Life is Precious - Trig Palin

true love

Blessed Are the Meek For They Shall Inherit the Earth

 

I have been thinking about this since I saw Sara Palin give her speech at the Republican convention. It is not her speech that I am referring to. I am referring to a scene that I saw in the crowds.

Many of the pundits made passing remarks about it at the time but to me it was undoubtedly the most moving and powerful statement that has been made throughout the whole political campaign, and it was made without saying a word.

I am talking about Trig, the young downs syndrome child. In the audience the camera panned to the image of Sara Palin's youngest daughter, Piper, licking her hand and using the spit to fix Trig's hair, as he lay in her arms, looking like a little cherub.

I recently did a hub called Gods Rebels. See:( http://hubpages.com/_2jwewv9mo92mc/hub/GodsRebels ) Trig is a perfect rebel. As he lay there innocent and pure, he was in perfect obedience to The Almighty. Trig's very existence infuriates wicked men. The unscripted love between Piper and Trig was undeniable. I know that millions of people felt joy as they watched that portrait. Could anyone stand up and say this child should not live?

And yet, some do!

It is a testimony against millions of abortions, done for nothing more than convenience. What he and his big sister said, without a word, is more than ten thousand orators could utter in a lifetime. Life is precious!

 

They Hated Him with out a Cause

Trig is a perfect example of walking in the shadow of the Almighty. Think of what a precious image of Christ that this child is being used as.

Trig is innocent and without sin. -as our Lord Jesus Christ was. (Yes, I Know Jesus Christ was born of a virgin but this child, who knows not good and evil, is still innocent in the eyes of our Father. He is not Christ, but he is a shadow of Christ.)

He has done evil to no one, yet he is hated simply because he exists. The love that he and his sister have shown, is a testimony against the brutal violence done against innocent children. It exposes the sin of wicked men that is why they are hated.- as was Jesus Christ the Lord.

Together these two kids preached to more people more powerfully than most evangelists will in a lifetime. For this they will be hated for years to come.

It is sad to think that human beings could have that kind of darkness in their heart, but it is true.

Trig Palin

Sad but True

In case you don't believe that this child is hated here are a few exerpts from different media outlets:

"According to the Globe and Mail, Dr. Andre Lalonde, executive vice-president of the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada (SOGC), is worried that Palin's decision to give birth to Trig, despite knowing about his condition, could influence other women in similar situations, but who lack the financial and emotional support that Palin had access to."

Taken from: LifeSiteNews.com

Dr. Lalonde added that he was very worried about the affect it would have on the abortion issue. He fears more women will keep their child!

Wanting someone dead constitutes hate in my book. What about you?

I imagine that would really hurt his bottom line.

Read the article at: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08091005.html

Just one more and then I'll quit:

"Her down syndrome baby is partly named after Van F****** Halen!!

Yes, Trig Paxson Van Palin is a direct homage from Governor and Mr. Trash to one of their favorite bands.

Van Palin. Yes, we would have a VP who named their kid after Van Halen.

God help us."

Taken from: UPDATE- Hubpages has blocked me from showing these links. TO FIND THIS REFERENCE GOOGLE - "datalounge iowa/forum thread/gossip/6918696/page".

Sara Palin and family

Life Goes On

I am not going to get into how the media and others have attacked Sara Palin and the rest of her family.

It is about one and a half months to the election. I don't know who will win. Doubtless it will get dirtier and more raucous as the election nears. No matter who wins or loses Trig and Piper have preached a pure message. My prayer is simply that it reaches the hearts of those who saw it.

More by this Author


98 comments

vrajavala profile image

vrajavala 8 years ago from Port St. Lucie

There are some sick people out there. And Barack Obama is one of them He voted 3 times against the born alive Infant Protection act. No heart. Infanticide. see http://jillstanek.com

And he thinks babies are a punishment.  Tells us a lot about his sick mind and, most probably sick childhood issues.

You know, Obama is quick to disassociate himself from all the smears, but it is his lackeys doing the workd.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Why-Jesus-...


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Thanks for the input, Vrajavala.

Tom


Rob Sweat 8 years ago

Very good. Keep up the good work. Rob


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Thanks Rob. That means alot to me.

Your friend, Tom


christinekv profile image

christinekv 8 years ago from Washington

Hi Talford -

Nice hub - I did see this scene of Piper and Trig and found it preciously sweet.

It's kind of disheartening to know there are those who would speak out in disagreement over choosing not to have an abortion. The other comment calling Todd "Mr. Trash" is really something else too.

We live in a wicked world. Thanks for doing this 'expose' and exposing the thoughts of those two misguided people. I don't know that I'd agree that Trig is necessarily hated as much as what he symbolizes (righteousness).


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Thank you, cristinekv. True, he is not as hated as what he symbolizes. 

There are alot of people that him, his mother, and anyone who does not agree with everything they stand for.


commonsense 8 years ago

clearly, palin committed a selfish political injustus to her monstrocity allowing it to birth...


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

commonsense,

I am allowing your post. I would like to know, just how perfect are you? You must be a magnificent speciman of humanity. You so easily condemn an innocent child to death.

When people ask how the Hitlers of the world are able to gain political power, I will remember you. You can't spell, but you so easily condemn those you consider inferior to yourself. If the would be Hitlers of the world didn't have hate filled lemmings like yourself, to rally around them, they could never obtain power.

Tell me, do you believe that maybe the mother should still be able to allow the child to die once the baby is born?

How do feel about blacks, Jews, and hispanics?


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

cristinekv, My last answer to you was supposed to read:

"There are alot of people that hate him, his mother, and anyone who does not agree with everything they stand for."

I quess "commonsense" proves my point.

Isn't it amazing that he/she's mind is so twisted that they think it is "common sense"?


commonsense 8 years ago

thank you, your eminence, for allowing me to post...

your presumptious insenuations and accusations seem of one who jumped on his mount and rode off in all directions...


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Talford;

I know one thing, one of the most beautiful things I ever saw on TV was when Sarah's daughter was slicking doen the hair of her baby brother. I get choked up just recalling it. I am so proud that you captured it here and saluted it. Thank you very much.

It doesn't seem to me that the Palins blinked an eye about keeping that precious baby. They have my full admiration for that.

There has been some remarkable (and intuitive) work from the psychological community about how to achieve happiness in life. I dare say it is becoming nearly a fact. Helping others and giving up on our left brained tendencies seem to be the answer. It makes me wonder if there is not much much more that we have to learn, as well.

Your hub is one of the best I've seen.

- your fellow RFRWC


SirDent 8 years ago

Life is a gift of God, not of man. There isn't a man alive that can give life to anything at all. It is all in the hands of God and Him alone.

A selfish person would have aborted that child. One who didn't want to be tied down to a special needs child.

God loved us while we were yet handicapped with sin and unable to choose right from wrong. He loves us so much that He in fact nailed Himself to a cross and died just to show how much he loves us.

