I am in the health care field. Yesterday one of my patients served in the German army. He was a fairly high ranking individual, a Colonel.
I have assisted in surgical procedures on convicted felons before. One such patient was a rapist and a murderer. As a health care provider we take an oath of sorts to help all patients, whoever that maybe and for whatever problem that may involve. But this one patient gave me pause. Then I got to thinking, was role did a German army soldier played in WW II. Can anybody fill me in on this? Cause I am feeling bad about how I felt about this man and I am wanting to know if my worries are warranted. Thanks
I don't think this soldier is one of the most wanted ones or he would not have told you that tidbit of his past. I believe he fought as did we for a government that drafted his services. In Scripture the people designing the war were the ones that were the responsible ones. I think you should love on him and tell him about Jesus. Don't worry God's got your back. Love ya. Bob.
I'm surprised you got to know his past - how did that come about?
He um disclosed that he was a Retired Col. I said, "Oh really well thank you for you service." His daughter then said, "No he was a Col. in the German Army in WWII.", and started laughing a little. I said, "So your father fought against men like my grandfather, an American Navy Aviator?" She looked at me, and silently said, "I guess." She then asked him how long was he a German solider. He said, "Tell 1946, when he left Germany." I said, "My grandfather was wounded during that war." I looked at his daughter, and I then said, "Well Mr. such and such, I need that x-ray before we get started."
Are you saying that this man actually was a soldier during WWII? or has he been a soldier since that time? Either way, I'm not sure the answer actually makes a huge difference.
There are still debates going on as to how much the average German citizen knew about what was happening during the Holocaust, and I think that applies to the soldiers too. Certainly, many (or all) of those who served in concentration camps knew of the horrors that were being perpetrated there. Those who participated in "relocating" Jews and gypsies and others knew what was going on.
But that may not have been true of the soldiers who were fighting on the battlefields (even including some of the officers). Many of them were "just obeying orders" and fighting for their homeland. The same sort of thing happens in every country, including ours. A soldier (even an officer) doesn't know all of the details of what goes on at other levels during a war; he or she is trained to obey his superior without question. We sometimes see instances when one has recognized that they are being ordered to do something immoral or inhumane, and they may question it or rebel; those instances are usually notable because they tend to be the exceptions.
In some of my German classes in college, the professor was a man who had ranked high in the Hitler Youth organization. There were times when it seemed so impossible that someone I knew, who was ordinary and slightly likeable, could have been a part of something so vile. One time we noticed him looking at a picture that showed Hitler during the later months of the war. The professor said something like, "You can see...you can see in his eyes.... He's already showing that he is going crazy." (I've paraphrased this. Some of the specifics came out in our questions to him.)
What I remember most about that conversation was the deep sadness my professor expressed. He was talking about a political leader who had started out seeming to promise something hopeful, and the promise had turned into a movement that is still the benchmark for horror in the 20th century. For him (the prof) madness was the acceptable explanation. For me, the whole story of Germany in WWII serves as a warning to the world about the danger of slippery slopes.
It's good to see you in the forums, IE. You have always started such thought-provoking threads.
what kind of man is he now? I think that is the important thing. Surely some of our American soldiers (some who were in Vietnam, for instance) have done awful things in the name of war. So the important thing with any human, is not so much what they have done in the past, in wars especially, but what they are now, what they do and how they have learned. He may be a very good and kind person now! I knew German man who had been a Nazi - god only knows what he actually did in those times, but as our apartment maintenance man, he was extremely kind and generous, so I was glad to be his young friend. As a nurse, you know that what counts more than anything is your own compassion.
Well put mega1 The present leader of the roman catholic church was a member of the hitler youth.
I know and that disgusts me...
No this guy was a German Soldier in WWII.
He had to know what was going on...
It was hard for me to be caring and kind. I wanted NOTHING to do with him. Helping him went against my grain. I didn't like it one bit. I didn't see a helpless old man, I saw a mass murderer! That didn't settle well with me. I wish that I didn't help him. I wish that he never came through our office door. If I ever see him again, I will relieve myself from taking care of him. As surgical assistants we have the right to remove ourselves from cases that go against the fibers of who we are. Some assistants won't do abortions. Some assistants won't assist rapists. Well this assistant is not going to help a mass murderer of God's most ancient peoples. I'm not. I have a problem with his past.
