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Cell Consciousness

  1. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    This has been argued in other threads, but I feel it needed a thread of it's own.

    Do you think that it is possible for consciousness to start at the cellular level, why or why not?

    I think there is good evidence to show cells have a level of consciousness.

    One example is communication between cells. The cells contain specific protein receptors in the cell membrane that send molecular signals throughout the cells. Through conscious communication, the cells group together forming protective barriers that decide which materials are needed for survival while rejecting harmful ones.

    Do cells display conscious reactions for survival?

    1. msorensson profile image65
      msorenssonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes.

  2. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Yes. They realize the presence of themselves and other cells and work together. Activating and deactivating for a purpose.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thank You Cole. big_smile

  3. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    No problem smile

    1. rebekahELLE profile image92
      rebekahELLEposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      hi cole, haven't seen you for a while. smile

      1. Colebabie profile image59
        Colebabieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I know!! I can't wait until May when I finally graduate and have some more free time. Although I did just apply for a teaching position that is 48 hours a week smile I'm always a busy busy girl. I miss you guys though.

        1. rebekahELLE profile image92
          rebekahELLEposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          exciting! you should be so proud of yourself, what a great accomplishment. big_smile

  4. rebekahELLE profile image92
    rebekahELLEposted 7 years ago

    I believe this could be true. each cell having a single cell consciousness. the brain is composed of a colony of cells, not one single life unit. everything connects and communicates.

    such a fascinating topic.

  5. srwnson profile image61
    srwnsonposted 7 years ago

    I think that consciousness does start at the cellular level; However self awarness is another story.

    This question is an on-going debate among abortionists and anti-abortionists.

  6. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Thank You all for your answers. I also don't think our consciousness would be possible if the cells didn't have a level of consciousness. Does this mean we can alter our cells by conscious thoughts or actions?

    1. rebekahELLE profile image92
      rebekahELLEposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      why not? I believe we can do much more than we could imagine, even doctors have said this in relation to miracles in the operating room, etc.

      have you read any of Gregg Braden's work?

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Nope, never read him. But it seems possible that thoughts could change the cells in instances like stress causing heart attacks.

        1. Obscure Divine profile image60
          Obscure Divineposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I think there will be a lot more research done in the future, that studies the concepts of "mind over body" and/or how our thoughts can effect the human body, along with the healing powers of the mind.  Interesting stuff...

  7. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Sure sometimes.  Our actions affect our stress level. Our immune system is affected by stress. And so leukocytes probably are affected.

  8. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    I am "amazed" that no one has said it is ridiculous for cells to have a consciousness. Is our consciousness raising? big_smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Well - you have redefined the word "consciousness" to the point where it basically has no meaning. No food for thought for me I'm afraid. Not got anything to add to your assertions that cells are conscious and scientists are scared. I guess all animate life is conscious, according to your new definition. Sorry.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Could a cell have awareness of other cells without the ability of consciousness? How is that?

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Did you even bother reading what I wrote?

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yes I read it. Do you disagree that awareness and consciousness are linked?

            Either the leading scientists are holding back on claiming cell consciousness or they don't know. I find it hard to believe that they don't know. Many that aren't scientists can see that cells have a level of consciousness or awareness or they wouldn't be alive.

            If all cells are conscious, all life is conscious. How are my definitions wrong? Because I refer to mechanisms as consciousness?

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Really - what did I say exactly?

              1. marinealways24 profile image60
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                It seems that you agree all cells are conscious. big_smile

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Dear me. Too lazy even to read what I wrote.

                  ciao

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    If the assertions were incorrect, maybe you would have a point to add for why cells aren't conscious, instead, you circle and run.

              2. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
                Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                "Well - you have redefined the word "consciousness" to the point where it basically has no meaning. No food for thought for me I'm afraid. Not got anything to add to your assertions that cells are conscious and scientists are scared. I guess all animate life is conscious, according to your new definition. Sorry."

                roll
                since even in the Stanford definition of consciousness it states that there is no agreed upon definition, how could Marine be changing it?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Well - what is the definition that marine is using?

                  1. marinealways24 profile image60
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Consciousness = Life

                    Unconscious life does not have conscious reactions. Conscious reactions start on the cellular level, consciousness of cells in the environment along with consciousness of threats to the cell life.
                    It could also be said they have awareness rather than consciousness, both are linked, just used differently at times.

      2. ceciliabeltran profile image83
        ceciliabeltranposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Mark, define consciousness as it is defined by established sources, cite source please. Be a good Uke this time.

