The Pathological Liar. They're Everywhere

Definition, simplified

Pathos: (pa'-thos) n. [Gr. pathos, suffering, disease, feeling]


Pathological: (path' e laj' i k'l) adj. 1.) concerned with diseases. 2.) due to or involving disease 3.) governed by a compulsion; compulsive.

Liar: (li' er) n. A person who tells lies (relates untruths)


Some terms require only short, simple definition. Some individuals require no introduction.


TWO of the best....(sickest)

Source
A cautious & shrewd Attorney & misguided prosecution were Casey's salvation
A cautious & shrewd Attorney & misguided prosecution were Casey's salvation | Source

Faces beyond familiar

The faces of Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony have been placed here, not because I intend to write about them their lives, crimes and court cases, nor current status. I merely want my readers to see what a certified pathological liar may look like, should any be curious.

Nothing above nor below the average young adult female amongst the millions who exist most anywhere in a substantial number of countries of our world, I suspect. We see no horns nor fangs...and most importantly no neon sign around their necks flashing the words, When my lips are moving...I am lying.

Aside from the fact that these two young women are bona-fide certified classic examples of my topic, there is little if any information within about Jodi or Casey.

My intent here is to present as simple and comprehensible, a flash-class in Pathological Liar 101 as possible, while still affording my readers a solid grasp on recognizing these individuals when the dreaded moment arrives that they must.`


Facts on the table

You don't necessarily have to take my word for it, but if you're reading this, you know at least one or more pathological liars. This is an indisputable fact. You and I, as well as millions of others, have spoken to, lived or worked with, shared a church pew or classroom with....pathological liars. And this is merely brushing the surface. Many, the unfortunate of us may have been raised by, otherwise controlled by, married to or at least closely involved with these narcissistic, borderline personalities. While this may be one hell of an up-close and personal education of these characters, it is never positive nor pleasant.

So, WHO are "they" and where do "they" come from?

There is a universally common question asked by 90% of people who have ever (even momentarily) been subjected to sharing the same space and oxygen with a pathological liar. Oddly enough, this question is often the first from the mouths of those who have recently had a close encounter of the bizarre kind with one of these spooky, expert deceivers.
I mean no humor in this. These people can be quite frightening to the average ordinary and unsuspecting person, who hasn't been able to forgive himself for the little white lie he told 10 years ago.

In fact, Confession Time: As many hundreds of times I have sat face to face with a certified Borderline Personality Disorder pathological liar, they do not fail to increase my heart rate, raise the hairs on the back of my neck and cause my tummy to flip. How do they do this? I don't mean to frighten you....but it's in the deep dead, soul-less stare of their eyes and the foreboding, eerie and emotionless tone in their voice and speech. (Goosebumps...just imagining this scenario) The closest I can come to helping you out in your attempt to relate, is to make this simple comment. Remember, if you will, any interview or in-depth Documentary you have viewed of Ted Bundy, Richard (the Night Stalker) Ramirez, Richard ( the Ice Man) Kuklinsky or for that matter, any high-profile criminal/killer (serial or otherwise.) You cannot forget those eyes or the voice, and the chill up your spine.



WHY don't you believe me? boo hoo hoo
WHY don't you believe me? boo hoo hoo

The Every day, Generic Compulsive Liar

If lies were not so damaging and hurtful most of the time, we might often see the humor in some of the ridiculous lengths and ludicrous scenarios a liar will go to....to prove their deceitful point. It should certainly occur to us how much energy and effort goes into whipping out a lie per second. You know, that's actually an amazing feat. The plain and simple truth really is easier!

The seriousness of pathological lying is that it qualifies as and is diagnosed as a mental disorder. These are the individuals we simply cannot and normally do not believe due to the strength, consistency and frequency of their bold, blatant lies.

The Pathological liar in most cases begins their career as a youngster. All too often even those decent parents who may notice this flaw in their darling, erroneously think it may be only a phase...or a way to get attention, and will be outgrown. Seldom is this the case. We need to understand and accept the sad fact that these sick individuals have deeply rooted compulsions. Much like the addict and his/her drug.....the lying becomes beyond their conscious control.


Even if they may know better in a moral sense, they cannot and do not allow any barrier between the lie and themselves. He/she needs the lie to feel complete, even further, to feel superior. This should seem crazy to you....to any stable person....because my friend, it is in fact a form of crazy.....all due respect.


From a Professional: The Sociopath

Beep beep beep....ALERT
Beep beep beep....ALERT
Pay Attention !
Pay Attention !

The Red Flags.........Heads UP.

Should you be at all interested in what to look for....or at least be aware of in terms of recognizing that you may easily be in the presence of a Pathological Liar, I offer you a brief list of key characteristics. The reality is there are literally dozens of symptoms that can be attributed to this pathos and of course the average lay person is not expected to diagnose. We can however be wise enough to be duly informed and armed.


Man woman child...any color background environment, history or educational level

I would like to suggest you use caution as well as common sense as you read through the following list. Do not take any issue of possible warning sign(s) to the extreme nor fabricate and/or fantasize that you see or experience a particular troublesome character flaw in any one. Please use this information as a basis for further research and/or contact with Professionals.

The Compulsive (Pathological) Liar:

1.) When in conversation, he/she speaks either a.) Extremely dramatically, using flowery language and added expressions that seem unnecessary to the subject matter and appears to "sound" very knowledgeable by quoting unknown experts. b.) To the opposite extreme, remains quite monotone, controlled and condescending, with little or no change in facial expression throughout.

2.) This person somehow has an answer and/or explanation for absolutely everything and tends to brag or boast of having experienced the best and the worst in life at one time or another. Repeatedly uses a list of memorized and rarely-used/obsolete vocabulary, to purposely leave question marks in the listener's mind.

3.) Makes numerous conflicting statements, but when called on them, can immediately jump to his/her defense with an off the wall (yet logical-sounding) explanation.

4.) When you intentionally ask a question (and you should) the answer to which you are 100% certain yet receive the wrong answer from the liar. (Resist the urge to correct them.)

5.) This person will also bring up names of places he/she has never been, with people who are figments of their imagination with the precise intent to force you into the dark and the unknown. Since you cannot immediately disprove any of this an air of confidence may be detectable in the liar's attitude and facial expression.

6.) This is a huge red flag: Compulsive Liars are the world's most expert blamers and finger-pointers. They are the buck passers and the perpetual victim in any situation. A continual monologue of placing blame upon every one and anyone other than him/her self.

While I have listed only 6 points of alert, I am confident these are the best and easiest for most people to recognize with little difficulty. I'm also pretty sure at this moment, each of you is thinking about someone you know who fits each and every point. Remember my advice to use caution here.

Hubber Christin Sanders

HeeeeeeeeeR's   CHRISTON!  Superb writer and pretty too!
HeeeeeeeeeR's CHRISTON! Superb writer and pretty too! | Source

Giving Credit where due

I would like to thank Christin Sanders from Midwest, America....aka Hubber ChristinS, who posted an interesting Question on our mutual Freelance Writer's site, "Hubpages," which was the inspiration for my hub.

Christin is an Apprenticeship Alumni, who has been with Hubpages for approximately 2 years. In this time Christin has published 122 hubs, has 782 followers, accrued over 100,000 views and has been awarded 17 Accolades. Christin is a talent to be reckoned with. Do yourself a favor and read her work. It is all fabulous.

Remember to VOTE!!!!

Compulsive/Pathological Liars: In my Lifetime, thus far...

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176 comments

fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 5 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Wilma, I'm not surprised you know at least 2 pathological liars. Like my title indicates, "they;re everywhere." Not too hard to spot, but very difficult to tolerate. Best to avoid & ignore them! Peace, Paula


Wilma Henry profile image

Wilma Henry 5 months ago from Kentucky

I know two people I consider to be pathological liars. One has the monotonic, (is that even a word!?) unemotional approach and the other has a dramatic flair. What they have in common is the know-it-all, superior attitude and the need to argue over everything.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

sweet of you to say.....This old lady is calling it a day. Been up since 4 am.

Don't ask WHY. It's what time I woke up! LOL...Now I'm both tired & hungry. This calls for PB&J in bed! I own the WHOLE bed!! LOL


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

It helps to have friends like you, trust me. :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Not I honey...that's for sure. I think you've got the hang of this just fine!! LOL


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

Ha! I could surely do without anymore practice. What can I say? I told you I'm surrounded. If I really lost my mind, who could blame me?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Gosh Shan.....sounds SPOOKY.....I'm happy you deal with it so well. See what practice does?? LOL!! You must be expert level by now.


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

Bahahaha! Ha! And to think. . .Crazy came out to play just to prove she wasn't! Over a photo of a straight jacket that says insanity runs in the family that someone else posted three years ago!!! Now I hacked her Facebook and she's dying again. I wasn't the only one under fire and no one even mentioned her name. So I did ask if she has a guilty conscience. But, seriously, I almost busted out laughing at work just thinking about it. Perhaps I do need that straight jacket after all. LOL Office work. . .LMAO. . .you'd run. . .with good reason.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Shan.... You crack me up! Now don't keep me hanging off a cliff, girl! Get on that email! You're putting me right back in the office you know!! LOL That's OK. You're worth it! :)


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

Oh, crazy exploded today!!!!! Hashanah and all I can do is think of your hub!!!!!!!


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

Come at your own risk! This is the kind of bat-shit crazy that causes crazy's face to turn lobster red while yelling and carrying on.

Oh yeah, you said forewarned is forewarned. Hahaha


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

You laugh. That must mean I should start packing!


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

LMAO!!!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Gosh.....That's awful! Want me to move in with you for a couple weeks?

LMAO!!! I'll clean house for you and straighten out the Riff-Raff.....and I don't mean vacuum and mop floors!!


