Obviously there is this movement that if you believe in God, any kind of God, you have been brainwashed.
Fine, this maybe so but I gotta say; brainwashing goes both ways.
What are you washing the brainwashed with? More brainwashing. More and more of the same, there is no end to people saying, you have been tricked, you have been decieved, what is a proper education, you have no real education, there is no God, there is a God, God says you have to do this, God says you do not have to do this. Science says this is right, someone else says this is wrong.
Today, as I am feeling a bit saucy, I can't believe anyone. Everyone it seems, says my way is right, or his way is right, or this is the truth or history has been changed, or they want to kill you or you are the devil or that is not God or this is the true God.
Good grief! Then another will say, chose your own way, then another says yes, chose your own way but if you believe this...then you are being brainwashed and you have to snap out of that, then another comes along and says...well so and so said this...it is relentless.
Who is right? Who could be right? Why is it always the majority sets the standard for what is right, making it the others who are wrong?
I think the world has gone crazy all together. There is no right or wrong. The more we move along in life, the more apperant it is that you can't trust anyone. Sometimes "reality" gets so sureal that I am not even sure if we even exists.
Here's the thing Sandy, you can be sure about ... Brainwahsed people do not have dirty minds
p.s. I'm fairly certain I exist - I think therefore I am ... at least I think I think
Sorry Sandra, but you are completely wrong about absolutely everything. Send me a cheque for $50 and I will tell you the right way to think.
I don't know about you Sandra but I ain't paying $50 dollars to get brainwashed (now wait a minute do I have a brain to begin with)
Don't know - I dispensed with mine a long time ago, as it caused too many problems. Now, I let my cat make all of the big decisions and he does a fine job. He charges $50 per hour and all the fish he can eat!
So now who do I talk to negotiate this deal you or your cat?
The Cat, of course. Sadly, you cannot speak Greek Cat, so I will have to translate. An extra $50 and a crate of whisky (for Holy Anointing purposes) will do.
All Hail the Mighty Suleyman
lol, yes I think I will have to trust you cat! Though we are going to have to duke it out for the 50$, if he wants my check then kitty is really going to have to persuade me with kitty licks and purrfect love.
HA - Don't listen to him ... his advice is only worth $50 send me a check for $50,000 and not only will I tell you the right way to think, I'll think for you!
I believe you have just about captured it. All this intrigue is what gets me up in the morning, wondering what the trend of the day will be.
I don't let it stress me out though, as human on the top of the food chain I know I can eat anything that stresses me out to much. I find thinking about digesting the source of my problems really liberates my soul.
It's worth more than that! They also tellyou that they will teach yu how to read their holy books, because apparently you don't know how to read. What do they teach in school then?!
.....and so a new cult begins.
Send money NOW!
Yeah, the dog thing too. What else can we trust. lol. same with birds...oh I know, what about dolphins, has that been done yet?
Haven't you heard of the HitchHiker's Guide to the galaxy. It is above human intelligence and worth considering
My neighbour has a mule. I shall throw myself at its feet and seek divine wisdom.
You can all worship my Neighbour's Ass.
I'll get my coat
ROTFLMAO!!!! that was more purrfect a joke than any jackass could have made.
Now, I will also throw myself at the feet of the devine ass and seek wisdome. I will go grab my sunglasses.
ooo and Egytian life was persecuted by the very person they saved from oblivian--Moses! No thanks for him being in the preisthood! Send in the Cats for they were idolized by the culture! I love cats, so more power to them!!
What was that movie that Jeff Goldblum was in and he was a cat and the other guy was a dog from outerspace----"Earth Girls Are Easy"??? Hilarious!!
Now, since I know where are you coming from, I may be able to answer what I think you wanted to ask
There is God on one side. It is a pure speculation that you can't observe or prove or disprove.
There is a knowledge of laws of Nature on the other side, that you can observe or prove or disprove, and you can reproduce their manifestations, given the circumstances are identical. Like you can observe that when you release any object it will fall down. It is the law of nature, it is observable and it could be reliably reproduced.
It does not support idea of God, it does not oppose it - it just is. You drop the ball, it falls down. Period. When you learned this, you were not brainwashed into it - umm, at least not in a sense you are using this word here - you learned this by observation. It might have been your mother who told you that objects fall down, but you checked it yourself many times, and invariably they did. Nobody can brainwash you into believing a ball flies up. This is a real education
Now, not everything is that straight forward. Some causes have delayed consequences, some things correlate without causing one another, etc. It all may get very complex, and here comes the potential for brainwashing, not always intentional. That's pretty much Global Warming hysteria.
