The Adjustment Bureau Movie (Explained)

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The Basic Plot- The Adjustment Bureau

In this movie, aspiring politician David Norris meets a beautiful woman. The woman’s down-to-earth attitude inspires him and revives his just-lost campaign to make him the favorite for the next election year.

However, the agent from the Adjustment Bureau who is supposed to delay him on a critical morning falls asleep sitting on a park bench. His job, had he been awake, was to cause coffee to spill on Norris’ shirt. When Mitchell fails, a double-whammy results. First, because he was not delayed, Mitchell arrives on time to his office. There, he interrupts the Bureau’s agents altering the decision mechanism in a leading partner’s mind. This will influence the partner to change his negative position and recommend investing in new solar technology. This technology is important to the world development plans of the Adjustment Bureau. Second, Norris “by chance” meets Elise on the bus.

Norris was never supposed to see Elise again. The agents do not want David and Elise to be together. They cannot explain why. However, it is important to them to block this relationship.

One of these men, the only black-skinned member of their lot, decides to help Norris. A meeting is arranged aboard a ferry boat. Here, Mitchell (note the last four letters of his name) explains who they are. Norris asks, “Are you angels?” Mitchell responds cryptically, “Some call us that.” Further, Mitchell says all members of the Bureau are exceedingly long lived. He also says that water blocks the powers of the Bureau members to know what is happening. Both these data points are teachings that sorcerers and New Age witches use to define demons. Carlos Castaneda was an anthropologist who studied with a Mexican Nagual, a “man of knowledge”, also called a sorcerer. In Spanish, these men were called brujos. They referred to demons as being very long lived. They did not use the word “immortal”, as a Christian would use in reference to angels and to fallen angels as well.

Does Hollywood have an Agenda?

Meaning at the Movies: Becoming a Discerning Viewer
Meaning at the Movies: Becoming a Discerning Viewer

Highly rated in reviews. A lot of truth in this one.

 
Mitchell tells David, "Some call us that" when asked if Bureau agents are "angels".
Mitchell tells David, "Some call us that" when asked if Bureau agents are "angels". | Source

Who are the Bureau Agents, Really?

On the ferry, Mitchell also tells Norris that the Bureau is run by “the Chairman.” Norris asks who the chairman is. To this, Mitchell says, “You have many names for him.” Evading the mention of his name is a trait attributed to the devil in European folklore. The God of Abraham, contrarily, has many titles, but just one name: Jehovah. A popular New Age teaching, which says there is one god, with many names, actually refers to Satan, not to Jehovah. The Chairman, in this movie, is a name for Satan. Mitchell and the others are demons, not angels.

The second major conversation between Norris and one of the agents supports this point. Thompson, a higher level demon, talks to Norris tempting him with power, success, fame and authority. At the same time, Thompson leads him away from Elise, away from love. This is a tool of devils. They offer riches, but do not want any person, anywhere, to have love, peace, freedom, hope, or faith. In this conversation, as we later learn in the second major conversation with Mitchell, Thompson lies to Norris. Angels do not lie.

The Original P.K. Dick short, "Adjustment Team" Download Now.

A Scanner Darkly
A Scanner Darkly

Philip K. Dick wrote "Adjustment Team," the basis for The Adjustment Bureau movie. He wrote many books on the same theme: Is life what we think it is?

 

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Further Discussion & Plots Revealed

In a second meeting, Mitchell tells Norris “that was us” in reference to the deaths of his father and brother when he was young. Mitchell says the Bureau wants Norris to be “empty inside” and that this will drive him to succeed. Of course, devils want the space in the heart of men reserved for the Holy Spirit to remain empty. Additionally, assassination is not a tool of the Kingdom of God.

To enter the realm of the Bureau, one must “turn to the left.” The left hand path is the term New Agers and Buddhists use to refer to the path of evil and darkness. A person must wear one of the special hats Bureau men wear (Cuban style fedoras), and turn the knob to the left in order to enter the realm of administration offices of the Adjustment Bureau. Those seeking God are told to walk the straight path, turning neither to the left or to the right. Men are told to keep their heads uncovered to meet with God (1 Cor 11:7).

At the end of the movie, David and Elise are trapped by Bureau agents on a rooftop. All the exits are blocked. Further, they previously ran out one of the doors, down the stairs, and back onto the same roof top in a kind of Escher reality. There is no escape for them. With no escape, each professes love for the other and they kiss passionately. Elise opens her eyes and sees the Bureau men are gone. This is further evidence that the Bureau are agents of darkness. They have been defeated by love.

Bureau Agents and Fedoras

Scripture says it is an affront to God for a man to cover his head while praying. Agents always wear their hats, even when they speak to the Chairman. Would angels do that?
Scripture says it is an affront to God for a man to cover his head while praying. Agents always wear their hats, even when they speak to the Chairman. Would angels do that?

Bureau Agents Share Traits with Demons

Another, more subtle, message comes to you in this movie: These largely unseen men serve to help you. Thompson, who we already know lied, told Norris that the Dark Ages happened because the Bureau adopted a “hands off” approach. Is that another prevarication? Likewise, World War I and World War II resulted from the free will and self-governance of men, Thompson declares. Is that true, or is it the Father of Lies at work?

Another popular cover story of devils is to say they are “aliens” from another planet. A few decades ago, they hailed from Mars and Venus. Today, we can see Mars and Venus. Instead, they now come from distant galaxies like Orion and the Pleiades. A shifting story like this betrays a lie. One of the burdens of liars is maintenance of a story. The Bureau agents share a trait with demons: a shifting story belies a con.

The story Thompson tells of the demons helping mankind is one many New Agers fully believe today. They believe that a war with a group of “bad aliens”, like Thompson, is coming. They also believe that a group of “good aliens” like Mitchell, will aid earthlings to victory. Another movie playing at the theater concurrent with this flick is I am Number Four. The movie I am Number Four also depicts the notion of “bad aliens” being overcome by “good aliens.” This story of bad aliens and good aliens is incorporated into many children’s cartoons and children’s movies. Likewise, you will see the notion of time-space doorways in these movies. The other idea prevalent in these bad alien-good alien movies is that the good aliens remain and set up a New World Order. In other words, movies are being used to format your thought so that you will be much more likely, almost guaranteed, to interpret planned events the way darkness wants you to- believing demons are angels!

At one point, the Bureau agents discuss the real reason David and Elise continually run into each other by "chance." This is because, in the original story, and in many versions thereafter, they say, David and Elise were supposed to be together. However, in the version written by the Chairman (Satan), these two were not supposed to be together. Who wrote the original plan? God did. God has a plan for my life, your life, and the life of everyone else, too. The devil has a different plan. God gave us free will. If we choose wisely, we choose God's plan- and find love as David and Elise did. Devils (Bureau agents) will attempt to ruin that plan. They will offer you a trade: success in exchange for love. The devils killed David Norris' father and brother before the movie begins. In the movie, they crash a car to block David from pursuing Elise. That is really how it happens. If you don't know how to pray, how to bind and break the works of the enemy, you need to learn. Look in the last section of this article for resources.

This movie is more than entertainment designed to detain you while corrupt thoughts enter in. It is a tool used to format your thinking.

Adjustment Bureau Review (Explained) - Video

Who is the Chairman in the Adjustment Bureau Movie?

Who do you think the Chairman is in the Adjustment Bureau?

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Who is the Chairman in the Adjustment Bureau?

Who is the Chairman in the Adjustment Bureau? I hope you guess his name!
Who is the Chairman in the Adjustment Bureau? I hope you guess his name! | Source

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Comments 167 comments

viewer 5 years ago

Very well writter and backedup by historical facts .


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Thank you, viewer.


Reader 5 years ago

It's been confirmed by George Nolfi (the director) that the chairman is God and the agents are angels. Sometimes people read too deep into a movie that isn't meant to be ambiguous. Nice points though ^^


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Reader, I don't doubt that the director may have made this statement. However, this interpretation does not make much sense. God wants Elise to marry the choreographer, Adrienne, whom she does not love?

God has a major emphasis on love:

1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. "

Proverbs 15:17 "Better [is] a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith."

Love is important to God. Scripture also says that those without love will not enter Heaven on Judgment Day. Whoever does not have love does not know God. God is love. God would not prevent men from attaining love.

God has always had one plan. He does not need re-writes. God can see the end from the beginning. He knows all things. On the other hand, not even Jesus, and certainly not the demons, know the "day nor the hour" of important events such as the return of Christ.

It is Satan and demons who must adjust their plan. God has no plan B. God's main plan works perfectly. Life is a good, good place for those who do what they are supposed to do.

"Submit to God and resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

I think I have a good argument here against the interpretation offered by George Nolfi. I am interested to hear any counter points.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Reader,

I did some more searching. Nolfi based the movie upon a novel by Philip K. Dick. The book is based on moments of near insanity when Dick thought he was possessed by the spirit of Elijah. Dick also doubted that reality is "real". Dick believed in some higher being communicating with him. This being he called "Zebra", "God", and also "VALIS."

If, in fact, the Chairman in the Adjustment Bureau is "Zebra-VALIS-god", we can be sure he is Satan, and his "angels", as some call them (mistakenly) are fallen angels, a.k.a. demons.


another viewer 5 years ago

Compelling but Satan wouldn't re-write the plan to accommodate love. As Mitchell says, it's all a test and one day you will write your own plan.

One more thing, the way this story was worked into film is makes the exact same point as the movie, "Legion" made last year.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

another viewer: I did not see Legion. I suppose now I will. Satan had not say in what David and Elise accomplished. Satan never wants any person to find love. He works hard to condemn people, thwart their right plans, and instead directs them to objectives. Pursuing great accomplishments, or any other thing outside God's will is a waste of life.

The Chairman only pretends to "allow" them to be together. The truth is, God said, "Let no man break what God has put together."

War and conflict between the forces of the Kingdom of God and the forces of darkness are conducted according to very legalistic rules. When there is "cheating", the enemy must pay a penalty. Notice in the movie that they had to receive special permission to alter things, or otherwise create "ripples." The ripples can alter the plan, yes. Additionally, Satan must gain permission to do what he does, and cannot exceed those permissions.

For example, in the book of Job, Satan goes to God to receive permission to test Job. After Peter denied Jesus three times, Satan went to Jesus and requested permission to "sift" Peter like wheat. Jesus denied the request. In Revelation, we see that Satan will be given permission even to persecute the saints.

Satan must operate within the bounds dictated to him. God is not bound by any word but His own.

Said another way: Satan must alter his plans when God's rules override his intentions. God holds supreme authority over all things and is not required to adjust for anyone.


Somebody 5 years ago

I do believe you have gone a bit overboard here. Also, david is told that his family passing was not the bureaus doing, and that it was chance


Ethan 5 years ago

I saw it from a completely different light. That being, that the "Chairman" was not Satan, but rather, God. He had specific plans for those people, and in the beginning he had paired the two (David and Elise) together. They met by chance, and chance kept putting them back together. The Bureau saw this fact as well, but did not have the understanding that David did, in that, they only had orders to follow. At the end, you find that the whole thing, was a test from "The Chairman" to teach as Mitchell points out, "Maybe the plan is for you to write the plan, instead of us writing it for you..." telling that yes, God did give man free-will, and that free-will is inhibited by many things, guilt, religion, pride, jealousy, all sorts of things. It was as though "The Chairman" said, at the end, "David, Elise, you were willing to die (basically) for what you loved, that being one another, willing to sacrifice everything just to be with one another, so, I will rewrite this plan..."

To me anyway, it had nothing to do with angels or demons, but rather reality, in that there are forces at work that guide us to our destinies, that destiny, however, is changed by our choices because of the fact that we do have a "free-will". "The Chairman" was standoffish throughout the whole thing, leaving the Bureau with the plan they were trying to cause happen.

Neither "path" was evil persay, but rather a choice that David and Elise had to make. They could each go their own way, and be fulfilled in their own personal life dreams alone, without each other, thus still having a pain of not having one another. OR they could choose to be together, and be fulfilled in their shared dream of a love relationship, however, they would have to give up their life dream.

Both choices involved sacrifice of important desires they both had. Both choices would be beneficial to others, and themselves.

I gathered this from the fact that in the bible, the "great men of god" so to speak, were called upon to give up much of their own personal wants and desires in order to fulfill a God given task, or destiny, for the greater good of humanity. To me, the Bureau's work was to see to it that the plan for David, and Elise, happened with no entanglements. Ergo, the idea of them being angels, to which they basically said, not that they were angels or possibly demons, but that David was being simple-minded when making that statement in the form of a question. Mitchell basically said, "You're looking at this in the wrong light...."