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

I don't have the energy to deal with the aftermath of calling bullshit. Trust me, around here, it's a big dramatic blowout when someone does.


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

But there's bat shit crazy and than there's BAT SHIT CRAZY. LOL. The latter is maybe not so fun, at least not while it's happening. But those lies can sometimes be amusing too. Unless they are of the more serious nature. I've seen people fall for them and not much I can do about it. But people will hang over money for them and it makes me wanna scream DON'T DO IT! Oh, but the ridiculous lies of little harm. . what else to do but laugh?


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Shanmarie......Now "bat-shit crazy" I definitely KNOW~~intimately! LOL In fact, I just used that term a few days ago. Once in a while it's fun to communicate with someone who is bat-shit crazy, don't you think?

Not only do they make me Laugh my ass off.....but just think of how wonderfully "normal" they make us feel!!..........................LMAO!


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

Well. I can practice my pathological lying acting abilities and see what kind of lie I can concoct on the spot about what it means to be mustache crazy. . .It can't be any crazier than batshit crazy, of that I'm certain! Hahahaha I have plenty of experience dealing with that too from the same people!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hey Jodah. There is no question that these individuals actually believe their own deceit. It becomes such a spontaneous part of their personality, after a while, they become incapable of making any truthful statements whatsoever. Of course there are degrees and some are much more worrisome than others.

The thing is, it becomes apparent to so many people who become involved with them. Losing all credibility is not a position any normal adult wants to foster.

I am sad today because 2 people I am very fond of have had a clash of words & I'm struggling through with trying to know what to say or do. I feel badly that there's little I can say. However, just as this hub of mine explains, quite often it can be best to say nothing, rather than grope for the proper verbiage. I'm sure you know what I mean, Jodah.

Thanks for stopping by. Enjoy the rest of your week-end. Paula


Jodah profile image

Jodah 8 months ago from Queensland Australia

Hi Paula, I only just realised that this is an old hub. Nonetheless, it is a great topic and very informative read. I do know one or two people who fit the description. The thing is I think they get to the stage that they really believe everything they say even though most of it is lies. It is like they are an actor trying to become the character they are playing.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I didn't even want to ASK what "mustache crazy," means. If there is such a thing, I probably wouldn't understand!! LOL


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

Mustache crazy? I should learn not to use my phone to leave comments. It tried to call it the butt hut when I said I feel like I've been to the nut hut in that email I sent! LOL


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Great Plan of action! You're one smart cookie!! LOL


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

Hahaha. Well, I fully realize who I am talking to and that's why I said "most people." Insane, dysfunctional, pathological liars. . I've seen more than I ever care to see again. But instead of standing back to watch the show, I make myself scarce whenever possible. I'd really rather prefer to think they are rare beings and I'm mustache crazy one to find myself in the middle every now and again. Ha!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I doubt you could tell me anything I would doubt~~ or haven't heard a few times already!! LOL


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

I try! But can't always. I could tell you some stories that most would doubt and think I'm the liar.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

You may stop wondering Shanmarie. The answers are Yes~~ & Yes. It's a constant battle. Stay out of firing range.


shanmarie profile image

shanmarie 8 months ago from Texas

Oh my gosh, I've been surrounded by them. Such a strange experience, for lack of a better word. I wonder sometimes if they believe their own lies even though they cannot possibly be true. I also wonder if it can be hereditary? If so, that is a truly sobering thought.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 11 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

thanks for the head's up on your new hub....I'm in Georgia at the moment visiting son & family for 3 weeks.....on borrowed MAC from Daughter in law...I don't want to spend too much time on it.....so, Ill catch your hub asap. No doubt it is awesome. You write great stuff regardless of topic.

Hey....my son moved from outside of Atlanta, further NORTH NEAR THE TENNESSEE! Right now darling, we are only 4 hrs apart! The closest we've ever been.....and WILL ever be! LOL


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 11 months ago from Houston, TX USA

Somethgblue

That is hilarious. Please read my Hubs,

How Would Jesus See The Gettysburg Address?

Patrick Henry and Mental Health

What do you think?


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 11 months ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Here is quote from an article of mine that Hub Pages in their divine wisdom has removed the Advertising from because it just may have a little too much truth in it and might make folks uncomfortable.

"Wikipedia defines a psychopath as a person lacking empathy with little or no control over their anti-social behavior.

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (or sociopathy (/ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/)) is a personality trait or disorder characterised partly by enduring anti-social behavior, a diminished capacity for empathy or remorse, and poor behavioral controls.[1]

Considering the current state of foreign affairs lead by the American Government in terms of unfettered warfare throughout the world with little regard for collateral losses, the above definition is a good illustration of America's political character."

It is entitled American Is Ruled by Psychopaths and although I generally don't delve into politics, the truth is the truth and sometimes just needs to be shared.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 11 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Jay...In as much as both narcissism & compulsive Lying are pathological (forms of mental illness) yes, they're "related," so to speak.

Some experts make Mental disorder Stew and throw several, often ALL personality disorders into one pot. This can be acceptable at times, depending on situations, age, history, diagnosis etc.

I'll just say this much with a fair amount of confidence. One would be hard pressed to encounter a pathological liar who is not a stark narcissist.....and vice/versa.

You might want to rationalize for a moment....A glaring narcissist would have to maintain his own self-perceived PERFECTION, by firmly believing the lies he tells himself~~~make sense to you? Practice lying to yourself long enough and hard enough and you can whip out that BS to anyone, anytime.

Thanks for stopping by. Have a Merry Christmas.


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 11 months ago from Houston, TX USA

Here is another Hub I am reading on mental health, "The Child Victim of a Narcissistic Personality Disordered Parent."

Are the two related?


DzyMsLizzy profile image

DzyMsLizzy 11 months ago from Oakley, CA

Oh. My. Goodness!

"Drama Queen; perpetual victim; never her fault; name-dropper;" ... you have just described my step-daughter. I had met her only a couple of times, briefly, before early 2015, when circumstances in her life left her with no place to live and she had to move in with us.

Some of the stories she tells--to avoid admitting she spent money on stuff she shouldn't have, for just one example, it's always, "I won it," or "So-and-so gave it to me." And it's always a long and involved story and odd set of circumstances that led to the "win" or the "gift."

There are days when I'm tempted to come back at her by saying simply, "And to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street." At 38 years of age--she should 'get' the reference....


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 11 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hello rj......sounds as though you might just have a little knowledge! LOL it amazes me how the average unsuspecting person can be so easily and quickly taken in by these deceitful creatures. However, this is only because I can spot them in an instant.

The reality is, Pathological liars are quite adept at what they do. Yes, because they have, in their illness, been able to train their brains to BELIEVE their own lies.

Thanks for the visit.


rjbatty profile image

rjbatty 11 months ago from Irvine

The most expert liars are the ones who somehow convince themselves that their phony stories are real and true. This makes them almost impossible to detect. With the casual liar, you can detect subtle facial changes, eyes being adverted, a barely noticeable change in voice. The professional liar is someone who self-identifies himself/herself with a fabrication to an extent that the lie actually becomes reality in their mind. That's when things get really scary.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 15 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Congratulations. You probably have fewer nightmares than the rest of us!

Seriously, if it should ever interest you, you can always read up on it. There are untold # of articles, several books....video of the trial...etc.

Or you can just ask me....I know it from start to finish and every bloody, brutal moment in between!


CatherineGiordano profile image

CatherineGiordano 15 months ago from Orlando Florida

I didn't follow the Jodi Arias case at all.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 15 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Catherine......And I remember thinking, in all my decades of face to face interaction with these sickos, Casey ranked among the top 5 worst. However, then along came a spider named, "Jodi Arias." Did you happen to follow that case?

That woman is BY FAR, the single most outrageous, chilling and psychotic individual of all and ANY (at least "female") LIARS of all time. She is an authentic, text book classic "PATHOLOGICAL Criminal." Still gives me shivers to think about that SPOOK.

I actually signed a petition that circulated to members of the American Association of Professional Mental Health Clinicians, to the Board of Ethics & Standards to conduct a thorough investigation into LaViolette (the "alleged" Domestic Violence Counselor) who claims to have come to the conclusion that Jodi had been a victim of abuse by Travis.......It's really frightening when the counselor is crazier than the patient!........Thanks Catherine.


CatherineGiordano profile image

CatherineGiordano 15 months ago from Orlando Florida

fpherj48: I live in Florida and followed the Casey Anthony case. (She lived in Florida also.) I think she lied so much that even she did not know the difference between truth and lies anymore. You did a nice job of explaining this pathology.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 17 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

"But what's a person to do?"

1.) Do not believe a word that comes from their Liar's mouth.

2.) Avoid them whenever possible.

3.) Do not encourage them to keep talking.....and do not bother with questions. All the answers are totally untrue.

4.) Be very GLAD you're not one of them!!

Thanks for stopping by. Nice to meet you AND THAT'S THE TRUTH!


sunflowerforests profile image

sunflowerforests 17 months ago from The light in the forest of doubt.

They really are everywhere! I agree. lol But what's a person to do? We can't hide from it. Very interesting perspective from Ms. Paula's hub collection. Thanks!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 17 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Jay &

Robin

I thank you both for stopping by and adding your thoughts. I always appreciate feedback and I'm glad to know 2 hubbers who are new to me!

Pathological Liars are far more common than most ordinary people can imagine. Even here in the comments you can see people saying they "don't think they know any pathological liars." HA! I merely have to accept that most people do not know the signs and symptoms or just haven't been personally affected by these sneaky devils.

