Why Do We Always Blame The English? The True History Of Who Invaded Scotland Ireland And Wales.

The battle of Culloden Scots against Scots Public Domain
The battle of Culloden Scots against Scots Public Domain
The Union Jack Flag Public Domain
The Union Jack Flag Public Domain

Timeline For Scotland Did You Know?

During the 5th and 7th Century AD, Scotland was invaded by Gaels, who originated from Ireland. This is where the name Scotland derives from. These Irish were called the Scoti.They settled on the West Coast.

Shortly after, the Anglo Saxons from Europe and the Norse from Scandinavia arrived, and settled in Scotland. It was the Anglo Saxon language called Ynglis, taken from Middle English, or now known as Middle Scottish that is now widely spoken in Scotland. The name Scottis* Now known as Scottish, came from Gaelic, originating in Ireland.

The Kingdom of Scotland was established later in the 9th Century AD.

World history is marked with so many flaws, and sadly the distrust still goes on today. Many people believe that England has always been at the forefront in the invasion of Scotland, Wales and Ireland. And to be fair, England has done their bit over the Centuries invading various parts of the small Island we all call home.

We all know our history and England comes out looking rather, well 'bad sport' as the old saying goes.

But is it true? Have the English always been the main protagonists of war? Is it literally just our little part of the UK that has taken up arms and marched into other parts of the UK pillaging, attacking and just about making everybody's life miserable? Well no. In fact England's part in causing trouble is in fact slightly less than history portrays us. I am not saying that what we did was right or wrong, that's not the purpose of this article. The actual point is that even today England still gets a bad press where invasion is concerned. So I decided to do a bit of digging.

Where we to blame for the invasion of Ireland?

What about Scotland?

Was it just the English who fought and beat the Jacobeans in the fight against bonny Prince Charlie? Read on, you may just be surprised.

Scotland

The Scots believe that the wars between our two Countries over the years have always been a case of us and them. This is completely untrue. Take the battle of Culloden for example. This war was fought by the Scots to bring back 'bonnie' Prince Charlie, so that he would take up the Scottish crown.

What people seem to forget is that actually the English and Scots were both on the same side. The Highlands of Scotland were on Prince Charles Stuarts side, but also there were Irish, English (Manchester Regiment) and French.The Government force were mainly English, but also Scottish Lowlanders, Highlanders and Ulster men, who were Scots and Irish. And strangely, Hessian's from Germany.

The Lowland Scots, who followed the Government forces, hated the idea of bringing over a French schooled Prince to run their Country. And clan set against clan to stop this from happening.

This of course is just one part of Scotlands history. But strangely enough this is the main historical event that causes arguments even today.

James 1st of Scotland and VI of England
James 1st of Scotland and VI of England | Source

Ireland

And what about Ireland?

Well Ireland has the same Historical discrepancies too. We often hear of how the English invaded Ireland. But we seem to have 'lost' the real history behind the facts. For example, did you know that the Norman invasion of Ireland back in 1169 was actually carried out by the Welsh and Norman barons? For anybody who doesn't know who the Normans were, they were French.

The first so called invasion of Ireland by the English, was in fact augmented by King James of Scotland in the 17th Century. The people who invaded Ireland under King James were Scottish with a few English who lived near the Scottish border.

They are still known today as the Ulster Scots. They crossed over to Ireland in their thousands, and virtually took over the whole area. In 1609 the Scots arrived and settled in State Sponsored settlements, which was later named The Plantation of Ulster. In plain English, this actually means that the Irish were turfed off their lands and the Scots stole the lands, houses and wealth of the Gaelic Irish Nobility.

In 1641, The Irish Rebellion, instigated by the Irish Gentry, tried to expel the Scots from their Country. This resulted in severe massacres, and bloody violence. Thousands of people on both sides were killed. Soon after, Scotland sent over another Scottish army called the Covenanters, to protect the Scots from further retaliation. Soon after, Oliver Cromwell and the English invaded Ireland.

Then again in 1689, the Williamite War was started between the Jacobite's (Scottish) who wanted to restore the Catholic King, James II to the throne, and the Protestant Irish who were on the side of William of Orange who was Dutch. He was also the King of England and Ireland. This wasn't so clear cut though. In this instance, the Protestant Scottish in Ireland fought on the side of William of Orange, hoping to defeat the Irish Catholics and their French allies. Once again Irish and Scottish fought each other, but in this instance the Scots and Irish both fought together, and against each other all depending on whether they were Catholics or Protestants. With a few English who had arrived with the Scots. This is still simmering today.

This ended with the Scots English and Irish, Danish and Dutch armies defeating the Jacobite Scottish rebellion. The fear was that the Catholic Scots Jacobite's would once again enforce their hold over the landowners property.

Finally in late 1690, there was another great influx of Scottish settlers who arrived in Ireland. There were tens of thousands Scots, and were escaping from a famine in Scotland.

Romans ageasbowl.com
Romans ageasbowl.com
Normans Public Domain
Normans Public Domain

Read the History of Wales from Amazon

The Invasion of Wales

The history of Wales has been a long line of invasion, settlement and conflict. Once again the English, even today, get the blame for trying to take Wales. But in fact the history is once again flawed. Yes we did invade them. But it wasn't just us. And we weren't the first.

This is the timeline for Welsh history.

In 78 AD, Wales was invaded and conquered by the Romans. They already had a foothold in England, and extended their reach to the West. Within three hundred years, Wales was once again subjected to invasion by the Irish. The Irish settled in Dyfed, South West Wales.

In 500 AD the Saxons swept across Wales, after their conquest of England. And in 516 AD the Welsh retaliated and the Saxons retreated.

In 784 AD the Saxon King of Mercia, built Offa's Dyke, which created a barrier between England and Wales.

In 927 AD, the Welsh, afraid of a Viking attack, asked the English to become their Soveriegn, so becoming under the protection of the English.

1066 the Normans (French) invade England and Wales. Where shortly after, they begin to build Castles which still stand to this day.

By 1284, Wales was incorporated into England, and new treaties and Counties were created.

in 1400, the Welsh began a war against England to claim their independance once again.