This is mirrored in the bible numerous times. The prophets of God were called to preach a message, thus severing nearly all ties to peaceable interaction amongst their fellow humans. Isolation. Paul chose to not be involved in any relationships, for the path for his life did not call for such a thing. Jesus spoke on this concept of giving up love relationships for the sake of a larger plan in Matthew 19, wherein he was asked by his disciples, "If the relationship of a man and wifeis like this, it is better not to marry."

To which he replied,

"Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

And, basically, that whole premise is all throughout the bible, wherein God calls upon men, basically, to deny their own desires and wants, in order to fulfill a greater plan.

That's what I saw happening throughout the movie. Thompson went so far as to tell David, "Look, this is where you are headed. That will not happen if you are with her. The choice is yours, help yourself, or help humanity.... which is the more noble of the two?"

David decided he would rather give up his lifelong dream in order to be with Elise.

Thompson informed him, "That's fine as well, but can you live with killing her lifelong dreams as well?"

Herein, David is a man with much information as to how things work. He has the choice to make, selfishly take this woman as his, thus killing his and her dreams, all without her foreknowledge, or give her up.

In the end, he makes his choice, but he explains to her what's going on and why he ran away.

Again, Mitchell states at the end of the movie, "Maybe the plan is for you to write the plan...." stating that The Chairman was testing even the Bureau, to see if they would get the message that when man makes a choice for himself, because he knows what he wants, and isn't confused anymore, and is willing to give up everything for what he wants, to simply give it to him and to stop interfering, because that man has freewill.

David and Elise were free from that point on to have the power of knowing that they indeed had freewill and could get whatever they were willing to fight for, be it love, or whatever....

Are you getting my point?

I don't understand why people see the need to "demonize" everything without truly looking at it.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Somebody, Mitchell tells David Norris that his father and brother were killed by the Bureau to create the "empty" feeling inside him so that the emptiness would drive him to seek satisfaction- by seeking public office. Regarding the death of David's mother later, Mitchell credits her death to chance, "That wasn't us."

So, the Adjustment Bureau does kill two of the four family members. "Chance" took the mother, and David remained.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Ethan,

Phillip Dick was taking pharmaceuticals. When a woman delivered a pizza to his house, he looked at a charm she wore, and began hallucinating. In those hallucinations (likely a demonic attack), he came to know "Zebra" also known as Vallon, also called by Dick, "god."

Phillip Dick believed it was god. Nolfi said the Chairman is based on Dick's character in the book: Dick's concept based on his hallucination-experience Zebra-Vallon-god.

People can read your post and read my posts, and decide for themselves who Dick's Chairman really is.


Ethan  5 years ago

Indeed, they can, and should. I believe you're missing my point entirely though, and seemingly on purpose.

Regardless of what one names God as, or how he is portrayed, He is simply who He is.... As he said to Moses. He did not give himself a name. He refrained from such a thing, finding it completely and utterly pointless. His name was not important. Letters put together to make a sound so that lesser beings (Man) could comprehend something spiritual, and bring it down to earth so that they could look at it.

He says to moses, "No, I will not give you a name, nor an image, nor a form, nor a similitude, nor any of those things of which I'm sure you will make an image of and choose to worship.... But I will tell you who I am.... I am simply, at the very core of my being, exactly who I am...."

So, honestly, when you look at that, for me anyway, I have to say that if God presents himself to a man, as a "Zebra" so to speak, it does not matter that the man did not use the correct name.... He acknowledges that there is indeed a higher power than himself, and comes to know both himself and this "God".

And honestly, it doesn't matter what one man was trying to portray, or his confusion in trying to portray it. What matters is that people are given a chance, an honest chance, to simply experience life, and make a conscious choice.

Not all things are good, but there is some good in all things. Not all things are evil, but there is some measure of evil in all things.

What is good, and what is evil?

I do not understand, yet I do, why certain people seem to desire to give power to these evil forces in this world, as I personally, in my honest opinion (Opinion now, not accusation, just my person opinion that none has to, nor should accept) that you are giving power to these "Demons" in that you acknowledge them, and speak of them as something to be feared.....

I understand the concept of a "demon" but I also understand the concept of "fear is a demon" and in fact, I find, that demons have no power over things unless one gives into the fear that they initially try to instill into people, and the reason they appear as these terrible creatures full of power and malice, is to do one thing.... Gain power of beings they have no power over at all.... They only have the power that you give to them, and you can only give them power through fear, because fear denotes worship, so technically, when you fear such things as evil and demons, satan, the devil, "charms", any of that sort of thing, you are not keeping yourself safe from it... You are not avoiding worshiping it.... You are giving power to it.

The bible states, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom"

Again it states, "If God be for me, then who shall be against me?"

I personally believe that the "devil" cannot deceive you, unless you are willing to be deceived. The fear of being deceived can easily lead one into being deceived.

If I tell you, "Watch out, the devil's after you" and you start freaking out, and you go lock yourself away and pray, and pray, and pray, and your fear consumes you, because you believed me to be some prophet, or a spiritual man with insight into certain things, you go on believing that indeed, the devil is after you, and thus, you give him an invitation to actually come after you, thus, one day, he shows up, or perhaps he doesn't. Perhaps you sit in that room for a long time cowering in fear, until you have to come out to get something to eat, and when you do, you eat, and are filled, and God speaks to you quietly and says, "Are you dead yet?" and you say, "No, of course not.. I'm sitting here eating, I'm looking at your beautiful creation. I'm enjoying life..." and he says back to you, "Then why did you let the devil deceive you into wasting your time locked away..."

I simply refuse to let fear keep me down, back, and away from anything, especially God, and the ability to see Him in everything, whether it appears good or evil, comes from good or evil men. If I believe that God is God, then I must believe (Logically anyway) that the devil is not....

Now, the question I'm posing is this, why do you feel the need to "demonize" everything?

Pharmaceuticals are not evil. They are just pills. Taking Pharmaceuticals is not evil, they serve a purpose. Abusing pharmaceuticals is not an act of evil, persay, but rather allowing pharmaceuticals to abuse you, that is evil. The same goes with Money, or Relationships, or anything of the sort. Any and everything has the capacity to do great good, or great evil, but only man has the free will within which to choose which of those two extremes he uses those things for.

I can run around afraid of everything, and experience nothing, or I can run around without fear, and experience everything, and know at the end of the day, live or die, existence exists.

Do not take this, my friend, as an attack on you, or your personal beliefs. This is not me arguing. This is me pointing out, and clarifying what I believe to be true. But more so than that, to point out this....

Spell the word "Believe" ..... now break it into syllables.... what's dead in the center?

So what is "belief" based on, when you look at it that way? What's it's foundation. And truth is what 51% of the people say it is. I have formed my beliefs on what I have experienced as real, and not on anything outside of that. I know what I know, and what I don't, is merely an assumption. I do however have to be cautious, as I know the reality of the fact that my beliefs can be formed based upon everything that I take into myself. Every word I hear or read, every sight I see, every smell I smell, everything I feel.

But I do know this.... If one wants to learn to ice skate, one must first overcome the fear of falling, and accept that one will fall. When one gets past this fear, they are free to skate, and free to fall, and one might just notice, that when they fall, it isn't as big of a deal as they "believed" it to be when first starting out, and that their fear was based on something they had not yet experienced. That one might have so much fun skating, that when they fall, they even laugh, even though it hurts each time, because they aren't skating to learn the art of falling, but rather are skating for the joy of the experience. Meanwhile, their dear friend will not join them, because they too, are as they were, too afraid of falling to try....


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

God has one name, and many titles. God does not refer to Himself as Zebra. The god depicted in this movie is not the God of Abraham.

Pharmakeia are absolutely evil. These are designed only to make you more sick. Do not be fooled by modern medicine. Look up the testimonies of Bill Schnobolen, an ex-satanist. One of the projects he worked in during his time serving Satan was the takeover of medicine, a plan in place for more than 100 years. Guess who built up the American Medical Association?

Here is an article about pharmakeia: http://calltodiscernment.blogspot.com/2009/11/bibl...


Ethan 5 years ago

Sigh... It matters not from what origin something came from, nor who messed with it, it matters what one does with it when it is in their possession.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

I just do not agree with your reasoning, Ethan. So, no matter who has a teaching of Satan, it only matters what he does with that teaching? No sense there.


Ethan 5 years ago

Lol, just nevermind. In the grand scope of things, I suppose my point, nor yours, has any meaning whatsoever.

It's all so trivial.

The movie was good, and interesting, and I personally got what I was supposed to out of it.


grophy 5 years ago

The Agency is Technocracy (New World Order greysuits), and the lovers (Norris and Elise) are awakening Sleepers. The "side effects" are Paradox effects which holds the agents back from casting vulgar effects which would render reality too much. The hat is a focus which helps the agent to cast effects. Read Mage: the Ascension. This film is about that!


Kelthar 5 years ago

I completely support the idea of "Man from Modesto", and I'm providing another argument :

If they were actually Angels, they wouldn't have to stop because of ripple effects, since they were actually doing the will of God. They were attempting to accomplish exactly what should happen. Not to mention they would have never caused pain to another man to stop David.

However, they are Demons. Why? If supposedly Satan has rules that he has to follow, so that God does not stop him, too many ripple effects would surely call the attention of God. That's why they had to stop and call Thompson, who supposedly would have a higher authority and could "extend" those rules more than the others.

But by the end, they reached the limits of ripple effects, and that was enough. God probably forced Satan to let them be together.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Kelthar,

Excellent rejoinder. James 4:7 says, "Therefore, submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you." By pursuing God's plan to put them together, David and Elise are submitting to God. Clearly, they resist the devil in the story line as well. So, consequently, the devil MUST flee from them (let them alone) as the power of the Word of God is backing the words recorded in James.


Benedicto Charleston III 5 years ago

If they were actually demons doing the work of the devil then there would have been no need for Norris to lose the first election in the very beginning. They would have made sure that the picture from his college prank never came out and that he won the Senate seat the first time.

In terms of saying what god and angels wouldn't do (ex. - hurt someone just to slow down Norris), read the Old Testament. Your "god" killed quite a few people in that section of the book.

All religions are made up anyways so this argument is irrelevant. All important events of the Bible can and have been disproven by scholars (including theologically oriented ones) and "god" was created for different reasons by different cultures as a way to keep order to ensure the survival of their group. As for the groups that believe in Jesus, he was nothing more than a great philosopher of his time who had the intelligence to win over the minds and believes of the Christians. A smart man yes, but the son of god... not at all.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Benedicto- one of the premises of my interpretation is that the devil is not the strongest force in the world. God is. Since Norris went for love, and that was God's plan for Norris, the devil could not overcome that. God's Word says "therefore submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).

Your rejection of Jesus is exactly what the Chairman wants.


Whatever 5 years ago

Matt Damon


Kid 5 years ago

Is there any explanation for the water detail?


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Kid, I believe the water detail is the case in the story where Mitchell tells Norris that water blocks the ability of the devils to "see" what they are doing. I have two thoughts on this:

1. Witches believe that a witch's or a sorcerer's power can be blocked, or at least frustrated, by crossing a river, or otherwise separating themselves from an attacking witch or sorcerer by a body of water.

2. In spiritual visions and dreams, water often represents the Holy Spirit. In the regard, devils are powerless against those protected by God. So, symbolically, Norris is being protected by the Holy Spirit when he is aboard the ferry, surrounded by water. There is a contradiction in this interpretation: the fallen angel Mitchell is on the ferry as well. The Holy Spirit does not protect devils. However, as in the Garden of Eden, a devil is able to enter God's place and tell lies in an effort to lead a person out of God's plan. The serpent did this to Adam and Thompson does the same to Norris.


Adam 5 years ago

First off, you are claiming an obviously huge contradiction... That the book is a retelling of a demonic hallucination, and at the same time a christian themed movie. The truth is here that you took something from this movie that almost certainly not there and ran with it.. And that's fine, because that's kind of the function of ambiguity in art. The director even stated he was leaving this ambiguious for this reason, and cut the scene where the chairman comes out and is a woman. He wanted it to fit various cultural concepts of god..

http://io9.com/5778984/whos-the-secret-chairman-of...

A prime example of this is your "proof" in that the directors muse was a psychotic break where he hallucinated what you are alluding to as pagan god's. The reality of the situation is he had a bad reaction to dental anesthesia and it cause a hallucination... a good twenty years after this story was written and published. The two events are completely unrelated, not just artistically but temporally!

Normally some one just running wild with interpretations of art I'd welcome the discussion on, but I really feel in this case your personal views are clearly reshaping the movie so far it's becoming unrecognizable.

