I speak from painful experience.Add Your Comment...


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gmwilliams 2 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

At least, you have told THE TRUTH about the pathologies and dysfunctions of large families. Most people from large families are in denial regarding their large family pathos. They know that they were miserable, growing up in poverty and want but nevertheless they claim that their childhood were "wonderful". The large family has an inverse psychology and logic. It is bizarro world to the multillionth degree!


seriousrunner 2 years ago

Hello author,

I have written commentaries to the many insulting and degrading statements and presumptions written about the larger family. I have 7 kids. I love having a larger family and come from a much smaller family. My kids will have very few social supports other than each other due to a lack of family size outside of our own. My hubby is Chair of a department at a university and I am a physician. I had 3 kids by residency completion and graduated at the top of my class. So did several of my women colleagues, also having larger families to date. The issue is not family size. It is education, priorities, and passion. We emphasize education, dedication, hard work and passion in all we do w our kids, whether we had 1 or 7. That is our nature. As do my other educated friends w larger families. I am surrounded by families of 1-3 kids whose kids are lazy, unmotivated, and whose parents are more focused on drinking and partying than on parenting. This is among the upper middle class. The article here is an unfortunate stereotype and it affects my day to day as prejudices like this are maintained.


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gmwilliams 2 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Seriousrunner, you are WRONG. Parents of small families are better, more involved parents than their counterparts of large families. Parents of large families DON'T raise their children nor are involved in the latter's lives. It is THE OLDEST CHILDREN who are the REAL PARENTS. Parents of large families are "parents" in name only. All they care about is THEIR desires, wants, and needs, not THEIR children. They want LARGE FAMILIES, they really do not care about their already existing children finanically, emotionally, nor psychologically. It is ALL ABOUT the parents. They really couldn't care less about their children overall as opposed to parents of small families who CARE about their children in EVERY way!


seriousrunner 2 years ago

Dear author,

Indeed you are making many presumptions. We (my husband and I) have witnessed many families with one, two or three children who are irresponsible, lazy, and uneducated. We have been approached by several of the parents of these smaller families asking if we wouldn't mind watching their children (or keeping an eye on them from afar) so they can go out and drink. We live in an affluent area and this is what we have seen. On the contrary all of the larger families we have interacted with are completely focused on their children's well-being, their psychological and emotional growth, the financial structure and responsibilities of their household, and future accomplishments for their children as they grow (I.e. college). I am not wrong, as I live this daily, my focus (and my colleagues who have larger families) are entirely family-focused. My children do not parent each other. They are children. My husband and I parent them. You are attacking my family and every large family. Why don't you put forth research into the dynamics of multiple parents (bio father, step-parent) larger family dynamics? Many of these households have larger families w difficult dynamics due to divorce, separation, etc. Or focus on the difficult dynamics of single parent households. You have absolutely no business making statements which are insulting, degrading and very biased without merit. My family and many other families are a direct contrast to all you spew hatred about.


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gmwilliams 2 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

I am not making presumptions. I have grown up around people from large families. Parents of large families are THE MOST NEGLECTFUL of parents. They do not give a good rat's fig about their kids. They just reproduce ad infinitum without being concerned about the ramifications of their actions.. Such children have poor nutrition, little or no medical care, and little stimulation because their parents can hardly afford the rudiments.

Children from large families develop a scarcity and poverty mentality/consciousness. They believe that socioeconomic struggle is an acceptable way of life. They want NOTHING and are happy with nothing. They are quite content living in poverty and want and see socioeconomic affluence and higher education as a waste. They inculcate their children with this philosophy.

Children from large families are tougher, harsher, and more cyncial in their attitude and dealings in life because they came from a background of struggle and living from day to day to day. They are more roughstrew, an example of this is Mark Wahlberg who came from a family of 9. Children from large families are rougher because that is how they survive. They also raise themselves as they are neglected by their parents. Children from small families NEVER raise themselves; parents are very actively involved in their lives. The attitude of parents of large families is well -------------,what the hell, they can do or do without, who cares!