Skipping forward to the 16th Century, Henry VIII who was in fact of Welsh descent, passed the Laws In Wales Act. This was to incorporate Wales fully into the Kingdom of England. Contrary to popular believe, the Welsh actually wanted this to happen because it meant new opportunities for the Welsh Gentry. In other words, the Gentry could now become Members of Parliament and Judges at Westminster. More to the point, it was regarded as very advantageous to the Welsh, in which they participated fully.


The Isthmus of Panama
The Isthmus of Panama | Source

Synopsis

As you can see, the Islands of Great Britain are not so clear cut. Throughout history England has always had a bad name. In the 21st Century because of Film and Media, history has been slightly cut and pasted to fit in with Politics and more to the point certain Politicians. Like a game of Chinese whispers, word has spread over the 20th Century and to this day, that England have always been the bad guys. Invading Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

But as you can see. It was never that simple. To be fair to each Country, it seems that the Gentry, Monarchy and Politicians over the Centuries have played a game of chess with our lives. And for some reason today England has been given a bad name and used as a scapegoat for all the bad that happened. The truth about our history is quite different. Just a last word about the British Empire. The English did begin the domination of various parts of the World. But by 1706 Scotland was in financial crisis. This was because of the Darien Scheme.

Darien Scheme.

the Darien Scheme was a disastrous attempt by the Scottish to become a World trading nation. They tried to establish a colony (New Caledonia) on the isthmus of Panama in 1690. Right from the beginning it was beset by poor provisions and planning.

With a weak leadership and devastating disease hitting the colony, along with lack of food and no trade goods changing hands, they were finally beaten by a Spanish invasion in April 1700.

If that wasn't bad enough, the Darien Company had used nearly a quarter of the whole of Scotland's money for the scheme. Landowners and nobles were left completely ruined. The English stepped forward and offered the Act of Union. This entailed England helping out Scotland with their finances and putting them back on their feet. The joining of the two countries, England and Scotland, became known as British. And soon the British Empire took control of many countries around the World. Culminating in the power of Queen Victoria and her need to dominate and conquer.


Copyright Nell Rose

Sources

Wikipedia

unknownscottishhistory.com

Various.

More by this Author


Comments 112 comments

billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

Well there you go; I just learned a great deal. Great hub, very informative and an excellent job of writing.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi billy, thanks for being so quick, and I am glad you liked it, cheers nell


ThoughtSandwiches profile image

ThoughtSandwiches 4 years ago from Reno, Nevada

Nell...

Excellent look at a very convoluted history. I think when you amass an empire as large and rich as the British Empire did, in the 18th and 19th centuries, you open yourself up for smack talk from those around you. Thanks for setting the record straight!

Thomas

PS Up and sharing.


Alastar Packer profile image

Alastar Packer 4 years ago from North Carolina

Alright Nell- saw this and had to jump right on it! You've brought up some excellent distinctions as concerns the real history of all the internecine wars and invasions in Great Britain's history- well done Nell.

No power nation in history comes out with sparkling clean hands when it comes to imperialism, colonialism or acquisitions but England has been admired by me for a very long time in so much by it's people, accomplishments and history.

Thank you Nell and one battle i've been wanting to read about but couldn't find at the library is Culloden so may just purchase it. You know the Packer clan here were Ulster Scots but i forgive you for telling the real and true facts lol.


Pollyannalana profile image

Pollyannalana 4 years ago from US

History only becomes interesting when we are old enough to take a good look at it and not believe everything we hear, huh? I hate war, but I guess it is in the cards. The big men decide it and the little men die. Some very interesting facts. Great hub!

Polly


RealHousewife profile image

RealHousewife 4 years ago from St. Louis, MO

Wow - no I did not know much of this. History is fascinating...and so much of it untrue according to books, etc..or distorted. Up and all that! Cool innit? Lol


AliciaC profile image

AliciaC 4 years ago from British Columbia, Canada

Thanks for the interesting information, Nell. I grew up in the United Kingdom and I didn't know most of the facts that you describe! You hub was both educational and enjoyable.


suzettenaples profile image

suzettenaples 4 years ago from Taos, NM

My goodness! This was like a Great Britain history tutorial. It is hard to keep it all straight - who invaded whom, and when. I remember trying to absorb all this in World History and British Lit classes in high school and college. I still can't remember it all! Thanks for a very interesting and informative article that I will reference.


tammyswallow profile image

tammyswallow 4 years ago from North Carolina

This is a great history lesson. I think the British really do get blamed for all the invasions. Well researched and wonderfully presented!


Larry Fields profile image

Larry Fields 4 years ago from Northern California

Hi Nell,

I used to think that the histories of islands should be simpler than those of continental nations. But my head is still spinning from the lesser-known details that you have presented. Voted up and shared. Now I feel some humor coming on.

There are three main accents in Australia. The one with the largest following is the General Accent. 90% of it is similar to Midwestern English, as spoken in the USA, and the other 10% is like Crocodile Dundee. His Broad Accent is less fashionable.

On the other hand, some Aussies speak with an accent that sounds British to my American ears. This can cause a bit of confusion when I'm passing the time in an airport, eavesdropping on nearby conversations.

For those times when I hear a British-sounding accent, and can't quite place the nationality of the speaker, I've devised a foolproof test. I'd walk up to the bloke and say, "What a charming Irish accent you have!" If I'm still standing 10 seconds later, I'll know that he's an Aussie. I'm not saying that I've actually had the nerve to try this.


uzma shaheen profile image

uzma shaheen 4 years ago from Lahore,Pakistan

very informative hub,british empire ruled over my part of world for centuries,and I always thought of it english,did not know that England and scotland became known as british.excellent hub.thanks for sharing this information.voted up.


ata1515 profile image

ata1515 4 years ago from Buffalo, New York.

Interesting hub. Many people fail to understand the role Scotland played in British history. Voted up!


christopheranton profile image

christopheranton 4 years ago from Gillingham Kent. United Kingdom

Very interesting Nell. You certainly managed to pack a great lot of history into this hub. I wish everyone could be so balanced in their telling of our past.

Good work.


fpherj48 profile image

fpherj48 4 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

Nell Rose....I am thoroughly impressed at your vast knowledge of your history. I'm also humbled since I haven't put as much time and interest into learning so much of the history of my own country!