The question is what's more likely... The writer of the original story claims his story's not about satan, and the writer of the movie screenplay and director says it's not about satan. But they are both lying about their intentions to subversively sneak in your image of God into a movie. -OR- The movie just has a different view of God then you do.

Seriously, stop trying to shoe horn random ideas to prove what you want to be there. "In spiritual visions and dreams water represents the Holy Spirit."

"The chairman only pretends to allow it" There is no reason at all in the film to believe the chairman was pretending to allow it, and at any point to imply some was "pretending" is tantamount to saying "The chairman was thinking the whole time 'I'm the devil!' " It's baseless unless you want to find some magical loophole to force it to fit your thesis.


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Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Adam, I am not saying the Adjustment Bureau review I've made is based on a Christian theme. It is widely confused as Christian. And, the story, as written by the author, is completely demonically inspired. And, that comes all the way through into the movie.

I understand director Nolfi is saying the Chairman is God. However, look at the evidence I have provided. Nolfi is either confused with the majority in understanding what was written, intentionally misleads, or is poorly informed about the nature of God.

Bill Schnoebolen appears a bit odd, yes. However, character assassination is so widely employed against whistleblowers and defectors from the satanic ranks that one can now almost conclude that anyone attacked viciously is telling the truth. However, reason and understanding must always be employed.


Friedrich Nietzsche 5 years ago

You're making up points that support your theory of the movie, but then turn around to say that the movie was not actually a Christianity-based movie. Quit contradicting yourself. It's people with points like yours that make me believe Christianity is growing more and more ridiculous everyday, but you believe that by arguing these points, people will join you. Hate to break it to you, but they won't. You're pushing people away.


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Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Nietzsche Imposter: The contradiction you suggest is a fabrication of your mind. The movie is not based on Christianity. The director thinks it is. It is not. The Bureau agents are demons, working to ruin not just the lives of individuals like Norris, but also working to elevate individuals like Norris to positions of power in order to ruin the lives of nations and the world.


mr. magoo 5 years ago

I think that the "chairman" is GOD! The Agents is angels sent to our planet in the movie to guide us and lead us in the right direction.


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Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Mr. Magoo,

It is possible to know God. It what He wants. The God of Abraham does not do the kinds of things the "Chairman" does. God's Word cannot be broken. God does not need alternate plans. He always wins.

Movies like this are meant to confuse those who don't study to show themselves approved. Your problem is, you don't study the scriptures. Otherwise, you would not be fooled. I hope you will see out God and learn to discern what is God and what is not.


Fan 5 years ago

I have a question though. At the end of the movie, thompson has David and Elise at the top of the building. This is his oppourtunity to separate them. However, mitchell states that the chairman has a "new plan" that will allow them to be together. If the chairman was the devil why would he allow them to be with each other?


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Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Fan,

The devil has come to steal, kill, and destroy. He wants to destroy every good thing in the lives of David and Elise. And, he wants to destroy many lives by putting an unhappy David into political power.

Too bad for the devil, David and Elise find love. Love is the greatest power on earth. The devil simply could not break it. The Chairman simply pretended that he made an allowance to permit it. In reality, the devil has no choice when people claim and take action to keep what God has given to them.

Adam and Eve believed the devil and lost what God gave them: the Garden of Eden. David and Elise believed in love and refused to release it, and fought to keep it. The devil could not overcome that.


The Chairman 5 years ago

OK, so this trying to dissect a movie based on your religious belief needs to stop. This is not a christian movie, it's not based on any fact other than "the chairman" is a deity that created man and pushes people towards the plan he has created for them. The term "satan" or "god of abraham" should not even be brought up. Mr "Man from Modesto" you really should keep your preaching in church because it doesn't apply to this movie in any shape or form. Honestly you didn't do any good from this. You are just a bible thumping tool that pushes your religious values on people....


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

The Chairman- My father in Heaven is real. Angels are real. Fallen angels (demons) are real. The war that is on is for YOUR eternal soul, and the billions of other souls on this planet. Right now, Satan owns you.

Movies like this one, Harry Potter, and most others are designed to make you think they way Satan wants. Have you heard of the Illuminati? Bohemian Grove? The Down Low Club in Chicago? Skull and Bones? God said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

Need evidence of God? Look at the war going on right now. It is all around you. Amazingly, you have missed it! You are a casualty of the most important war ever waged: the war for your eternal soul.

What about all those people reporting a "near death experience"? What part of them went on the journey? Answer: their soul. And, their souls are eternal.

What the Adjustment Bureau leaves out is that, in exchange for all their assistance, the fallen angels ("some call us that")receive a right for the soul of the person helped. Even simply choosing their story (a lie) over the truth: God in Heaven, salvation through Jesus alone, gives the devils the right to your soul. You belong to the kingdom whose laws you follow.


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Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Quick note to all those who think this film is about God, and the Chairman is God:

Your problem is, you don't study the scriptures. The Chairman's activities and authority do not match those of God, they match those of Satan.


M.W.E. 5 years ago

I read the scriptures on a daily basis and have i have come to know is something completely different then what you say. I believe God is Love and that he wants us to know him. However, seeing that he is God no one not even Satan can undermine what God chooses to do. He is God, Satan is not more powerful then God. There for if they were demons governed by Satan then they would never have succeeded. Also Satan does control the world we see but not in the way you believe Man from Modesto. The truth is God has given us free will and we use that free will to choose wither or not we want to serve him. So this whole idea that this movie is about Satan controlling man or God controlling man makes no since because If God wanted him to be President then he would be, If God wanted him to be with the women he would. Nothing Satan could do would change that. So my point is that this movie was trying to show us that we have free will to make our own decisions. Also this is the directors interpretation. So who are we to tell him that he the movie is not base on God. If he wanted this movie to be about him then that is his opinion of God...it might not be accurate. This seems to be an incorrect view on God and being preordain to do something based on a "Plan". Truth is the point of free will that god has given us completely destroys the idea of have a preset plan. Even Jesus had a choice to serve God or do an Act of worship to Satan. Like wise with Adam and Eve, they both had a decision as to wither or no to serve God. I think people make a big deal about things when they shouldn't. This is a movie...just enjoy it for what it is. Wither it is correct or not...EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION TO MOVIES!


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Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Hello, M.W.E.,

You are the kind of Christian I just do not like at all. So, you read the scriptures daily, eh? So what? The Holy Spirit is our teacher, not the scriptures. Satan quoted scriptures to Jesus, but he didn't understand that Jesus would die to Redeem all who believe and turn away. By killing Jesus, Satan gave the power of salvation to the world.

Here is something HUGE you seem to have missed in all your daily scripture reading: God gives permission to the devil to destroy things in the earth. If the devil can't do anything, is it God starting all the wars? Was it God who sacrificed babies in the fire? Was it God who caused Aaron to build a golden calf?

The God who is a loving god only, and NOT also the God of Judgment is a fake god. If that is the god you trust for salvation, you are in BIG trouble. What does Jesus say to some who fully expect to enter Heaven at Mat 24? "I never knew you." It is about personal relationship, not knowledge, and certainly not incorrect knowledge.

But, I can tolerate all that. What I HATE, and rightly, is a person who does not know God at all, nor Jesus, and stands up and dares to tell others that his own fake god and love thereof is the real thing. I absolutely detest it. What do you think God thinks of it?


M.W.E. 5 years ago

Man I agree with most people are contradict yourself so much! This is what you have said "But, I can tolerate all that. What I HATE, and rightly, is a person who does not know God at all, nor Jesus, and stands up and dares to tell others that his own fake god and love thereof is the real thing. I absolutely detest it." Except that is what you did at the very beginning of this post and have been doing to every single person who responds to it. You have none stop been trying to prove your point and your are one of those ignorant people who cant see truth in front of their own eyes. This whole post wasn't to express your interpretation of the movie it is to force it down peoples throats and to force your contradictory beliefs. This will be the last post i put because you don't seem to listen what anyone has to say, and you are are mistaken in so many things you say and refuse to listen to anyone else but yourself! It is truly sad!


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

M.W.E., So, your rebuttal is that I should bend the truth if many people reject it? Unlike you, I do not walk on the wide road. When a person stands for truth, the darkness will hate him. Jesus continued to speak the truth, as did John the Baptist and the disciples (except Judas Iscariot). All of them were persecuted and killed.

The interpretation of the film in the article is correct.


Name 5 years ago

How could they be demons and Satan if you claim love and God conquers all? The chairman changed the plan and if he's Satan why wouldn't he just reset them both? No, the demon theory is completely off, the God theory makes more sense but still is contradicting.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Name: There is no real contradiction in your assertion. David and Elise followed love, and so the won because they believed in love and did not follow the devil's plan. They followed God's plan for their lives- to meet and marry, and to be happy. Happy people create happiness for others because they value it. The devil hates that, and works hard to destroy it.

The devil is allowed to challenge and test us when he has permission. Satan even tried to tempt Jesus, but failed (of course). The devil was successful in redirecting the course of Adam & Eve's lives- and they walked regularly with God and spoke with Him in the Garden of Eden.

Once someone has passed a test in a certain arena, the devil will give up for a while- but will try and try again. He especially hates love and helping others- in Christians or Buddhists or Muslims... Satan hates love, and wants to break it when he can. James 4:7 says, "Therefore, submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you." Stick with God's plan, refuse to let the devil redirect you or delay you, and the devil will stop wasting his limited resources... until you let your guard down...


Ricky Gervais 5 years ago

There is no god, devil, demons, angels or witches, end of discussion.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Ricky: millions of satanists and hundreds of millions of Christians disagree with you. Ask yourself, why do you really hate God? Who offended you? It wasn't God. God loves you. Remember: God loves you. It hurts him that you pretend He does not exist so you can avoid something. What is it?


Sheesh 5 years ago

Man from Modesto, you are quite a narcissist.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Sheesh: Do you know what that word means?


Greg 5 years ago

The writer is correct in his argument that these characters are similar to demons- including the fact that they often are cloaked in black and wear what looks like derby or top hats. The script writer certainly did his home work, because not too many people know those things. But the REALLY diabolic thing that is happening here is this- the story is woven to convince the viewer that they are watching angels and that the "chairman" is God. THIS is why most posters dissagree with the writers view that they are demons. In real life, many thousands have seen these beings dressed this way. Make no mistake- they are not your friends. Rebuke them in the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ and they will flee.


Aaron 5 years ago

It is a movie, a very good movie in fact. Stop the bible thumping and enjoy it for what it is. If you think this is about demons, you must of also thought the rapture was really going to happen. Jesus live life don't go over thinking everything. Demons lol and the devil made Foos ball.


Steve 5 years ago

Oh come on. Wayy over thinking and obviously you are a religious freak who can barely tell what reality is in your life. Never mind the movie and your crazy, one sided review, you need help in real life! I'm aggravated just from reading what you perceived the movie to be based upon. I just watched it for the first time and I really did enjoy it. But after reading this review and being so annoyed by it, it makes me never want to see this movie again! Get a grip on reality pal!


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Steve: Check out the "Resources" block below the comments. Anger over reading an article? That can very well be a demonic influence. Demons make people angry to block them from every understanding about Jesus, or how to live a life free of them. Look at how they manipulated and controlled David Norris. Scripture says those whose lives are corrupted hate the Light. " For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

Basically, the person who is living the wrong way (according to God, not Hollywood) will "hate" (i.e. become "aggravated" or angry) the Light. When I first began to read what God says in scripture, I also did not like to hear it! I was living wrong back then.

I hope you will be set free and you can get a controlling grip on what is real, and what is from the devil.


TruthSeeker 5 years ago

I have read most of the comments on this post and have yet to see anyone fully and clearly prove the Man from Modesto's point wrong. He is not contradicting himself. Everything he has said makes sense and fits into place if you paid attention to the movie and its themes and have some knowledge of scripture and also of how the occultists' think.


thetruthisoutthere-wheredidiputit 5 years ago

wtf, this is a movie based on a short story by a "SCI-FI" writer. what's wrong with you people!!!


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

TTIOT-WDIPI:

Here is what I posted 7 months ago:

Phillip Dick was taking pharmaceuticals. When a woman delivered a pizza to his house, he looked at a charm she wore, and began hallucinating. In those hallucinations (likely a demonic attack), he came to know "Zebra" also known as Vallon, also called by Dick, "god."

Phillip Dick believed it was god. Nolfi said the Chairman is based on Dick's character in the book: Dick's concept based on his hallucination-experience Zebra-Vallon-god.