As my Title suggests...THEY'RE EVERYWHERE


RobinGrosswirth23 profile image

RobinGrosswirth23 17 months ago from New York

Sadly, I have had experience with this as a victim. And, many who are just bystanders who aid and abet because as we all know, bullies/sociopaths, generate fear, not respect, and people are only too happy to follow so as not to be harmed themselves.


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 19 months ago from Houston, TX USA

This article hit a chord with me. After all these years I have come to the conclusion that most people have some form of mental illness. The goal now is to analyze yourself and learn to deal with it. I invite you to read the Hub "The Cause of Dracula," which suggests a scientific basis for mental illness in humanity.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 21 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

The best news is their own lies is what ultimately destroyed their lives.


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 21 months ago from Orlando, FL

I had forgotten about this article! You nailed Jodi and Casey to the wall with your description of pathological liars! And that ain't no lie! :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Thanks, Mira. Her sentencing hearing is currently in progress, although not televised. I have to listen to the after reports. I'm glad you enjoyed my hub.


Mira Fang profile image

Mira Fang 2 years ago from Canada

Very interesting article. I could almost feel the heat coming off the words at times. I am rather familiar with the case of Arias, so just seeing her image was a potent addition to the article. I enjoyed this immensely.


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Know the feeling, went into the bank today with my change jar thinking I might be able to get 30 to 35 bucks out of it, never cashed it in before and the lady that showed me how to work the change machine told me it was at least 80, turned out to be $117.28, whoo-ho!

I've never learned to exist on solar power . . . yet so I guess I'll just have to continue to consume mass quantities.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

You are a laugh a minute.....not to mention "one of a kind." Thanks for my evening entertainment and education. I'm glad you don't charge for this. I'm totally broke! LOL


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Yeah, they lip synqed on their videos but unlike the hundreds of other performers that did so as well they got outed. To me it was no biggie and didn't detract from their music, so what if they didn't sing all their tunes, it was still good.

"Girl you know it's true, ooh, ooh, ooh."

When thinking outside the six sided cardboard platonic solid becomes the norm I will finally be able to have a conversation without giving a history lesson, whew that will be a relief.

I don't know how clever that was but it is rare to find like minded folks, although I ran into four last weekend at various spots throughout the small town I live in and was pleasantly surprised.

I just spent most of the weekend trying to explain to someone on examiner.com that I don't require proof, evidence or facts to determine the truth, just what I feel in my heart. He couldn't understand the premise that I think 'science' is a theory created to show how statistics can quantify the truth.

That scientist's only look at the information that supports their theories and don't include esoteric knowledge, ideas and feelings. That stats and recorded data is only one small part of the equation and that your reality starts and ends with what you feel in your heart to be true.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probable has web feet . . . "so be kind to your web footed friends, for a duck maybe somebody's moootheer!"

As I like to say "Does a one wing duck fly in a circle?"


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

"Milli Vanilli"....LOL! There's a blast from the past. Weren't they exposed as lip-sync-frauds? Or am I thinking of some other group?

I don't know Daniel, I've come to expect your very unique and "signature" take on just about any topic. Always interesting and you definitely cause readers to use some brain power.

What will happen when "thinking out of the box"....becomes the norm?

I have no doubt that you are going to answer my question....and very cleverly!.......Thanks again for your contribution....:)


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Thought you might find this interesting . . .

The liars who lie about psychiatry

by Jon Rappoport

October 14, 2014

www.nomorefakenews.com


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Of course because a P Liar 'thinks' they can get away with anything and because of this develop a sense of superiority, they may believe they can do drugs because they are in complete control and this gives them the false sense of security to do them with impunity.

Drug addicts (alcohol is a drug labeling them as separate plays into the disinformation on the subject) become excellent Liars because of the need to cover their guilt associated with drug abuse and to mask their disingenuous behavior, take it from an expert.


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

I get his newsletter and although he can be long winded he was an award winning journalist for many years before he went out on his own.

I have yet to read his book series, mostly because I have already arrived at the same information independently, plus it is a lot like David Icke and lord knows he is long winded.

Poor parenting was created as a means to an end by The Powers That Be and is a viscous cycle. The sound foundation of families provided the biggest obstacle to the NWO agenda so they actually promoted and instituted the free love experience of the 60s to divide and conquer.

So as Milli Vanilli sang . . . "Blame it on the rain, ooh, ooh, ooh!"


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Daniel.....So good to see you stranger! As always, you contribute much to a discussion. Thank you so much for the link. Quite a long article but well worth reading every word. I haven't a single argument with Mr. Rappoport's excellent report. It's clear he has done his homework and has some hard core evidence.

I am especially adverse to medicating children, in terms of all the ADHD nonsense. IMHO, many of the behaviors that seem to become "issues" are in fact due to less-than-acceptable parenting skills, allergies and (as the article suggests) short-cut, inaccurate diagnoses in the first place.

BTW....that comment about poor parenting is sure to garner me a few harsh words from some "doting" parents.....But I can take it.

Thanks for stopping by. Hope all is well in your world!...Peace, Paula


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Fox.....There actually is no factually documented "connection" between this particular disorder and drug/alcohol abuse. In fact....and this is interesting....Pathological liars are more often than not so intelligent and "self-aware" that they shun mind-altering substances as if to always have the need to be in total control of their faculties. If we think about that, it makes sense. Think of how difficult it is to lie about 90% of your life and keep track of it all!

However, somewhere in my hub I'm sure I mention that the LIE is their drug......or there "fix," so to speak. Like any mental disorder, there is usually a pay-off for the Liar.

What blew me away was all the comments from people who "didn't think they knew any pathological liars." The reality is, it is so pervasive, that's not even possible. All this tells me is that these individuals are not "recognizing" the culprits.

Thanks for stopping by Foxy! Always good to hear from you...and I'm not lying!


Writer Fox profile image

Writer Fox 2 years ago from the wadi near the little river

It's been my experience that pathological liars also lie when there is no discernible reason for telling a lie. I've often wondered if drug abuse has a part to play in this personality disorder as well.

You present some profound information here and I especially appreciated your six-point list. Voted up and useful!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hey.....a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do......Whatever works! I commend you! Clever is a GOOD thing!...LOL


David Stone1 profile image

David Stone1 2 years ago from New York City

It's interesting. When I was is in business as a freelance print broker, I discovered that one man I depended on for work I contract out was a pathological liar. At the time, I did my research and got an idea about the causes behind the trait and used what I knew to get him to be a reliable business partner.

For the record, pathological liar suffer low self-esteem, which is what all the lying is cover for, and they are paranoid. I'm not sure it was the most selfless time in my life, but I always thought it was one of the cleverest.

Thanks for the smart hub. I appreciated reading it.


arksys profile image

arksys 2 years ago from Adelaide, Australia

we get cnn , bbc and fox news here ... although i don't follow any news... i've seen the pics before ... on tv. i'll read about them.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Irfan......Are these high profile Trials televised in Pakistan? If they are, that's very interesting to me. Of course, anyone could have followed this bizarre case in print and online. If it had not been so many miles away from my home, I'd have definitely been present in the court room, every minute of every day.

The woman is beyond an enigma. Every mental health professional sees a goldmine of discoveries and education in Jodi. They will be clawing at the jailhouse doors to get at her mind.

Sadly for Travis....it was not her mind he was focused on.....until perhaps it was a bit too late. Thanks for stopping by, Irfan.


arksys profile image

arksys 2 years ago from Adelaide, Australia

great players they may seem, they can only win if they don't spend too much time in the same place. took me about 2 weeks to conclude there was something seriously wrong in her head. Walk away as fast as you can, coz they really know how to screw with your head...

Good hub Paula ... +


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hmmmm....I have this phrase ringing in my ear, Lady G....."The apple doesn't fall far from the tree"......Thanks for stopping by,hon.....and GOOD FOR YOU for standing up to a liar and pointing out their deception!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 2 years ago from West Virginia

Wow and yes I know one specific person on HP that is one of these and I also know a family member of mine or two that are one of these too. Boy did my family member get really upset when I called her out on her lies and she blocked me from her life. So be it. It did hurt at first, well for a few months and now....well she got caught in one of her lies about me and let her stew in that. Funny thing though how she "manipulated" me into believing that her father (we have been divorce since 1991) is a pathological liar....REALLY??? I already knew that. The funny this is that she calls him that too and yet she goes right to others and lies about me. Oh the DRAMA QUEEN!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

"Grumpy," Yes....You. No denial allowed. Just a lesson in term analysis.

Ass U Me..........I will ASSUME you know the definition.......Smile....

Peace, My friend. How's the weather in Tennessee? It's August here in NY too.....but, we're obviously being granted a preview of Autumn....which is absolutely fine with me...Did I tell you already that I spent some time in Johnson City Tennessee in the '70's? If I did, sorry for repeating myself........Luego, Hombre bueno.


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Grumpy, Moi? You asked me to explain a certain aspect of the situation, which I did and then I no longer heard from you again, I mistakenly 'assumed' my explanation didn't fit your paradigm.

I have since discovered that I am not the only 'no planer' in the world and that may others have jumped on that band wagon however me and John Lear seem to have been the first to publicly discuss the topic.

I might have thought it was the biggest lie in his story years ago but realize now it is not even close.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Kevin.....I appreciate your thoughtful comment. There are many theories, both professional and otherwise (through experience) that can help us to understand the unusual wiring of the brain of sociopaths. There has been even further study in terms of the specific catalysts that direct a human being to pursue one path or the other.

FYI....in nearly every instance of the severe pathology of deception and manipulation.....it is clearly evident and has been duly noted that during early adolescence, the child repeatedly experiences what is perceived as "beneficial, positive" results and reaction to providing lies as opposed to going through the process of learning to live and grow through the process of trial and error.