I am RIGHT and again YOU'RE WRONG! I had parents and relatives from large families and grew up around those from large families. I also read books and studied the family, small and large, in college. Large families are wrong and intelligent, thinking, and educated people do not mindlessly reproduce. Only uneducated/unthinking people do this because they do not know any better.


seriousrunner 2 years ago

Dear author,

I am sorry to hear that you had such a negative exposure to the larger family dynamic. It is unfortunate that you are not embracing any comments outside of your preconceived presumptions. How can I be "wrong" when my family, a family of 9, is everything other than what you state? How can my many colleagues of families ranging from 5-10 be "wrong" when they, too, do not fall into the stereotype you are portraying? It is impossible to have a debate with illogicality.

I, too, have studied intensely family dynamics. I can see some if your points, however the irresponsibility, haphazard style parenting you are connecting to larger families can be found in any family unit, large or small. I have personally grown up around smaller families and have been surrounded by smaller families as I rear mine. The horrible lazy parental modality of mind has been seen in many small families as well, irrespective of money or time.

I am enormously proud of my large family. I am proud to be raising responsible, smart, focused children and that is our dedication. You need to seriously readdress the attacks and find a better hobby.


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gmwilliams 2 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Again, parents of large families aren't the parents of their children. They do not parent. It is the OLDER CHILDREN of the family who raise the younger siblings, having no formative childhood nor adolescence. They do not participate in the things that normal children/adolescence do. THEY ARE PARENTS instead of the ACTUAL PARENTS who only thinking of profligate reproduction. Parents of large families have it SO EASY. Well, why not, they AREN'T raising the kids at all!

In my life experience, it is the OLDEST/OLDER children in large families who raise and parent the child. Parents of large families raising children? Please, THEY DON'T lift a finger to actual raising the children. They relegate parenting to the oldest children. I believe that parents should have the number of children that THEY can EFFECTIVELY raise, not having THEIR OLDEST CHILDREN raise. Parents of large families would be categorized as abusive. Children aren't parents and are ENTITLED to a childhood. It is really pathological to want a large family when 1-2 children will do just fine. When parents have a large family, they are OVERWHELMED by the sheer number of children. Apparently, they are INCAPABLE of raising a large number of children by themselves and guess who ends up raising the children- YES, the OLDEST/OLDER children which is UNFAIR to the OLDEST/OLDER children.

My mother was the oldest of 10, left home as soon as she could and my oldest aunt was saddled with the responsibility and SHE left home as soon as she could. Lady, are you mad. I am attacking the large family because of its inherent aberrant and evil nature. Large families are unfair to the oldest/older children in which they are abused and must be ON 24/7/365, NEVER having a life of their own. The only children who have IT MADE are the youngest children who NEVER have to assume any type of responsibility. They are the ones who have the greatest levity. In comparison to my mother and aunt, my youngest aunt had NO RESPONSIBILITY and NEVER DID ANYTHING while she was home. Even when she lived with my aunt, it was MY AUNT who did EVERYTHING. YES, I am vehemently against the large family as it is atavistic in this postmodern society. Children NEED parental attention and in large families, they GET NONE! Oldest children are cast aside, used, and/or ignored in FAVOR of the youngest/younger ones. You KNOW that well! It is the PARENTS of SMALL FAMILIES who RAISE their children while the PARENTS of LARGE FAMILIES just give the child for the OLDEST/OLDER children to raise, just aiming to again reproduce. Just look at the reality shows such as The Duggars and Supernanny where such parents DON'T raise their brood at all, just assigning parenting duties to the OLDEST/OLDER children. Well, that's typical of large family parenting "logic"!

As regards to hobby, I have myriad of hobbies. It is the mothers of large families who do not have hobbies or outside activities, if they did, their psychological void would be filled by more constructive things that to to endlessly having child to fulfill some missing void.


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Amanda Roddy 2 years ago

I don't care what anyone thinks about how focused their family of 11 is. While there may be an anomaly like that, what about the attention the kids get, discipline, and resources? I take offense at the comments like from the above poster who says not to label large families, but label smaller families lazy and spoiled. It is just a way to justify their large families. My parents never drank and I am one of two. We were never rich by any means but knew our place. What parents of larger families call spoiled we call enriching a kid's life with culture. Kids arent' just a number. They are humans.Maybe he/she should read bios of Michael Jackson.