I have recently discovered a hubber here who is a history professor at a university. She has an excellent series of hubs on interactions between the American and German soldiers during WW11 and much, much more. She also has a series about Nazi concentration camps and what Germans knew or did not know about these camps. Her hubs are very well written and informative. I have learned a lot from reading her hubs (and comments) and am very interested in the topic also, as my father served in WW11. http://phdast7.hubpages.com/hub/America … n-Soldiers
I feel sad that it was hard for you. I remember once asking my dad about his experiences and he simply lowered his head, and said, war is hell.
It bothers me, because he essentially was a NAZI collaborator. Bottom line. I don't care if he killed Jews. His submissiveness and complacency, as with all the German people of that time frame, complacency; killed all those people. If you weren't in an anti-NAZI army, then you are guilty. Plain and simple in my book.
If someone was to come to me, and say Julie go shot your neighbor because he is Jewish, or Gay, or Brown, or Purple, or whatever..., or I will kill you and your family. I'd say no. No. They would have to kill me. I am not going to let my son end up being a murderer, or my husband either. Murdering on any scale, takes a piece of you and destroys it. I would not allow that to happen to my family. So I would say no. Get it over with it. I will not sell my family's soul to no one for nothing! You cannot comprise your integrity. It is who you are...
And nobody, and I mean nobody will shoot an innocent civilian (man, woman or child) in front of me and get away with murder. It is what we do in our final acts that define our life. I will gladly take a bullet for any man, woman and specially a child- if there is a possibly that it would soften the blow, stop the bullet, keep them alive, or be my final act of love.
A vast majority of soldiers who were stationed in concentration/extermination camps were actually Ukranian. Ukranians were very anti-Semetic and anti-Stalin and did enlist in the German Army. Yes there were many sadistic Germans who took part as commanding officers and regular soldiers who took part in these horrific camps. Just as you'd find sadistic Americans who wouldn't hesitate to do the same. Be very thankful for prisons. There were regular soldiers in Europe, both US and German, who took part in killing civilians and POWs . These were the days before CNN and the internet. It How do you know this old German soldier wasn't in charge of supply or communications and in the next room is a Vietnam vet who didn't shoot a bunch of Vietnamese civilians for sport?
It doesn't matter what he was in charge of... He allowed the ruthless concentration camps to continue if he was in charge of supplies, or communications. However, war is war I agree. But..., but they sought out war, created the war, and went out to conquer Europe in the name of Germany. In the Vietnam conflict, America was in no way wanting to call Vietnam "little America." We didn't start the Vietnam conflict. The North Vietnamese did when they continuously invaded the Democracy loving South Vietnamese peoples. Nobody, as in German Col.s or German peoples were fighting against Hitler in 1933, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944... in the name of Democracy for all, get my meaning? Just ask Poland about how they feel about Germany on that issue.
The German's (the nation and its people) were on a crusade to eliminate Jews, Gypsies, Gays, Artisans, and non-Aryan peoples of Europe, the whole of Europe from their existence. There is a BIG difference between sport, as you so call it, and mass genocide and human slavery on a global scale. Big difference. Sorry, it's how I feel. You want us to compare 1 American soldier's stupidity and wrong moral conduct, to that of a nations? You want someone to argue against your ideology, of holding one solider accountable for his particular sporting activities (again your word), compared to a Nation's backed by its people..., deeds of condemning people for their Jewish birthright? One nation, as a whole implemented the death and killed over 12 million people based off the color of their skin, their hair color, their religion, their sexuality, their talents. The Jews didn't have guns. They didn't have an army, or a rebellion army to assist them. And, you want someone to make an argument comparing the actions of the German people and their complacency and active participation in the extermination of 12 million people, to that of an American soldier's action in the Vietnam Conflict...? Come on, its apples to oranges. It is not something that can be argued against. They are not equal acts were are speaking of. First of all, this is not about the Vietnam war or a Vietnam soldier. Who by the way, I have no problems with helping. Do on a daily basis.
Furthermore, in Vietnam (surely you know since you are making the Vietnam comparison) American soldiers were also fighting alongside other Vietnam soldiers. Who just so happen to be fighting for their freedoms, against a communist regime.
Mind you I am not a proponent of war. Not at all. I'm a lover not a fighter. But, to argue a police action/Vietnam conflict, where we the Americans sent hundreds of thousands of our own men to their deaths to fight with other Vietnam soldiers/people in the name of freedom- to the German Jewish Holocaust; in my humble opinion is extreme short sightedness, and an outlandish attempt to play philosopher over the war crime debate.
A philosophy that would also consider the Nuremberg Trials a blood sport too. Thank you but, as for myself, there is definitely a difference. The difference being, 1 soldier vs. the will, support and power of a NATION of peoples.
