My friend ...
I Believe in, The Truth.
Therefore, Belief, in Theories ...representing believing in someone like myself's Personal Cojecture; within Philosophies, supported by Logics, and Technologies, with a dash of hypcricy, added ... is nothing more than Believing in the Non Believer's Logical attempts, at Definings... The Truth of Reality ...
So, to Believe, in Theories ... by one, who Knows, The Truth of Existential Reality ... to say the least ... is a foolish waste of time.
Big Bang, like Relativity, Time Travel, Terraforming, and the Strings, etc.., are Theories. These are at times, "Similar" to The Truth ... but are "not" The Truth.
Theories are only theories.
But a theory doesn't mean what you are implying it means.
A theory is an explanation of events that has yet to be proven wrong.
Translation: The Theory of Me Typing on a Computer Right Now could easily be proven wrong, but it will never become "the truth", despite the fact that the the answer is almost incontrovertibly "true".
Try to prove this theory true: "The Theory of My Being Bald"
you can't prove it true, you can only fail to prove it wrong.
The Law ... Is.
This means, Tuth, Is, the Universal Constant, and thus, does not need the Scaffoldings of Proof ... to stand on its feet ... or needs being Proven, in order to Exist.
Theories, on the other hand, are our assumptions, when in Doubt ... these assumptions, are invariably about the Facts of the Existential's Reality ... that need Proofs, such as Mathematical or the Test Tube based ... before these are accepted, being the Reality ... but only, by an Elite.
Therefore, to Accept the Universally Manifest... Truth, Is Correct ... thus, the Correct Belief ...
And a Correct Belief is one, which Everyone, can Believe in ... we do not have to be Aristotles, or modern science's hot shots, in order to understand Reality ... for we can see ... So we do not ask Questions ... or seek the reason, why God did not make us win the Jackpot, in State lottery ... thus, stop Believing in God.
we, simply Accept ... even not winning, Is Good for us... Thus, we Accept ... whats been Ordained for us, rather than lamenting on the media or the internet about "Injustices" meted out to us, in this life.
My friends .... I am not publicising Islam, nor am I promoting myself as a Genius ... I am only sharing, what I know of The Reality ... Its a Sharing, within The Ordained Belief .... I do so, Freely, with my equals ... my human brethern, in Destiny.
reality is very deep subject...what u r talking about is personal reality...not absolute reality...
Truth Is ... The Reality, manifest, Physically, in the state of a Physical Universe.
And how could I talk about The Truth ... my station in is too humble ... to address, about The One, who Belongs to all ...
And ... there is no concept of a Personal God, in my Belief ...
I agree with you:
IF you believe there is more to life than what CAN be proven, then, yes, there COULD be things that can't be proven.
The problem with that is simply that we'll never know for sure.
Rogers ... get out of the shackles of Reason ... don't be a slave to Logics ... you are born free ... Exercise your birth Right ... and you will Understand for sure ... once you Free yourself from Logic ... a Satanic Device, making you Doubt, The Truth of Reality.
Yes Rogers, do get away from logic and reason, and we'll soon see our good friend Shakid living in a cave and wondering why.
I ... like... to sound... deep... by using...
...drink the kool-aid... i swear... it's legit....
When you get down to the nuts and bolts of life you are correct, but choice is what disagrees with your statement.
None can decide for you ... but you.
If you choose to remain a Slave ... I cannot help you ... because, you
have the absolute freedom of Choices ... in a Life ... you presume as nuts and bolts ... think ... there is engine, gas, and lubricants ...there are pasenger compartments, and it travels on a Road ...
But above all ...
You ... Drive it ... it goes, where you take it ... but only, if ... you insist, that life is a car !
... that's ... so true...
... the only... reason I can't... use... my arms like... wings. .. and fly... is because... i don't think... i can...
... oopps... i just... broke... my neck...
Its your life ... you can do, what you like with it ... but if you are so passionate about non-stop flying ... I suggest, its lot safer to try the long haul aircrafts... than trying takeing offs ... on hand patched wings ... it has not worked in the past ... and will not ... in future.
I'm .... leaving the shackles of ... reality...
I just... went on... to my roof... and ... jumped... while flapping my arms....
... but ... I just... landed on .... my neck....
In, the Concepts of Reality, you Follow ... Real is Material ... Whereas ... in Truth, Real is more than a dead man's dream ... for its less the Soul ... Meaning, The Dead do not, for they cannot, Argue ... or Fight ... Because, they do not have the Abstract Mind, and the Physical Limbs ... to do so with ...