Relatively simple example from my own life. In Russia it is believed that cold drinks and food are the cause of getting cold. When I came to America I was shocked with everybody drinking iced drinks and eating ice-cream year round no matter what. But heck, Americans don't really get sick more often than Russians! So, it is not the law of nature, and I was brainwashed by the whole country into believing in it.
The funny thing is it is still considered a law of nature in Russia. If a Russian drinks regular American dose of iced drink, s/he gets a soar throat, guaranteed It is a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy - we believe this is true, and don't train our bodies to handle cold drinks - hence the reaction. However it is not the law of nature, because Russians biologically are not different from Americans, so the whole country brainwashed itself
Now, coming to those "inventions" like water4gas. They are breaking fundamental laws of nature, which are even more prominent than "everything falls down" - conservation laws. Therefore they are not inventions, they are scam. It is like somebody telling you that he knows how to drop the ball so it flies up. Only people who did not receive real education and can't tell the law of nature from speculation can be brainwashed into believing into such a crap.
Well, I obviously set aside a lot of stuff that should have been included here be it anything close to scientific writing. Please don't call me on this those who know - I was just trying to give the main idea, without overcomplicating it
I really think that education and religion are just social institutions that form humans into a pattern of norms with similar values and beliefs so that society can run smoothly... at least from a functionalists perspective.
They both have their cons where the support unhealthy human behaviors such as class constriction and class consciousness but I really think society would crumble with out both. While yeah, they are rather annoying somethings and cause a lot of opinion clashes, you can always just choose to be aware of these things and live your life freely as you see fit.
I see this "Brainwashing" as an important way to keep society working like a well oiled machine. Instead of considering it brainwashing, i see it as socialization for the survival of society. If everyone was off on their own tangent constantly real life would be a god awful mess. It would be like the internet because it would be pretty much a free for all. If it wasn't religion it would just be another human-invented institution to socialize people and then we would be complaining about that instead.
I personally have no religion, never have since the day I was born and I turned out fine BUT since religion has been around a lot longer than I have, it has already shaped society and I'm running by religion's rules without knowing it.
I think you tend to under complicate somethings and over complicate others. Yes, a ball falls down, but that is the human perspective (brainwashing). When really the ball is going towards the center of the Earth where it's gravity is the strongest. In which case it is not really falling, it is being pulled and if it wasn't for the ground being in the way at some point it would be prepelled. -real education.
Water for Gas
Water can be a gas, liquid or a solid. Steam is water in gas form and when confined into a concentrated area, it creates a combustion. How you can't see this is beyond me.
But your right, God just is. But you still believe that when a person says God, they must be talking about Jesus or something because what a person believes on their own accord, just happens to be similar to that idea of God. Which, Misha is a very brainwashed idea also.
Did you ever think that maybe in Russia the idea that people get sick drinking cold drinks doesn't have anything to do with training the body to not drink cold drinks thus guaranteeing that person will get a soar throat, or...that you drink hot drinks in Russia because it kills the bacteria in the water which makes you sick and has nothing to do with training your body to not drink cold things?
But please join us in bowing to to Sufri's neighbors ass.
ps. but yes falling is to down as rising is to up.
I said steam that steam confined to a concentrated area will in other words explode. Not the steam, but it has to find a way out. that is law. right? pressure steam pressure.
Just another one of those things that bugs me, you have to be so specific about everything.
OK, I think we are done with water4gas on another thread, glad it was just a misunderstanding
Now, about up and down and gravity and such - I specifically stated that I oversimplified the things to get the main point across, so stop nitpicking on me All your additions are more or less valid, and I can add a few more complications and details - but this was not the point.
Equating human perspective to brainwashing does not get my vote though. For me those are different things. Human perspective is no doubt relative, but it is based on reality and is tested by reality and passed the reality test. Brainwashed perspective does not correspond to reality, and as soon as you expose this thing to the unbiased test, you see the brainwashing
And your theory about bacteria does not hold a reality test - Russians get even worse sore throat if they drink cold right after hot. If your theory worked, they should not get any sore throat at all in this case
LOL Sandy you lost me completely
I probably blew my brains to the end in my previous post, so it's time to go to bad. I'll check Sufi's ass tomorrow, or was it his neighbor's pussy?