There is always so much "mis-information" that people seem to simply accept and allow to be passed on through the years.....meaning the truth and the facts get completely lost in translation. Yet, the very nature and importance of History is what Actually happened.

Thank you for this valuable hub. I always apreciate accurate information!!


Jools99 profile image

Jools99 4 years ago from North-East UK

Nell, interesting informative hub about us much maligned English. One thing is clear though, we certainly liked to look on from the wings as countries were invaded and weakened by other nations and then and only then did we put the boot in! I have read about the New Caledonians before - a very interesting tale, so sad it was ill conceived. Just one county away from me is Northumberland - a very interesting county, dotted all over its northern border with old battlegrounds, they're mainly just fields now but are protected under English Heritage and usually have some good information at the site.

Voted up and shared.


sandrabusby profile image

sandrabusby 4 years ago from Tuscaloosa, Alabama, USA

NellRose, what a hubful of information, none of which I was aware of. But, for me, the beauty and variety in your layout is the most stupendous thing about this hub. Thanks.


John MacNab profile image

John MacNab 4 years ago from the banks of the St. Lawrence

Phew! I notice that at least we Scots didn't have anything to do with the invasion of Wales. When I was at school in Scotland the only history we were taught was English history. Very interesting article Nell.


CMHypno profile image

CMHypno 4 years ago from Other Side of the Sun

Interesting hub Nell. We English seem to be embarrassed by our history for some reason these days, when in fact the English were no more or less warlike and aggressive than any other nation. In the case of Scotland, it was not just the English who tried to take Scottish territory, as the Scottish regularly raided over the border. For instance, Berwick-on-Tweed changed hands several times, and Richard the Lionheart even sold Berwick Castle to the Scottish King to raise money for his crusading adventures


Cardisa profile image

Cardisa 4 years ago from Jamaica

I also have to keep reminding my own people that England was not the first to invade Jamaica either because some people who don't know much about our history seem to blame the British for every thing. Thanks Nell, this was an enlightening read. Very interesting as well.


Pamela99 profile image

Pamela99 4 years ago from United States

Nell, I think this is an excellent historical account on England's role in multiple wars. I had to read slowly to keep events straight in my mind also. This was very interesting as I love history and most of my ancestors came from England centuries ago. Great read and of course voted up.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Thanks Thomas, sorry for taking so long to reply, its been one of those days! lol! yes the British Empire took over a lot of the world at the time, but before then as you can see there were many battles between us, I am so glad I live now! lol! thanks for reading, cheers nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Alastar, Your family were the Ulster Scots? Wow! you are living history of what really went on, can I put you on a flag and wave it around and say, here's the truth? haha! thanks as always, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Polly, that's so true. The governments and the crown at that time used the 'Common' people as pawns in their games of chess, and sadly even today people believe what they want to believe, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Haha! very cool! Yes I think books do get it wrong, but more importantly they leave out the truth more than lying. For example Culloden is always stated even now as the English against the Scots, and of course there were Irish, German French and many others on both sides, thanks again, nell


John Sarkis profile image

John Sarkis 4 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

Great article Nell! All I know is that England, France and Germany have produced some of the most brilliant individuals in the last 400 years....

Take care - enjoy your weekend, or is it Monday in England? LOL

John


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Thanks Alicia, The trouble with the true facts is that most of the politicians from all the Uk today get their facts wrong and use it against each other. For example there is one Scottish Minister who is always slamming the English and wants Devolution. That's fine, every country should be able to be lead by who they want and free from another power, but he always makes out that the English are in the wrong. He forgets the real reason why the Scots came under British rule and protection, thanks again, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi suzette, thanks for reading. Yes it was a very complicated situation in all three countries, and that's the point really, its never been about the Us and Them as its made out to be, thanks so much, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi tammy, Yes exactly! isn't it amazing? and the trouble is it is like as I said above, chinese whispers. The kids today actually fight each other or insult one another purely because its between England Scotland Wales and Ireland, if only the schools taught them the truth! thanks as always, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Larry, lol! that's a great way of figuring it out! mind you, thank goodness you said Irish, if you had said English he would definitely have done something! lol! seriously though, that's another misnomer, sorry if that's the wrong word! lol! about the Australians. The don't like the English because we put them on ships and sent them out there to a prison colony, and yet if you speak to an Irishman he will say we did it to them too! which we did to be honest, but also their own Irish government did it as well! ho hum, we poor English cop it every direction! lol! and yes the Australian accent actually sounds like 19th Century Cockney, which comes from London England! funny old world! thanks again, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi uzma, yes that's it exactly! the British are England and Scotland! I do admit that we were wrong in invading India, Queen Victoria was determined to take over many countries. Strangely enough an indian lady was on tv talking about this the other night. She said that for her it was good for her family because it gave her the opportunity to come to England. But yes I hold my hands up for the invasion of india, with the Scots of course! lol! thanks so much for reading, cheers nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Thanks ata, yes England and Scotland are the British. Many people around the world thing British is just England, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Thanks christopher, I think the facts speak better than my usual ranting at the tv when they get it wrong! lol! glad you liked it, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Thanks so much fpher, I took about two weeks doing this hub, in-between the other hubs to have a break! I was surrounded by books, and had about 5 browsers open! lol! phew! its amazing actually how much of this truth is out there on the internet, but of course unless anybody knows that, they just don't see it, or more to the point want to see it!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Jools, yes I must admit we did know when to step in for our advantage! lol! obviously this hub tells the main outline of the stories, there was so much more interweaving of politics involved, that would have taken up about ten hubs! lol! thanks for the vote, cheers nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi sandra, thanks so much. I like to add pictures etc because it brings the hub to life a bit more, especially with history which can be boring if its not set out right. But of course I am talking to the best photographer I have ever seen! lol! your photos are like paintings, and if anybody hasn't read your hubs I am telling them, go take a look! lol! thanks as always, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi John, hahaha! Oh dear, I was wondering what a Scot would say! lol! Really? you were only taught English History? that is appalling! no wonder the Scottish, and rightly so I might add, have their dislike of us English, to be fair I would too! The teachers are supposed to be unbiased and tell the truth, sadly this is why there is always so much trouble, thanks John, much appreciated, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi CMHypno, Thanks for the added info, I never realised that! now you said it, I think I remember seeing a programme about the Borders. There is a big house/castle that stands between England and Scotland and was always being raided by the Scots and English! Wow! thanks as always, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Cardisa, amazing isn't it? its that whisper that I mentioned earlier, so many people believed it was us. Back then in our sorry history of slavery, we were as guilty as the other countries. The one thing that many people don't realise though is that England outlawed slavery, and took to the Sea's to fight the Americans, Portuguese, Dutch, French and Spanish and freeing the people and taking them back to Africa, maybe I will write about that next time, thanks so much as always, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Pamela, it was a bit muddled with the events as so much of the history included the Scots, English and Irish on both sides, I got confused a few times too! lol! I had to read, and re-read each and every account to get it straight, thanks so much, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi John, lol! no its okay, I think its Saturday, or is it? haha! That is true about inventors, we do seem to have produced quite a few, most of them were eccentric and quite barmy but brilliant! lol! thanks for reading, cheers nell