Anyway, as I said earlier, its your thing, you can do, what you like with it.
Regards and Goodbye
So says the believer who takes advantage of everything scientific theories have provided for them.
Biting the hand that feeds comes to mind.
I say ... in your Semantics ... so that you can easily Understand ...
ya...like who created universe...god did...who created god...god was always there...PERIOD...what is the proof...faith doesnot require proof...PERIOD...
Would you say, there is no Sun ... just because of the clouds?
exactly...should we say there is god merely on basis of what our ancestors wrote...that is cloud which we need to see beyond...we must say big thank you to humans who could go beyond what ever our ancestors wrote to seek truth...they are actual truth seekers ...even out ancestors were truth seekers..they could reach to certain assumptions and based on that they wrote what they wrote...real tribute to them would be going beyond that not being frozen to their era ...
There is a world of difference ... between Belief, in what the Elders said , wrote, or practiced ... and The Truth, Defined.
Thus, as to why, People generally tend to Follow their Ancestors, when it comes to Believing ... is because, everyone, does not have the Required Specific Understanding, of Things, only known to Specialists, such as the Shamans, or to Code Givers, Priests and Kings ... like Hamu Rabbi, Buddha, Mani, or Xenophon.
Thus, we should understand ... That Truth, is The Self Manifest, Reality ... One, that does not need Shamans, Priests, Philosophers, or Elders ... in order to be, Understood, or being Defined... viz. Sun, worshipped by a people in days bygone, as the god, Ra ... is, self manifest ... unless, the beholder of Day, is totally Blind ...
It may help you to understand The Truth of Reality better ... to know, that Truth demands, those with eyes, to help, the Blind ... find their Way.
Don't you think, the Universe, in our heads, is not Proof enough of a Creator ... just because, your Logics, Philosophy, and Science, are yet to Define ... such basics, as ... Matter ?
Considering there isn't a shred of evidence to even suggest a creator and the fact that the universe provides us with evidence that would suggest it wasn't created but instead came about on its own, then no, our imaginations should not preclude or dismiss that evidence or lack thereof.
What ... so called "Evidence" ... do you have in the ambivalent Stance, of your present understanding, to suggest ... forget about proving, Definitively ...That there is No Creator ?
Would you like to know ... What you understand, as "Imagination" ... Is The God Granted Awareness, in Being ... Life ...
What you are Doing, Is following The Ordained, to The Destined.
Though, presently ... you are on way, In, The Ordained ... to a Meaningful Existence ... because, you Seek ... The Truth.
You can find Truth ... by Believing ... but its essentially your "Decision" ... none can help, or influence ... because, only you can Decide ... To Follow ... what you Follow.
For you are Born Free ... thus, totally Free to Decide ... and carve out ... with your own hands ... your Destiny.
I suppose there is a point somewhere in that word salad, but I have to see it. All I see is a faith-based emotional response.
it is not my science...science is not religion which can be divided into my faith ,your faith...science is collective attempt of entire human race...coming to reality...
reality ...how do you perceive reality?...what is tool which you use to perceive it....i got that you think you understand reality...like many in past thought so...nothing wrong in it...
Science, is the Quantified Physical ... mostly, Objects ...
its the Practice, of a Religion, called, Philosophy ... where Real, Is Materiality.
We may perhaps ... some day, talk about a United human Race ... making collective Efforts, towards coming to Peace, with one another ...
Lets Presently talk of Corporations, and Racial Politics ... the "Present day Truth, of ... Reality."
well to understand corporation and racial politics we need to leave religion behind...those are man made things and so have repetitively failed to address human issues...no doubt religions were made for human good by good human beings who were convinced that they were sent by god...now they were not liars...their brains thought so and they believed what their brains made them believe.....but why religion still could not manage to bring peace to the world?...because religion fails to understand from where humans came...and inherently how human as species are...
I am an ordinary person .. like you ... though our difference is, in my Believing ... sans Proof ... and you, being of the Pragmatic.
And ... please note, I do not follow a Religion ... I Practice The Ordained Way of Life ... and find Corporations, and Raceism ... contrary to the Ordained ...
Good bye my Friend
No offense, but that's a very sad argument.
"Would you say, there is no Sun... just because of the clouds?"
No, of course not. We can show, through experiments that water dissipates light and, with enough of it, changes the colors.
In fact, because we can SEE the clouds, we know the Sun still exists (well, with a 7 minute buffer --- it takes 7 minutes for the light of the Sun to hit Earth. we're basking in 7 minute-old light).