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gmwilliams 2 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Amanda, what you stated is so true. The culture and psychology of the large family is of want, struggle, and penury. Children from large families are used to doing without, even the most rudimentary things. Since poverty is a regular part of life in large families, they see affluent, small families as spoiled because the latter have the money to live beyond the struggling and rudimentary level. Parents of large families see their children as numbers, nothing else. Parents of large families have an inverse logic of struggle and poverty which they strongly inculcate their children with. They tell their children that struggle and poverty is good. Children from large families are used to cast offs whether in food, clothing, and health care. They live at the extremely basic level. They do not have the things that normal children have; their parents tell them small families are spoiled based upon envy that the latter will live a life that they and their brood will NEVER attain.


JW 2 years ago

gmwilliams: I was raised in a two child household in a lower middle class family. Both of my parents worked and where educated to Junior College Level.

However, I was the parent to my sibling, I did most of the housework and maintained my school work. I also did 60% of the cooking and 50% of the yard work until my brother became old enough to mow the grass and trim the weeds etc. Thank goodness my parents stopped at two because I could not have handled anymore!


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gmwilliams 2 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

JW, at least your parents worked and planned. They also CARED. JW, the average parent of a large/very large family(6 0r more children per household) just mindlessly reproduce and have children, knowing that they are condemning them to a childhood of want and poverty. However, they DON'T care; all they care about is what THEY WANT, not the ramifications of their actions upon their children.

The average parent of a large/very large family do not have enough money for the necessities yet they know this and continue to have children, moaning about how tough their life is. Your parents worked to make a better life for you and your sibling. The average parent of a large/very large family is not concerned one iota of making their children's lives better.

Parents of large/very large families have a callous, don't care attitude towards their children. They contend that their children could well do without or have inferior products. Parents of large/very large families have an infantile sense of entitlement, THEY WANT WHAT THEY WANT. In large/very large families, parent-child roles are reverse to what they are in small families. Children in large/very large families have to be the parent while the parent is the entitled child. Children in large/very large families are poor to impoverished. They have to consume inferior quality foods, wear throwaway/castoff clothings that no one else wants, and have no or little health care.

Large/very large families have to depend upon outside assistance to keep them on a even socioeconomic keel. JW, your parents cared enough about you and your sibling to have a small family. The average parent of a large/very large family don't give two rat's a$$ets about the well-being of their children. Thank you for stopping by; it is so greatly appreciated in kind.


kathy 2 years ago

I found this very interesting. I was an only child who was miserable. Not only that but I was sexually abused over 8 years by my step dad and various and other men, because I was always alone. Both parents worked. So, I had 5 kids. Oh well.


seriousrunner 2 years ago

Ahhhh Ms. Williams, Ms. Williams. You and I have conversated through this forum since this unfortunate article was posted and circulated among my large family friends. I came across your response to JW and I see yet again that gross stereotypes based on supposition have been published. Your response is biased without merit and your interpretation of families like mine warped. BTW I just completed my board recertification all while caring for 7 kids. My great friend and colleague also just recertified. See, we have lives, we support our kids, we love our kids and cherish each and every one of them, foster their growth and development. I could go on and on but it seems to be futile. I have asked this before and I will ask it again. Please stop stereotyping large families. For every family which meets your stereotype I can match you with one that doesn't but furthermore a small nuclear family which fulfills all of the subpar criteria you throw into the larger families. You are entitled to your opinion of course but unfortunately the manner in which you share your thoughts is biased in an unhealthy way.


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gmwilliams 2 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

@SR, I am not stereotyping large-very large families. The fact is that there is a correlation between large-very large families and poverty. Your large family is a rarity. The average large-very large family is poor to impoverished. The parents are struggling even for the necessities. Children do not have even enough necessities, having to do without. There is no such thing as privacy as people live in the open and on top of each other. Monies are stretched tight.

