Humankind is at the "brink" of self destruction.
To 'survive" as a species it must "adapt."
Adaptation is Natures prime law for imminent success.
Will our genetic programming for predation overrule "reason" and perpetrate an interminable slide into extinction?
Pls backup your response.
I don't buy you premise. Where is the evidence to support you assertion the humankind is on the brink of self destruction?
The population of the world is expanding and continues to expand. Wealth and prosperity is also spreading, just take a look at China and India! I believe mankind will continue to grow and to prosper in spite of what we sometimes do to each other.
I love to ask these kinds of questions because it causes people who respond to think and offer thoughts that range from silly to sage.
There is a religious movement at hand that desires to end the reign of "infidels" with a process called "jihad."
They may gain the ability to begin that process.
There has, never before in time, been a way to reduce all life on this planet to that of the stone age. There is now!
There are those, who exist, who are dedicated to reducing human life to their way of life.
I can't visualize a method to bring man together to work in concert for the benefit of all men to create viability for our species...can you?
This is true there is evil in the world and some of those evil people wield some power. But, the majority of folks, including Muslims, are reasonable, sensible people that wish only to live their lives peacefully in the way they desire. Most people want all of the same things, love, and the simple comforts, food, clothing, shelter, rewarding work, good health and family.
We shouldn't let the evil on the fringes blind us to the reality that we are all the same, even if we believe differently, and I think most people will rise up and prevent evil from having their way.
Remember, we did survive the cold war, WWI and WWII, the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima etc. It won't be easy to wipe the species off the globe.
Granted it will be fundamental radicals, who are in the minority, that will be responsible for future cataclysmic nuclear events.
The bombs you mentioned used in WW2 are not to be considered. They are in no way comparable to contemporary nuclear bombs.
The Russians in the "cold war" days were "rational."
Fanatical religious radicals are not "rational."
I cannot see a change or religious fanaticism being engendered in the near future.
Can you? If you do, pls offer an explanation...thanks
Take Iran for example, a fundamentally radical Muslim runs the country, but the people are anything but and they are protesting regularly. I believe change will come to Iran and it will be more moderate. Pakistan and India each have WMDs and they don't seem to be ready to use them to settle their differences. With power comes responsibility, and it seems once a nation acquires nuclear arms then tend to be careful about who has access to them.
Granted some extreme radical could get their hands on a weapon and perhaps even launch one and if the target was quick to react without first assessing the situation the source of the launch might be obliterated, however that would likely be the end of it don't you think?
Depends upon what they used.
If ya remember "Chernobyl" incident, the "fallout" contaminated wide areas of E Europe and Scandinavia..most heavily in Belarus and the Ukraine. RAdioactivity was later found in Sweden. As many as 8000 people were killed as a result of just this accident.
If "radicals" or whomever uses the "bomb" uses a dirty bomb/s, who knows what the trade winds would do with it.
You know that if 1 flies, world reaction will be immediate and again, who knows if that might not be the beginning of the end?
Food for thought.
If this is true then you should bear in mind that no President gets into power in the US without the Christian lobby.
Oh goodness! haha
Man has always self-destructed. It's a little thing called...SIN.
Every man will die eventually.
And God will eventually destroy this planet.
Our species is slated for Judgement, not for "survival" via any power or reason of our own.
Backup by the Word.
No one has the definitive answer to this question, yet. It's an interesting question, the fact that the instinct for survival makes us predators to begin with but that may not serve us now, and that prediliction for predation may eventually lead to our extinction.
People DO tend to hang on to things that don't serve them anymore. I don't know why.
People are also the least adaptable species on the planet; we don't adapt to our environment, we change it.
Nothing is forever. Whatever does lead to our extinction; a global natural disaster; a collision with an astral object; our cataclysmic penchant for doing violence to each other in war (nuclear war)...who knows, it remains to be seen.
Your quote: "... the fact that the instinct for survival makes us predators..." is incorrect.
Hunger made man a predator.