This continues to reinforce the negative behavior despite inevitable chaos and destruction. The Liar merely chooses to perfect his/her craft.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hendrika......So glad you stopped by for a visit. I appreciate your interest in my hub. Seeing your bio reminds me to do some research on an Oscar Pistorious update! It must be quite the seriously high-profile case in So. Africa. Have you a strong opinion on this tragedy? Would truly be interested in your thoughts........


klw1157 profile image

klw1157 2 years ago from Macon, GA

Liars are a unique and interesting phenomenon and I am not sure that we as a society know exactly where they come from or specifically what helps to develop the trait in someones personality. I believe we are all possess the impulse to lie as a matter of self preservation or to achieve the greater good IE. not hurting someone we care about."Yes I like your new haircut" or "No you don't look like you have gained weight" when those things couldn't be less than that which we really think. To me, while still technically wrong if you are striving to follow a truthful path in life that concept carries with it a certain degree of understandability. What I cannot get my mind around is someone who chooses to lie in a case where the truth would actually be as good or better. It seems to me that those people only serve to make their lives more difficult and risk real embarrassment when and if exposed. I had a coworker for a time who apparently simply could not tell the truth. He would lie in what seemed to me to be something of a past time and as far as I could tell never had any guilt or remorse in doing so. That, to me was frankly inconceivable and to this day is still as perplexing as ever.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

blue.....The news media is shameful, no doubt. When you know which slant is pushed on which network or cable channel, before even watching.....it's fairly easy to see what manipulators they are. I almost can't bear to listen most of the time.

That's where it's a great thing to have our own intelligence and common sense. Problem being, too many people are so easily deceived.

I certainly did respond to your hub explaining your opinion of 911! Of course it blew my mind.....but I wouldn't say "cognitive dissonance has reared it's ugly head." I even did some research on that (cog dis) as you suggested I do. I'm always open to all things, blue.

You know buddy, I could say the same thing about not hearing from you for several days! Right? LOL.....Thanks for stopping by.....good to see you, even when you're grumpy!! LOL


Hendrika profile image

Hendrika 2 years ago from Pretoria, South Africa

All this is very interesting. Funny enough I have know 2 sociopaths (both dead now) and they did lie when needed to avoid trouble, but when the truth would do they told the truth. So, after reading this I came to realize that not all sociopaths are pathological liars. Very interesting!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Dolores.....You are so right. Isn't it crazy the way some characters in this world will weave their self into a tiny corner with no exit.....by simple deception? My Dad always said he figured that liars take copious notes!! LOL.......How else could someone remember there own game??

Thanks so much for visiting!


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Were you aware that in 2003 the US Supreme Court ruled that TV News stations were entertainment shows and that they did not have to 'tell' the public the truth?

Not one TV News station picked up and ran this story anywhere in the USA, not one!

So you see that Pathological Liars includes our TV News Media as well, is censorship lying?

If the TV News shows you airplanes hitting the world trade centers, knowing that it is animation, designed to confuse you into believing it is true, is it not a form of entertainment? If all the stations show you the same thing is it not a form of collusion, designed to entertain you?

Since you read my 'no planes' article I haven't heard from you, a sign that cognitive dissonance is rearing its ugly head once more.


Dolores Monet profile image

Dolores Monet 2 years ago from East Coast, United States

This is one of those hubs where the comments are as interesting as the hub itself! I've often wondered how liars are made. What leads them into this weird behavior. I say weird because it sure seems like a lot of trouble. If you are lying to get out of something, to cover up criminal or immoral activity that's one thing, but just to lie and lie. Honesty is so much easier!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

poetryman.........They have, they do and they always will!!! My sentiments exactly! Pretty damned sad, isn't it? Or is that scary? Maybe both!

Thanks for your realistic input!!


poetryman6969 profile image

poetryman6969 2 years ago

I thought they were all running for high political office.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

or rocky road, or butter pecan, hagendaas, caramel marble, chocolate chip, strawberry, ...and then there's sherbet,frozen yogurt, Italian ice, ............I'm sorry, blue.....did you say something about behavior modification?


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Discipline is the key to all behavior modifications . . . take chocolate ice cream for instance.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

blue....You always add such interesting and helpful information to any topic. None of us can ever learn enough, most especially about our own species.

The ego is a powerful and feisty character and yes, it is surely a difficult stretch to admit one's faults and shortcomings.

Co-dependency (IMHO) is even more difficult to deal with. I know first hand. When you genuinely love someone and are also in a position of "protecting" by nature & habit......it's a bit_h to try to STOP.

One more thing, blue. I will be referring to you as "Mr. Man" from this point on. It suits you. You do make me giggle. "Thinking like a man," is 2nd nature to me......raised 4 very healthy (disgustingly macho) male children. Had the common sense to hand them off asap to other very strong, loving and FORGIVING women.....but I'm hopeless, my pets are all males. Behave yourself.....:)


somethgblue profile image

somethgblue 2 years ago from Shelbyville, Tennessee

Most illuminating grasshopper however having grown up with one I'm quite familiar with the warnings signs. What I will add though is that these people are capable of change.

Sometimes it doesn't take a near death experience (NDE) to make that change, just a life altering experience such has having kids of your own to recognize the destructive behavior and break the cycle.

While I can recognize some of the warning signs in myself as character defects, I would not consider myself in this category, however I maybe biased.

A true pathological liar will have a very difficult time changing their behavior as this is a disease of the mind or more aptly put the Ego. The success they develop early in their lives, that often goes uncorrected or even recognized is what leads to the disease itself.

Left unchecked, it is a self perpetuating disease that to the victim (oh yes victim) as most PLs are intelligent enough to know they are hurting others around them and love them, they simply feel they have no choice and must continue to keep their sanity intact.

This is a form of Cognitive Dissonance and the reason I wanted you to read my article about it. Isn't synchronicity amazing, as I am know writing about the role drugs have in the disinformation game and let's face lying is a drug .

When you base your entire life experience on continuous lies, then admitting to yourself and to God you're a pathological liar is easy however admitting to someone else, even a complete stranger, is extremely difficult.

Consider the damage you would do to your own Ego if you had to admit that you're a liar, a cheater and a thief. As a recovered alcoholic and drug addict this is precisely the kind of spiritual awakening one must go through to recover and the biggest reason people simply do not recover.

Less than 1% of addicts (alcohol is a drug) ever truly recover because it requires opening your mind to the truth, this grasshopper is why I can explore so many topics with an open mind and critical thinking. recognizing my own character defects is the first step in correcting them.

I feel empathy and anguish to those that feel the need to lie, I learned early in life, that I suck at it and would just tell my parents the truth but get this after a while they quit asking me because they didn't want to face the truth that their child had some problems with drugs.

If we don't confront our loved ones the first time we recognize this behavior we have then become the enabler and are essentially in denial, it is always a two way street.

Great article, the writing shows a lot of passion and emotion, which makes me wonder about other stuff . . . try thinking like a man, lol.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Quite true Beth....once we have had an experience with a bone-fide pathological liar, we'll remember them always....and this is a GOOD thing. We do want to have the ability to recognize them when we encounter them. They are capable of much destruction.


bethperry profile image

bethperry 2 years ago from Tennesee

Very enlightening Hub! I have been fortunate to have known only a few pathological liars; a couple I came to know through professional encounters, the other being someone that, for some time, I believed was a friend. In all cases (and despite the damage I came to see they enjoyed inflicting on others) they were people who are hard to forget. All the same, it is sad that these kind of folks can work so diligently on their on inventive lies, and yet think the world owes them.

Voting up. Good article.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Exactly Scott! :) and trust me.....with years, the memory fades. Fortunately, there's a magical age/stage we reach, when we feel totally FREE and at liberty to "tell it like it IS!".......Personally, I love it.


Scott P Williams profile image

Scott P Williams 2 years ago from Miami, Florida

It takes so much effort to lie. I don't have that much energy and my memory isn't that good. Mark Twain was right...tell the truth!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

LOL.....Deborah....but without people like her, where would we get our On-the-job-entertainment? I've had encounters with these Super Liars that have completely stunned me into a trance.....totally numbed by the shock of these characters thinking everyone around them is brainless.....and believes the outrageous crap that comes out of their mouths!!

I've often thought that they get away with it sometimes, because the victims of their lies are simply SPEECHLESS!! LOL


DeborahNeyens profile image

DeborahNeyens 2 years ago from Iowa

When I was a practicing employment law attorney, I had a long-drawn out case involving a pathological liar. If she only had put a tenth of the effort into her job into coming up with lies about everything (from her employment referenced to why she could never show up for work), she would have been a superstar employee.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

tammy.....Don't we all wish this! That's one of the mysteries in life......but the truth is (pun intended) "experience" is the way we learn best, don't you agree?

We have to encounter these characters and suffer the consequences of our innocence, in order to become more alert to their game. I, for one, always made the mistake of not doubting or questioning what people say.

By the time we've figured it out, we've already suffered. From that point on, it's a struggle to not become too jaded!

Yeah, Tammy, I'm "around" as much as time allows. Just not as much as I was. Unfortunately, real life has changed my schedule ....LOL

So good to hear from you, Miss Arts and Crafts!!


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 2 years ago from North Carolina

Fpherj48!!! I wish I would have known what I know now about pathological liars when I was very young and gullible. I think this should be taught to young people in school. Glad to see you around these parts! Great hub!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Vee.....I am extremely familiar with the Amanda Knox case.....I won't get into it deeply at the moment.. It is one heck of a long, complex, bizarre case.

IMO....the one and only person responsible for the murder of Meredith Kirchner, is IN PRISON serving his sentence "Rudy Gudeaux (I may have misspelled his last name) he originates from the Ivory Coast. he confessed to the murder.