All glory belongs to God and Him alone. \o/


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

commonsense

insenuations? I deaf nattly did NOT insenuate you!

I guess perfect people don't need spell check.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

viralprospector and SirDent, Thank you both your comments are uplifting.

Thank You, Tom

BTW- SirDent- That is the first time I've seen " \0/ " it took me a minute to figure it out. I love it! Lift your hands in praise!


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

viralprospector,

I just want to add.

It is definately true, the happiest people I know are the one that are always giving of themselves to others.

Tom


commonsense 8 years ago

dear talford

why do you imply that blacks, jews and hispanics are all mongoloids...???

commonsense


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

commonsense,

My question was: "How do feel about blacks, Jews, and hispanics?" How is that implying anything at all?

I was curious. Who else do you want to see dead?

You can't possibly just want to see all Down Sydrome children put to death and not want some other class to die with them. What about all the people that know what a sick deranged human you are, and are willing to fight for the lives of these children?

How do Christians fit into your utopian world?


bldskr29 profile image

bldskr29 8 years ago from South Carolina

Talford, I'm relatively new to hubpages, but I caught a glimpse of your hub. Wonderful, I really enjoyed reading it and am in total agreement with you. NO Man/Woman walking this earth should put an innocent child to death because he/she has been created with different genes. Again--GREAT job!! ~~Renee~~


commonsense 8 years ago

why would a man with your resume align his ideals with racist views mr talford...???

commonsense


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Thank You , Renee. Good luck with your hubs.

Tom


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

c s,

To quote your first post, "clearly, palin committed a selfish political injustus to her monstrocity allowing it to birth..."

Clearly your English is lacking, but I think what you are saying is, that chopping this innocent child into pieces, while still in the womb would have been UNselfish and good.

You are also referring to this beautiful perfect baby as a monstrocity.


budwood profile image

budwood 8 years ago from Southern Nevada

Hope that I don’t get involved in this disagreement for commenting, but your heading, “Blessed Are the Meek For They Shall Inherit the Earth” is often taken other than originally intended.  In old English, “meek” referred not only to those who are humble, but more often to those who are kind, gentle and who expressed themselves with courtesy.

It has been pointed out that those in charge of political activities (the present reality of earth) are not among the kind and gentle folk to which that notion originally referred. Nor is present day political dialog conducive to such qualities. Maybe “Inherit the Earth” implies that there may be hope for a better and less confrontational future.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Thank you for your comment budwood. I would have to agree with you. The political arena is not filled with kind and gentle souls. That is the main reason I purposely left Sara Palin's politics out of this hub.

I don't mind talking about politics as long as it is civil but that is not what this hub is really about. I just believe that with a "meekness", that that I can not truly profess to posess, these two children preached a message that breaks down barriers. Barriers that can't be won with guns, bombs, or dialogue

Thanks again for commenting.

Tom


commonsense 8 years ago

mr. talford, its clear from others that you simply delete or won't allow comments on your personal hub that are misaligned with your own racist ideals. why is that ...sir?

Its a pitiable shame that you consider blacks, jews, and hispanics lesser people than those with down syndrome.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

CS

I debated whether to allow your lunacy to be posted, but I had not deleted any posts yet so why not allow you to make a fool of yourself.

What is a pitiable (sic-LOL) shame is that you consider yourself an able and fit judge, to deem someone not fit for life.

You still need to explain the logic behind your original statement saying that Sara Palin was selfish, simply because she gave birth to her son? You also never gave your reasoning for stating that it was a political injustice!

I don't expect an honest answer from you, but I think it is very unfortunate that there are alot of people who have the same twisted thought process as yourself.

As I stated in my article, Trig's very existance is a threat to some people. You claim a woman should have a choice, but in reality the only choice you are happy with is the death of the unborn child. 

These children's love enrages you.

I am adding you to my prayer list, commonsense. I will pray that God breaks through the darkness and you come to know the joy of God's salvation.

Tom


SirDent 8 years ago

Talford, I believe commonsense is only after LULZ. I would ignore his comments or delete them completely.

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Trolls-Among-Us A suggested read if you haven't read it already.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

SirDent,

You may be right. He is obviously trying to bait me. The unfortunate truth though is, that there are people out there who think like he writes.


commonsense 8 years ago

dear talford, thank you sir for your generous and kind comments. although, i'm not sure you understand the definition of prayer.

i have nothing for your thumb smashing admirer from the carolinas, probably still picking tacks from his teeth.

commonsense


commonsense 8 years ago

dear talford

i believe life is basically good if it is equipped with all of its expected components...but a seed offering life that is flawed as much as down syndrome is unexceptable to sensable people and will be pulled from the vine prematurely.

actually, you've been peddling your self-rightous material and attempting to spread your religious sauce to and on everything you happen to see or hear so long that you've become boring. please freshen it up a bit.

after all, life is the cheapest thing on earth, it grow everywhere ,all the time ,and at a cost of nothing. and you want to cover it all with your "precioius" net. what a fool. commonsense


commonsense 8 years ago

dear talford

why are you continually harping on my english and or grammer???

do you not know that "pitiable" and "monstrosity" are words of the king's english??? have you no schooling??? why don't you consult your dictionary before digging your hole deeper???

more commonsense


Eddie Perkins 8 years ago

I appreciate this hub. I agree totally with you.

As for the opposition. A man (or woman) convinced against his will remains unconvinced still. I have no time for them personally. I would let them spread their venom on their own real estate, I would post the truth on mine and let God take care the results.

I realize we are all different and God knows how to use each of us. Praise His Holy Name!

I hope you don't mind me including this statement that came from a recent Daily Bread devotion which I just read this morning. I think it applies here. I won't include the links.

If we keep doing what is right-- And serving Christ each day, We need not fear what others think Nor what the critics say. --D. De Haan 

"The most powerful testimony is a godly life."

Again, please allow me to say that I am in complete agreement with what you have written. It is very well done. Thank you. ~ eddie


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Eddie,

Thank you! You posts are very encouraging and edifing. I especially loved the quote; "The most powerful testimony is a godly life."

There is a limit to what I will allow from "commonsense". I do believe it is important to allow people to understand how these people think. Unfortunately, what c. s. is saying is the mind set of many others. Most of them have the good sense not to state it except in company they know already accepts it.

Thanks again for stopping by and giving me your support.

Tom


commonsense 8 years ago

dear talford

clearly you don't have a clue about the way things actually are in the universe. i figure that you have been bathing in your persomal religious jesus sause so long that any hope of the real truth ever penetrating your shallow mind is not likely. you have allowed me to post my opinion on your nickel though and for that you have my sincere respect. without opposing dialogs and ideals what could be the need for an open discussion on any subject? of course when one runs across an ignorant fundamentalist that has all the answers and knows everything like that pitiable carpenter, "thumb smasher", down there in west virginia, one need not expect space for dialog. like the nut says...i just delete 'em if they want to argue.

commonsense


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

When Piper Palin licked her hand to wipe down the hair of her brother Trig Palin, it was a touching scene for millions of viewers. I have since discovered some connections between that scene and the story of the blind man in the Gospel of John, chapter 9.

"Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?" Trig's parents knew beforehand that he would be born with Down syndrome.

Jesus answered, "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents, but that the works of God should be manifest in him."

"He spat on the ground, and made clay [in the Greek text, 'pay-lon'] of the spittle, and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay ['pay-lon']."

Greek is an inflected language, meaning that word endings can differ depending on how words fit into sentences. So even though the Greek word for clay is listed as "pelos" (pronounced "pay-los'"), its use in John, chapter 9, requires a "pay-lon" pronunciation, which is very close to "Palin".

Any of these observations can be dismissed as coincidence. But the ugly suggestion by liberals that Sarah Palin sinned in not having aborted Trig, the spit that Piper wiped across Trig's hair, and the use of "pay-lon" in the Greek text of John 9, combine in a way that I find interesting.

In Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, in its Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, there are two words listed that are similar to "Palin": 3825 palin, pronounced "pal'-in", meaning "anew" or "back again"; 4081 pelos, pronounced "pay-los'", meaning "clay" (in John 9 the word is inflected to "pay-lon").

Although 3825 might suggest Sarah Palin's political philosophy as renewed conservatism, the name similarity might be mere coincidence.

With 4081, as it is used in John 9, we not only have a word that sounds similar to "Palin", but we have the story in John 9 that, for me at least, resonates with Sarah Palin's decision to give birth to a Down syndrome baby and with the scene of Piper Palin wiping spittle over Trig Palin's hair.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

talford, I love this hub. And you are so right in what you said. I can't understand how people can say that he shouldn't have been born. Maybe to him, we are the ones who are not the perfect beings we should be and we shouldn't have been born. I mean, really, how many of us are perfect? Since the answer is none, who among us have the right to say that he shouldn't be here? Those people who do that seem very selfish, self-righteous, cold, uncaring people. None of whom I feel are real Christians. I like what SirDent said so well. This is a good hub and I'm glad you did it. Keep up the great work!


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

primsplay,

Thank you for your comment. As far as there being a relationship between the words; Palin, palin, and paylos, I would not know.

Tom


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

allshookup,

Thank you. What you said is so true. Who is so great that they are able, so lightly, to condemn someone to death.

Life itself has to be held as precious. Do these condemning people ever consider, that someone may be willing to condemn them to death, just as lightly?

Thanks again for stopping by. Tom


commonsense 8 years ago

talford

clearly you are little more than a "raving lunitic" plus a "weak jesus freak" with a gaggle of desparate followers who seemingly are just as shallow.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Wow, I came by just to check on this hub because it is one that really stands out to me as being great. And look at this new info just off the wire I found: I am desparate, I am a follower, and I'm shallow. Wow, thanks for the newsflash commonsense. IF that is your real name. LOLOLOLOL

Sticks and stones...........................


commonsense 8 years ago

yo again talford

im afraid your self appointed status of "prodigy" may be a little too ambitious for your caliber.


commonsense 8 years ago

yo alshookup

nice try...but we know you have been "sitting" on talford's hub since its conception, just in case i added more true insight.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

The only one I see giving themselves a deluded self appointed status would be you, calling yourself "commonsense". If there is one thing you lack, it is common sense.

If you knew how hubpages worked, you would know that no one gives themselves their own rating.

allshookup, Thanks for stopping by. If "commonsense" becomes too annoying let me know and I will delete his posts.

Tom


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

talford, he's just showing his true colors, it's all good. :) I guess he hasn't been on the hugpages enough to know that you didn't 'appoint' yourself anything. LOL It's good for a laugh. Hey, think I can appoint myself 'queen for a day'? That might be fun!

Now, where's my crown?


JoeDoe 8 years ago from Right next door

Talford,

First of all I agree with you that Trigg is an innocent and should not be attacked in any way.  The fact that someone would comment about how this innocent child should not have been born is sick and speaks volumes about the sickness that is present in our society.

That being said, I think it is quite hypocritcal for Sarah Palin to put Trigg and her family on stage especially because he has Down's sydnrome.  The reason for this is simple.  Sarah Palin and her party preach that welfare is an abomination and it is a burden to our society.  If they had their way social welfare would be eliminated.

The Palin's made the choice to have Trigg despite knwoing full well that the chance of him having Down's syndrome would be very high.  Once the Palin's pass away who do you think is going to support Trigg?  Naturually the welfare system will.  Also who do you think is going to provide healthcare for Trigg after the Palin's pass away?  Of course the government.

The issue is simple.  Sarah Palin is a walking hypocracy.  She preaches against teaching sex education in schools despite teenage pregnancy reaching a 30 year low because of sex education.  Despite the decline in teenage pregnancy, her own daughter is pregnant... a victim of ignorance that befalls teenagers when no one is around to teach them about sex.

It is honorable that her Daughter chose to keep the baby but the fact remains that Palin's type of thinking is what led to her daughter being pregnant in the first place.  Don't you think that if Palin supported sex education and teenage preganancy continued to decline like it has been, that even fewer girls would be faced with the horrible decision of having to seek an abortion?

Palin's daughter was lucky that her Mom is wealthy.  What happens to the pregnant teenager who decides to keep her baby even though she doesn't have a wealthy family?  Think about this really hard the next time you listen to someone preaching against welfare and welfare Moms (as Palin and her party often do).


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

I discovered "Life is precious - Trig Palin" through an internet search. The tender sentiments expressed by talford prompted me to share my discovery of correspondencies between teachings in the Gospel of John, chapter 9, and that touching video at the head of this hubpage. These correspondencies, if they are valid, are spiritual in nature.

Some of the comments on this hubpage reek with political thoughts that are foreign to the tender sentiments that prompted this hubpage to be created. The thought that Trig's parents are bad people for knowingly giving birth to a baby diagnosed to have Down syndrome is merely an ugly thought within the greater spiritual reality in which politically-charged thoughts are allowed to exist.

Our great Redeemer's words, "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents, but that the works of God should be manifest in him," were spoken out of a spiritual awareness superior to our own. "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord " (Isaiah 55:8).


commonsense 8 years ago

its astonishing...!!! never before have i seen such a ship of fools.


JoeDoe 8 years ago from Right next door

Ok no offense to commonsense but seriously you need to learn to speak in an educated way rather than an inflammatory way.  Why bother to write at all if all you are doing is posting nonesense?

As for Prismsplay and her comment about people being ugly for saying Palin's judgement is lacking.... well no one said that she is a bad person for giving birth to a baby knowing full well he or she will be disabled.  That is a very noble gesture and honestly we need more people to think like that and stop punishing unborn babies for their own lack of discretion.