His penchant for animal protein in his diet caused a rapid increase in brain cells, which, over time engendered the anomaly consciousness.
Consciousness made a better hunter.
Predation is a mode of life by which food is primarily obtained by killing and consuming animals.
Killing, is as natural to life for man as it is for an African lion.
Killing has become a "natural" aptitude for evolving man.
He is a diabolical killer who involves, genetically, both instinct and conscious will.
He is the most proficient and deadly predator evolution has created on this planet.
One must "eat" to survive.
We are what we are today because we became omnivores!
They shy away from the hard stuff..lol
I guess it's much less stressful to answer questions like: "Who's watching Idol?"
Speaks volumes in terms of levels of intellect. LMAO
Our Conciousness and our Intelligence will actually save us. We are concious of the dangers of global warming. Our Intelligence makes us very aware of the danger of nuclear war. And it seems crazy people want to live more than the rest of us. That's why no one pressed that button yet. And, NASA may already have something very nasty waiting for any asteroid that comes near our planet.
What's so sad is man's fear of death. The faithful want to live forever, they're scared of dying. So they want GOD to murder the whole planet so they can come out on the other end with ETERNAL LIFE.
It's really sad that we will be having this same conversation, two, three, maybe five hundred years from now. And we will still be scared to die, scared the worlds going to come to an end, or we're all going to die out.
I don't agree with you at all, but I respect the simple fact that you didn't just ignore this very important subject.
You responded and offered your opinion...thank you!
It seems that "the serious" is not of great interest in the forum.
I could go into a long harangue about why I disagree, but why?
I enjoy "hubbing" when everyone gets involved and offer all kinds of opinions from silly to sage.
Thanks for your opinion...:-)
Well I probably wouldn't have offered an opinion, but since you make it like we're dumb if we don't try and predict the future, I'll go ahead and give it a shot so you can tell me I'm wrong.
I hope that reason will prevail. I have faith in people. We have always progressed, and I believe we will continue to.
I acknowledge the fact that I could be wrong. Sure we have alot of faults, flaws and there are those who will take advantage of ignorance and greed, but that has always been so. The bad is not getting worse, only methods change not depths of depravity.
But the good has always improved, the heights of our enlightenment have always grown.
Subconsciously we are consciously changing. I don't think we'll destroy ourselves. A meteor may strike, but barring such, I believe we'll be okay.
Are you Familiar with Stephan Hawking?
I didn't intimate that anyone was dumb for not responding.
My question just doesn't seem to interest anyone.
It seems "hubbing" about trivialities is of much greater import.
Yeah well, everyone's gotta make a living I guess.
Stephen Hawking not especially. Been introduced to him a few times, but wouldn't call myself familiar with him.
Thanks for a reply;
Stephan Hawking is a cosmologist and physicist known best for his studies relating to "black holes."
In one of his speeches, he said (parphrase) that man is in greater danger of himself than from any astronomical event.
He also mentioned that for man to survive, he'd have to leave this planet.
Einstein also said that the only way man could survive is to be governed by a powerful 1 world gov't.
I agree with all points, but I think it's too late for man to be too concerned with any of their views.
There has not been a time in the evolution of our species that it has had the ability to destroy the majority of extant life on the planet. it does now...and has he desire to do so.
"has had the ability to destroy the majority of extant life on the planet. it does now...and has he desire to do so."
No, and no.
Hawking is a brilliant mind - but his 'field' of brilliance is not society, the same applies to Einstein. In Einstein's time the idea of good single world government was thought to be a possibility - the behaviour of world governments as models is not inspiring any more.
My own opinion comes from my huge faith in ordinary people. I feel as though a change is coming but a change in the way we govern ourselves generally - that might then be suitable as a world class model. And I think it will be nothing like the clut***k that we have now, anywhere in the world.
I'd like to believe that, but the "big" picture I view doesn't include the possiblity of that to happen.
I appreciate your honest responses. Thank you.
I hope we can just agree to disagree....:-)
My curiosity has been piqued by something you wrote: "My own opinion comes from my huge faith in ordinary people."