  9. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
    Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago

    Possibly, or maybe you/we are merely communicating better. Thinking first and not doing the knee-jerk, that hasn't ever been said before therefore it has to be wrong thing...

    It is a fascinating subject/concept, it reeks of possibilities and possible truths, and it is causing me to think alot... When I have thought enough to be able to give you a coherent opinion I will...


    Carry on...  big_smile

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Thank You Mikel. I appreciate that. big_smile

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I will say where I am so far.

        Humanity as a whole is made up of a multitude of smaller organisms, we call the smaller organisms humans/individuals... each one is coherent and conscious by itself but when linked together they become smarter than any 1 'cell'... so if it is true at that level, then it is probably true at other smaller levels... and that leads me to other 'bigger' levels as well, such as solar systems...planets...  hmm

        So what exactly is 'Consciousness'...the God spark? That which animates life? The life force? Thought...communication, just the ability to communicate?  ... hmm

        according to Wiki:
        Consciousness is subjective experience or awareness or wakefulness or the executive control system of the mind.

        Mind, not brain... hmm

        according to Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
        Consciousness-

        Perhaps no aspect of mind is more familiar or more puzzling than consciousness and our conscious experience of self and world. The problem of consciousness is arguably the central issue in current theorizing about the mind. Despite the lack of any agreed upon theory of consciousness, there is a widespread, if less than universal, consensus that an adequate account of mind requires a clear understanding of it and its place in nature. We need to understand both what consciousness is and how it relates to other, nonconscious, aspects of reality.

        http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/

        again Mind not brain... hmm hmm hmm

        Mind to me is the intangible thing that the brain produces, or that intangible thing that is read/realized by the brain... perhaps something without a brain simply does what one that has a brain does without being aware of the act itself? Being unaware of the act, it cannot choose... hence the brain is what allows us freewill and the ability to choose?

  10. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
    Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago

    @ Mark:

    I posted this----> I will say where I am so far.

    Humanity as a whole is made up of a multitude of smaller organisms, we call the smaller organisms humans/individuals... each one is coherent and conscious by itself but when linked together they become smarter than any 1 'cell'... so if it is true at that level, then it is probably true at other smaller levels... and that leads me to other 'bigger' levels as well, such as solar systems...planets... 

    So what exactly is 'Consciousness'...the God spark? That which animates life? The life force? Thought...communication, just the ability to communicate?  ...

    according to Wiki:
    Consciousness is subjective experience or awareness or wakefulness or the executive control system of the mind.

    Mind, not brain...

    according to Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
    Consciousness-

    Perhaps no aspect of mind is more familiar or more puzzling than consciousness and our conscious experience of self and world. The problem of consciousness is arguably the central issue in current theorizing about the mind. Despite the lack of any agreed upon theory of consciousness, there is a widespread, if less than universal, consensus that an adequate account of mind requires a clear understanding of it and its place in nature. We need to understand both what consciousness is and how it relates to other, nonconscious, aspects of reality.
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/

    again Mind not brain...   

    Mind to me is the intangible thing that the brain produces, or that intangible thing that is read/realized by the brain... perhaps something without a brain simply does what one that has a brain does without being aware of the act itself? Being unaware of the act, it cannot choose... hence the brain is what allows us freewill and the ability to choose?


    What do you think?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      With you. Humans - individuals. Humanity - all humans. OK

      Not so much - plenty are just following along and plenty are not coherent -

      You also need to explain in exact terms what you mean by this new word, "conscious"


      Cell? What cell?

      Linked together? What do you mean? Linked together how exactly?

      Smarter? - no. I see the opposite actually.



      It is not true on that level, so this all falls apart.



      You are the one making the assertions that humans are 'conscious' - but you don't know what that means?


      Lost me. Please define this word that you assert us humans are.



      Lost me again. Too many assertions and questions. I mean - you are making an assertion that humans are conscious, but then cannot define that word.

      Perhaps if you started by defining that - then moved on to the rest?

      I prefer "self aware," a la Descartes myself.

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I was using the term cells as:
        Cells are things that make up greater/bigger things. A cell in the human condition being the individual, with humanity being the whole that the grouped cells make up.

        Humans working in teams would be joined/grouped, and we are usually smarter/stronger when working together in groups or teams.

        The assumption that humans are coherent (can stand alone/work alone) and are conscious, if we aren't generally conscious (based on the best current definitions of the concept) then who/what is?

        Des Cartes used self-aware to describe conscious-ness...

        I think therefore I am.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          OK


          Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Ever heard the term "too many cooks spoil the broth"? You think Einstein would have worked better as apart of a team?