My point is that the Palins (and their party) speak out against the elements of our government who want to support these babies and their Moms once they are born.  Do you remember a decade ago and the controversy that was created regarding single Moms?  Many in the republican party said it was wrong... yet isn't Sarah Palin's daughter going to be a single Mom?

Many in Palin's party preach against welfare yet what happens when a personal with limited financial means decides to have a disabled baby?  Doesn't it take a lot of time and energy to raise a disabled child?  The Palin's are fortunate that they can pay for nannies and people to help them with the care of their disabled child... what happens to all of those who cannot afford that type of help?  More than that... Palin and her party stigmatize welfare Moms even though their only crime is having a baby while poor.

That is the hypocracy and the ugliness in the world today.  It is really sad that you cannot see it and instead badmouth those that do.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Primsplay, Thank you for your words of wisdom. I am glad that you understood the spirit that I wrote in.

Joe, I appreciate that you acknowledge that what Sara did is noble and that more women should make that choice. However it seems, that simply because of her political affiliation, you are calling her decision hypocricy. Certainly anyone who hates the Republican party would have condemned her, no matter what her choice had been.

Honestly this hub was not written to spark a political debate. I don't believe abortion is a political issue. I believe it is far above politics. Votes should not be bought with human blood.

What Piper and Trig did IMHO is manifest love. That kind of pure love comes only from God. Jesus said, "Except we become as little children we cannot see the kingdom of heaven".

I think as human beings if we can see the value of every human life, and treasure it, we would not have most of the miseries and heartbeak we have on earth today. That is the message that these children preached. That is what I was trying, in my own feeble way, to point out.

Tom


commonsense 8 years ago

earth is 98% full, delete at least all the rotten seeds you can.


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

I agree that not aborting a child with Down's Syndrome is the right thing to do. I would make the same decision.

However, I can't see hate for the baby in the comments you list. Concern about people bringing up special needs children without proper support is valid. There are too many parents who struggle, in my view, and need more help. That doesn't mean I think they should all abort their babies, far from it.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

London girl, I appreciate your response but I would argue that your logic is flawed. You agree that not aborting, (aborting is fancy word for killing) the baby is the right thing to do.

You said, "Concern about people bringing up special needs children without proper support is valid". Valid in what regard? This man does not need to pay support for them. He makes money on children who are aborted.

If you say that society will have to pay, so we all have to be concerned; You have just swallowed the bait that Socialistic dictators have used, to ensnare their populations.

Old people can be a burden on society, should we begin the debate. Should voters should decide who gets to live and who's life needs aborting? We could gussy it up and call euthanasia, or better yet PHYSICIAN ASSISTED suicide. After all that way we are just giving them a helping hand.

This issue is just around the corner by the way. We already know that Social Security will not be able to be sustained to support all of the old people that will be in the U. S. in a short time.

Hitler claimed that the Jews were the ones that were bad for the economy, and we all know what happened with that move to help out society. It ended with the bloody and ruthless murder of millions.

Go back a hundred and fifty years in my own country people argued that slavery was necessary for the economy.

All these movements have one thing in common. First and foremost, the argument was, or will be, made that these humans are not really human, or that their lives are not worth living. This is important, more than any other factor. We have to be able to convince ourselves that we are just being pragmatic, and intellectually superior, as the blood drains from their lifeless bodies.

London girl, I believe you are getting caught up in an intellectual argument. That in itself would be OK. People need to think and reason things through. My stance is; there are some things that should never be given the stature of a debate.

Killing a human being, or bringing them into slavery, when they have commited no crime is indefensable to me.


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

""Concern about people bringing up special needs children without proper support is valid". Valid in what regard?"

Valid because we should all be concerned that those parents bringing up special needs children get enough support. Being a parent is in itself difficult - which of us could say that we haven't needed and welcomed support from our own mothers / friends / health visitors etc when we have a baby or young child?

So I think it's important that we bear this need in mind.

For what it's worth, and I gather you will disagree, I strongly support the right of an individual of sound mind to choose death. There are times when this is a rational decision.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

"Valid because we should all be concerned that those parents bringing up special needs children get enough support. Being a parent is in itself difficult - which of us could say that we haven't needed and welcomed support from our own mothers / friends / health visitors etc when we have a baby or young child?"

I would whole heartedly agree with you. We should all be concerned. I think you would agree that not everone is, take for example "commonsense".

What the Doctor I quoted was saying i.e., was not that he personally wanted to help anyone. He openly expressed the opinion that maybe it would have been better for society if he Sara Palin had put Trig to death before he was ever allowed to breath his first breath. This from a man with a financial interest in seeing babies aborted.

I do disagree with you regarding euthanasia. I will answer you on that one when I have more time. I'm rushing out the door right now.

Tom


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

  London girl, I said I would answer you regarding euthanasia. So here goes.

  “To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug, nor give advice which may cause his death.” from the Hippocratic Oath.

  There is a clear reason why doctor chose to take the Hippocratic Oath as their creed. The history of medicine from its beginning has been a two edged sword. What is entered into, with perhaps the best of intentions, has ended up with monstrous consequences.

  The people of Germany were an educated and moral society when “death assistance” began to be debated. By 1941 euthanasia was common practice. Once it becomes accepted by society as a whole, the debate switches from, whether or not, to; who and by whom.

  Often when a person is sick or in pain they become depressed. In this state it is easy for someone to be persuaded that their lives are useless. These are the innocent people who will be eliminated first.

  These deaths will snowball as it becomes more acceptable. There will no doubt be a few voices in the wilderness, but most will turn a blind eye, as long as it does not affect them personally.

  Soon people whose money ran out will be slowly allowed to waste away as they starve to death in nursing homes. This is the lessons of history.

  London girl, please consider the obvious result of these philosophies when they are followed to their logical conclusion.

  Treasure life it is precious.

 Ecclesiastes 9:4 “For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.”


His daughter 8 years ago

Very good hub you wrote!! Have you ever considered how God may possibly be raising up another Deborah? Very interesting to compare Deborah and Sarah Palin. Judges 4:4-14. See what you think

His Daughter


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

I have never thought about that. Good point. I have, however thought about her being an Esther. What do you think? I know I'm not the author of this hub, but I will enjoy reading the Scripture you gave us. I love this hub and how talford goes about sharing it. Ok, going to read Judges now.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

His daughter,

I hadn't considered that. It could have validity, we will have to wait and see. One thing is for sure, just to run for a high office, being a Christian, she had to be aware of how she would be attacked on every side. That takes courage.

I wonder, if she is like Deborah; do you think there will be another Jael? LOL (I just had to throw that in.)

allshookup, Your comments are welcome anytime.

Tom


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

My mother-in-law committed suicide. She was an educated, intelligent woman, suffering greatly from progressive, aggressive Multiple Sclerosis. It's a horrible illness, and one where pain is hard to control, and the increasing indignities of everyday life hard to deal with.

She couldn't easily do it in the UK, where we live, and she travelled to the Dignitas clinic in Switzerland.

Oh, and she was (as the whole family is) Jewish.