The genre to which Dick categorized himself does not alter the influence of a supernatural reality which Dick converted into his story.


thetruthisoutthere-wheredidiputit 5 years ago

k! got mashed... saw god... wrote fictional story... discuss:)


SupaVal 5 years ago

You can take any movie, any movie you want and make it mean anything you want it to mean by over analyzing it. Which is fine if that's your thing, but why bother? This is a movie, it's not real! If you believe this or any other science fiction movie and is going to turn someone to a life of satanism, then you are delusional.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

SupaVal: You are exactly wrong on this one. That is EXACTLY the purpose of Satanists: to frontload people to accept things like star gates/ time-space bridges/ worm holes/ Einstein-Rosen bridges.

And, they want people to believe that an intergalactic (us vs. space aliens) war is coming. Those "aliens" are really demons. There will be no true friendlies, like the autobots. The truth is, they are all deceivers and con artists, all demons. They are all Deceptacons.

When Mitchell tells Norris, "Some call us that." He is opening a door for Norris to falsely believe they are angels of God- in good standing. They once were, but now are not.

Some in this world do, in fact, mistake demons for angels. "If the light you think you have is really darkness, how deep is that darkness indeed." Some are deceived.


Dr. Sam Paulson - College of the Holy Cross 5 years ago

Honestly, I feel the vast majority of your conclusions are utterly fallible at best, but not entirely. There is certainly room for the potential that the agents were "demons" and that the "Chairman" was in-fact, Satan. Quite a bit of room actually. Unfortunately though, your entire synopsis is based upon what seems to be the Bible or Scripture which is utterly fallible. The Bible is not the word of God, nor is it the culmination of the teachings of Christ. Religion like the Bible, is a creation of man, twisted and turned and molded with the image it's authors were attempting to portray. Religious canonical devices and nothing else.

Now am I saying God the Holy Creator is fallible? Most certainly not! However, had your review been based upon theological insight and study it might have been far far more accurate as you are missing quite a bit. Before you go about quoting a scripture passage... I should remind you, or perhaps inform you is more accurate, that the New Testament alone for example had over 3,000 books as potential candidates at one point. Others that were excluded by human evaluation and human judgment leaves you with the current KJV as canon.

Perhaps you'd like to rewrite your review using theology as a basis? I'd certainly like to read that.


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Man from Modesto 5 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Sam, It is interesting to me that your conclusion seems to be "I am smarter than you because I am a theologian and you just read the Bible". It is appalling that you have trashed the Bible in order to make the (fallacious) point. I understand you to mean that everything they taught you that the Bible means over in the CATHOLIC (which means universal, as in all things Christian plus all things pagan mixed into one) teaching system is superior to what the Bible actually says because the writings of Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Solomon, Jeremiah, Daniel, Isaiah and others are fallible, whereas your degree ("Doctor" Sam) is NOT fallible.

Take a look at your post. Why should I see anything but a man blinded by his denomination?

As for me, I will continue to read scriptures and to seek the Living God, the Holy Spirit, to tell me what it means. Scripture itself says it is not open to private interpretation. The Holy Spirit is our teacher, and we should call no other man (or collection of professors) our teacher.

Psalm 118:8 "[It is] better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. "


Adam 4 years ago

People like you are what is wrong with religion. Believe or burn. That's your motto, right? I'm not even going to try and say anything to change your mind. I could write you a novel and not one word would get through to someone like you. The poster above was exactly right. The kjv bible is a complete fabrication. It is in no way,shape, or form the word of good. The only text i've ever read with more contradictions than the bible are your posts.


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Actually, it is GOD who says that Jesus is the ONLY door. It is not any particular religion. It is the blood of Jesus- only. I hope you will do some research and see what scripture says. Those who want you to believe it is all worthless are the same who want you to go to Hell. It serves their master.

I am not asking you to believe me or any other person. I am asking you to believe the Word of God. Peace.


Aaron 4 years ago

I have been confronted with a lot of facts during my reading of this post and I must say that yes this is a movie and we should all just watch it and enjoy it...but I feel that the man from Modesto is correct, but is it really right to say that the devil try's to force you in to turning from god? No, for he only try's to convince you to turn from god, a wise man once told me that you brain is like a bunch of wires put in order exactly how god wants it to be so that your on the right path and the devil comes into your brain and try's to rewire...and as for the bible being fake or what ever, I don't think so,


??? 4 years ago

If the director says the chairman is representative of God or a Higher power, where is there room to interpret this movie in any other way. That and I would like to add, the bible and religion in general is a creation of man. Quoting the bible, a work of fiction created by man, is silly.


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

The people who say, "The Bible is a work of fiction." Or say as a catholic M. Div. recently wrote in a comment, that "it has all been manipulated and is worthless," such people are deceived.

The Bible is a compilation of letters, testimonies, official state records (e.g. 1 Kings is a book of the acts of the kings of Israel), and first-hand accounts written by the people who walked with Jesus. To deny these historical documents - which are more greatly verified than any other document in history - is far more stupid than saying the Beowulf story was printed last year, or that Egyptian hieroglyphs were produced by Nazis during their occupation there. Those two statements seem utterly ridiculous to you, I hope. To anyone who has taken responsibility for what they believe instead of yielding blind faith to people just vomiting what they heard somewhere, or who believe something just because someone printed it, to those of us who actually research and study, we only see who boldly arrogant and mislead you are.

The Bible warned that deceivers and liars would come and "deceive many". You are one of the many. I pray you will be released from the bondage of lies. -MFM


The Realist 4 years ago

I think the adjustment bureau agents is your(David Norris) conscience telling you what to do from the goals you set in life and the influence by the people and things around you. As we all do , we come around something or a situation that is referred to as bad or wrong when we get the feeling that it actually feels right. So when David Norris decided to go on with what he thought was right the plan changed, cus he is the chairman all along. Showing that we as people have the free will to do what we want and not restricted to following the ideals that the medias and other influences say.


thetruthisoutthere-wheredidiputit 4 years ago

Ace:)


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

ttiot-wdipi: That is an interesting interpretation, one of the better ones. I suggest to you this: each of us hears the call of the flesh (power, money, prestige, women) and also the call of the heart. If David himself is the Chairman, then would the "some call us that" angels be components of David's own psyche? Why did David have to go through "doors" to get access to the Chairman's lair?


paul 4 years ago

It´s true! Whole hollywood is satanic, here is proof that the chairman is to represent Satan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoM1gvwIjko&feature...

look about at 6min30s. It deals with new age and stuff...

Be warned!


dave 4 years ago

@ man from Modesto(be patient english its not my native language)

real story you got here i read it and got me thinking for sure. but to see how you keep pushing it and refused other people comments it makes me believe that your are just a fanatic one of those cray religious nut jobs that are looking for devil on every single thing. i wasn't able even get to the end of the comment list as i kept reading you come across crazier and crazier

p.d. if your goal its to spread your message. cool it a little bit and embrace other people opinion as well so you don't loose credibility


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Dave, I always appreciate the comments of others- as long as they are seeking after the one true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Not the moon god, not the god of Ishmael, not any kind of fake jesus who is brother to satan, or who is only a prophet, not the Son of the Most High.

All other comments are the work of Satan. Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." Without Jesus, there is no admission to Heaven. Jesus is THE ONLY way to God. Jesus himself said he is the son of God. Many others knew he is the Son of God.

Others don't seem to care if they are deluded (and on their way to Hell, if they don't turn to Jesus." It seems you belong to this unfortunate group. All others seem to be telling you that mixing idols into your belief system is okay; that allowing the devil to run amock in the Harvest is okay. God does not agree with that.

Who desires to be right with God must believe GOD, not man. I hope the Truth will set you free.

I have this word for you from the HOly Spirit, "I know you. I have not yet called you. But, soon you will be set free."

Sincerely,

MFM


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Mv,

The OT and NT in the Bible do not contradict each other. There is a very consistent message: Love God above all other things with all your mind, body, and heart; love others as yourself; believe God and follow him before you believe what men say... and many more which really reduce to the first two.

Since you are crediting knowledge and deliverance from ignorance to Satan, and accusing God of being evil, who should I think you are following? You need to find out what God Himself actually is saying to us. Get a Bible and read it yourself. Start in the back, with the book of John. It is a collection of historical accounts, the prophecies of major and minor prophets, and letters written by the disciples of Jesus to people they were helping. Written by them, during their lifetimes. Promotion of the Bible as being a bunch of lies (both by atheists and the catholics) is simply this: disinformation spread by haters of God.


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Bobby, I did not approve your message. In it, you repeated many untruths. Christians do not fight and kill. Jesus said, "If my kingdom were of this world, my people would fight." But, His people did not fight. The Crusades, no matter what the Crusaders called themselves, were NOT an act of Christ. In fact, the Crusades were ordered by Rome. They sacked and destroyed Constantinople, a Christian stronghold. It was the last thing preventing Islam from entering areas north. The Crusades made ship builders and merchants wealthy. Nothing new under the sun.


MFM knows his stuff 4 years ago

Just read the post and all the comments. MFM, you seem like a smart, informed Christian. I'm a Christian myself, and I hope to one day be able to defend my faith the way you do.

Also, you really have a good point suggesting The Chairman is Satan, but I'm not sure if it matters one way or another; it's just a fictional story. I appreciate you using the issue of The Chairman's identity to discuss spiritual warfare, however. That is a creative way of sparking conversation with people over the Internet, who presumably did a search for "adjustment bureau meaning" and landed here. Great ministry tool.


Power 4 years ago

Some really interesting stuff here, I realize that many of you may well be better informed than me when it comes to history and theology but my understanding is this:

A film can never explain the mysteries of spirituality,

because they are more complex than we can even begin to comprehend using our own reasoning and experience.

The Film simply demostrates some overall truths and fills in the blanks with "entertainment"

So what are the truths that the film portays?

1. God has a plan for your life. Jeremiah 29:11

2. If you want something (in this case love,) then asking God, and showing your willingness to work for it means God will grant it, as long as it is in line with his will (plan) Philippians 4:6

I think this will seem to many like watering it down but he have to bear in mind that for the film to be a good watch, it has to cut some corners and make some assumptions.

Perhaps the film is to make people ask: "what if"

And if through that 1 person finds Christ, then it was all worth it, however it came about.


Sean 4 years ago

Wow, that's a lot of hate coming from the original author. A truly horrid thing to witness when done in the name of god. Do you see what man's bastardisation and desperate need for clarification can do to a once beautiful message. It is truly sad. A message running through this is that evil cannot triumph over love. Try letting some into your heart brother. Embrace the message, done choke on the details.


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Sean, your point is not clear. It seems you are saying that this movie (an act of Satan through the author) is a "beautiful message". Which part is beautiful? Is it the the graying down of the difference between an angel and a demon so that people will be ignorant to discern the difference and fall for Satan's lies? (A major objective in a great many movies.) Is it the confusion added to the understanding of the nature of God, which we need in our personal relationships with Him?

Evil cannot triumph over love? Read Revelation. Evil will be given authority to kill believers. It is the ultimate test of faith: reject God and live in the flesh, but die eternally, OR die in the flesh, but keep eternal life.

The Adjustment Bureau is being effective against those who do not read the Bible, do not seek God, and have not received the fullness of wisdom they need.


Hookman29 4 years ago

Seans point is very clear MFM. He just pointed out that man still is struggling to understand what God really wants from us. And that there are people that will take Gods word and prevert it for their own ends, including those that claim to be spuritually enlightened.


Sean 4 years ago

My apologies for not being clear. The beautiful message I refer to is not that of the adjustment bureau. The message I think you've misunderstood is the message of Jesus. You've abandoned love. You're seemingly motivated by fear and self justification. I pray you find your way back to Jesus brother. Think about the things you've said. Do you really think or lord and creator cares for such idle debate over a piece of entertainment? I truly mean no offence, just please try and remember the place of love in all of this.


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Sean,

Thank you for your reply. The love of Jesus is not missed by me. This is NOT an "idle debate". Jesus himself came and told the truth. Many of the things Jesus said infuriated crowds to the point that they wanted to kill him. At the time God had appointed, they were successful.

In the Methodist church, and other churches ruled by the "World Council of Churches" (a global satanic movement), they teach that "no one has ever been argued into believing"- and therefore Christians do not need to argue, which is to present true statements contrary to false ones. That is a doctrine of Hell. Satan is the "father of lies" and a "deceiver". Jesus warned us, "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

Our job is very much to go out and warn people about the lies of devils. Jesus spoke one-third of the time about the things the devil does & will do. Why don't we?

Make no mistake- theater is a major vehicle for getting the people to do the desire of those in power (evil, crooked people, many of whom are satanists and most of whom hate God). Marketing gets us to buy their products. Front-loading programs us to interpret information in certain ways. How many movies- it might be more than 50% - have one or more phrases laughing at the idea of God?


