Which one would you classify as and why do you think so?
I am definitely an individual. I march to the beat of my own drummer, even if he's off beat sometimes. I tend to take my own advice even if I ask others' opinions. I never was a follower because I was never fond of crowds....lol.
I think individuality can be maintained while being a follower of
any religion or ideology.But your individualism may encounter
clash with the the fanatic or non scientific ideology of your
religion or what you are following.
What are your thoughts when you have different belief from the teachings of your religion?
Individual at the same time a follower as many have preached on god before me. The prophets are my idols and they have done such a superb job in spreading god knowledge and I want to match them.
Individual, of course. I prefer to 'follow' my own instincts as I believe that instincts remains untainted and, therefore, dependable if we dedicate all our actions to our creator. Complicated ?
I am definitely an individual. I am uncomfortable around a lot of people who are too much the same. I don't understand cliques.
Indiviual, cause I'm the first to answer. and I refuse to go with way of the world. I'll stand up for my beliefs no matter how unpopular they seem to the masses! I'm ME!
For me I think that it really depends on the situation. I have made a lot of unusual decisions and have pointed my husband in the direction of those decisions but have ultimately followed him.
An example is that I don't wish to have any sons we may have in the future circumcized, but he has made the decision to do so, therefore we will. It's one of the few areas where we disagree, and he would give in if he didn't feel just as convicted as I do!
I am not the type of person who joins in with a crowd though. I am always asking "why?"
I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I sometimes chose to follow, and sometimes not, based on my individual beliefs.
I think that you can be both. I mean if you only follow that is a different matter. But I am very much an individual and being that I know my strong and weak points. So when met with my strengths I will tend to lead but if there is something that I am not as strong in I might have to follow to learn so that I can lead the next time. I however do not follow blindly. So I feel that I am always an individual but at times I follow.
Hello Everyone, Thanks for the answers. I am not looking for a "right" answer. I just want to hear everyones perspective.
For the most part I am an individual because I like what I like (and vice versa) and do not let others influence me by telling me what I should like/do. But there are those times when something is popular and I enjoy jumping on that wagon with everyone else. Good examples of that would be joining networking sites like Facebook or twitter.
Quite an interesting concept..
...I consider myself a double agent of individuality.
I Am An Individual! (who just followed lxxy over to this post.) :-)
Im an individual! I want to make my own way. But i will be a follower sometimes in the bedroom. lol
I am an individual, never been a follower. I learn from others, but try to maintain my own counsel.
If someone likes to follow their shadow, does that make them an individual or a follower???
I was always shy and fearful, but still wouldn't follow the crowd. I would only go along with those I thought had good ideas and leave behind those who bored me. In the end I became too different to follow. Who would I follow and why? I needed to follow my own song. But weather or not there are those who wish to follow me, I cannot say.I warn them however, they could end up in another state, the state of disorder and chaos and as we know out of chaos comes great things.
It's a false choice. There is no reason a 'follower' is not still an individual. ALL of us are followers in some ways and in some times. It doesn't necessarily make one any the less an individual.
Not true in my belief. If a kid see's his friends beating up an innocent homeless man, the kid has the choice to "follow" his friends in the beating or "individualize" and walk away. You think if the kid "followed" in the beating, he would be a true individual? If so, mine and your logic does not agree.
marine, in that example, one could also argue that he walked away because he was following the rules of morality he was raised with.
Walking away would be his "individual" choice rather than "following" the actions of his friends.
He also has choice to go against teachings of morality due to the influence of his friends. An "individual" free will.
As has been said, he could be "following" the instructions he was given by parents, teachers, society, about what to do in such circumstances.
True. I see you didn't respond to the Marine debate. So the point is that it's good to follow to an "extent", as long as you are following positive influences. Then again, everyone has a different view of logic and positive influences.
Is the question still can a marine be an individual? I refuse to debate this anymore with anyone that was not in the marines that thinks they know what freedoms are sacrificed. A lot of marines do not even know what individual freedoms are being sacrificed while they are in. If a marine does not sacrifice his individuality, he is not a marine.
AGAIN, that is not what several former Marines have just recently told me. Who am I to believe?
Believe as you wish. I am just saying that you must sacrifice individuality to be a marine. That is part of the sacrifice, sacrifice of individual freedom. I never got a chance to debate when superiors busted in our rooms at 5:00 in the morning searching our rooms throwing our items in the floor. Is this democracy? I don't remember having a choice of my room being searched. This was 3 years after boot camp.