Trying to prove the unprovable with nothing more than metaphors is an endeavor that is nothing more than a waste of time.
So is the effort to disprove the un-disprovable.
Oh yes!! The last time I experienced a big bang I thought I saw God!! LOL
For some reason you just reminded me of an old friend (a story they told mostly). This friend told me about how when the earthquake hit San Franscisco back in 1982 (was it? I was a little kid back then lol!). He shared how when the earthquake hit he was in the middle of cheating on his partner with another woman. He really believed that he had angered God and that it was his punishment. Needless to say, he never cheated again!
The other day, I was doing something that I knew was wrong, and in some other area of the universe, something tragic happened.
GOD WAS SPEAKING TO ME!! HE TOLD ME NOT TO DO BAD THINGS!!!
YES He Did!!!
It becomes VERY Addictive when the earth moves!
Best response I've ever read from you!
Greek is a very close second!
I believe in the Big Bang based on the evidence that the galaxies are currently moving away from each other at tremendous speed.
No, I understand the theory and accept it based on the mountains of evidence that support it.
Yes, the Big Bang seems to me to be the most valid creation theory (at this point in time). In the future I'm sure that as science advances the theory will either be refined or replaced.
Right now, it's running first.
It's an incomplete theory apparently. Penrose of Oxford has math and data that shows an earlier universe prior to the big bang. The idea is, it bangs expands and bangs again and again infinitely. SO no 1 beginning, but beginnings.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic … ic_rebirth
Most likely you just skimmed that article but probably didn't read the abstract Penrose submitted. There is no math there.
that's because i've read it in countless sources you are seriously in need of getting out of the forums and into real bookstores.
Countless sources? Such as?
I went to the actual article itself that was published in peer review, you know, where the science stuff is located. You get your stories from pop sci websites. LOL!
it was in yahoo news, B. it was everywhere, when it came out. you think it's this new thing.
Again, I go to the original sources, and would never rely on sources like yahoo, which is ridiculous.
I go to original sources too. I have a subscription. Can you cite those sources please?
But I also know when something is pretty well known and well covered. You however get these news from me.
I can show you the actual lecture in 2005.
http://www.cosmolearning.com/video-lect … g-bang-79/
But then, maybe the chicken scratches will throw you off. but that is math...
conformal rescaling, weyl conformal tensor
much of it is too heavy...but there it is... the math.
and just incase you're confused...
I admit, it's not light reading. but i only do it when necessary.
"Believe in" the Big Bang?
I suppose so. The minds who have arrived at this conclusion are among the best we have, and have examined the available evidence carefully, and for quite a while now. So I think there is a good chance that they are correct; certainly the ways in which scientific methods have allowed us to engage the world and to progress materially are strong evidence that science is highly effective.
But what we know is a very small, compared with all that there is to know. So further developments could surprise--especially since the science doesn't take us back *before* the Big Bang. It doesn't offer us guidance as to whether it was singular or cyclical, impersonal or God's "Fiat lux--Let there be light."
But my 'belief' in the Big Bang doesn't ground my life philosophically. I'm a Unitarian Universalist, and while we don't have dogmas as other faiths do, we do have the principle that each of us participates in a "free and responsible" search for truth and meaning in his or her own life. And for me, meaning is constructed from the depths of our being; it involves choice as well as authenticity.
That means living with heart and head, logic and intuition, listening to others, and balancing confidence with humility--Big Bang or no.
The Big Bang just leads to more questions about how the universe started, was it 'M' theory, The string theory or the 11th dimension? Scientist say there are parallel universes.
DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE BIG BANG?
Wow... I remember being approached in Kings X - Sydney by a Pimp.. Who Asked me that exact question
By the way, it's no longer called "the Big Bang" theory, It's called "The Horrendous Space Kablooie"
PS - i just saw how small the photo is, go here to read the comic: http://chaitanya1.wordpress.com/2008/06 … -kablooie/
I would like to remind everyone, before all the creationists go crazy with any assumptions, that this is how science works (unlike religion).
If you can prove a statement wrong, then it can no longer be called a theory.
This means that, even if the theory of the Horrendous Space Kablooie is wrong, there is still no proof of anything else (necessarily).
If the big bang is false, then this still fails to prove god.
"DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE BIG BANG?"
Until it can be proved otherwise...YEP!
sure do.. it happened my freshman year in university... WHAT a party!
What's the proof? Anything more than the red light shift?
... ... the red light shift is pretty damning evidence.