Franky 4 years ago

Its funny hearing the lies...I mean word of god being spread. There have been thousands of civilizations and thousands of religions made up to explain the universe around them. Thankfully in the past few hundred years science has given us true answers as to why things happen instead of believing that the earth is 6 thousand years old or in the centre of the universe as the bible would have you believe.

The movie is a good movie. Not great but just good. It was made to make money for the studio and the actors etc. It's not the work of the hundredth "devil" that was made by man to spread bad thoughts or whatever.


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

There is NO SCIENCE whatsoever to support millions and billions of years. There is a mountain of evidence supporting an earth that is about 6,000 years old. Show me some proof, and I will show you how it is a lie, and intentional disinformation. Pick ANY PIECE OF "PROOF" you believe in.


Franky 4 years ago

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalrymple/scientif...

http://www.earthhistory.org.uk/questions-of-age/cy...

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-na...

Look mate I was actually making a joke. I didn't actually think there were people dumb enough to think the earth is 6000 years old. Even when there are civilizations that predate that??? Those resources took about 10 minutes to find but if you walk into a museum or read an encyclopedia you'd find the answer rather quickly. Saying there is no science to support that is like saying there is no maths to support economics. The idea is childish. Also there are geologists and other scientists that support and provide evidence for an earth that is billions of years old so you can jump on their bandwagon. Please don't reply with a bible verse or saying that god placed fake fossils or created rocks or meteors with age.


yuhhhh 4 years ago

man you must be crazy to take everything to biblical preportions

it is your opinion, but i believe they're not evil or demon-like, just kind of controllers of destiny, just carrying out like machines, which could be a reason why they have long lifespans, but nothing lasts forever.

to me it was more a movie about love, and makes me reflect on what i would give up to stay with the women i love forever.

it shows how when you find that special person, you'd give up being the president for her.

i hate to see what kind of life you have if the message you took from that was demons.


Wow! 4 years ago

I refuse to believe that you are stupid enough to think the world is 6000 years old. I simply refuse to believe it. I can maybe stretch far enough to believe that you are a fundamentalist (Although it's far more likely you just enjoy the attention.) and actually believe most of what your saying.

However, if you really think the earth is only 6000 years old, and that any of your arguments against the fact of that hold any weight. My friend, you need to see someone.

The film is a film. Good luck in the asylum.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

I believe in a 6000 year-old earth. I believe this based on the facts, not on the disinformation printed and propagandized by those who hate God. To simply refuse to believe what is plainly printed is just that- simple refusal. There is no science or reason, just rejection. I flipped through a Richard Dawkins book in the B&N today. Each chapter began with an attack on Christian beliefs like young earth and miracles. Yet, people want to believe it is science, and not God-hating. Guess what? It's God-hating, pure and simple.


Mr. Green 4 years ago

I am confused here. If this movie is a tool of the devil to format our thinking, why did love conquer the devil in this movie, if the devil is really the chairman? If we are not supposed to get that and believe God is the chairman we are persuaded to believe that God is affected by our persistence to seek love. That also doesn't seem to fit the devil's plan. Furthermore, it seems you're saying it is the devil that uses this movie as his tool and yet he apparently put in all kinds of hints (that practically only you are clever enough to spot) to reveal it is really about him and his demons. Is he that stupid? Wouldn't he be more successful not putting in those clues? Please enlighten me.


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Mr. Green: I believe your confusion rests in your not understanding this spiritual law: "a little leaven leavens the whole loaf." The devil knows this. He understands that showing a clear, 100% distorted message will result in massive rejection of the effort. So, the devil leads in small increments, and by adding just a little confusion, and just a little disinformation. He mixes this in with enough truth that those who do not seek God and do not read the Bible will be easily mislead. Scripture warns that those who do not study scripture can be easily mislead by every new doctrine that comes around.


4 years ago

You should watch the ending of the movie. Why would Mitchell say that even the Bureau itself is being tested also. The Chairman wants you to realize that even though he has a plan for all of us and we are bound by fate and our destiny, we have a choice of our own, our "free will" to do whatever we want. And because David and Elise fought for what they believe in and that no plan or fate or destiny can ruin what they have, they risked it and it inspired The Chairman. It inspired him to rewrite their plan at the end of the movie. The Chairman or God (so it seems) doesn't fully understand love, but is awed by humans passion for the love of another and the risks we take to fight for love. In the end of the movie, Mitchell states that these plans are there because humans are afraid to explore the outside world. Afraid to go out of their comfort zone or afraid to use free will "because they might screw up" (my own opinion), BUT if you open up your eyes and fight for what you believe in, learn from your mistakes and fight for free will, then these plans are not needed. You can begin to write your own path. It takes a strong free willed person to defy against god, knowing the consequences and believing He will forgive you, but in this case David did it for a good reason and The Chairman was inspired by that. Throughout the movie, The Chairman MIGHT have tested David and threw everything he had at him, but David was determine to fight for love (my opinion). That is why I believe The Chairman is God. I don't know how you could sit there and say the Chairman is Satan, when Thompson said that they had to jump in when chaos stirred up. The Dark Ages was on the horizon and they had to fix that. After the Dark Ages, they gave humankind another chance to rewrite history again, to make sure it never happened again, but war happened again. WW1 and 2. They came in and fixed it up (maybe Thompson is Satan, who knows). So why would The Chairman be Satan if he had to come in and fix humankind's mistake? Its your own opinion on The Chairman being Satan and I respect that, but what I don't respect is that while reading your comments to other people, you weren't open up to ideas and opinions of other people and trying, I'm assuming, to enforce Christianity is the way. God wants us to find our own path and believe in him while you do it.

Your stating that Christians don't kill or fight? You weren't alive thousands of years ago. Every religion has its fair share of violence.

The Illuminati, Bohemian Grove, etc. has nothing to do with this film. This film is to instill questions. To maybe have you open up your heart and eyes, is that, is this the path you want to take? Do you want to follow a religion, an occult, pact, or whatever? And for your information, I don't read the bible. I'm a buddhist, but not a full buddhist. Therefore I am not mislead. I do believe there is a higher power out there. And I do believe there is god. And I do believe God wants me to follow my own path, but still believe in him. He, and this is my own opinion, is testing you. Testing all of us. Do you want to read the bible and teach people the bibles teachings or go out and teach people what you have discovered that the way we live is destroying both our world and each other. Do you want to make your life dedicated to a religion or do you want to dedicate your life to humans and bringing peace? I truly believe he wants me to follow my own path. And building my own path, comes with responsibility. Do you use your own path for good or evil?


Reality Check 4 years ago

I was interested in this discussion till I read you believe the world is 6000 years old. I can buy into religion and I'm not against the idea of a god but it will be on my terms, my label, not what another person has created. I feel many faiths have developed over time to provide comfort to those who need answers and there is nothing wrong with that. The human creation of religion is evident however when you see a statement saying the world is 6000 years old. Get a grip. The proof is there this is not true and you make a fool of yourself by not admitting this. Religion needs to modernise and start adopting science into its thinking. The world is millions of years old..fact. Is there a god..? I dont know... but I would like to believe that if there was he/she/it would be disappointed that somone would refuse to adopt common sense into their belief. Any god I decide to believe in would have to know the earth is well over 6000 yrs old.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

RC: Actually, all the evidence supports an earth that is about 6000 years old. Oldest desert: Sahara, 5500 years old. Niagara Falls is 3000 years old. Oldest coral reef: about 4000 years old.

What the Satanists do is this: They lie. They lie and say there are exactly 12 layers of earth, with the oldest being billions of years old. Charles Lyell made that claim in Stratigraphy. He told people at a cocktail party, and wrote in his own private journal that he LIED because he HATED Christians and wanted to debunk the Bible. Lyell mentored Darwin, btw. (Note also the 1st syllable of Lyell's name...)

It is good to seek God. And, it is good to reject any man-made gods. No argument from me. In fact, I agree. Instead, however, you cannot seek to find a god "on my terms" or according to "my label". You must seek to find the truth, the REAL God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the God of Salvation.

He requires that we meet Him on His terms, not ours. Should we expect something else?

Here are the terms God set forth: accept Jesus as the Redeemer, the one who paid the price for all wrongdoing. According to God's terms, this is the ONLY propitiation. Jesus is the ONLY door to God the Father and eternal life in Heaven.

Check it out, seeker.


Reality Check 4 years ago

Good comments. Although what about the other evidence, fossils millions of years old?


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

anthropologists date a vase, wood carving, or bone according to the date assigned to the layer of earth in which they find it.

Geologists date the layer of earth according to the age of vases, wood carvings or bones (etc) found in that layer.

Seem circular? It is!

The whole dating mess traces back to: Stratigraphy, the lie created by Charles Lyell.


SCott 4 years ago

The meaning of the name "Elise" is "My God is a vow". Woh


david 4 years ago

david means beloved and elise meaning my god is a vow.


Nick 4 years ago

"assassination is not a tool of the Kingdom of God" .. except that whole Jesus on the cross thing, I'm sure that was part of the plan...


Tired of Argument 4 years ago

I think the fact that two people with completely opposing views, can argue their side both quoting from the same book, (The Bible) proves that the bible is open to interpretation, and that neither side can claim to be right or wrong. Kinda like the film...the fact one of you can argue the chairman is the devil because he is known by many names, and the fact the other can argue that the chairman is god because he has many names, and you can both use the same book and the same religion to argue your point proves that its ok to have oppinnions and get different experiences out of the same events...


Little Child 4 years ago

Just saw the movie and was searching for meaning or in-depth thought into this interesting film. I must say thank you for sharing your viewpoint, a very good read.

Now, I was thinking to myself: What if the entire point of the film is to show that we do indeed have free will as bestowed on us by God, but the forces of evil try to mould us into their various forms through the various manifestations of evil around us. The love displayed by David towards Elise is analogous to the love Jesus showed for us on the cross... Although the devil has a plan for us 'in hell' as seen through their little notebooks, we should not merely follow what seems to be the 'logical' decision in our lives but with a conscious heart an mind embrace the will of God and serve him, not merely following patterns and so called trends as displayed by David.


Little Child 4 years ago

To the man who said "the film is just a film"

Au contrare, everything has meaning behind it. This film is a work of art: tantamount to a book, a painting or whatever genre or form you choose. Yes it is open to interpretation, but to believe that is merely pictures moving on a screen is simply vapid.


jim bo 4 years ago

You keep saying that jesus is the only way to god and all other methods (ie religions) are wrong, but have you considered that other religions say the same? They claim their religion to be the only way to god in the same way you claim jesus to be the only way to god.

Another point, have you considered that if you were born in china, for example, you would have a completely different belief system? You would believe a totally different set of beliefs purely because of geographical location.


Daniel 4 years ago

With the belief that all science is false and only 1 book is true, then yes your beliefs and theories are completely sound. But an educated person knows better. I use my "god given" free will to not believe in him/her. Before you start going Dr. Phil on me and blaming someone for me not believing in god. I am a man of logic and there in NO proof of god and A LOT of proof debunking it. For all we know, the bible may have been the first science fiction novel ever written and then some crazy guy ran with it like you did with this article. You don't know and neither do I. To each his own and because I used to be christian I know it is not very christian like to push your beliefs on others (That's what started the crusades ;) ) Keep your opinions to yourself and if you must, pray for the people you think may be going down the wrong path but don't you dare think that you know all. I'm not saying your wrong because I don't know but look at it this way. Even a crazy err.. I mean broken clock is right twice a day.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Daniel,

You claim that an "educated person knows better" is poorly supported by your pop culture "facts". It is popular amongst a certain group of people whose arrogance permits them to assume that everything about them is better than everything about everyone else. Since they went to college, college is the best life plan, they believe.

For example, you attribute to me the statement "science is false and only 1 book is true." This is a common misbelief. It is propagated by Satanists to deceive those who lack scientific rigor and who fail to apply philosophy of logic to their beliefs. Because they cannot utilize the scientific method, they are unable to identify a lie, and to even identify the kind of false premise or non sequitur being plied.

Those who hate Christ love to say that Christians reject "Darwinism and science". It is a false claim. Darwinism is junk. It is nothing less than a social agenda supported by Satanists. Science, however, is a powerful tool. It is nothing in itself. It is only something in the mind of a true scientist, a king who loves to seek out the hidden things.

Second, you attribute the Crusades to Christians. Wrong again. Those were the works of Rome, of the Roman Catholic church. It is a pagan system, and Satanic at the top. Look up the "black pope".