Perhaps you miss my point. When you were in the Marines you followed orders, right? Did you cease to be an individual? My friends who are former Marines would disagree (I just asked to be sure).
There is no human being who is not a follower at times. Does that mean there are no individuals?
Yes, your individuality must cease to be a true marine. There is no democracy in the marines. If you are given an order, you do not debate your "individual" opinion. I believe a follower must follow to before understanding individualism. In saying this, I believe some follow never individualizing.
Well, I know a few Marines who disagree with you. In fact, I've just now been told that a Marine who cannot think for himself cannot adapt to circumstances and is effectivley useless. Maybe you were in a different Marines. I was never in the service so I can't personally speak to that, but perhaps you are defining things in too narrow a way.
Lol your friends must have been in the "reserves". I did 4 years in artillery. That is a combat job. We train to shoot big guns to blow people up. If your friends said they were individuals in the marines and had absolute freedom. they were not true marines. If a superior in the marines gives you an order, you do not debate the order. This is lack of discipline. You do not "question" a superior if they were to give you an order to shoot a child in battle. The marines goal is to operate as a team, not as individuals. You and your friends are the one looking at the narrow picture.
Marine, I served in the Army, yes you have to operate as a team and not as individuals, but you are wrong about following orders in this case. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ.
In the heat of battle, these are choices the soldier/marine has to determine as an idividual. You have to determine if the order is lawful or unlawful. If it is to commit a crime, you can choose to disobey the order, if it is going to put you or your squad in harms way then that is to be expected and no you cannot disobey that order.
"I was only following orders" will not hold up with UCMJ or anywere else in any of the word's militaries. It sure didn't hold of for the Nazi's that worked the death camps.
So if you are ordered to shoot a child, you think this would be unlawful in every case? How about if the child was suspected of being strapped with bombs. Do you think the military would want you to follow orders or debate. If you debated, the strapped child could blow you up. You only have a moments notice. They teach to follow orders, not debate individual opinion.
Don't try and twist it up, I was pointing out the difference between a lawfull order and an unlawfull order. They teach to follow lawfull orders, read articles 90-92 of the UCMJ(I think those are the articles) and they punish you severely for following unlawfull orders.
The situation you point out is why you train. You train every day just in case you are put in a position like that and you instictively know what to do. If you only have moments then you have to react and not wait on orders. In that scenario, you are acting as an individual.
You know that working as a team you come to trust every single person on that team...with your life. So, you trust that your superiors are going to only give you lawfull orders and in only the rarest most heinous circumstances will unlawfull orders be made. It is up to the individual soldier/marine to know the UCMJ and the Constitution which you swear to defend when you enlist.
I'm not twisting anything up. I was simply asking a different question with a different circumstance. Maybe this is why they send the marines in first, they follow orders then figure out whether the orders are right after the fight. Not during. If you are told an order, you do not think back to your UCMJ handbook, if told to fire, you fire without hesitation.
I think I answered your question when I stated I was pointin out the diffence between a lawfull order and an unlawfull order.
You don't have to look back to the UCMJ handbook to know right from wrong but if you do, not only do you not deserve to be in the military defending the constitution, you don't deserve to be a citizen. (not you personaly, the person who doesn't know right from wrong)
The military does not teach you to follow, it's something you have to do. The military teaches you to lead. I can't believe you did not walk away from the Corp without the ability to lead. I know different.
Lol, excellent. I did learn to lead. This is why I got out after my 4 years. A individual can only follow for so long. The marines teaches you to "follow" superior orders. I don't know what the army taught you. Would you please tell me what your job was in the army? Just out of curiosity
I was a combat medic. I was trained to be a leader, to make decisions on my own and not wait for orders because lives depended on me being able to make those decisions.
Please explain how you follow individualism?
I don't see how this is so hard for anyone to see. The military teaches an individual to follow making the individual a follower. The military teaches the recruit to act on demand/instinct/orders, not on debate. Is this a foreign language or am I missing something?
Does following orders, within a limited domain, automatically make someone not an individual?
In my belief, yes, to an extent. If I were still in the marines and told to do an order I did not agree with, I would be punished for my individual logic of why I refused the order. If you want to be in the marines and be successful, you must "follow" all orders, even those which you do not agree with in your "individual" logic.