JoeDoe 8 years ago from Right next door

Talford,

I think that you see the problem of abortion as an isolated topic and unfortunately it is not. You want to label all the ideas that can decrease abortion as being socialist so that you can dismiss them.

You cannot tell a woman that abortion is wrong if you want her to try and raise a disabled baby without being able to provide basic necessities. Of course it was wrong for this woman to have gotten pregnant in the first place but now that she is pregnant the reality is that her child is forever going to need care... care which she cannot afford. Now you to label her as a single, welfare mom and disgrace her because she decided to keep her baby and live in poverty for the rest of her life.

The problems with conservative hypocracy (as I call it) is that they dislike abortion yet they do not want to enact policies to prevent woman from being faced with the decision (as it stands by todays law).

They preach against welfare when there is no way that a young single mother could possible care for a disabled child without it (or without a wealthy family to support her).

They preach against universal health care yet there is no way that this disabled child will ever work for an employer who can provide it for him or her.

They preach against sex education in schools when in fact this is what has been decreasing the incidence of teenage preganancy to the point that it is at the lowest levels in 30 years. Isn't it better that if children are going to have sex anyway that they do so with the knowledge of birth control so that they do not get pregnant and then later have to face the question of abortion?

The problem is that you see Abortion as a single issue... and, as you mentioned, above politics. Unfortunately, it is not no matter how much you think otherwise. If you believe that abortion is wrong then make sure that the politics that lead us make abortion an ugly option not an attractive one.

Make sure that poor, uneducated women are guaranteed the financial and educational resources so that they are not stigmatized or financially crippled for life simply because they choose to spare the life of their disabled child.

Make sure that disabled children are supported so that poor parents don't have to wonder what will happen to their child should they pass away.

If you want to call these ideas socialist then so be it. But why would you dismiss these ideals with a label if you truely want to see an end to the ugly face of abortion?


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

JoeDoe's comments illustrate what is wrong with human society today. It sees nothing higher than itself. Whatever laws it establishes are viewed as superior to the laws of God, Who chooses not interfere in our moral judgments. "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." We can use that liberty in humility before God, or we can use it to rebel against God and His laws and view our own laws as supreme.

But though God allows us to do whatever we choose, such as making abortion legal (which implies that we already sensed that it was illegal and immoral according to any humility before God), we cannot be sure that what we choose is pleasing to God. Many of us no longer care. "The Spirit of Gof cannot dwell in unholy temples." When the Spirit of God leaves us, we are in danger of losing the liberties that are attained only through that Spirit.

Any society that humbles itself before God is prompt to care for whatever children the Lord blesses us with, no matter what special needs they might have.


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

My statement that "we cannot be sure that what we choose is pleasing to God" is false for those who are guided by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13). But for our society as a whole, the statement is true.

"Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" (Isaiah 5:21). Sarah Palin's moral decision to give birth to Trig was not prudent according to some people whose perspective is confined to human society only, without any concern for the overarching purposes of God.

God bless little Trig. As for his mother, here is my sentiment:

I'm voting for Sarah,

Who's so much like us at our best.

She's been a mayor, governor now.

So far she's passed every test.

I'm voting for Sarah.

For her victory and safety I pray.

America's brightest days are ahead

With Sarah to help lead the way.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

primsplay, Thank you for answering Joe. I don't get on to write as often as I would like to.

London girl,

I can certainly empathize with you. That does not mean that I agree with your mother-in-laws decision.

As I stated in my last post, consider the logical end of your argument. What if someone is just depressed? Could it not then be argued that they were suffering psychologically, and that the suffering is unbearable?

It is a fact, not just speculation, that once this kind of killing begins, innocent people die. A doctor who can assist one person with a suicide begins to lose their conscience about putting others to death who may be crippled or invalid.

Terri Schiavo was starved and withheld water, as she slowly dehydrated and died. By every account, this was a slow and torturous death. This, even though she had family willing to carry the whole burden of caring for her for the rest of her life.

A judge, in his omnipotence decided she did not deserve to live. (May God reward him justly.) She had committed no crime. she would not have been a burden to society. Someone just wanted her dead, and they got their way. Legally!

Dr. Zylicz a Dutch palliative care physician testified before the United Kingdoms parliament that as many as 25% of the people put to death, in the Netherlands, were killed involuntarily.

How many unwilling participants are worth this great right?

London girl, as I said, I can empathize. I know what it is like when love ones suffer, but this is the wrong choice.

I don't know what relevance your mother-in-law being Jewish has. I live in a family that has one whole side of the family that is Jewish. None of my relatives are Orthodox, but I am sure you are aware that the Orthodox believe that abortion and euthanasia are wrong, also. This is what the Holy Scriptures say.

I am glad that you have posted. I hope that you understand I have no animus toward you. I just know that this is a terrible path for any society to go down.


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

"It sees nothing higher than itself. Whatever laws it establishes are viewed as superior to the laws of God"

But not everyone believes in your God and your beliefs. Not everyone believes in God at all.

"I don't know what relevance your mother-in-law being Jewish has."

The reason I mentioned this is because of the comments in relation to the Holocaust.

"I can certainly empathize with you. That does not mean that I agree with your mother-in-laws decision."

I'm not sure I agree with it either. But I agree with her right to make it. "I am the Master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul".


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Joe,

What can I say? Every paragraph us filled with inaccuracies!

Joe you said,"You want to label all the ideas that can decrease abortion as being socialist so that you can dismiss them."

As I went back and reread what I said, I can't for the life of me see where I said that.

Joe said,"You cannot tell a woman that abortion is wrong if you want her to try and raise a disabled baby without being able to provide basic necessities."

Tom says, In Florida where I live any mother can take any newborn to a hospital or fire station and drop them off. They will not be charged with any crime and their child will be found a home. I understand that just about every state in the Union has similar laws.

Joe says, "Now you to label her as a single, welfare mom and disgrace her because she decided to keep her baby and live in poverty for the rest of her life."

Tom says, Joe, you are telling lies about me again. I never said that.

Joe said, "They preach against universal health care yet there is no way that this disabled child will ever work for an employer who can provide it for him or her."

Tom says, Joe you are uninformed. Many disabled and handicapped people hold down jobs. A man with downs syndrome works at the grocery store I shop at. Some have even been TV stars. You are very arrogant to assume such a thing.

Joe says, "They preach against sex education in schools when in fact this is what has been decreasing the incidence of teenage preganancy to the point that it is at the lowest levels in 30 years."

Tom says, There you go again. This is a completly erroneous statement. Check out; http://www.teenshelter.org/data.htm Teen pregnancy rose dramaticly from the time sex education was added to scool curriculum (1970's - 80's). It has just begun to taper off but still exceeds pre-sex-ed days.

Joe says, "Isn't it better that if children are going to have sex anyway that they do so with the knowledge of birth control".