          Please define this term.


          Yes. I like that definition and I do not think it applies at a cellular level. And I am using the word "cell" in it's accepted meaning "the smallest part of an animal or plant that is able to function independently." rather than your new meaning. I do not think an individual "cell" in my body is self-aware. I imagine - if that were the case - many of them would have abandoned ship long since. lol 

          Still - what was this truth you wanted to explore with an atheist?

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
            Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            consciousness...what it is.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image61
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              You already decided that humans have it.

              But - you don't know what it is?

              1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
                Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                exactly.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image61
                  Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I see.

                  So - how do you know humans have it if you do not know what it is?

                  1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
                    Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I Think, Therefore I Am....


                    What AM I Again?

    2. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol You are messing me up with all of the hard questions at the same time. Easy questions are alright all at one time.
      On the brain and mind, i'm not so sure they aren't actually the same. Possibly in our strive for higher consciousness, we labeled mind to separate ourselves from other animals that have brains. What do you think?

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        If Brain and Mind are the same then plants cannot be conscious because they don't possess a brain, and then neither can cells, because brain cells are not a brain but merely a part of one...

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Ah, but the plants have cells that exibit conscious/subconscious reactions to the environment. The cell has a membrain. big_smile
          Possibly the brain evolved in us for our higher consciousness of needing to store more information from generation to generation.

          1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
            Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            AHHH.... hmm

            How do you make a smiley with smoke coming out its ears?

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know, but the smoke will cloud your conscious. lol

              1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
                Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                lol

  11. Jewels profile image82
    Jewelsposted 7 years ago

    Unconscious reactions can start at the cellular level. 

    You don't have to be conscious of your cells at an individual level in order for them to function.

    Consciousness = life

    Consciousness does not necessarily = awareness.

    Awareness is consciousness knowing it's conscious.

    Life does not necessarily = intelligence.  Yet human intelligence 'could be' seen as completely different to the intelligence of a plant.  Unless you become the plant, can you ever satisfactorily answer the question "does a plant have an awareness of itself?"  I think not.

    Does the cell have 'knowhow'?  When an individual has awareness of the cell, does that cell then function at a more optimum level?

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Ok just because the whole (the person) is unconscious, doesn't mean the individual cell is.

      Not being aware of the cells or not doesn't demonstrate whether they are conscious or not.

      I'm not sure I agree that consciousness=life, Life has as a part of it possibly consciousness, but there are forms of life that don't have consciousness...i.e.??? fire,no hmm hmmm...maybe you're right...

      and the rest of your statement I agree with.

      1. Jewels profile image82
        Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Fire does have consciousness, it has life.   From the human standpoint it doesn't have intelligence.  Or does it?

        I agree the cell is not unconscious.  It is conscious but we, the ones with the ability to be aware, are not aware that the cell is there, except we are told it is.

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
          Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          according to the movie 'Back Draft' it does...lol

          as to the awareness of the cells being there, being told they are, makes us aware that they are there.

          aware/knowing

          conscious/?being?

  12. Jewels profile image82
    Jewelsposted 7 years ago

    Again humans generally are not very aware of their consciousness, their life, their functionality either at a cellular level or intelligence level.

    So to say humans are conscious is not true, they are very unaware, living in more of an unconscious state.  This is the definition of the term sleeper.

  13. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago

    Awareness is simply active data.
    Consciousness is the total collection of that data with the ability and desire to process it.

    The 'program' was always there.

    And like all creatures, each 'program' is designed according to its kind. The mind of a frog is not the mind of a goat, etc; et all share basic bootstrap programs. Eat, sleep, do-do, grow, etc. So in that sense everything has a basic intelligence.

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      like someone else posted...DOS is consciousness and windows is awareness?

      1. profile image0
        Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        sure.
        the boot disk is instinct, even at the cell level { mitosis }
        the operating system the brain.
        the disk space determines how much can be stored.

        If it is Windows, a lot of programs are crashing..lol
        I prefer mac. big_smile

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          We agree on something. !

          Actually - with the slow rib cooking - that is twice. big_smile

        2. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
          Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I would say:
          The boot disk as instinct...ok
          The operating systems... learned behavior/education/possibly awareness
          the disk space... Brain size and intelligence

          1. profile image0
            Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            i dispute eduction via equality of species.
            grasshoppers are all the same intellect.
            humans the same.
            humans have the ability to activate or deactivate information, thus the assumption of smart/not smart. a smart person simply has most active data/awareness than the other.