The Italians made a complete & fairly "fabricated" mess of this from the start. The original Italian Prosecutor was a criminal himself, as well as nasty old pervert who literally "concocted" his own personal rendition of some "sex game gone awry"....with Meredith, Rudy, Amanda and her boyfriend Rafael Solecito, all involved. CRAZY.

I don't believe for one second that Amanda and Rafael had a single thing to do with Meredith's gruesome death.

Whenever an American is charged and tried in another country it is very difficult to follow, due to the seriously different Judicial systems........but bottom line, you wanted my opinion. This is it.


Victoria Lynn profile image

Victoria Lynn 2 years ago from Arkansas, USA

Oh, my, unfortunately I have known several of these, and even more unfortunately, I had one as a boss. You describe these people perfectly, and yeah, that cold, blank stare.

Hey, do you have an opinion on Amanda Knox? Familiar with her case? Supposedly killed her roommate in Italy but claimed her innocence. Served some time but finally was freed, but I think, last I heard, that she has been returned to Italy again, so I'm not sure. I saw her on a talk show once, and I couldn't figure her out. Curious . . . .


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

midget38

Hackslap

The bad news is, they're everywhere and will be forever....the good news is, we can learn to spot them and protect ourselves from the damage they may inflict.....They know when someone is "on to them"...and quickly move on to the next unsuspecting victim...They have amazing TENACITY!


Hackslap profile image

Hackslap 2 years ago from Sydney, Australia

I have a couple of pathological liars in my family! ..this article's a real heads up... good work!


midget38 profile image

midget38 2 years ago from Singapore

They're everywhere indeed! And we've all been a victim. A wonderful analysis, Paula.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Nadine......ALWAYS, always......trust your intuition. It lives within us for that express purpose. (and I'll bet you've ALWAYS known that)

Sometimes we simply need validation, confirmation and encouragement. I know I do.

Thank you for reading and commenting. I am pleased to meet a new friend, here at the Hub.......or anywhere, actually!......Peace, Paula


Nadine May profile image

Nadine May 2 years ago from Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa

My goodness i now know for sure that my intuition about 2 people were correct. Thank you.this was a really interesting hub and i learned a great deal


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Denise......Oh Lord, girl....do not get me started on Scott Peterson! LOL. It's good you and I live on opposite sides of the country. I'm afraid I would corner you and stalk you for unending hours of discussion.

I'm retired, have been for years (early retirement)....but I confess, I will forever be "crazy about learning more and more about CRAZIES!" It's literally in my blood. The huge difference now is that I no longer get a paycheck. That's a word of warning....be prepared.

I believe I'd be blessed "to get sucked down into negativity!" Maybe I'd give it all up and take ballet lessons or something, with my time...something nice, calm and healthy! But I get fired-up and filled with the passion to grab my armor and my sword........Yeah, you're right, Denise. Perhaps we should wonder about our own sanity! LOL!


Denise Handlon profile image

Denise Handlon 2 years ago from North Carolina

Paula, I agree with your comments about Jody...I've never met a woman, through crime or fame, as notorious as she is for her cold, calculating, murderous ways. Of course, throughout history there may have been others who would put her to shame, but she was an amazing character! I can only imagine that the psychiatrists would use her for a case study. I didn't see Casey in the same light at all.

I was also struck with the Scott Peterson case because I was out in CA living in that area when it happened. The fact that he went on his merry way and behaved in the way he did was unimaginable. Or, so I thought until I saw Jody's trial.

I loved what you added about the mental health status from those who are fascinated with this pathological behavior...don't we wonder about our own sanity at times?

I complete agree with the exhaustion of the topic when doing a life's work of research on such a dark subject. Since I work in the mental health field I have to watch my energy level not to get sucked down into negativity. Thanks again for the interesting piece.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Brenda.....Oh MY! I could have written your comment, word for word....I had the identical situation you have experienced. This was not a HS friend, but one I met over 4 decades ago and was quite close to for most of them.

It is both sad and shocking when we discover the truth......but the "signs" and red flags were there, as we look back...right? Live and learn. We are wise to walk away and count our blessings.

Peace, Paula


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hi Sally....good to see you again! Yes, we humans certainly ARE complex and fascinating beings....from the beginning of time to the end, Universally...and from birth to death, individually.

Which tells us what? There's an Eternity of learning before us...Stay alert and focused! :)

Thanks so much for your interest in my work. Peace, Paula


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Shyron....Hello and thanks for your interest in my hub. That's quite an impressive observation about Travis on your part. Sadly, Travis cannot be asked what it was he first "saw" in Jody....aside from the fact that she is easy on the eyes, bold and purposeful in exuding her sexuality.

I tend to lean much more on the "Pull toward the FORBIDDEN." Travis made a choice to become very involved with the Mormon Church. IMO, his reasons for this are apparent in his basic personality. Travis had a need for self-improvement (given his upbringing) and for climbing both the corporate and social ladders of Society. The Mormon Church, in particular, is the ideal choice for these things, given their tenets and hierarchy. In fact, he did thrive there and climb quickly, didn't he?

But Oops....This church also has some extremely STRICT rules that MUST be adhered to and held to Church scrutiny at all times. This includes Mormon WOMEN.

and then along came Jody, Miss Loose Morals herself......and he jumped on her....literally. Sure, she became a Mormon. That was the only time she showed a sense of humor. What a joke. No one knew that better than Travis..Horny, but not stupid. My belief is much more on the surface than your deep thought, Shyron. Travis was DRAWN to Jody's freedom to share her anatomy. Period.

Peace, Paula


Bk42author profile image

Bk42author 2 years ago from New York

Very interesting hub. Sadly I have known a few pathological liars in my time one of them having been a "friend" since high school. Throughout the years I had noticed how there were inconsistencies in certain stories and there were times where some things she would tell me seemed a little "off." Years later things fell into play that Showed I didn't know this person at all. Very scary.


sallybea profile image

sallybea 2 years ago from Norfolk

fpherj48

A fascinating read.

The expression, once a liar - always a liar springs to mind. I have certainly met a few pathological liars in my time, one very recently. They are the kind of people who like to poke holes in the fragility of others in an effort to make themselves look smarter. I think this has a lot to do with the liar wanting to control or to be in control.

Then there are the other kind, the ones who get by in life with only telling half of the truth or being just conservative with the whole truth. I sometimes I wonder why they bother because the truth always outs in the end.

I applaud the honestly of the people above, especially those women who have commented about their own experience of living with pathological liars. I doubt that this disease is confined only to men though.

Humans sure are complicated but fascinating beings. I like that you have decided to expose these people for who they are. I hope the expression, that it takes one to know one is not true :)


Shyron E Shenko profile image

Shyron E Shenko 2 years ago

Paula, I personally know 2 for sure, maybe 3, not to sure about the third, maybe not pathological.

I watched all of the trials of Jody and Casey. I think Travis Alexander was drawn to Jody, because he saw himself in her.

Facinating hub,


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

skye2day.....Your comment has made my day......such a nice compliment, like music to a writer's ear! Thank you and God Bless YOU!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Denise.....Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. I appreciate your interest.

You experienced the best education possible, Denise....by living with one of these mysterious creatures. You earned the Savvy Star....the hardest way. (and I am AS curious of your first hand experience)

We can't help it, Denise. This is clearly a fascinating concept, that literally pulls us in to learn more. In fact, you'll appreciate this: One's interest in bizarre human behavior, as well as the degree of fascination, is proof of one's 100% "healthy mental stability." In other words....psst....you and I are "OK"...LOL

I often wonder how I've managed to keep from imploding from overload, after more than 40 years of study, research and experience.

I'm impressed you chose to mention "Jody," as opposed to Casey.....Jody makes Casey look like a complete amateur. In fact, I can confidently say that Jody is far and beyond the most profoundly pathological woman I'm aware of in my adulthood...on the face of the earth. Seriously.

The Mental Health Professionals are frothing at the bit to get at her. She is an entire Nobel Prize BOOK....at least!


skye2day profile image

skye2day 2 years ago from Rocky Mountains

fpherj8, Your writing is fabulous. It moves and flows woman. Thank you so much for writing this. I think for the most part in time per my experience we pick up on the truth tellers and not. This is helpful indeed. The true colors will come out, Amen. We live in a fallen world and the problems as you stated are usually deep-seated roots. There is a chain breaker His name Jesus Christ!!! There is hope for these ill people. May they so be led to truth so they can speak it. God Bless you for your writing. Hugs Galore Love, Skye.

I will go and read your friends work as well, look forward to it.

voted shared


Denise Handlon profile image

Denise Handlon 2 years ago from North Carolina

Paula, this subject has always fascinated me, even when I was a tween. I am still asking "how does it occur at such a young age and why?" It's a mystery I may never solve. In the meantime, I have gotten quite savvy at dealing with people of this personality disorder after living with one for a very long time. I'm curious of your first hand experience...

I enjoyed your hub. I rated it UP/U/I and will share it. It's well written and informative and I liked the disclaimer in the early part of not writing about the two ladies. I followed the Jody case vigilantly and was just in awe of the ease of her lies. Amazing sociopath!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

jainismus......Since you say she was actually innocent, it appears her lawyer did his job well. Certainly not all pathological liars will kill. In fact, most of them are too "paranoid" to attempt a real crime!


jainismus profile image

jainismus 2 years ago from Pune, India

Interesting. I remember an episode of a famous TV serial which portrayed a character which was a pathological liar. She was innocent but facing a murder charge. She said in the court that she was murderer. But her lawyer proved she was not.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

LMAO....just reminded me of what my Dad used to say....Bless his perpetual positive attitude.....He would say, "In order to get smarter, first ya gotta make the mistakes."......Hard to imagine how many more mistakes I can possibly make! Based on this premise, I should have surpassed super genius long ago!!! LOL!!!