Tom says, Joe I am beginning to think you are at best extremely naive. I hate to crude, but tell me honestly. When you were in High School did you really need a class to teach you what a rubber is for? All that happens is a dulling of sensibilities. Teaching it in school, is a form of condoning the behavior.

I don't think I will take the time to answer you so thoroughly next time. Please think, before you write. 


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

London girl,

I ask again; How many unwilling participants are worth this great right?

How many innocent people would have to die, against their will, before you would be persuaded?


Misha profile image

Misha 8 years ago from DC Area

I think you should vote for Obama, he will take care of this :)


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

LondonGirl: "But not everyone believes in your God and your beliefs. Not everyone believes in God at all."

That reality guided my thinking while creating my posts, in which I have suggested that we exist within a spiritual reality in which human judgments opposed to superior spiritual laws are allowed to exist. Should persons angered by that suggestion seize control of the human society in which I exist, I could be restricted from expressing it.

The video at the head of this hubpage touches my heart and emotions in ways that I cannot put into words.

Misha: "I think you should vote for Obama, he will take care of this :)"

The smiley face at the end of your statement leaves me wondering whether or not it was made in jest. Remove the smiley face and the statement can be interpreted as having an ominous tone. What is the "this" that Obama will take care of? (I assume that you are referring to the presidential candidate who has said that if his daughters "make a mistake" he doesn't want them "punished with a baby".)


Misha profile image

Misha 8 years ago from DC Area

Oh, all the issues you have in life :)

To tell you the top secret - for the last several days I go around and post pro-obama on pro-mccain hubs and vice versa. Cause I honestly think it does not make any material difference :)


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Misha,

Unfortunately, Obama believes he can take care of this issue.

He has supported legislation to allow doctors to kill thriving children who have survived an attempt at abortion and are born alive and kicking, but I have said I don't want to make this thread about politics, so I will proceed no further.


JoeDoe 8 years ago from Right next door

Prismplay,

Although I respect you for your strong religious beliefs, I am sorry to be the one to tell you this but you are not the only one with a relationship with God.  Sarah Palin may be your political candidate but she is NOT God's candidate so please spare us the poetry and the attempts to link her with Godlines.  Last time I checked we do not live in a theocracy (no matter how much you may dislike this idea).  Also the last time I checked our forefathers specifically detailed in our constitution that there shall be a separation of church and state.

If your religion works for you that is wonderful.  But remember you do not live in a country of ONE.  There a millions of other Americans who believe in other religions and who believe in no religion at all.  Our beloved country has been created on the notion that ALL can practice or not practice freely and the government has no link with this practice.  That is why we are the U.S. of A and not the Republic of Iran.  Again we are not a theocracy.

As for Palin, it was a noble thing that she decided to have Trigg.  She can afford to care for her child and that is why the decision was easy for her.  You have made no mention about the poeple who deny facilities to mother's who cannot afford to care for their disabled kids.

Talford,

You state that you have never made any mention or comments suggesting that welfare or socialized medicine is wrong.  If that is the case then I am mistaken and I apolgize for we are on the same page.  Its just that I find many conservative voices seem to stigmatize the idea of the government helping its citizens and I thought that maybe you subscribed to this philosophy as well.  Again sorry for my mistake and glad to see we both agree on the necessity of the institution of welfare and socialized health care.

That being said, you mentioned that I am misinformed because disabled kids have jobs... sorry that is where you are misinformed.  Many disabled people have jobs but not the majority.  The jobs that they do hold are because the government gives the employer a tax break to hire them not because the companies want to hire them.  Lets not forget, that the job in the department store or grocery store is often minimum wage and without benefits.  So please tell me again how a disabled person is to afford health insurance?

Also you seem to think that all disabled people can function at the same level and you are sadly mistaken.  Even children with Down's syndrome have varying degrees of intellect and IQ.  Some can function normally while others will never be able to function without assistance.  So again please tell me how the most severely disabled are going to care for themselves in a world of no welfare and no socialized medicine?

As for poor mother's being able to drop off their babies at fire stations etc.  How will they be able to afford the delivery of their child without health insurance?  And tell us why they should be forced to part with their child rather than be able to care for them on their own (with the the help of welfare)? Are only the wealthy supposed to have children?

And finally, in regard to teenage pregnancy.  It is indeed on the DECLINE.  Here is the report http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstat...

This is not a website that cites and references older sources... this is the actual report from 2006.  Notice that they mention that teenage pregnancy  "is at its lowest level in 30 years" and this is due to a combination of 2 things.... absitnence and birth control.  The fact that both of these are taught in optional sex education classes is certain to have played a role in this figure.


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

JoeDoe: "Also the last time I checked our forefathers specifically detailed in our constitution that there shall be a separation of church and state."

This is loaded with lies. The phrase "the last I chescked" is a lie, because if you really did check, you would have discovered that the phrase "separation of church and state", or anything close to it, does not exist in the Declaration of Independence or the Constututuion.

What the Declaration, signed by our forefathers, does say is this: "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

What the Constitution, established by our forefathers, does say is this: "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Its the no law "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" part that you have not checked sufficiently, and indeed, probably wish did not exist!


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

Bear with me, because I'm not an American so I don't quite get all the short-hand. What is socialised medicine?


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

London girl,

I just have a minute or two, so I will try to give you the short answer. I don't know what things are like on the other side of the pond right now. When I was much younger and involved with a different crowd of friends, I knew a man (U.S. citizen)who had gone to London and married a girl, just so he could get heroin from the government. That was the program they had in those days. This is one form of socialized medicine.

In a nut shell, it means health care provided by the state with no charge to it's users.

To some extent we have limited socialized medicine here in the states already. Emergency room services are available to anyone no questions asked. Social programs in every state for low income, indigent, and unemployed are available.

What some people mean by socialized medicine, is a soup to nuts approach. Where every bit of healthcare is provided from cradle to grave by a big brother, or as some refer to it, a nanny state.


joedoe 8 years ago

Prismplay,

So let me get this straight... you believe that our constitution says that we should have a marriage of church and state?

Let me elaborate and shed some light on the lies you are trying to pass off. Thomas Jefferson was the first to allude to the "wall of separation" between church and state. Our supreme court (that would be the highest court in our land and the one designated to make the ultimate determinations about our constitution) has decided time and time again that religin will not be intertwined with our government and no religion is to be favored over the other.

That means that your religion is no more or less valid in the eyes of our government as Islam or Aethism. I know you want to think otherwise and I know you wish that were not the case but again your love for theocracy is not what this country is about.


Joedoe 8 years ago

Talford,

I cannot believe that you resort to such distortion to try and justify your point of view. Is handing out free heroin really socialized medicine? That was a decision that was made by the British Medical Council but in California (which has NO socialized meidicne) medical marijuana can be given to individuals so does that mean that private medicine leads to medical marijuana for all?

What you don't seem to understand is that the United States spends more of its Gross Domestic Product on health care than any other nation on Earth. Even though we don't provide health care for all we still pay a lot more for it than nations who do provide it for all.