Also there is little or no parental individualized time with the children. In fact, in large-very large families, children have very little interaction with their parents. They raise themselves and each other. They must be adults very early in life and learn to take care of themselves as there is no adult to do for them.

Children from large-very large families have to work during childhood to get the things that other children have such as spending monies and other normal childhood things. It is unusual for children from large-very large families to forgo their education in order to work to help supplment family income. These are the facts which cannot be denied. Even though there are poor and impoverished small families, they are in the distinct minority. Small families are oftentimes more affluent than large-very large families on the average. In large-very large families, it is quite rigueur for children to do without the basics, have poor or no health care/nutrition because such things are beyond their socioeconomic purview. Scrabbling is part of the lifestyle of large-very large families. You simply cannot avoid the facts of large-very large family life. These are not my thoughts, I have witnesses these in large-very large families from relatives, classmates, and associates. I have also read books and studied the large family.


seriousrunner 2 years ago

Have you followed blogs of multi-thousand member large families? I personally do not know of the mega-large families you speak about but among the larger families (up to 10 kids) I do not see this correlate, in fact I see the opposite dynamic, where there are parents who are completely vested in their children's well-being and emotional growth. Everything circles around the large family. I am personally a member of a few of these sites and they host over 10 k members each. I would wholeheartedly agree with you regarding women who have a multitude of kids with a partner(s) and just happen to breed indiscriminately. Same for men (though men tend to not stay and raise these children). However when I refer to family I am considering a mother, father and their vested children. A family unit. I do not see the same dynamics that you write about among the families I know personally and through support groups. Again, I see careless parenting among many smaller 'families' where perhaps both parents are too young and immature to start a family and their focus is not on their children or they lack the commitment toward raising their children and enriching their children's lives to the greatest degree.


Guest 2 years ago

Dear author,

You are polite to Tasha about her six children from a higher socioeconomic class, yet berate seriousrunner who seems to be in the same situation. JW complains that his parents made him raise his brother, but you excuse it because he was from a small family so his parents cared for him more. You seem to oversimplify and have it out for all large families, while praising all small. Document your opinions with citations. Otherwise I don't care how many books you've read that doesn't make you an expert.


Seriousrunner@hotmail.com 2 years ago

Hello author and thank you 'guest' for your support. I never understand the alignment choices yet continue to respond because it is important for proud, focused larger families to express their opinion and have a voice. I am incredibly proud of my family, and each and every child has my full heart and energy. It is a mindset very difficult to understand and I completely respect that notion. However to put all large families into the same stereotypical category is simply unfair and unwise. I would love to see articles which address the larger family which is a result of several mothers/fathers and how that dynamic affects quality of life.


Lisa 8 months ago

This is so common. My dad comes from a large family and not only he makes me guilty for anything I do, no matter what, but most of his brothers and sisters from New York do the same thing too. I'm constantly pressured to be perfect like my close cousin who is the middle of three girls out of my cousins, especially in terms of having a perfect spouse who can blend in well with the family like hers. If I introduce anyone I meet on my own, they are seen as bad people no matter what.


Survivor 3 weeks ago

I am the second oldest of 12. I cannot tell you how relieved and thankful I am to have for these articles. I found myself saying out loud " yes! That's it exactly!" Over and over. I was raised in the quiverfull/Bill gothard fundamentalist cult the duggars are in. When I was younger, I was a militant apologist for this cult and system of belief. I had to be. But let me promise you, behind the " big happy healthy family " image, is pure hell. My family was impoverished to the point that I have ongoing health issues from mal nutrition. I have been diagnosed with PTSD from witnessing horrific home health measures and home births gone wrong. Most of my siblings have addiction, mental illness, poverty, it goes on and on. Ms. Williams thank you for your writing and research. You have helped me tremendously by shedding light on these issues. I have about a 3 RD grade education ( homeschooled ) but I am hoping to go to college. That is my dream. Again thankyou.


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gmwilliams 3 weeks ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

You are quite welcome indeed.