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 2 years ago from New York

I have no doubt you get smarter every day!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Ive always liked the color, "rose"......and this is so weird. The only other person in my life who would use that expression with me was my mother. Oddly enough, her name was Rose. But I heard the comment continually, "Oh my dear daughter, you need to think about taking off those rose-colored glasses."

As years have gone by, I know MOST of my mother's words were terribly accurate. However, being a stubborn, independent gal myself, I analyze and weigh all things. When I see a beautiful rose garden....I'm drawn by the beauty of the roses, of course. I know the thorns are there, so I believe if I get STUCK.....it's my own damned fault for being careless or stupid. The rose remains beautiful, and I get smarter!


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 2 years ago from New York

Only you can get away with calling me a darling woman without a cynical bone in my body. It might be the rose colored glasses, I'm not sure.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

LOL....The Teenage years are the Ultimate test of Parental love, patience and understanding......that much I know and can attest to, with confidence. Other than this....I would like to add that I am ecstatic it's ALL( long ago) behind me!!! LOL


North Wind profile image

North Wind 2 years ago from The World (for now)

Thanks for your input anyway. I know it was a hard question I just wanted your thoughts. I was actually thinking along the lines of teenagers but I have also witnessed excessive lying among some children between the ages of 7 and 9. You are right - the behavior goes unchecked and they achieve a certain amount of success and perhaps this is why they continue with it and it gets so out of control.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

North Wind.....When you say "Children," in most minds, this group can cover from Toddler to perhaps as far as High School graduation. For each stage; (pre-school age, elementary, middle, Jr & sr. High) quite a span.....as you can well imagine, there are any number of symptoms and situations to consider, be aware of, try to determine and understand.

There simply is not a wide brush with which to paint the "young" population, in terms of being concerned with a possible pathos developing.

For instance.....have you by chance, seen the YouTube Video which recently went CRAZY viral, involving the little boy, candy sprinkles and his mother? It was so popular and wide spread, the child appeared as a guest on the Ellen Degeneris Show. ( You can search YouTube for it, rather than my detailing the story)

In any event, it is what can be described as "adorable and quite hilarious," because of the age and cuteness of the "child culprit." LOL On the clinical and/or psychological side, it is extremely interesting and definitely could create an entire educational discussion.

Small children with vivid imaginations, innocence and love of adventure, can hardly be labeled as liars. This would be ludicrous, right?

The questions are endless. At what age do we expect a child to fully understand the concepts of truth and deceit....the seriousness and/or the consequences of such and in what ways can this be dealt with at a particular point, for an adult to take any action needed, should there be a bona-fide problem?

To be blunt, this is an extremely difficult question to answer in a comment section. It's also a very excellent issue to research for sheer educational purposes, for the responsible and proactive parent/adult.

Yes, lying does have to start somewhere.....but to get to the point of an individual becoming a pathological liar throughout their life....it has to have worked well for them and remained unchallenged and uncorrected by 98% of the victims of their lies.....So as they get more and more expert at their craft, they cause more and more chaos and harm. Ultimately, as has been witnessed repeatedly, they do the most harm to themselves.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Diana....Hello! so good to see you. Thanks so much for visiting. I understand your feelings. None of want to feel as though we're always on alert. Like you, I start out quite happy to believe the best.

When we're faced with disappointing reality......"distance," as you mention, is a good idea.


North Wind profile image

North Wind 2 years ago from The World (for now)

I'd love to know about children who are pathological liars. I suppose the lying has to start somewhere but can it be toned down when they are younger so that it does not get as out of hand when they become adults? Very interesting hub!


teaches12345 profile image

teaches12345 2 years ago

I'm one of those who want to believe the best in people and have been taken advantage of situations. I've learned to keep my mind open to the possibility the person may be lying. Once I know someone to be a habitual liar, I keep my distance. Hope your day is going well, Paula.


annart profile image

annart 2 years ago from SW England

Yes, we've known him for years and never really liked him, though he was tolerated because married to an old friend (French!). They're now divorced so we've distanced ourselves. Even his brother is realising he doesn't really know him! So yes, avoidance is the plan. Thanks! Ann


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

annart....Nice to see you! Thanks for reading & your interesting comment. Also the compliment. Those are always welcome! LOL

Your "friend"...has he always had these tendencies or do you think he may be lonely and desperate for "attention," these days?

If you've experienced this issue with him since you've known him...he may be a CULPRIT! Avoid, whenever possible. LOL


annart profile image

annart 2 years ago from SW England

This is extremely useful. Only today I was discussing someone we know well, in not very complimentary terms, thinking that he was just unpleasant. His 'symptoms' are getting worse and he comes very close to what you describe here; he's an old acquaintance but fortunately no longer someone we see. How strange his name came up at the same time as your hub!

Useful information and advice here and much food for thought. Your research is extensive and clearly imparts such important information.

I enjoy reading your frank, chatty style, whatever the subject.

Happy New Year to you! Ann


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

OK...BUT (blaming someone else).....That NEW hubber named "Travis," started it!! He wrote the damned HUB about "penis envy".........I feel sorry for the poor guy......he got wailed on by several female hubbers!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

OH God....the fun I have, should be illegal!!


marcoujor profile image

marcoujor 2 years ago from Jeffersonville PA

Now I am "pretend" blushing, girlie...but I believe it is "tu" who is chatting about inches...so with literally inches to spare on my last yardstick...I am gonna bubble my way over to.......well, you know :))


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Maria.....I really wish you would refrain from describing anything in terms of inches, these days. There's been way too much discussion about the penis lately. Thank you. I blush easily.....Now, THERE'S one of Tillie's "innocent lies." ROFLMAO....Me, blush? Not a chance!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Well, now let me see, Tillie.....I'm not actually saying there are NO innocent (?) Liars.....even though that is an oxymoron, I think? For instance, the man or woman who might be an "innocent adulterer?"....you mean, like that?

I believe I was referring to the exact scenarios you gave.......so, if I'm walking to your house, & some guy winks at me......but I feel like I need some "sympathy" that day....when I get to your house, I throw myself on the floor and tell you some man dragged me into an alley and raped me....

Or....I'm really a heartless schmuck, who walks past homeless people and gives them a dirty look.........In order "to LOOK BETTER than I am"....I will tell my friends and family how I bought coffee and a sandwich AND a blanket for a homeless man today. I think these are fairly reasonable examples of what you referred to.....maybe not. In any event.....yeah, they would be the "innocent liars." LOL

Now, I would like you to consider this: If we know someone who will lie (FABRICATE) over something this trivial and ridiculous....what sort of contrived whopper, do you suppose they would spit out, for a major, serious event? Note: It's the "little," nonsensical lies that should alert us....IF they are repetitive or habitual.

However, you have just exposed yourself as a darling woman who has not a cynical bone in her body.....and that's why I love you.

BTW.....did I ever tell you about my love-child with Elvis? The kid's worth a fortune!!


marcoujor profile image

marcoujor 2 years ago from Jeffersonville PA

Seriously, it was just a 'little white lie', Mary dear...and it is a double chin actually...I don't quite have two faces yet...(LOL)

Oh Paula, I'll confess...I really was "2" for 10+ months of 1964 but why quibble, I was innocent!


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 2 years ago from New York

So what you're telling me my dear friend is that there is no such thing as an innocent liar? Why those two faced......


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hi Martie!.....You are/were not naive......these people are just VERY good at what they do. Lots of practice and excellent skills at convincing others.

Yes, the every day con-artist is a good example.

I'm not sure I intended to give off "anger" vibes, Martie......disgust, perhaps, but I wouldn't waste my precious emotions to be angry......that would be much-wasted time

I've had no rally with any one Liar in particular, recently. In fact, I'm so adept at immediate recognition of these sweeties, I'm sure I frighten them away......which is my intention.

It amazes me, the number of people who will say they don't think they really KNOW anyone that fits this pathology! Throughout my lifetime, I can honestly claim to have lost count. Hell, I've dated them, lived with or near some.....maintained friendships with several, worked with countless, expert liars. Perhaps I'm just very alert and sensitive to the signs and symptoms.....and at this point in your life...I'll venture to say, you may be also!! Keep that radar in tune, girlfriend!........Peace & Hugs.....I love your visits!


MartieCoetser profile image

MartieCoetser 2 years ago from South Africa

And here am I, Miss Naieve, time and again the ideal victim. Although it doesn't take too long to see through a liar of any sorts, by the time I do, I am already in trouble. Easy to fall in a trap, but not easy to get out of it. Believe it or or, the last one I had to deal with was - so he told the entire world - a gospel preacher, and as far as I know he is still roaming the earth, fooling people as far as he goes. All con-artists are pathological liars.

Excellent take on liars!

I bet you recently had a rally with one, fpherj.... I could feel your anger and disgust :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

I'm THERE!


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 2 years ago

Dear Paula,

I too have been missing. I deleted my hubs and now I am back with a new cast of characters. See you at the Inn!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

pop! So good to see you! Good to see someone like YOU, comment on this particular hub......"The Innkeeper" who TELLS IT LIKE IT IS!!! I've missed you. I admit I've been somewhat MIA.....must be that you have been, as well? Peace, Paula


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Vik....a "vampire," he said......ey? Yeah, sure, OK. I hesitate to consider an accepted and valid Medical term, to describe your roommate (bless your heart, you poor guy).

However, I'm fairly certain we can attach him with a label......just off the top of my head, I'll say..hmmmm "Cuckoo Bird."

I love your sense of humor! LOL


breakfastpop profile image

breakfastpop 2 years ago

This is a very interesting piece of writing. I have definitely worked with people like this and it is both dangerous and maddening. Thankfully, I don't have any of these liars in my personal life.