Also the coverage that you mention for low income and unemployed.... if that were the case then tell me why we have close to 16% of our population without health insurance?

In California, poor people cannot get health insurance unless they have a young child. That means if you are a college student, or a middle aged person without kids who happens to get laid off, you are out of luck.

Here in America we see Health Insurance as a benefit not a right. Only the privileged will have access to medical care if they fall ill. If you are too poor or you are unfortunate enough to work for an employer that does not provide care, then you must suffer with your illness. This is wrong.


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

JoeDoe: "That means that your religion is no more or less valid in the eyes of our government as Islam or Atheism, I know you want to think otherwise and I know you wish that were not the case but again your love for theocracy is not what this country is about."

I caught you lying about something that is not in the Constitution. As proof of this, instead, of proving my challenge wrong, you shifted to quoting a statement that is not part of the Constitution.

Now you claim, without any evidence, that I love a theocracy. I am opposed to all theocracies, and indeed, the Constitution supports me in my opposition, since it states that Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion.

If you persist in uttering falsehoods, such as "I know you want to think otherwise", you will be regarded as a liar. Perhaps some have already come to that conclusion. For you to claim to have the ability to know how I "want to think" is similar to the arrogance of theocrats.


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

"In a nut shell, it means health care provided by the state with no charge to it's users."

Thank you for explaining, I appreciate it.

In the UK, we have the National Health Service ("the NHS"). It is pretty much free at the point of delivery, a few things around the edges are charged for. For example, you pay for eye tests, and prescription charges, although the charge for a prescription is the same no matter how much the drug or whatever costs (about £7.50, at the moment). And you don't pay for eye tests or prescriptions if you are under 18, on benefits, pregnant, or over 60.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Joe,

Either you just don't care what has been stated because you have your own agenda, or you are not intelligent enough to understand the written word. I am not sure which. Perhaps, you just enjoy getting people off topic.

You do have a Socialized medicine to some degree in California. I Know because I lived there for about 7 years. That is not what this page is about. If you want to talk about health care, start your own hub page. I am sure many will debate it's virtues with you.

And, Please stop twisting what has been said just for the sake of contention. You have been exposed.

The fact remains, Trig Palin is an innocent human being who has comitted no crime. Our Constitution does no give us the right to health care, but it does guarantee our right to LIVE, to have LIBERTY, and to PURSUE HAPPINESS.

The highest court in our land has already taken away the right of some to live. Why? Simply, because they do not have a vote, and the ones that want them dead do.


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

Talford, as this is your article I hope you don't mind my asking this.

Do you think abortion is ever justified?


JoeDoe 8 years ago from Right next door

Prismplay,

In your eyes everyone that does not agree with your line of thought is a liar... so if you want to claim you caught me lying please be my guest... you still have not answered any of the questions I posed to you.

Here is a quote from you, “JoeDoe's comments illustrate what is wrong with human society today. It sees nothing higher than itself. Whatever laws it establishes are viewed as superior to the laws of God, Who chooses not interfere in our moral judgments”

So please tell us what your point is other than to say that God's law should be followed and not man's law. Am I speaking for you again? If you believe this then why don't you come out and just tell us what your point is rather than hiding behind your words?

Do you believe in separation of church and state or not? And if so why do you chose a candidate based on their religious beliefs?

Sorry friend, though you want to believe you are a high and mighty person (and that is why you are so quick in labelling people as liars) you do not hold any more a special relationship with God than I do. Please continue to be the first throwing stones because it only shows how much contempt you have for your fellow man.


JoeDoe 8 years ago from Right next door

Talford,

Very nice style. You start off with a very humble hub yet you resort to showing your ugly side when someone poses questions regarding the hypocrisy behind Sarah Palin. I never once passed a comment about Trigg nor did I question that she is an innocent human being... my comments are directed to the beliefs of Sarah Palin's political party and their contempt for cause of helping innocent children once they are born.

Thank you very much for questioning my intelligence, for I may not be intelligent enough to understand YOUR version of the written word. Then again perhaps there are people on this hub whose low level of intelligence disallow them to understand any other point of view except their own.

As for socialized medicine in California.... I have lived in California for 20+ years and I work in the health care industry so please don't claim to have any special knowledge of California's Medi-cal programs. I apologize for even bringing this up.... how could I be so foolish as to mention health care for poor and disabled children when this hub is solely for the purpose of making Sarah Palin appear as an Angel.

I gues I am guilty of twisting your topic. I agreed with your assessment of Trigg but I used it to point out how Sarah Palin is a hypocrite. I apologize for thinking that perhaps you would have some empathy for people less fortunate than Sarah Palin who are ridiculed for being welfare Moms when all they are guilty of is making the same choice that Sarah Palin made... that being the choice to give birth to a disabled baby.

And finally, as for me being “exposed”... well quite frankly the only thing that has been exposed is the hypocrisy in your beliefs. You are a socialist when it comes to championing the rights of the unborn yet once that baby is born you are right wing conservative who does not believe in providing that baby with the necessities of food and health care.

May God forgive us for all of our wrongs and may God help Barrack Obama to emerge victorious over the deception and lies which are permeating from hypocrites like Sarah Palin.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Ok joe, come on, are you saying you speak for God now?

"Sarah Palin may be your political candidate but she is NOT God's candidate"

Say it ain't so joe!!!


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

The article "Life is Precious - Trig Palin" mentions some manifestations of hatred for the Palin's decision to give birth to Trig. Through internet searches I have found other such expressions. Here is one of them:

http://ruleofreason.blogspot.com/2008/09/palins-do...

Against such "rule of reason" the video at the head of this hubpage stands as a witness. It could be argued that since the video appeals to human emotions, but not to human reason of the "progressive" sort, "progressives" should use any means necessary to prevent the mother of Trig from becoming Vice President, lest she become a role model for those giving birth to children with special needs.

The video does appeal to human reason of the "humble before God" kind. God is love, and there is nothing greater than love. Love was speaking when Jesus taught, "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents, but that the works of God should be manifest in him" (John 9:3).

The "rule of reason" that "progressives" must appeal to always leads to socialism, in which a band of educated, self-appointed elites, try to play God over the rest of us. Against that tendency stands the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution, now under constant assault by "progressives" and others who despise the limits that the Constitution puts on the size and scope of government.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

I looked at that link. I saw nothing on there that made me sway in my beliefs at all. They seem to want to murder anyone that is not like them, which, apparently in their own eyes, are useful to society. Or at least moreso that these specical people. To me, the person who wrote that blog and anyone who feels the same, is a great deal less productive that anyone with Down's. If we want to get down to the bottom line of who has a more postive impact on the lives of those around them, the people with Down's Syndrome would win. I know this because I have worked with Down's Syndrome patients. Those who feel that people with any disabilty needs to be murdered would lose, because they don't add to the productive part of society, they tear it down. Should we murder them since they provide less positive impact on society? I have a feeling they had rather people with Down's Syndrome make that decision rather than me because people with Down's seem to always be loving and caring to everyone around them. They don't judge. They take you as you are and love you anyway. But, if they murder all of those sweet kind of people, that leaves people like me to make the decision if they are worth anything to society. They wouldn't like what I'd say. So, they might want to keep those special people.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

First I have to appologize for not answering the posts more frequently. Primsplay and Allshookup, I have to say, You do a great job of answering. Thanks!