It means that things are, in general, moving away from us. Which means that, either 1) we're the center of the universe (yeah right), or 2) we're moving away from the center of the universe faster than things closer to it, but slower than things farther away from it.
The second one is the obviously most likely. If things FURTHER away are moving away from us the FASTEST... then, as time was closer to t=0, everything was MUCH closer together.
That red shift might not seem like much, but it's pretty explicit in what it means.
The fact that the universe has been non-quantum for most of its existence is proof that it has undergone a period of super-fast expansion - or a big bang if you will...
I hear a big bang. In my head. Happens everyday. I'm moving out of Texas. O'er to the big pond back home.
The 'red light shift', shows things are moving away. So that would mean that for instance the constellations are moving away. Don't think there is any evidence for this. Their exact placement has been
recorded since at least the Egyptians.
Haha! You're kidding, right?! There's no evidence for this?! Redshift?! The doppler effect? Redshift was first described over 150 years ago.
And how good do you think Egyptians' telescopes were?!
All the stars that we can see are in our own galaxy. We are generally moving in the exact velocity (speed and distance) as these other stars.
When we speak of Hubble's doppler red-shift, we're generally talking about GALAXIES that are THOUSANDS of light years away from us that are also moving at different speeds and directions as our galaxy.
In fact, Edwin Hubble was a co-discoverer of the fact that the Universe goes out beyond our own galaxy. He then used this fact, and measured their color as opposed to the stars in our own galaxy, and found that just about everything he saw outside our galaxy was "red" comparatively.
Even aided by a good telescope, we can only see a few galaxies (orion's belt), but the rest are all stars in our galaxy moving WITH us.
BUT!! EVEN MORE THAN THAT!! He showed that the farther away something is from us, the FASTER away it is moving from us!!
Like i said earlier, "yeah yeah yeah, things are red - who cares?" -- this is pretty damning evidence that the universe is expanding. And thanks to the fact that "time exists" we can see that things must have started at about the same area, and are expanding from that point (or, it means that the Earth is the center of the Universe... yeah right...)
Shahid, there is proof of other life forms, aliens. There is to much pictures, videos, abductions, ect for it not to be true. Here is some logics. With the percentage of these accounts, are you saying that they are all an hoax? Doesn't exist? The US Government has kept this in secret since the first wreck in New Mexico. I suppose the army personel there just decided to come out with information over the last years for the fun of it. No, they were scared for their lives. The government doesn't want worldwide panic. Since 2000, there has been over 10,000 pictures and videos of ships and beings. I reckon they all got together and decided to play games with everyone. Why do you think the ancient civilizations drawed them in caves and pyramids? Because that is what they saw. They had no reason to lie. They wasn't doing it for attention or money. They didn't draw them for the fun of it. They drawed what they saw. That is solid proof. Proof is all around. I guess you don't believe that dinosaurs roamed the Earth, millions of years ago? They did. The Earth is pretty old. Science and our technology has caught up with religion. The science is the proof, proven facts. There is evidence on Mars that the red planet hit Earth, thus, creating the moon. Without the moon, we would not be here. Life could not exist. Why did civilizations paint and draw alien like ships in their paintings? How did they know what they looked like? They knew cause that is what they saw. Thousands of years ago. We have been seeing these for thousands of years, if not longer. What do you think people are seeing in the sky? Nothing on Earth can travel that fast. If that was the case, they couldn't keep a lid on it. Why? Because everyone wants the power and the money. If they had something to travel that fast, they would show it off. Human nature. How do you see logic? Something that is logical? Makes sense. It does. It is common sense. I see it with my own eyes. Thats all it takes for me to believe. Aliens do exist. To many signs point to that. We all have to come to the conclussion that they are here and that they are around. Where did they come from? Nobody knows, but they are real. They may be among us as we speak.
If, Reason were the essential for Truth ... as is the case in your Belief ... Let me give you a Reason ... though,
I Believe, without Reason, or Proof ... Because, I Know, from my Book, all what I want to Know of the Reality ... Because my Book, Is, The Word of God. ... and His Word, Is, Truth ...
In the context of Extraterrestrial Life, The Lord Sayeth ... In Stae of The Worded Quran ...
"We have Scattered a sprinkling of Animal Life Forms ... throughout Our Created Universe."
The word in Arabic, for Animal Life Form, is "Dabbah" ... Meaning, Load Bearing kind of Animal ... like Horses, Oxen, and Camels... Therefore, I Doubtlessly Believe ... There is Life, out there ... and Know, what kind of Life is out there ... it is as intelligegent, as earth's horses and camels.