Vik Beluso profile image

Vik Beluso 2 years ago from Champaign, IL

Great hub. It's strange how many of these people you run into. I had a roommate once who told me he was a vampire, in all seriousness. Why? You tell me. This left me with a choice between believing my new buddy was a blood-sucking monster or an exceptionally dense individual who wanted me to think he was one. What's sad is that I believe this was intended to impress me. I would have been much more impressed if he'd been able to keep a job, vampire or not, so I wouldn't have had to pay his rent. This was only the tip of the iceberg.

Most of the liars like this I've known seem to think that other people are much, much dumber than they are.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Anders.....I would have to say that I chose Casey and Jodi, for a few reasons. They are fairly recent, high-profile cases, that I am personally (& extremely) involved with....as well as, 90% of the public has been, since day one. "Familiar names & faces."

I intentionally did not want to relate my hub to "Serial Killers," other than the brief mention of some, in terms of the "dead eyes" & "demeanor" of accomplished liars.

No doubt, serial killers are more adept at lying.....as well as dozens of other evil and devious vices.

These 2 femme fatales are right off the streets of Hometown America and couldn't appear to be more like "the girl next door," if they wanted.

Funny you would mention "Holmes." Just a month ago, I read several very in-depth articles about that lovely fellow. Talk about pathology??!! You have nailed it. He's got to be very close to #1 !!

Thank you for your input....Stop by any time. :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Google Queen......I'll split the money with you if you keep this QUIET!!!!

LMAO!!!..............It's a really well-spread rumor and much-believed rumor...because I've heard it mentioned even on Talk Shows!!

Can't trust anyone anymore? Isn't that what my hub is about??? LOL


Anders 2 years ago

Curious as to why you picked two female killers as the faces of pathological lying. Statistically they are anomalies as most killers are male. They're not even serial killers, who are even more adept at lying. Henry Howard Holmes, now THAT guy was one of the sickest lying serial killers that ever lived.


DJ Anderson 2 years ago

Who is is susan luccis mother . is it phillis diller.?

Lucci's father, Victor, was a first-generation American. Phyllis Diller, contrary to various internet rumors, is not her mother. Source(s): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Lucci

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200809...

Paula, I had to check your info about Phyllis Dillar being Susan Lucci's Mom. I do not have faith in Wikipedia, so I check a few other sources.

I think it depends on the source that is consulted.

They say it is only a hoax that got started years ago.

There is a reason they call me, "THE GOOGLE QUEEN!!"

aka, DJ.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Believe it or NOT.....Susan does resemble her Mom, when her Mom was MUCH younger.......if you'll notice....Phyllis didn't look half bad at all, after her major cosmetic surgery! Susan certainly doesn't act like Phyllis...bu then, Phyllis is a comedianne! Susan is frilly & sexy! LOL


bravewarrior profile image

bravewarrior 2 years ago from Central Florida

Are you serious? Phyllis Diller is Susan Lucci's mother? Holy crap! She must take after her dad 'cuz she looks nothing like, nor does she act like Phyllis Dillar. (HAA HAA HAAA, she says with 12" cigarette holder in her mouth!) :-)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Sha.....LOL. Well, having lived through this, first hand....I'm sure you are fairly good at identifying these people....."Compulsive Liar" is simply a more common term for Pathological Liar.....or less clinical, if you will. More people are familiar with what "compulsive," means.....So, yes, they are, generally speaking, one in the same....But if you unwrap it all....."Compulsions" ARE pretty much a mental issue, depending on WHAT we're talking about, to what degree and the amount of harm which can be caused to the individual and/or those in their path.......Know what I mean? Liars are COMPELLED to relate BULL$hit...and are basically "Obsessed" by & with LYING.....thus "Obsessive/Compulsive" disorders?......see the clear connection?

I had to laugh, Sha...when you brought up"Susan Lucci"....of all people!....Out with friends one night, I happen to mention that Phyllis Diller is Susan Lucci's mother......and my friends, who know me to be a ballbreaker, laughed like hell. I dared them to BET me. Then I told the witches to quit their laughing and google it! I made 50 bucks...and I damned sure made them pay up! LOL!

Thanks for stopping by, Sha!


bravewarrior profile image

bravewarrior 2 years ago from Central Florida

Paula, my son's father (may he rest in peace) lied constantly. I wouldn't deem him a pathological liar, but a compulsive liar (is there a difference?). He would lie about absolutely everything. He was tall and had a commanding presence and spoke in an authoritative voice. I finally called him on his lying when we were having a discussion about All My Children, a soap opera I used to watch while our infant son was sleeping. Mind you, I'd been watching the soap for years (I don't anymore) so I knew everything there was to know. He offered some fangdangled 'truth' about Susan Lucci (Erica Kane) that was so far off the mark all I could do was laugh and call him a f@*king liar! I proceeded to tell him the truth about whatever it was he was trying to pass off. (It was so ridiculous and soooooo easy to disprove that I don't even remember what it was). The point is, he felt the need to be an authoritarian on everything. Perhaps he was over-compensating for being a high school drop out. Perhaps he felt the need to be the 'man' and prove he was of higher intelligence. I don't know. What's sad is, now that he's gone, everyone that knew him remembers him for talking a line of shit a mile long. Not many people remember his good qualities because he had to be the know-it-all. Truth is, he didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground!


Suhail and my dog profile image

Suhail and my dog 2 years ago from Mississauga, ON

Hahaha. That is an honour for me Lois.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Certainly! I can't help but be honored that Clark Kent visited my hub!! You can call me "Lois."


Suhail and my dog profile image

Suhail and my dog 2 years ago from Mississauga, ON

LOL Paula. Yes questions like those were directed at him by his uncles and aunts, including my late father and by cousins of his age.

But we the younger 'kid' cousins bore the majority of his knowledge imparting sessions without having a right to protest, laugh, or leave the discussion by excusing ourselves.

Thank you very much for an interesting article and then a detailed response on my comments.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Dr. John..precisely...a lot like Chicken Pox....but as painful as shingles!!


Suhail and my dog profile image

Suhail and my dog 2 years ago from Mississauga, ON

DJ Anderson,

Hahaha. If he were your ex then I think you had more of a fun time with him also.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Suhail.....Your hub made me chuckle......"The Know it All," is another type of person, altogether.....and I realize they can be both entertaining and annoying. But they're actually harmless, "relatively speaking."

There's no need to be concerned with their mental health nor stability....and who knows, maybe some people REALLY know how much a Zamboni weighs!!! LMAO!

Since I'm in the habit of having "fun" with people like this.....I would have asked him....."3.2 tons, with or without the driver??" Try handling these people with humor.......lessens the pain! LOL


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Hi Glimmer.......Smart lady! and quick to act! When it comes to these creatures....the sooner they're far away, the better!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

DJ......Women are loyal, by nature...no to mention, loving and forgiving. 13 years isn't as long as some women have wasted on a loser. At least you freed yourself and have faced the reality of it all.

Been there, girlfriend......you, me and MILLIONS of women. Impossible that that number of women are "fools".....seriously.

The sad truth is that ....much as I love them.....men can be dogs. I mean, even the honest man will admit this. (We just have to find him....I think he goes by the name, "Lone Ranger")....giggle smirk!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Nell.....I hear what you're saying about "eyes" giving off certain vibes......but, I'll bet the poor guy was probably just trying to imagine you naked! We won't fault him for that little tug of Mother Nature! LOL


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Tillie....my dear, sweet, "unassuming" kind-hearted, friend. Individuals who "make things up," (LIE) to "make themselves look better"....OR "to elicit sympathy" (Drama & manipulation).....while perhaps, may not present to a Mental Health professional as full-blown compulsive or pathological......(there are numerous factors to consider)...are certainly "distant cousins"...or on his/her way to acquiring the full diagnosis.

Avoiding the TRUTH, running from REALITY, REFUSAL to simply state facts and proven details, RELUCTANCY to assume responsibility for mistakes, errors &/or accidents...Blaming all others....ANY others.....need I go on? These are all....I repeat, ALL...symptoms of at least some degree of pathos.

So, here's a simple rule of thumb (which can be taken with that reasonable grain of salt) IF he/she is not an ATTORNEY (I'm not joking) or an ACTOR, playing a specific role.....OR an individual in the midst of the rare case of protecting immediate danger to his/her LIFE......the examples above, as well as a long list of others in a similar vein....are UNTRUTHS = Fantasy = Manipulation = Deceit, ETC = falling directly below the heading of.......you guessed it..LYING.

My hub is brief and concise. This topic requires an entire Library filled with Text books.....and personal case histories.

All the mentally stable person can do, in the midst of or involved with these darlings.....is be "on to them" & let them go on, as we smirk & roll our eyeballs. Calling these people on their lies can only create incredible frustration for others........"THEY" rarely fold under pressure! Thanks for visiting. I'm so happy to see you!! and that's NO lie! LOL


sheilamyers 2 years ago

This hub made for some interesting reading. You've described at least a few people I've worked with over the years. They range from the people who lie to cause drama to those who just seem to need to be "know it alls". For me, the know it all types are the hardest to figure out because some people do know a little about a lot of things and the liars are good enough to cover their mistaken facts. You've given me some signs to look for when dealing with these kinds of people.


DJ Anderson 2 years ago

Suhail, so you've met my ex-husband? LOL


janderson99 profile image

janderson99 2 years ago from Australia on Planet Water

It's and endemic epidemic, Cheers,


Suhail and my dog profile image

Suhail and my dog 2 years ago from Mississauga, ON

Very informative article!

I don't think I have ever met or known a pathological liar, but have definitely known people who were fraudsters and lying was part of the game.