The world is filled with a war between Satanists and Christians. There are true "powers and principalities" at work. They deceive you in movies and tv. They tell you lies in books and text books.

You attack me claiming I pretend to "know all". I have not said that. This explanation of the Adjustment Bureau is spot-on, however.

The PROOF of God is massive. You say the Bible is a work of science fiction? There are more copies of the letters, histories, and testimonies compiled into the Bible than any other book- including those so easily accepted by academics. (e.g. Beowulf, The Iliad). The compiled histories have been vetted; anthropologists use stories in the Bible to locate ancient cities. A battle in WWI was won by the Brits against the Germans when a young lieutenant recalled that a battle had been won in the same location using a canyon passage known only to locals. They found the canyon and circled behind the Germans, and defeated them.

The histories, testimonies, and letters in the Bible are true.

I have never seen any "proof" debunking the Bible. All the mockers just agree to thumbs up each other's bizarre claims.

btw, I am a scientist. How about you?


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Jim Bo: Yes, I have considered what might have happened if I were born into a different culture in a different religion. I was. I compared all the major religions, challenged them philosophically and by experience. I actually decided the Jews were the best. But, when the rabbi said I had to reject Jesus. I prayed 7 days. On the 7th day, Jesus showed me in a dream that He has power over all the other claimants to supernatural power. God is at the top of the food chain. So, I am a Christian with ZERO doubt.


Hookman29 4 years ago

Something interesting in the movie is the statement made by one of the so called Demons(according to man from modesto) was that humans dont have free will, we have the illusion of free will. According to MFM Gods plan has already been set and doesn't ever change, then God already knows the choices we will make doesn't he? So then Adam and Eve eating the apple, death destruction and mayhem shouldn't be a big shocker. This is all supposed to happen for some reason. And since everything hasn't been revealed to us by God, we dont know what he has in store for us or why correct? So then why would he need us to do anything good or bad, follow or not follow him. It wouldn't change or affect his plan anyway!! Am I missing something? And MFM or anyone, what is Gods plan? and why would he want to have us involved, since the world is his footstool he doesn't need us anyway it sounds like. I am interested to hear the answers and comments.


desu 4 years ago

*sigh*, this is exactly the way of thinking that religion causes people to have...


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Actually, desu, I came to this conclusion completely independent of any religion. Do you think they are warning about "socialization" in movies at any denominational churches? Or any churches anywhere? Most of them are the synagogue of Satan.

If you want to find truth, you have to looking. Only the seeker finds, only the one who knocks has the door opened.

The idea that religion is for dunderheads is just one of the many oft-repeated bullet-point thoughts inserted into movies everywhere to subliminally program you.

You think you have a right position on Jesus. You don't. You have the one Satan gave you.

Free your mind.


Hookman29 4 years ago

Man from Modesto your comment to Daniel is right on. However your implication is not. Of course that WW1 battle was won by the Brits knowing the secret canyon passage. The canyon location was written into history and placed in the bible. There was no divinity behind the location. A man wrote that into the bible. History is written by the victors of conflicts.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Hookman,

That is the only point I intended: The Bible is a factual compilation of history, letters from apostles, and testimonies of prophets and disciples.

So, I gave examples. The implication, if anything was not directly stated, is that atheists are brainwashed into believing the Bible is a fictitious creation. There are religious books which are completely invented: Book of Mormon and Scientology, for examples. However, the 66 individual writings called "the Bible" are each independent works produced over a period of more than 4,000 years.


taj 4 years ago

I could say a lot of things, but they've already been said and been responded to, been proven "wrong", been ignored or mis-charaterized and I don't need to see myself talk.

Modesto Man, I'll say this: I used to be like you. I knew everything and anybody that didn't agree with me was wrong. My thinking was small and I was very judgmental. Over the last 20 yrs, things changed.

A quote I read: "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." Reminds me of you.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

taj,

While saying you know nothing, your statements really claim that YOU are right, and I am wrong.

You quote Andre Gide. Gide basically rebelled against religion and God. He considered them "puritanical". One of the reasons Gide needed to reject Christianity and social morality: he liked little boys.

You sure that is whose philosophy of life you want to choose over the teachings of my Father in Heaven and of Jesus?

P.S.- Gide was born into a French culture which had been defeated by the Satanists, who successfully incited a rebellion to overthrow the French monarchy. Their first rule of order, after beheading anyone who might resist them, was to remove the statement that France was a Christian nation.

All those famous French philosophers were just victims of the culture into which they were born. It was heavily influenced by the hand of "the Chairman".


Kovacs Jozsef 4 years ago

Jesus said,"For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another." This whole conversation sounds like it is authored by Satan, the father of contention.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Be careful with that one, Jozsef. My words to those who come here to rail against the truth are not in anger. In my comments to others, I am very clear and very blunt. But, there is no anger.

Peace.

MFM


Hookman29 4 years ago

So Man from Modesto, now that I am clear that this movie is the about the work of the devil and that the world has been living the lie of the devil. You also explained how the proof of God is massive ( which I already knew), please show me where I can find Massive proof that Christians are doing anything about it other than commenting on posts like this.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Hookman, the rejection of miracles is very strong in the U.S. Most American ministers working in casting out devils are rejected. They become missionaries. In Africa, Eastern Europe, and India, Christians follow the Great Commission.

In the U.S., you can find William Lau of the Elijah Challenge, Watchman Radio out of New York, and Dr. Pat Holliday... all who cast out devils, heal the sick, and preach the gospel.

Also, Hookman, commenting on posts like this absolutely sets people free. The devil teaches his followers "the battlefield is for the mind." Many lies bind the ability of non believers to comprehend the gospel. Destroying those lies opens the door for the truth to be received.

I have received many, many testimonies of people who have been helped by videos and writings on the Internet. It is productive work.


Hookman29 4 years ago

Of the course the battlefield is the mind. It has always been where the battle waged. I think some of the friction that comes from this posting and others is that some christians try to advise people as if they were Jesus and not a follower of Jesus. Destroying demons, lies and telling truths is fantastic. The problem of our world is that most people cant see past the immediate real issues in their face, like poverty, hunger, eviction and death. And many non believers dont believe or comprehend the Gospel because of the poor and limited Christian examples that exist in our world today. Or more to the point, the Phony Christian expamples.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Hookman,

Our individual inefficiencies and deficiencies are resolved first by the Hand of God. Next, we have the sacrifice of Jesus. "By his stripes we are healed." We have also the Holy Spirit, who teaches us and "leads us into all truth".

Truth is healing, and can save from death. "My people perish from lack of knowledge," Jesus said. King Solomon said money and wisdom can give you a good life, but only wisdom can save your life.

Information and understanding are important to living.

Along with feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and defending the fatherless and widows, we are told to preach the gospel, heal the sick, and cast out devils.

Believing lies is a critical form of sickness. My article here, and hundreds of articles and videos elsewhere, are just part of my work for the Kingdom of God. The same is very likely true of those who comment in a way that distributes truth and encourages those who read them to draw near to God.

-MFM


Hookman29 4 years ago

MFM thank you for your reply. This is my point exactly. Wisdom is usually the result of experience in life. After all we are fighting an enemy that knows us better then we know ourselves. And the truth here and on other posts like this is exactly what is needed. Chrisitan lives must reflect the example of Jesus in every aspect. Keep up the good work brother.


Dave from Troy 4 years ago

I am so glad some people get it- The Chairman is the king of this world who goes by many names ie: Lucifer. Demons may not wave a scanner over your head to get you to change your mind about things like solar energy, to further Lucifer's plans for globalization and a one world government, but they infect politicians and people through media, and with subtle nudges here and there his plans fall in line. The real truth is they have control over your dreams as well and can adjust you in your sleep- but that sounds crazy... if you try and speak out.. you sound crazy... that is all by design as well and a warning in the movie. Ask yourself why Jesus did not want to fall asleep the night of his arrest. The world around us is controlled by Lucifer- he has his hand in every corporation and government and his plans are proceeding nicely- but the book is already written and we all know how the story ends. STICK TO THE PLAN- GOD'S PLAN


Yay 4 years ago

Is that an ad for a tarot card reading at the bottom???


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Yay: I have to individually block every advertiser, one by one. I abandoned hope to get them all a long time ago.

Sorry for offensive ads.


James 4 years ago

If the hypothesis by the writer is true then why does Love win in the end?


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Love conquers all. Love IS the victory. Satan does want anyone to understand that. He, as the Chairman, manipulated David Norris by ruining his life and making him empty inside.


Bro 4 years ago

Nice posts, I still see the churches stealing peoples money like everyone else.


T-Ruth 4 years ago

The line is "that was not us"

1 word brings your whole point down.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

T-

It helps if you give some context. I have no idea to what you refer. Are you talking about this:

"In a second meeting, Mitchell tells Norris “that was us” in reference to the deaths of his father and brother when he was young. Mitchell says the Bureau wants Norris to be “empty inside” and that this will drive him to succeed." ?

I have correctly quoted (or at least paraphrased. It's been a long time since I saw the film and wrote this article.) Mitchell spoke in the affirmative, not in the negative.


User7777 4 years ago

Hello, ""Man from Modesto"" you are writing: The adjustment bureau" ?


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

User7777: Yes.


User7777 4 years ago

For curiosity, how much cost a movie script ? For The Adjustment Bureau..


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

The movie is based upon the short story by Philip K. Dick. It is titled, "The Adjustment Team". I don't know if they sell copies of the script. However, I am sure you can hire someone to sit down and type out the dialogue. Try guru.com or odesk.com to find someone to transcribe for you.


User7777 4 years ago

No, I do not want to buy a movie script. I asked because I have a good idea for a movie script. But some people speak on forum.. SF movie script is not worth much.

One more question: Where can I find writers to collaborate with me ?


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

User7777: try meetup.com for local writer's groups. You can also try odesk.com, guru.com, and craigslist.

There are many sites on which you can post an ad for free, "writers wanted".


BrendaKay54 4 years ago

"...black-skinned member of the lot".

Man from Modesto - I honestly don't believe your description of this character could have possibly been more offensive. If it's beyond your ability to say the African-American, black-American or the negro character, how about the "the male person of color".


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Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

It is written after the mentality of the people who would write in the traitor as the only "male person of color." You are supposed to be offended. Only, my intention is for the reader to attribute the lack of class to the movie script writers, not to me. Can't win 'em all.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Corby- No. I just think it is funny to not post really long rants which insult me and have no real point or quality. I think, "Did this guy think I would read all this?" Then I laugh, delete, and move to something worthwhile.


Tony 4 years ago

wow you people are crazy. This isn't the first movie to point out the lack of free will that religions impose on it's followers. And some of you are taking the whole Christianity cult thing wayyy too far. Pick up an encyclopedia and read something factual for once in your life


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Tony,

The preponderance of evidence to support the existence of God and of Jesus is massive. The ONLY way to overlook it is to believe a lie, and then ignore the truth presented directly in front of you. Experiment after experiment in psychology has proven this to be true: People will ignore truth right in front of them in favor of their preconceptions; they filter out contradictory evidence.

The Bible is THE most vetted document of all time. There are hundreds of copies. Beowulf has one, partial copy. However, people easily believe Beowulf is a true copy. But, the thousands of punctuation-accurate copies of the Bible (older than Beowulf!) are ignored by God- rejecters.

Who told you the encyclopedia has facts in it? Who does it say started the French Revolution? The real answer is: A Satanic group calling themselves the Illuminati. They have 13 families. Today, they are more popularly called "the NWO".

The King of France kicked out the secret societies, and confiscated their hoards of gold, wealth, and land.

Who do you think can better initiate a civil war against their enemy? Rich, powerful secret societies with members in every place of government all over the world? Or, a Madame Defarge character, as written by Dickens, but believed to be historical fact by many?

Do you realize most people believe what is given to them in movies? God is real. Satan is real. Christians are real. Satanists are real. Check out: Bohemian Grove, John Todd, Alberto Rivera, and Colonel SC. But, before you go: determine to be scientific and to just consider the facts.

Everyone needs to believe what they can see above what they are told to believe. Time to wake up before Hell comes knocking.