Survivor 3 weeks ago

You are also right about how girls in these families suffer exponentially more than do the male children. I was a mother to the point that my younger siblings actually called my older sister and myself " momma." being too young to carry that responsibility was one thing, but the crushing powerlessness of not being able to CHANGE it is something I am still paralyzed by even as an adult though I am trying to get stronger. It takes years, many years to even get my head around the idea that I am not powerless. The nightmare it is to know that your siblings are suffering, but be threatened, terrorized into silence. To not be able to change it. That is hell. I have always felt like no one else could understand. But you have given me the power of words to my story and as I'm seeing, so many others. That has somehow made it easier to process. I still rub elbows from time to time with " moms" anxious to prove to the world how their family is somehow the exception, maybe outside of far right religious types there are? But I have yet to see it from the children themselves after they get far enough removed from the trauma that they feel safe enough to be honest. Again your insight into this is so absolutely 100% exactly right. I want to write about this " quiverfull patriarchy, no birth control" movement because I'm afraid women might get sucked into it as our culture continues to decide how the modern women fits exactly. I did get my GED but will never forget my parents anger because women aren't to be educated in the ati/iblp cult. I had to go to classes for my GED and I loved them so much!! but I really want to go to college and I want to write. I drove up to the closest school to me, sat in the parking lot, got scared and left! :) I'll try again after reading your articles. It's meant that much to me that someone out there " gets it." Again. Thankyou


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gmwilliams 3 weeks ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

You're again quite welcome. I am writing about the evils of the large family system. Hopefully, the large family is becoming a dinosaur. Large families are detrimental to the children. Such precious children have no childhood to explore. Many assume adult responsibilities in childhood because of the childishness of their parents.

Any parent who has a large family is irresponsible & selfish. Why cosign children to poverty & struggle. This is child abuse of the highest order. You're one of the smart ones who acknowledge how evil large families are but most are in denial. They "praise" their large family origins, knowing that such origins are heinous. This explains why so many people in large families HATE those in small families for the latter have a better life than they have.


Survivor 3 weeks ago

"Many children from large families look suspiciously upon socioeconomic affluence & wealth.They see such things as materialistic, greedy &/or wasteful. They contend that all one needs is just to live a basic level of existence, no more no less."

This is uncanny in its accuracy! It was a topic of actual discussion in my family. My parents would mock, demean, and disparage any normal family we crossed paths with! Especially if they had any financial means! They were proud of our extreme poverty.

In the particular cult we were in, it was even equated with godliness. I hated it then but I went along with it because it was the only way to get any approval from my parents. My mom I now believe was very ill in her mind. She craved babies. But when they got to be about a year old, she crashed into depression and physcosis, but it was fuled by that awful religious mania.

And any small family was targeted as ungodly and hell bound because they didn't trust god enough to have child after child. I developed an undeniable searching mind very young and I would switch covers on the books from the cult, with library books on philosophy. I saw myself in the words of Socrates to Antisthenes: " I can see your pride through the holes in your cloak." That changed me deeply. It's so very true. Your words echo that entire world view. It's nuts. I can tell you things that happened in my family that I wouldn't say here. But still I smiled, er.. I mean " had a joyful countenance" per serial pedo/prophet awkwardly named .. " gothard" I'm sure you've heard it all but I'm finding as an adult, when I share my story, people are stunned. It was not normal. I will gladly be a case study for your research if that would ever serve your writing. It looks like the whole duggar scam is self imploding anyhow, but people NEED to understand, it's NOT what it seems.


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gmwilliams 3 weeks ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

OH YES, YES. Large families DO LOOK W/SUSPICION upon those w/socioeconomic means & small families. People from small families are called materialistic because they don't have the poverty consciousness that large families have. Large families hate money & affluence, glorifying in poverty. They maintain that it is GOOD to be impoverished. Large families are rudimentary in mindset. They are used to doing w/o, even the necessities. They are happy w/nothing. As my late father indicated, people from large families aren't used to anything.