thost profile image

thost 4 years ago from Dublin, Ireland

The English boss these people around because they have the biggest stick. And the boss is never popular because he has the money. Nice Hub, will vote up.


Alastar Packer profile image

Alastar Packer 4 years ago from North Carolina

As Curly of the Three Stooges would say Nell- Coitainly!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi thost, Ireland has always blamed the English, I believe its because they don't like to admit that they have been just as bad in history too, for example the Irish famine was blamed on the English, but the Irish Gentry were to blame too. but thanks for your comment.

Hi Alastar! lol! thanks for coming back, nell


thost profile image

thost 4 years ago from Dublin, Ireland

During the famine, Ireland was governed by the richest country in the world. At least one million people starved to death. People always the blame government for their problems. And our government was in London, England.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi thost, thanks for coming back. I do understand where you are coming from on this, but we have to remember that the Irish Gentry came over to England and became part of parliament too. I suppose you could say they sold out there own people and of course they didn't care as long as they were safe. The famine was a terrible thing, and I wouldn't even try to make excuses for it, but it was caused by blight not a man made thing. But my point in my hub was that over the centuries it wasn't only the English who invaded different parts of the UK. As you can see above, Scotland were the ones who invaded Ireland in the time of James VI of Scotland and first of England. The majority of war and thousands of people who died were because of their invasion. Over time its become a case of blaming the English, and I just wanted to set the historical side of it right. Originally Ireland invaded Scotland and hence the name Scottish originated from Scotti which was Irish. We have all been to blame for the wars, and I being English always felt that it was an injustice to blame only the English when we were all involved and as bad as each other. Thanks again, and I appreciate your input, nell


Sueswan 4 years ago

Hi Nellie

Thank you for the history lesson.

I made my first trip to Scotland last month. My dad's parents were Scottish. My dad was born in England, his older brother was born in Ireland and his younger brother was born in Scotland.

Voted up and interesting.

Take Care :)

Take care :)


Green Lotus profile image

Green Lotus 4 years ago from Atlanta, GA

This was quite a lesson. Growing up in the US, we only skim over the whole story so this was an education.

I have to say the English people would not be who they are today without their, (dare I say) "colorful" history and as you know, I'm a great Anglophile. Who's to complain about a few nasty wars or bicker about who was right and who was wrong? Nationalism will always win out anyway :)


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Sue, Wow! now that's what I call British! lol! thanks for reading, cheers nell

Hi Hilary, that's so true, and we certainly had a colorful history! lol! thanks so much as always, nell


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

Nell, thank you for sorting out and clarifying for us a couple of thousand years of British Isles history in one great hub! I can now toss my copy of Edward Rutherford's "Sarum", which after 3 years I'm still not quite halfway through! ;D


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Jama, lol! I had heard that book was quite heavy going! in fact I was going to read it, read the back, and then put it down! thanks for reading, and I am glad you liked it, cheers nell


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

Nell, it's actually an engrossing book and although I can't imagine reading it straight through, I know a few people who have. There's so much history crammed into it that I've never gotten beyond "nibbling" at it...a chapter here, a few pages there, then maybe two chapters at the next sitting. Rutherford's other volumes of British Isles history are much shorter and much easier to digest, perhaps because he laid the foundation for each of them in "Sarum".


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Jama, actually now that sounds quite interesting. Have you ever read the Diana Gabaldon books? They are about Culloden in Scotland, it's a time travelling story but full of real characters, or at least they seem so real, and the history is full of grit, dirt and just about everything so real that happened, its not a love story but that is in it too, there are about 8 books in all so far, and I love them so much, I can't get enough of them!


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

No, I haven't read Diana Gabaldon's Culloden series, but I LOVE time travel stories, so it's going on the top of my "must read" list. In fact, I was already planning a visit to a local used book shop in search of another author, and that shop is just the sort thet would have the Culloden books, too. Thanks! ;D


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi, Trust me, when you start reading them you won't be able to tear yourself away! lol! there is a site that even has Jamie and Claire the two main characters, music and 'jamies' voice speaking in Scottish, and Diana Gabaldon has a huge fan club. Everybody that reads the books, including me, have fallen in love with Jamie! its the most real set of books that I have ever read, and hopefully they are going to make a film about it, just click on Diana Gabaldons website and you will see them, okay?


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

Already did! I always go to the author's website (if there is one) for a list of books in a series in order. Also went to Amazon to check for used copies...almost ordered "Outlander" right then and there, but thought I'd check my local library first so I could start reading tomorrow morning. Well, it's the darndest thing! They have every volume of the series EXCEPT "Outlander"! Looks like they never had it. Weird... So back to Amazon I went and ordered used copies of book 1, 2 AND 3! All from a seller I've used for years and know to be fast and reliable. I'll check out the rest from the library.

All but one of the reviews at Amazon are as glowing as yours. I can't wait to find out what makes Jamie such a hands-down heart throb (and don't you dare tell me!). I did "look inside" Outlander and read the first 25 pages or so and now I'm definitely hooked! Since I love time travel historical novels, I can't believe I didn't come across this series years ago. Thanks AGAIN! :D


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Jama, that's strange that you couldn't find Outlander, over here it was called cross stitch I believe, but good luck with the books, and no I won't tell you why we all love Jamie! lol!