I am 4 years ago

I read this entire post and became saddened.. Idk where anyone saw a message from God telling us to use him as a means of division.. I am more spiritual than religious in that I choose to open my heart, mind and life in general to God by talking to him and giving myself time to hear him talk back.. I choose to let God himself guide me rather than any cold book or human soul.. I find your posts to give off an extreme sense of self righteousness and a sense that you belive you are God like when no man can be for no one is without sin.. My relationship with God is close and my life is full of love and joy although I lack materialistic things some thing of as ricges.. I do not... I cannot and will not shove Bible quotes down ppls throats bc I know many who have spent their lives perfecting their knowledge of these man written memories and not enough getting to know God and the plan He has for each of us.. Reading a book wont get you into Heaven any faster than using said book to try to convert ppl who merely sought info on a movie.. You will lead a cold, mislead life if you continue to worship written events based on memory or letters of how an individual interpreted a situation.. If you could ask 100 ppl from back then to explain what happened no teo stories would be alike.. No two letters would tell the same tale.. Thus creating so many religions... God wants us to love, you said it yourself but how much love is in your message to conform to your belief alone or be condumed by hell? Is there some unwritten rule/understanding I am unaware of that states only those who read a Bible are on Gods side? Only they will live eternal with Him? I get it, you know your version of the Bible


I am 4 years ago

But do we who only speak to God know nothing? Im interested in your reply...


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

"I am",

I fear you are not speaking to God. You see, the devil inserts himself where God ought to be. We must filter out this deception and only follow the one true God. If you believe "there is only one god by many names", you are deceived. If you believe Buddhism, Islam, or other false religions lead to God, you have been deceived.

I noted you use "I am". Do you know who uses that? The Freemasons sign documents with "I am" in place of "Sincerely Yours" or other closings. This identifies them to each other. It is a version of calling themselves gods on the same order as God Almighty Himself, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

That is what this movie does: it supplants God with Satan. People are deceived, and believe the traits of the Chairman are traits of the Creator.

The denominational churches are controlled by wolves in sheeps' clothing like the World Council of Churches. Other churches have been started by 33rd degree Freemasons (who must sign a document acknowledging that the 'Great Architect' they worship is not God at all, but Satan to pass the 32nd degree. This is another example of the substitution we're talking about. Those churches include: Mormonism (Joe Smith & Brigham Young both 33s). Jehovah's Witness started by a 33. Even the Charismatic church was started by Satanists in order to introduce a new kind of music which caused the singers to curse themselves by the words.

My message is full of love. People are being deceived. I am telling them to recognize the devil is full of lies and tricks. Jesus spoke one-third of the time about the works of Satan and the devils. Jesus said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge."

Having a personal relationship with God is far superior to going to church. Church cannot save anyone. In fact, it seals many to Hell when they accept the substitution and become followers of man and not of Jesus.

You want to seek God? GREAT. Do it. But, stay away from people that don't have the fruit: Love of God first. Love of GOD. These people will have 3 traits to really separate them from the others who think they have something and have nothing, or worse- have Satan (e.g. the Mormon Jesus is a brother of Satan, i.e. a fake Jesus). These 3 traits are:

they love one another

they pray for their enemies

they obey Jesus' commands

Prophecy, service, loud music, garden parties, and cake bake Wednesday... anyone can do those. But, a real disciple of Jesus will have the 3 things above. You can't find fellowship like that by accident. You have to ask the Holy Spirit to lead you.

Peace.


Tony 4 years ago

mfm

"The preponderance of evidence to support the existence of God and of Jesus is massive."

This statement is laughable. Show me one piece of evidence of ANY supernatural claim that is scientifically proven. Not one supernatural claim has been proven to be true. If you can prove it then you should claim $1,000,000 from the James Randy foundation who have been offering it for the passed 30 years.

And illuminati? Have you read too many dan brown novels as well as religious texts? You've bought into far too many conspiracy theories my friend. If there was any organization that has tried to rule the world it would be the catholic church. No organization has killed as many as them and currently holds the largest net worth as much as them.

And I believe that everyone should believe in themselves instead of an invisible deity which makes them feel useless without it.

And yes I'm aware that christiany sends people to he'll for not believing but I'm also aware that it allows a child rapist to repent and live eternity in the clouds. Sounds like a morally correct god to me


I am....not 4 years ago

Just to add ... I have never even seen this movie... I just wanted to know what it was about to determine whether or not I wanted to waste my time because back when I saw the previews I thought it looked stupid... From what I have read here and in numerous other places I would have to agree with those who think the movie is about the devil trying to get in the way of what God wants to happen and then the two mains overcoming temptation and choosing love.... I tried to read summaries assuming the chairman is God and it just does not fit....

I just still cant believe that you think I pray to the devil because of one post on a random webpage I made about not believing in worshiping man made books or churches but in seeking out God himself and the signs he sends us daily... It's just up to us to take the time out to listen and take notice.. He will lead you where you are meant to go but you have to be willing to walk by Faith not by sight...


Broman 4 years ago

I dont see fellowship like that anywhere MFM. I just keep seeing the same old sayings from christians. No one is putting themselves on the line including christians.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Tony, Rather than listen to what everyone is saying, go and read about Jesus yourself. Read the book of John, Read the book of James, 1 Peter and 2 Peter.

For example it is not "Christianity" that condemns a person to Hell. It is the person himself/herself. God is exactly fair. Whoever accepts Jesus and obeys God, belongs to God as a son/daughter. Whoever rejects Jesus and rebels against God belongs to the devil. God lives in beautiful Heaven where there are no tears and no death. The devil lives in Hell (& later the Lake of Fire), where there is only terrible suffering.

YOU decide your own fate. What do you choose?

Yes, the rapist can be forgiven. God is fair. Everyone, no matter how great or how minor their flaws, can receive forgiveness from Jesus.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

I am: The coincidence should not be overlooked. For Christians, nothing is random. Please consider what I wrote before.

I perceive you have been wounded by the church. Like you, I read the Bible and found discrepancies between the churches' teachings and what Jesus said.

As far as bashing "Bible readers", I want to make a differentiation. There are at least 2 kinds of Bible readers. First, there are the kind you learned to not like: they read the Bible's words, but believe each passage to mean what a pastor somewhere told them. They are followers of men, not followers of God.

The second kind of Bible reader reads scripture and asks the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning. They learn as Jesus said we ought to learn: "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things..."

So, I hope you will acknowledge that there are some right Christians walking around... or at least right some of the time!

As for your child: Praise God!


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

I am... not

I still believe the enemy has got his finger into your mind and emotions. You have some negativity. This is not from our Father. I highly recommend to you the teachings of Win Worley, William Lau, and Derek Prince. They teach "deliverance" according to the way Jesus taught the Kingdom of God and the authority of believers.

But, for a start, please use the following prayer. My wife and I learned it a few years ago and it has blessed us greatly:

"Dear Father in Heaven. Please bless us with more joy, love, laughter and happiness in our marriage."

With overflowing joy, there is little time for unhappiness!


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Broman,

There are Christians putting themselves out there. American culture does not celebrate it, that is all. Do you recall the young girl at Columbine who refused to denounce Jesus? They already killed her friends. She knew she would die. She refused and they killed her.

In India, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Darfur, China, Iran, North Korea, and all over the world, pastors are beaten and murdered. They lose limbs and are disfigured. They are beheaded and burned alive. They all refuse to denounce Jesus.

Even your own words, stating that we should put ourselves on the line... those words encourage me. You may not think so, but your own example is worth something to me. It will also be valuable to others who read it. There is someone out there seeking God. Even though we all may not meet, we know there is another, out there, running the race. Peace.


Tony 4 years ago

Mfm

I am well aware of all the good moral teachings of the king James bible. There's good stuff in there. But so many bad things to go along with it. I attended a catholic primary and high school and it was amusing that they only teach kids the good passages while leaving out the bad ones that call for death to witches and gays and even promoting slavery. If i was a true child of god then i should follow EVERY command in the bible. Right?

And it's such a huge cop out to tell somebody to save themselves. A person can't believe in the supernatural when they havnt found a valid reason. It's not a light switch you can just turn on. Your statement saying that "god is fare" could be compared to me holding a gun to your head asking for your love and if your love isn't genuine then I'd just shoot you, because you didn't save yourself. 

I don't suppose you would believe in an ancient roman god that was born on the 25th of december from a virgin or an Egyptian god born on the 25th of a virgin who also died and resurrected on the 3rd day? How could anybody believe any of these religions that have clearly borrowed from each other over the thousands of years.  Belief is not a simple choice. It's something that has to be accepted through reason.

And please leave the preaching out of your next response.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Tony,

Zeigeist the movie, is itself a zeitgeist- a false work. It seems people are not able to look at 9 truths, and then a 10th false statement and process that the 10th is untrue. Personally, I wish logic were taught 2 or 3 times in U.S. schools.

There are 2 lives each of us has: this physical one, and also our spiritual life. The spirit lives completely independent of the physical body. Even after the body dies, the spirit lives- forever.

The body can be killed by God, other people, and even demons, disease, and the self. But, only God Almighty can throw the spirit into Hell, and into the Lake of Fire.

PS- Jesus was NOT born on Dec. 25th. That, too, is a lie. He was born sometime around the end of harvest. This would have been late September or early October. By December, the sheep would have been out of the field and into barns.


Tony 4 years ago

i asked you not to preach and you gave me 2 paragraphs on it. Also I'm not sure what zeitgeist is? Havnt seen that movie or documentary or whatever.

I wasn't stating that I believe Christ was born on December 25th. I couldn't say whether such a man was even real. I know that emperor Constantine added in many pagan dates to better integrate Christianity. I was merely stating the similarities between religions through the course of history


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Tony,

Your request was acknowledged and denied. The most important thing is Jesus. Because I know that, I want you to know that, too. And, I did not say you believe the Dec. 25th deception. Curious, you are hinting that I do not understand you. It seems you don't understand me. Don't be so defensive. It's a conversation.


Tony 4 years ago

Mfm

I wasn't hinting that you don't understand me. I know you don't understand anything about the reality that we live in. Iv attempted to have an intelligent debate but as I can see from our posts as well as other before me that it's impossible as you simply dismiss anybodys valid points and respond with irrelevant scripture.

I'm an atheist but atleast iv studied all the mainstream religions and have proper grounds to not believe any of them. I wish you would broaden your horizon and catch up with the last 5 thousand years of human discovery.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Tony,

I studied all the main stream religions as well. I read the Quran in Arabic. I spent a year in the middle east. I have met some of the highest ranking Buddhists, while I lived in Philly. I studied meditation. I learned yoga from an Indian master. I learned jiu jitsu, karate, copeira, and even dabbled in some of the chi arts. I did remote viewing, lucid dreaming... I even studied many things that are correctly called sorcery, but which have been main streamed as "the way of the warrior", or simply "the way".

I know very well what I am talking about. It is you who have not understood me. You think you are offering something fresh and new. No, it is old and rotten. I walked in it for many years. What you think is "discovery" is actually a road of lies carefully laid out to play to arrogance.

Once you really sit down and make a commitment TO YOURSELF to find truth, and then start digging, you will find it.

You are the same cookie-cutter mind-trapped, self-proclaimed intellectual I meet over and over again. Your "debate" consists of you repeating what you have heard - and never experienced - and expecting me to bow to you out of deference to your assumed superiority.

Part of discussion is knowing your audience. I know you: nothing special; just another self-proclaimed wise man without any knowledge. Conceit does not substitute for wisdom.


Tonly 4 years ago

Mfm

Not once have I claimed to be superior to you or anybody who follows a religion. Nor do I believe myself to be special. I believe myself to be quite ordinary in fact. Just another human being that wishes to find out what is real and what is make believe. 

You seem to claim that all of science is lies and is dominated but some sort of underground evil organization. The evidence of this so called illuminati is so thin that it's barely a conspiracy theory. And of course I get my information from what I read. Anything else would be just made up. I put my trust in the most educated minds on the planet. The people who have studied their area of expertise, have done experiments and make correct predictions about the universe around us and who are also under constant scrutiny themselves by others in their field. My life (short life thus far) experiences would teach me little about the world around me. Even if I did have a dream or vision of Christ or Zeus, that wouldn't change my thoughts on the supernatural. Luckily we live in an age where we know the brain does strange things and can create even the most strangest of experience that a gullible person would interpret as supernatural. Just go to any mental hospital and ask the patients what their thoughts are. 

I appreciate that you've indulged in all the mainstream religions. You've clearly chosen the one that best suits you and for good reason. But as I said before, it's impossible to debate you when you've decided that every other scientific piece of information that is considered factual by the majority of the world, is a misdirection from the devil. 

And btw I wouldn't dare tell you to discard your faith just as I assume you wouldn't tell me to stop reading non fiction.    


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Tony,

You wrote, "You seem to claim that all of science is lies and is dominated but some sort of underground evil organization." This is an intentional deception propagated by devils against Christians, and repeated by those who learn from television and from people who are just quoting television or pop culture pseudo-scientists like Richard Dawkins. For example, many times, anti-Christian writers and tv/movie characters will say something like, "Christians don't believe in evolution or science."