There are two more points, I want you to understand. The First is, the Mind's Power, to create Forms, while the Second is the UFO Phenomenon ...
Regarding the First ... I ask you ... Have you ever doubted, the Existence, of Forms ... faces, voices, and so many things you see, on the TV's screen ?
No ... you Accept the two dimensional Images ... as the Real Forms ...
Similarly, the Human Mind, creates Forms, but these are not the Two Dimensional Images produced by the Cathode Ray Tube ... but vastly complex, creation of Three Dimensional ... Real Forms.
The second is the Reality of UFOs ... The UFOs are a product of Electromagnetic Activity and the Mind ... and so are the Aliens ... Products of Matter and Mind.
In, that the UFOs are a Physical phenomenon, caused by Electromagnetic Activity of the Earth and Solar system, whereas the Aliens, are essentially the Mind's created Illusional Delusions.
Thus, in the Conventional Sense ... meaning, in terms of the Rational in Physical's Cognition, both the UFOs and Aliens ... do Actually Exist, one as a Physical Form, and the Other as a Delusion.
Just because I mention proof of another being, it doesn't effect my belief in religion and God.
Dont' let 'em get to ya.
Science CAN'T prove that gods exists or don't exist. Gods are, by definition, unprovable.
BUT! with that - if you can believe in an unprovable human-esque god, then you must understand why it is equally valid to argue that flying spaghetti monsters exist, and they control the cosmos with their meatballs and noodles.
Both claims are equally unprovable. Both claims are equally provable.
I accept the big bang theory (don't use the word "believe" please), of course. Why on earth wouldn't I, or anyone else? I rank the discovery of the big bang as the universe's origin to be one of the greatest every determined by science.
There are thousands of peices of evidence for this occuring; everything we understand of physics points to the creation and vast expansion in a short spce of time of the universe.
This is not just a quickly cobbled together as some of the posters on here are suggesting, but a theory built upon for almost 100 yers by the careful compelation of data from many different sources. Many on here are wilfully misunderstanding the term "theory" when used in this context.
This is the best and most enjoyable popular science book I've read on the subject; really well written - comprehensive, but not baffling! http://www.simonsingh.net/Big_Bang.html
It is possivle for both, Bible and Science, to exist together. It is all how you look at it.
Logic ... Distances ... Science ... from ... Belief.
For Reason, is Limited to Matter... and True Belief ... encompasses both ... Matter, and The Infinite.
I am Providing, the "Needed Bridge" ... by Defining the Truth of Existential Reality ... Truth, being the Common Objective, of Scientific Research, and a Reason Blinded Belief ...
I am showing, How Scientific Cognitions, essentially Follow a Parallel Course, in ... logical understandings, of Reality ... Science's efforts, however, are always towards Establishing ... The Truth, of Belief's Defined, Reality...
So far, Science and its Votaries, have only learned the hypocritical "Denying of ... The Truth" ...
The Truth ... that there indeed is a shining Sun, beyond the dark Clouds of Reason, and Rationality.
Personally, I prefer the Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy's version of the big bang theory.
I can't go with the BigBang-(Scientific Term) regarding the development of all things.
First of all what in all of creation could have contained all the forces we experience in this reality. We say one black hole has so much gravity not even sunlight can pass through it but this unknown something held not just one but all of them? One sun/star can turn land into melted rock but some unknow force was able to hold not one but all the suns/star.
Sorry the BigBang doesn't work for me.
There's belief - believing in something that cannot be verified.
And there's acceptance of fact.
and I quote "the universe forgets"
and "what is infinity to photons?"
by qwark6 years ago
What was the "medium" within which the "Big Bang" happened? There are other interesting considerations.
by vikrantdeadman6 years ago
vote---what do YOU believe in more, big bang theroies being correct or quantum mechanics rules?? einstein on bohr??
by uncorrectedvision5 years ago
As I understand it, everything did not exist at all a nano-second before the "Big Bang" and everything, absolutely all the energy in the Universe was in existence a nano-second after the "Big...
by Slarty O'Brian5 years ago
I'm interested in your thoughts. Not how. I'm not interested in the idea that a god did it or not. I am interested in your thoughts on why there is something instead of nothing.
by Csaba Krause4 years ago
During my 10 years' career being a journalist in the heartland of real science (which is Europe), I had the fortune (misfortune as well) to meet great many renowned scientists. I interviewed a couple of them as...
by janesix4 years ago
The Big Bang is a religious concept, not science. It takes faith to believe that it happened. If you believe in the Big Bang, why?
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