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

Outlander (Book #1) IS called "Cross Stitch" on your side of the Pond. Apparently people hang onto their copies of Cross Stitch, because even though what's inside is the same, the price of a used copy of CS is much higher than that of a used copy of Outlander!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Jama, how strange! maybe its because there are only a few copies of cross stitch compared to Outlander! its the same book but with a different cover, hope you like them, you won't have time to do any writing when you start reading it! lol!


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

That's what I'm afraid of! That's what happened when a friend recommended a series on the run-up to WWII. Guess I'd better get all of my writing out of the way before I open the first Culloden book, right? lol!


b. Malin profile image

b. Malin 4 years ago

Wow, Girlfriend, you never cease to amaze me...This was History at it's best...Fabulous, simple Fabulous! Voted UP, Interesting, useful and Awesome!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Jama, been over my sons for a couple of days, lovely break, you can use your hand to type and the other one to read at the same time! lol!

Hi b. Malin, glad you liked it, and thanks as always, nell


writer20 profile image

writer20 4 years ago from Southern Nevada

Great reading, it's amazing how we been fooled about our history. I remember going back so far in our history class to welsh corical's(spelling)boat they made of probably reeds.

Voted up and awesome, Joyce.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi writer, I read about the coricals too! lol! seems we had the same history! thanks for reading, cheers nell


Vinaya Ghimire profile image

Vinaya Ghimire 4 years ago from Nepal

I did not study history but history is one of my subject of interest. I have read about Scotland and Ireland but not in details. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Vinaya, thanks for reading, I am glad you liked it, cheers nell


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

Nell, I've been meaning to stop by to tell you, with just a TOUCH of sarcasm, thank you soooooo much for recommending the "Outlander" series. I've barely gotten a thing done since the first 3 books arrived!

Was halfway through "Voyager" when I jumped ahead to Book 5, "The Fiery Cross", after learning Diana G. had included my 5X great-uncle Herman Husband as a minor character. (My 5th gr-gm was HH's next to youngest sister.) This was before I learned Jamie and Claire originally met HH in Book 4, "Drums of Autumn", which branches of my local library didn't have, so I'm waiting for the used copy I found on Amazon to arrive.

As it stands now, what with the "Lord John" books, I foresee having my nose stuck in a Diana G. book until well into next Spring. Maybe even beyond if the second Outlandish Companion comes out any time soon. If I could make one suggestion, it would be that each book had an index!

Oh yes... A clone of Jamie Fraser should be available to ALL female "Outlander" fans. ;D


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Jama, Wow! I know Diana G uses lots of real historical people in the books but how strange is that? and the other connection is the one where she writes about Lord John and the hellfire club. I go there a lot, wrote a hub about it, and its just up the road from me! lol! and the tunnel between Medmenham and Wycombe goes straight past my house! so there you go, we got a connection! Haha! I did think that was funny when you said you haven't got a thing done, I know! just like me I am hooked! probably the best books written ever! and yes I still want Jamie! thanks for letting me know, happy reading! cheers nell


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

Well, then, I'll think of you when I get to Lord John and the hellfire club...if I haven't missed it already... (Or maybe I'll just go read your hub!) I don't recall any tunnel between Medmenham and Wycombe. Perfect example of why each book needs an index! ;D


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi, your popping up all over the place! lol! I think it was in that one, there are so many books, and I know that I have missed some of the lord john ones. I love that character he is so funny sometimes. He makes Jamie so nervous! lol! yes maybe an index would be good, I bought the first book after seeing The Fiery Cross on the shelf, read a page in the shop then went searching for all the others! wish she would hurry up and write the next one! lol!


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

Can we spell A-D-D-I-C-T-E-D??? YES!!!! lol!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hee Hee! sorry! by the time you have finished you will be wanting to go to Scotland to find Jamie! lol!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Have you gone to Diana G site? there is an amazing cd of music for a stage play about them, but they are not actually going to do the stage play yet but just the music. If you listen to it, there is a bit where 'Jamie' says, blood of my blood, bone of my bone' it makes go all goose bumps! haha!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Have you gone to Diana G site? there is an amazing cd of music for a stage play about them, but they are not actually going to do the stage play yet but just the music. If you listen to it, there is a bit where 'Jamie' says, blood of my blood, bone of my bone' it makes go all goose bumps! haha!


JamaGenee profile image

JamaGenee 4 years ago from Central Oklahoma

I've been to DG's site but haven't listened to the cd. YET. I'll have to go over and hear what "Jamie" sounds like. Thanks!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Jama, go listen to it! lol! Seriously I love the way they did the cd, I still haven't bought it yet but I will do, cheers nell


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 4 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

The first invasion of Ireland by a party originating in England was led by Henry II after an original 'invitation' was extended by the king of Leinster in the 12th Century to William de Clare. Henry didn't want 'Strongbow' getting beyond himself (know your place began here) and the only English pontiff, Adrian IV (Nicholas Breakspear) gave his consent to 'cleansing' the Irish. We have to take the can on that one, sorry, even though it was an Angevin king and Welsh-based Norman knights who carried out the invasion. An enlightenment, thanks for getting this one out in the open. We've been taking everyone's flak for long enough. Voted 'Up' and interesting


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi alan, thanks for reading, I know we were to blame a lot of the time, especially around the time of Longshanks etc, but I was just getting a bit fed up with the blame being placed on us in England for things we didn't do. I noticed on tv the other day, they were talking about Culloden and never once did they mention all the different countries involved, it was the English versus the Scots, how is anybody supposed to know the truth when the tv never tells it? glad you liked it, and thanks for the added info, cheers nell


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK

There are always two sides to a story.

I would like to counterbalance some of the statements made.

Quote ‘…The Scots believe that the wars between our two Countries over the years have always been a case of us and them…’

In my opinion that is a sweeping generalisation, such a statement cannot be substantiated.

Quote ‘…Take the battle of Culloden for example...’

It is not a hidden secret that the British Army, which included Scots, fought the Jacobites at Culloden. Many Lowland Scots for political and religious reasons did not want the return of a catholic king to the throne.