A poverty mindset is part of the large family psychology. They see it quite normative living at the subsistent level. The hardscrabble mentality is so etched in large families, they consider anyone w/socioeconomic means to be spoiled & indulged. I have studied large families & read extensively about it. I have also had parents who came from anaconda-sized families- so I have observed the large family mindset early on. I also had associates from large families. Large families are quite different from small families in consciousness, mindsets, mentalities, & outlooks.

I have written several Hubarticles on the large family, please check them out. I have detailed the inverse logic of large families. Large families AREN'T normal. We all know this. There is something about large families that is totally bizarre. That is why I indicated that there is something dysfunctional, even pathological about large families. You are one of the few people who agree w/my articles; most would defend their abhorrent lifestyle although they admitted to having a hellish childhood of poverty, want, struggle, & deprivation. Peace.


Survivor 3 weeks ago

Thankyou I have devoured anything I can find that you've written. I see the people that get on and try to debunk what you say. I can't read them because I've said all that stuff as a teen. I had to get extensive counseling to feel safe enough to say " this was not good."

Especially when they add some religion in the mix. I was terrified as a child and young teen to critisize any aspect of our existence because GOD! HELL! We had children's story books depicting people in hell.

I have really had a hard time with the duggar situation because I was the victim of a similar situation as those girls. they get in front of the camera and shill out these lines about forgiveness and God. Big empty smiles. Hostages without knowing it.

My heart aches for them because they can't even have a thought that is their own. It is not possible. It's that " you can't observe without changing" dynamic... With God always observing inside their minds! Insidious.

and besides they are female. One of my sisters was so beaten down by the male superiority doctrine that she told my parents that they might as well change the Declaration of Independence to read " we the penis, of the United States of Anerica." No disrespect meant to our country but that remark has stayed with me.

You got that right too. We knew another family that had 9 children I believe. Of course our parents were caught in a holier than thou tit for tat so our visits were few, but the oldest son of that family would say all the same stuff your detractors are saying...

He shot and killed his wife a couple months ago. The mother of his own eight children.

I just don't even read people' trying to sell it. Been there. Don't that. It's usually hyper religious moms that say it's great.

If you are a quiverfull or other fundamentalist cult member/mom, please just ... Pause.. Please. I'm not trying to insult whatever God you're in to, but have some human pity on your children!! Stop having babies!! Be strong enough to seek help! For the love of everything holy don't homes


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gmwilliams 3 weeks ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Besides children, fathers of large/very large families are stressed beyond belief. The socioeconomic burden is placed SOLELY UPON HIM. This causes emotional, mental, physical, & psychological stress. This stress leads physical abuse because the father is psychological spent.

Large/very large families are ideologically conservatives, even reactionary & right-wing in scope. Parents of large/very large families are less educated, on average, than parents of small families who tend to be more educated. Mothers of large/very large families tend to be more traditional than mothers of small families. They are also very passive in psychology. They believe that sex & pregnancy are preordained & accept these components as part of their conditioning. It was nice discussing this w/you. You are part of the very few who accept the dysfunction which is the large family.


Survivor 3 weeks ago

One of the agonizing contradictions was my childhood relationship with my father from whom I'm estranged. He was a " pastor" with the southern babtists. So I would attend religious and political meetings with him dressed in the cast offs of older folks who had passed away and left their clothes to us out of pity. So I looked older. I looked like a 12 year old under taker. It was a running joke that he loved that as I blossomed into a teen, people would mistake me for his wife. I like it because it was the only attention I got from him, but I felt really icky inside. It was an easy jump from there to an inappropriately close relationship. My mom would become manic with constant pregnancies and ppd, she was insanely jealous and actually held me down and chopped off my beautiful hair because god told her I was using it for the talking snake.

That day comes back in nightmares. I had no idea what sex or seduction was! I was just treading water trying to shield my younger siblings from the insanity.

Do you see that father/daughter emotional and sexual incest happen a lot? I know it's common in the flds cult but people need to know the talking snake version is just as bad. Is this common among non religious large families? Or is it primarily a right wing cult dynamic?


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gmwilliams 3 weeks ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York Author

Incest happens in all size dysfunctional families. However, someone informed me that incest occurs more in large/very large families because of the insular nature of large families.

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