What is it in the history of man to today, that has created your "faith in ordinary people?"
What in your mind would you define "ordinary people: as?
That is a very interesting comment.
We are soooo doomed! We are like little krill with a death wish! To find any reason for this insanity to continue would be a miracle all by it self!
Everywhere is freaks and hairies,
dikes and faries, tell me where is sanity!
I'd love to change the world but I don't know what to do.
So I'll leave that up to you!
(Ten Years After)
The more decency we sacrifice the closer we are to the end and we're sliding fast. The threads of moral behavior are failing at the onslaught of corruption and we're begining to fall. The things that define us as civilized are being destroyed by primal lust.
"Have mercy on them Father, they know not what they do." said Jesus during his crucifiction.
Where did we lose our way? What turned good people into self-absorbed drones? How did we let this happen?
The apocalypse is a christian thing and they will probably get it big time, not in the earth shattering way they talk - just poof !! and they will be ignored to extinction. The rest of the world will quickly forget them and they will be a strange episode in the history books read by children of all races in a peaceful world just getting on with its own business.
I would love to think that that will happen and that the fad; "monotheism" will be replaced by the enlightenment education brings...but, the majority of humanity lives primitively and education is not available to them. They are easily led and controlled.
When you chat with a monotheist, regardless of which of the 3 major sects he has chosen, it becomes obvious that these peoples indoctrination into the world of myth and superstition has been so deeply imprinted into their psyches that logic and reason are completely foreign to them and they react pugnaciously if they are challenged.
If you have read any of my "hubs" you are aware that I am of the opinion that "armageddon" is a self-fulfilling-prophecy that they are all dedicated to realizing in very near future.
my concern is that "man" has evovled to a point in time that he can now begin the destruction of all extant life on this planet and he seems to have developed a fanatical "will" to do just that.
I don't quite agree - most of the world either do not subscribe to one of the religions you mention or do with a passing nod to its general higher thoughts that are still clear enough that the a******s cannot cover them with the babble of their own moronic interpretations.
Most of the world still understands that metaphysical things are by definition unknowable, just guessable. I can't remember the numbers but China has, I think, around one third of the world population and apart from a very very few they light incense sticks and let off firecrackers to ward of 'evil spirits' that they know are luck, chance etc. They do not wave their incense wands in serious attempts to conjure up the spirit of a god as some do in the christian 'faith' (their claim, not mine).
Most of the rest of the sensible world has a thing for Buddhism which has no deity but puts up guidelines for living. The minority are in the hate camps.
"most of the world either do not subscribe to one of the religions you mention or do with a passing nod to its general higher thoughts "
You got some data to back that up? No, no you do not.
"I can't remember the numbers but China has, I think, around one third of the world population "
"apart from a very very few they light incense sticks and let off firecrackers to ward of 'evil spirits' that they know are luck, chance etc. They do not wave their incense wands in serious attempts to conjure up the spirit of a god as some do in the christian 'faith' (their claim, not mine)."
How do you manage to live in such isolation in such a crowded country?
"Most of the rest of the sensible world has a thing for Buddhism which has no deity but puts up guidelines for living. The minority are in the hate camps"
Do you always state your personal bias as if it were fact?
At least it is now clear why you understand nothing about this country. I guess you tried to slide your christian 'bias' in under the cover of teaching, if you ever were really here, and they rejected you huh ? Sensible people too aren't they
"At least it is now clear why you understand nothing about this country."
Quite the contrary. You sound like you never leave your apartment, or foreigner-house or wherever they are keeping you.
As I said - you clearly know nothing about this country at all. My travels all over China are well documented and photographed and open for anyone to see. You show up with a few smart ass comments and vague claims and some pretend poetry hubs. You are talking preconception and ignorance.
"As I said - you clearly know nothing about this country at all."
And I've told you that your childish attempts at claiming some sort of 'authority' via denial of experiences that contradict your 'agenda' is false. A great deal of what you have said is in direct contradiction of my experiences and those of many others, and all the tourist pics in the world won't change that.
