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HubPages and Common Core seem to have a common goal. What do you think

  1. Ericdierker profile image80
    Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago

    Here is the address and first words from this Fox News article:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/05/te … d-lessons-

    Some of the biggest critics of new lesson plans aligned with the national Common Core
    standards are the people charged with teaching them.

    A growing number of teachers say the national standards, adopted by some 45 states, have
    combined with pressure to "teach to the test" to take all individuality out of their
    craft. Some teachers told FoxNews.com the new education approach is turning their
    lessons into little more than data-dispensing sessions, and they fear their jobs are
    being marginalized.

    My wife hails from a country that is communist she was raised on this type of model. She likes it. Yes I hate it. She is a "straight A" type student. I brag that I graduated in the 10% of my class -- bottom that is.

    I am checking with educators that work or worked in China. I think there are lessons to be learned here.
    Yes I will write a hub incorporating this discussion.  Thank you for any input.

    1. cfin profile image77
      cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      All I know is that something needs to be done with the US educational system. The PISA index released yesterday places the US well outside of the top 20 while the top 10 is dominated by Asian countries. The index is extremely impartial and ranks Math, Reading and Science.

      1. Ericdierker profile image80
        Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        cfn, on a further note, these non-performing US "graduates" want more money for doing a job they are suited to do because of their lack of Math., Reading and Science skills.
        That is why I kept the tie in with HP. Our lack of education does not end with our last day of school, in fact that is when the pain starts.
        Sometimes I feel real weird teaching my three year old to read so early, it seems cruel --- but guess what he loves it. And guess what again? We are primarily and Asian American household.
        Interesting isn't it.

        1. cfin profile image77
          cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, my two year old daughter loves books, letters, shapes etc.... and I couldn't be happier. She speaks as well as a 7 year old. I guess we have to steer our kids right and if they are not good a one subject, maybe steer them elsewhere.

          Most of those claiming that they deserve more are usually the victim of bad parenting too, and have made bad life choices. Everyone is good at something, and I think the educational system in the US needs to be more honed toward teaching kids what they are good at rather than a one size fits all approach.

          I was proud to see Ireland finish 9th in reading. It's quite good, but not fantastic either. The US will improve, but sending my kids to school in the US, for me, means that I just need to be a more hands on parent.

          1. Ericdierker profile image80
            Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That is so awesome positive and, may I say, American. We have to fix our system and putting ready, able and willing children, into that system is the best way to fix it.
            May I suggest we replace "no child left behind" with "no parent left behind"?

            1. cfin profile image77
              cfinposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Never forget who helped build America. Irish people. We have good ideas and are passionate about our kids and parenting. I worry that too many Americans are letting the TV raise their kids.

              1. Ericdierker profile image80
                Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                About 3 days a week my son and I watch some shows together. Like "super readers". And then he gets to watch about twenty minutes of a silly superhero children type cartoon. And I feel guilty.
                But today he saw a picture of a bull and could not quite get it that it was not a cow. So he read the word b u l l and sounded it out. So for a three year old he is not stunted --- but still.
                My biological father was Black Irish American Immigrant so I am with you!

  2. ChristinS profile image92
    ChristinSposted 2 years ago

    I'm not sure what HP has to do with it, but as far as the schooling today, I agree that kids are taught to pass the tests and not to think critically or creatively in most classes.

    My oldest son is in advanced classes and he finds those refreshing because they do get to do some things outside of the normal teach for test type of curriculum.  He's part of a math/science gifted program, but only 20 kids are selected out of hundreds in his school.  These 20 kids are blessed with amazing projects and things that really stoke their imaginations and compel them to work to solve complex problems.  In the other classes - not so much.  In fact, he's bored to tears in his regular classes.

    I believe the bulk of this nonsense started under "No Child Left Behind" and unfortunately, I think it's leaving many children behind.  The standardized tests are robotic in nature, they don't challenge the gifted kids enough and they are too challenging for other students.  Everyone is treated the same - and it doesn't make for good education. 