Here's a story for you:
One American loses his mind, and brutally rapes Christian women, because of the atrocities that he saw being played out on the women of Muslim faith in the Serbian conflict. It was his mission to force himself upon Serbian Christian women and make them pay for what they allowed their Serbian, Christian men to do to Muslim women and young girls. He was caught. He was convicted and jailed by his "American" tax-paying bosses.
Because that is not why American soldiers were finally sent over there. His mission, was his personal revenge and "blood sport game." However, it was not the American way, or overall mission. No- America went in to help stop the atrocities, only after watching years upon years of abuses, which were occurring on Muslim women, men and children on a minute by minute bases in that country. And, mind you we are a "Christian" nation at that. I think that speaks volumes to the overall moral standing of the American people.
Where no other European power would step in, here comes the might of the American people to help stop it. It was the will of half that nation to kill their Muslim brothers and sisters. However, it was the American will to stop the genocide. Ironically though, in Serbia existed several rebellious armies, fighting against the vast majority of ethnic-cleansing, power-thirsty, Muslim haters. Again, if you know your history, then you know full well that Germany in WWII, was not a nation in civil war. No. It was not divided in their causes. NO. They were very much united in one cause, Hitler's cause to kill the Jews. They were very much united. Men joined the German army in droves. To gain glory and to conquer. But also to rid Europe of Jews. To invade Poland and Russia. To take over France. Why? Why did they do that? I'll tell you why, to kill, kill, and kill people not like them. Yes, Germany was very much a united nation under that cause.
Sickening. Truly sickening... And I stand my ground. I will not put myself through anymore troubling headaches. I will not comprise my integrity for the mistakes made by a mad man in his younger days. I won't. I'm not.
I do not dislike this patient mind you. He was a lovely man. My grandfather walked with a limp the rest of his life after the war but, war is war. This old man's baggage is his comprised soul. No matter how lovely you might appear to someone, somethings you just cannot shake. I have prayed for this man. I have prayed for myself. His sins are not for me to forgive, they are of the Jewish race to forgive. And, well we all no that they are not too forgiving on that issue. Cannot say that I blame them. I'm glad it is not my burden to bear forgiveness for. I would have serious complications in forgiving such horrible crimes against my race and against another human being. Sure, are we all entitled to second chances? Yes. It just doesn't have to be on my watch. No. In my eyes, his crimes of letting it happen, will not go unnoticed. I have a skill. I am not obligated to comprise my abilities to help someone, when it comprises my well being. Bring me the other rapists, murderers, and abortion seekers. I'll let the surgical assistants that are willing to perform surgical assisting duties on child abusers and child molesters to deal with this old German man. The great thing about this world is that it does take all kinds to make it go around. Where someone falls short, there is another person to take up the slack. Its the American way. I will take up slack on the death row inmates side, and let someone else take up the slack on his end. That has become my final decision. I would be of no help for him, if my mind was only focused on what he didn't do for his fellow Germans as a soldier of Germany, than where I should be handing the scalpel to the surgeon.
Bottom line is it doesn't matter what this gentleman did during his service in the German Army over 60 years ago. Right now he is a patient and deservs to be treated like any other patient. The job of the medical staff is to treat him, not judge him. If a member of the medical staff refuses or neglects to treat him, they are not doing their job and need to be terminated and/or face lawsuits etc.
In the real world it doesn't work that way. Hello this is America. The land of choice and options!
I don't work for a state run institution. Thank God. Nope. We don't have to see anyone we don't want too. Its called private practice... I don't have to do nothing for this man... Nothing. And I am will within the lawvto refuse to help him. Its America baby. Let him go to a state run hospital. By all means he can take his Medicare and go, go, go. Not one single tax payers cent goes to pay my wages. Not one dime. So I don't have to do nothing for this man. I don't assist child abusers or Nazi supporters. My boss knows it. I am the highest ranked assistant in my office with those stipulations. One partner won't assist on abortions. It goes against her principles. So you are wrong! Sue me all you want but I have the right to have a choice in private practice
I'm not sure what this is in reference to. I simply tried to assist the OP in her questioning. She said: Then I got to thinking, was role did a German army soldier played in WW II. Can anybody fill me in on this? Cause I am feeling bad about how I felt about this man and I am wanting to know if my worries are warranted. Thanks
I led her to very informative hubs and voiced my sentiment. Now after reading more of her posts, I don't think she really wanted to hear anything contrary to her own feelings.
And my father did not serve in the European theatre. He served in the South Pacific. War is hell wherever it happens.
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