We've been over this before. Do you feel threatened by the fact that I have also lived in China but my experiences do not affirm your views? Or are you one of those who wants to believe he is the only Marco Polo to ever set foot in the Middle Kingdom from 'afar'?
No we have not been over this before you made some claim and some comment about 'working with Tibetan refugees'. You have never uttered one word to show that you actually were ever here, and if you did pass through you clearly learned nothing, if you ever saw anything. You seem to have no understanding at all of the conditions here for Chinese or for foreigners just the same boring preconceptions and prejudices that I hear from other don't knows.
Yes, we have been over this before. We have also covered the fact that your comments, not mine, suggest a very isolated and limited interaction with the nation and people that you seem to have idolized to an almost absurd level.
making childish attacks is not supplying any evidence that you have any foundation for your prejudices - the fact that I live here, am part of a Chinese family, teach every day, guest lecture at one of the top five Universities in China, have travelled all around China - and never with any restriction or even question except on the way from Urumuqi to Ely at the start of the current 'unrest' in Xingjiang means that I do know what I am talking about.
I guess you either live in a world of your own imaginings, or if you ever were here you were disappointed to find the bible on open sale in any bookstore, churches alive and well all over the place and nobody interested in the claptrap you obviously believe so fervently. Maybe you were one of the long haired spotty christian geeks who think they can play the guitar and sing and who huddle in groups plotting how to get around to hellfire and damnation in the kiddy classes ?
" Maybe you were one of the long haired spotty christian geeks who think they can play the guitar and sing and who huddle in groups plotting how to get around to hellfire and damnation in the kiddy classes ?"
Or maybe not. That's a pretty specific imagination you got there. A little troubling...
"Well - there is only speculation so far and it fits your profile so . . ."
What 'profile' is that?
" the fact that I live here, am part of a Chinese family, teach every day, guest lecture at one of the top five Universities in China, have travelled all around China"
Great, you and thousands and thousands of others. I don't need to see your passport or ticket receipts to believe you. See how that works?
"means that I do know what I am talking about."
No, that does not logically follow. Many of your comments suggest a very narrow view and/or limited interaction with your surroundings there. Again, you seem to suffer from a deep need to try and paint China as all things wonderful and pure in contrast to that terrible nasty western world you have been taught to view as terrible and corrupt because someone got it in your head that to do so was 'intellectual.' You seem to have an unrealistic view of where you are and where you come from.
You don't have to like it, but I and many others have been where you are, and your opinions and prejudices do not automatically carry special weight.
I have never claimed any special weight - I offer my view from where I am and what I see. My opinion I back up with how I got it, what I saw and experienced to produce that opinion. You on the other hand do nothing except make petty groundless comments with no opinion or reason to back them up. You could of course put up some experience that backs your narrow view, maybe put up where you were supposedly teaching and I can then go on the public and open college net here and see what your students had to say about you.
" if you ever were here you were disappointed to find the bible on open sale in any bookstore"
It actually wasn't when I was there, but why would that disappoint me?
"I have never claimed any special weight"
Of course you do. That is why you respond to experiences that do not validate your opinions by denouncing and denying them.
" I offer my view from where I am and what I see."
"My opinion I back up with how I got it, what I saw and experienced to produce that opinion."
"You on the other hand do nothing except make petty groundless comments with no opinion or reason to back them up."
Wrong. This is how you attempt to dismiss anything that does not support your fantasy that you are an impeachable source.
"You could of course put up some experience that backs your narrow view, maybe put up where you were supposedly teaching and I can then go on the public and open college net here and see what your students had to say about you."
That service was not up when I was teaching at the Xi'an University of Architechture and Technology, newbie. Internet access was virtually unheard of for most people back in the early 90s.
Admit it, you want nothing more than to play the role of unquestioned authority and it galls you to have anyone question your declarations. Well, get used to it. We all have our opinions and you are welcome to yours, but you are not the alpha and omega no matter how much you want to be.