    We should go back to giving students what they need to excel according to their unique capabilities. 

    It's like that Einstein quote that is going around  ‘Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.’  Our system doesn't work - education cannot be a one size fits all.

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      The HP part is to show the relation between standardization in Enterprise and standardization in Education. It kind of seems that HP creates a strong argument that standardization in school is really helpful in real world ---- even in a creative industry.
      It appears to me that folks more comfortable and competent at standardization actually have it "easier" in our increasingly standardized world. Or is that a chicken egg deal.
      (love the fish in the tree concept)

      1. psycheskinner profile image80
        psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I do not  see having some basic standards as "standardization".  But then I am not a libertarian type so it does not bother me that any set of rules has a few arbitrary and counterproductive elements.  They need to be kept to a minimum, but are somewhat inevitable.

        1. Ericdierker profile image80
          Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Do I read this correctly? Arbitrary and counterproductive elements do not bother you in our education system?
          I kind of see a point here. I think we all learn a lesson having to just accept things sometimes. But I would hope that is not a default position.

    2. April Garner profile image88
      April Garnerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Basic standards are one thing, but what "No Child Left Behind" did to our school systems was basically leave every child behind.  There's got to be some middle ground between holding every child to the exact same standards - ones that are, as far as curriculum these days is concerned, a mile wide and an inch deep - and a free for all.  We try to cram all these facts in children's head, but they are rarely allowed or encouraged to study anything in depth, where they could really use their critical thinking and problem solving skills.

    3. Goodpal profile image88
      Goodpalposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Schooling means creating robots to perform in test and jobs. It has ceased to be a process of developing children into wholly developed wise adults. The core question is: what is the purpose of schools today?

  3. psycheskinner profile image80
    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago

    Core standards are meant to be very basic things that we check all kids can do.  Then teachers can build whatever they want onto that.

    I see the need for it because int he US school are funded locally, so those in poor neighborhoods are badly funded and sometimes suck. 

    The testing allows central managers to detect when a school is not managing to teach even basic skills.  Then they can check whether it is a failing school, or just a bunch of kids so screwed up by their circumstances that they can't learn even when the curriculum is being well-delivered.

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you. This certainly is the rational basis for implementation. I think these teachers are saying that for some reason "very basic things" are outweighing creativity.
      My three older children were taught with a strict CA standardization program. And I wish I were half as smart as them. So I am very interested.

  4. relache profile image87
    relacheposted 2 years ago

    HubPages isn't in the education business. 

    Too bad you're forced to write here, and there are no other options in an Internet that now spans 1.37 billion pages.

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      relache thank you for that personal attack. I needed it. The notion regarding HP is not complicated. It is moving more and more toward standardization.

      Did I say something negative about HP?

    2. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 2 years ago in reply to this


  5. suzettenaples profile image90
    suzettenaplesposted 2 years ago

    Eric, You pose a very good topic for discussion.  First of all a national core curriculum is not for I doctrinating our students.  It is not communism I the traditional sense although I can understand why people could see it that way.  I have lived in three foreign countries and I can tell you all other nations in the world bot free and totalitarian have national school standards.  The US is the only country that runs its schools on the local level.  It our students are to truly compete on a global level our country does need national standards just as the rest of the world does.  We are no longer an agrarian society and our schools have been set up for that model since 1776.  We must change our educational system so our students can compete on all levels and situations.  Therefore, I am for a core curriculum.  To my understanding (I am retired) the schools are told what they need to teach but not HOW they should teach it. That is left up to each school system and teacher.

    That all said I totally agree with what Christy has written.  So I won't repeat it other than to say with No Child Left Behind which was instituted under Pres George Bush and Republicans, teaching to the test began then.  That is not anything new.  It is up the each school system whether they CHOOSE to teach to the test or not.

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Great stuff here but I must call you out ---- liar, there is no way you are old enough to be retired hihihi
      Your points ring clear and seem very valid. I am also seeing some Brown vs. Board of education stuff here.
      It also seems that the biggest problem here is in fact lack of appropriate application of the "norms" and Nat'l standards. I have a feeling it is more about local administrations trying to ease their job.