JoeDoe, I see you make the rounds on all the hubs that mention Sara Palin and malign her. I will answer you when I have more time.

London girl,I don't mind you asking. This is where the debate on abortion usually gets side tracked. The question arises what about if the life of the mother is in danger? After that is the question, what about for incest and rape?

In the cases of rape pregnancy, I do understand why someone would not want to carry the baby to term. Still, the child is an innocent victim. She should not have to lose her life because of the horrible crime of her father. If the mother did not want the child, adoption can be a wonderful alternative.

I can tell you, that even if the woman has an abortion, this is not a release from what has happened. Being involved with different ministries throughout the years I have seen the guilt that women have had to deal with after having an abortion.

It is not as simple as it might seem. Aborting a child is not having a wart removed, or cutting your hair. You have to kill a child, and not just any child, but your own child.

On the other hand I have witnessed women who decided after much anguish to keep the child, and the child became a saving grace in their lives. They learned to love again. God can use a child, even one you think you don't want, that way.

 As far as the life of the mother being in danger, the fact of the matter is; with modern medical procedures, and the ability of doctors to care for infants born premature, it is never a one life or the other option. 

Any pregnancy, it can be said, has some danger. That is why the life of the mother argument is used by those whose real agenda is abortion on demand.


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

"As far as the life of the mother being in danger, the fact of the matter is; with modern medical procedures, and the ability of doctors to care for infants born premature, it is never a one life or the other option."

What about an ectopic pregnancy? Having suffered one myself, I know a little about them, and the options are painful (in the extreme, both physically and mentally) and limited.


JoeDoe 8 years ago from Right next door

Allshookup,

Good to see you here. Thank you for proving that people actually do read and think a bit!! You saw my comment about God Blessing Obama and you realized how silly it sounds for an individual to be using God in reference to a political candidate.

The reason why I did this is because of PrismPlay's poetic injustice about Sarah Palin and linking his or her religious views to her in order to make her seem holier than the other candidates. This is what was done with G.W. Bush and I for one don't like people to try and use the name of God to link to their candidate. To make my point I used the same logic to link with Obama and pray to God that he wins.

I am glad you saw just how silly this sounds and I hope people realize that the election is about Politics and political views not about religion.


JoeDoe 8 years ago from Right next door

Talford,

You may claim that I make the rounds against Palin, but that is because I refuse to let her incompetence and her lack of judgement go unquestioned. If people want to praise her then they should also be prepared to listen to people who see her as unqualified and a dishonest person. The same hold true for those who write praise about Biden.

As for your response to Londongirl, you totally ignore her valid question about a Mother who's life is in danger. Londongirl is wrong about ectopic pregnancy because an ectopic preganancy (by its very definition) cannot lead to a child. It is a life threatening problem for the mother and is no way to be considered an abortion because the embryo cannot develop.

Other conditions that can lead to a mother's death due to preganancy include eclampsia (seizures in pregnancy) and abruptio placenta (separation of the placenta from the uterus). These conditions can be managed in most cases but there are always some cases where the treatment does not work and the mother's life is in danger. Would you sacrifice the mother in these cases?


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

talford wrote: "The unscripted love between Piper and Trig was undeniable. I know that millions of people felt joy as they watched that portrait. Could anyone stand up and say this child should not live?"

How warmly human was that moment! It stirred up the same kind of feelings that once inspired Robert Burns to pen these words:

All hail! ye tender feelings dear!

The smile of love, the friendly tear,

The sympathetic glow!

Long since, this world's thorny ways

Had number'd out my weary days,

Had it not been for you!


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

"Londongirl is wrong about ectopic pregnancy because an ectopic preganancy (by its very definition) cannot lead to a child. It is a life threatening problem for the mother and is no way to be considered an abortion because the embryo cannot develop."

I know it's not safe for the mother - sadly, I've been there.

Once in a very blue moon, an ectopic pregnancy does survive and become a viable child. But statistically, it's a negligable feature.


prismsplay profile image

prismsplay 8 years ago from Missouri

On Michelle Malkin's website is a video billed as "your spirit lifter of the day", which covers the Trig factor in Sarah Palin's campaigning.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/16/your-spirit-l...


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

LondonGirl,

I am sorry I have not been able to write much over the past few weeks. Work and family have kept me occupied. I have barely had time to check my e-mail. I wanted to take the time to write a more lengthy answer to your question about ectopic pregnancy.

Ectopic pregnancy would be one of the rare cases when a woman and her doctor would have to make some very hard choices. I am sure that being a woman who has gone through this, you would know better than I, how difficult this can be.

Please keep writing. I will answer when

I can.

Tom


LondonGirl profile image

LondonGirl 8 years ago from London

It's a very difficult decision. And one I wish I had never had to make - when I found out I was pregnant, the possibility never occured to me. Instead, we were thinking about names, who he or she would look like, all the normal stuff that happens when you find out you are expecting!

It also made me very tense when I next got pregnant (with my gorgeous son, who is now 3 years old) because I was worried about it happening again. It was hard to feel any pleasure in the news until I had an early scan and they found the baby, with his heart beating, in the right place.

I don't regret the decision. There was no other real option - it wasn't a question of choosing to have the baby or not, in any real sense, there was no baby, as ectopic pregnancies don't, except in the rarest of cases, result in a baby.

But I do regret being in a position where I had to decide. I still wonder, from time to time, what that baby would have been like now, aged 5, had things been different.


talford profile image

talford 8 years ago from U.S.A. Author

LondonGirl,

I thank you for your openness and honesty. You have a handsome boy. Enjoy him. They grow up fast. I have two boys, 12 and 9. It seems like yesterday that I was rocking them to sleep.

Tom


commonsense 7 years ago

mr. talford...would you please tell us how long now have you been in your "twelve step" program. and would you recommend it to others with similiar needs?


talford profile image

talford 7 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Still trolling commonsense? It must be rough not having a life.


garynew profile image

garynew 6 years ago from Dallas, TX and Sampran, Thailand

obama himself said 'life is precious', too bad he can't act like he actually believes it. excellent hub from a fellow 'shallow Jesus freak'. and does commonsense (there's an oxymoron for you) know that he can joint hubpages for free? and it's fun too!


talford profile image

talford 6 years ago from U.S.A. Author

Garynew, thank you for the compliment. What a lot of people do not know is; the Obama election camp hired people to go on the Internet day and night to denigrate Palin and the right. It was intended to look like a grassroots campaign

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