It should be MIND Wash! :
Of course, those who don't have a brain, can have steam go through and "wash" out the cavity. Like you said, who is right, and who is wrong. Who decides that a brain/mind needs to be washed (re-programmed)?
Afternoon aka-dj - Hope that the Australian summer is treating you well.
This all reminds me of a story my granddad told me.
During the war, after being a Bevan Boy, my grandfather became a Military Policeman. In Lancashire, there were many prison camps for the German POW's, and he had the task of guarding them. He told me that so many of the captured men were complete Nazi's, and had been brainwashed and indoctrinated with Nazi ideals since childhood. Most had been forced to join the Hitler Youth at a young age.
Once this barrier was broken through, and the men realised that there was another way of life, they could start to rebuild their minds. Most of them turned out to be very pleasant and kind young men, and many stayed in the area after the war, marrying local girls. That was an example of true brainwashing, and was yet another Nazi crime against humanity. My Grandfather never blamed the Germans for the war, realising that a regime set upon controlling thoughts can rip the soul out of a nation.
Maybe Misha has some similar tales, if they do not bring back too many painful memories.
I have similar thoughts about Islamic terrorism. So many of the recruits are very young and horribly poor. They have less than nothing and they look at us and see how we live and how much we waste--of course it's going to make them angry. So if someone is there feeding them a religious line that gives them a purpose, they will cling to that. What do they have to lose? Also, I've thought many times that we were successfully attacked on September 11. No one ever says it because you will be lynched if you say it, but look at the state of our economy, look how much money we poured down the toilet over the last 7 years 'fighting terrorism'. It bankrupted us. That's what they wanted.
I think, give these young men something better to hope for. Then they will stop. And also, stop being so greedly and ruthless ourselves. That would help too.
Hello! Yes the summer is gr8. Fishing, well, not soo good (yet?)
The thing with brainwashing is, that once the person has thier mind filled with "stuff", they perceive the world through eyes aligned with that view. IE, believer vs atheist. They see the same world through completely different paradigms. For that to change, much needs to be removed, and replaced with new concepts.
It's no wonder that the (event) experience of being "born again" is (in my mind, and that of many others) considered a miracle! Similar things could be said of others who have had drammatic, lifechaging events happen to them (as you have related here).
It's a real pradigm shift that is required, to go from what you thought was right and true, to what you now hold as being right and true. They may in fact be totally opposed to each other.
Oh, definitely Sufi, my whole life, and there is nothing what I would call painful memories though
Basically I rebuilt my worldview completely since I realized I was brainwashed. And I am still in the process of rebuilding. When I find something I believe in without grounds (and trust me, it still happens pretty often), I start challenging it. If I decide I held the challenge, I leave it in my worldview, but know it is not a believe, but something tested. If it doesn't, I start working on getting rid of it...
It was pretty hard in the beginning, when I had to dismantle the whole body of my views that contradicted one another and reality, and for several years I did not have any moral yardstick to measure myself and others, but then things started to snap into place, and it appeared I don;t really need any except for my own likes and dislikes. And to tell you the truth, life without a yardstick is much more enjoyable
But it would be a mistake to think that brainwashing is limited to totalitarian regimes. So called democracies use it quite a bit, too, and I see a lot of examples of brainwashed opinions here on HP
Glad that you are enjoying life.
You are right, of course. We are all brainwashed - it is just the degree that is different. One thing I have noticed about the education system here is that Greek kids are taught how to think for themselves, and encouraged to debate. They study philosophy when they are at primary school. Sweden was the same, and you were encouraged to discuss things with teachers, rather than just accept their word.
In the UK, this does not happen - teachers tell you things as fact, and you are not supposed to question them. Don't know if the US is the same, but I suspect that this is why the British are becoming a more docile people.
In the United States, more often than not a child who shows interest in the coursework is either sent for ADHD testing and Ritalin, or belittled so much by classmates that they eventually fall into a sort of stupor. I'm disgusted by the fact that children who should be spending extra time with their teachers are instead being passed into the next grade so that they don't "become socially stunted."
We already are, speaking in the general sense of Americans today.. we don't care if you don't know how to read, we're concerned about your fragile little ego.
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