On a more pleasant note, I enjoy reading your hubs.
We agree to disagree..:-)
You mention: "Most of the rest of the sensible world..." What facet of "mankind" do you refer to as being sensible?
I am a student of history.
I haven't, yet, been able to put any facet of evolving man into that category.
At the moment, approximately 53% of the worlds population believes in a god! 3+ billion!
Islam is the fastest growing of the 3 major monotheisms.
As human population increases, human squalor, deprivation and illiteracy will increase.
All of this creates conditions which facilitate and nurture the growth in numbers of believers.
Life will become so difficult that many will "pray" for an end to earthly life and for an eternal life with god/allah in heaven.
I see no possiblity of man rising above the magnitude of ignorance and religious fanaticism that will be engendered in the future by an increase in human pain and suffering.
Well, my parents were hopelessly indoctrinated as well, but a bit less than their parents, and I turned out okay. My own children are beyond indoctrination.
I understand your viewpoint, and yeah it can happen. But I have faith in our abilities to continue evolving and hopefully we'll get there before we kill ourselves.
I wouldn't say human kind was at the brink of destruction, and reason is still fairly prevailant in the day to day world (although not so much in peoples own minds).
Mankind has had doomsayers since the dawn of our conciousness, and things have worked out for us so far. I have to admit though, I would feel safer if we had another planet or two/solar system or two/galaxy or two colonized as well.
Nevertheless, human kind has a whole variety of tehnological advancements which means our bodies don't need to adapt so much, it's kind of like a cushion, passing us from the impact of changes in the world around us.
if evolution is inevitable, then we just go with the flow, we adapt, we go with the process and this question couldnt even be a question
I don't think we are on the brink of self destruction. I thought we were on the brink of destruction in the 80's when I used to bring home nuclear war pamphlets from school. Baffling little pamphlets that taught you to push your mattress up against your bedroom door in case of nuclear attack. At 10 years old, realizing my only defence against a nuclear bomb was a bed, I was pretty sure extinction was inevitable. But I made it to adulthood. :-)
No I don't think predation will overrule reason. We are also genetically programmed to reason and survival is our main goal. When it comes to the point that reason will be more likely to ensure our survival than anything else it will be foremost. It might look at that point like it's too late, but it seems what causes us to adapt is having no choice. When things go bad is when humans seem to suddenly get on with things and make the changes they should have made long ago. But before that can happen people really need to be more educated.
What would happen if the "unreasonable" vastly outnumber the "reasonable?"...and they are equipped with nuclear potential and totally dedicated to the destruction of their fellow man whom they view as being "infidels" and worthy only of death and should face allah and his punishment...and in doing so, they are martyrd and rewarded handsomely by allah in heaven for eternity?
Think we might have been having a slightly different conversation. I was thinking of resources etc. not religion. But on to what you were talking about...
If such a time comes it will not be because of their religion. Religion is nothing. People pick it up to use like a gun. A gun on it's own is nothing and the same holds for religion in the sense you bring up, along with nationalism. It can't do anything on it's own. In the hands of humans anything could be used for good or evil. Reason can also be used in any way. It's a tool.
It sounds like you are speaking of the armageddon. Do we have enough reason in this world to overcome that? I doubt it. The poor and disenfranchised feel like they have nothing to lose. They are easily swayed by the promise of better. Are you going to be able to go in there and say there is nothing better, this is it and get good results. No. We are very reward motivated.
But are they wrong? I don't know. They lose land, and they lose lives because of political interferences. Should they really be expected to not fight back. Is that reasonable? And if they invoke allah on their side I still don't think it has much to do with the big picture. It might be a little more incentive to move forward with plans, but I think they would come to pass anyway. Things just keep escalating in this and no one seems to have the good sense to walk away. Human vengeance is an amazing thing.
Will fanatics adapt to survive? Only if their adaption would help with their survival. So probably not. They could completely rationalize the non existence of God and still be faced with the same political problems and harsh lives. There is really no incentive. Nobody has put a better offer on the table. And not just for themselves. A lot are like that because of the suffering they see others go through too.