  6. ChristinS profile image92
    ChristinSposted 2 years ago

    I certainly agree there needs to be standards for what students need to know.  My problem comes in where funding is hijacked basically unless all kids pass the standardized testing.  That's why the classes have become like they have.  All they do is teach to pass the tests to keep the funding etc. There is no incentive for creative teaching etc. 

    We had standard requirements when I was in school also, but my classes (some of them anyway) were more free in how those items were taught.  We were taught to think critically - not just regurgitate factoids. 

    The kids coming out of high school now can't compete.  They can answer basic fact questions - but they have no idea "why" things work the way they do.  Sure they can spew a million facts, but knowing facts and having genuine understanding of subjects is a completely different thing. 

    No Child Left Behind did, in fact, leave every child behind, because we are not producing very many truly critical thinkers.. sad but true. 

    The college classes I took a few years ago with kids just out of high school - oh my word.  I took an economics class and the only ones answering critical thinking type questions were those of us who were older "non-traditional" students.  The young kids didn't want to participate - they wanted to know what the answers would be so they could pass the test.  They could care less about understanding the material.  It's sad.

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      This is really cool Christin. In my home one adult is in school at all times. It is just how we are wired. One family may buy an RV and in mine we pay for another diploma. And it constantly amazes my wife and I at the lack of interest in learning we see.
      So do you think we could integrate critical analysis and logic into a common core idea?

      1. ChristinS profile image92
        ChristinSposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Like other posters since have mentioned, there is a reason we don't produce a lot of well-rounded critical thinkers.  I remember a bit by George Carlin when he talked about how the govt wants us just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, but too stupid to know what is being done to us and how we are being exploited basically - that's a nutshell version of it with much cleaner language lol - but his point was the purposeful dumbing down of society, and I agree that is what is at work here. 

        People are lazy and apathetic more than ever before and that's just how the powers that be like it.  If people are too smart, or are encouraged to think too critically, or are not distracted enough by shiny things, they might revolt wink.

        1. Ericdierker profile image80
          Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Very nicely put. I think many would be afraid to say what you just did. Good for you.

    2. Jodah profile image87
      Jodahposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I th0ght the Einstein quote mentioned by ChristinS was an appropriate one.  ‘Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.’ I read it to my wife, who said,"I don't get it. Fish don't believe anything, whether they are smart or stupid, and wouldn't have even seen a tree." Now I'm scratching my head.

      1. AMAZING THINKER profile image61
        AMAZING THINKERposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Look deep into nature and you will understand everything better - Albert Einstein

  7. rebekahELLE profile image91
    rebekahELLEposted 2 years ago

    Standards are standards, they are the framework from which to build.  Common Core is not the curricula, it does not include methodology or details of how to achieve the standards.  Even within a specific curriculum, teachers need to learn what works, which takes time.  Most teachers don't have a lot of time and are pressured to achieve results which often seem impossible.  Look at the last decade with No Child Left Behind.  That's when teaching to the test developed.  We desperately need higher standards in our educational system.  With so many distractions, students often come to school ill prepared for the rigors of learning.  It's not taken seriously.  Students don't even know how to think.  It starts at home and builds through early childhood.  Working with the CC standards will take time for teachers/administrators to modify curricula and track which strategies work best.

    I'm not sure what you believe is the common goal of HP and CC?
    Have you read the standards?  I work in early childhood and I have to know the standards for Kindergarten.  We start very early and lesson plans are easier when we have a framework from which to focus.  Where some of the 'issues' lie are grandiose expectations or lack of expectations from parents/teachers/administrators/society.
    Working together makes it easier for all involved. The role of education does not start and end with a system.

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Really cool focus here, thank you.
      Where would I find a reasonable publication of the standards or a reasonable summary.
      I am blown away by the great "standards" that are now readily available for us to prepare our son for "pre-kindergarten" next fall. They are exciting and easy to understand.