Other than that, I do know a well educated and quite successful management consultant from within my close relatives who has a habit of exaggerating everything and knowing everything. Of course, everyone in the family and relatives knew about it so we used to laugh behind his back. He was all-knowing. No matter what you asked, he knew the answer.

You ask, " I wonder how much does a Zamboni weights?"

"Oh it is 3.2 tons", comes the reply within a second.

"How tall is the minaret of that mosque", someone asks.

He replies within a fraction of a second, "276 feet".

Someone inquires, "So when can I see you at that place"?

" Twenty three minutes past 4", he chips in.

But other than that he never hurt anybody and nobody ever thought that he meant harm. Actually, he helped lot of us cousins get into our careers and become successful. He just had a habit of concocting numbers and stories at the spur of the moment.

Needless to mention nobody trusted him and his answers.

It goes without saying that us cousins, his many years younger, loved him and his telling those factual stories that had very little element of truth in them (this is a paradoxical sentence, I believe).

My question is, would he be a case of pathological liar?


Glimmer Twin Fan profile image

Glimmer Twin Fan 2 years ago

Well this was interesting and disturbing. I've known one person that was a pathological liar (probably more) and I quickly got that person out of my life. Scary.


DJ Anderson 2 years ago

I was married to a compulsive liar for 13 years. (I'm a slow learner.)

He lied when it would have been easier to tell the truth.

But, the multiple affairs is what finally caught up with him.

Even he could not keep them all straight.

What a fool I was to believe he could change.

Now, I have a step-grandson who will say some off the wall comment

just to see if he can make someone believe his outrageous tale.

He opens his mouth and 'stupid' falls out. I tell him I don't believe a word he is saying and he will continue on and on. He takes my non-belief as a challenge to try something else to see if I will believe him.

The family has distanced themselves from him.

Paula, you have written a splendid article.

You did touch on something most important and that is how living

with a compulsive liar can break every bond of trust. And, the pain

that follows can be devastating to the surviving mate.

Thank you for writing this article.

DJ.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 2 years ago from England

Hi Paula, interesting stuff, funnily enough when I read the bit about the 'cold' hard stare it reminded me of a guy at work a few years ago. There was nothing 'wrong' with him as far as I could see, and to be honest I never really took a lot of notice of what he was saying, but I couldn't go near him, there was something about his eyes that made me think, no way! great read and something to think about, nell


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 2 years ago from New York

Sounds like you and Maria have this covered pretty well. I feel left out as the only patho liars I have "known" are those I've seen on TV. Guess I've led a sheltered life!

I have known liars who've made up things to make themselves look better or to elicit some sympathy from you but nothing worse than that.

I have to say though I am surprised to find out my mother's saying was actually that of Mark Twain!

Voted useful, awesome, interesting and shared. P.S. Hope this means you're back!!!!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Maria....Thank you so much for your brilliant & welcomed comment. I should think you are literally surrounded by these folks in your career setting.....it has to be nearly impossible to escape!

Yet, another reason on my LONG list of eagerness to actually meet with you one day....face to face.

One of your statements, Maria, took my breath away......because, while I tried not to inject "personal opinion," in my hub, I need to tell you something.......

I am a person who fully embraces an unwavering acceptance/belief, that VERY LITTLE is NOT genetic. I wholeheartedly believe, it is only a matter of time, that the Mental Health/Medical Professionals, in terms of the GODS of this field......catch up to little ole me!! LOL

I fully support your statement, in terms of no amount of therapy for this behavior, having even an ounce of benefit. Sadly, Maria....there's not a chance in hell......quite like pedophilia, wherein, the pathos is WHO they are, not merely WHAT they do. You certainly don't sound cynical to me, GF....you sound like the genius you are! Hugs....


marcoujor profile image

marcoujor 2 years ago from Jeffersonville PA

Dear Paula,

As you can imagine, I have encountered a pathological liar (or ten) in the clinical arena. I also trust my 'goose bump' reactions. Believing the eyes are indeed the windows to our soul, it is morally distressing to sit across from eyes with no soul.

When the liar is a member of your family / inner circle, things can become so personal. The lengths that these individuals go to is amazing, objectively speaking. I wonder now about genetic predisposition as I see identical behaviors in a 'tiny relation of 7' with those of their mother (estranged since the child was a year old).

Not to sound cynical, but all the therapy in the world will not touch this behavior...the therapy seems more important for the loved ones who have been effected in one way or another by the lies.

Excellent work, my friend. Love ya, Maria


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Carol.....I understand well, the occasional sleepless night. The biggest issue with this, is, that it seems to become a snowball effect, where at some point, we find ourselves with days and nights beginning to conflict.

You are so right about the many reasons that encourage people to lie. To the average, honest and down-to-earth person, this entire concept of fantasy-like behavior, will always remain baffling.

Of course, we have all played the game at some point, for various reasons. Most often, it seems that people will find themselves in an uncomfortable situation and experience a type of panic as to to what to say.

It may be a good idea for everyone to practice the phrase, "I don't know," or I'm not qualified to answer that!" This is a fairly reasonable way to avoid the traps and stay above board!

Thanks for the visit, Carol. Always good to see you.


carol7777 profile image

carol7777 2 years ago from Arizona

I just happened to be checking email as I am up and cannot sleep. I haven't written here for months...anyway some people just lie to lie...and such stupid ones. There is someone who I play poker with who continually lies. He said he was born in Palestine..that one really got me. Some people lie to look good, some to get out of trouble and others--so they don't hurt your feelings..(this one I know well)..and not saying these people who got into difficult situations could fall under the pathological description. Lying is dangerous because you do have to have a good memory..And the biggest lie would be to say we have never lied.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

HA! O.J. counts as a complete Psychopath.....that pretty much covers it ALL in the Mental Health Disorders Dept.!!!

I don't care if you were being silly....it's a nice pic!!


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 2 years ago from Orlando, FL

Hmmm. Does OJ count? He's a darn liar too! :)

The photo is one from our family holiday shoot. I was being silly. I'll share more one day! :)


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

SFAM......Love the new pose,sexy mama.......You know I wish you'd have followed the Jodi Arias case with me....but I think it was payback for me and FB! LOLOLO.....Seriously, gf.....you'd have known a better (or do I mean, worse?) LIAR than Casey. Really.....Jodi appears spookier than Casey, as well....Have a relaxing Sunday!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Christin...No blushing allowed.....of course I would mention who & what inspired my hub...

It's no surprise to me that you don't "get it," in terms of this guy's RIDICULOUS behavior......Why would you get it, Christin? You have a healthy, stable mind.

Compulsive lying is one of those things that drives others daffy....actually, because, as you made mention...it is so totally unnecessary. You are correct......What IS wrong with the simple & acceptable truth?

Sorry to say this Christin....but this poor guy has some very serious issues. An intervention by his friends may be a great idea.

Glad you liked the hub.


Sunshine625 profile image

Sunshine625 2 years ago from Orlando, FL

Casey Anthony is probably the closest I've ever come to a pathological liar. I've also come across quite a few via the internet and I got the heck outta dodge! LOL

Personally I have never known one and I hope I never do. Amen to that!


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 2 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York Author

Gracias...bil-bro.....You are NOT the Lone Ranger, buddy. I really don't believe I know a single soul who hasn't dealt with one or more of these sneaky, slippery devils at some point. Not something we soon forget!

Relax tomorrow.....it's Sunday. Don't ask....I have no idea what that means. I'm gullible. I hear Sunday is a "day of rest.".....?


ChristinS profile image

ChristinS 2 years ago from Midwest

Oh my goodness, I'm blushing now lol :) I enjoyed your hub very much and thanks so much for the promo :), was totally not necessary, but I do thank you!

Your hub really does illuminate a lot of it, but my mind is still boggled by the why's. It's interesting that you say they "need the lie" like a drug or fix. I hadn't thought of it that way - like an addiction, so that is very intriguing and I think it makes sense. They get some kind of "high" by thinking they are getting one over on you, like a criminal gets a high out of harming his victims. Very interesting!

I think I was trying to use logic to wrap my mind around how pathological lying makes sense. To give you an example of the worst kind of these. My biological father (NOT The man who raised me) was a pathological liar who told me all sorts of horrendous things. He told me that my half brother was dead at one point and he was very much alive. When I learned that and called him on it - then it was some giant conspiracy about how he had been threatened to never tell me the truth by his stepfather etc etc. Turns out my brother and his family never knew anything about me - when I found them they were flabbergasted I even existed... Those whoppers are the tip of the iceberg and he's also been a criminal in other regards I won't get into here, so your hub has definitely given me some insight into why he does the lying.

As for the other pathological liar, it was someone who is selfish, but not normally deviant. He's the original person I asked the question about. He is just so afraid of others seeing him in a negative way that when he does dumb things he lies about it, then has to come up with more lies to cover those lies. I mean seriously - you spaced out on showing up somewhere you promised to be. Would it be that devastating to simply say "I apologize I flaked on it" , then to come up with a bunch of whopper stories about being a victim of a stalker and being afraid to leave because she would find out and maybe hurt you etc... yeah, it happened. This woman never stalked him, he just didn't want us to be mad he hadn't shown up. Seriously? So somehow making us fear for his safety was preferable to just saying "I'm sorry" ... sigh. I just don't get it.

But, thanks to your awesome hub I at least have a better understanding - even if I never fully "get it". :)


billybuc profile image

billybuc 2 years ago from Olympia, WA

Paula, I had to stop and think about this one. I have a lot of years to cover as I pull up memories, but I know of two for sure that I have crossed paths with. What is amazing is how long it took me to realize just how sick they were. I consider myself a pretty good judge of character but I was completely fooled by these sick pros.

So, they don't have to be a Ted Bundy lusting for blood and a fresh kill. They can cause quite enough damage without ever spilling a drop of blood.

Well done, Sis!

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