  14. Jewels profile image82
    Jewelsposted 7 years ago

    Mark Descartes has missed allot.  We think therefore I am is very true.  But our thinking is extremely limited which is why what we think creates our limited realities.  Which is why most people are not living to their fullest capacity.  Which is why people look outside themselves (to a church for example) for deliverance.  When in fact they have everything within themselves if they could only broaden their states of mind beyond their social upbringings.

    Social upbringing is extremely limited, confined in the modern world to materialism, the opposite of which is a more internal state of being, ie self pleasure as opposed to physical objects as pleasure.  (That is of course another topic).

    It is true your thinking is the prime reason for being f*cked in the head (excuse the graphics), or not.  But there is so much beyond the thinking mind, as usually the thinking mind is a cesspool of blah blah blah.  Believe it or not there is major bliss beyond thoughts.  You just have to get the hell out of the mind (without drugs).

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely. I do my best thinking on an Aikido mat when all I am doing is blending with my attackers.

      Went for a two hour mountain bike ride on Saturday. Same thing. Despite the pain of falling off rather heavily.

      I do like Descartes - especially when taken in context.

      Mind. No mind.

      1. Jewels profile image82
        Jewelsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Ouch, hope it didn't hurt too much.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Landed in a bramble bush, so - no serious pain, because it cushioned the fall, but I am covered in scratches.

          Not as young as I used to be..... sad

  15. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago

    the très priori:

    consider, collect, conclude.
    pre-action, action, reaction.
    question, process, answer.

    preriori, priori, posteriori

    1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I understand that, but I find it difficult to make the meanings of three words mean a single thing, the lumping together of humid, rain and thunderstorm throws me...it is either one or other...

      In English isn't tres priori just a rational thought process?

      1. profile image0
        Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        which is consciousness, correct.
        again, it is all rationed, ratios, rationale.
        the 'process' is the middle area between question/answer or better said consideration/conclusion.

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
          Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          ok then it is simply what we are doing or trying to do in this thread.

          But I don't believe that is what consciousness is. The thought process may be a part of consciousness, but I don't believe it is the whole ball of wax...so to speak.

          1. profile image0
            Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            there are two primary explanations of core consciousness:

            -totality : a complete set of instructions pre-implanted to allow complete ability.
            -active developed: perceived thought in motion, which concludes learning or evolving from-into. (which to me is awareness or active or dormant consciousness )

            so I am not sure which one we are splicing, maybe both? jeje.

            1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
              Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Do you have sources? (definitions because my definition sources don't say that.)

              But I think I understand what you're saying...how scary is that...

              big_smile

              1. profile image0
                Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                lol. indeed.
                i'll be back. gotta put my boy to bed.

      2. profile image0
        Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        it is all three but one.
        much like everything else in the universe.

        light is one thing with three main variations: rays, optic, waves
        like water: solid, liquid, vapor.
        atoms: proton, neutron, electron.

        yada yada yada.

        1. Mikel G Roberts profile image86
          Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          ok...parts or varying stages of a concept...

          past;present;future
          cold;tepid;hot

          ok how do you apply it to consciousness again?

          1. profile image0
            Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            question . process/think . answer

            I use the 'echo' effect in my book-in-progress' to visualize consciousness. Shout in a canyon, the sound is absorbed all over the place and echos back (reflects). Just like light, it projects, absorbs and reflects. The absorbing is magnetic or polar equal, which is why we can see colors, etc. Works in our imaginations the same way, same elemental energy that allows thought.

  16. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Mark Knowles: Thanks for being so predictable. I don't have an easy peasy answer for you. There is no doubt in my mind that consciousness as I understand it does not apply to plants.


    Yes, but you do admit to them having an awareness. What is the main difference of awareness and consciousness to you?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Yes - you are right. As I understand you to be using the word, everything is conscious. Conscious=life.

      I never admitted any such thing marine. Awareness? Yes - everything is aware by your definitions. Yes - scientists must be scared of your new "gnostic" knowledge. Design? Ah - a new word to mean - 'anything that exists' I guess? lol

      Science has designed consciousness. Please prove otherwise.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Science has altered consciousness, but not designed it from scratch. Can't answer questions without throwing darts trying to assume my motives and belief can you?
        You never admitted what, you admitted the tree had awareness on the other thread. If you disagree with my definitions, explain why you disagree with them.
        Guess what, without design, we might not know we exist. Can unconscious cells design a conscious being?

  17. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    Science seems to know the design of a cell, then why can't science design a cell? Possibly because science can't design consciousness?

  18. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    No rebuttal that you are conscious of plants having awareness Knowles?

 
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