  8. rebekahELLE profile image91
    rebekahELLEposted 2 years ago

    The easiest place to learn about the standards in on the Common Core website.  Pre-K is more like what Kindergarten/First grade used to be years ago, depending on what kind of school he attends.  We use Smart boards in the classroom, have literacy/math small group rotations, science, art, interest centers, outside time.  We do project and individual work with the students. Best advice I can give is to feed your child healthy, nutritious foods and make sure he gets enough sleep at night. Read real books and keep tv to a minimum, especially before bedtime.  It makes a world of difference in how well your child will learn.

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for that info.
      And guess what? I am a drill sergeant on the food and sleep. That is so critical. We already see that failure in the developmental effects of his preschool classmates.
      I think this is real key and here is why. I mention the communist Chinese and Vietnamese models. And here is what I think is the kicker: It has nothing to do with their communism it has to do with a culture more inclined to nurture, feed and hold learning in high regard for infants- kindergarten children.
      This is something to ponder on.

  9. Richawriter profile image98
    Richawriterposted 2 years ago

    The vendetta continues, I see. No matter how you try to sugarcoat it by placing emphasis on an article, this is yet another attack on hubpages.

    If I were you I'd just get over it and myself as history has proven time and time again, that rallying against and whinging about the status quo (a brilliant one I must admit) rarely tends to get the ball rolling in terms of 'good' change.

    In this case, all I see is that hubpages, once so swamped with low quality information and creators of it to boot, is moving on and finding the best standards with which to ensure its future.

    You are being left behind, Eric because of your unwillingness to adapt and I'm afraid rather than prove that Hubpages is becoming a lifeless hub of information dispensing, it shows that you are simply throwing your toys out of the pram because you can't get your own way.

    I suggest two things:

    1. Grow up
    2. Learn to adapt yourself to change because at this rate, the ONLY thing you are achieving is to inform people that you are a troublemaker. Speak your mind by all means (you obviously think that redeems you somehow) but when you are unable to just let go, it signals obsession has taken root - so pries your fingers away from solid edge of HP and just LET GO.

    Here's a quote I just thought of. I've edited it somewhat to suit your situation.

    "Those who can, share, those who cannot, whine incessantly."

    Give it a rest now, this broken record has grated on ears for far too long!

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Peace and love be upon you richwriter.  I hope you take notice of how the enterprise concept is important to our education system.

      1. Richawriter profile image98
        Richawriterposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I'm aware that our education system sucks, yes.

        This is why my son will be home schooled once he comes of age.

        I'm also aware that unless you are in a position to do something about the problem at hand - whatever it may be - sitting for hours typing opinions, speculations and theories and putting the world to rights, then spending more hours reading through even more of the same written by different minds - is rather pointless.

        The governments, American and most others quite clearly - and have since the system was formed thousands of years ago - want their herds to graze peacefully whilst they concoct yet more ways to keep us distracted, be it through new tech, mindless t.v. or endless fear-mongering news to keep us shriveled up and afraid.

        They'd be quite happy to see us discussing these problems here.

        The place to be to let them know your feelings - is the street outside their institutions. Peaceful demonstrations will work wonders if there are enough people involved. THEN this education system designed to dumb down the masses may very well be replaced and the puppets running it removed.

        Peace and love to you too Sir.

        1. Ericdierker profile image80
          Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          You have powerful thoughts here. I would only suggest that it will be places like this that get people "in the street".

          Do you think that outsourcing may be the capitalist way of protesting the schools. It is kind of like saying "we do not like your product so we will buy in China"
          More of that Peace and Love back at you.

          1. Richawriter profile image98
            Richawriterposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            That may very well be a good way to stick it to em!!

            Anyway, quite appropriately, I saw this image on Facebook today and thought I would add it to your discussion here as it seems to fit.


            Okay, I'm done now.

            Cheers and enjoy your discussion.

  10. LeanMan profile image81
    LeanManposted 2 years ago

    Its all to do with statistics!