Some of the Highland clans were reluctant to support Charlie, but because they had sworn an oath of allegiance to King James VII/II, they could not go back on their word.

One of the most shameful acts in ‘British’ history was the slaughter that took place after the battle of Culloden, followed by the Highland clearances. Highland Scots joined the British Army after the Jacobite Rebellion and contributed to the expansion of the Empire. Sadly many were unaware that due to the clearances they didn’t have a home to return to; their families were homeless.

Quote ‘…This war was fought by the Scots to bring back 'bonnie' Prince Charlie, so that he would take up the Scottish crown…’

Bonnie Prince Charlie did not come to take up the Scottish crown; he wanted his father James VII/II (hence the name Jacobite) restored to the throne in London. James VII/II could have ruled Scotland but the wealth and power was in London; he wanted his old throne back.

Quote ‘…The Lowland Scots, who followed the Government forces, hated the idea of bringing over a French schooled Prince to run their Country…’

‘…bringing over a French schooled Prince to run their Country…’ was not the issue, as I stated earlier Charlie came to win back the London throne for his father. Many Lowland Scots were protestant and didn’t want a catholic King, preferring instead to stick with the Union.

Quote ‘…The first so called invasion of Ireland by the English, was in fact augmented by King James of Scotland in the 17th Century…’

Ireland was the ‘back door’ to England and in the event of invasion from France or Spain it was strategically important to have control there. King James VI of Scotland became King James 1 of England in 1603, it was after he took the English throne that the Plantation of Ulster began in 1606. This was not the first invasion of Ireland; England had involvement in Ireland since the 12th century.

Quote ‘…The English stepped forward and offered the Act of Union. This entailed England helping out Scotland with their finances and putting them back on their feet…’

It is true the Darien Expedition was a disaster for Scotland, but for political reasons involving Spain, it was in England’s interest that it failed, and help was not there when it was most needed. This was not an act of benevolence.

Having said all that, Scotland has benefited from the Union and prospered in many ways, particularly during the period known as the Enlightenment, and to this day there is strength in unity.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Thanks searchinsany for clearing up those points, and the added information.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 4 years ago from UK

Thank you for graciously publishing my comment; I wouldn't have expected anything less from an 'English Rose'.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Lol! Thanks search, everybody is entitled to their opinion, otherwise we wouldn't know the truth about things, thanks for coming back, nell


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 4 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

We didn't so much 'invade' India as prevent the French from colonising the land. The mess they left in their African colonies bears testimony to the state India would have been when they left. Had the French colonised India, like French Indo-China the Vichy government would have allowed the Japanese in from Burma with impunity. As in the Africa the French would have played tribal leaders off against each other, and left little to show for their 'stay'.

As it turned out they didn't and we did colonise India, with the result we left a self-governable nation. Is it our fault they set about one another in a religious bloodbath?


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi alan, you said what I have been thinking for a long time! My opinion has always been that when we Brits invade so to speak we build up the country that we invade instead of ruining it. Many countries that have had their 'independance' have gone completely back to ruins again. there are so many countries that wish they had stayed, but sadly these days we are made out to be the bad guys! thanks again, nell


DoloresHerriot profile image

DoloresHerriot 4 years ago from United Kingdom

Hi Nell,

As an Irish person living in the UK, I just had to respond to your hub. I enjoyed reading it but I really have to disagree on your last post where you say

"My opinion has always been that when we Brits invade so to speak we build up the country that we invade instead of ruining it."

I think you are being too general with that comment. Granted, I am unfamiliar with the history of Britain's other colonies but I know Ireland. I don't think you build up a country by driving the population off the land, to be replaced by new settlers or implementing laws that deny the majority of the population basic rights based on their religious faith. I'm not saying Britain ruined Ireland but we were hardly built up either.

I look forward to hearing reading more of your hubs!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Sorry Dolores, I never explained myself, I was answering the comment above. I actually meant places in the third world that needed our help and appreciated it afterwards, then their government took over and now they are living in poverty again, as for Ireland my point was really that it was the Scots that invaded Ireland and caused most of the trouble back then not the English, but history seems to have pointed the finger at us without stating the truth, thanks for reading, nell


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 4 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

The Third World didn't actually need us as such, nor would they have invited us in. They did accept the 'improvements' we left behind (like the railways and a more organised government system), but we went there to stop others outflanking us. Ireland was something else. Like Scotland and Wales, Ireland consisted of several kingdoms that came under our influence. The Vikings were first to exploit disunity in Ireland, followed by our Norman/Angevin rulers who became more Irish than the Irish once they'd settled down,. They were followed by the Tudors' governor the Earl of Essex, who lost control, and the Stuarts who tried to use Ireland as a springboard to invade England. This precipitated Cromwell's involvement at Drogheda (against the Royalist garrison who refused to surrender and were slaughtered to a man after the civilians were allowed out). The Potato Famine was worsened as much by Irish landlords as English ignorance of the situation, causing the mass migrations to America. Because their aristocracy were English-educated, we were 'tarred by the same brush', but the Irish overlooked that their compatriots in England - the rank and file - were no better off than they were.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Thanks alan, for clearing that up. It was so complicated over the years, and not so straight forward as history or tv to be precise have told. I actually watched a programme about Culloden the other night and it was the us and them situation again, I was sitting there saying, yes but what about the highlanders? or the lowlanders? how are children supposed to learn the truth if they don't teach it? as I always say, History is three parts truth and one part fiction, and it seems that the fiction is overtaking, thanks again, nell


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 4 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

Charlie reached Derby in 1745, and wanted to go on. An English 'agent' who had gained the Pretender's confidence put about that the Duke of Cumberland was marching on them. Truth was he was nowhere near. Nevertheless Charlie was out-voted in wishing to advance on London. There were supporters for the Stuart cause in the capital, and George II was ready to up sticks and scarper back to Hanover. But like Hitler nearly two centuries later he 'missed the bus' and had to go into hiding after Culloden.