This is a lie. I am an engineer. Most of the things called "science" in the world are performed by engineers. Because of the scientific and logical processes, I do NOT believe in evolution. However, I greatly enjoy science.

I did not choose the one that "best suits" me. In fact, I actually chose Judaism after all my research. I decided to go in for the one which had the best community. In Philadelphia, I saw that the Jews were the people that really had a community. The Christians and Muslims did not have that. I studied with a rabbi until he told me I had to make a verbal statement that Jesus is not the Messiah. Since I had believed a Jew could choose personally to believe in Jesus or not (He is actually the JEWISH Messiah, after all), that surprised me.

I prayed 7 days for an answer from God. On the 7th night, I saw and learned that the name of Jesus has power over even the strongest of the enemy.

And that is how I am Christian. I KNOW and have experienced that Jesus is the real deal. Since that time, I have shed away the other teachings. Living them always caused me loss- that is how the devil works. However, I have found personal healing in Jesus- and the Peace he promises to those who seek him.

I have seen many miracles while praying to God and to Jesus, in the name of Jesus.

Once, a woman who always supported the church had been diagnosed with breast cancer. She was scheduled for breast cancer the following day. A group of about 12 of us assembled in a pastor's home and prayed. After about 20 minutes, we felt something break. And, led by the Holy Spirit, I prayed "Father, let it be a miracle. Let her walk in, receive a small outpatient surgery in which only a small lump is removed, and let her walk out the same day." In the short vision I saw before I prayed, I believe God was concentrating all the cancer into one small lump about half the size of a marble.

The next day, that is exactly what happened.

I have even seen a dead woman return to life when I prayed as the Holy Spirit led me to pray.

Everything written in the Bible is true. God's promises to back us up are true.

Do you know, we Christians even know what is coming in the future. Our Father in Heaven shows us and prepares us.

Most important is this: as every culture throughout time has proclaimed: there is a Judgment Day. Each person is judged and then has just one of two destinies: eternity in Heaven with a loving God who treats us as his children, or eternity in a lake of fire where people burn forever and ever.

The thing is, people are weak and crooked-hearted. That is where Jesus comes in. Jesus is God's plan for forgiveness. It is simple: whoever accepts Jesus and obeys his commands is a child of God. Whoever rejects Jesus isn't.

On Judgment Day, Jesus is the "advocate", the defense attorney. Whoever claimed Jesus in life (in word and deed) is claimed by Jesus on that day, and found innocent. Whoever rejected Jesus is not forgiven.

That is how God is exactly fair. There is just one exoneration: Jesus. And, there is just one condemnation: rejection of Jesus (which is the same as rejecting God.)


Tony 4 years ago

mfm

I have no idea who Richard Dawkins is nor do I care for such things as pseudo science. I only value the findings of physicists. Cetainly an engineer like yourself would know the likes of Einstein, Kaku, hawking, Galileo, newton, brian cox, Brian Greene, Hubble, and other great minds who have contributed to our understanding of the universe. 

I can't speak of the minds that have contributed to evolution but from what I understand it's not something to be believed. When you have an abundance of evidence such as fossils and DNA, it should be something that one accepts. But evolution is not something I care to argue with someone that dismisses it as a tool of the devil. 

And I'm happy that your friend got over her cancer. Perhaps you should go to the hospital and heal all of the terminally I'll children? The 'real' doctors can take the weekend off. If people could be healed by supernatural means then it would be practiced by every hospital world wide. It would turn medicine on it's head! But then I guess a common response would be that it's gods plan for some to die and some live. Sounds fair to me. 

And with all that bible bashing you threw out, I could replace Jesus name with superman and it wouldn't add or subtract anything from those statements. There have been thousands of predictions of end days but we're all still her. Either all the people of faith got the message wrong or god/s sent a wrong message. 

And yes I guess I'm going to he'll because I don't believe. But it wouldn't be too bad because it will be filled with buddhists, children that died too young to grasp belief, most Jews and every single person that was born and died before Jesus. 

Heaven will have hitler, Mussolini, Charles Manson and every other deranged murder, rapist and pedophile who was Christian. 


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

I think, Tony, that you need to sit down and ask yourself, "Why do I hate Jesus? What problem do I have with God?"

A few points:

1. People who lived right lives, before Jesus, were "set aside" to be redeemed by Jesus. Resurrection and Judgment have not yet happened. That happens in the future sometime. Everyone you say is dead, Jesus says are "sleeping".

2. Hitler and Moussolini were catholic. That is a pagan hybrid, not Christianity. Name means NOTHING. It is how a person lives which shows if they love God or not. You can learn something if you read Matthew 24 (and so could most Christians).

3. Hospitals only promote what makes them money. The medical system is part of the means the NWO uses to reduce the world population. Good eating and healthy sleeping habits many, many times cure what doctors said was terminal.

4. There have been hospital wings cleared out by prayer.


Tony 4 years ago

Mfm

I don't hate Jesus. I couldn't say whether he even existed. It's like saying that I hate robin hood.

I'm not sure what you mean by living the right way. If you mean living a good life where you contribute in a good way to society without hiring others then I could contribute that to myself. I could say the same for all Buddhists as well. Even islander and African tribes who follow nothing like an abrahamic god live the right way.

And whatever those evil dictators were, they believed in god and worshipped Jesus. According to law you'll be seeing a lot of them when your up in the clouds.

So now all doctors are involved in this underground organization as well as the scientists. Are you the only one we can trust?

If your prayers were actually curing people then you would be the greatest person that has ever lived in history. You would be the new Jesus!

When people come out of the hospital better (My life was saved by doctors and surgeons) anybody can say they cured them or their god did. Again I can say that my dog saved me but you can't disprove that ridiculous statement like I can't disprove yours


Broman 4 years ago

MFM I appreciate your comments to me. I am glad you are encouraged, I am still not. The good is not outweighing the evil. I look at people in my daily travels that are in need that dont get it from prominent christian figures. There are people right outside your door that need help that dont get it, becuase it seems that christians prefer to do works in other countries because it suits their image better. I havent met a christian yet that would put their God above money.

I see Christians posting in blogs like this preaching and teaching Jesus is the way. I have never seen anyone brought back from the dead by prayer, or cured of terminal diseases, all I see are stories told by people who claim to see them. You ask Tony above to sit down and think about why he hates Jesus or What is his problem with God? I think his issues are a lot of peoples issues. People are being killed, starved and raped and all christians keep saying is trust in God and Jesus and things will be ok. All the while Christians bleed the system like everyone else for the real resource, which is money. God doesnt need money but somehow every faith in the world including Christians have made that a part of their belief system.

People usually react to what they see not the hidden message. You tell people to read a book called the bible and understand it to be closer to God, a book written by God but through men that were subject to their own personal views. This book didn't drop from the sky it was written by Men having dreams. This is the hard part for people to accept I believe.

When someone is on the streets or being evicted or cant feed their children they need help. When I am out in the streets I observe people and I see lots of people daily that are in need and I help as best I can, sometimes even when it inconveniences me. The other days I purchased food and hotel for a week for a homeless family, even though it meant that I would have to make arrangements on my electric, water and gas bill. I didn't give it to some person to send to the other side of the world on some missions trip.

MFM the message is heard, the world just doesnt seem to have any powerful examples that Christianity is the right way and that Jesus or God even care. Because to be honest, if God already knew everything that would happen, then he created Man for his own selfish reasons.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Broman: Your answer can be found reading the story of Cain and Abel.


Dean 3 years ago

Wouldn't the Chairman have to be God? All throughout the movie, the bureau keeps referring to his plan and is saying that things should be going in accordance with his wishes. Only God has a divine plan, and although people have free will and the ability to stray from his plan and the path he laid out, it is God and his angels that would strive to bring people back to his plan, whereas demons would be pushing them even further from the original trajectory of their lives.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 3 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Dean, The Chairman is made out to seem like God. This is exactly the misdirection they intend. However, as I point out in the article and in the comments, there are also many characteristics which are NOT in the nature of God: temptation, manipulation, murder, preferring David to be "empty" inside to make him driven, etc.

Those are natural characteristics of Satan and his demon followers.

Satanists, in the last 100+ years have been buying up Bible version rights and even producing new versions. These versions, especially the ASV heavily promoted in the Methodist church, also confuse Satan and Jesus. I have counseled youth who, through reading those versions, came to believe Jesus and Satan were one and the same. (For example, the ASV uses "morning star" and "lion" as titles- not just analogous descriptions- in many places for both, even though the Greek terms are different).

They want to confuse the nature of God, to make God seem to have characteristics of Satan because:

When the AntiChrist comes, in the spirit of Satan, he will be like Satan, but claim to be God. The devils are setting you up to be fooled. As all the comments here show, they are better than 80% effective.


kjv 1611 3 years ago

Mfm,

A wise man winneth souls and I'm glad your trying your hardest to do so on here.

I agree with your theory about the movie as well.

I noticed in one of your comments you said that God loves us. That is a common misconception and you have said many wonderfull things on here but the Bible only says God loved. God is a loving God, but he is also a just God. And our sinning fleshy selves dont deserve his love anyway.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 3 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8) God loves sinners, kjv. Even bruised reeds, God loves. Homosexuals, too. It is actions God hates. And, there seems to be an elect group that God/ Jesus hate: hypocrites, the arrogant, and those who trade their inheritance (the Kingdom of God) for some material item (like a bowl of soup, e.g. Esau). There are many, many people whose self-judgment is far more harsh than the Father's. They fear they are lost and unredeemable. This is not true. God loves them still.

One of the most amazing things about the love of the Father is that GOD LOVES THOSE WHO DON'T DESERVE IT. If we had to deserve it, would be based on works, and not a free gift of Love (grace).

Peace, MfM


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 3 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

kjv: Your use of vulgar epithets in a recent post makes it unpostable. And, it is an extreme segue from the topic of this article. Take your un-Jesus-like speech elsewhere.


A.thiest 3 years ago

The agency are the Tall Whites, an alien race which tampered with primate humans enabling us to grow large brains and evolve (some more than others ^ ;-). God, Satan, Angels and Demons are all fables attributed to these intervening ET's over the centuries by there superstitious monkey subjects (us).

Thanks.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 3 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

A.theist: You exactly portray the kind of victim films like The Adjustment Bureau and other forms of socialization create. People believe lies. Fables are actually the spiritual teachings of Europe hidden so that the Catholics could not burn them during the 30 years' war and the rest of the Dark Ages, when the RC Empire ruled.

What you believe is disinformation. School and college text books are printed almost exclusively by Satanists. The "aliens" are actually demons. How many movies can you name in which earth is attacked by aliens, and can only be saved with the help of "good" aliens? And then those good aliens stay on earth to live with humans?

They will come preaching another gospel- that God is not God, just some alien who is misunderstood. That idea was planted in culture via Star Trek and many other media methods. This is called "socialization". It is thought control.

YOU ARE INSIDE THE MATRIX, BELIEVING A FABRICATED REALITY.

The truth is: God is real, demons are real, eternal life is real, salvation is only through Jesus Christ. That is the truth.

Atheists love to say Christians believe a pack of lies fabricated in order that religious personalities might control them.

They need to look first at themselves: they believe disinformation prevaricated to control them.


Bob 2 years ago

I believe The Chairman is God. I also believe Thompson is Satan and Mitchell is Jesus/Arch Angel Gabriel. It makes sense. Everyone thought badly of Thompson, who is Satan as you can see by the way he acts, through deceptive words and actions. Mitchell then tells the truth and he also hasn't lied to David at any point in the movie, a trait Angels have.


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Man from Modesto 2 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Thanks for the input, Bob. Points to ponder.


Sean 2 years ago

Everything from the movie fits in perfectly with what has been written here. There are many comments that claim The Chairman is God. Even the poll here suggests God is the higher being. But none of those results surprise me. All they do is confirm Satan's role, and show how easily we can be fooled into thinking this higher being must have been doing good. It's clear as day The Chairman was ruining David and Elisa's lives. It's so obvious that the only part God played in this movie was when he stopped The Chairman/Satan from breaking one of his fundamental rules. Love conquered The Chairman, love conquered Satan.

Well done, Man from Modesto.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 2 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Thank you, Sean. It is a common tactic of Satan to fool people into thinking he is God.

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    Resources

    Learn how to pray with William Lau as he goes through scripture comparing how Jesus and the disciples prayed. Lau compares this with how prayer happens in the church. They are not the same! www.theelijahchallenge.org

    Find a large list of resources at: www.massdeliverance.net. This site has a free "mass deliverance manual" which lists names and functions of demons, some of their tactical maneuvers and common lies. Also discussed is how to identify demonic presence.


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