    The problem is that 50% of all of the pupils are below average!

    So they try to bring those 50% up to the average while neglecting the 50% that are above average. The result is that the 50% above average drop closer to the average (dropping the average also) and achieve less.....


    There are still 50% below the average!!

    Does that make sense!

    For those of you the wrong side of the median line this was not meant as a serious answer, however for those of you in the upper quartile and in advanced classes it may actually provide you with something to think about. Between the average and the upper quartile however you are in fact in an area that is completely neglected and left to fend for yourself....

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      This is cool insight. I only got into college and graduate school like an affirmative action for lower lower quartile people. Kind of like putting a handicapped mouse in with others in a maze.
      I think this notion of yours deserves interest.
      My mom just shook her head and said "How in the heck did you get a doctorate/".  And I asked all three of my adult children "why in the heck do you want to go to college?"
      Many of these countries with higher scores, only allow the best into even middle school, think of that.

  11. Mark Lees profile image86
    Mark Leesposted 2 years ago

    Your wife comes from a communist country? I find that unlikely because there are, and never have been, any actual communist countries. There have been countries which label themselves communist but that is not the same.

    Communism, when practiced properly, certainly does not favour indoctrinated education systems- the fauz-communism that Stalin, Mao etc... practice does this as a means of thought control. The western world doesn't need to do this as the media companies are allied with the political powers to spread the rhetoric of the ruling class.

    If education is creating drones ask yourself the question why? The answer is fairly obvious- because the PTB don't want critical thinking but they need to be seen to be improving standards.

    1. Ericdierker profile image80
      Ericdierkerposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Your point is well taken. As a Marxist romantic and a lover of early Christian communities I know you are right on the communist concept.
      And your last paragraph goes directly to why I used my favorite scapegoat HP as the droning of our lives. There is validity to your slant. thank you.

  12. tirelesstraveler profile image86
    tirelesstravelerposted 2 years ago

    Common core teaches 12+25 = a number in the range between 35-40.
    We need to look schooling the 15 year olds had, who schooled our students, in the international competition. Had it only been Asian students, I would have thought one thing, but eastern European counties better in Science and Math. No Child left behind was indeed a major downward spiral for our educational system.  But it started before then.

  13. suzettenaples profile image90
    suzettenaplesposted 2 years ago

    Eric, watch it with the name calling.  This is not a good way to make friends.  I am not a liar --  I am a retired teacher although I may not look old enough, I am.  I have taught for 30 years and in Ohio, at 30 years, a teacher could retire with full benefits the year I retired.  I understand that has changed now and I don't know what the requirements are for retirement in the state of Ohio today. 

    Most schools require their teachers to ''teach to the test."  We had to when I taught English.  I didn't like doing that, but that is what the administration wanted and yes, some of it is mandated by federal and state funding.  Schools don't want to lose this funding so they "teach to the test" so they have the appropriate test scores to retain the funding.  That is why our nation needs to change the educational system in this country.  I don't agree with it, but as teachers, we must teach how the administration says we should.

    When I taught Spanish, that was different.  Our Spanish departments had standardized tests we made up ourselves because Spanish was not state mandated to be tested when I was teaching.  We made our own standardized tests so that our Spanish program would be seamless.  When students left Spanish I for Spanish II, they would all have the same set of skills.  And when students went from Spanish II to Spanish III they would have the same set of skills etc. through the program.  But, we were able to creatively teach the language any way we wanted to as long as our students left the course being able to speak, read, write, and listen in Spanish.  We were fortunate that the state was not testing Spanish at the end of the year.  I don't know what the state is doing now since I have retired. 

    Our educational system in the U.S. needs to be completely revamped.  There is nothing wrong with testing as an assessment, but there should be other types of assessments that the student does too.  Speaking, debating, projects, portfolios, performances - there are many ways to assess a student besides just testing, but some of these ways are more subjective.  I think the states want to keep the testing as objective as possible.

    I think we have to look at each student and determine if they are well-rounded educationally.  And, that can't just be done by taking a test.