He wasn't the first to come a cropper. At the time Edward III was in France King David of Scotland thought he'd deliver the 'killer' blow and invade England. He reached Neville's Cross near Durham and was routed by an English army inferior in numbers but not in skill or discipline. King David's Highlanders were routed by archers in their headlong charge, more were trapped in a small valley and decimated by more arrows. King David himself was captured hiding under a bridge and held at the Tower for a decade or so whilst his 'subjects' made up their minds to ransom him. He fared better than a predecessor, Malcolm, who came south in the 12th Century and was stopped near Northallerton at the Battle of the Standard. Malcolm III came south as far as the Tees in 1070 when William I was back in Normandy 'sorting out' his unruly neighbours. They gave up after Flodden in Henry VIII's time, though. 'Plain tuckered-out!'


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Yes definitely tuckered out! lol! that was fascinating, so much that I didn't know. Thanks for the added info, really interesting, cheers nell


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 4 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

At the time of Edward (later canonised as 'the Confessor') Gruffyd ap Llewellyn teamed up with the outlawed Earl Aelfgar, son of Earl Leofric of Mercia (the one whose wife rode naked through Coventry). Aelfgar was later reinstated and then succeeded his father, but Gruffyd wasn't finished. He invaded Mercia in 1062 and Aelfgar did nothing to stop him. When Aelfgar died late in 1062 Earl Harold invaded Gwynedd but Gruffyd fled. Harold invaded again - by sea - along with his brother Earl Tostig who went overland from Northumbria (which then stretched to the Irish Sea). They ravaged north Wales and the Welsh handed over Gruffyd's head. His widow Aeldgifu - daughter of Aelfgar - later married Harold after his coronation in a 'dynastic' marriage. Gruffyd's sons Bleddyn and Rhiwallon helped Eadric 'the wild' of Hereford against earls William and Roger. Dublin Danes came with Harold's sons Godwin, Eadmund and Magnus to raid North Devon and Somerset but were defeated by an English 'fyrd' force led by the Breton count Brien. The last Viking army in Britain led by Magnus 'Barelegs' (a Norse king who chose to wear a kilt) along with a Welsh insurgent force clashed with and defeated the Normans on Anglesey.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi alan, your a wealth of information. This is amazing, I never knew any of this, thanks! I need to get reading my history again! lol!


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 4 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

Any time. Take a look at the Hub-pages on my site about the Godwinsons and Harold in particular. It's all come up from research for the RAVENFEAST series (cf) and the NORTHWORLD SAGA SITE (cf). I have a research file on the characters involved if you want it. Quite a lot about the Normans and their allies between 1065 and 1072 as well as the British ones(England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales). See also the VIKING Hubpages series.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi alan, I will be over again to read your hubs, they are fascinating, I have learned so much from them, thanks so much, nell


molometer profile image

molometer 4 years ago

Hello Nell,

What a terrific hub. It puts it all into focus. We Brits just love to fight. 'each other'...Not really!

It is much more complex as you point out here. I suppose we got good at world domination because of our combined history of invasion and subjugation.

I still think the weather has a lot to do with it.

Nearly all the countries we took over during the Empire days had lovely warm climates. : )

Great work Nell this must have taken ages to put together.

All the votes except funny. Sharing this one.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Michael, lol! yes its the weather, why couldn't we have conquered somewhere hot and stayed there? thanks so much for reading, and for the votes, nell


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Hi Michael, lol! yes its the weather, why couldn't we have conquered somewhere hot and stayed there? thanks so much for reading, and for the votes, nell


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 4 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

They also had hot spicy food, witness the queue at the Chinese or Indian takeaway every Friday night... Even in Cardiff, Belfast or Glasgow... Deep-fried Mars Bars apart!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Deep fird mars bars, now I want one! lol! seriously, I tried one once, it was revolting! haha! thanks alan, nell


Peter Geekie profile image

Peter Geekie 4 years ago from Sittingbourne

Dear Nell Rose

Thank you for a well written, researched and informative article.

Kind regards Peter


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 4 years ago from England Author

Thanks Peter, I am really glad you liked it, nell


craymarsh 3 years ago

Over-generalizations and simplifications blur history here.

Being largely of commoner Welsh & Danish ancestry, I first of all object to seeing Normans defined simply as "French." Not true. Those who became Normans began as a Danish/Norwegian band of Vikings, including many whole families, allowed/requested to 'settle' in Normandy by the King of the Franks. In less than 100 years, hardly enough time to lose all Scandinavian blood & identities, William the Conqueror expanded their realm into England. They spoke a distinct, adaptation of the French language, called Norman-French

Bringing Celts & Anglo-Saxons invasions into the mix reaches back further in history than most written records go, further than any Welsh, Scottish, & Irish people can dream of tracing. These pre-date most (though not all) of their definitions of who they are. Those ethnic & national identities coalesced during, and as a result of, those Us v Them years with the "English" after the Conquest.

In other places, you use the participation of a handful of wealthy Welsh or Scottish nobles in the depredations of the English/Norman conquerors to suggest that the "Welsh people," or "Scottish people" were actually partners in handing over ancestral land to those relative newcomers/foreigners. "The people" called those actions "sell outs" and those people traitors.

Overall, "The English" get the blame for the upheavals of history since theirs is the era (post-1066, for the most part) for which there is the most written history, albeit their versions, their documents. Additionally, the most recent history, recent enough for stories of violence & abuse to be included in the present-day family lore of Scots, Irish, & Welsh, is clearly England (London/King/Parliament/English Aristocracy) vs those countries - from clearances & evictions & legislation re famine relief, poor laws, land use, water rights, to ridicule & stereotyping in media "comedy" and commentary.

Tossing a brief acknowledgment that some English acts weren't nice into an effort otherwise focused on melding very specific, hard events into a more pleasing, "can't we all just get along" blend overlaid with sugary icing helps create a short, concise, yet misleading paper.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 3 years ago from England Author

Thank you craymarsh for your opinion. I would like to add two points to this The first being this was not written off the top of my head so to speak. The research was diligently done from Historians and other published material. So what is written here is exactly right. and I take no credit for it. The second point is that even though the English throughout the last thousand years have caused wars, which I totally admit, we can't forget that in recent years there has been more done to us than us doing to them. Take the Irish ira, we were bombed over and over again and it still goes on. I would like to remind you that we only went to northern irland because we were asked to help with security. I and most other english people are fed up to the back teeth for being blamed for things that happened back centuries ago, yet we are told to ignore what happens today against us, I was just trying to balance the truth. As I said, my research was taken from real historic sources, as for 'stereotyping in the media, comedy etc' that's the funniest thing I have ever heard. The irish insult us as much as they can, the welsh constantly insult us, as seen on a recent tv programme in welsh, that was translated. and believe me they don't like many others either, and the only one that keeps to themselves are the scots. but thanks for reading, and I appreciate your point of view. On a last note, I would like to say that when the english tell jokes about the irish, which we can no longer do by the way, its out of respect because we believe they have a sense of humour, bombing us however is not funny. .