But this could apply by extension to all employees. Imagine someone working at McDonalds who is told to serve a customer a meal that he believes is not in the customer's best health interests? Or how about an architect whose artistic principles are compromised by the tastes of his client? Where do we draw the line? Is it always wrong to accept employment when you know you will be asked to do things that may not always feel right to you?
Excellent questions. I definately believe there has to be moderation. However, I believe absolute individuality would be absolute freedom. Self-employeed working for oneself. I believe you can moderate individuality and following to get to an individual goal. One more thing, the marines and mcdonalds hardly compares. lol
But I believe Aya is right. Some--especially officers--in the military (ie, my bf) knew that it was something of a 'game' and even an easy one because it was so clear cut--as opposed to working within a corporation where things are more political and may not even be unilateral.
The bf, incidentally, is a self-employed architect, and still has to 'play the game,' of pleasing clients. All of that, of course, is not the same as following when an order clearly goes against an individual conscience of determining right from wrong. Given the age of military recruits, etc., and training, all of this get very, very murky.
I must say, I do see a slightly different POV in him than from someone who would never have chosen the military in the first place and instead went for a liberal arts education.
To say an individual has absolute individual freedom in the marines is absolute henpecking.
What would you like me to be??? (Haha just kidding -sorry, I try to be funny)
I never said that an individual must not first follow before learning to lead.
I would like to mention that officers are trained more as leaders than followers. The officer training is much different than the regular enlisted training. The officers follow officers, lead enlisted. The enlisted follow officers.
Yeah, true, but he went in as enlisted...a poor (but, of course smart,!) kid from Texas just wanting to get away and see the world. He was chosen as an officer candidate.
Hey--he got out of it for the same reasons. Officers have to take orders, too...
It's murky, this whole concept of leading/following, especially in regards, I'd say, to responsibility for war crimes. He'd say that many young soldiers were and DO only follow orders and should not be held accountable for doing so.
I would agree to that too in certain cirmumstances, but like I stated earlier, the "I was only following orders" defense has never held up in court, military or civilian.
A huge problem is the age of the new recruits. I was only 18 when I joined many many moons ago. But I was rare. I've had a problem with authority since day one, according to my mom when the doc slapped my ass when I was born, I pissed on him in spite...lol
My only dispute was with following unlawful orders. Being a medic gave me more liberty to make decisions on my own, but as you point out Marine, other positions didn't have that liberty. And being a fresh 1st term enlistee, it would be hard for many to find the cojones to disobey an unlawfull order. Ask a seasoned soldier to follow blindly and I doubt you would get the same results.
I believe there to be a huge amout of difference in individual freedom in the military compared to civilian life. In the military, I could be out sleeping in the dirt for 15-20 days. In civilian life, I have a bed, air conditioning, heat. I consider these freedoms.
I am maluable to be sure, but most comfortable and confident in leadership roles.
I am often just given authority, it's kind of fun!
Individual always have been always will be, can change it just am.
Obviously, like everyone else I think of myself as unique ... I don't know anyone like me. But I don't feel the need to stand out all the time. If something is important to me then I speak out, if I don't want to do something I wont. But sometimes when I don't hav any strong opinion I'm happy just to follow someone else. Noone can claim to be completely individual in that everyone is influenced by the outside world.
What if one rejects the negative influences/teachings of the outside world?
Well yes, that would make you very individual but is it ACTUALLY possible? You wouldn't get very far in life. And, I can guarentee noone on this forum is one of those people.
I am both! I am very much an individual but at times I follow the advice and guidance and opinions of others but then again, who does not do this? No one is totally individual because we are all a reflection of the thoughts and opinions of others and what others have taught us or inspired us to be!
I see myself as an individual. I am a senior and highschool has really made me grow as a person. I was a follower 9-10 grade did the whole goth thing and got my heart broken and my dreams crushed by too many people. I went through a bad spell of not liking how i look and it really took a toll on me. In all I have become stronger. I use to care only what others had to say about me and always followed my untrustworthy friends. This year I have surrounded myself with people who make me feel good about myself and I have a great boyfriend. I am following myself only this year and making changes good for me.
I am an individual unless I think I should be a follower, then I will be a follower
I am an individual by nature but will follow for compromise or teamship
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