Do I think we'll become extinct? Nope. We have enough reason to know what is coming and someone somewhere will act accordingly. Even if that entails building a big tunnel underground, or shoving a mattress against their door.
Well hope I make sense. I'm half asleep.
To realize a peaceful world where all men come together as brothers to work in concert to guarantee the suvival of the species, all that currently fragments man in ref to life and thought would have to be sublimated.
The only way that could happen is for Mankind to be reduced to a level that it could be educated and governed successfully.
As it exists, that is pure idealism.
The odds don't exist that that could happen.
As human population burgeons, the probability that man will destroy itself becomes greater.
I agree that our species will not become extinct. it will survive but the ensuing species will certainly not resemble the man of today.
I appreciate your responses...:-)
alright...here's my thought. Logic, life skills and survival are learned....as a mother tiger would teach her young in the wilderness. HOWEVER, as I am seeing with people in my generation.....WE ARE NOT TEACHING OUR CHILDREN THOSE SKILLS ANY LONGER, for the most part. Some are, but I'm seeing alot of children get their info spoon fed to them rather than having them logically think 'er through. Asking the child questions, like "why do you think that is the answer?" instead of "that's not completely right, but here is a gold star anyway...." steers the young learner in the right direction OR affirms that they are moving in the right direction with the logic. When a child asks "why?" Why NOT throw the question back at them and make THEM think about it, rather than just giving them the answer. I don't know.....just an observation....no hard evidence....
You couln't be "righter." lol
I went to a college that worked with ya' in ref to learning i.e. when ya' take a test and ya get some answers wrong, they'd give ya a chance to re-study those areas and take a test on those areas you were weak in and you could improve your grade.
It was a wonderful way to learn. Kids in school should be given the same kinds of opportunites in learning how to think.
I liked your answer.
I have been avoiding this thread, up to this point. However, there can be some validity to the question asked.
Does "Reason" Stand a Chance?
Reason against irrationality.
Reason against insanity.
Reason against ignorance.
It's a 3 on 1 battle, and the odds, as it stands right now, when you look at ALL of humanity together, then YES there probably isn't going to be a good outlook.
I brought up my thoughts about a "new way of thinking", which also means a new mindset or frame of mind, however it suits you.
It will be required for humanity to further survive and finally put to rest many of the problems plaguing society to society, culture to culture and nation to nation.
It is apparent, people must change their individual way of thinking. The idea "World Peace" is the ultimate goal for human beings on Earth. And, it's apparent, at the pace we're presently traveling....we'll self-destruct before we ever even remotely see it as a possibility, never mind think it can be obtained.
Just my thoughts.
I can go with this - it kinda agrees with what I think and said earlier.
If we accept this train of thought then THE issue is how can we get from here to there. What changes in society could get us there without destroying us.
One reason I think that Quark is so certain of destruction is because from inside the current madness that runs our societies no good end can be seen. However, if we look outside and consider that 'other' forms of society can slide into place relatively easily then we should be trying to put some shape to what those other forms of society might look like.
After only a few thousand years we have progressed from fighting over religion and land, thievery, murder, and greed, to fighting over religion and land, thievery, murder and greed.
I think we might be hopelessly delayed.
It's so hard to get everyone on the same page, to make a universal change in societies. I think that's what Christ and Buddha and the prophets are all about. Getting people to go along with a beneficial change to society to avoid self-destruction; starting a movement that grows.
The problem is that all those religions have in their turn and time proved themselves to not work. And it is hard to imagine a new religion that would do the job, it could be that it would be more likely that it would come from a new Politics of some kind, or a new economics. But it would appear that a new something is required.
Yes, indeed. A new paradigm. We live in a box of our own creating.
"The problem is that all those religions have in their turn and time proved themselves to not work."
No matter what status in life we are at, humankind has made it through the worst and will continue to do so...
I do not doubt one bit we can adapt and survive what the next dozen years has to dish out...
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