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 3 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

Up to the time of Eadward 'the Confessor' there had been no claims by any 'English' king beyond the bounds of 'England'. England didn't exist until the time of Aethelstan. It had been a dream of his grandfather Aelfred's to expand the influence of Wessex, once the threat of Danish invasion on Wessex had subsided. Guthrum had taken much of the land east of Watling Street, and Aelfred's influence could only reach into western Mercia (the Aenglish dominion after partition, the rest being the Danelaw). Aelfred's son Eadward succeeded in gaining the submission of the by now Christianised Danes in the eastern half (of Mercia, as was) and aimed for southern Northumbria, the Kingdom of York under Sigtrygg [also known as Sihtric] 'Caech' (Squinty) who had been booted out of Dublin and set up shop in Jorvik. Eadward would have, but Aethelstan did eject the Danish king of Jorvik/York and took the submission of the kings and princes of the Scots, Welsh and Erse after the Battle of Brunanburh (no-one seems to know exactly where this took place but the big money is on the mouth of the Mersey or Ribble).

Still, up until England Ltd. was taken over by Normandy Inc. we had no aims to 'colonise' beyond what had become England (minus Cumbria, which remained under the Scots' crown). When Harold and Tostig took an army by sea and overland in 1063/4 to defeat Gruffyd ap Llewellyn in Gwynedd it was done to curtail Gruffyd's raiding in Mercia and western Northumbria, not to colonise the territory. Once the Welsh nobles handed Gruffyd's severed head to Harold he left. End of story.

William I had some sort of agenda, which involved pulling Anjou, Maine, Brittany, Wales and Scotland into his domain, and - domestic squabbles between his grandchildren apart - the baton was taken up again by Henry II with his invasion of Ireland, as I mentioned above some months back.

Next up the line was Edward 'Longshanks', thinking he was entitled to rule Scotland. Another grasping branch on the 'Norman' tree, by now known as 'Plantagenet'. Edward III took up the baton again with his French aims. There was no stopping this lot! The ball is in the Norman court.

Victoria had no hand in the machinations of her politicians, lords and generals. They were a law unto themselves, she merely stood on the sidelines, to 'be amused' - or not.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 3 years ago from England Author

HI alan, so in other words it was the French Normans who started to invade different countries, but us English never would have done it, you are a font of information! lol! is that the right saying? can't remember, but fascinating stuff, thanks!


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 3 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

They weren't 'French' Normans, nor even Frankish (that's where 'French' comes from) just Normans descended from their Scandinavian ancestry and who took on the identity of their feudal overlords. [Is this confusing? Take a look at one of my Hub-pages in the VIKING series about when Charles 'the Simple' in the 10th Century handed over the Seine territory to 'Ganger' Hrolf ('Rollo') to stop other Vikings raiding upriver].

Hrolf was West Norse (Norwegian in today's version), but couldn't talk his fellows into joining his colonisation debut. The Danes were interested, being more territorially minded than their northern neighbours. Until the early 11th Century these Danes still sent their sons to the motherland for weapons training, until Duke William (the Conqueror's grandfather) decided to move the goalposts and 'go Frankish'. Henri I was William's overlord, followed by his son Philippe, who was the conqueror's overlord when he came to England.

That's when they began to dress like their Frankish overlords and learned to fight on horseback etc. 'Poachers turned policemen' is a phrase that comes to mind.

We might have got round to it eventually (like over-running the Welsh), but the 'Vikings' would have run rings around us by then.


thost profile image

thost 3 years ago from Dublin, Ireland

Well Nell if you really want to know why we always blame the English, then I will tell you. Now this is very important information so I will only say it once. We always blame the English, because it's fun! lol.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 3 years ago from England Author

Thanks alan, I think I get it now!

Hi thost, yep that's why we blame the irish too! haha!


kenny 3 years ago

Don't forget , "History is written by the victors" I notice you conveniently skipped over Oliver Cromwell' s massacre of the Irish people , The Black and Tans were another one of your inventions , If this helps you to forget about shameful past so be it . as an Irish man I will never forgive or forget.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 3 years ago from England Author

Kenny, Oliver Cromwell killed thousands of his own people too! as for history, it was King James 6 of Scotland who invaded Ireland with the Scottish people, not the English! amazing how the irish always conveniently forget this! i.e. Ulster Scots...!! The black and tans went over to help the irish constabulary. They were british, i.e. English and Scots! England is fed up with history being warped to suit the needs of others. The irish have been fighting each other for centuries, we are all to blame, its about time we put it in the past. Oh and this hub? I got my sources from the top british and irish historians, not my info, I am just reporting it.

And don't forget, the British won't forget the atrocities that the irish have done either back in the 70s 80s and 90s too.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 3 years ago from England Author

Its amazing how a country can keep going on about something that happened centuries ago, and yet forget about the bad things they did to us over the last 50 years or so. I think people forget that the horrible things that happened at 9/11 is the same we brits have had to endure from ireland bad guys too, they are just the same.


Wull 2 years ago

Very biased towards England. Scotland was invaded by The English for centuries, Edward 1,11,111 Richard 11, HenryV111 and Cromwell. William of Orange made sure The Darien scheme would fail as he wished to protect England's trading monopoly.

Edward 1 wanted to wipe Scotland from the map.


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 2 years ago from England Author

But of course Ireland was invaded by James first of England/Sixth of Scotland, and most of the Scots went to live in Ireland, hardly any English at all.

Submit a Comment
New comments are not being accepted on this article at this time.
Click to Rate This Article
working